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[Max White]

No. Jesus said that he came to fufill the old law, not to abolish it. Old Testament counts, no matter how much people want to shout that it doesn't.

Aww, your no fun. Fine, we play by 'full bible' rules. Can I atleast bring other religens into this? Buddisem is a realy good one, they don't have much hate and killing at all.

I'm certainly going to condemn them for being hypocrites who pick and choose from the parts of the Bible they like/are told to like while, yes, sometimes not reading it themselves. (Unless by "large group" you don't mean the christians themselves, in which case I don't know who you mean.)

Am I to bring from this that if somebody commited themself fully to every word in the bible, and stoned there son for death for swearing, you would atleast respect them for sticking to there word? Ok, interesting priortys, but I can play along.

What does that have to do with anything? Christians are people like you and me, most of the things they do have absolutely nothing to do with being christians. They are no more valuble to society than atheists, or anyone else for that matter. Even so, what they do shouldn't stop you from making choices about the existance of gods.

Well there are hundreds, maybe thousands of christan charitys out there. Are there anu athiest ones? No, don't go pointing out the agnotic ones, ones founded in the name of there not being a god.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Aww, your no fun. Fine, we play by 'full bible' rules. Can I atleast bring other religens into this? Buddisem is a realy good one, they don't have much hate and killing at all.

I'm not sure what you want to bring it into. The debate?

Am I to bring from this that if somebody commited themself fully to every word in the bible, and stoned there son for death for swearing, you would atleast respect them for sticking to there word? Ok, interesting priortys, but I can play along.

No. It isn't alright to be a hypocrite, however. I want Christians to own up to the existance of bad stuff in the Bible, not to follow it.

Well there are hundreds, maybe thousands of christan charitys out there. Are there anu athiest ones? No, don't go pointing out the agnotic ones, ones founded in the name of there not being a god.

The idea of an expicitly atheist charity is stupid. Atheism is the lack of a belief (that being in the existance of gods), a negitive position as opposed to theism's positive claim on a belief. No charity would be formed in the name of there being no god. There are plenty of secular and humanistic charities, which have nothing to do with religion. The existance of charities with a religious agenda mean nothing. Note that the Roman Catholic Church has closed their charity efforts in areas where gay people are allowed to adopt children in the past, which should show you the danger of charities with agendas like that of religions.

[Max White]

I'm not sure what you want to bring it into. The debate?

Yea! These dabates are always Christians Vs. Others. Sometimes it's Christ Vs. Science, or we throw muslims into it, but all in all, Jehovah get's way too much of the spot light.

No. It isn't alright to be a hypocrite, however. I want Christians to own up to the existance of bad stuff in the Bible, not to follow it.

I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find some christians who will admit that there is some bad stuff in the bible that you shouldn't follow.

The idea of an expicitly atheist charity is stupid. Atheism is the lack of a belief (that being in the existance of gods), a negitive position as opposed to theism's positive claim on a belief. No charity would be formed in the name of there being no god. There are plenty of secular and humanistic charities, which have nothing to do with religion. The existance of charities with a religious agenda mean nothing. Note that the Roman Catholic Church has closed their charity efforts in areas where gay people are allowed to adopt children in the past, which should show you the danger of charities with agendas like that of religions.

So, doing good in the name of a deity you beleve in is ok, but doing good in the name of defending the fact that no such diety exists is silly? Well there you have it! If people like said deity, they will do good! Who the hell cares what the bible has to say, as long as they don't rape there neighbors and help elderly women cross the street, for fear of burning in hell, they don't need to know or understand the bible! Mind control at it's greatest!

And pish, so the vattakin has problems with gays. I'm sure over time, if we fight for homosexual rights, they will change there minds. I beleive our latest pope said that under specific situatons condoms are ok, if web comics are to be trusted, and they are.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You are missing the point on the whole charity thing, but I don't think you are taking it seriously anyway. In any case, the Vatican has changed over the centuries, but not all that much. In my eyes, they are still an evil organization for the things that they've done, and will probably remain so untill the whole church falls in on itself.

[ECrownofFire]

Religious charities are just another way to get more members. They say they're doing it in the name of God or whatever, and somehow that gets people to join up once they see how great God is or something. Actually, I think it's more like "donate money to not go to Hell"... I don't know how these things are supposed to work.

Atheism doesn't have any organization. It can't want any more members. It makes about as much sense to have an atheistic charity as it does to have a charity supported by conspiracy theorists or something. (There's not very many examples that don't use religion, okay? I could just have easily said people who don't believe in the FSM)

You are missing the point on the whole charity thing, but I don't think you are taking it seriously anyway. In any case, the Vatican has changed over the centuries, but not all that much. In my eyes, they are still an evil organization for the things that they've done, and will probably remain so untill the whole church falls in on itself.

I wouldn't call them evil, but they're not exactly the best around.

