[color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
Specifically which portions of the rest of the Improved Sieges notes (besides prisoner stuff) are you leaning towards leaving us with before the Big Wait?From the way it's worded it seems to refer to specifically just the prisoner stuff? (as in, he cut those 2 items out of the improved sieges section and into the pre-magic stuff).
Something that struck me earlier thinking of the myth and magic stuff, and as far as I can remember hasn't been officially talked about (someone please point me in the right direction if it has):
Do the plans for permanent changes to occur to myth-level elements during regular play include changes to races? It's a fairly common fantasy theme after all to have races be cursed and/or corrupted and become dark elves and whatnot.
I notice dark pits sites have taverns, libraries and so on listed in legends, but they don't actually exist in the game proper. I don't recall seeing those abstract locations for hillocks, small forest retreats and hamlets, but those could definitely use having small versions of those. Hillocks and dark pits in particular seem like they need some improvements, considering they seem to lack armory areas, and drinking mounds dont even have furniture or booze.
Will battles and war and the likes ever be an on-screen thing? Will I be able to watch and control my dworfs in epic battles, offensive sieges, or see them in a town I captured? Will raids follow that eventually or will only certain things get that king of treatment? Or will that not happen at all?
Quote from: DGHas Toady mentioned whether in the first iteration you'll be able to see the tact squads in action in some sort of remote window view or will they simply disappear off screen and then update you on what's happened when/if they later return?Knight Otu answered this, but just to reiterate, definitely no remote view on the first pass. It's a hard/tedious problem akin to the addition of the Z coordinate to get that working in the current framework. However, it's also a problem we'd like to tackle -- magic release is the first place that might happen, with something like planar travel (which is best when you can see both sides of a portal, say). When we code that, it'll support viewing squads in the same plane at distant locations.
It says some things from Improved Sieges below and also the prisoner stuff (which is new and not in Improved Sieges).Specifically which portions of the rest of the Improved Sieges notes (besides prisoner stuff) are you leaning towards leaving us with before the Big Wait?From the way it's worded it seems to refer to specifically just the prisoner stuff? (as in, he cut those 2 items out of the improved sieges section and into the pre-magic stuff)..[/color]
It says some things from Improved Sieges below and also the prisoner stuff (which is new and not in Improved Sieges).
Ah, so the 'also:' is just a copy/paste error? Fair enough.It says some things from Improved Sieges below and also the prisoner stuff (which is new and not in Improved Sieges).
The below refers to the prisoner stuff, no? (which was previously listed under improved sieges)
Will the medical improvements to the military system extend to animals, pets, and mounts? To fortress mode so dwarves will operate a proper veterinary hospital service? Civilization Ethics behind putting down a pet or mount which is too badly wounded to live?Do dwarves even have mounts right now? The mounts in the upcoming updates mentioned are for adventurers. Eventually I'm sure there'll be fortress mode mounts, but I'd guess they're not coming soon.
If the player can give items to companions, and mounts are kind-of those, would this allow player-controlled pack animals to exist? Mounts with war gear like armor/uniform? How will this be integrated into the military screen?
Finally fixing the "Amphibian mount drowns their rider" problem?
+ Will mounts/pets have to be fed by the player or are they abstracted to handle it themselves while traveling? Will fortress mode animals be feedable, finally, to avoid starvation while the fortress guard rides their war horses through the stone floor halls?
Dorf siegers have mounts. But not the dorfs you play.Not yet anyhow. :)
Can you elaborate on the current efficiency of the program in terms of world building? Would you remark as to the feasibility of separating the world building part of DF into a separate slave-executeable which we could put on servers to allow worlds to be built by faster computers (probaby maintained by the community)?I very much doubt it would be particularly useful. DF essentially uses a single thread (which can execute in parallel with other threads running other DF instances), but also uses a lot of memory access (which mostly would compete with other DF instances). At the end you might build a custom computer that generates a 4 hour world in half an hour provided nobody else is using it, but would be slower than local world gen if there is a significant demand for it.
Thanks for the answers, Toady!Something that struck me earlier thinking of the myth and magic stuff, and as far as I can remember hasn't been officially talked about (someone please point me in the right direction if it has):
Do the plans for permanent changes to occur to myth-level elements during regular play include changes to races? It's a fairly common fantasy theme after all to have races be cursed and/or corrupted and become dark elves and whatnot.
During the GDS myth talk, there was a piece where a god cursed a group of fey to become demons as a punishment, and I think I remember seeing something about cursing dwarves to become goblins as well. I could see something like this happen where instead of using an existing race, it would derive the new race from the old.
The 'medical improvements' listed in the dev log are for adv. mode only, or we also are gonna get improvements in fort mode healthcare?I was also wondering about this.
Could you elaborate on the type of improvements you've thought?
During the GDS myth talk, there was a piece where a god cursed a group of fey to become demons as a punishment, and I think I remember seeing something about cursing dwarves to become goblins as well. I could see something like this happen where instead of using an existing race, it would derive the new race from the old.
I've seen a few discussions about the cause of FPS death. Can you please explain in simple terms exactly where the bottleneck lies, and how easy or difficult it will be to address?Honestly, my impression of Toady's development process is that the answer to this question is "mostly no". Toady addresses FPS problems as bugs, not as metrics. There have been fixes that address FPS issues, and over times where Toady has chosen to only partially fix issues, so those amount to known bottlenecks. In the same vein there are some subsystems that are known to be slow, such as fluids.
Will there be any limit to how powerful magic is?You'll really need to define what you mean by that. What does "powerful" mean to a race who have the innate ability to transform into a bucket?
That's kinda what I'm talking about, just overall how powerful can magic be (can people get turned into inanimate objects, can a single spell kill everything on the planet, is it possible to have a spell that makes it permanently winter, etc.) just looking for the limit of how crazy the magic system can be.Will there be any limit to how powerful magic is?You'll really need to define what you mean by that. What does "powerful" mean to a race who have the innate ability to transform into a bucket?
Generating a world in which children can destroy the earth at will, would be kind of annoying, sure, so in that respect I imagine there are certain 'limits'.
World changing events are in, so, pretty powerful I imagine. Artifacts that effect the fate of races too.That's kinda what I'm talking about, just overall how powerful can magic be (can people get turned into inanimate objects, can a single spell kill everything on the planet, is it possible to have a spell that makes it permanently winter, etc.) just looking for the limit of how crazy the magic system can be.Will there be any limit to how powerful magic is?You'll really need to define what you mean by that. What does "powerful" mean to a race who have the innate ability to transform into a bucket?
Generating a world in which children can destroy the earth at will, would be kind of annoying, sure, so in that respect I imagine there are certain 'limits'.
That's kinda what I'm talking about, just overall how powerful can magic be (can people get turned into inanimate objects, can a single spell kill everything on the planet, is it possible to have a spell that makes it permanently winter, etc.) just looking for the limit of how crazy the magic system can be.
How do you intend to make procedurally generated magic become "thematic"? Most fantasy works organize their magic around one or more themes, each theme having all magic working similarly. For example, some split magic into elements, or into schools. Brandon Sanderson is famous for particularly intricate magic systems... such as all magic requiring the user to ingest and "burn" metal inside their stomachs to cast spells. All fantasy magics that are more than fairytales have SOME organization to their magic.
I presume spheres would be involved. Will the RAWs have to expand to have lists of ways the spheres can influence magic? I know the myths will direct how magic works... but coherence is important! If a fire spirit is the source of magic in the world, how will the game know to make fire always part of the cost, or the effect, of the magic?
If a fire spirit is the source of magic in the world, how will the game know to make fire always part of the cost, or the effect, of the magic?That's pretty much what the myth generator does (at least in the demo versions). If a fire spirit created the elves and gave them innate magical abilities, it'll be mostly fire related magic. It's procedural generation, not "random".
Welp, a new thread means I guess it's that time again, since it hasn't been seen in a while.Mañana
Giant desert scorpions when? :V
That's kinda what I'm talking about, just overall how powerful can magic be (can people get turned into inanimate objects, can a single spell kill everything on the planet, is it possible to have a spell that makes it permanently winter, etc.) just looking for the limit of how crazy the magic system can be.Will there be any limit to how powerful magic is?You'll really need to define what you mean by that. What does "powerful" mean to a race who have the innate ability to transform into a bucket?
Generating a world in which children can destroy the earth at will, would be kind of annoying, sure, so in that respect I imagine there are certain 'limits'.
Lots of fun new off-site raiding options. I wonder if some people will manage to make 100% tribute/raiding-dependent fortresses?Until you can tell dwarves to bring back specific items (like booze, wood, metal bars, etc) it's not much different from running a regular fortress as you still need dwarves doing all the basics (like making beds, brewing booze, chopping trees, cooking the livestock you steal, tanning the hides, etc. But yeah, you can ignore the wagon now if you want (maybe tribute requires a depot though, so you might not be able to turn off wagons altogether).
Have you considered asking the community to perform some bulk tasks where someone would take on the task to organize the collection of the results to return it to you in a "finished" shape?
One potential case would be a future revamp of plants which would call for the collection of data for new tags such as e.g. limits to salinity tolerance, or pH value ranges (and probably a whole bunch more) for the existing range of plant raws.
Another potential case would be bulk production of raws for magic info where you might give some samples, description of the tags, and the names of the groups of raws to be produced (e.g. 10-20 effects for each of these spheres).
I can certainly understand if you feel that the burden of managing it is higher than the effort of doing the work yourself, however.
Quote from: UristocratWhat sort of research would help you the most? And how should the research be presented: tables summarizing the findings, links to sources where you can get the data yourself, or both? Are modified and annotated RAWs ever useful, or is it better to focus on creating forum posts with the necessary information?
Filling in the missing/incorrect/vague numbers I've got is the most useful thing that can be done now, since I'm most likely to be able to use it. Tables are fine, as long as there is a source for it, and having it already converted into the game's units is best. Raws are fine too, as long as they are sourced, and not so different from the originals that a diff utility is useless.
I know Toady isn't a fan of being a manager, and I can understand that completely, as I have the same distaste for performing those tasks (which also implies I'm not offering to lead such efforts, though I can certainly participate in the work itself). That's also why I tried to describe it as asking for something that's more or less finished (as per the phase of the task) where someone from the community would perform the management. It seems Myth & Magic may have some rather substantial raw additions/modifications, and bulk production might be a good candidate for "outsourcing". As with all outsourcing, the task has to be easy enough to describe in sufficient detail that people without intimate knowledge of the surrounding logic can do the work without much additional guidance.Have you considered asking the community to perform some bulk tasks where someone would take on the task to organize the collection of the results to return it to you in a "finished" shape?
One potential case would be a future revamp of plants which would call for the collection of data for new tags such as e.g. limits to salinity tolerance, or pH value ranges (and probably a whole bunch more) for the existing range of plant raws.
Another potential case would be bulk production of raws for magic info where you might give some samples, description of the tags, and the names of the groups of raws to be produced (e.g. 10-20 effects for each of these spheres).
I can certainly understand if you feel that the burden of managing it is higher than the effort of doing the work yourself, however.
Fan data has been implemented before (Add real solid density values for stones & wood (added to 0.34.08!) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80022.0), and there a FotF reply (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84398.msg2281409#msg2281409) from long back touching on the topic:Quote from: Toady OneQuote from: UristocratWhat sort of research would help you the most? And how should the research be presented: tables summarizing the findings, links to sources where you can get the data yourself, or both? Are modified and annotated RAWs ever useful, or is it better to focus on creating forum posts with the necessary information?
Filling in the missing/incorrect/vague numbers I've got is the most useful thing that can be done now, since I'm most likely to be able to use it. Tables are fine, as long as there is a source for it, and having it already converted into the game's units is best. Raws are fine too, as long as they are sourced, and not so different from the originals that a diff utility is useless.
He's also mentioned he doesn't want to be a project manager though (Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1avszc/im_tarn_adams_of_bay_12_games_cocreator_of_dwarf/c91aa4o/)), so I assume he might not want to take on the inevitable extra management that would come with asking for something rather than getting it offered up more or less finished (not intending to speak for him of course and further answers would always be nice ^^).
I know Toady isn't a fan of being a manager, and I can understand that completely, as I have the same distaste for performing those tasks (which also implies I'm not offering to lead such efforts, though I can certainly participate in the work itself). That's also why I tried to describe it as asking for something that's more or less finished (as per the phase of the task) where someone from the community would perform the management. It seems Myth & Magic may have some rather substantial raw additions/modifications, and bulk production might be a good candidate for "outsourcing". As with all outsourcing, the task has to be easy enough to describe in sufficient detail that people without intimate knowledge of the surrounding logic can do the work without much additional guidance.
Even when (some) creativity is involved, the first 20 are a great fun to make, the next 30 are fun, the next 150 OK, and the last 800 a chore. A "please fill in the blanks" approach might be useful for large volumes. I may be overestimating the community, but I think we ought to be capable of accepting someone who's up to the task as coordinator.I know Toady isn't a fan of being a manager, and I can understand that completely, as I have the same distaste for performing those tasks (which also implies I'm not offering to lead such efforts, though I can certainly participate in the work itself). That's also why I tried to describe it as asking for something that's more or less finished (as per the phase of the task) where someone from the community would perform the management. It seems Myth & Magic may have some rather substantial raw additions/modifications, and bulk production might be a good candidate for "outsourcing". As with all outsourcing, the task has to be easy enough to describe in sufficient detail that people without intimate knowledge of the surrounding logic can do the work without much additional guidance.
True, that work (myth & magic) would on the other hand probably be a lot more fun than researching and just typing in loads of real world data, while also requiring some creativity and decision-making that might not be good to leave to the community (unless you're thinking of something different and more specific then what I assumed).
Also are mounts something we can look forward to before the big wait?
With tribute being offered from subjugated sites now, will that translate to recieving tribute and/or taxes from sites which belong to a land-holder position or monarch in your fort? Can we recieve slaves or war prisoners if our civ permits them?
Do you think these items would be private property of that noble or fort property? Would they hoard items/creaturea they like and distribute the rest?
Might we also see tribute for heroic deeds performed by one of our dwarves, say slaying a beast that killed many people?
I am pretty sure the answer will be 'in the law, status and property' release in a few years time. ;)
But i want details about what toady has planned, of course!
Any plane related stuff is likely to involve map structure rewrites. If that's the case they'll most probably be pushed to the other side of the save compatibility breaking stuff changes, as that's a clear save break candidate, as well as map rewriting in itself may break whatever minor additions are made just before the breaking, in which case Toady will most likely hold off on it on order not to waste efforts implementing stuff that soon will have to be rewritten/adjusted anyway.
- Do you personally see your current development progress in this quarter as the unofficial hurrying of the 'Hill Dwarf' arc forward before the Magic Arc or do you think you are being conservative with saving advanced development of the Hill Dwarf arc for later?
Just some questions bouncing around in my mind, its easy to get excited about the new rush of features (and the tinkering process of cleaning up the bugs after them) I may have answered my own question in a sort of way when i consider that the development page are only 'candidates' but i don't think the community would be too upset with establishing some worldbuilding before the maelstrom of procedural generation bugs from magic touching most of the game systems. :D
- Are we likely to see some underground plane interactions & the Deep-Dwarves this cycle before the Magic Arc?
~snip~Any plane related stuff is likely to involve map structure rewrites. If that's the case they'll most probably be pushed to the other side of the save compatibility breaking stuff changes, as that's a clear save break candidate, as well as map rewriting in itself may break whatever minor additions are made just before the breaking, in which case Toady will most likely hold off on it on order not to waste efforts implementing stuff that soon will have to be rewritten/adjusted anyway.
1. It was stated on the development page that our adventurers could receive support for artifact quests, what would this support entail?Here's an answer from an earlier FotF reply (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7553641;topicseen#msg7553641):
QuoteWhat was going to be covered in the dev item "support for the journey" (seems to have been skipped for this time?)? Is that something like hiring hill dwarves and such to assist? Or sending ahead word for supplies to be prepared?Yeah, we were hoping to have some helpful, say, hearthpeople go along, and perhaps give you some free access to food/equipment etc. We wanted it to be unlike the typical we-won't-help-you-but-please-save-the-world quest givers, but we didn't get there. The ducks don't seem to line up well on anything even tangentially related to economic stuff, because there are some formalities missing and everything ends up being too much of a too-large placeholder. Got closest to having helpers, but something came up even in that case. Don't recall what. We'll get there eventually.
You talked at lot earlier about a myth editor. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean an actual program that allows us to modify the actual mythology of a generated world, a set of world-gen parameters manually entered in prior to initiating the myth generation or an actual script internal to the DF program which takes moddable raws as input and 'edits' the default mythology script's output. I would prefer the latter arrangement, so we could define that for instance the moon will originate from the sun, but the generator will determine randomly exactly how that happened.Editing myths will be part of the world editor, which is for creating fixed worlds so you could create middle-earth, populate it with all of Tolkien's creation myth, historical characters, rings, silmarils, sites like Moria and Minas Tirith, etc.
So about villains.Hmm. As of now the only real "world-ending" threat would be goblins conquering sites and eventually taking over the world through wars, but that's not exactly something that happens quickly. Making a big enough hole in Hell for all the clowns to crawl out is something that should be fairly world-ending, but it isn't yet. If we want villains that adventurers can Save the World from, maybe the circus is where that can be accomplished before the myth and magic arc.
Does this include self-motivated "supervillains" that operate at world-level? As it stands, the goblin civ leader-type demons and very old vampires/necromancers are the closest we have to what I'd call true 'villains', though the planar stuff and magic release will probably introduce more. Megabeasts and titans are closer to rampaging wildlife, lacking greater motives. Thieves and even deadly ambushes or sieges are typically relevant to a single site, they're enemies but not villains with distinct motives. That's my own sense of semantics, however: A villain is a sapient character with a motive, rather than a beast or a minion.
For example, an elf that sets out to turn two human civs against each other using cover identities and assassinations.
Making a big enough hole in Hell for all the clowns to crawl out is something that should be fairly world-ending, but it isn't yet.
It does, admittedly, seem more like a "local, stoppable" apocalypse scenario though.
Do you feel confident in your foward planning with this development step and ways that players may attempt to break the game with forced administrators or self-founded hillock sites in ways such as sending a troupe of half-pet half/citizen tamed gremlins from vanilla or modded creatures to be the the population or forced administrator?Multiple sized citizenry is rather annoying when it comes to clothing, at least if you want to outfit them with masterworks, as there is no way to control the production of items when it comes to quality. This is mitigated to some extent by the failure of "over clothing" and clothing items in uniforms (excluding underwear and cloaks) to work properly (as in: they actually wear the full uniform, rather than just a sock on one foot and a boot on the other, skipping the rest of the equipment for that body part pair). It doesn't help with shaped clothing items that block helmets either, as even if you don't produce those yourself, your greedy little buggers will be lightning quick to raid the battlefields for them. However, the production issues for armor worsened (in this sense: the overall concept is sound) as armor wear was introduced, as before that you just had to produce your full set of masterworks items once, while now you have to juggle replacements.
Im aware i asked a similar question on creature migrants gained anysuchow way in august last year (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7526005#msg7526005), in regards to making single non-standard and definitely player induced creature majority minor settlements for migrants over time in the strange way non-standard pops cross over from animals to people or arrive outside the fortress as adventurers if you wanted a more typical human only hillock full of ex-bards. But it's always interesting to hear about your opinions on the feasability of features as we get closer to the eventual goal and the current status of the systems are brought more into focus.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sitting around the meeting hall with all my barons, including the count of Gremlinburg trying to raise funds because wanton abandon with mischeviously pulling levers all the time native to their little race has caused the entire settlement to collapse into ruin for the fifth time in the last 20 years.
Since the mortality rate for my inexperienced tacticians is the same as their underlings:I imagine these are more likely to be part of the about-to-be-introduced armies. Raiding squads are pretty minor in comparison.
