I used the search function and found some other threads on the same subject, and they're kind of sort of similar, but they don't quite cover what I had in mind.
The idea is to treat cavern people less like groups of creatures and more like miniature civilizations. Instead of civilizations, cavern people would be split into tribes. Not all cavern people of a certain type would be in the same tribe. More territorial/militaristic tribes would tend towards smaller tribes, although random gen can result in abnormally large or small tribes. So, for example, plump helmet men, being so vulnerable to the threats of cavern creatures and other cavern people, would naturally form larger groups. After all, their best chance of survival is through sheer numbers to overwhelm threats. In addition, since plump helmet men are presumably either herbivores or live off of soil, their tribe can support larger numbers in general. In contrast, badger men or tiger men would be prone to a number of smaller groups, both due to their aggressive nature and the fact that it's more difficult for them to obtain food, making their survival more a matter of competition than cooperation.
To interact with tribes, you would need to send a diplomat to them. Higher social skills means more success. Interactions can range from trading with them, to subjugating them and forcing them to give you regular tribute, to agreeing to support one another in times of danger. The aggressiveness of tribes would be come up again here. Larger, more cooperative cavern people, like the plump helmet men mentioned above, would be easier to work with. In addition, since they generally have more members, they would have more trade and tribute available. On the other hand, their soldiers would be largely ineffective at helping you and a smaller proportion would be offered. If things go wrong, their numbers mean you could find yourself constantly under attack by large, Elf-style ambushes, or even sieges complete with giant cave creatures. Aggressive creatures would be harder to work with and might require plenty of useless stone shit gifts, but in contrast, would be more effective in combat on an individual level, able to give a larger proportion of their population to help in war, and if things go wrong, a single tribe is generally small enough that it doesn't pose a huge threat.
Tribes would be affected by in-built preferences. Some of these are random. You might end up with a tribe that worships kittens, making catsplosion-avoidance an affront to their gods. Some are more obvious. Badger men would not appreciate the consistent killing of badgers. Plump helmet men might get peeved if your main food source is plump helmets. Not all of them are the equivalent to killing trees for Elves. Some might just lead to them charging you slightly more in trades or not sending as many soldiers to help you. Some could lead to instant holy war until all Dwarves are scoured from the earth. You really just have to hope you get lucky.
Trade would also have in-built preferences. As a rule, tribes would not be interested in a +microcline statue+ or a masterwork hatch cover, and might not be willing to buy them at all. Their interests would be part random, part logical, and more restricted than for other races. In particular, tribes would generally be predisposed to wanting technology they don't have access to, like metal weapons and armor, which they might be willing to take at very inflated prices. If they fight for you, this would make them more effective. Unfortunately, this means if they turn against you, they would be able to use the very equipment you sold them to murder you.
Tribes would not automatically help you to the best of their ability. They would not be under your command like Dwarves are. You can request tribute, but you can't order them to collect specific resources or create specific items. You can request military aid for x number of seasons, but they might only send one or two soldiers, or only help for a very brief period of time. These soldiers would also not be controllable, but attack any creatures tagged Hostile they can pathfind to, potentially leading to undisciplined tribesmen suicide rushing a goblin siege while your military hangs back. How much they help is determined by a combination of how much they like/fear/are paid off by/worship you. Tribes that you give gifts, that you help in battle, and that you respect the preferences will tend to be more helpful. Giving them things like advanced weapons and armor would not only make them more effective at helping you in battle, but would cause them to send more soldiers to help you because of your generosity. Again, at the same time, you would face a stronger enemy if they ever turned against you.
Things get more complicated, thank god. When you factor in intratribal relationships, things get much more fun/!!FUN!!. Not all cavern people get along. Not all tribes within a cavern people get along. You know how you allied those badger men in hopes they'd help you in battle? See, it turns out they had a thing for raiding this large tribe of plump helmet men. Now you have to deal with about 80 of them in your poorly-protected caverns, right about when a Goblin siege also happened to strike. Allying one large group of tiger men may turn 3 others against you. Then you also have to factor in long-term consequences of your actions on these intratribal relationships.
Let's say tiger men and plump helmet men dislike each other, right? You're allied with all nearby tiger men tribes. You start genociding plump helmet men. The tiger men might become a tiny bit more wary, but they hate plump helmet men a lot, so they're really not too concerned. At some point afterwards, you accidentally offend some of the tiger men, turning a portion of the tribes against you and making the rest less willing to help you. Instead of desperately trying to make amends, you decide to just attempt to slaughter all of the opposing tiger men tribes. Since you are now murdering their own kind in large numbers, the last of the allied tiger man tribes now turn hostile towards you, and they all unite to kill you. Now instead of just having to deal with regular plump helmet man attacks originating from across the map, you now have to deal with constant tiger man attacks - the same ones you gave iron weapons and armor to help you fight against enemies more effectively. If things get bad enough, the tiger men tribes and plump helmet men tribes might put aside their longstanding feud and attack you together, until you use metal weapons and armor to pay them off into no longer hating you. Shortly thereafter you piss them off again, but they are even more heavily armed and armored this time. They catch you by surprise while your military is off killing a bronze colossus. Massive quantities of !!FUN!! ensue.
This would make interacting with cave people more interesting, more rewarding, but also more risky. While cave people may generally be weaker than goblins on, generally entrances to caverns are much less fortified than entrances to the outside. They would be weaker, but more able to strike at civilians, especially during ambushes. It would create more enemies, but not in the sense of something like the Fortress Defense Mod. Instead of just being stronger variants of a siege with different weaknesses/strengths, it would be a genuinely unique experience. It wouldn't be hordes of enemies for the sake of seeing how strong of a military you can make, and you wouldn't even necessarily fight tribes them much if you were careful about respecting them. Instead, it would be a completely different experience from many other elements in Dwarf Fortress, allowing you to pick how you deal with tribes. It would give you the ability to turn a war into an alliance, an enemy into a slave, or, if you're not careful, a precarious diplomatic situation into an outburst of badger men rampaging through your mines and killing civilians while your military rushes to save the day in time.
It also just makes for more creative and fun situations. You could basically end up worshiped as gods by all the tribes on your map, sacrificing at least one of them every season in a magma pit. You might also play the role of a cruel taskmaster with superior technology a la Stargate until things blow up in your face, just for fun. You might make it your goal to become a creator of (under)World Peace, uniting every tribe in alliance at any cost. Or you might just try to slaughter every non-Dwarf in the caverns to the best of your ability. You could attempt to have a mostly non-military upper caste of Dwarves with only handful of elite warriors, with the brunt of the army formed by tribal levies. These ideas are just scratching the surface. It really allows a lot of flexibility.
This post is always welcome to constructive criticism or even just shouting at me telling me I'm an idiot, although I'll ignore the second one. I don't actually think ToadyOne will implement this, and if he does it would be a long way off, but I think it's an interesting idea. Maybe a mod will pick it up if nothing else.
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Topic: Expanded Creaturemen Interactions (Read 1177 times)