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[Siquo]

Is it really hubris to hear about a family dying in a house fire, then hear people talking of an omnipotent, benevolent diety and think "That doesn't make sense."?

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

Actually Siquo is the only non strong atheist whose belief make sense to me. He's not sure about the existence of a god, but he isn't sure of anything else either (at least theoretically).
Anything else would be illogical.

Oh, I'm a deist, not an atheist. I believe there is a God (through experience, so I've got EVIDENCE), but am completely unsure as to his nature. Or of the nature of anything, including my experience. But you need some sense of reality to survive in this reality, I guess.

Uncomfortable thoughts, like [he doesn't exist/he wants me to kill babies/he doesn't want me eating pigs], would make the god unlike you and therefore less believable.  I mean, it's easier to say God did something that happened than to say he will do something miraculous in the future and have it happen.  In that way, I'd say religion lives in the past events rather than being a way to live your future.

We all believe in the Gods that we want to believe in, is what you're saying Partly true, as far as excuses go, but there's scripture and knowledge and prophets on how to be a better person, a person you aren't yet. It's also about spiritual growth, about What Would Jesus Do, on how to grow beyond your own pettiness and become a better person. That's future, too.

[Shambling Zombie]

Is it really hubris to hear about a family dying in a house fire, then hear people talking of an omnipotent, benevolent diety and think "That doesn't make sense."?

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

Fair enough. Although I would still have difficulty applying "benevolent" to a being which allows burning someone alive. Just because a bug is tiny and unintelligent by comparison to a human, doesn't make pulling its legs off slowly an ok thing to do, at least in my mind.

Wouldn't WWJD be just as hubristic though, to think that anyone could know what a divine being wants them to do or be?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Is it really hubris to hear about a family dying in a house fire, then hear people talking of an omnipotent, benevolent diety and think "That doesn't make sense."?

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

Insects aren't anything like humans. We have brainpower and comprehension untold times that of an insect, and with that a similarly increased capacity for suffering.

[G-Flex]

Is it really hubris to hear about a family dying in a house fire, then hear people talking of an omnipotent, benevolent diety and think "That doesn't make sense."?

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

I would agree, if it weren't for the fact that we're talking about benevolence, which is an entirely human concept, and about a god that is generally described in very human terms to begin with. If God is really unknowable, why give him such human qualities?

[Leafsnail]

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

Oh, I'm a deist, not an atheist. I believe there is a God (through experience, so I've got EVIDENCE), but am completely unsure as to his nature. Or of the nature of anything, including my experience. But you need some sense of reality to survive in this reality, I guess.

So uh... it's hubris to try and speculate on the nature of God, but not hubris to think that you and only you have experienced this completely impossible to understand being?

[Shambling Zombie]

Yes, it is. As horrifying as those events seem to you, it is impossible to guess what God thinks of that. I mean, how abhorred are you at the family of insects on the windshield of your car? It's that distance, from you to insect, times infinity. That's how far his thoughts are from yours. So yeah, I think that's hubris. Or egocentric.

Oh, I'm a deist, not an atheist. I believe there is a God (through experience, so I've got EVIDENCE), but am completely unsure as to his nature. Or of the nature of anything, including my experience. But you need some sense of reality to survive in this reality, I guess.

So uh... it's hubris to try and speculate on the nature of God, but not hubris to think that you and only you have experienced this completely impossible to understand being?

Well, Siquo didn't claim to be the only one as such to have such an experience, but I get what you're saying.

[Leafsnail]

I don't see how you can tell whether something was an experience of an impossible to understand being or not unless you're claiming some kind of exclusive knowledge of it.  I mean... wouldn't the interactions that Siquo's idea of God has with the universe be just as complex?

[Oakenshield]

As a mythology geek, I have to insist that both the deity and his realm can be referred to as Hades . Just like with Hel and Hel of Norse mythology. Could have been a staple of European branched Indo-European religions, mayhaps?

I dissent that opinion. The Greek netherworld is quite clearly and overtly divided into two areas. The elysian fields, and tartarus, forming a pleasant/unpleasant dichotomy.

Hel's realm is also divided into locally distinct subcategories. Her castle, the outer plains, and Nastrond. None of them are pleasant. Example: In the generally open, clear area of the plains in question it takes so long to journey '1 day' that your hair turns completely gray and falls out, then your old, before you even get there. Nastrond is quite clearly another location as well, as it is described as being a 'strand' (coastal area), where the seas are venom, whirlpools lead to viper nests, and all sorts of unpleasantries await whomever is distinctly marked for that place.

[G-Flex]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=hades&searchmode=none

oh hi there

Hades
1590s, from Gk. Haides, in Homer the name of the god of the underworld, of unknown origin. The name of the god transferred in later Greek writing to his kingdom.

[CoughDrop]

Can someone tell me their allure to mythology? I have a friend that is quite into the Roman Parthenon along with all the stories and such, but he never seems to be able to come up with a reason as to why. I took two years of Latin and found the mythology aspect quite boring. Yes, I know you're talking about Greek mythology, but what I'm asking would apply to both.

Also, Siquo, what's this personal experience with god? Sorry if you've already pulled it up earlier, but I'm curious.

[Oakenshield]

Don't deliberately try to make me look like a dumb-ass. (yes YOU g-flex).

Hades realm, whatever its general name may be, IS clearly divided into two distinct areas which have locally applied names.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Hades realm, whatever its general name may be, IS clearly divided into two distinct areas which have locally applied names.

It's quite a bit more than two. And that's leaving out three of the rivers.

[fqllve]

Can someone tell me their allure to mythology? I have a friend that is quite into the Roman Parthenon along with all the stories and such, but he never seems to be able to come up with a reason as to why. I took two years of Latin and found the mythology aspect quite boring. Yes, I know you're talking about Greek mythology, but what I'm asking would apply to both.

I think it's the same reasons why fantasy appeals to people. Powerful beings in fantastic locations. Plus, mythology doesn't tend to pull any punches. It can be brutal, sadistic, and cruel. Even characters that we're supposed to sympathize with. You don't see much like that in modern fiction.

And personally, I believe religion is the window into culture, and by that fact inherently interesting.

And that's leaving out three of the rivers.

Including the best one! The Elders Scrolls IV: Lethe

[Bauglir]

WRT* God's benevolent nature; if we are to God as insects on the windshield are to us, God is not benevolent. I am not benevolent toward the insects that impact my windshield, or insects in general (beyond what I understand to be necessary to support the ecosystem, since I live there, but even that wouldn't apply to an omnipotent deity).

*Meaning With Respect To, not White Raven Tactics [/mildly obscure joke]

[G-Flex]

Don't deliberately try to make me look like a dumb-ass. (yes YOU g-flex).

Hades realm, whatever its general name may be, IS clearly divided into two distinct areas which have locally applied names.

I never contradicted that, and I wasn't trying to make you look like a dumbass.

Can someone tell me their allure to mythology? I have a friend that is quite into the Roman Parthenon along with all the stories and such, but he never seems to be able to come up with a reason as to why. I took two years of Latin and found the mythology aspect quite boring. Yes, I know you're talking about Greek mythology, but what I'm asking would apply to both.

Mythology (and religion in general) touches upon basic human themes and represents the values and other sensibilities of a culture. This can be important whether you're interested in history, the human condition, or anything else related to those things.