Will we be able to set squad leaders to not fight?
Or at least not right away, only in the case of losing or somehow forced to, by bad circumstances.
Also, because I would like raids to be a heavier project:
Will there be support roles for raids, like haulers, pack animals and field medics for distant expeditions?
1. How diverse will we be able to make our adventuring parties? For example could someone make a party of a human, an elf, a dwarf, a goblin, an animal person and a gorlack? Also can we make them of various statuses like having a demigod, hero and peasant in the same party?
1. Can we expect procedurally generated recipe books and bar games before the magic release?No. They were part of taverns that were put off until tavern like things are looked at again (most likely economy, because why gamble or make unique meals if there's no profit to be made).
Next is magic (after the next 6 months of bugs, suggestions and army stuff is finished).
That's what we're in at the moment for the next 6 months. Armies, villains, etc. The dev page was updated a couple of weeks ago.QuoteNext is magic (after the next 6 months of bugs, suggestions and army stuff is finished).
Before that, a short arc about Villains & Plots, if i understood correctly the GDC talk staff
Probably asked before, but my seach fu is weak...
Do you consider any system in the game as completely done (apart from bugs, etc)? Which ones?
Think Toady said recently that needs a rewrite too (probably at the same time as mythgen fantasy rocks as that'll break save compatibility anyhow).Probably asked before, but my seach fu is weak...
Do you consider any system in the game as completely done (apart from bugs, etc)? Which ones?
Pretty sure the geology. Myth will add fantasy geologies, but the mundane geology is done.
Pretty sure the geology. Myth will add fantasy geologies, but the mundane geology is done.
1.It was mentioned in the upcoming feature section that adventurers could gain positions of nobility and engage in intrigue and conspiracy and whatnot. As political marriages are a major part of many fantasy settings, could we expect some sort of rudimentary courting or marriage system in the near future?
2. Will we be seeing any new civilizations pop up any time soon, like above-ground tribes or independent bandit entities?
Well, I'd say mixed racial marriages are currently not implemented/supported by DF, but if I understand it correctly, it's more a matter of figuring out to handle half breed offspring (and implement it) than a world thing, as I think at least one Threetoe story (Cado's Magical Journey?) has a human mage hooking up with a dwarf.1.It was mentioned in the upcoming feature section that adventurers could gain positions of nobility and engage in intrigue and conspiracy and whatnot. As political marriages are a major part of many fantasy settings, could we expect some sort of rudimentary courting or marriage system in the near future?
2. Will we be seeing any new civilizations pop up any time soon, like above-ground tribes or independent bandit entities?
Limey green please, no dark goblin greens.
Mixed racial marriages are not really a thing in DF (in terms of marrying for love & family), it'd have to be with a dwarf leader (typically) or dwarven civilisations if that's the scope you are thinking of, which may be impractical but maybe possible if you have a specifically groomed non-dwarf candidate or a non-dwarf king/noble. Not sure what Toady would be saying though about that honestly.
Necromancers already have a site group name funnily enough, so i guess they are a faction 'of sorts' introduced but unless toady decides to follow up on a rework of how the bandit & necro tower sites are built up and maybe gets a little bit too carried away exploring that i guess not too much will happen in that area outside of the development candidate brief. No dedicated necro faction i guess.
Assuming it's not doing this already, perhaps it is:
Are you going to use the new detailed battle system from raids in regular worldgen? Or would that slow it down too much? Would be nice to see some of the new info on superior tactics, terrain and such in historical battles. I suppose hist-figs don't have generated equipment in worldgen, do they?
Yes, I saw that. Since someone thought to report it as a bug, I wondered if the new system was actually being used but reports weren't happening or if the new system simply isn't being used. The report seems inconclusive either way but I assume it's just that the system's not being used. Hence my question.Assuming it's not doing this already, perhaps it is:
Are you going to use the new detailed battle system from raids in regular worldgen? Or would that slow it down too much? Would be nice to see some of the new info on superior tactics, terrain and such in historical battles. I suppose hist-figs don't have generated equipment in worldgen, do they?
It isn't. See issue here: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10664 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10664)
1.It was mentioned in the upcoming feature section that adventurers could gain positions of nobility and engage in intrigue and conspiracy and whatnot. As political marriages are a major part of many fantasy settings, could we expect some sort of rudimentary courting or marriage system in the near future?
2. Will we be seeing any new civilizations pop up any time soon, like above-ground tribes or independent bandit entities?
Limey green please, no dark goblin greens.
Mixed racial marriages are not really a thing in DF (in terms of marrying for love & family), it'd have to be with a dwarf leader (typically) or dwarven civilisations if that's the scope you are thinking of, which may be impractical but maybe possible if you have a specifically groomed non-dwarf candidate or a non-dwarf king/noble. Not sure what Toady would be saying though about that honestly.
Necromancers already have a site group name funnily enough, so i guess they are a faction 'of sorts' introduced but unless toady decides to follow up on a rework of how the bandit & necro tower sites are built up and maybe gets a little bit too carried away exploring that i guess not too much will happen in that area outside of the development candidate brief. No dedicated necro faction i guess.
With minor modding the current game allows fort mode to be played with humans, goblins, elves and even kobolds. Presumably this hasn't made it into vanilla because they aren't as feature complete as dwarves and not yet differentiated enough. Is the work around the myth generator likely to change this? I assume some work will need to go into shoe-horning randomly generated high-magic-world races into fortress mode and am wondering if you think this will end up incorporating the original races as playable in vanilla at the same time or if they will wait for their own specific releases focused on the features you want present before making them playable?A completely mundane world has only humans, so unless those worlds would be playable only in adventure mode (which seems rather unlikely) humans will have to be fleshed out, and you have the same issue at the chaotic end of the spectrum. Thus, at least one race ought to be playable in fortress mode for every setting of parameters, and preferably all of the "civilized" ones should be. The completely mundane setting can be handled by hand crafting humans, but the chaotic end would need a high degree of procedural adaptation to the world/race properties, and if that issue is handled there, it ought to be possible to apply it throughout to all races. Even so, that might not rule out a situation where the functionality remains geared towards the current dwarves, with logical options being absent/not yet implemented for other races. The current modding option is to create different looking dwarves, possibly with some functionality removed, but little added (shaping trees into housing for elves, vitamin D deficiency for humans and elves when spending too much time away from the sun...).
I wanna add onto the above-ground tribe question - are there any plans for additional tokens that would allow megabeasts and sentient wild creatures to spawn with weaponry, whether they are named artifacts or just mundane equipment? It would certainly allow some of the semimegas, especially the minotaurs, to be a lot more formidable - along with that aboveground animal people could spawn with clothing instead of being nudist tribes.
2. Will we be seeing any new civilizations pop up any time soon, like above-ground tribes or independent bandit entities?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
He did actually mention mundane adventurer only worlds. But it might just have been pondering.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a good point about purely mundane worlds having only humans and thus necessitating that they be playable in fortmode. :) It probably should have occurred to me before I asked the question. I guess as ever Toady will have to stay disciplined and be wary of chasing down thousands of related tangents.
He did actually mention mundane adventurer only worlds. But it might just have been pondering.
Meh, since "adventurer" is about to include leading armies into battle and tactical skirmishing, don't think it's too bad of a thing.
Armies is the point of the next 6 months of updates according to the Bay12 report (plus villains - PC Gamer).
He did actually mention mundane adventurer only worlds. But it might just have been pondering.
Meh, since "adventurer" is about to include leading armies into battle and tactical skirmishing, don't think it's too bad of a thing.
Candidates. Candidates, people, some things may or may not appear. We don't even have a army to command in any particular mode just to outline the distance between here and there, but we do have militia squads, which practically are little militarized companion troupes of sorts.
Will we be able to interact with deep dwarves (dwarves living in Mountain halls) as well? The dev plans for the near future exclusively talk about ”hill dwarves” which I assume only means dwarves living in hillocks.
- Are we likely to see some subterranean map interface & the Deep-Dwarves this cycle before the Magic Arc?
I don't know of course, but Toady's mentioned that the underground is in a really bad state and needs to be overhauled a lot before the underground civs get any love. While I think he was talking about batman at the time, I imagine this might effect the birth of deep dwarves too. Still, let's see what happens. For army raising and such, they're mostly abstract like hill dwarves so maybe it'll be OK.Quote from: FantasticDorfWill we be able to interact with deep dwarves (dwarves living in Mountain halls) as well? The dev plans for the near future exclusively talk about ”hill dwarves” which I assume only means dwarves living in hillocks.
- Are we likely to see some subterranean map interface & the Deep-Dwarves this cycle before the Magic Arc?
I've already asked this question previously in the thread for next month's upcoming reply so i'll lump it together for you and Toady's benefit. Heres me hoping that deep dwarves don't slide away as a development goal entirely in favour of procedural races before everything is shook up so violently by the magic arc generator's random structure.
I have a few questions about Adventure Mode and Magic I would like to ask.First, you should define a timeline. "In the future", yes all of that is up for happening. No concrete plans for the far future of course.
*Will Adventurers be able to raise, and command armys to attack, raid, destory, or take over town/cites/forts/etc.?
*Will Adventurers that control a town/city/fort/etc... be able to issue commands to the city to focus on one thing (Like trading, building, expanding, or training a army)?
*Will Adventurers beable to research magic on their own, and be able to enchant objects with said magic?
*How Powerful can an Adventurer become magic wise? Will it be based on a stat?, and if so can they ascend to godlike magical abilities, or will there be a upper limit?
Because it hasn't been asked for this release yet:Do you mean the bandit groups and 'better necromancer towers'? I don't see "rebel groups" mentioned.
Will rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.
Because it hasn't been asked for this release yet:Do you mean the bandit groups and 'better necromancer towers'? I don't see "rebel groups" mentioned.
Will rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.
Specifically which portions of the rest of the Improved Sieges notes (besides prisoner stuff) are you leaning towards leaving us with before the Big Wait?
Quote from: RubikIn the actualized development log there's ''ability to interrogate prisioners(both modes)
Can this be understood as that we'll finally get torture and good cop bad cop in fort mode?Quote from: BeagOne of the things mentioned as a candidate for a pre myth and magic update feature is interrogating prisoners in both modes, in adventure mode will we have the option of using non lethal beatings to make a prisoner talk in addition to verbal coercion?
Quote from: AsinCould you please elaborate on "adventurer party support" in the "Improved Character Creation" section of the development page?Quote from: BeagHow diverse will we be able to make our adventuring parties? For example could someone make a party of a human, an elf, a dwarf, a goblin, an animal person and a gorlack? Also can we make them of various statuses like having a demigod, hero and peasant in the same party?
How could "Reflecting on negative circumstances that were missed while drunk" work given that drunkenness is a syndrome? Some sort of syndrome effect?
Are you planning on expanding the dark pits/fortresses, hillocks, hamlets, and smaller forest retreats to have similar "facilities" as towns do?
I notice dark pits sites have taverns, libraries and so on listed in legends, but they don't actually exist in the game proper. I don't recall seeing those abstract locations for hillocks, small forest retreats and hamlets, but those could definitely use having small versions of those. Hillocks and dark pits in particular seem like they need some improvements, considering they seem to lack armory areas, and drinking mounds dont even have furniture or booze.
Secondly, is the small size of current mead halls intentional? I noticed that after 44 they're a lot smaller than pre-44, and don't seem to ever go as many z-levels down as before.
All this launching of wars, attacking, assasinating and interrogation of gorlak prisoners is fantastic stuff, but there's an issue with dwarf ethics/values right now which makes npc dwarf sites never, ever launch attacks against their enemies.
I know it's not hardcoded because I copy/pasted my 'bad dwarf' modded race (who were attacking in worldgen) values/ethics into the dwarf entity and they started going to war. And of course regular dwarves will attack players who provoke them right now.
So, I guess my question is, are you going to nudge npc dwarf sites to be a bit more aggressive during wars this time around? It gets kind of lonely fighting by yourself.
Do the plans for permanent changes to occur to myth-level elements during regular play include changes to races? It's a fairly common fantasy theme after all to have races be cursed and/or corrupted and become dark elves and whatnot.
Will combat speed be slowed slightly to allow players to look at fights better? I notice that once over 10 units get into a fight I don’t care enough to look which really hurts things imho, idk how much this would affect things but maybe a slight increase in body part HP or lowering of weapon damage? Or perhaps is this exactly how you want it to work as is and the showing of combat info will get better at some point?
Will you be able to read books in fortress mode eventually? Or even write the books?
Will we ever see larger shields introduced to the main game? Even just a tower shield that reduces speed slightly but has a higher chance to block would be acceptable (then you have buckler for speed, tower shield for defense, and shield for inbetween
Will we ever see a hobbits type fantasy race? More peaceful little guys that just farm and try and stay out of the way?
The last section in the starting scenarios mentions the relationship between the fort and hill/deep dwarves. Will we get to see the dwarves living around our forts demand things in return for their tribute? E.g. will they come to the fort for justice in disputes, or maybe as temporary refugees fleeing from an invading army? The theoretical idea of being surrounded by farming hillocks and have the fort focus only on government, mining & warfare could be really good!
The 'medical improvements' listed in the dev log are for adv. mode only, or we also are gonna get improvements in fort mode healthcare?
Could you elaborate on the type of improvements you've thought?
All the updates recently related to the army arc make me really excited because I love how we can now interact with the world in meaningful ways. Is real-time battles with the full glory and gore of the combat system one of those things that will wait until the map rewrite? It's a bit silly maybe but I love thinking of how DF could rise to the top in yet another gaming genre as the best RTS / strategy game once the army arc gets more and more realized, albeit just in small steps for now. (Total War but in a procedurally generated world with detailed body simulation anyone?)
Will the medical improvements to the military system extend to animals, pets, and mounts? To fortress mode so dwarves will operate a proper veterinary hospital service? Civilization Ethics behind putting down a pet or mount which is too badly wounded to live?
If the player can give items to companions, and mounts are kind-of those, would this allow player-controlled pack animals to exist? Mounts with war gear like armor/uniform? How will this be integrated into the military screen?
Finally fixing the "Amphibian mount drowns their rider" problem?
+ Will mounts/pets have to be fed by the player or are they abstracted to handle it themselves while traveling? Will fortress mode animals be feedable, finally, to avoid starvation while the fortress guard rides their war horses through the stone floor halls?
1. Will armies be able to defect/rebel/desert/turn to banditry under the appropriate circumstances?
2. Similarly, once we are able to appoint administrators to conquered sites, will the sites be able to rebel?
3. Will we be able to send messengers to nearby sites to request military assistance in case of a siege? Or request additional troops from the Mountainhome to garrison the fortress?
4. Will passing armies sometimes request temporary hospitality at your fortress, with the ability to accept or refuse?
5. Will we be able to yield the fortress without a fight to invaders? Related, will there be mechanics for your own fort being occupied (such as a hostile garrison being put in place)?
Can you elaborate on the current efficiency of the program in terms of world building? Would you remark as to the feasibility of separating the world building part of DF into a separate slave-executeable which we could put on servers to allow worlds to be built by faster computers (probaby maintained by the community)?
How do you intend to make procedurally generated magic become "thematic"? Most fantasy works organize their magic around one or more themes, each theme having all magic working similarly. For example, some split magic into elements, or into schools. Brandon Sanderson is famous for particularly intricate magic systems... such as all magic requiring the user to ingest and "burn" metal inside their stomachs to cast spells. All fantasy magics that are more than fairytales have SOME organization to their magic.
I presume spheres would be involved. Will the RAWs have to expand to have lists of ways the spheres can influence magic? I know the myths will direct how magic works... but coherence is important! If a fire spirit is the source of magic in the world, how will the game know to make fire always part of the cost, or the effect, of the magic?
Will there be any limit to how powerful magic is?
Have you considered asking the community to perform some bulk tasks where someone would take on the task to organize the collection of the results to return it to you in a "finished" shape?
With the work on sieges and raids, would you consider revising the old wield check bug, so that at least some of my dwarves can have mauls?
Also are mounts something we can look forward to before the big wait?
Why does the off-map fighting code use the highest tactician skill and not the one from the commanding officer?
Is the current tribute system the final solution, or are we going to get a more hostility friendly "pay or die" system?
I think thats it for now. Also, I really hope you go through with adding a messenger system, so that there is delay between order and execution. Actually, that triggers another question:
Will Messengers be a profession for themself, or are they just gonna be millitary people?
With tribute being offered from subjugated sites now, will that translate to recieving tribute and/or taxes from sites which belong to a land-holder position or monarch in your fort? Can we recieve slaves or war prisoners if our civ permits them?
Do you think these items would be private property of that noble or fort property? Would they hoard items/creaturea they like and distribute the rest?
Might we also see tribute for heroic deeds performed by one of our dwarves, say slaying a beast that killed many people?
2. On the updated development page one of the pre magic release candidates is showing personal relationships with people. What personal relation ships that you can think of do you think you will include before the myth and magic arc and what effects would these relationships have on gameplay if any?
3. Another thing listed on the updated development page is the ability to acquire positions in civilizations, how would our adventurer's go about acquiring these positions and what game play effects could they have if any?
4. Finally yet another thing listed on the updated development page is medical improvements for adventure mode, what ways of tending to our adventurers medically do you have in mind? Furthermore will our adventurers be able to acquire skills related to medical care?
Quote from: FantasticDorfDo you personally see your current development progress in this quarter as the unofficial hurrying of the 'Hill Dwarf' arc forward before the Magic Arc or do you think you are being conservative with saving advanced development of the Hill Dwarf arc for later?
Are we likely to see some subterranean map interface & the Deep-Dwarves this cycle before the Magic Arc?Quote from: Daniel the FinlanderWill we be able to interact with deep dwarves (dwarves living in Mountain halls) as well? The dev plans for the near future exclusively talk about ”hill dwarves” which I assume only means dwarves living in hillocks.
What was the first thing that came to mind that led to the player being unable to exchange items with children NPCs in adventure mode?
You talked at lot earlier about a myth editor. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean an actual program that allows us to modify the actual mythology of a generated world, a set of world-gen parameters manually entered in prior to initiating the myth generation or an actual script internal to the DF program which takes moddable raws as input and 'edits' the default mythology script's output. I would prefer the latter arrangement, so we could define that for instance the moon will originate from the sun, but the generator will determine randomly exactly how that happened.
1. In the list of candidates for pre-magic release features one of them is our adventurers giving tactical commands to their companions, what sort of commands might we be able to give our companions in battle? Would it be just basic stuff like attack or hold or do you have more in mind?
2. Another thing listed among the candidates is pets and mounts for our adventurers, would we only be able to acquire these pets and mounts at character creation or could we tame creatures out in the world post character creation to be our pets and mounts?
3. Will skills relating to animal handling and riding be added to account for the new pets and mounts?
4. Going back a bit, in Cado's Magical Journey it was stated in the mechanics review at the end that becoming corrupted past a certain threshold might grant you special powers, would these corruptions related powers be listed in the myth generator?
So about villains.
Does this include self-motivated "supervillains" that operate at world-level? As it stands, the goblin civ leader-type demons and very old vampires/necromancers are the closest we have to what I'd call true 'villains', though the planar stuff and magic release will probably introduce more. Megabeasts and titans are closer to rampaging wildlife, lacking greater motives. Thieves and even deadly ambushes or sieges are typically relevant to a single site, they're enemies but not villains with distinct motives. That's my own sense of semantics, however: A villain is a sapient character with a motive, rather than a beast or a minion.
For example, an elf that sets out to turn two human civs against each other using cover identities and assassinations.
In the Creation myth and magic systems dev log you set a point for ancient races and their actions, do you intend to allow for large gaps in time between creation and play (something on the scale of 5000 after creation) - perhaps a length of time we can control as a slider when specifying our world whether we'd want to play just after creation or ages beyond.
