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[Farmerbob]

I somehow doubt that God allows all the pain, suffering, strife and even the eternal damnation of billions of humans just to make humanity more well-rounded people by allowing them to experience tragedy.

That's pretty poor parenting by most standards.

Humanity is extremely imperfect, but it does seem strange to create us that way then shun us for that very attribute.

Why do you doubt this?  Do you believe you can think like a omniscient and omnipotent being?  I've never tried to raise a RACE, so I'm not sure of the best way to do that, but I'd guess than an omniscient god should nkow.

As far as shunning goes, according to most of the Abrahamic religions, their god never shuns humans, only humans shun their god.

[Shade-o]

It's frankly amazing how often that god gets shunned. You'd think people would at least acknowledge it after all the first few smitings, but noooo. Apparently civilisation-ending events caused directly by a deity never get noticed. Though it is possible that there were no survivors to tell the tale... hmm...

[Farmerbob]

That's fine and all, but what makes it any more than speculation?

Heh, either believing or disbelieving in omniscient, omnipotent deities is speculation without proof.  If the supposed god chooses to make themself known, then the believer can be proven right.  The Atheist can never be proven right.

The Agnostic IS right, because they know we cannot really know at this time.

[Max White]

Well yea, it is well known that you can't prove a negitive.

[Shade-o]

Are you implying that no god ever never made itself known?

Because that means that all divine scriptures and messages are null.

[Max White]

I am implying that it is a well known fact that you can not prove a negitive.

[Shade-o]

No, I meant the guy right above you, the one who was implying that no god has ever made itself known.

[Farmerbob]

Are you implying that no god ever never made itself known?

Because that means that all divine scriptures and messages are null.

If the Abrahamic god ever actually was as active in the world as the religious literature indicates, he certainly isn't any longer.  At least not in a way we can detect.

[Shade-o]

So did a god make itself known or not?

[Max White]

So did a god make itself known or not?

Your so totaly fishing for a 'no, he nevr made himself known!'
I can smell that you have an argument lined up and ready, and you want nothing more then to use it, so I feel I must break my more neutural stance and say no, god has never made any presense known post creation.

Go on, you know you want to.

[Shade-o]

Hey man, you don't know me.

[Max White]

Does anybody realy know anybody?

[Shade-o]

OH NO NOT AGAIN

[Max White]

 

[Siquo]

That's fine and all, but what makes it any more than speculation?

Nothing. It is merely speculation, but it's also a way to show that there is nothing but speculation in that area, as it is unknowable. So any "logic" on free will, God's motivations, or his omnipotence/presence/science outside our universe is mere speculation and can no way determine whether God is "good" or "evil", or if he really is who other people say he is (there's many versions of God even within Christianity).