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Author Topic: Atheism Redux [READ THE FIRST POST]  (Read 187775 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #735 on: December 18, 2010, 05:13:41 pm »

No one prays to Santa Claus.
Yes they do. Young children practically beg Santa to give them what they want.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

Glowcat

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #736 on: December 18, 2010, 05:15:30 pm »

But this is more complicated than that. No one prays to Santa Claus.

Unless you count those children writing their requests every year.

But your objection is a non sequitur anyways. Why would praying make the determination of existence different?
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Totally a weretrain. Very much trains!
I'm going to steamroll this house.

Urist is dead tome

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #737 on: December 18, 2010, 05:16:59 pm »

Good point. Here's my stance on atheism.

"In the words of Neil Fallon.
Got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church
Even the Mole People, they got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church"

But this is more complicated than that. No one prays to Santa Claus.

Unless you count those children writing their requests every year.

But your objection is a non sequitur anyways. Why would praying make the determination of existence different?

Because no one defends the existence of Santa.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #738 on: December 18, 2010, 05:19:25 pm »

Good point. Here's my stance on atheism.

"In the words of Neil Fallon.
Got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church
Even the Mole People, they got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church"
I don't get it. Are you trying to say that atheists want religion? Most of us don't.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Shades

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #739 on: December 18, 2010, 05:19:35 pm »

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Its like playing god with sentient legos. - They Got Leader
[Dwarf Fortress] plays like a dizzyingly complex hybrid of Dungeon Keeper and The Sims, if all your little people were manic-depressive alcoholics. - tv tropes
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #740 on: December 18, 2010, 05:20:51 pm »

Good point. Here's my stance on atheism.

"In the words of Neil Fallon.
Got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church
Even the Mole People, they got to get religion
They gotta join that underground church"
I don't get it. Are you trying to say that atheists want religion? Most of us don't.


That was from a song.

Because no one defends the existence of Santa.

http://www.angelfire.com/tn/EasyE/texts/proofsanta.html

That's gotta be a joke.
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FuzzyZergling

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #741 on: December 18, 2010, 05:29:16 pm »

But this is more complicated than that. No one prays to Santa Claus.
Do you not believe in the power of the Jolly One?
Heretic!
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #742 on: December 18, 2010, 05:30:36 pm »

But this is more complicated than that. No one prays to Santa Claus.
Do you not believe in the power of the Jolly One?
Heretic!

My advice there would be to open up you're own tax exempt church.
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Glowcat

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #743 on: December 18, 2010, 05:41:15 pm »

Because no one defends the existence of Santa.

Nobody defends the existence of Zeus either. Not anymore at least. Did he cease to exist when people stopped defending him?

How about the existence of all the deities or variations of the monotheistic deity? How about non-theistic supernatural beliefs? Or Pseudo-scientific beliefs such as Astrology, Extraterrestrial Visitors, or Alternative Medicine? Do you give those ideas credence simply because people passionately defend them?

Why is your particular idea of the supernatural more valid than other peoples'?
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #744 on: December 18, 2010, 08:30:03 pm »

I think Shrugging Khan is dead.
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Toady One

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #745 on: December 18, 2010, 09:25:43 pm »

Shrugging Khan has been muted for a week, just now.  I hope people can keep it together.
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Zrk2

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #746 on: December 18, 2010, 09:38:23 pm »

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson

Think about it, both are equally absurd. If one finds fault with the idea of the creation of Minerva then one must also find fault with the creation of Jesus.
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Urist is dead tome

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #747 on: December 18, 2010, 10:12:30 pm »

I have to withdraw from this here debate. The (Essential.) death of Shrugging khan was a wake up.
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malimbar04

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #748 on: December 18, 2010, 10:17:51 pm »

Shrugging Khan has been muted for a week, just now.  I hope people can keep it together.
And the forum becomes much quieter.

Anyways, It's relatively easy to disprove the existence of god as long as god has a definition to compare to. I've said this before in this thread (several times). If god has any meaning at all for us, then he's testable.

A few tests so far:
Does the god answer prayers for health?
- Answer is no
Is the world flat?
- The answer is no
Is hell below us?
- The answer is no
Was the earth created in 6 days?
- The answer is no
Does believing in god cause peace?
- The answer is no
Are worshipers guaranteed to win in battle?
- The answer is no
Do worshipers live longer than non-worshipers?
- The answer is no
Are people made directly out of dust?
- The answer is no
Are bats birds?
- the answer is no

In fact, we know so much about the universe that I hardly see any room left for god. It's not only that no evidence exists for god's existence, it's that every scientific claim that came from the god hypothesis has been proven false, or at best not requiring a god to happen.
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No! No! I will not massacre my children. Instead, I'll make them corpulent on crappy mass-produced quarry bush biscuits and questionably grown mushroom alcohol, and then send them into the military when they turn 12...

Bauglir

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Re: Atheism Redux
« Reply #749 on: December 18, 2010, 11:51:17 pm »

Yeah, many gods are logically impossible (mostly stemming from being simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving). The concept itself isn't (see: Deism). Neither are all specific gods (pantheons can often be rationalized by the fact that no member is omnipotent and there's a general tendency toward selfishness, so that failures to act on behalf of or against humans are easily explained by their complete lack of concern).

Overall, though, it seems to me that you have to take different stances with what you believe, and what you think other people need to believe. It's one thing to determine that you believe there is no God, but it's another to insist upon that to somebody who does believe it. I think a complete lack of evidence is sufficient for my disbelief, but is insufficient for undermining somebody else's beliefs. Especially because, as far as they're concerned, their life experiences have provided evidence, and no amount of debate can convince them that a lack of evidence that God does not exist will trump their own experience that suggests he does. The best you are likely to do is get somebody to admit that God may not exist, but probably does. That's my experience, at least.

Also, I apologize for my laxness in paying attention to this thread. Arguments always seem to happen 2 hours before I get on the forums and then wrap up before I have a chance to say or do anything. It's good that they end quickly, but I hope they occur less frequently in the future.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
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