In my mind it would use unspecified periods of time, with intermediate ages between creation and play.
Onto something slightly more relevant to current development
Would the 'Return of minor disruptive behavior and arrests' point enable us as fortress overseer to arrest citizens and visitors as we please?
1. Is making latched attacks(specifically bites) interact with armor layers again any where on the radar for the near future in bug fixing rounds? Right now an armless, legless elf is more dangerous than an limbed one. They also don't seem to respect armor deflections.
2. Now that armor can break, is there any plan to change how force penetrates armor? right now if armor is pierced,
the attack loses about 5% of it's force. This lead to all armor layers on a part tending to break at once. Maybe subtracting the value required to penetrate the layer from the remaining force?
Will a retired player fortress accept a tribute demand? What happens on unretire? Is there a check from the original demanders to notice if tribute isn't coming any more? Will they go to war over it?
Do you feel confident in your foward planning with this development step and ways that players may attempt to break the game with forced administrators or self-founded hillock sites in ways such as sending a troupe of half-pet half/citizen tamed gremlins from vanilla or modded creatures to be the the population or forced administrator?
Since the mortality rate for my inexperienced tacticians is the same as their underlings:
Will we be able to set squad leaders to not fight?
Or at least not right away, only in the case of losing or somehow forced to, by bad circumstances.
Also, because I would like raids to be a heavier project:
Will there be support roles for raids, like haulers, pack animals and field medics for distant expeditions?
Now, for something more general:
Any plans for using Unicode characters, in interface or for tiles?
With the Map-rewrite on the Horizon can we expect more nonmagical features as well? Stuff like Tablemountains, proper Canyons, postglacial landscapes with houssized boulders and the like that (iirc) planed once upon a time?
Also now that we have a worldscreen can we expect to be able to build roads and/or tunnels to other places?
Are there any ideas that you had begun to implement in the past that were so difficult or gigantic that they were abandoned or put on the permanent backburner?
Do you consider any system in the game as completely done (apart from bugs, etc)? Which ones?
Quote from: squamous1.It was mentioned in the upcoming feature section that adventurers could gain positions of nobility and engage in intrigue and conspiracy and whatnot. As political marriages are a major part of many fantasy settings, could we expect some sort of rudimentary courting or marriage system in the near future?
2. Will we be seeing any new civilizations pop up any time soon, like above-ground tribes or independent bandit entities?Quote from: ZM5I wanna add onto the above-ground tribe question - are there any plans for additional tokens that would allow megabeasts and sentient wild creatures to spawn with weaponry, whether they are named artifacts or just mundane equipment? It would certainly allow some of the semimegas, especially the minotaurs, to be a lot more formidable - along with that aboveground animal people could spawn with clothing instead of being nudist tribes.
Also, were we to see aboveground tribes of animal people, how would they be handled? Would they be considered minor entities, similar to the underground animal people currently in, or would they have a separate system? I'm mostly concerned for modding purposes since IIRC there was some issue with underground animal people where if they're considered parts of these tribes it also doesn't let them join civilizations and be playable in that way. I don't remember if that still holds true, admittedly.
Are you going to use the new detailed battle system from raids in regular worldgen? Or would that slow it down too much? Would be nice to see some of the new info on superior tactics, terrain and such in historical battles. I suppose hist-figs don't have generated equipment in worldgen, do they?
With minor modding the current game allows fort mode to be played with humans, goblins, elves and even kobolds. Presumably this hasn't made it into vanilla because they aren't as feature complete as dwarves and not yet differentiated enough. Is the work around the myth generator likely to change this? I assume some work will need to go into shoe-horning randomly generated high-magic-world races into fortress mode and am wondering if you think this will end up incorporating the original races as playable in vanilla at the same time or if they will wait for their own specific releases focused on the features you want present before making them playable?
*Will Adventurers be able to raise, and command armys to attack, raid, destory, or take over town/cites/forts/etc.?
*Will Adventurers that control a town/city/fort/etc... be able to issue commands to the city to focus on one thing (Like trading, building, expanding, or training a army)?
*Will Adventurers beable to research magic on their own, and be able to enchant objects with said magic?
*How Powerful can an Adventurer become magic wise? Will it be based on a stat?, and if so can they ascend to godlike magical abilities, or will there be a upper limit?
Will outsider adventures be able to make up there own poetry, dance, and musical styles at some point in the near future?
Will rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.
Ah, I remember at some point saying I'd look at this, but it has sunk into the general notes. I'll check it for next release. To clarify again, this is after wars have already started, they don't participate?
According to Legends info (via, Legends Viewer - the diagrams are useful), when a Dwarf civ is in a war, they'll only ever be the defender (except in special cases caused by player raids). Looking at some wars right now with some 20-30 battles, Dwarf is never the attacker.
Now, some of those battles seem to involve clashing armies meeting half-way between sites, so they're not just sitting at home taking sieges. Maybe it just defaults them to "defender" because they didn't start the war overall? There are certainly no 'dwarf attacks site' events though.
Quote from: Random_DragonWhat was the first thing that came to mind that led to the player being unable to exchange items with children NPCs in adventure mode?
I don't recall what came up first. All the reasons you listed were reason enough, though!
"Will semi-intelligent combatant's role in conflicts be more streamlined by the time of better integration into raiding and armies of war animals and mounts?"Trolls and ogres wearing armor and wielding weapons is not odd. In all cases I've seen it they have full two part names and a military title (the ogre was a bowman, which is a role where its physical strength is really useful...). One theory I've seen is that they are ones who have gained enough training (becoming hist figs?) is a previous conflict to be upgraded from the "recruit" level (note that unarmed and unarmored "civilized" race recruits aren't uncommon in goblin armies). Beak dog warriors is off, though (I've never seen those myself).
I imagine this to be slightly different to the previous question on 'support roles' because already, goblins already employ trolls for off map conflicts implicitly of virtually any size without having to need to add any tags onto the creature themselves. It doesn't always turn out smoothly and you hear rumors about oddities like some trolls appearing wearing iron armor & others of goblins riding on their backs without much consistency as what to expect through a mixture of possibly buggy application.
Trolls and ogres wearing armor and wielding weapons is not odd. In all cases I've seen it they have full two part names and a military title (the ogre was a bowman, which is a role where its physical strength is really useful...). One theory I've seen is that they are ones who have gained enough training (becoming hist figs?) is a previous conflict to be upgraded from the "recruit" level (note that unarmed and unarmored "civilized" race recruits aren't uncommon in goblin armies). Beak dog warriors is off, though (I've never seen those myself).
About villains and the necessity to be intelligent to be a real villains (in opposition to "beasts"), I remember that Toady told someday that dragons and to a certain extent MB and titans could be intelligent and speak. So I suppose that could include them, too.
Regarding the alligator or other predatory animals getting recruit titles, I'd think its related to them just getting kills in worldgen, which comes with them also getting a name.
About villains and the necessity to be intelligent to be a real villains (in opposition to "beasts"), I remember that Toady told someday that dragons and to a certain extent MB and titans could be intelligent and speak. So I suppose that could include them, too.*Fixed bug where dragons would sometimes put on a beard and infiltrate dwarven society to spread disorder.
Regarding the alligator or other predatory animals getting recruit titles, I'd think its related to them just getting kills in worldgen, which comes with them also getting a name.
Don't really have an explanation for why some of the trolls/ogres end up having only a single name and others have both a name and a last name, along with armor. I suppose it'd be related to SLOW_LEARNER, leading to them being treated as some form of livestock, aside from the few individuals that get higher weapon skills.
I'm mostly thinking that because of some old sieges I had from some of my modded races - for example in this one (https://i.imgur.com/R4VQlEw.png), the regular ogres were a caste with slow learner, but as you can see some only have a first name while others have both a first name and a last name along with the recruit title. Same thing with the fel brutes in this screencap (https://i.imgur.com/XX0zEpK.png) - they were also a slow learner caste. I can't really explain why the named "puffalo recruit" is a thing though, considering they're just wild animals.
The reason for most the differences that they are defined as pets in the entity, it does not have anything to do with their tokens.You missed my point - they DIDN'T have pet tokens, and weren't defined as pets in the entity - they were a caste of the civs main race which just had SLOW_LEARNER. The "unarmed, unarmored, no last name" thing didn't happen with the non-slow learner castes. Civilized creatures tend to have both a first and last name regardless of their kills - obviously this didn't happen with those slow learner castes - some seemingly were treated the same way as trolls, others were normal recruits. So that's why I'm thinking there's something up with the slow learner token.
You missed my point - they DIDN'T have pet tokens, and weren't defined as pets in the entity - they were a caste of the civs main race which just had SLOW_LEARNER.
QuoteThe reason for most the differences that they are defined as pets in the entity, it does not have anything to do with their tokens.You missed my point - they DIDN'T have pet tokens, and weren't defined as pets in the entity - they were a caste of the civs main race which just had SLOW_LEARNER. The "unarmed, unarmored, no last name" thing didn't happen with the non-slow learner castes. Civilized creatures tend to have both a first and last name regardless of their kills - obviously this didn't happen with those slow learner castes - some seemingly were treated the same way as trolls, others were normal recruits. So that's why I'm thinking there's something up with the slow learner token.
In the Great Crundle Encroachment of 140, a horde of crundles were harassing dwarves peacefully harvesting the caverns of all their valuable resources. As the military thundered onto the scene to butcher the fiends, a lone Gem Cutter decided to join the fray and cornered a single crundle in the dark. What started out as a wrestling match with the occasional biting turned decidedly nastier when the crundle exhausted. What followed were 3 combat log pages of the Gem Cutter gouging the crundle's eyes out, over and over, with the occasional punch to the head. Even after falling exhausted from his efforts, he would arise and repeat the vicious torture. The horror ended when a passing soldier saw the scuffle and promptly separated the crundle's head from its body.
Choking is already part of unarmed combat.QuoteIn the Great Crundle Encroachment of 140, a horde of crundles were harassing dwarves peacefully harvesting the caverns of all their valuable resources. As the military thundered onto the scene to butcher the fiends, a lone Gem Cutter decided to join the fray and cornered a single crundle in the dark. What started out as a wrestling match with the occasional biting turned decidedly nastier when the crundle exhausted. What followed were 3 combat log pages of the Gem Cutter gouging the crundle's eyes out, over and over, with the occasional punch to the head. Even after falling exhausted from his efforts, he would arise and repeat the vicious torture. The horror ended when a passing soldier saw the scuffle and promptly separated the crundle's head from its body.
Any chance choking out an opponent could be added to the combat code for unarmed combat?
Choking is already part of unarmed combat.
When is that quote from? Never seen repeated eye gouging in fortress mode. Once an enemy is down it gets hit in the head until it's dead (or until the attacker collapses exhausted).
Isn't it mainly large beasts and crocodiles which can withstand thousands of repeated non-helmeted blows to the head? Not sure how well strangling a crocodile or a hippo would be (or indeed a crundle if the sketches online are anything to go by).Choking is already part of unarmed combat.
When is that quote from? Never seen repeated eye gouging in fortress mode. Once an enemy is down it gets hit in the head until it's dead (or until the attacker collapses exhausted).
What they're getting at is they're suggesting that unarmed AI should be smart enough to figure out that, if punching an unconscious enemy in the head is doing jack shit, they should be able to switch to grabbing the throat (when the target has a throat) and strangling instead. Like how the AI will acknowledge that helmets are an impediment to head blows.
Isn't it mainly large beasts and crocodiles which can withstand thousands of repeated non-helmeted blows to the head? Not sure how well strangling a crocodile or a hippo would be (or indeed a crundle if the sketches online are anything to go by).
3 combat log pages of the Gem Cutter gouging the crundle's eyes out, over and over, with the occasional punch to the head.Isn't it mainly large beasts and crocodiles which can withstand thousands of repeated non-helmeted blows to the head? Not sure how well strangling a crocodile or a hippo would be (or indeed a crundle if the sketches online are anything to go by).
As the quote that started this discussion implies, sometimes punching a critter's head in can fail hilariously even from smaller things like crundles.
Choking is already part of unarmed combat.
When is that quote from? Never seen repeated eye gouging in fortress mode. Once an enemy is down it gets hit in the head until it's dead (or until the attacker collapses exhausted).
What they're getting at is they're suggesting that unarmed AI should be smart enough to figure out that, if punching an unconscious enemy in the head is doing jack shit, they should be able to switch to grabbing the throat (when the target has a throat) and strangling instead. Like how the AI will acknowledge that helmets are an impediment to head blows.
Units have removed helmets before attacking the head of unconscious opponents for over a year.
Choking is already part of unarmed combat.
When is that quote from? Never seen repeated eye gouging in fortress mode. Once an enemy is down it gets hit in the head until it's dead (or until the attacker collapses exhausted).
What they're getting at is they're suggesting that unarmed AI should be smart enough to figure out that, if punching an unconscious enemy in the head is doing jack shit, they should be able to switch to grabbing the throat (when the target has a throat) and strangling instead. Like how the AI will acknowledge that helmets are an impediment to head blows.
Units have removed helmets before attacking the head of unconscious opponents for over a year.
Choking is already part of unarmed combat.
When is that quote from? Never seen repeated eye gouging in fortress mode. Once an enemy is down it gets hit in the head until it's dead (or until the attacker collapses exhausted).
What they're getting at is they're suggesting that unarmed AI should be smart enough to figure out that, if punching an unconscious enemy in the head is doing jack shit, they should be able to switch to grabbing the throat (when the target has a throat) and strangling instead. Like how the AI will acknowledge that helmets are an impediment to head blows.
The relevant personality facets are the same as humans. So far it seems to be that they are just out-populated, and think they are going to lose. A few overcame the risk rolls all the way up until it did the fortification calculation, and decided they couldn't field a large enough army.
There's one part of that calculation that's inconsistent in world gen (it predates the use of non-historical populations, so they weren't being figure in), but I'm not sure that'll change anything. The post world gen function is even mushier, but there's a speed issue there.
But I'm not sure it's even incorrect, the decision they are making, if the populations really are that way. Dwarves can outpopulate other people, but they only seem to get in wars with people that outmatch them (probably because they don't start wars, and others start wars they feel they can win?) But their war logic might be correct? It seems like I'm still missing something.
Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.The relevant personality facets are the same as humans. So far it seems to be that they are just out-populated, and think they are going to lose. A few overcame the risk rolls all the way up until it did the fortification calculation, and decided they couldn't field a large enough army.
There's one part of that calculation that's inconsistent in world gen (it predates the use of non-historical populations, so they weren't being figure in), but I'm not sure that'll change anything. The post world gen function is even mushier, but there's a speed issue there.
But I'm not sure it's even incorrect, the decision they are making, if the populations really are that way. Dwarves can outpopulate other people, but they only seem to get in wars with people that outmatch them (probably because they don't start wars, and others start wars they feel they can win?) But their war logic might be correct? It seems like I'm still missing something.
Is equipment taken into consideration in any way in the NPC vs. NPC battles? Is that possible?
Quote from: MagistrumWill rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.
Generally having new cultures able to form is a goal in changing the frameworks, after the magic stuff. History is bizarrely static right now, and the current frameworks are not easy to work with in those terms.
--Reads dev notes...Quote from: MagistrumWill rebel groups be able to form their own distinct civilization?
Instead of just having war with your own civ, or moving back to your original civilization.
Generally having new cultures able to form is a goal in changing the frameworks, after the magic stuff. History is bizarrely static right now, and the current frameworks are not easy to work with in those terms.
So I'm guessing that adventures won't be able to take over towns and have just one group in charge of all the towns, instead of one for each town until after magic?
Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.
Elves are equipped with giant elephants. Makes a difference.
In a world I've been looking at, some of the army battles where dwarves are the "defender" seem to take place right outside the goblin gates. Self-defence by way of preemptive strike? Or else the goblins spent so much time faffing about on the march, dwarves went over to get it over with. :)Yes. But it's a very recent addition so you might not have noticed it yet.
Elves are equipped with giant elephants. Makes a difference.
Thank you. I did not know that.
I hope something is able to be done to address this.
While from a lore perspective it could be rationalized that dwarves never start wars or attack anybody because they are not interested in living anywhere but their mountains, that is not very satisfying because you would think that it would occur to them to go destroy the forest refuges and dark pits and solve their problems that way.
It is sad having passive, pacifistic dwarves.
In a world I've been looking at, some of the army battles where dwarves are the "defender" seem to take place right outside the goblin gates. Self-defence by way of preemptive strike? Or else the goblins spent so much time faffing about on the march, dwarves went over to get it over with. :)
They don't seem to invade yet though, unless a player has provoked them. Then they're happy to attack even if the player has long since retired.
With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?First part is the point, yes.
With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?Second part: I just checked current Legends info on two random dwarven civs, and they seem to worship different sets of gods (but I didn't delve deep enough into it to see if there may be overlaps). It would make sense to have a common basic creation myth, but have different civs worship different subsets of the source pantheon, and have the pantheon morphed into variants (such as e.g. the fairly pathetic Greek Ares turning into the mighty Roman Mars, or aspects of a source deity being split into two/two source deities merged into one. I believe this has happened in human history). I will be interesting to hear what Toady intends to do, though.
(such as e.g. the fairly pathetic Greek Ares turning into the mighty Roman Mars, or aspects of a source deity being split into two/two source deities merged into one. I believe this has happened in human history)
allowed recentering on the item in "item inaccessible" announcements
With the magic release, I expect the code for strange moods will be revised. I think we can expect magical effects tied to artifacts. But;
1. Can we expect artifacts to be de-hardcoded, so that, for instance newer skills like Pottery and Waxworking will be moodable, along with potentially nodded new skills and workshops?
2. Can we look forward to a general revision of workshops since this is tied to moods?
3. Will item type constrain the sort of spheres to which the artifact is attached, so that we are, for example, more likely to generate a golden sarcophagus of resurrection than a pig iron bucket that summons fluffy wambler remains?
4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?
Magic in the fortress
Artifact powers that matter for the fort
Generalize artifact moods, respecting myths
Various magic types available in fort mode in high-magic worlds
Invasions by magical beings beyond necromancers, creating new challenges
Diplomacy with magical beings
Expanded elf/nature spirit diplomacy
Long-term magical residents and other sorts of integration
Send a dwarf off as a wizard's apprentice
Magical research incorporated into library system
Fortresses meaningfully built around magical landforms
Impact of simple divine law and other deity/religion interaction
I've seen projects like this before add choices. The choice between a prison colony and say, founding a powerful religious site or a new central mountainhome.4. Hill dwarves next 6 months (dev notes - it's included in this current update cycle).
I can't remember the details, but people tended to choose things like the latter two. I am not saying a prison colony can't become almost the same thing, but people choose the latter two because it's more gratifying.
Starting a prison colony has a negative stigma.
1. How will starting scenarios enable people to fulfill their power fantasy?
2. One problem I found with embarking anywhere, is lack of access to hard metals, like iron, silver and copper. Will a retired mining colony be able to, indefinitely/for a very long time, supply these resources? It doesn't particularly matter to me if the mines are properly depleted, or just there for flavor. This is the main reason embarking anywhere is a problem.
3. How far off is a trade upgrade?
4. How far off is hill dwarf recruitment?
4. Hill dwarves next 6 months (dev notes - it's included in this current update cycle).
3. Trade, probably Economy. About 10-15 years from now.
I'm optimistic:4. Hill dwarves next 6 months (dev notes - it's included in this current update cycle).
3. Trade, probably Economy. About 10-15 years from now.
Not 15, 20-ish ;)
I hope that we'll get some maybe simple little boats during this next big cycle. Because I like boats.
It's been stated before that boats are dependent on the advanced machinery update, and Toady can't decide whether the economy should go first (so there's a reason to use boats) or machinery should go first. The important advance machinery foundation for boats is multi tile sized machinery that can change shape (I think, like a current drawbridge) and move (an elevator type contraption would move vertically, but boats will obviously move across the X/Y plane, while a wagon would have to negotiate slopes as well [I believe the wagon "creatures" are slated to be replaced by "machinery"]).I hope that we'll get some maybe simple little boats during this next big cycle. Because I like boats.
