Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Leafsnail]

I don't think brain damage really debunks any idea of the soul if it's irreversible.  I mean, you could say it's just a breakdown of communication between the soul and body.

Drugs, on the other hand... which can often be felt altering your sense of self and the decisions you made, and then have their affects wear off afterwards, are a much stronger bit of evidence that the soul isn't completely extraphysical, I'd say.  At the very least, it has to be affected by stuff going on in your body.

[Phmcw]

Yes, but there is the whole
"Provided that there is a soul as defined in most Abrahamic traditions, the soul is the core.  Your soul receives input from the body, and the body is the tool of the soul.  This is why it is important to try to keep the body in good condition, if possible.  The brain is provably active when we do anything with the body, so if there is anything which is facilitating the soul in communicating with the body, it would almost inarguably be the brain.  In this scenario, brain damage may prevent the soul from perceiving (accurately) what is happening in the body, and/or may scramble the data passing from from the soul to the body.".
Failure to communicate wouldn't lead to this. Memory loss, yes. Deep changes in personality no.

[Siquo]

The soul is not the mind. It's not your personality, or your character.

As to what it is, definitions vary wildly. Again, that doesn't help anyone who wants to "debunk" souls

[Sergius]

@Zombie: We tend to have our moments 

Insects aren't anything like humans. We have brainpower and comprehension untold times that of an insect, and with that a similarly increased capacity for suffering.

Which is exactly what an insect would say about bacteria. The argument that we still don't pull out their legs is a better one though, but the whole "soul" thing counters that.

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

RE: Souls. I like the definition of Souls from Buffy the Vampire Slayer: people are people (or demons), souls are just some thing inside them that you can trade for if you're a vampire, or something And if you lose it... you can just get another, for cheap. Just find a gypsy.

But yes, we can still be benevolent towards bugs, even if they're bugs. We can't be mean to them and then claim we're benevolent.

[Andir]

The soul is not the mind. It's not your personality, or your character.

As to what it is, definitions vary wildly. Again, that doesn't help anyone who wants to "debunk" souls

But some people would a house fire that, if horrifying enough, can alter ones very personality.  It can make you depressed, afraid, alone, and several other personality altering effects.  Claiming that a god doesn't really care what your body goes through is basically stating that this god doesn't care that there's garbage going in, only the garbage coming out.

[Siquo]

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

Yeah and insects can fly. Talking doesn't make you special.

Claiming that a god doesn't really care what your body goes through is basically stating that this god doesn't care that there's garbage going in, only the garbage coming out.

Your mind and body are nothing, they are the blink of an eye in the view of an eternal soul. The importance we give to this mind and body and life is way out of proportion (if you believe in eternal souls, that is ).

[Sergius]

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

Yeah and insects can fly. Talking doesn't make you special.

Talking about which species is more special than another. Since insects can't do that, they can't compare themselves with bacteria.

Can insects "fly" a discussion that they're different than bacteria? No they can't.

[Willfor]

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

Yeah and insects can fly. Talking doesn't make you special.

Talking about which species is more special than another. Since insects can't do that, they can't compare themselves with bacteria.

Can insects "fly" a discussion that they're different than bacteria? No they can't.

Or can they? 

[Sergius]

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

Yeah and insects can fly. Talking doesn't make you special.

Talking about which species is more special than another. Since insects can't do that, they can't compare themselves with bacteria.

Can insects "fly" a discussion that they're different than bacteria? No they can't.

Or can they? 

Touche, my friend.

Another interesting question: can we make insects worship us as gods? 

[Nilocy]

Actually, you accidentally brought up an interesting point: humans versus insects is nothing like insects versus bacteria. Case in point? We can say things about them.

Yeah and insects can fly. Talking doesn't make you special.

Talking about which species is more special than another. Since insects can't do that, they can't compare themselves with bacteria.

Can insects "fly" a discussion that they're different than bacteria? No they can't.

Or can they? 

Touche, my friend.

Another interesting question: can we make insects worship us as gods? 

Give them free will and don't tell them about it. And just say it was all part of our plan.

[Siquo]

Another interesting question: can we make insects worship us as gods? 

Worship is a human invention. I don't believe God is interested in it.
Maybe insects already worship us, in their own insecty ways.

Although if I'd have my say, mosquitoes can quit that whole drinking the blood of the gods ceremony.

[Shambling Zombie]

Worship is a human invention. I don't believe God is interested in it.

I'd agree with that, since even if the most popular religion is 'correct', five to six billion people are not worshipping correctly. I would imagine a god would have a far greater success rate than one in seven, or so.

If you count all kinds of worship as 'correct' though, it makes it a much more robust number. Doesn't answer the question of why a deity needs pathetically weak beings to worship Him though.

[Max White]

If you count all kinds of worship as 'correct' though, it makes it a much more robust number. Doesn't answer the question of why a deity needs pathetically weak beings to worship Him though.

One could argue it is not for the god, but for the human.

[Andir]

If you count all kinds of worship as 'correct' though, it makes it a much more robust number. Doesn't answer the question of why a deity needs pathetically weak beings to worship Him though.

One could argue it is not for the god, but for the human.

Egotism then.  Why else would you think worshipping is required?  To elevate yourself above those that do not worship via ritual... to prove that you are somehow "better" because you hold yourself to some standard?

[Willfor]

I don't know about anyone else, but I do it for fun. Why am I better than everyone else for doing it? And if it isn't heartfelt, why should I bother?