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[Max White]

So you are the puppet of someone in a pointy hat, and don't actually do anything?

*In KaguroDraven's voice*
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real god.

[Siquo]

But... everyone knows that God listens to the Pope.

[Max White]

Well, that makes one person.
*Ba du, tish!*

[Urist is dead tome]

Not that this isn't preferable to the other typical derail, but does anyone have any actual on-topic discussion?

It's the most amusing one yet

If I wanted to speak to one of my dorfs in DF, I'd probably make a dwarven avatar, and phrase stuff so he'd understand. Even then, I can't be sure that the concepts I want to convey make sense to him. I might try again a few more times ("No, you got it wrong!") and then give up. Maybe that's what God did to us. Just raise his arms and go all "whatever, I'm going to regen another universe" and occasionally checks in to see what we're up to.

If God made us all, are we all Artifical Life?

Yes. Yes we are.

[Max White]

It's the most amusing one yet

If I wanted to speak to one of my dorfs in DF, I'd probably make a dwarven avatar, and phrase stuff so he'd understand. Even then, I can't be sure that the concepts I want to convey make sense to him. I might try again a few more times ("No, you got it wrong!") and then give up. Maybe that's what God did to us. Just raise his arms and go all "whatever, I'm going to regen another universe" and occasionally checks in to see what we're up to.

If God made us all, are we all Artifical Life?

I hope not! I tend to delete my worlds once I'm bored with them.

[Siquo]

Yeah, but if you've got infinite processing power, memory and storage, why bother?

[Leafsnail]

If I wanted to speak to one of my dorfs in DF, I'd probably make a dwarven avatar, and phrase stuff so he'd understand. Even then, I can't be sure that the concepts I want to convey make sense to him. I might try again a few more times ("No, you got it wrong!") and then give up. Maybe that's what God did to us. Just raise his arms and go all "whatever, I'm going to regen another universe" and occasionally checks in to see what we're up to.

...Wouldn't that be his fault for creating us in a way that we can't understand his message?

If God made us all, are we all Artifical Life?

Depends.  If we take artificial to be "man made", I'd say no.

[Siquo]

...Wouldn't that be his fault for creating us in a way that we can't understand his message?

If he would have created us to be able to understand him completely, we'd be her. We would be copies of it, rendering the whole point moot.

Depends.  If we take artificial to be "man made", I'd say no.

Stuff made by aliens is also artificial. I actually find the whole term "artificial" kind of artificial. Humans are part of nature, too, so everything we make is natural, to me.

[Il Palazzo]

Stuff made by aliens is also artificial. I actually find the whole term "artificial" kind of artificial. Humans are part of nature, too, so everything we make is natural, to me.

Wasn't the perceived artificialness of the universe the basis of the watchmaker argument? Because I thought you were supporting it. Do correct me if I'm mistaking you with somebody else.

[Urist is dead tome]

Depends.  If we take artificial to be "man made", I'd say no.

Except man occurs in nature so we aren't artificial life in a sense.

But because I believe that without G-d then nothing would occur in nature I guess that nothing is natural. Although I'm probably thinking too much into this.

[Leafsnail]

If he would have created us to be able to understand him completely, we'd be her. We would be copies of it, rendering the whole point moot.

Not true.  We wouldn't have to understand God completely, just enough so we could understand his message.  I can read and understand a book without being a clone of the author.

Stuff made by aliens is also artificial. I actually find the whole term "artificial" kind of artificial. Humans are part of nature, too, so everything we make is natural, to me.

I think "artificial" as "man made" is actually fine.  The problem arises more from having "natural" as opposed to it.

[malimbar04]

If I wanted to speak to one of my dorfs in DF, I'd probably make a dwarven avatar, and phrase stuff so he'd understand. Even then, I can't be sure that the concepts I want to convey make sense to him. I might try again a few more times ("No, you got it wrong!") and then give up. Maybe that's what God did to us. Just raise his arms and go all "whatever, I'm going to regen another universe" and occasionally checks in to see what we're up to.

...Wouldn't that be his fault for creating us in a way that we can't understand his message?

If you replace "infinitely powerful and all-knowing" with "arbitrarily highly powerful and knowledgeable", then the problem is fixed. Maybe he put in a few simple messages, us loyal programs did more or less what he expected, he had fun, then he went off to play a star trek universe. I'm sure toady expects his dwarfs to do more or less what he programmed them to do, but he's not intending to have a deep conversation with the things.

[Siquo]

If he would have created us to be able to understand him completely, we'd be her. We would be copies of it, rendering the whole point moot.

Not true.  We wouldn't have to understand God completely, just enough so we could understand his message.  I can read and understand a book without being a clone of the author.

But you're both human. Would you understand a book written by a dog (if it could write in english)? Probably. Would you be able to write a book that that same dog could understand? Probably not. It has no idea of a lot of human concepts, and might probably understand half of it and just interpret the other half in his own worldview (and that's a safe estimate). It's the interpretations where it goes wrong, as they differ wildly and no-one knows which is right, if any of them is at all.

[Leafsnail]

So in spite of knowing that we wouldn't be able to comprehend what he told us, he told us it anyway, and got pissed off when we didn't understand?

[Siquo]

I don't think she's pissed off.