No. Toady likes to release a big feature all at once. Not in little simple chunks, because one player wants it.
I don't recall if this has been answered, nor if I've asked it yet. I have expressed concerns related tp it if I recall, but that got derailed because people started arguing after misreading what that concern was about.
Suppose you have a mod that changes entities to behave in a specific way that is required for some other aspect of the mod to function. Moreover, suppose that the future myth generator would potentially completely break this entity by forcing it to use hardcoded generated critters, entity tokens and such.
Is there going to be any way for a raw mod to restrict how mythgen is handled, so that if you want to FORCE the game to use certain civs it'll do so, regardless of mythgen settings?
The reason I ask this is because if this option does not exist, the myth arc is almost guaranteed to break pretty much every civ-focused raw mod in existence, and counting on the user to advanced-worldgen more "vanilla" worlds is not an optimal solution.
Sounds pretty obvious. Toady does not want to disappoint modders here.
A couple more quick questions;
When you rewrite the map code, can we expect to see any change to aquifers?
I imagine that new versions will include a "vanilla" setting that includes the standard races and enemies with which we are familiar, like the flesh-eating elves and mischievous kobolds. Do you have in mind a standard "vanilla" set of rules in mind for magic and myth once it's implemented, either as a baseline from which other modes deviate or as one permutation amongst many?
The new outdoor cleaning feature is nice, but it poses a real problem in evil biomes with blood rain. An order, like the gather refuse outside order, but for cleaning outside would be great. Is this something I could hope for?Suggestions belong to the suggestion thread... For the time being, you can avoid cleaning of roads by not making them or by roofing them over.
What are your thoughts on creatures that went extinct after the technological cutoff of year 1500 (e.g. dronts, tasmanian devils)? Are they excluded from the lists of animals that might be added in the future?
Just jumping in to remind everyone to color limegreen the questions only, to reduce the amount of text The Great Toady One has to read.As far as I understand, Toady reads everything. The purpose of the (lime) green indication is to thep Toady find the questions among the chaff when it's time to answer then. Cutting down on the size of the marked part of the post helps keeping the size of the answer post down, though.
What are your thoughts on creatures that went extinct after the technological cutoff of year 1500 (e.g. dronts, tasmanian devils)? Are they excluded from the lists of animals that might be added in the future?I see no reason to apply any strict time limits to flora/fauna, as the 1400 cutoff is a technological guide line. Spheres might provide a reason to introduce things out of time, such as the ice age megafauna or dinosaurs, while whacky worlds might get those or weirder stuff.
What are your thoughts on creatures that went extinct after the technological cutoff of year 1500 (e.g. dronts, tasmanian devils)? Are they excluded from the lists of animals that might be added in the future?From DF Talk #20:
Question 9
Threetoe: Ok, Aaron asks, 'Considering Dwarf Fortress' long development, will animals be removed the game as their real life counterparts go extinct or will animals such as polar bears, gorillas and pandas be kept in Dwarf Fortress even after their extinction in reality? Any plans to include the moa, dodos, or pygmy mammoths that were still kicking around past 1400AD?' Yeah, that's kind of a messed-up question. We were thinking about having the animal sponsorship drive. That didn't really work out that well, well it did monetarily, but it was kind of hard to implement. At one point considering having an extinct animal sponsorship drive.
Toady: Yeah, it probably wouldn't be a sponsorship drive, at least not the same way. We'd be happy to include extinct animals, and I think it would be just cold, if the polar goes extinct, to remove it from the game, that'd be cold. I'd like to keep the polar bear in there as kind of an homage to the existence of the polar bear, but it is incredibly depressing to think about that. But I'm not removing polar bears from the game.
Once you get to magical artifacts and such, will you consider having certain artifacts be part of a "set" with other artifacts? Like a legendary sword and shield with a special power that only works when you use both of them, or five magical keys that can unlock the secrets of the universe only if you collect them all?
Capntastic: Will there be multipart sets like the helmet of Deulath with the gloves of Deulath with the sword of Deulath, brought together.
Toady: It's kind of a thing where after you've played Diablo II you don't want to do it, but there should be stuff like that. Especially when you come down to a guy who becomes attached to multiple objects or something, the fact that those are kept completely separate from each other is odd. If the guy has a sword and a helmet that he's given names to, and he stabbed the dragon and then drove the helmet through the dragon ...
Interlocutor: Headbutt.
Toady: Yeah yeah! Then those things should be linked in history and perhaps even in some magical way ... but certainly historically there should be linkages like that. Now when you're talking about actually creating an artifact I think there was some development item about artifact sets; it's not just for things like the sword and the shield that go together, but more importantly the two gloves that go together that are separate objects, and then also things like several arrows, instead of just one. So there's certainly going to be some expansions there.
Apart from being replaced by equal or stronger events, do long term memories fade over time? That is, they lose strength over the years to give the chance to other not so strong events to replace it in that long term memory spot?I think that's what would happen once they starting dividing long term memories into life stages. Then it'll start getting interesting. A tragic event in childhood might not be recalled and dwelled upon so much in old age, but it might subconsciously effect their world view for their entire lives.
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?
I'm just already imagining making tragedy-curing potion with a syndrome that brings a dwarf's memory stat down temporarily until they've forgotten their troubles.
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?
I'm just already imagining making tragedy-curing potion with a syndrome that brings a dwarf's memory stat down temporarily until they've forgotten their troubles.
Elves and goblins never forget on part of their immortality, elves especially being vengeful and goblins being violent will probably mean their exotic personalities may be exaggerated through experience, should be fun to test out. Though it should be funnier to watch a bumbling vampires, necromancers or wizards forget details of their life after they attained immortality by other means with normal memory statistics.
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?
I'm just already imagining making tragedy-curing potion with a syndrome that brings a dwarf's memory stat down temporarily until they've forgotten their troubles.
Elves and goblins never forget on part of their immortality, elves especially being vengeful and goblins being violent will probably mean their exotic personalities may be exaggerated through experience, should be fun to test out. Though it should be funnier to watch a bumbling vampires, necromancers or wizards forget details of their life after they attained immortality by other means with normal memory statistics.
Wait, is the updated stress system in effect for all races or just dorfs?
(Hoping another player can answer this which is why I didn't bother LG-ifying it)
1. Will mind-affecting spells exist? Includes: Memory-alteration/removal/inclusion, intelligence reduction/increase, raising/lowering the speed at which dwarves become proficient at their craft, and writing curses on walls that compel readers to read the information on them and convey it to others, repeating the curse's effect. Also possibly something inducing berserk states.
@PlumpHelmetMan
All inteligent races can get into strange moods now
Don't all the major races in DF (Goblins, elves, dwarves and humans) have [STRANGE_MOODS] in their raws?No. Only dwarves.
How will priests, and the role they play in different cultures, intersect with the Myth/Magic update? Will priests have access to some kind of magic or divine powers? Will players be able to become priests?In worlds where gods exist, gods may be able to/elect to (depending on world gen) grant power to adherents. In worlds where gods do not exist, but magic does (if that combination is valid) there is no reason priests couldn't wield magic they think (or claim) is of a divine origin when it actually isn't.
Are you considering implementing family names that can be assumed through marriage, inherited through parentage and created by noteworthy deeds, as determined by caste raws?http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170319.0
Shazbot is currently feeling more shameless.
There's been a lot of discussion about passing down family names and so on, people are kind of upset sometimes when they have a fortress for a while and the dwarves have babies and the babies just have completely unrelated names, that's just something that hasn't gotten in, but it'll go in as soon as we figure out what dwarves like to do, or what procedural stuff needs to be generated there.
Are you considering implementing family names that can be assumed through marriage, inherited through parentage and created by noteworthy deeds, as determined by caste raws?http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170319.0
Shazbot is currently feeling more shameless.
From DFtalk 6:Quote from: http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_6_transcript.htmlThere's been a lot of discussion about passing down family names and so on, people are kind of upset sometimes when they have a fortress for a while and the dwarves have babies and the babies just have completely unrelated names, that's just something that hasn't gotten in, but it'll go in as soon as we figure out what dwarves like to do, or what procedural stuff needs to be generated there.
I'm fairly certain it's been asked a few times in previous FotF threads as well, but not as easy digging stuff out from there :P
What will portals do? Can they be two-way transports to other locations, or a thing that creates new creatures? Can demons emerge from them? Can they appear in fort mode and summon vermin? Can they be summoned manually? How? Lots more questions
What will portals do? Can they be two-way transports to other locations, or a thing that creates new creatures? Can demons emerge from them? Can they appear in fort mode and summon vermin? Can they be summoned manually? How? Lots more questionsAccording to what's been said so far, the initial version of portals will be one way, allowing critters to emerge from them into the DF world, and "demons" should definitely be among the non native critters that might emerge.
With the myth and magic arc will choosing a demigod adventurer affect the way the game will be played in any new ways?Lime green text if that's a question for Toady.
Like will choosing demigod actually give you specific divine parentage? Of course this would rely on the setting, but could you be given powers based on your parentage?
Or will the demigod setting just be renamed to something else, or simply kept as is with no further affects other than increased attribute and skill points?
When planes are released will the location of hell be able to change in world gen?, and if so will the spires be replaced by portals to the plane of hell?
Presumably yes to both. Assuming the world in question even has a hell, of course. Some worlds won't, seeing as mythgen will allow for astonishingly diverse worldgen results, some of which may be almost unrecognizable as a product of the game in its current form.We'll see what Toady comes up with. The problem with using portals is that portals are going to be one way for a fair while before they become two way, which means you'd only be able to let the buggers in, but not engage them on their home turf for a number of years if that implementation is used. Also, the delicious candy would be sorely missed by craving dorf overseers (although there are ways around that problem, of course, one of which involves cosmic egg shells and the like).
Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?
However it does involve sitting around and having conversations along the lines of, "so, which should be weighted as more traumatic, enduring the decay of one's mother or witnessing the death of one's child at the hands of your mother-turned-night-creature?"Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?
Remember that they can't actually feel, it is just a variable or two. The number of "variables" that control a human's feelings is on the order of a few thousands.
That's not what I asked.Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?
Remember that they can't actually feel, it is just a variable or two. The number of "variables" that control a human's feelings is on the order of a few thousands.
Post-Singularity AI 1: Do you think it's wrong to sim these meatfolk without them knowing it is a sim?
Post-Singularity AI 2: Why, because of the mass murders and whatnot?
Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.
Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.
But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story
Highest on the 'no-violence' scale is 'no death'. So, best you could do probably is organize some wrestling tournaments.Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.
But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story
Yup! Once Myth comes along we will be able to make non-violent worlds, then, ahem, violence that world.
Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
Thumb wrestling, maybe.Highest on the 'no-violence' scale is 'no death'. So, best you could do probably is organize some wrestling tournaments.Exactly. We do not have to create an utopia for them, because it does not make an interesting game/sim.
But destroying their utopia and introducing fear and death to a world that had never known it before would make for a good story
Yup! Once Myth comes along we will be able to make non-violent worlds, then, ahem, violence that world.
Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
[color]I've heard that one-way portals will come before two-way ones, but isn't a two-way portals just two one-way portals leading to and from opposite locations?I assume that what Toady means by “One-way” is that they only let mobs enter the map, seeing as “having a discontinuous area in play at the same time as the fort” is the real technical hurdle.
Will there be portals at all at this point that lead out of the fort, or are they just going to be for critters coming in?[/color]
I've heard that one-way portals will come before two-way ones, but isn't a two-way portals just two one-way portals leading to and from opposite locations?As Dorsidwarf said, the issue is handling multiple locations concurrently, not the portals in themselves. Thus, the initial one way ones will all be inbound (it would be possible to handle two way ones the same as raids are handled currently [i.e. leave, return, and then produce a report of the action afterwards], but since that would be a short term measure that would be rendered obsolete within a few Myth & Magic arcs, Toady is unlikely to spend efforts on it unless the current raid system can be co-opted into service with rather little effort).
Will there be portals at all at this point that lead out of the fort, or are they just going to be for critters coming in?
1) With the Myth&Magic system, will we see magical auras? Like the Surrounding system, an area might also be associated with a Myth, and exhibit properties of that Myth. Let's say the Myth generation creates a connection between ice, lizardmen and silver (I will call these spheres), and an area highly aligned with this Myth would be colder, show often snow, ice formations, lizard-like creatures, abundant silver veins, silver colored trees, and in general entities associated with those spheres.
2) Again on this aura concept. Will we see the properties of an area modify the value of its surrounding? E.g. a fortress with a shrine to a God: will the influence of that God increase with the prayers? Will we see anything like of building a fortress in an evil biome and trying to create and expand an aura that opposes the evil biome and having the evil biome effects less strong closer to the church?
Always on this, let's say there's an area with a verdant pine forest and full of bears, and the Myth generation creates a connection between a lightning god, bears and pine trees. Given how the area "looks like" that Myth, will the association of this area with this Myth increase over time, and see the place get more lightning storm, flowers that give you a shock if you eat them, then magical creatures of lightning and so on?
4) More in general, will Myth creation stop at worldgen? Or will it also run during playing time and include player introduce elements?
5) How much can we expect in terms of procedurally generated magical content? Will it include normal and widespread creatures and plants? Will we have generate worlds with large forest of procedurally generated trees, animals, stone, metal etc...?
Cave spider venom causes permanent dizziness for life. The only bug report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8112) I could find on the issue was closed, citing the raws as evidence of intended behavior. Is this actually true, or is it a mistake in the raws?
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:cave spider bite]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:SPIDER_CAVE:ALL]
[SYN_INJECTED]
[CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:10:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:START:5:PEAK:100] never ends!
Cave spider venom causes permanent dizziness for life. The only bug report (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8112) I could find on the issue was closed, citing the raws as evidence of intended behavior. Is this actually true, or is it a mistake in the raws?Code: [Select][SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:cave spider bite]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:SPIDER_CAVE:ALL]
[SYN_INJECTED]
[CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:10:PROB:100:RESISTABLE:START:5:PEAK:100] never ends!
Hint: search the raws yourself. File is creature_subterranean.
:Two possible answers:
WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS TO US
In regards to conveying information more openly in adventure mode, do you intend making NPCs convey their emotions in more ways than merely stating them? I.e smiling when making a good deal, shrieking in pain when taking damage, or some of the mannerisms that are currently described only in fort mode? Would be fun to encounter the occasional hysterical bandit that loudly screams when lightly tapped. Or the psycho who grins as he/she is getting stabbed.Wait, where does this happen in Fortress mode? It's the same "I've been mortally wounded, no that's not depressing" that Adventurer uses, isn't it?
Well, I find it hard to imagine that "prioritizing important information" won't involve revealing a greater extent of interesting information to the player. So yeah, we can probably expect some of that from this update cycle (not that it'll be fleshed-out completely of course, Toady and many others are pretty anxious to start myth development at this point :P).I can't say for sure, but it seems that it's more about making the currently available information much more accessible to players instead of in long random lists.
Concerning the more isolated and obscure intelligent species, such as gnomes, pixies, merfolk, satyrs, etc... Will the first pass of the mythgen update have any affect on these specie's organization (roaming tribes, et cetera), and to what extent do you see them attempting any variety of effective and placebo magic?
To what degree do you want a player to be able to direct their scholars to naturalist, druidic magics that can be practiced by these tribes and other tribes (kobolds, animalmen, etc)? Are you looking towards any manner of arbitrary or cultural barrier (through ethics?) to prevent a dwarven fortress from being competent in all worldly magics, or are you content with the dwarves being able to potentially fully develop their knowledge on obscure magics, given the resources?
Could you rephrase that?Concerning the more isolated and obscure intelligent species, such as gnomes, pixies, merfolk, satyrs, etc... Will the first pass of the mythgen update have any affect on these specie's organization (roaming tribes, et cetera), and to what extent do you see them attempting any variety of effective and placebo magic?
To what degree do you want a player to be able to direct their scholars to naturalist, druidic magics that can be practiced by these tribes and other tribes (kobolds, animalmen, etc)? Are you looking towards any manner of arbitrary or cultural barrier (through ethics?) to prevent a dwarven fortress from being competent in all worldly magics, or are you content with the dwarves being able to potentially fully develop their knowledge on obscure magics, given the resources?
Obligatory reminder that there won't be a single magic system goes here.
There won't be a single magic system. It will be procedurally generated for each world.Is it mechanically variable? Thematic? A lot of the changes between one magic system in another won't mean much at all if there's no unifying themes that they gravitate towards, considering that in it's current iteration, dwarf fortress largely lacks driven intent in actions. Most interactions and syndromes don't actually do anything directly in worldgen (there's special tags to cause transmission of werebeast and vampire curse that operate only in worldgen, and completely independent of any blood syndromes.)
The existing myth generator footage should give you a good idea as to what sort of themes Dwarf Fortress magic will have.I haven't seen this, can I have a link?
The existing myth generator footage should give you a good idea as to what sort of themes Dwarf Fortress magic will have.I haven't seen this, can I have a link?
Obligatory reminder that there won't be a single magic system goes here.
There won't be a single magic system. It will be procedurally generated for each world.
Is it mechanically variable? Thematic? A lot of the changes between one magic system in another won't mean much at all if there's no unifying themes that they gravitate towards, considering that in it's current iteration, dwarf fortress largely lacks driven intent in actions. Most interactions and syndromes don't actually do anything directly in worldgen (there's special tags to cause transmission of werebeast and vampire curse that operate only in worldgen, and completely independent of any blood syndromes.)
Mechanically variable and will have worldgen effects. Also, RIP magic mods, these would have to be redesigned.That actually leads me to wonder, will the "Worldgen implications" of magic be emergent or hardcoded? In the former case, "social values" and civics need to actually be fleshed out properly to get an accurate reflection on what magic means to the population.
The myth release will include preparation for Laws and Customs, Toady said that in an interview, that for example teleportation is possible, but it costs half of your blood, people would have to evaluate if it is worth it.Seeing that the law-and-customs release is going to have a hand in consideration for mythgen preparation gives me a bit of relief on this subject, then.
Is there going to be a way to add some kind of deadline to a mission in the next couple of updates? I hear other players having issues with squads wandering around forever.So long as there's news coming in every so often about what squads are up to, I not sure there's need for a time limit. It's a quest after all, not a military maneuver. It's the current silent 'are they broken, are they bar hopping?' uncertainty which is the main problem.
I realize this a bit close to a suggestion/bugfix. However, it seems relevant to the imminent version release, and it's the end of the month, so I thought I'd ask.
1) Are you planning to add more interesting behavior tokens for use by generated and/or mundane creatures?
As it stands, most monsters don't seem very proactive. Randomly generated interactions are cool, and are slated to get a lot cooler, but active trouble-seeking behavior is limited to a handful of tags. CRAZED, MISCHIEVOUS, BUILDINGDESTROYER and CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER come to mind, but not much else. Is there hope for a CURIOUSBEAST_GOBBLER, perhaps, that could result in forgotten beasts that "hunger for metal" and go around eating swords, or Giant Termites/Beavers that devour your wooden items?
2) Are you planning to use existing tools more extensively for more generated magic weirdness?
The Modding forum has achieved some seriously strange effects with the existing system, and it might be worth your time to take a look for ideas. There's so much that's possible already - grasses with SYN_INGESTED that turn horses into unicorns, EXTRA_BUTCHER_OBJECT to spawn syndrome vapors when you butcher a magic animal, acid-puking bite attacks by removing ENTERS_BLOOD from venom... even coal dust and exploding cursed gemstones! Seeing these types of effects in the Magic update would be a real treat.
"Will semi-intelligent combatant's role in conflicts be more streamlined by the time of better integration into raiding and armies of war animals and mounts?"
