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Author Topic: dwarves see the future!  (Read 5526 times)

MarcAFK

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2012, 08:30:53 am »


I agree with this post. Also, your forum avatar looks like Gir riding a piggy, so that's extra bonus agreement points right there.
You would be right on the mark, that's Filler the rabbit drawn by Jhonen Vasquez of Invader Zim fame.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

Murphy

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2012, 08:46:04 am »

Is it not also a possibility that the exact details of the newer artifact were not determined until you attempted to observe it, and therefore it drew on more recent events for exact decoration?
Schroedinger's artifact. Neat.

My money would be on this, though:
It seems like the Mood is actually triggered earlier than the point when you're notified of it, the game determines it's name and what workshop it needs, if another mood is triggered before the first artifact has actually been made then as far as the game is concerned that artifact exists and is a valid target as decoration.
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nightwhips

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2012, 10:08:37 am »

So we seem to confirm that artifacts are ordained in fate and the dwarves are nothing more than vessels through which the dwarven genetic moods take hold.

Does this imply a set number of artifacts?  If you embark enough, and fulfill enough moods, will they stop?

Interesting. I was thinking it could be generated at each embark, as opposed to "For the whole world". Is there any reason to expect one of these to be true and not the other? Clearly there are lots of lists (curses, titans, etc) that are given at wolrdgen. Are there other lists that are given at embark?

ALSO, what the fuck IF Toady had made artifacts quantum, such that their appearance wasn't fixed until you looked that them?? AMG that would break my mind.
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: Miner dwarves? In my volcano?

:I put childs into danger room...
They die, and their parents care nothing because legendary dining room.

ASCIt

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2012, 10:25:22 am »

*Young Keanu Reeves*

What if time is really running backwards, but the dwarves are living in the past?
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This is a very dorfy thread, and you WILL read it.

Sutremaine

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2012, 10:46:17 am »

I mean he was building it, how can he know how it will end up looking when finished in order to engrave the image? paradox?  :o
Maybe he just leaves a blank section of stone on the throne so he has a space for the engraving once he's constructed it and knows what it looks like.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Girlinhat

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2012, 10:59:56 am »

Simple: It's an icon.  An icon can be a simplified version of the depicted subject.  For instance, a house can have an icon of a square with a triangle on top.  So he basically made a small image of a generic throne, and then claimed that it was represented the artifact.

Raphite1

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2012, 12:09:13 pm »

My money would be on this, though:
It seems like the Mood is actually triggered earlier than the point when you're notified of it, the game determines it's name and what workshop it needs, if another mood is triggered before the first artifact has actually been made then as far as the game is concerned that artifact exists and is a valid target as decoration.

But this still wouldn't explain how the first-created artifact can reflect the material for the second-created artifact [edit: since material can be controlled by forbidding, etc], unless the observation effect described above is also at play.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 01:55:58 pm by Raphite1 »
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kaijyuu

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2012, 12:22:42 pm »

Quantum artifact entanglement, maybe?

Once you observe one artifact, the other is determined.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

MrAnderson

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2012, 05:33:50 pm »

i've put it onto the bug tracker
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Girlinhat

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2012, 05:37:26 pm »

Spoilsport.

Di

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Re: dwarves see the future!
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2012, 05:31:02 pm »

Here's more of confirming images:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As can be seen the one of the earlier artifacts (second one to be correct) have an image of the spear crated two years later. Sadly, the earlier copy of this very fortress was abandoned to see legends, but I assure you I've been checking every made artifact and at the moment of creation it was simple stupid wooden earring of the highest quality and spikes of limonite. So images showed up later. And while I don't recall the amount of materials wasted on it I guess the amount of 'prophesies' on artifact is determined by the amount of materials that were collected but didn't show up originally.
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Quote from: Creamcorn
Dwarf Fortress: Where you meet the limit of your imagination, moral compass, sanity and CPU processor.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103080.0 Fix sober vampires!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91442.0 Dwarven Cognitive Science
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