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[ECrownofFire]

Okay, so what's your opinion on karma-like systems?

Well it also works, but the amazing part of religen is that it says you get punished after death. So with normal karma, you see somebody do something wrong, and never get punished, and your beleifs are swayed. With hell, when somebody is clearly doing the wrong thing, and is never punished, then when they die (And they always do in the end) then you can sit back and laugh and say "Well atleast they are now in hell! Glad that will never happen to me!"

But seriously, do most people need a reason to be good? The only people that actually need a reason to be good are going to ignore it and do it anyway, or are need in some actual counseling or something, or both. That help may come from the people within the religion, but it never comes from the religion itself. Religion doesn't help those who are unwilling to help themselves, and one that claims it does, is just trying to get members.

YES! When soilders raid a town after capture, they loot and pillage and rape. When businessmen are in charge of an economy that not many understand, they cut corners and crash what ever they can.
People like to be greedy little S.O.Bs, and we need everything we can to stop them.

I am, of corse, the only exeption to this rule, because I'm awesome.

I'm also a believer in reincarnation. A person isn't punished in this life, they will in the next. I'm not going to try to preach to people though.

People in the military are trained to be like that. They are not trained to really deal with civilians. They get caught up in the heat of battle. There's a reason so many veterans get permanent psychological damage.

In business, people don't think of other people, they think of numbers. You don't think of real people in a video game, and that's all they really appear to be in business. Numbers contributing to your "score" to make it go higher.

[Max White]

Can you even imagine the emotional torment that would bring to a homosexual raised catholic? I certainly can't. To wake up every day with deeply ingraned thoughts that you are a horrible and evil individual just because of how you are? That is by no means alright.

No, I can't. I didn't grow up in a perticualy god fearing house, and I'm not gay. I do have a freind who is gay and christan, but that is a small sample group. Do you have any studies reguarding the issue, so we have something with soild evdence to go off, as a sence of empathy is hardly debate material.

There are people who continue to have children that they cannot feed and contract HIV in impovershed nations heavily influenced by the Roman Catholic Church, all because the Pope says that condoms are bad. I have no sympathy for an organization that specifically creates such problems in the name of ideological purity.

No realy, were are you reading this? I like links.

If anyone refrians from doing bad things only because they fear their god, then they have much bigger problems than religious indoctrination. Plus, the Vatican has other problems. You know, that whole covering up rampant child molestation thing?

Some people are sick and perverted, some people are part of the Church, would you like me to draw you a venn diagram to explain why there are sick perverts in the church? I think it is because people in the church are meant to be 'holy' that it has gotten more attention then any other demographic of sicko.

[Urist is dead tome]

Don't put this issue into the emotional spectrum. And I knew you weren't an old man. I can see you.

But on a serious note Max is right. Simply because there are perverts in the church doesn't mean that there are no other perverts anywhere.

And maybe condoms are bad. I think they are. Does that mean I enjoy the plight of many impoverished nations?

[Max White]

I'm also a believer in reincarnation. A person isn't punished in this life, they will in the next. I'm not going to try to preach to people though.

People in the military are trained to be like that. They are not trained to really deal with civilians. They get caught up in the heat of battle. There's a reason so many veterans get permanent psychological damage.

In business, people don't think of other people, they think of numbers. You don't think of real people in a video game, and that's all they really appear to be in business. Numbers contributing to your "score" to make it go higher.

Do you believe that your actions in this life determin what tier of live you get next time around? Therefor instead of hell, you get sewer rat? Or are do you belive in a clean slate each time. In that case, what religen are you?

In life, people don't think of other people

Fix'd that. *Emo hair flick* but realy, the only thing stopping all sorts of foul actions in fear of some sort of retribution, be it police or holy.

[Urist is dead tome]

If my memory serves my correctly CrownofFire is reading about Wicca and from the sound of it that is indeed his religion. And I think that would mean he believes that every living think at some point has or will be a tree, turtle, shark if you've been good.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No realy, were are you reading this? I like links.

Here's one for you.

Some people are sick and perverted, some people are part of the Church, would you like me to draw you a venn diagram to explain why there are sick perverts in the church? I think it is because people in the church are meant to be 'holy' that it has gotten more attention then any other demographic of sicko.

And everything would be fine if the Vatican expelled the child molesting priests and left them to the law, instead of covering up what happened and doing everything within their power to keep the victims from telling.