I imagine this to be slightly different to the previous question on 'support roles' because already, goblins already employ trolls for off map conflicts implicitly of virtually any size without having to need to add any tags onto the creature themselves. It doesn't always turn out smoothly and you hear rumors about oddities like some trolls appearing wearing iron armor & others of goblins riding on their backs without much consistency as what to expect through a mixture of possibly buggy application.
Once we get tributes going, will we get demands from the mountain homes, like food for metropolises and equipment when in war time? Will they bear any resemblance to the current noble demand system?
With the magic update, will world creation myth be incorporated in religions? Is it possible for different civilizations to share religion/pantheon?
With the upcoming addition of medical care for adventurers, do you envision yourself making any changes to the wound system so as to increase the relevance of medical care as a game mechanic? At present, it is entirely possible for most creatures to survive having an entire limb severed off despite taking no measures to restrict blood loss, which is somewhat immersion-breaking to say the least. On a similar note, will the 'instant healing' effect of fast travelling and sleep be removed or modified in any way?
How does the visitor cap interact with visiting groups (performance troupes and questers currently)? I can see three alternatives:
1. Current #visitors + group size > cap => Block the group from entering.
2. Cut the group entering at the point where the visitor cap is reached (which would explain why performance troupes typically arrive with only a few members, even when Legends info claims there are more members alive).
3. Lenient: If the first member of the group makes it in the whole group does (which can be problematic with infiltrator group armies [I had a 127 member army and a 120 member army {largely same members} before questers and monster hunters were made to respect the visitor cap]).
Terminology: "Infiltrator" = member of quester group who all go loyalty hostile when a group member leaves and returns attacking the fortress to get the artifact sought.
So, tell us something of hill dwarves. I've read all you've said about them and their deep cousins in the past, but now that they're upcoming, how will they work exactly? They are dwarves from the surrounding abstract population near your fortress? Or are they the populations from the world's dwarf hillocks (presumably if any exist)? Which we'll be able to send into war, right?
Will that Just Fit with modded worlds? If we're playing elves (as some people are want to do, apparently) will we be able to call up the surrounding pops of animal people (which often flock to elf sites) to fight? Or will it just be a selection of elves? And indeed, in vanilla games will the surrounding non-dwarf pops also be eligible as "hill dwarves" ready for cannon fodder duty?
With the magic release, I expect the code for strange moods will be revised. I think we can expect magical effects tied to artifacts. But;
1. Can we expect artifacts to be de-hardcoded, so that, for instance newer skills like Pottery and Waxworking will be moodable, along with potentially nodded new skills and workshops?
2. Can we look forward to a general revision of workshops since this is tied to moods?
3. Will item type constrain the sort of spheres to which the artifact is attached, so that we are, for example, more likely to generate a golden sarcophagus of resurrection than a pig iron bucket that summons fluffy wambler remains?
4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?
I've seen projects like this before add choices. The choice between a prison colony and say, founding a powerful religious site or a new central mountainhome.
I can't remember the details, but people tended to choose things like the latter two. I am not saying a prison colony can't become almost the same thing, but people choose the latter two because it's more gratifying.
Starting a prison colony has a negative stigma.
1. How will starting scenarios enable people to fulfill their power fantasy?
2. One problem I found with embarking anywhere, is lack of access to hard metals, like iron, silver and copper. Will a retired mining colony be able to, indefinitely/for a very long time, supply these resources? It doesn't particularly matter to me if the mines are properly depleted, or just there for flavor. This is the main reason embarking anywhere is a problem.
Do you eventually intend to implement the effects of starvation/dehydration into npcs for Adventure Mode? If so what arc would that be expected in (if any)? I imagine this sort of thing will have interesting effects on gameplay especially when the economy is reactivated, maybe even disputes between different civs could be about resources, or maybe questlines to fetch things for people as they are treated as necessary for survival. I could see the complexity of relations could be further elaborated on as "helping others" as a value becomes more important or more immediately relevant to some.
Suppose you have a mod that changes entities to behave in a specific way that is required for some other aspect of the mod to function. Moreover, suppose that the future myth generator would potentially completely break this entity by forcing it to use hardcoded generated critters, entity tokens and such.
Is there going to be any way for a raw mod to restrict how mythgen is handled, so that if you want to FORCE the game to use certain civs it'll do so, regardless of mythgen settings?
The reason I ask this is because if this option does not exist, the myth arc is almost guaranteed to break pretty much every civ-focused raw mod in existence, and counting on the user to advanced-worldgen more "vanilla" worlds is not an optimal solution.
When you rewrite the map code, can we expect to see any change to aquifers?
I imagine that new versions will include a "vanilla" setting that includes the standard races and enemies with which we are familiar, like the flesh-eating elves and mischievous kobolds. Do you have in mind a standard "vanilla" set of rules in mind for magic and myth once it's implemented, either as a baseline from which other modes deviate or as one permutation amongst many?
The new outdoor cleaning feature is nice, but it poses a real problem in evil biomes with blood rain. An order, like the gather refuse outside order, but for cleaning outside would be great. Is this something I could hope for?
What are your thoughts on creatures that went extinct after the technological cutoff of year 1500 (e.g. dronts, tasmanian devils)? Are they excluded from the lists of animals that might be added in the future?
Will historical figure dwarves pick up memories in worldgen too? Some of my migrants are war veterans with hundreds of kills and histories of surviving multiple massacres.
Though it may be self explanatory, will "memories" make the dwarves omniscience without the world end and help them to become more conscious by expressing personal things that have happened to them rather than abstract random civilization events. Poorly travelled dwarves being ignorant etc.
As in to give a relevant example, more strictly enforced civilization & personal level knowledge events, sort of like messing with the configuration that only makes them aware of things that happened on site, and losing touch with the progress of the world if they are separated from regular diplomatic visits from caravans & visitors.
and a side question
Will past memories & events scribed into books, engravings and passed down through generations of oral stories affect dwarves recollection of events?
So, Toady, now that Dwarves risk becoming perma-depressed over a spouse dying (according to the upcoming stress balance update), Is there any plans to allow dwarves to remarry? would be tiresome to get the tavern full of grieving dwarves after every battle with the goblins if they never leave it
1. Once the myth and magic update is released/partially released in worlds that have magic will NPC wizards make their own discoveries about magic during world generation? If so how wide spread could the knowledge they discover become?
2. Will each world with magic also generate it's own ways of researching magic and magical secrets or will there be a common set of ways or researching magic?
3. Once one of our adventurer wizards makes a discovery will that discovery be revealed in the myth viewer sort of like a fog of war with magic information?
4. Will our adventurers in some worlds with magic be able to make advances in discovering magical secrets with their own research or will they always need the help of a well established NPC wizard?
1. Could we expect the ability to fast-travel through dark pits/caves if they are inhabited by friendly creatures in the near or far future? What about fording rivers or climbing mountains, though those might be tied to skills like swimming and climbing.
2. What exactly is the current reload time for bows and crossbows? Is there a difference between the two?
3. Would it eventually be possible to adjust the parameters of cave civs to create sites that are less labyrinthine? Sort of like the current worldgen settings for cavern passage density.
4. If [LOCAL_POPS_PRODUCE_HEROES] is added to an intelligent creature set to only spawn as the pets of an existing civilization, will fully-fledged civilized creatures be drawn from that population of pets, or is it required that they spawn in the wilderness to join a civilization as a proper member?
Apart from being replaced by equal or stronger events, do long term memories fade over time? That is, they lose strength over the years to give the chance to other not so strong events to replace it in that long term memory spot?
Are memory slots going to be tied to the Memory attribute?
I think most people can imagine at least 8 horrific things that could happen over the course of a couple of years in-game, but what are potential long-term good memories that might help sooth a poor dorf's life? Getting married, having children, crafting ones first masterwork (possibly), being elected mayor (maybe), what else?
1. Will you be able to reverse undeath in the future? Or, in the case of sentient race's corpses, will undead/thralls be able to have their minds restored? Could one have a thrall fortress, then?
2. Will "Magic Missile"-type spells exist? How effective will they be, if not analogous to crossbow bolts/arrows?
3. I've heard that casting will be song-based from other users. Will this be the only way to cast spells, or will there be more classical methods, a la wands/books/staves/talismans? Does the material used to make such items affect casting functionality? Could a metal casting tool double as a bludgeoning weapon? Will one be able to make dual weapons/casting tools which the user alternates based on distance to target/threat severity?
4. What is the malus to using casting, if any? Is it simply how many times you can use a casting tool/ability per action? Like if it's song-based, the number of mouths on the creature? Or will there be a mana/focus/essence count that depletes as spells are used?
5. Can spells be fired through fortifications or is there a chance the projectile will hit the fortifications as it moves if too large, possibly setting off spell prematurely?
6. Can casting devices be made, a la ballistae or catapults, or even traps?
1. Will mind-affecting spells exist? Includes: Memory-alteration/removal/inclusion, intelligence reduction/increase, raising/lowering the speed at which dwarves become proficient at their craft, and writing curses on walls that compel readers to read the information on them and convey it to others, repeating the curse's effect. Also possibly something inducing berserk states.
Will we have the framework for raiders expanded somewhat while you are working on off site armies? For example, sending provisions/cargo animals for the loot, etc . Or this is going to be developed post magic updates?
How will priests, and the role they play in different cultures, intersect with the Myth/Magic update? Will priests have access to some kind of magic or divine powers? Will players be able to become priests?
Do NPCs in adventure mode ever reflect on their memories when you ask them about their emotional state?
What will portals do? Can they be two-way transports to other locations, or a thing that creates new creatures? Can demons emerge from them? Can they appear in fort mode and summon vermin? Can they be summoned manually? How? Lots more questions
With the myth and magic arc will choosing a demigod adventurer affect the way the game will be played in any new ways?
Like will choosing demigod actually give you specific divine parentage? Of course this would rely on the setting, but could you be given powers based on your parentage?
Or will the demigod setting just be renamed to something else, or simply kept as is with no further affects other than increased attribute and skill points?
When planes are released will the location of hell be able to change in world gen?, and if so will the spires be replaced by portals to the plane of hell?
Is it at all disturbing to implement the system that will allow countless tiny bearded people to remember their traumatic experiences for the rest of their lives?
Will we be able to introduce violence to normally non-violent worlds?
Hey Toady, how often are historical figures pulled from sitepops in worldgen, and in what conditions? For the most part, this question concerns full grown adults being pulled into existence without known lineage, in particular, or is there retroactive lineage generation?
Relating to the first question, what sort of balance do you wish to strike from the following two directions?:
-That frequently pulling adults into existence during worldgen is immersively destructive, due to the sheer amount of individuals who seem to exist with no historical relation to any individuals, and no family to direct the course of their actions in any way.
-That infrequently pulling individuals into existence during worldgen can cause issues in that tightly knit family trees have much more involvement in everything that occurs in the world than anyone else, and that their limited numbers can cause issues if a significant amount of them find vital roles not their calling. That it is also difficult to counter this due to the limitation of the drag on worldgen that excessive historical figures causes.
About one-way portals, will there be Necromancer-like raids coming out of them? Kinda like “other realm” stuff. It would be intimidating to see a field of portals opening, summoning a creature, and closing.
1) With the Myth&Magic system, will we see magical auras? Like the Surrounding system, an area might also be associated with a Myth, and exhibit properties of that Myth. Let's say the Myth generation creates a connection between ice, lizardmen and silver (I will call these spheres), and an area highly aligned with this Myth would be colder, show often snow, ice formations, lizard-like creatures, abundant silver veins, silver colored trees, and in general entities associated with those spheres.
2) Again on this aura concept. Will we see the properties of an area modify the value of its surrounding? E.g. a fortress with a shrine to a God: will the influence of that God increase with the prayers? Will we see anything like of building a fortress in an evil biome and trying to create and expand an aura that opposes the evil biome and having the evil biome effects less strong closer to the church?
Always on this, let's say there's an area with a verdant pine forest and full of bears, and the Myth generation creates a connection between a lightning god, bears and pine trees. Given how the area "looks like" that Myth, will the association of this area with this Myth increase over time, and see the place get more lightning storm, flowers that give you a shock if you eat them, then magical creatures of lightning and so on?
3) I see dwarves being more and more creative, telling stories, playing make believe, now even writing fiction books. Will this be expanded to fairytales? And could very famous fairytales have a concrete effect on the world, and be part of some sort of Myth generation during game time? The idea being that fairies inhabit the world of imagination and a strong believe can summon the fairies to the real world. Sufficient people telling the story of the big bad wolf living in a certain cave, has the effect of actually bringing a big bad fairy wolf to that very cave.
Having said that Now that we are gonna get assasinations and kidnapping missions in all modes, is it the time to make knocking out and dragging unconscious enemies possible?
If it were, will the also upcoming medical stuff in adv. mode include sleep/alertness inducing herbs to poison enemies?
In regards to conveying information more openly in adventure mode, do you intend making NPCs convey their emotions in more ways than merely stating them? I.e smiling when making a good deal, shrieking in pain when taking damage, or some of the mannerisms that are currently described only in fort mode? Would be fun to encounter the occasional hysterical bandit that loudly screams when lightly tapped. Or the psycho who grins as he/she is getting stabbed.
What about nobles? Would they say what they're nobles of? I often find an issue with various bandit leaders not really stating what they're leaders of, making it hard to tell if they're really relevant enough to bother with, same with other nobles - would be a definite improvement
Concerning the more isolated and obscure intelligent species, such as gnomes, pixies, merfolk, satyrs, etc... Will the first pass of the mythgen update have any affect on these specie's organization (roaming tribes, et cetera), and to what extent do you see them attempting any variety of effective and placebo magic?
To what degree do you want a player to be able to direct their scholars to naturalist, druidic magics that can be practiced by these tribes and other tribes (kobolds, animalmen, etc)? Are you looking towards any manner of arbitrary or cultural barrier (through ethics?) to prevent a dwarven fortress from being competent in all worldly magics, or are you content with the dwarves being able to potentially fully develop their knowledge on obscure magics, given the resources?
To my understanding, many rituals will continue to exist in low-myth mode, but clearly not effective, such as priesthood and rituals that work for the mentioned placebo reasons. In higher myth strength worlds, do you see this placebic magic continuing to coexist with functional magical practices between cultures due to incomplete knowledge concerning all worldly magic, or will the effects and proof of magic be overt enough that the standards for believing a type of magic exists end up being raised compared to real life?
Is there going to be a way to add some kind of deadline to a mission in the next couple of updates? I hear other players having issues with squads wandering around forever.
So long as there's news coming in every so often about what squads are up to, I not sure there's need for a time limit. It's a quest after all, not a military maneuver. It's the current silent 'are they broken, are they bar hopping?' uncertainty which is the main problem.It doesn't do much good to know what your dwarves are up to if they end up on a permanent wild goose chase. For example, if an artifact instrument is in the possession of a band of world-traveling performers. A deadline seems like the most practical end condition. Otherwise, we need to make sure the message can actually get to the squad.
(Apologies for treating your question like the start of a suggestion discussion. Kind of seemed like one). :)
Wait, you said memory doesn't do much, I'm not just imagining things when it seems to help retain more of the "previously viewed but not visible" layout especially when deep in a catacomb or sewer, am I?That's pretty much all it does, which is adventurer exclusive.
With some degree of that, total conversion style mods should be able to side step myth gen entirely (this is also implicit in the notion of editors, so some form of it is definitely going in with those.)
Thanks for the answers, Toady.
I think what Random_Dragon meant is in regards to mods that have their own "lore" and so on that require specific tokens to always function a certain way, because otherwise they wouldn't make sense - so we'd require tokens restricting certain stuff, i.e so they don't use procedural creatures as pets, don't use magic outside of ones defined by the modder, or so their creation myths are always the same ones that are defined by the modder, rather than procedural ones per world. This is mostly flavor stuff, but I'd imagine there could be gameplay-related issues if more randomness is added that we cannot restrict in the raw files.
Now that the game has: "Side-stepped unit load failure, creating substitute unit upon irreversible corruption" - does this mean the "nemesis unit load failure" bug has been fixed?Yes, that's the issue. Note that it's side-stepping the issue by unit recreation, which should stop it from crashing, but since the actual reason(s) for units to become corrupt in the first place is unknown the underlying cause hasn't been fixed. When Toady mentioned that the issue had been handled he said there would be a log indicating a problem was found.
I should add I have not actually had this bug happen to me, but it's been an issue for some people...
I was wondering if when demanding tribute from other civilizations there would be any way to set a preference level for certain items i.e. food, bars, animals etc. Do you think that this could ever be an option and if so would it be similar to the trade agreement menu?
...I haven't created a very specific Loot Menu yet. I imagine this will happen, as people will want to direct the sorts of items returned.
Quote from: DwarfuWhat form will tribute take and how will it arrive at the player’s fort?......Like the looting, there isn't a menu to make it specific yet, but we'll get to that in time.
And a completely unrelated question:
Have you ever considered livestreaming yourself coding? Maybe just as a one time event to try it. I've seen other developers do it and there's definitely people who like to watch that kinda stuff. It would be an interesting way to engage with the community, I think, and maybe it could also lead to a surge of donations. (In that case, I guess it would be best to actually do that during the long wait for the myth release.)
Of course you might just not want people to look over your shoulder while you're working, which would be totally understandable.
Quote from: SizikWould you ever consider livestreaming DF development (e.g. on Twitch)?I haven't watched livestreamed development, so I don't know how to make it unboring. Everybody that has come by to film etc. here has had plans to showcase development, which they then scrap after a few minutes because it is so dull.
Once the ability to administer other sites is introduced, do you intend to rebalance game elements (such as agriculture) to encourage site specialisation? And if so, what sort of time scale would we be looking at to see those changes? Requiring food imports would make sieges far more dangerous as starvation would actually be a possibility.I doubt an extensive agricultural reform is due until the Economy update at least. And site specialization (or something like it) is presumably part of the Starting Scenarios update. Neither of these are part of the list of potential updates for the next few months. So, "several years from now" is probably the best answer you can get for "time scale". You can mod slower crops I think if all you need is a risk of starvation to your game.
Or did you have something else in mind for this feature?
Making dwarves in general highly unsusceptible to stress will make them stress less, yeah.That's not what I meant.
Every so often a dwarf can "remember/relive/dwell upon" the memory, if their personality leans toward the given emotion (positive or negative), and receive an additional stress change. Once a year passes, a short-term memoryThat theoretically should mean that personalities leaning towards violence and killing stuff, should get positive reactions from dead bodies.
1. Of the pre myth and magic update feature candidates remaining which ones if any of them do you think will enhance the first pass of the myth and magic update? For example one recently added feature that might enhance the first pass is being able to see what our adventurers are thinking which may be affected by magic.3. That sounds a lot like the current vaults.
2. What types of mages do you think will be available to play as in the first pass of the myth and magic update and which do you think will have to wait till the second pass? Also I'd like to hear your reasoning for this answer.
3. In the myth and magic update will new types structures be generated for housing magical artifacts that aren't directly tied to an existing civilization? For example a temple created by gods to house a magic staff.
4. In terms of the magic items that don't seem to be artificially made such as the example of the cosmic egg pieces how do you plan to handle their placement assuming there's no artificial structure made to house them? Can an adventurer just be walking through the woods and find a powerful magic item just lying on the ground?
At its current state, how feasible would it be to convert biome generation into a raw-based system? Have you considered this in the past?Biomes are currently generated based on world tile parameters approximating how biomes appear in the real world. The set of biomes covers all combinations of these parameters such that you get exactly one one biome given the parameters (and the PSV set is not complete, by the way). If biomes where treated as disconnected pieces you could play with individually you could easily get parameter combinations that would not result in any biome at all, as well as ones that would match several biomes (in which case I guess you could RNG it). I assume you could have a "background" biome you'd end up with if nothing fits to cover the holes.
