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[Cthulhu]

It's no big feat. It happens all the time.

Not often enough.

Anyway, a topic for discussion if you (not you specifically to Khan, but to the thread in general) wish: lady at my university says she's Jewish and Christian because those are the only two religions that teach their followers to be nice to one another. I already know she's full of crap, but what do you think?

I think it's quite poor to require religion in order to be nice...also, to be nice to one another among the faith? That's easy. Try being nice to someone who believes differently. I know I've given up on that.

Aren't you the same guy that flew into the Religion Survey thread, tossed out that ridiculous "Sup americunts" post, and then flew off?

[Shrugging Khan]

Who, me?

No, you misunderstand.  I'm not saying that God came to our mathematicians in a blinding flash of inspiration.  I'm saying that the very existence of all the crazy shit we have is totally awesome.  Euler's Identity for one.  The wonderful thing about math is that it's a universal language--it reveals truths inherent to the universe, things that are true whether we discover them or not.  And some of those truths are so whacked-out crazy awesome that, well, they're like works of art.  Literal works of art.

So...because to our monkey brains, something seems unusually elegant, it must be because some divine agent thought of it? Rather than, you know, things just happening to be that way?

[Shinziril]

His statement of "the very existence of all the crazy shit we have is totally awesome" does not actually require a divine agent.  He is simply stating the fact that, to him, the existence of all that crazy shit is totally awesome.  This is not really an unreasonable view; I happen to share it, while I personally think that things did, in fact, "just happen to be that way".  He, on the other hand, sees it as slight (but not definitive) evidence of the existence of SOME sort of creator, whatever form that might take. 

I'm going to invoke "let's agree to agree" here. 

[Heron TSG]

Nobody's this lucky.  Flip a coin ten times and have it come up heads each time, and you're having a pretty good day.  Flip it a thousand times and have it come up heads each time...well, something's fishy.  The fact that we can exist means that something's real fishy in our favor.

For all we know, the 'Big Crunch' and 'Big Bang' have occurred numerous times. Perhaps a billion times. It's impossible to count how many times the universe has rolled low before hitting a natural twenty.

1. The Moon will one day crash into Earth, possibly killing everyone.

The Moon's orbit is decaying away from Earth.

Err... how? The moon's tangential velocity is slowing and the Earth's gravity remains the same.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

1. The Moon will one day crash into Earth, possibly killing everyone.

The Moon's orbit is decaying away from Earth.

Err... how? The moon's tangential velocity is slowing and the Earth's gravity remains the same.

Like this.

[Criptfeind]

For all we know, the 'Big Crunch' and 'Big Bang' have occurred numerous times. Perhaps a billion times. It's impossible to count how many times the universe has rolled low before hitting a natural twenty.
Err... how? The moon's tangential velocity is slowing and the Earth's gravity remains the same.

Wouldn't a billion time be... a bit low?

I mean, nothing says anything had to start, I find it much more likely that it has already done it infinite time. Unless we know that has not happened or something.

Of course that does not really defeat what he is say, I don't think math is going to change just because we go though a universe cycle.

[Dakk]

1. The Moon will one day crash into Earth, possibly killing everyone.

The Moon's orbit is decaying away from Earth.

Err... how? The moon's tangential velocity is slowing and the Earth's gravity remains the same.
[/quote]

The fact its getting farther from earth is exactly the cause of why its orbit is getting slower. If it were closer it'd be getting faster.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Shrugging Khan]

Gentlemen, please cease this talk of actual science. We're here to have a flaming dispute about atheism.

[Micro102]

Khan, didn't toady mute you?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That was The Transendent Tyrant.

[Criptfeind]

Easy mistake to make.

[Shrugging Khan]

Hey, I resent that!

[Criptfeind]

I am sure TTT does as well.

[Leafsnail]

I guess my arguments are kind of like evolutionists', really:
1) The universe is incredibly complicated, driven by a huge number of variables.
2) The conditions required for life are an incredibly narrow band, too small for chance.
3) If not by chance, then by an intelligently guided hand.
4) Therefore:  A higher power must have set those initial variables.

I have a serious, serious issue with number 3.  And the end of number two.

There's no such thing as "too small for chance".  Just ask a lottery winner.

And there's other options than intelligence even if it can't be by chance.  How about, say, an infinite number of parallel universes, each with slightly different fundamental variables?

[Shrugging Khan]

How about we lifeforms stop feeling so damned special. There's probably a billion other primordial soups out there, just waiting to sprout sentience, and another times as many civilisations that have already come and gone, and maybe even some that stuck around but didn't quite bother paying us, who we are the centre of the world, a visit yet.