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[Shade-o]

We must be getting something right, since the last time God was annoyed he smote a few civilisations into the dirt.

And that was ages ago.

[Willfor]

If you read the later prophets you'll note that He figured out that it would be far easier to get His point across if He started using other civilizations to bring each other down once they'd reached the peeks of their distastefulness to Him. You could say that He's smote and will continue to smite all civilizations, and the first few were just highly visual warnings. Why do all of the work when the humans are going to do the work for Him?

[Zrk2]

But according to the Bible God already planned all of this, so their fall from grace was his fault, and therefore people are going to hell because he already wrote their entire lives.

[Willfor]

I was going to do a disclaimer on the post to say that I wasn't being serious, but I honestly thought the flippancy would come across easily. And disclaimers tend to kill whatever laughs I could get.

[Leafsnail]

Well, the story of Jesus was twisted somewhat to meet the prophecies.  See: the two different lists of how he was related to David, with almost no overlap.

[Urist is dead tome]

Wasn't Muhammad born in the year 570 AD, while Jesus was born in 4 BC?  Yeah not really contemporaries o_O.  Unless we're going to stretch the definition of "contemporaries" to allow a Galileo vs. Hubble telescope debate or something 

You lost me when you started with the prophecies. One of the reasons Jews don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah is because they weren't told there would be a second coming. Even if Jesus didn't die he didn't fulfill the prophecy.

This website has a pretty good list of the prophecies we use to justify the first coming.  I know, I know, that website doesn't exactly have the best layout, but at a glance it seems to have everything I was looking for.  True, I couldn't find an exact prophecy that said Jesus would come to earth twice, but when you look at all the prophecies (I'm a bit annoyed how this website says there's about 60 and it only lists 45, this isn't helping my case much...) you start to see a contradiction.  On one hand, the Messiah is going to be betrayed and killed, but on the other, he's going to save Israel.  With that in mind, and along with the accounts of the Gospels where Jesus pretty much explains how role at the time, we Christians believe in a first and second coming.

I'll just rest my case here.  I doubt I've convinced anybody but oh well, that's what we believe, and in a round about way, why Jesus told his disciples not to tell anyone he was the Messiah (at least not tell anyone at the time).

But perhaps by dying he did, in fact save Israel. If they hid him the Sanhedrin might have arranged a few killings. And if the Romans got involved then Israel would have been in big trouble.

[Phmcw]

Your savior didn't save them for long :

First Jewish–Roman War
Emperor Nero appointed general Vespasian to crush the rebellion.By the year 68, Jewish resistance in the north had been crushed, and Vespasian made Caesarea Maritima his headquarters and proceeded to methodically clear the coast.By the summer of 70, the Romans had breached the walls of Jerusalem, ransacking and burning nearly the entire city. The defeat of the Jewish revolt altered the Jewish diaspora, as many of the Jewish rebels were scattered or sold into slavery. Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, a sizeable portion of these were at Jewish hands and due to illnesses brought about by hunger.

Bar Kokhba revolt 132–136 AD
The outbreak took the Romans by surprise. Hadrian called his general Sextus Julius Severus from Britain, and troops were brought from as far as the Danube. The size of the Roman army amassed against the rebels was much larger than that commanded by Titus sixty years earlier. Roman losses were very heavy. The XXII Deiotariana was disbanded after serious losses.
The struggle lasted for three years before the revolt was brutally crushed in the summer of 135. After losing Jerusalem, Bar Kokhba and the remnants of his army withdrew to the fortress of Betar, which also subsequently came under siege. The Jerusalem Talmud relates that the numbers slain were enormous, that the Romans "went on killing until their horses were submerged in blood to their nostrils". The Talmud also relates that for seventeen years the Romans did not allow the Jews to bury their dead in Betar.

And finally the were finished of by Byzantium in 629. (source wikipeadia)

"Choosen one" indeed, but by Armok.

[Urist is dead tome]

But it might have been far worse.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Not really, that's pretty much as bad as it gets under Roman occupation. Unless you count what they did to Carthage, but that was a bit of an exception.

[Zrk2]

Your savior didn't save them for long :

First Jewish–Roman War
Emperor Nero appointed general Vespasian to crush the rebellion.By the year 68, Jewish resistance in the north had been crushed, and Vespasian made Caesarea Maritima his headquarters and proceeded to methodically clear the coast.By the summer of 70, the Romans had breached the walls of Jerusalem, ransacking and burning nearly the entire city. The defeat of the Jewish revolt altered the Jewish diaspora, as many of the Jewish rebels were scattered or sold into slavery. Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, a sizeable portion of these were at Jewish hands and due to illnesses brought about by hunger.

Bar Kokhba revolt 132–136 AD
The outbreak took the Romans by surprise. Hadrian called his general Sextus Julius Severus from Britain, and troops were brought from as far as the Danube. The size of the Roman army amassed against the rebels was much larger than that commanded by Titus sixty years earlier. Roman losses were very heavy. The XXII Deiotariana was disbanded after serious losses.
The struggle lasted for three years before the revolt was brutally crushed in the summer of 135. After losing Jerusalem, Bar Kokhba and the remnants of his army withdrew to the fortress of Betar, which also subsequently came under siege. The Jerusalem Talmud relates that the numbers slain were enormous, that the Romans "went on killing until their horses were submerged in blood to their nostrils". The Talmud also relates that for seventeen years the Romans did not allow the Jews to bury their dead in Betar.

And finally the were finished of by Byzantium in 629. (source wikipeadia)

"Choosen one" indeed, but by Armok.

Saving them was more of a spiritual thing, like saving their souls from the hellfires...

[Darvi]

Saving them was more of a spiritual thing, like saving their souls from the hellfires...

I still don't get that part. "Hey, our souls have been saved, now we can be as huge arseholes as we want and don't need to worry about eternal damnation!"

Maybe some misunderstanding on my part, there.

[KaguroDraven]

Saving them was more of a spiritual thing, like saving their souls from the hellfires...

I still don't get that part. "Hey, our souls have been saved, now we can be as huge arseholes as we want and don't need to worry about eternal damnation!"

Maybe some misunderstanding on my part, there.

It's that with jesus' death humanity is cleared of Original Sin. IE we don't get damned immediately just becouse adam and eve ate from a tree. Though that doesn't make much sense to me 'Hey you all brutally murdered my son, I guess you deserve to not have me punish you for what adam and eve did four millenia ago'

[Leafsnail]

Original sin kindof makes a mockery of heaven and hell anyway.  Since you can get punished for something that you had nothing to do with...

[Darvi]

Original sin kindof makes a mockery of heaven and hell anyway.  Since you can get punished for something that you had nothing to do with...

Yeah, god is like, you can  do whatever you want, but for my sake do not eat that fruit! When Adam and eve eat it he jumps out from behind the  bushes and goes all "Ha! Gotcha!"

[KaguroDraven]

Original sin kindof makes a mockery of heaven and hell anyway.  Since you can get punished for something that you had nothing to do with...

Yeah, god is like, you can  do whatever you want, but for my sake do not eat that fruit! When Adam and eve eat it he jumps out from behind the  bushes and goes all "Ha! Gotcha!"

I didn't want them to go near the tree becouse that's where I kept my porn collection, do you know how hard it is to find porn of Athena?