Its been awhile since i was active here!Current 'small improvements' phase has been extended to make up for the long years we'll spend waiting for Mythgen.
So whats next for adventure mode? (I think im one of the few people on here who plays adventure mode way more then fort mode because i absolutely love it and think even now its one of the best RPG's ever made because of all the options and ways we can interact with the world, (such as the fact that we can join a bandit group, which i do way too often)) anyway, onto my question,
1.any plans for players to be able to say, open up their own shops?
2. Do you plan to expand adventurer banditry? (Right now when you join a bandit gang the bandit leader basically acts just like a lord and gives you the same tasks as a lord)
Its been awhile since i was active here!1. I wouldn't expect that to happen until there's an economy for the shops to act in, i.e. in/post the future economy arc.
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1.Any plans for players to be able to say, open up their own shops?
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I think that's something for the gameplay questions forum, not here. It's called FUTURE of the Fortress, not "parts of the fortress present that I have questions about".It has been answered in this thread before though. Don't recall the answer. Search for long enough and you'll find it.
What's the story on getting non-dwarves in migrant waves or animal-people visitors? Seems like animal-people don't show up in player fortresses nearly as much as they do in generated fortresses.
Toady's reply:
Since we didn't know how non-dwarf citizens would turn out (in terms of clothing production etc.), they are disallowed as general migrants. I'm still not sure where we're at there.
Though I guess the lackluster devlogs nowadays is more to blame.
would the toad ever make a pun gen for dfLimegreen if that's a serious question.
would the toad ever make a pun gen for dfLimegreen if that's a serious question.
Devblog continues to log (almost every single week for years and years) what's happening. That's mostly bug-fixing right now. Do you think Toady's writing skills have decreased, or are you just bored with current development? The updates on memory, development notes for the next few months, mythgen lecturers have been fantastic.
I doubt he has as much time for that as he used to. As the fan base grows, so do his responsibilities. Bug tracker, forums, etc.
He tends to post a devlog entry once a week. The content of that entry is mostly what he's currently working on, and right now that's bug fixes.
Seems future stuff is mainly discussed here or in DF talks, and it's been four years since the last talk.
If anything questions here should be more like that and less about the distant future and hypothetical scenarios lile most of the questions here nowadays.
i'm not sure but it would be fun to try to get him to do thatwould the toad ever make a pun gen for dfLimegreen if that's a serious question.
You could say it's a question that'll make Toady green around the gills.
1. In terms of magical crafting in the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be forms of magic crafting that require stationary work areas such as an alchemy lab or run scribing table? If so would an adventurer in those worlds be able to participate in magic crafting if they found one of those work areas or would such crafting be fortress mode only?These are more like suggestions.
2. Will it be possible in some worlds for civilizations to create magic buildings for use defending or improving the well being of their sites? For example a magic savvy civilization might make a tower to put a force field around their sites to keep unwanted visitors out or a tower that improves crop yield in their farms?
3. In the first pass of the myth and magic update might some forms of magic be affected by what an adventurer is feeling? For example one magic might be more effective if an adventurer is happy and less if they are sad?
4. Might our adventurer's relationships with npcs in the first pass of the myth and magic update affect how effective some forms of magic are? For example a harming spell might be more effective against someone you really hate?
Well hopefully I have better luck next time.1. In terms of magical crafting in the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be forms of magic crafting that require stationary work areas such as an alchemy lab or run scribing table? If so would an adventurer in those worlds be able to participate in magic crafting if they found one of those work areas or would such crafting be fortress mode only?These are more like suggestions.
2. Will it be possible in some worlds for civilizations to create magic buildings for use defending or improving the well being of their sites? For example a magic savvy civilization might make a tower to put a force field around their sites to keep unwanted visitors out or a tower that improves crop yield in their farms?
3. In the first pass of the myth and magic update might some forms of magic be affected by what an adventurer is feeling? For example one magic might be more effective if an adventurer is happy and less if they are sad?
4. Might our adventurer's relationships with npcs in the first pass of the myth and magic update affect how effective some forms of magic are? For example a harming spell might be more effective against someone you really hate?
It's probably too early to say what will and what will not appear in the *first* Myth & Magic arc.Well hopefully I have better luck next time.1. In terms of magical crafting in the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be forms of magic crafting that require stationary work areas such as an alchemy lab or run scribing table? If so would an adventurer in those worlds be able to participate in magic crafting if they found one of those work areas or would such crafting be fortress mode only?These are more like suggestions.
2. Will it be possible in some worlds for civilizations to create magic buildings for use defending or improving the well being of their sites? For example a magic savvy civilization might make a tower to put a force field around their sites to keep unwanted visitors out or a tower that improves crop yield in their farms?
3. In the first pass of the myth and magic update might some forms of magic be affected by what an adventurer is feeling? For example one magic might be more effective if an adventurer is happy and less if they are sad?
4. Might our adventurer's relationships with npcs in the first pass of the myth and magic update affect how effective some forms of magic are? For example a harming spell might be more effective against someone you really hate?
Not in all worlds, and balance depends on the sliders, so a high-weirdness world will have very imbalanced spells and artifacts.
4. Will world-ending artifacts be a thing? How would they be balanced?
1.In the development plans it says there are plans for the adventurer to play as a wizards apprentice with a whole section for what the player should be able to do in that situation, isn’t that more like an adventurer role? Along the same lines as the thief role.Adventurer "roles" won't be specified in game explicitly according to the notes, they're just arcs of features to allow you more things to do in Adventurer. Like being a wizards apprentice.
I know, I play tons of adventure mode and have listened to all the df talks miltiple times. I was just thinking it was in an odd place, feels like it needs its own section.Ah, probably because it was added later than the other roles when the mythgen notes went up. So it's something specifically for one of the mythgen updates to look at as opposed to the unordered lists at the bottom. Top of the list is newer than the bottom confusingly.
Sorry if I confused you.
I was going over the development page and got extremely excited when I read "Bringing back lost deities/titans". I then realized that this specific item is under the section for Creation Myths. Still a really neat thing I look forward to but it got me wondering;Yes, that's an in-game goal. Creation myths aren't just extra fluff for Legends Mode, they'll effect the actual world through magic systems, religions, magical biomes, artifacts and the ability for the player to actually effect Change in the world (like bringing back lost deities through ritual for example). Rituals are likely to be possible in both modes (but not in all worlds).
Are there plans or thoughts on "Bringing back lost deities/titans" as something achievable in fortress mode? I've done a little digging and cant find if there are plans (or not) for major 'ritual'-type goals for fortress mode.
Would such rituals be possible for NPCs in addition to players? The dev log seemed kinda vague on that. IMO magic-based cults attempting to resurrect lost titans of the ancient world would be really cool villains for adventurers to face on occasion.That'd presumably be an extension to the upcoming Villainous Plots development. DF is about simulating a world which you happen to be in, there's almost nothing that is meant just for a single player run fortress to experience (in the long-term).
I was going over the development page and got extremely excited when I read "Bringing back lost deities/titans". I then realized that this specific item is under the section for Creation Myths. Still a really neat thing I look forward to but it got me wondering;
Are there plans or thoughts on "Bringing back lost deities/titans" as something achievable in fortress mode? I've done a little digging and cant find if there are plans (or not) for major 'ritual'-type goals for fortress mode.
As for the next version we will be able to send dwarves to settle in occupied sites, how far away are we from dwarves leaving the fortress on their own, for discontentment, fear, etc?Emigration is likely to be a completely new mechanism without any ties to what's currently implemented when it eventually gets implemented (as I assume it will, at some time). After all, if they're leaving because of your ruthless rule, they're not going to want to move to a hillock under your thumb. Also, if it was implemented, a lot of overseers would be rather unhappy when the weapon smith they FINALLY managed to train to mastery decides to move elsewhere, in particular if there's no (sort of dependable) immigration process that can provide replacements (such as highly skilled visitor seeking citizenship), and ideally means to request such visitors.
If hill dwarf sites are in for next release, will you consider rebalancing farming so that you'll need to rely on those sites to feed your fortress also for next release?I kind of think it's going to wait until soil quality is tracked. Rebalancing right now could be difficult, potentially making the start of the game very hard.
I would expect DF to continue to be dwarf centric until the Myth&Magic support for other civs. If so, a possible outcome is that you'd end up with hillocks regardless, although there are other possible outcomes.
:
If your civ builds cities or forest retreats, will hamlets and such form around your fort instead? What if my civ lives in caves?
It should also be noted that required reliance on hillocks would cut out the viability of sealed fortresses and would make little sense in locations where hillocks would have significant trouble (such as a reanimating glacier). I agree with Bumber that any non trivial agriculture overhaul would probably wait until agriculture is overhauled (soil quality, nutrients, growth seasons and durations, etc.).If hill dwarf sites are in for next release, will you consider rebalancing farming so that you'll need to rely on those sites to feed your fortress also for next release?I kind of think it's going to wait until soil quality is tracked. Rebalancing right now could be difficult, potentially making the start of the game very hard.
So maybe during Map rewrite? Economy arc?
I would expect DF to continue to be dwarf centric until the Myth&Magic support for other civs. If so, a possible outcome is that you'd end up with hillocks regardless, although there are other possible outcomes.
:
If your civ builds cities or forest retreats, will hamlets and such form around your fort instead? What if my civ lives in caves?
I personally would hardly call dwarf fortress dwarf centric as toady tends to worry about all civs not just dwarves or player civs (other civs could already do all the things he’s enabling in dwarf mode now. He will probably generalize it Eg hamlets will pop up around cities (human) pits will show up around dark fortresses etc. he tends to generalize things.
Exciting devlog, i guess some people haven't been this excited since the worldmap opened up for the scope of features, before the magic arc nontheless!insurrections happen as a consequence of world activation (they happen all over the place, what toady is saying is that your site should be treated no differently), i dont expect there to be a notification either, personally.
If the primary method of founding the new government if from the handful of soldiers you send, outside the defined next release (as the devlog explains, thin for good measure) would you be able to manually "claim" empty settlements using civilian populations as a peaceful option given that the player can already send missions out to destroyed settlements to scavenge?
May or may not be worth fighting a resident dragon angrily guarding its clutch and loot who razed it in the first place, who knows? Im aware it sounds a tinge suggestiony but i guess its virtually similar to the reclaimation methods we have currently and what is already proposed so i may as well ask for the sake of picking your brains and what intention you might have going forward with the remaining hill dwarf goals. And i guess finally..
Will there be any inssurection interactions with your imposed group on the existing population?
Sort of excluding the logic that a entity transition change for fealty can be pretty much instant without piling on some dwarven propaganda books to bring them round to our way of thinking for something aspriationally less flexible. And beat up some rebellion sieges along the way.
Edit - (Oh i just re-read the devlog, there will be but in a theoretical sense, coolio, ill leave the question up in the hopes of a teeny bit more elaboration)QuoteI personally would hardly call dwarf fortress dwarf centric as toady tends to worry about all civs not just dwarves or player civs (other civs could already do all the things he’s enabling in dwarf mode now. He will probably generalize it Eg hamlets will pop up around cities (human) pits will show up around dark fortresses etc. he tends to generalize things.
They already do remotely (roam around and ask who's the local trading partner to point out the local city they're symbiotic to in adventure mode), but the ability for the AI to switch around and swap out trading partner hamlets for better army distribution by picking out soldiers when the main city gets low after a few wars with lots of surrounding towns would be really smart on the simulator's side.
insurrections happen as a consequence of world activation (they happen all over the place, what toady is saying is that your site should be treated no differently), i dont expect there to be a notification either, personally.
Sorry, when i say "your site" i mean any site you are occupying. Not your fort .insurrections happen as a consequence of world activation (they happen all over the place, what toady is saying is that your site should be treated no differently), i dont expect there to be a notification either, personally.
Well since a un-homogenized local population may have their own opinions which makes them more likely to join in with a insurrection or not with the point of perspective in adventure mode, it'll be interesting to see if anything comes out of it. Exiled cheesemaker hillock rebellions throwing giant molten gourds via catapults attacking the capital.
No notification would be a pity, suddenly disappearing off screen for little explanation would be outrageously difficult to deal with.
Will having hillocks around your site give advance warning of a sieges arrival?
Ah, thanks. Hm...Nothing linking it directly to hillock populations surrounding your fort and as it's in white so it's unlikely to be imminent.That whole top section is imminent. It's all the candidates for pre-mythgen (as in, right now) additions. Some of it might not make it due to time, but Toady's given himself an extension on the current "small updates" phase to around October. Mythgen development will be long, so he wants this big chunk of the army arc in before he starts to keep us amused.
Wait, you said memory doesn't do much, I'm not just imagining things when it seems to help retain more of the "previously viewed but not visible" layout especially when deep in a catacomb or sewer, am I?
Can we expect new magical materials, like mithril or sapient pearwood, from which to make weapons? And other stuff I guess.
Will we ever be able to encrust our weapons with gems? Incorporating magical gems into sword pommels seems a pretty common trope in fantasy settings.
What's the current rationale for travel (fast travel, caravans, and embarking) through mountains being blocked? I assumed initially it had to do with provisions, but deserts can be crossed with ease, and mountains do not frequently have difficult cliffs, or any less forageable resources than elsewhere (adventurers still get hungry and thirsty as they normally do off mountains, right?)
If the current behavior is unintended, is the direction you'd like to take in justifying the limitation (mountains generating such that it is a lot more difficult to traverse, high altitude hazards, etc) or just opening mountains to travel?
Once temperatures are more meaningful and magic is in, will creatures otherwise unaffected by temperatures, out of sync with reality, beyond time, etc by impacted by temperatures below absolute zero? Just wondering since those temperatures are currently possible.
1. Is it possible with the magic world generation to create very strange worlds? Like worlds that have no sun and are cast into eternal darkness or worlds comprised of floating islands over a sea of lava and FUN. (or just some floating islands in general... because building a fortress that hangs under a floating island just sounds awesome)
2. Will we eventually see more complex reaction between civilizations and races. Like people generating stereotypes and hatred for certain races and groups based on interactions? Or say a race of elves living isolated for their entire history meeting a human adventure for the first time thus having no idea what a human is.
3. Will language be expanded on like music and such. Being randomly generated and having to be taught/learned? It be interesting to see if one language rises to the top of the heap to become that worlds version of 'common' Or if the myth/history generate makes a single world language that was created by a god for the people to use. Also maybe species with langagues that can't be spoken or understood by others do some some biological reasion.
Now that the dwarves are able to get traumatised again and not nerve-stapled by alcohol, are we likely to see an update to socialising that allows dwarves to make friends/etc while not idle, seeing as dwarves are rarely actually idle these days?
Quote from: WhatsifsowhatsitI think even in worlds where there is a 'true' myth/religion, there will be plenty of people who have a different idea of how things work. It's not just in myth-low worlds, worlds without gods, etc., where different non-real ideas should be generated, I feel. People come up with their own ideas of how things work, even if they're not real (we can see this is true even without assuming an atheistic view of the real world just from the simple fact that there exist mutually exclusive ideas/religions). I don't think the presence of a 'real' myth or god(s) should change that.
I've seen Toady make diverse statements in this regard, so I just thought I'd throw in my two cents. If anybody knows how to make this into an actual question, please be my guest.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWithin the myth and general belief systems of each civ, will there be room for interpretation of the myth or emphasis on parts of the myth that differ on an individual or entity wide scale within the same civ? Is that perhaps something for Starting Scenarios and it's various culture/society development points?
(I know the initial world myth is one 'truth' that's interpreted by each civ, but I mean on a more granular scale within each civilization).
1. I saw in the development plans that adventure mode might be getting ridable mounts at some point in the future. How will this affect NPCs? Will we see knights riding horses or mounted bandits and stuff like that in adventure mode? Also, if you had an amphibious mount, could you cross the ocean with it on the world map? Would that affect civilizations and let them colonize or attack other continents? It might be a good placeholder for cross-continental travel until boats are implemented.
2. Are there any plans to let the player teach secrets they learn in worldgen before the magic arc?
3. Mountain roads are currently impassible for adventure mode characters (in the world map anyways), but will NPC groups like armies that would otherwise be separated by a mountain range be able to use them to cross the mountains?
4. Regarding the addition of hillocks to a fortress's surroundings, what will happen to modded civilizations that use, say, hamlets and cities as their site type? Would a fortress belonging to that civilization spawn hamlets, or hillocks? Or would there be errors and bugs in such an event?
When adventure pets goes in, will it including lifting animals? Will adventurers be able to be included in cattle raiding and the like by snatching stray chickens in villages? Will there be stocking fish in ponds since vermin fish are often sold as an item already?
Has Ars Magica ever sparked your interest? Did you read, or plan to read some material on the setting and the game mechanic?
For the farther future:
Because if I ever get a chance to regrow my dwarves limbs I will abuse it:
Will there be conditions on how many times something can be the target of a spell? Can we try to congeal a bucket of water and get told "The substance has become magically inert."? Or try to heal our companion for the thousandth time and get "This creature has become saturated with energy."?
Also because sometimes it feels like I'm getting attacked for very little reason, Is there any plans for forcing emotional state without altering memories? The straight eared goblin suddenly feels calm. Can we otherwise make someone forget what they are doing?
Toady talks a bit about keeping players free, but still letting dwarves have an identity, Do you feel magic mechanisms and machines feel "dwarfy"? Is it something that feels appropriate, or something to tolerate like venom and poison?
For the closer future:
Dwarves are a disorganized mess in combat, while this is understandable, Are we going to see some effects of the tactician skill in the fortress before jumping on to magic? Will we be able to make dwarves hold their ground against a force?
On a similar note, Will dwarves be able to take cover from missile fire and still have LOS, firing, using something other than fortifications? Boulders? Buildings? Tables? Trees? Large dead bodies?
Quote from: Death DragonSo as far as I can see, the administration of sites outside of your fortress seems to be one of the current things that are being worked on.
What exactly are the current goals you have in mind for the administration feature? I mean what kind of abilities will this give access to the player? I think I heard of requesting/sending migrants and soldiers. Is this about what to expect in the next releases?Quote from: thvazAs for the next version we will be able to send dwarves to settle in occupied sites, how far away are we from dwarves leaving the fortress on their own, for discontentment, fear, etc?Quote from: Eric BlankWe're finally getting hill dwarves and interactions with them, but what sort of interactions did you have in mind? Will hillocks be able to provide laborers and soldiers, can we send laborers to them, or like tributes of food and plant/animal products? Do we run all the defence for them, or do they use their own militias when possible?
Do we get a liaison or messenger role to communicate with them?
What prerequisites will they have? Like is a land holder position always necessary, or were you introducing a new tag to control their formation?
If your civ builds cities or forest retreats, will hamlets and such form around your fort instead? What if my civ lives in caves?Quote from: CaptainArchmageNow that we'll be able to interact with and create hill dwarf sites, will we have a means to store and retrieve excessive items off-map (say, in a hill dwarf site)?Quote from: DGWill having hillocks around your site give advance warning of a sieges arrival? Will hostile armies drive people in these hillocks to the (assumed) greater safety of your fort site, like people in a town running to a citadel, or is it not that sort of relationship?
<screenshot of polite discussion and ascension to throne>
It made me wonder, as it's not the first fortress in which i had a king choosen like that and as far as i remember it had happened for a few years already.
As historically a pretender reaching an understanding with his rivals in "polite discussion" in order to be choosen as a king wasn't really the only way this happened, will we see in the future many more methods a dwarven pretender can rise on a throne in your own fortress (i mean at gameplay time in opposite to worldgen) ?
It seems to me like you would run into problems trying to balance stress because some players want stress to be a difficult to handle problem with big consequences and other players would rather want it to be more easily handled and their dwarves not constantly falling into depression.
Are you going to try to find some kind of middle ground that could maybe satisfy everyone or would you consider implementing something like a slider that controls how prone people in the world are to stressing out?
