Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[fqllve]

It's a thread titled atheism, any mention of the soul is begging for a "no such thing" response.

[ECrownofFire]

Ignoring the debate over the existance of a soul.
Everything your soul knows, it has seen, heard and felt through your body. In that way, your body defines your soul more then your soul defines your body. Therefor, suffering of the body is suffering of the soul.

Another interesting point is with brain damage. If the soul is the True You and the body merely a vessel, why can brain damage cause major changes in personality, morality, worldview and sometimes complete memory loss?

Hello, I'm the reincarnation believer here (at least, the only one I know of that visits this thread).

Yeah, I'd say that your soul would be something more like... a conscience? At least, while you're "alive". Your consciousness is your self as you appear on this planet, but your soul is who YOU are. So I would say that brain damage damages how you communicate with your body. So your soul "advises" your brain, and your brain controls your body. But your consciousness is in your brain/body, not your soul. But you still "are" your soul. It's the difference between being something (a soul), and experiencing life as something else (a body).

Ooh, perfect opportunity to use a quote from C.S. Lewis (a Christian, actually). “You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.” I really like this quote, and it came from a Christian, of all people.

[Max White]

and it came from a Christian

So did the big band aparently. They give us more cool stuff then you might expect. I think it is just the more extreme ones that dispute evolution and say the earth in 6,000 years old are more vocal then the rest, so give them all a bad name.

[Shambling Zombie]

We're avoiding debate about religious issues in this thread? 

[ECrownofFire]

and it came from a Christian

So did the big band aparently. They give us more cool stuff then you might expect. I think it is just the more extreme ones that dispute evolution and say the earth in 6,000 years old are more vocal then the rest, so give them all a bad name.

Yeah, I know that a lot of good things have come from Christians, but it's more about it being a spiritual quote that I can agree with. Especially because I have very different views than most Christians.

[Farmerbob]

Ignoring the debate over the existance of a soul.
Everything your soul knows, it has seen, heard and felt through your body. In that way, your body defines your soul more then your soul defines your body. Therefor, suffering of the body is suffering of the soul.

Another interesting point is with brain damage. If the soul is the True You and the body merely a vessel, why can brain damage cause major changes in personality, morality, worldview and sometimes complete memory loss?

Provided that there is a soul as defined in most Abrahamic traditions, the soul is the core.  Your soul receives input from the body, and the body is the tool of the soul.  This is why it is important to try to keep the body in good condition, if possible.  The brain is provably active when we do anything with the body, so if there is anything which is facilitating the soul in communicating with the body, it would almost inarguably be the brain.  In this scenario, brain damage may prevent the soul from perceiving (accurately) what is happening in the body, and/or may scramble the data passing from from the soul to the body.

[Farmerbob]

I've never heard of the "God loves you but doesn't care about your mortal suffering" theory before, but it does fit more with how the world is, I guess. That sort of a deity -would- allow the aforementioned fire, so the fire happening isn't evidence against Him.

It's not that drastic.  Ask any Abrahamic priest which is more important, body or soul.  Ask them why and you will get a thousand answers, but the gist of it is that the soul is just a rider in the body.  The condition of the body CAN affect the development of the soul, but it cannot destroy it.  So there would need to be concern about the body to some degree, but if the meat body is damaged or destroyed it's unimportant provided that the soul is properly tended.

Please stop making generalizations. I realise you are trying to help, but you're trying to say that everyone holds the same opinion of a subject that is often a doctrinal division. Watchman Nee even divides us up into three portions, Spirit, Soul and Body with the soul simply being a wrapper layer for compatibility between the physical and metaphysical domains. Christians of the more Rationalist variety will tell you that the body is the only concern we should have, and that the soul is what the bible was trying to refer to our brain as. Those are two different sides on ONE of the aspects of the Abrahamic religions, and they are by no means the only divisions on this subject.

Please stop trying to insist that we must cover each and every single possibility in each and every statement we make.

You cannot meaningfully consider every belief structure when making comments about belief structures.

[fqllve]

We're avoiding debate about religious issues in this thread? 

Well, it can only lead back into "alright, well then define 'soul.'" And we just came out of that jungle.

But if religious debate isn't about frothing at the mouth over fine distinctions of definition then I dunno what it is about.

[Max White]

Well, it can only lead back into "alright, well then define 'soul.'"

The bottem of your shoe.
Oh, and also the intangable collective for all the good and bad things you have done over your life.
No, forget that, just the shoe.

[fqllve]

I actually like CS Lewis' from Crown's quote. "You are a soul." Succinct, and a very good base.

Although, my personal definition of soul is the quality of emotiveness in music.

[Max White]

Although, my personal definition of soul is the quality of emotiveness in music.

I like the tangent that implys. Although is it simply music, or art?

[Shambling Zombie]

I like that I asked a question about religious stuff, and got multiple though-provoking answers that were all quite lucid and civil.

Doesn't happen too much on religious debates. I like these forums. 

[Siquo]

@Zombie: We tend to have our moments 

Insects aren't anything like humans. We have brainpower and comprehension untold times that of an insect, and with that a similarly increased capacity for suffering.

Which is exactly what an insect would say about bacteria. The argument that we still don't pull out their legs is a better one though, but the whole "soul" thing counters that.

Yes, even if the body suffers, the soul suffers, but maybe it's necessary suffering. I give my child inoculations as well. And that's what a lifetime of suffering is, compared to the infinity of the soul: a mere pinprick. Apart from that, I still think that "benevolence" and "good" are subjective terms, and therefore not applicable to an absolute being. God is benevolent in his own right, by definition, but what that actually means in practical terms... I have no idea. Perhaps we get "time out", a few years of total freedom from God before he takes us up into the fold again, and that temporary freedom is called "life". If we had memory of where we come from, we'd have no total freedom, so that makes sense. It's just another explanation for the inexplicable.

@Leafsnail: I have no knowledge. I had an experience that led me to believe. I'm not saying you should believe what I believe. Relax

[Max White]

I like that I asked a question about religious stuff, and got multiple though-provoking answers that were all quite lucid and civil.

Doesn't happen too much on religious debates. I like these forums. 

Well that was one good question, combined with the fact that most of the people on the forums are good people, it it possible!
I'm not a good person though, I'm hoping for a position in politics, so I can;t afford to be a good person. 

[Phmcw]

Meh, souls have been debunked as well : brain damage (by illness or trauma) can modify completely your very personality.