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Author Topic: Education in DF, think of the children!  (Read 3774 times)

potatato

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Education in DF, think of the children!
« on: March 14, 2012, 08:41:33 pm »

  Okay, this is sorta my first post here and I checked over the forum and couldn't seem to find anything related to education in the search that wasn't like a year old.  So here's my idea, sorry if I sound stupid.

  Every profession has a school to build, if you expand the workshop to hold many dwarves you can make it a school, like say masonry for example, you have a mason's workshop and you want to have a group of kids to become masons.  You can then make the mason's workshop a school of masonry and then the mason you choose to be teacher (probably would have to be really really good at masonry)will gather the kiddies and teach them to like a novice level.

  Now, this isn't my only idea.  Every dwarf should also want to pursue a certain profession or their parent would want them to pursue a profession.  If their child pursues a profession the parent doesn't approve of it would give them unhappy thouhts.  Oh, and if a dwarf is drafted while in school it could probably give them unhappy thoughts i guess.

So yeah, there's my idea...  Don't hurt me.
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Aachen

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 09:04:23 pm »

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potatato

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 09:07:41 pm »

Oh.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 09:11:57 pm »

There is no penalty for thread necromancy in the suggestions forum - if there is a topic from a thread a year old you want to talk about, then go ahead and raise that thread from the dead. 

Especially if it has been a rather large and long-running thread which is up pretty high on the Eternal Suggestions list, simply raising that thread can keep quite a few conversations going, and preclude the need to rehash the same crap that tends to always come up whenever a topic is reraised, so it's actively encouraged to just necro those topics.

Anyway, you might want to try other search terms, as well, as "books", "libraries", "apprentices", "mentors", "schools" etc. etc. are one of those topics that are common to the point that I've grown tired of arguing against the notion that you can learn how to swim or become a better artist/craftsman from reading a book without need for actual practical training.
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bombzero

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 01:30:34 am »

Agreed, you cannot learn physical activities to the same level as someone who is practiced in it from a textbook alone.
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Demicus

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 02:18:21 pm »

I can see gaining some experience for physical skills via books. Certainly not mastery, though maybe enough skill to gain adequate. Maybe. Though it certainly wouldn't train any physical attributes linked to the skills.
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robertheinrich

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 02:24:59 pm »

For the military there are already "teacher" and "student" skills. Why not use these for all jobs somehow? When you look at barracks, teachers give demonstrations (increasing their teacher skill) and students get experience in fighting skills when watching as well as increase their student skill. At least I suppose that´s how it works.

Now if the underlying code is flexible enough and not some convoluted hardcode spaghetti (it better not be, that would be a huge disappointment regarding Toady´s programming skills) you could easily define, for example, a mason´s workshop as a school, create a masonry squad, add a legendary teacher, some kids or peasants, and tell the masonry squad to train there for most of the year. Using the schedule interface you could easily create holidays where the kiddies help with harvesting or just relax to keep them happy. Voila - there you have your dorfs training arbitrary jobs without producing worthless crap from valuable resources on repeat. You could even go so far as to assign them a school dormitory etc.

And yeah, also school uniforms. ;)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 02:29:14 pm by robertheinrich »
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dizzyelk

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 10:18:01 pm »

I do think of the children and like to think I provide them with a good education involving a very important life lesson...

at the end of a +pine training spear+ in my danger room.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 10:19:17 pm »

My children learn all they need to know endlessly picking crops in my fields - that theirs is a life of endless drudgery, and that they'd better get to work!
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GoldenShadow

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2012, 01:59:55 pm »

I think schools would be a fantastic addition to the game and a great place for all those children to congregate to instead of the meeting hall or following their parents around.

Setup a (i) zone and make it a school. It needs chairs. You can only teach as many students as you have chairs. Children have to be assigned to the school under a pupils list, and one teacher has to be assigned. He will teach whatever skill he is best at. Teaching is slow until his teaching skill grows. Its in your interest to look after a master teacher. the student's skill gain is split among all students evenly, so its faster to train one student than to train 20. Children's potential skill advance is limited by their student skill too. You need to balance the number of students per school to make the most of what the teach can offer without diluting it.