Any hope for methods of exploring the map around us?
Send an expedition to the east and discover a kobold cave we never heard about?
Quote from: meEvery so often a dwarf can "remember/relive/dwell upon" the memory, if their personality leans toward the given emotion (positive or negative), and receive an additional stress change.In the devblog on memories, you mentioned that the thoughts dwarves dwell upon depend on the personality of the dwarves. Does that mean we can mod stress impact levels indirectly by altering personality raws? Or would that only result in subtle shifts overall?
As an example, one of my citizens "believes taking time off to relax is evil" (or something very similar, not in front of my computer right now). How much less impact is socializing giving him than a regular dorf who loves merrymaking?
<The quote> theoretically should mean that personalities leaning towards violence and killing stuff, should get positive reactions from dead bodies.
But I'm pretty sure the personality system isn't that flexible. I was just wondering how flexible it could be. And how much personality could actually shift stress impact (besides 'not prone to stress').
1. Of the pre myth and magic update feature candidates remaining which ones if any of them do you think will enhance the first pass of the myth and magic update? For example one recently added feature that might enhance the first pass is being able to see what our adventurers are thinking which may be affected by magic.
2. What types of mages do you think will be available to play as in the first pass of the myth and magic update and which do you think will have to wait till the second pass? Also I'd like to hear your reasoning for this answer.
3. In the myth and magic update will new types structures be generated for housing magical artifacts that aren't directly tied to an existing civilization? For example a temple created by gods to house a magic staff.
4. In terms of the magic items that don't seem to be artificially made such as the example of the cosmic egg pieces how do you plan to handle their placement assuming there's no artificial structure made to house them? Can an adventurer just be walking through the woods and find a powerful magic item just lying on the ground?
At its current state, how feasible would it be to convert biome generation into a raw-based system? Have you considered this in the past?
Do you plan to expand adventurer banditry? (Right now when you join a bandit gang the bandit leader basically acts just like a lord and gives you the same tasks as a lord which don't always make much sense for a bandit)
Can non-dwarf citizens of your civilization come to your fort as migrants? If not, why can't they?
Farther into the horizon:
Do you like the idea of actually generating the music that dwarves make and playing it during gameplay? Do you think using tools like Magenta make it feasible?
Right now however:
Will visitors and diplomats be able to start trouble? Will we be able to punish visitors and maybe demand reparations from a diplomats civilization?
What happened to DF talk? Was it more that it's difficult to organize with you and rainseeker/captain being busy or is it more that you ran out of questions and topics to discuss?
1. In terms of magical crafting in the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be forms of magic crafting that require stationary work areas such as an alchemy lab or run scribing table? If so would an adventurer in those worlds be able to participate in magic crafting if they found one of those work areas or would such crafting be fortress mode only?
2. Will it be possible in some worlds for civilizations to create magic buildings for use defending or improving the well being of their sites? For example a magic savvy civilization might make a tower to put a force field around their sites to keep unwanted visitors out or a tower that improves crop yield in their farms?
3. In the first pass of the myth and magic update might some forms of magic be affected by what an adventurer is feeling? For example one magic might be more effective if an adventurer is happy and less if they are sad?
4. Might our adventurer's relationships with npcs in the first pass of the myth and magic update affect how effective some forms of magic are? For example a harming spell might be more effective against someone you really hate?
1. Since the magic update plans to include the possibility of entire regions changing due to magical influence, would it be possible to apply this system to simulate more gradual, natural regional changes? For example, desertification, rivers changing course, glaciers advancing and receding, etc. (this question might have been asked before, if it was, feel free to disregard it)
2. Currently, worldgen adventurers seem to be able to recover artifacts from ruined sites. Would it be possible to expand their behavior to also include the generalized ability to behave as looters and steal regular items? Right now, it seems that a site can be abandoned for a thousand years and it'll still have all of it's fine steel equipment neatly piled up in the barracks, untouched.
3. Is some kind of ruin overhaul in the plans for the next few releases in general, in the sense of actually simulating decay through the ages? Right now, they just feel like ordinary sites, just without any inhabitants.
4. Will world-ending artifacts be a thing? How would they be balanced?
Now that memories can change a dwarf's personality facets, what kinds of changes will we most likely see? Will specific memories be much more likely to change facets tied to the kind of memory, or will it be more random? Will this happen at all during world-gen?
Will the player be able to become the master and hire there own apprentices.
Hi Toady, a question about the myth generator (not that you were lacking any).
Do you intend to allow the forces / tools / aspects of deities to be personified?
Like the loom used to shape fate being both a loom and an individual.
If so, how do you think you'll make it reliably interesting?
Is there any plans in the near future to be able to get skilled craftsmen in the visitors who can petition to stay for work?
Quote from: SlapFactoryI was going over the development page and got extremely excited when I read "Bringing back lost deities/titans". I then realized that this specific item is under the section for Creation Myths. Still a really neat thing I look forward to but it got me wondering;
Are there plans or thoughts on "Bringing back lost deities/titans" as something achievable in fortress mode? I've done a little digging and cant find if there are plans (or not) for major 'ritual'-type goals for fortress mode.Quote from: PlumpHelmetManWould such rituals be possible for NPCs in addition to players? The dev log seemed kinda vague on that. IMO magic-based cults attempting to resurrect lost titans of the ancient world would be really cool villains for adventurers to face on occasion.
Cults currently exist in the form of vampire cults, is it planned for there to be "cults" formed around titans and such that will use the myth system and actually actively try to bring back their masters, there was a threetoe story about this
http://bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_wedding.html
"Wedding of Doom"
Is this something we can be pretty sure we will be seeing in the magic update
Will vampire cults try to bring back their masters?
Or will these things be kept at an individual rather then collective level. (eg the cult wont work together towards this common goal but instead individuals will try to do it on their own)
One more question (yes i know ive been on a bit of a question spree :P )
After seeing a weird screenshot on the adventure mode subforum I have a observation: Bogeymen no longer make any sense now that individual AI adventurers are wandering around taking on quests for artifacts and killing things and not being attacked by bogeymen (it also means if say you and an AI both had a quest for an artifact that was hidden in an old swamp the AI has a better chance (unfair advantage) at finding it since they dont need to stop in a town). Any plans to rework that mechanic for it to make more sense and so that human players are no longer the only adventurers actually effected by this. (also for those who dont know, yes AI adventurers now take on artifact quests just like players while you are playing)
If the primary method of founding the new government if from the handful of soldiers you send, outside the defined next release (as the devlog explains, thin for good measure) would you be able to manually "claim" empty settlements using civilian populations as a peaceful option given that the player can already send missions out to destroyed settlements to scavenge?
May or may not be worth fighting a resident dragon angrily guarding its clutch and loot who razed it in the first place, who knows? Im aware it sounds a tinge suggestiony but i guess its virtually similar to the reclaimation methods we have currently and what is already proposed so i may as well ask for the sake of picking your brains and what intention you might have going forward with the remaining hill dwarf goals. And i guess finally..
Will there be any inssurection interactions with your imposed group on the existing population?
That ars geekery picture is far too cute, from one grown man to another.Don't forget the, let's make a cute dig-dug style side project, oh hey 30 year ultra-detailed fantasy world simulator project.
Honestly just waiting and geeking out over the latest "let's make minecarts, whoops physics" with the "lets fix memories, oh hey character arcs!" thing.
Technically speaking, what are the obstacles in the way of implementing a "world-gen unpause" button?limegreen if that's a question you want answered.
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
In your talk today, you started to talk about the major difficulties that you have to overcome and concluded that skipping another 1000 years after playing for a bit (returning to worldgen) is 'pretty hard'. I certainly think you're right in that lots of people want to see this someday, but is it something you think you're going to attempt one day or by 'hard' do you mean you just can't conceive of how you might even attempt such a thing?
Nah, we might try it. The pure dumping of all the refined post w.g. data and going back to world gen isn't the hard part, it's more choosing which data to dump and doing that gracefully or in stages (I think I might have mentioned the problem of starting a 1000 year advance and then bailing out after 5 years, which would leave a shell of your former world if the data is dumped). Well, the pure dump isn't *easy*, some care must be taken, but having some stark button like "I commit to a 100 year advance" is certainly in the realm of not-impossible things.
Recently I have been thinking about constellations and stars.
In Fortress mode there are some dwarfs that have a poor spatial sense and in Adventure mode character creation, Spacial Sense is one of the attributes that I can change. So, there is the posibility that npcs and/or our characters could get lost in the world. Have you considered to included a firmament in worldgen to help them knowing the north cardinal or something like this? I believe it would be great for boat release!
For other hand, in a lot of cultures, myths are represented and inmortalized by agrupations of stars, the constellations. Is it posible that one only firmament has various constellation systems, one for each religion? Or same constellation with different meaning by each culture?
And a last cuestion. Maybe a ritual would needs as a main condition the alineation of stars to invoque a great devil and our adventure party must stop them, to priests and worshipers, before the fatidic night. Is this scenario part of your plans?
Technically speaking, what are the obstacles in the way of implementing a "world-gen unpause" button?
Technically speaking, what are the obstacles in the way of implementing a "world-gen unpause" button?limegreen if that's a question you want answered.
Although, there is a detailed technical reply somewhere which Toady gave previously. Just seeing if I can dig it out.
That is, if by "unpause" you mean "return to fast worldgen to skip several years". Worldgen is always "unpaused", it's kind of the whole point of DF.
--edit
OK, here's the answer from this thread, but it's based on something from a video as I thought.
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/L67Xb4tgVv8
(It's all interesting, but restarting worldgen starts at about 1:01:00).
Here's my question about it:QuoteQuote from: Shonai_Dweller
In your talk today, you started to talk about the major difficulties that you have to overcome and concluded that skipping another 1000 years after playing for a bit (returning to worldgen) is 'pretty hard'. I certainly think you're right in that lots of people want to see this someday, but is it something you think you're going to attempt one day or by 'hard' do you mean you just can't conceive of how you might even attempt such a thing?
Nah, we might try it. The pure dumping of all the refined post w.g. data and going back to world gen isn't the hard part, it's more choosing which data to dump and doing that gracefully or in stages (I think I might have mentioned the problem of starting a 1000 year advance and then bailing out after 5 years, which would leave a shell of your former world if the data is dumped). Well, the pure dump isn't *easy*, some care must be taken, but having some stark button like "I commit to a 100 year advance" is certainly in the realm of not-impossible things.
Recently I have been thinking about constellations and stars.
In Fortress mode there are some dwarfs that have a poor spatial sense and in Adventure mode character creation, Spacial Sense is one of the attributes that I can change. So, there is the posibility that npcs and/or our characters could get lost in the world. Have you considered to included a firmament in worldgen to help them knowing the north cardinal or something like this? I believe it would be great for boat release!
For other hand, in a lot of cultures, myths are represented and inmortalized by agrupations of stars, the constellations. Is it posible that one only firmament has various constellation systems, one for each religion? Or same constellation with different meaning by each culture?
And a last cuestion. Maybe a ritual would needs as a main condition the alineation of stars to invoque a great devil and our adventure party must stop them, to priests and worshipers, before the fatidic night. Is this scenario part of your plans?
Welcome to the forums, FrankVill. To be completely fair, these sound less like questions regarding the current development cycle and more like suggestions, for which we already have a subforum.
Mechanics that affect how your character is (role)played had been taken into consideration before, but given that we already have the minimap the only sensible approach I find for that lack of Spatial Sense would be to turn it into a more limited feature (or basically, make it work like it formerly did).
I believe there are DFTalks where Toady has discussed the possibility to expand the skies beyond our current sun and moon. The Mythgen might help us go there, as there could be some worlds where not even starts are being genned. I understand it could be easy to implement the cultural impact of different stars in a way that resembles the different pantheons that exist in each culture, and one thing could be developed alongside the other to add flavor and significance to each race. We'll have to see what happens when we get there, and that could entail any game mechanic that could sprout from this (such as the demonic ritual you mentioned earlier).
You see the 2017 video I linked to and the word "today" in my question? Well...Technically speaking, what are the obstacles in the way of implementing a "world-gen unpause" button?limegreen if that's a question you want answered.
Although, there is a detailed technical reply somewhere which Toady gave previously. Just seeing if I can dig it out.
That is, if by "unpause" you mean "return to fast worldgen to skip several years". Worldgen is always "unpaused", it's kind of the whole point of DF.
--edit
OK, here's the answer from this thread, but it's based on something from a video as I thought.
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/L67Xb4tgVv8
(It's all interesting, but restarting worldgen starts at about 1:01:00).
Here's my question about it:QuoteQuote from: Shonai_Dweller
In your talk today, you started to talk about the major difficulties that you have to overcome and concluded that skipping another 1000 years after playing for a bit (returning to worldgen) is 'pretty hard'. I certainly think you're right in that lots of people want to see this someday, but is it something you think you're going to attempt one day or by 'hard' do you mean you just can't conceive of how you might even attempt such a thing?
Nah, we might try it. The pure dumping of all the refined post w.g. data and going back to world gen isn't the hard part, it's more choosing which data to dump and doing that gracefully or in stages (I think I might have mentioned the problem of starting a 1000 year advance and then bailing out after 5 years, which would leave a shell of your former world if the data is dumped). Well, the pure dump isn't *easy*, some care must be taken, but having some stark button like "I commit to a 100 year advance" is certainly in the realm of not-impossible things.
Did you ask that question before or after we got world activation?
I promise I'll shut my mouth about Ars Magica after this one
1. How exactly does the FLEEING usage hint work? From what I can tell, it affects the full spectrum of "fear" reactions, so civilized creatures that see you walk nearby while, say, brandishing a weapon (They usually say something like "A weapon? That's alarming!" to signify this) or something similarly not overtly threatening, will use any FLEEING interactions they have, even if said interaction is, say, transforming into a giant demon or something crazy like that. Obviously the vanilla game didn't have plans for this considering the octopus's ink is the only interaction with the FLEEING tag as far as I know, but is this hint meant to be so trigger-happy?
2. What are the plans for the bandit forts and improved necromancer towers, if they are implemented? Will they function essentially as tiny civilizations, demanding tribute and starting wars and such?
3. Will we be getting any other adventure mode crafting functionalities prior to the Big Wait? Like tanning leather/making clothing/milking and butchering animals, stuff like that.
I assume the release is only a couple of weeks away, but just in case:I'd imagine that this is what " (so they need land access, as well as correct biome squares nearby.) " refers to.
Will new hillocks always respect the [SETTLEMENT_BIOME] of modded civs?
In contrast to regular dorfs, my Wild Dwarves would choose the swamp over the grassland in worldgen. Hoping for consistency there. :)
Ah yes, that would be it! So long as it's not hard coded to assume vanilla dorfs. I assume not.I assume the release is only a couple of weeks away, but just in case:I'd imagine that this is what " (so they need land access, as well as correct biome squares nearby.) " refers to.
Will new hillocks always respect the [SETTLEMENT_BIOME] of modded civs?
In contrast to regular dorfs, my Wild Dwarves would choose the swamp over the grassland in worldgen. Hoping for consistency there. :)
I think I heard somewhere magic will be a skill like combat or labor skills; will there be zombie/skeleton/thrall mages?Anything related to magic will be procedurally generated. Depends on the world.
The know that procedural generation isn't magic, right? Just because things will be procgen doesn't mean we can expect absolutely anything at all to be possible. So it's a fair question.I know, he just worded it like he thought that magic would only be castable with a skill.
If I retire my adventurer in a hillocks linked to a player fortress (assuming I become a citizen first, of course) will the adventurer be available for...whatever it is hill dwarves are available to do when I unretire that fortress?I'm going to guess that it is unlikely, unless/until Toady implements adventurers presenting petitions to join sites, much like the petitions you receive in fort mode. That's the most closest at-hand feature that involves explicitly linking a unit to a site that I can think of right now, being developed in the nearer future if close. Does that sound accurate, Toady?
Devlog says "Civilian exchange" with hillocks is in 44.11 (probably). If an adventurer is a citizen of said hillocks, that makes him available for exchanges and later recruiting into armies and whatever other mechanics Toady's adding without need for anything new, doesn't it?If I retire my adventurer in a hillocks linked to a player fortress (assuming I become a citizen first, of course) will the adventurer be available for...whatever it is hill dwarves are available to do when I unretire that fortress?I'm going to guess that it is unlikely, unless/until Toady implements adventurers presenting petitions to join sites, much like the petitions you receive in fort mode. That's the most closest at-hand feature that involves explicitly linking a unit to a site that I can think of right now, being developed in the nearer future if close. Does that sound accurate, Toady?
Have you thought about making a FOTF FAQ?In a way I can see why there isn't one. What Toady says this month is true, but he's free to change his mind any time and if the info is buried somewhere, it doesn't matter too much. Vague dev notes are much less stressful, I expect. Still, right now I'd like there to be a Mythgen Faq. Spending the next three years watching you tell people repeatedly that each world will be different might get annoying.
With the new myths system will we see religious wars between civs, heresy and inquisition? Religious conflicts inside our fortresses. Official fortress religion and possible attack from our capital government in case if our point of view is different to theirs.I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
...I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
Given that we currently have civ panthea, they'll have to be replaced, but I wouldn't expect more than that in that arc.
Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?Combat styles
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Quote from: DevlogDo you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?Combat styles
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
In particular, do you suppose the combat styles noted are a series of actions like how the current version largely supports Kisat Dur as a combat style (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148015.0), or will these be more particular actions?Quote from: DevlogCombat styles
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?
Apart from personal exchanges along the lines of arguing over values I don't see room for addition of religious conflict infrastructure in the first arc. It's something that would fit better in with other internal fortress structures, such as guilds. I'd expect movements dedicated to deities to basically be introduced in the first arc, but them engaging in warfare/conflict against each other in any organized form to be introduced at all levels in a later arc....I wouldn't expect the first arc to cover this, but "merely" prepare some of the ground for it. These things are civ level interactions that seem to be more in line with e.g. starting scenarios as well as further civ level development (politics?). The first Myth & Magic arc isn't exactly waiting for contents to fill it out...
Given that we currently have civ panthea, they'll have to be replaced, but I wouldn't expect more than that in that arc.
But what about religious conflicts between dwarves inside player fortresses?
The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this? Possible. For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline. With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast... it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position. Seems okay so far. I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
Firstly, this is a suggestion rather than a question about the plans, so it fits better in the suggestion forum (which Toady reads, as far as I understand).The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this? Possible. For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline. With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast... it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position. Seems okay so far. I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
Question about messengers: When they are out on theyr mission and encounter hostiles (Armies, undead, titans, nighcreatures) will they report those? I imagine theyr coding will them make them walk by but on the returntrip (given that they are alive) will they tell you the news?I suspect they won't encounter hostiles initially, but just magically pass through them, as messengers have the same issue as raiding parties, namely the need for coding logic for encounters. For messengers it would at least mean getting caught (and interrogated, or just tortured for fun...), killed, or passing unnoticed. It's less unbalanced to slip through as a ghost without issues than to slip through as an untouchable ghost that then reports back on what's seen.
Yeah, I was kinda worried about the distinction between suggestion and future of the fortress here. Sorry about that. Thanks for the information!Firstly, this is a suggestion rather than a question about the plans, so it fits better in the suggestion forum (which Toady reads, as far as I understand).The raws exist as a slider currently (setting stress vulnerability, for example), and I'm not sure what the myth sliders will end up looking like; does what the "violence level" slider become enter into this? Possible. For now, I'd just like to provide some non-broken texture and occasional problem dwarves, and heavy issues for those experimental forts where people intentionally mistreat their dwarves as a kind of baseline. With the next release, we should be a bit closer, though there's a possibility that people might be too happy again if they process their emotions too fast... it's hard to run sufficient long-enough tests from my position. Seems okay so far. I certainly don't expect that everyone will be satisfied, but the base stress vulnerability will always be moddable.Since stress is already on a slider, and people seemingly aren't going to agree on how much stress a dwarf should be able to take, are you considering opening the slider for stress threshold to the players? Obviously the thought trains have to be fixed, but after that, it would be nice to get more direct control over how stressed your dwarves can get, according to your own personal preference.
