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[zilpin]

Preparing for flame war in in 4... 3... 2...


"Pick your poison" is the best comment I've seen so far in this thread.

The advice that I'll give is that, if you want to actually finish the game, the language doesn't matter nearly as much as choosing an engine.

Panda 3D is a great option, in that regard.
Cube / Saurebraten are a good base to work from, too.

But if you have no programming exp, first get deep into modding.
Make some serious mods for DF, then make a worthwhile mod and/or campaign for Wesnoth (using WML and Lua), and you'll have an idea of the cliff you're trying to climb.

Definitely do a serious Wesnoth mod/campaign before getting into programming a whole game.

[Lectorog]

Wouldn't that make it a constant? :U

Constant variables as substitutes for frequently-used numbers to enhance readability. Using preprocessor definitions is even better, as the variables won't need to occupy memory that way. I'm not sure what languages support that, though; I've only used C++.

The advice that I'll give is that, if you want to actually finish the game, the language doesn't matter nearly as much as choosing an engine.

If you want to do something yourself, without working off of another person's engine, you'll need to know a programming language well. And each language has its own advantages and disadvantages. If more is going to be done than just using an engine, the language chosen is important; once you've learned one language, learning others is easier, but it's still not a simple thing.

[malloc]

Constant variables as substitutes for frequently-used numbers to enhance readability. Using preprocessor definitions is even better, as the variables won't need to occupy memory that way. I'm not sure what languages support that, though; I've only used C++.

Not really true. Macroed numbers simply get added in by the preprocessor, which means they are exactly the same as just typing in the number.

Code: [Select]

#define number 5

if(something < number)
//is equivalent to
if(something < 5)
Either way, they all get compiled into the compiled program as a numeral, and therefore will occupy a tiny bit of memory. Real constant variables on the other hand will only occupy one memory region.
But honestly, the memory and performance difference even for big applications is so marginal that you should not have to worry about it.

As for the question at hand.
Pick any programming language really. But aim very very low for your first months/years of programming anything. You wont make an mount and blade nor a new DF. Try with a breakout clone first, and then slowly make more advanced applications. Do this to learn how to structure games and engines, so you use this knowledge to do even more advanced things.

In the end it does not matter what language you choose, but how set you are on actually programming the game.

[Doohl]

For what it's worth, I tend to stick with C++ and the SDL or SFML libraries.

[Lectorog]

Constant variables as substitutes for frequently-used numbers to enhance readability. Using preprocessor definitions is even better, as the variables won't need to occupy memory that way. I'm not sure what languages support that, though; I've only used C++.

Not really true. Macroed numbers simply get added in by the preprocessor, which means they are exactly the same as just typing in the number.

Either way, they all get compiled into the compiled program as a numeral, and therefore will occupy a tiny bit of memory. Real constant variables on the other hand will only occupy one memory region.
But honestly, the memory and performance difference even for big applications is so marginal that you should not have to worry about it.

Yeah, I know that. The preprocessor just replaces the defined text with its definition. It makes the code a lot more readable, though. If you need to do it for several things, it may occupy less memory than a variable, but maybe not. I don't know that much about memory consumption, and for a few variables it won't make a difference. I was just saying it's a slight improvement; or, at least, I thought it is.

aim very very low for your first months/years of programming anything. You wont make an mount and blade nor a new DF.

This is true. I may just be a slow learner, and I've not been very active, but I started learning 6 months ago, and I still don't know how to use libraries, and thus have been messing around with the console alone. If you start learning about programming, but you aren't much liking making things without graphics, programming may not be for you. It takes a significant amount of time and dedication to get anywhere.

[Virex]

For designing games, you'll probably want to use UML or something similar. I don't know if there are variants specifically tailored to designing games.

[alway]

Flash/actionscript. I personally hate actionscript, but it's good for making a game with relatively little difficulty. It doesn't do 3D

Like hell it doesn't.
http://people.rit.edu/jja2535/Snowflake/Snowflake.html
http://people.rit.edu/jja2535/Spiderweb/Spiderweb.html
Both of the above I did in Actionscript, as well as simple 3D networked multiplayer space shooter

Spoiler: img (click to show/hide)

However, it's rather difficult compared to 2D games, as it requires Flex stuff set up (tutorial here for those interested and who are good with AS3 already). It's also quite low level, as it is shader-based like DirectX and OpenGL; and the shaders must be written in AGAL, adobe's shader assembly language.

It's still quite new, and I would expect it to get better as it goes; but even now it is pretty viable as a 3D platform. Though for a beginner, any 3D coding is out of the question.

[nenjin]

Obviously the best language to code in is the one you understand.

[Exponent]

Ultimately, language matters less, and skill with computer science concepts that transcend specific languages matters more.  So for picking a first language, I'd recommend focusing on learning curves involved, and less on final utility.  Once you understand programming, picking up a new language isn't too hard.  But even if you're using "the perfect" language, if you don't have a healthy understanding of good software engineering practices, the project is going to become more difficult than it should be.

So I'd straight-up say "no" to C++ as a first language, even though it is possibly my favorite.  It has way too many gotcha's and unintuitive crap going on, and requires significantly more hand-holding and a deeper understanding of what's going on under the hood on part of the programmer.

Scripting languages like Python or Lua tend to be good for learning in some respects; they tend to be much more forgiving and intuitive, and require far less start-up code just to get a simple program running.

More "professional" languages like C# or Java that have very good tools (such as Visual Studio or Eclipse, respectively) with extensive feature sets written around them can be better in other respects, however.  I personally believe that it is absolutely critical to have and become very familiar with a high-quality debugger when learning to program.  It provides an immediate and very concrete view into what the computer is doing.  Without a good debugger, a programmer depends much more heavily on simulating the code in their mind, so to speak, to get an idea for what their code should be doing, and why it seems to be doing something else (which is inevitable).  And this is often a very hard task to do for someone who is just beginning to program.

Because of the debugger concern, my vote would be for C# or Java, because I'm familiar with the main debuggers available for each, and I approve.  If you go for a different language, at least search out information on what debuggers are available, and then be very hesitant if you can't find one that people consider to be a solid debugger.

[Kogut]

Random suggestion: due to ""no prior programming skill"" try to start with making basic programs (like "print 10 prime numbers", "sort an array"). Then - something text-only, maybe roguelike.

[zilpin]

Random suggestion: due to ""no prior programming skill"" try to start with making basic programs (like "print 10 prime numbers", "sort an array"). Then - something text-only, maybe roguelike.

Yes, well, s/he obviously wants to have fun doing this, so while recursive function prime number array writing in Lisp is standart fare for programming classes....   not so fair for forum suggestion on beginning !fun!.

Get thee to a mod! 

¤EPIC MOD¤

So we all demand, lest thine failure so prove thee minion of ....  E ... A ...

There is no electronics arts.  There are only Evil Arses.

[klingon13524]

French.