You can change a school to a military academy. There, students will be taught military skills instead of civilian ones.
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bombzero

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 03:37:28 pm »

^Nice...

another idea someone else suggested was books/instructions giving theoretical skill, meaning the dwarf now knows how to do something in their head, but has never done it in practice.
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chris_strain

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 12:21:09 am »

I kinda like this idea.. it keeps kids from being quiet as annoying. A way around the whole 'you can't physical craft from a book' thing, which I agree with btw, is if there was a system for the school to be set to take from a stockpile. Then as a student learns, raw materials are consumed from the stockpile, providing real practice ala woodshop in school, and producing no usable results.. also ala most woodshop projects. Would also be another handy way to whittle down the excess stone from a map.
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tsen

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 03:24:50 am »

It would generally make considerably more sense re: 1400s historical period to do apprenticeships (craft skills,)  pages/squires (military skills,) and servants (non-craft skills)

That said, I would be quite pleased by the ability to arrange formal schooling for my dwarves to teach them basic knowledge and literacy!
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Owlbread

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Re: Education in DF, think of the children!
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 12:49:19 pm »

Perhaps teaching and so on is handled by the respective guild associated with the profession e.g. mason's guild members teach children. It could be possible to send certain children to "join the Mason's guild" and so on so they are taught in the ways of stoneworking and become adequate, novice or competent, skilled or proficient masons by the time they leave school when they grow up, depending on how well (and for how long) they were taught. Obviously, if you send an 8 year old off to the Blacksmith's guild to become an apprentice, he will be more highly skilled by the time he leaves school compared with someone who entered the guild at 10, simply because the 8 year old had more training. This would hinge on the personality of the dwarf children of course - they may not like learning, they may be a bit slow or they may not have any natural inclination to the job (try sending a musical, creative child to become a miner), so they may leave school as "adequate" or even "novice" masons when others leave at "competent". That would encourage the player to examine dwarf children more carefully to see where their talents may lie. For the lazy players, maybe the manager could do that for you so it's automated.

Tsen also raises a good point - perhaps the guilds would teach each dwarf child to read and write as part of their training. The dwarf children would gain a small note in their P/Z description saying that they are an apprentice mason or an apprentice miner etc, and also a member of the "miner's guild" or the "mason's guild". Another possibility is that the religions and temples may teach dwarf children to read and write, so their education runs in tandem with the guild and the "church".

I like the idea of sending dwarf children off to the army to become squires too. Similar rules could apply to them, including preferences. Perhaps squires could be assigned to certain warriors so that they could learn certain skills from them. As the religious organisations would teach the children to read and write, the squires will not lose out. This goes a bit deeper than simple training because your legendary spearman may have dabbled in wrestling and more unusual skills like biting, so the squire would gain most (if not all) of these skills, again depending on the teaching skill of the soldier. Imagine the spearman teaching the squire all the dirty tricks he knows, or unusual hand-to-hand combat tactics (as will be implemented soon). It's great how this idea is so easy to build on; you could create an adventurer and develop new wrestling moves, then join the fortress army, get a squire and teach him everything you know.

Another variable you could add to this is whether or not the child likes the teacher. If the child holds a grudge against the teacher, or vice versa, then the child will not learn as much. If the child and the teacher become friends, then the child learns even more, or may at least be less likely to reject their appointment as an apprentice of a profession they dislike. For example, there may be a very musical and artistic child who is assigned to the miner's guild. He rejects this assignment, so he does not learn as much and has unhappy thoughts. However, the friendly teacher means he is more comfortable with learning to be a miner, so his unhappy thoughts are ultimately negated, and he learns more.

Christ, this could get complicated.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 01:25:39 pm by Owlbread »
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