And I knew you weren't an old man. I can see you.

Well, I for one am creeped out now.

And maybe condoms are bad. I think they are.

Condoms prevent unwanted children and lessen STD rates. Why would you think of them as bad?

Does that mean I enjoy the plight of many impoverished nations?

If you were in a position of great authority to said impoverished nations, and told them to never use condoms, then you would be spreading the problem. This has nothing to do with taking some sort of sadistic joy in their plight.

[Max White]

I don't trust what I read in the paper, only sceitific reports. Papers are made to sell copys, reports are made to report.

Sorry if that seems like I'm just downplaying your evidence for no real reason, I feel like a jerk for doing it realy, but if your trying to convince me of anything, then no newspaper will ever achive that.

[Il Palazzo]

And maybe condoms are bad. I think they are.

Condoms prevent unwanted children and lessen STD rates. Why would you think of them as bad?

Man, they make you feel like you're swimming with rubber boots on. Bad condoms, bad.

[Max White]

Man, they make you feel like you're swimming with rubber boots on. Bad condoms, bad.

Resisting urge to make joke refering to size of penis inside rubber boot...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't trust what I read in the paper, only sceitific reports. Papers are made to sell copys, reports are made to report.

Sorry if that seems like I'm just downplaying your evidence for no real reason, I feel like a jerk for doing it realy, but if your trying to convince me of anything, then no newspaper will ever achive that.

If you really think that there exists no truth in the news, then just go here and look through the citations for somthing you do consider valid.

[Max White]

No truth? No, just not reliable truth, especialy on anything contraversial.

I trust wikipedia a little more though, be back after some light reading!

EDIT:
Oh come on, in the opeinign paragraph.

In response to the widening scandal, Pope John Paul II emphasized the spiritual nature of the offenses as well

These people don't represent the church, there just a cancer that grew out of its side, and the church it trying to get rid of it.

[ECrownofFire]

I'm also a believer in reincarnation. A person isn't punished in this life, they will in the next. I'm not going to try to preach to people though.

People in the military are trained to be like that. They are not trained to really deal with civilians. They get caught up in the heat of battle. There's a reason so many veterans get permanent psychological damage.

In business, people don't think of other people, they think of numbers. You don't think of real people in a video game, and that's all they really appear to be in business. Numbers contributing to your "score" to make it go higher.

Do you believe that your actions in this life determin what tier of live you get next time around? Therefor instead of hell, you get sewer rat? Or are do you belive in a clean slate each time. In that case, what religen are you?

In life, people don't think of other people

Fix'd that. *Emo hair flick* but realy, the only thing stopping all sorts of foul actions in fear of some sort of retribution, be it police or holy.

No, there are no "tiers of life". All life is equally "sacred" and should be respected. Whatever you are reincarnated as is probably determined by the gods in some way, most likely constructed to teach you a lesson somehow.

Uh huh, you go ahead and think that. I'll be here with those that say that people aren't all bad. Really, life is not naturally good or bad. Including humans and whatever sentient life may or may not exist out there. (Hey, you never know, right?)

If my memory serves my correctly CrownofFire is reading about Wicca and from the sound of it that is indeed his religion. And I think that would mean he believes that every living think at some point has or will be a tree, turtle, shark if you've been good.

Sort of. You will get reincarnated as a bunch of other things, but I don't pretend to know what you will be reincarnated as, nor when it all "ends". (Presumably, when the universe does, unless it all starts up again)

[Max White]

Interesting.
I like new beleifs. If you don't think of it as offencive, would you mind telling me a little more about your own? Between most of the people I know being christan, and a few with eatern beleifs, I have never talked to somebody that beleived in Wicca, and a big part of tolerance is understanding.

[FuzzyZergling]

Well, it is my personal opinion that the "don't do things because they are bad" way of thinking is not a very good way of thinking.
Just my opinion, though.

Why not? It seems logical.

Darn my stupid way of saying things!
What I meant was, "Don't do this because I say it is bad" should be replaced with "Don't do this because you have figured it out for yourself that it is something that should not be done".

[Max White]

Darn my stupid way of saying things!
What I meant was, "Don't do this because I say it is bad" should be replaced with "Don't do this because you have figured it out for yourself that it is something that should not be done".

But that isn't mass brainwashing at all! Why it leaves room for error, what if somebody decided that was most think to be unthinkable, was in there situation perfectly fine?