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[fqllve]

Egotism then.  Why else would you think worshipping is required?  To elevate yourself above those that do not worship via ritual... to prove that you are somehow "better" because you hold yourself to some standard?

Because religion doesn't work if people don't devote themselves to it. It isn't about being "better" than non-worshipers, although it can lead to those feelings. Worship is mostly about control, worship is how you become part of the religious community. Worship is the core of the religion, it's what allows a religion to establish itself as a community, it's what induces people to follow its rules.

[optimumtact]

Egotism then.  Why else would you think worshipping is required?  To elevate yourself above those that do not worship via ritual... to prove that you are somehow "better" because you hold yourself to some standard?

Because religion doesn't work if people don't devote themselves to it. It isn't about being "better" than non-worshipers, although it can lead to those feelings. Worship is mostly about control, worship is how you become part of the religious community. Worship is the core of the religion, it's what allows a religion to establish itself as a community, it's what induces people to follow its rules.

I always thought that religion was so popular in the middle ages as it could be used as a form of control to maintain civil peace and the rule of Law.

It was one of the buttresses of Royal Rule that it was mandated by the Divine and therefore the Monarch was the highest authority in the land below the God.

[Max White]

Egotism then.  Why else would you think worshipping is required?  To elevate yourself above those that do not worship via ritual... to prove that you are somehow "better" because you hold yourself to some standard?

Well that was some what of a leap in logic, and not what I was going for at all. In some religens, cemermonial dance is required, and ta da! They just learnt about coordernation and developed stronger bodys for it. I know some eastern religions give young boys large daggers when they reach a certain age. Knife saftey anybody? You know those christan chior boys? Not only did they learn self disiplin from practicing singing in a very orderly and cerominal fashion, but they picked up musical talent aswell.

Almost every religion ever has all sorts of practices, and they are most oftern the type that develop long term skills.

[G-Flex]

There's a point to what Max White is saying: Most kinds of traditional/ritualistic behavior that develop over time do so because they have practical value to the people/societies who practice them, and their folklore/religion often serves as a sort of framework around it.

[eerr]

Martigras, passover, and anti-pork policies all have roots in this.

Food-wise.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah, evolution of religious practises is always interesting.  For instance, headscarves would've been pretty useful out in the desert...

[Andir]

Sure, but if we use the logic that the body is merely a vessel and your god really doesn't care if it's involved in some horrific house fire...

Rituals to improve body strength, keep sand out of the eyes (cooling, whatever), practice knife safety, and protect ones body from sickness in eating unprepared pork... mean nothing except to the community and your self image.  Therein lies my correlation.  To improve your image in the community you followed the customs of the religion and (in essence) you only really do it to improve your body image.  (If your god only cares about your soul ...)

Edit:  Also, if your god does care about your body, then why doesn't he care just as much about the fly you smashed?  I think it's rather egotistical to think that your god only cares about human bodies and not the bodies of planets, trees, rocks, flies...

Edit2: Sorry, formatting for flow...

[G-Flex]

He cares about your body and not the body of a fly for the same reason that I care about my computer case but not an empty one on the side of the road. The reason God cares about your body is that how you take care of your body affects how well you can take care of yourself in all ways, and also affects others.


(I'm not actually religious, but I figure I can at least try to give what would amount to a fairly Abrahamic perspective on this)

[Siquo]

Also, it's a gift, and your responsibility to take good care of it. It's more like the car that your father gave you.

[Phmcw]

And there we go again with the superior god with totally human reaction.
"Oh I gave you a body, so I expect you to take good care of it because it's a gift". We don't give a fuck when a dwarf loose an arm, usually, or can be supremely annoyed in other case. Why do you expect the act of this supreme being to be more understandable.

Maybe hitler was his idea of a good laugh. Maybe he doesn't exist. Maybe there is a race of invisible space dragoon in your backyard, maybe you're the choose one that is going to free us of the matrix and morpheus is looking for you.
All that is pointless speculation. As far as I am concerned, all that is literally nonsense. We'll have a better idea (or no idea at all) when we die. Until then, I'll work with the things I can observe, and not masturbate intellectually (or would you rather say find solace?) with the idea of a super parent in space.

[Shambling Zombie]

*cough*

Well, this is a discussion about religious and non-religious stuff, so speculation is kind of part and parcel of it. Understanding various beliefs and why people believe them is always interesting to me.

While remaining a non-theist, I personally find a sort of non-interventionist Ahura Mazda and Angra something (something that sounds like "man") to be appealing, although no more likely than anything else. That's just me though.

[Max White]

Sure, but if we use the logic that the body is merely a vessel and your god really doesn't care if it's involved in some horrific house fire...

Rituals to improve body strength, keep sand out of the eyes (cooling, whatever), practice knife safety, and protect ones body from sickness in eating unprepared pork... mean nothing except to the community and your self image.  Therein lies my correlation.  To improve your image in the community you followed the customs of the religion and (in essence) you only really do it to improve your body image.  (If your god only cares about your soul ...)

Edit:  Also, if your god does care about your body, then why doesn't he care just as much about the fly you smashed?  I think it's rather egotistical to think that your god only cares about human bodies and not the bodies of planets, trees, rocks, flies...

Edit2: Sorry, formatting for flow...

Ignoring the debate over the existance of a soul.
Everything your soul knows, it has seen, heard and felt through your body. In that way, your body defines your soul more then your soul defines your body. Therefor, suffering of the body is suffering of the soul.

If every day you get flogged into sumbission, your going to go into depression, or develop some other mental problem.

If abuse of the body is abuse of the soul, then taking care of your body is taking care of you soul.

[Andir]

He cares about your body and not the body of a fly for the same reason that I care about my computer case but not an empty one on the side of the road. The reason God cares about your body is that how you take care of your body affects how well you can take care of yourself in all ways, and also affects others.


(I'm not actually religious, but I figure I can at least try to give what would amount to a fairly Abrahamic perspective on this)

So a fly is an empty shell?  There's no soul?  That was my point.  And it was touched on before.  The amount of anthropomorphizing (or should I say the hubris in thinking that your god only cares about humans) is crazy.  Maybe this god created flies knowing full well that most people would drive their cars into them or be annoyed and slap them out of the sky and only those people who respected this construct of his will attain heavenly rewards upon passing.

So Max, how do you know your god doesn't expect you to respect the fly?

This is why I find more solace in thinking that we are systematic automatons with no souls, but systems so complex we have not mapped behavioral outcomes yet.

[Max White]

My god?
I'm agnostic remember. I don't realy have a god myself, I debate on a theorietical point of veiw with the understanding that I don't know what god is or is like or even if he/she/it existis, but within certain parameters my arguments are very reasonable.


Well, that is a lie, I do beleive 100% in a god. Although that is going by my definition of god, not the vast majority of people. I define god as 'the collective will and morals of everybody within a specific church', therefor if your going to define god after something that exists, it's hard to say it dosn't exist.

[G-Flex]

He cares about your body and not the body of a fly for the same reason that I care about my computer case but not an empty one on the side of the road. The reason God cares about your body is that how you take care of your body affects how well you can take care of yourself in all ways, and also affects others.


(I'm not actually religious, but I figure I can at least try to give what would amount to a fairly Abrahamic perspective on this)

So a fly is an empty shell?  There's no soul?  That was my point.

According to Abrahamic religions, yeah, there's not. I'm not saying I agree, or anything like that.