AND THEY TOTALLY REPRESENT EVERY CHRISTIAN EVER (not directed directly at you, but the thread in general)

[Max White]

That's another thing they like, forgivness.
I don't care if the church lead crusades against the east back before anybody here was alive, there not doing that today. The wost thing the church does is tell homosexual people that they are sinners for the way that there god made them (But most are smart enough to see through this) and that any sex before marrage is wrong, so don't use a comdom (And granted one way spreads STIs and the other is bad for your emotional state, when was the last time teenage kids cared about god?)

I don't think it is possible to count the number of people that don't do bad things for fear of devine retribution. If you are a prick, you get stuck by lightning, and people belive it! It's so perfect!

[FuzzyZergling]

I'm a little confused about what you're trying to say, Max.

[Max White]

I like religen, because religen says that bad things happen to bad people, so people try to be good.

That's just about it.

[Urist is dead tome]

I want Christians to own up to the existance of bad stuff in the Bible, not to follow it.

You come off as an old man sitting by a window shaking his fist at the local church.

I've never heard a a Christian trying to weasel out of admitting there is bad stuff in the Bible. Ever. Not only that but what you mean by "bad stuff" is quite vague.

And the Vatican is not an evil thing it's just got a wrong view.

[ECrownofFire]

I like religen, because religen says that bad things happen to bad people, so people try to be good.

That's just about it.

Okay, so what's your opinion on karma-like systems?

But seriously, do most people need a reason to be good? The only people that actually need a reason to be good are going to ignore it and do it anyway, or are need in some actual counseling or something, or both. That help may come from the people within the religion, but it never comes from the religion itself. Religion doesn't help those who are unwilling to help themselves, and one that claims it does, is just trying to get members.

[Max White]

You come off as an old man sitting by a window shaking his fist at the local church.

 
Dang Christans! The Salem whitch hunts happened, and I know it! Fess up!

[FuzzyZergling]

Well, it is my personal opinion that the "don't do things because they are bad" way of thinking is not a very good way of thinking.
Just my opinion, though.

_{(Also I think it is spelled religion.)}

Double ninja'd, all away across the sky!

[Max White]

Okay, so what's your opinion on karma-like systems?

Well it also works, but the amazing part of religen is that it says you get punished after death. So with normal karma, you see somebody do something wrong, and never get punished, and your beleifs are swayed. With hell, when somebody is clearly doing the wrong thing, and is never punished, then when they die (And they always do in the end) then you can sit back and laugh and say "Well atleast they are now in hell! Glad that will never happen to me!"

But seriously, do most people need a reason to be good? The only people that actually need a reason to be good are going to ignore it and do it anyway, or are need in some actual counseling or something, or both. That help may come from the people within the religion, but it never comes from the religion itself. Religion doesn't help those who are unwilling to help themselves, and one that claims it does, is just trying to get members.

YES! When soilders raid a town after capture, they loot and pillage and rape. When businessmen are in charge of an economy that not many understand, they cut corners and crash what ever they can.
People like to be greedy little S.O.Bs, and we need everything we can to stop them.

I am, of corse, the only exeption to this rule, because I'm awesome.

[Max White]

Well, it is my personal opinion that the "don't do things because they are bad" way of thinking is not a very good way of thinking.
Just my opinion, though.

Why not? It seems logical.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's another thing they like, forgivness.
I don't care if the church lead crusades against the east back before anybody here was alive, there not doing that today.

Not what I'm talking about.

The wost thing the church does is tell homosexual people that they are sinners for the way that there god made them (But most are smart enough to see through this)

Can you even imagine the emotional torment that would bring to a homosexual raised catholic? I certainly can't. To wake up every day with deeply ingraned thoughts that you are a horrible and evil individual just because of how you are? That is by no means alright.

and that any sex before marrage is wrong, so don't use a comdom (And granted one way spreads STIs and the other is bad for your emotional state, when was the last time teenage kids cared about god?)

There are people who continue to have children that they cannot feed and contract HIV in impovershed nations heavily influenced by the Roman Catholic Church, all because the Pope says that condoms are bad. I have no sympathy for an organization that specifically creates such problems in the name of ideological purity.

I don't think it is possible to count the number of people that don't do bad things for fear of devine retribution. If you are a prick, you get stuck by lightning, and people belive it! It's so perfect!

If anyone refrians from doing bad things only because they fear their god, then they have much bigger problems than religious indoctrination. Plus, the Vatican has other problems. You know, that whole covering up rampant child molestation thing?

I like religen, because religen says that bad things happen to bad people, so people try to be good.

That's just about it.

Guess what. Bad things also happen to good people. The "good" that these people try to be is whatever their religion says is good, which it doesn't have to actually be.

You come off as an old man sitting by a window shaking his fist at the local church.

I'm quite young, actually.

I've never heard a a Christian trying to weasel out of admitting there is bad stuff in the Bible. Ever.

Then you don't know the christians I know.

Not only that but what you mean by "bad stuff" is quite vague.

I could make a list, but there's already one here that shows the sort of stuff I'm talking about. (Not all of the catagories though, use your judgement.)