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Author Topic: Atheism Redux [READ THE FIRST POST]  (Read 187765 times)

Darvi

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2265 on: January 19, 2011, 12:18:36 pm »

All religion overlook that fact and label the will of the god good? Is our will good for the dwarfs when we play?
At least they don't think that whatever's out there wants to see us all dead.
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Siquo

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2266 on: January 19, 2011, 12:53:35 pm »

perfect language that we cannot possibly comprehend

Language is a form of communication.  If it's incomprehensible, it's not a very good language, is it?
Wat een onzin, alsof jij zo snel nederlands leert.

Even plants are known to communicate, through olfactory systems. But they cannot possibly comprehend English.

All religion overlook that fact and label the will of the god good? Is our will good for the dwarfs when we play?
By definition. If you'd worship a God whose will is to kill all humans (but slowly and not by direct intervention), you'd still say that his will is "good".
The dwarves do not worship us. They might as well be atheists ;). Therefore, they might not agree with our ideas of Fun™.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Leafsnail

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2267 on: January 19, 2011, 01:31:51 pm »

That's not stuff. Those are ideas we've come up with that seem to work rather well for certain people.
You can say that, but if you live through every day without starving, dying of thirst or throwing yourself out of windows, you're relying on some form of evidence.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2268 on: January 19, 2011, 03:55:07 pm »

All religion overlook that fact and label the will of the god good? Is our will good for the dwarfs when we play?
At least they don't think that whatever's out there wants to see us all dead.
I've seen Christians who were absolutely estatic at the idea that their god will return and kill everyone for our sinful ways.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Phmcw

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2269 on: January 19, 2011, 03:57:22 pm »

Quote
You consistently make sweeping generalizations.  This is not an isolated incident.

Just sayin', I suppose.

Yes all non extinct religion that I know about label the will of god good, or at least respectable. Satanism is not a religion.
Quote
By definition. If you'd worship a God whose will is to kill all humans (but slowly and not by direct intervention), you'd still say that his will is "good".
The dwarf do not worship us. They might as well be atheists ;). Therefore, they might not agree with our ideas of Fun™.

Yeah, they believe in fake, dwarf-like gods that lives in their realty. My point really.

Now even if a god existed you would not be obligated to worship it. Actually, it would probably be pointless, you just could not understand his will. A dwarf would never understand why I'm mad at him. He can't even reason. Hell he don't even understand the concept of understanding.
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Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Siquo

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2270 on: January 19, 2011, 05:22:29 pm »

Now even if a god existed you would not be obligated to worship it. Actually, it would probably be pointless, you just could not understand his will. A dwarf would never understand why I'm mad at him. He can't even reason. Hell he don't even understand the concept of understanding.
Yes, this is what I believe, as well. God is to us what we are to our dwarves. Incomprehensible, and he won't even notice or care about worship.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Shade-o

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2271 on: January 19, 2011, 05:44:12 pm »

What made you decide in favour of an incomprehensible supernatural universe instead of a natural one, when they are both offer the same experiences?

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Apparently having a redundant creature entry causes the game to say, "Oh, look, it's crazy world now. Nothing makes sense! Alligators live in houses!"

Andir

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2272 on: January 19, 2011, 05:47:37 pm »

The comfort/strength factor of religions is most undoubtedly a factor in how successful they are.  Regardless of what else you might call it, religious organizations are groups / teams.  The better they work together and the more confident they are in their lives, the bigger they will get if they allow converts,
What you are talking about is not belief in a higher power though... That's pure pomp and circumstance.  If you get 400 people together and they all help each other out, that doesn't mean the purple unicorn they worship is going to be any more real.  It's mind candy and has no "proof" or "evidence" of divine intervention.  It's mental masturbation.  Nothing about being a part of that group has to be divinely inspired, but if you place "diving inspiration" in there and people start following it to the letter then they start doing very bad things in the name of something imaginary.  (And yes, I consider bad things enacting laws based on that belief that other people who do not believe will have to follow or be punished for not being part of the gang.)  Yes, I said it, gang.

I'm reminded of lyrics:
Quote from: Primitive Radio Gods - Standing  Outside a Broken Phone Booth With Money in My Hand
We sit outside and argue all night long
About a god we've never seen
But never fails to side with me
Sunday comes and all the papers say
Ma Teresa's joined the mob
And happy with her full time job
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"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Siquo

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2273 on: January 19, 2011, 06:14:43 pm »

What made you decide in favour of an incomprehensible supernatural universe instead of a natural one, when they are both offer the same experiences?
Comfort and solace.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Shades

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2274 on: January 20, 2011, 06:50:57 am »

What made you decide in favour of an incomprehensible supernatural universe instead of a natural one, when they are both offer the same experiences?
Comfort and solace.

When an supernatural entity that on a whim could wipe out her creations is meant to provide comfort and solace there is serious issues with society, especially so when said entity is claimed to have done so previously.

Then again people enjoy living on fault lines too...
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Its like playing god with sentient legos. - They Got Leader
[Dwarf Fortress] plays like a dizzyingly complex hybrid of Dungeon Keeper and The Sims, if all your little people were manic-depressive alcoholics. - tv tropes
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right. - xkcd

Phmcw

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2275 on: January 20, 2011, 06:54:00 am »

Uh, that a super dwarf fortress player rule the universe bring you comfort and solace?  :o
The dwarfs are were still mercilessly erased to nothingness when they die, you know.
And their existence is still pointless.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 06:59:06 am by Phmcw »
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Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Shades

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2276 on: January 20, 2011, 06:57:14 am »

The dwarfs are still mercilessly erased to nothingness when they die, you know.

Dwarven ghosts show you are wrong.
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Its like playing god with sentient legos. - They Got Leader
[Dwarf Fortress] plays like a dizzyingly complex hybrid of Dungeon Keeper and The Sims, if all your little people were manic-depressive alcoholics. - tv tropes
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right. - xkcd

Siquo

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2277 on: January 20, 2011, 07:07:31 am »

And their existence is still pointless.
Nope, there is a point, they're just not aware of it, nor are they even capable to understand it. There being a point to it all is my comfort.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Max White

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2278 on: January 20, 2011, 07:08:50 am »

Now why would there even be a hell is evil dwarfs, goblins and elves didn't go there when they die? That's jull silly.

Earthquake Damage

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #2279 on: January 20, 2011, 07:17:13 am »

Then again people enjoy living on fault lines too...

That's not much of a statement.  You can find problems pretty much anywhere.  Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, bitter cold, large predators, wildfires, to name a few.  All of those are potentially fatal.
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