Secondly, Toady mentions that the raws exist as a slider: i.e. that you're free to adjust the raw contents to your liking, not that there's a single number you'd just adjust. Presumably, Toady's balancing aims at making what's in the raws in vanilla DF to meet the goals described. Since save game compatibility is a high priority, raw numbers are probably not going to be adjusted in the vanilla version without a very good reason, so the adjustments will be done internally.
You can make some kind of script to go through the raws to change them according to your principles (and if you think it's reasonably useful to others you can post it as a third party utility).
I have no problem imagining magic based on stress. Or suffering and pain.
Is this something you think about as a possible base for magic ?
Power not from focus, or knowledge, or even from innate ability. But from angst.Something that might appear in a crappy fantasy novel written by a 13-year-old. So it's probably in.
"It's not a generic bad fantasy universe. It's a generic bad fantasy universe generator." :pPower not from focus, or knowledge, or even from innate ability. But from angst.Something that might appear in a crappy fantasy novel written by a 13-year-old. So it's probably in.
In low or no-magic worlds, the magma sea would be the absolute bottom rather than the spoiler.I imagine it just wouldn't exist along with the caverns seeing as the most humans would ever get to digging would be sewers (and perhaps mines). Build tall and wide, paint the map with your shade of ascii!
But won't "humans breaking into the caverns while digging a sewer and having to fight back against monsters" make for a good plot?The day real world humans break into the caverns and have to fight back against the monsters, yes.
First time asking questions and unsure if anyone has asked (or has been answered) these but...2. Probably not. I'd expect those issues to be tackled when vanilla generated fortress playable races can get the corresponding traits and gaits. You already can get such citizens through petitions, but it's probably not a sufficiently pressing issue to take priority over all the other things vying for attention.
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2. Will the Fortress Mode AI Pathing for Swimming, Climbing, and Flying be fixed before the Magic Update?
3. If we have a Werebeast in our fort and send them out to a hillock, will they eventually worm their way back to fight or cause problems in the hillocks?
I honestly don't know what those acronyms mean.Fixed/broke that for you.
What's the strange textbox that comes up upon pressing Ctrl+s?Save macro (recorded with ctrl-r to start/stop recording). Type a name into the strange box.
Will we see some sort of epidemics in th egame any time in the future
Slade, adamantine, and the spoiler in general will be procgen. Replaced by generated materials. Or in some worlds, the spoiler would be totally different or would not exist at all. Hell, maybe some worlds would be based on giant floating islands floating in the void and digging too deep would simply cause your miner to fall into the void and die. That sort of thing.
Hey Toady, good work on the update.
What is the difference between vassal sites and economically linked sites? Economically linked ones are the ones that peacefully align themselves to you, right? Do they have/ will they have the same uses as normal vassal sites or will they have other, different uses?
Did you already decide what you'll work on in the immediate future? More improving/fixing/tweaking of the site administration stuff or will you jump straight to the next feature?
Did you conclude more about how you'll handle mounts in the game? How to balance player control vs the animal having its own mind and whether mounts will come to fort mode before the big wait or only to adventure mode?
Do exile ethical reprecussions now utilise the expulsion mechanic in fortress mode to make people leave? i've not had opportunity to try but i am curious to enquire whether its a fine minor detail you implemented and forgot to point out/left behind for players to find. Maybe i was reading too much into it perhaps.
Quote from: Seperate Question
Do exile ethical reprecussions now utilise the expulsion mechanic in fortress mode to make people leave? i've not had opportunity to try but i am curious to enquire whether its a fine minor detail you implemented and forgot to point out/left behind for players to find. Maybe i was reading too much into it perhaps.
Is it actually possible to get dorfs to break any of the ethics and suffer the repercussions right now?
Kill_Entity_Member never seems to result in capital punishment right now (unless accidentally killed by beating) and I'm not sure which (if any) ethic dorfs who miss a mandate deadline are breaking (or if it can be changed).
You could try making Assault punishable by Exile I guess. That might work (if indeed, it actually does work now - which I'm fairly doubtful of).
--edit
Oh, wiki says it's oath_breaking for mandate skipping. I guess that's not working then as it's set at "Punish_capital" but only seems to result in a sometimes fatal beating (and not at all if your hammerer is armed with a candy hammer).
Ow that's a lot for Toady to answerHuh, I thought my questions were nothing compared to the flood of myth gen/ magic related questions he gets, but alright, I rephrased my questions a bit to make them clearer because I think you kinda missed the point on them.
Punish_capital is execution, which if memory serves requires a hammerer/modded equivilentYes, so it seems that either dwarves are really reluctant executioners or punish_capital isn't working. Death by hammerer very much comes across as accidental.
What is the range for "nearby" sites joining you?It's not supposed to work with other civs yet (but currently does anyway, leading to some buggy behavior).
Does it work with sites who's parent civ you are at war with?
How mod-able do you intend the first pass of the myth gen and magic to be?There will be a fixed world editor in which you can add your own myth, your own artifacts, your own historical figures and so on to create an exact non-procedural fantasy world. I guess not right away, although he said it's a possibility.
I ask because in the suggestion forums it was suggested that the first pass was going to be less/un mod-able.
I know that what is intended might not make the finale cut but as someone with a desire to mod in a specific magic system (Dominions 4) I'm really curious as to what the "goal" is in term of mod-ability.
What prototype modding features? I don't remember it being in the interview, was the prototype made available?In the video (GDC 2016, maybe?)
Well, info is all scattered about, but here's two replies touching on mods from the past few months, one of which definitely disputes the assumption made in that thread that nothing in Mythgen will ever be moddable:How mod-able do you intend the first pass of the myth gen and magic to be?There will be a fixed world editor in which you can add your own myth, your own artifacts, your own historical figures and so on to create an exact non-procedural fantasy world. I guess not right away, although he said it's a possibility.
I ask because in the suggestion forums it was suggested that the first pass was going to be less/un mod-able.
I know that what is intended might not make the finale cut but as someone with a desire to mod in a specific magic system (Dominions 4) I'm really curious as to what the "goal" is in term of mod-ability.
Prototype mythgen already has basic modding features for generating procgen worlds, but yeah, would be nice to see what's planned overall (have a feeling the same question was answered a month or two back actually - will check).
I'm not sure what the first magic system raws will look like, so it's a bit early to say. It's going to need a large change, but the existing interaction/syndrome framework will probably survive, even if interactions get hammered quite a bit. I'm going to focus on straightforward support for the new effects, rather than trying to overload existing tools, but I'm sure that'll come up from time to time.
[Quote from: Random_Dragon]
Suppose you have a mod that changes entities to behave in a specific way that is required for some other aspect of the mod to function. Moreover, suppose that the future myth generator would potentially completely break this entity by forcing it to use hardcoded generated critters, entity tokens and such.
Is there going to be any way for a raw mod to restrict how mythgen is handled, so that if you want to FORCE the game to use certain civs it'll do so, regardless of mythgen settings?
The reason I ask this is because if this option does not exist, the myth arc is almost guaranteed to break pretty much every civ-focused raw mod in existence, and counting on the user to advanced-worldgen more "vanilla" worlds is not an optimal solution.
To be clear, I'm sure the myth release is going to break a ton of mods initially whether I address this particular concern or not. That is a given. Saves will also not survive.
I'm not sure what specific tag scenario you are imagining here, so it's hard to say what's going to happen. We've mentioned certain ways that a specific object (say, the dwarf) will be able to communicate restrictions up to the larger vanilla myth settings (by requesting, say, earth-related magics), without needing to change the settings themselves. There are other possibilities depending on what you mean. If somebody installs a mod, we could also provide ways for the mod to generally speak to or override params, since the installation of a mod is a buy-in at that point, though especially once we are messing around with editors and so forth, some in-DF handling of different mod folders/etc. on some kind of separated basis of the various kinds suggested over the years might need another look. With some degree of that, total conversion style mods should be able to side step myth gen entirely (this is also implicit in the notion of editors, so some form of it is definitely going in with those.) So, I wouldn't be concerned, but the first release will by bumpy (for a zillion reasons.)
Hm. Link to the video?What prototype modding features? I don't remember it being in the interview, was the prototype made available?In the video (GDC 2016, maybe?)
C'mon man. Harness that innate Google power....Hm. Link to the video?What prototype modding features? I don't remember it being in the interview, was the prototype made available?In the video (GDC 2016, maybe?)
-Snip-
It's a procedurally generated fantasy world generator. It's entire existence is (will be) geared to ensuring each world is unique. Yeah, you'll be able to limit the creation process a certain way with raws probably, but if you want a world that's fixed in place, you're better off making one with the editor. Well, both will be an option, so it's win-win I guess.-Snip-
Thank you for the quick and insight full reply, I only hope there is enough player control to not be force to accept a magic system we don't like.
I mean I'll likely play a couple with "maxed" magic just to see the chaos but given that I already make certain changes every time I play to suit my tastes it'd suck to be stuck with random magic systems.
If all else fails, remember that it will be RNG. You could reroll the world until you get something you like if the editor does not arrive on the first pass.
It's a procedurally generated fantasy world generator. It's entire existence is (will be) geared to ensuring each world is unique. Yeah, you'll be able to limit the creation process a certain way with raws probably, but if you want a world that's fixed in place, you're better off making one with the editor. Well, both will be an option, so it's win-win I guess.
To focus on the very, very distant future for a second:Boats are up before Economy right now (since last mentioned in both PC Gamer interview and 10th anniversary video).
You've talked enthusiastically about Boats many times, mainly with regards to how difficult they would be (as they're essentially fortresses that move/rotate). They'll clearly come well after Myth/Magic, but they're also not even on the Development Page, which currently contains enough material to keep you busy for years, if not decades. Does this mean Boats are so far off as to be unlikely to be seen this side of 2050, or will you re-evaluate the direction of development after finishing up the (amazing sounding) Myth and Magic arc?
So...8-10 years?
There was a video someplace recently where I think he said 5-6 years to starting on Scenarios.So...8-10 years?
I'm amazed that that's actually closer than I would've guessed! :P
Is the last release the last release before Magic, or do you plan something else before ?Dev notes.
I'm sure i have seen someone giving details on the first but i can't find it...
What kind of interactions with Hillocks can we expect this time around? Can we exile a criminal to the hills (or even out of the kingdom)? Would the hills ask for squads to protect them during a siege, will them be affected by sieges in your fort? Will their citizens try to move to your fort?
Recently I have been thinking about constellations and stars.
In Fortress mode there are some dwarfs that have a poor spatial sense and in Adventure mode character creation, Spacial Sense is one of the attributes that I can change. So, there is the posibility that npcs and/or our characters could get lost in the world. Have you considered to included a firmament in worldgen to help them knowing the north cardinal or something like this? I believe it would be great for boat release!
For other hand, in a lot of cultures, myths are represented and inmortalized by agrupations of stars, the constellations. Is it posible that one only firmament has various constellation systems, one for each religion? Or same constellation with different meaning by each culture?
And a last cuestion. Maybe a ritual would needs as a main condition the alineation of stars to invoque a great devil and our adventure party must stop them, to priests and worshipers, before the fatidic night. Is this scenario part of your plans?
1. How exactly does the FLEEING usage hint work? From what I can tell, it affects the full spectrum of "fear" reactions, so civilized creatures that see you walk nearby while, say, brandishing a weapon (They usually say something like "A weapon? That's alarming!" to signify this) or something similarly not overtly threatening, will use any FLEEING interactions they have, even if said interaction is, say, transforming into a giant demon or something crazy like that. Obviously the vanilla game didn't have plans for this considering the octopus's ink is the only interaction with the FLEEING tag as far as I know, but is this hint meant to be so trigger-happy?
2. What are the plans for the bandit forts and improved necromancer towers, if they are implemented? Will they function essentially as tiny civilizations, demanding tribute and starting wars and such?
3. Will we be getting any other adventure mode crafting functionalities prior to the Big Wait? Like tanning leather/making clothing/milking and butchering animals, stuff like that.
4. Will you be taking another look at semi/megabeasts during the villain arc? Currently if you add the [INTELLIGENT] and [POWER] tokens along with spheres, a megabeast can theoretically assume the role of a god-king in a given civilization. However it is kind of finicky and doesn't always work (as of now they tend to die off almost immediately after assuming rulership) for example. Will this be changed as villain roles become more fleshed out? It might be interesting to face off against an evil empire ruled by a Giant king.
Now that dwarfs dwell on memories, will they at some point get the ability to act on the memories and lessen/reinforce the effect of the worse/better ones?
E.g. a dwarf remembering a dead relative might visit the relative's tomb or memorial and reduce their stress, or a dwarf annoyed at having been without mugs for too long might take matters into their own hands and make a few himself. Perhaps in a similar way a dwarf might search out a few of their masterwork crafts to look at again or engrave their own fond memory on a wall without being told to.
I think I heard somewhere magic will be a skill like combat or labor skills; will there be zombie/skeleton/thrall mages?
Now that we get hillocks to spring up around us (and emmiting tribute) will it be possible to (re)distribute stuff so they grow faster or build certain things?
If I retire my adventurer in a hillocks linked to a player fortress (assuming I become a citizen first, of course) will the adventurer be available for...whatever it is hill dwarves are available to do when I unretire that fortress?
Have you thought about making a FOTF FAQ?
1. One thing listed under the benefits of being a wizard's apprentice is magical augmentation. What sort of magical augmentations will be possible besides learning magic? Could the player merge with a magical beast or get magic runes carved on their body?
2. Will obtaining magical mounts be a possibly option for the special companions a player could obtain as a wizard's apprentice?
3. What kinds of new specific opportunities might we be able to ask for as listed in the pre myth and magic update candidate feature list?
4. Will gaining civ-level entry positions unlock more options for things we can do in adventure mode if it is implemented before the myth and magic update and what kinds options do you think we could get if so?
With the new myths system will we see religious wars between civs, heresy and inquisition? Religious conflicts inside our fortresses. Official fortress religion and possible attack from our capital government in case if our point of view is different to theirs.
Quote from: DwarfuWill being able to ask residents to leave the fortress include vampires and were-creatures in human form?
Also, is this some kind of legal mandate (such as banishment) or is it just a "get out" kind of thing?Quote from: FantasticDorfDo exile ethical reprecussions now utilise the expulsion mechanic in fortress mode to make people leave? i've not had opportunity to try but i am curious to enquire whether its a fine minor detail you implemented and forgot to point out/left behind for players to find. Maybe i was reading too much into it perhaps.
Do you plan on fixing dwarves ability to form relationships this cycle, or do you think you'll end up replacing it with something more complex further down the line? I've noticed it still kinda seems like even with fort citizens socializing a lot, you very rarely get marriages, grudges and the like.
In the Development tab there's a line "better necromancer towers'
I was curious what do you have planned for them?
thx
Quote from: Killermartian<from dev: Combat styles : Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled>
Do you have any plans as to how you will accomplish this?Quote from: iceball3In particular, do you suppose the combat styles noted are a series of actions like how the current version largely supports Kisat Dur as a combat style, or will these be more particular actions?
Do you anticipate further development in this direction to come before or after the next pass of fatigue/pain/organ injury reworks? Just asking as making certain injuries more or less significant can have an affect on what constitute a good combat maneuver (as punching people's livers right now does not do anything presently, for example).
Question about messengers: When they are out on theyr mission and encounter hostiles (Armies, undead, titans, nighcreatures) will they report those? I imagine theyr coding will them make them walk by but on the returntrip (given that they are alive) will they tell you the news?
I have no problem imagining magic based on stress. Or suffering and pain.
Is this something you think about as a possible base for magic ?
Can we send parents and children off to the hillocks so we dont have to put up with them?
If we keep one parent behind, can we then arrange visits to their family by sending them off temporarily so they dont get all freaked out about not seeing them for too long?
Can we also send away peoples pets and unwanted livestock?
If i embark on a site with intelligent residents like animal people in the caverns or a cave or camp occupied by something other than kobolds, can i forcibly relocate them too?
On that front, do we have any say in who is allowed to settle in our hillocks sites? Would there be repercussions, like do other civs recognize evicting their diplomats or nobles as a potential insult to them? Does this count if we evict the populations of sites we conquered/forced to submit to our rule? Separately from the act of attacking and subjugating the site, obviously.
We can ask that poetry troupe we granted residency to to get lost right?
1. You've mentioned sphere-associated regions replacing good and evil regions. Can we expect ALL of the existing spheres to be represented in there (not in the same world necessarily, but all in the pool that the game chooses sphere regions from)? Some seem obvious like death-associated regions having the current evil region effects of reanimation or other nasty weather, some spheres could lead to cool things like dream-associated oceans, but some spheres don't seem to make as much sense for this system. A forest associated with "oaths" or a desert associated with "rumors" are hard to come up with magical or otherwise interesting effects for. Can we expect less interesting spheres to be omitted? Or do you guys think you're creative enough to be able to come up with interesting enough effects for all of them?
2. On a similar note, are some magical artifacts going to be similarly sphere associated? Will it be possible to have a revelry-associated magical scepter, or an agriculture-associated armor stand, for example? There's a whole bunch of spheres so it seems crazy-ambitious to try and come up with world region and artifact effects for all of them.
3. You've talked about changing the underworld into something completely different on a per-world basis, based on procedural myth stuff. Are there plans to try to preserve the "digging too deep" ending of the game between worlds in spite of this? I always kind of liked playing devil's minesweeper.
4. Since there are going to be new origin myths for different species, where does that leave the relationship between goblins and demons? Are the narratives just going to be twisted to fit the current status quo (ex: goblins were created when the gods cursed the dwarves, then a demon grew from the primordial fungus pits and enslaved the goblins) or is it going to be more dynamic, where goblins might not have had a demon master at all depending on how they came to be? If demons aren't necessarily a package deal with goblin civs anymore, might intelligent demons be able to manifest in the normal world during mythgen of certain worlds through some other means?
5. Since regions and magical systems are now going to change dynamically over time, is the myths update going to include a way to have a world re-enter world-gen after you finish a fort, in order to generate more history before playing again? Seems like a lot of effort to make things dynamic is going to waste if the average playtime on a single world doesn't last long enough to see those effects progress much. It would also be cool to see how wars and civilizations change over the long term based on the actions you made in your fort.
6. You've talked about players having to make decisions about whether they want to use an artifact, given the harmful side effects they have, like a staff of fire that pulls your fortress closer to the fire plane and causes everything to light on fire. How do you plan to communicate information about their uses and risks to the player? In some cases where the downsides aren't too horrible and it's not too hard to figure out what's going on, just making the player experiment and try using it could be fun, but the stronger the negative effects are and bigger the consequences, the less likely players will risk it at all. It's not worth playing with the Flaming Obsidian Mug of Lebesnóton if there's a chance it might fill your fortress with magma because you don't know what it does in advance.
7. How might players actually use magic in fortress mode? You've shown screenshots of the myth gen describing how dwarves could sing or speak a word or whatever to make some kind of magic happen, but right now we can't force a dwarf to sing or speak a word on command in fort mode. Will we be able to control when and where a particular dwarf uses a particular kind of magic? If some magic artifacts are clothing, will we get functionality to force a non-milita dwarf to wear a particular piece of clothing as well?
8. You've talked about religious sects forming in your fort and demanding certain things, like nobles. Is this system going to be integrated with temples or magic? I'm imaging a system where building a grand, high value cathedral for a cult will increase the success of their worshiping and rituals, improving your relations with a deity, which in turn could grant you strange moods to produce magical artifacts, blessings of good harvest/success in battle or other such benefits.
9. Similar note, right now dwarves can worship megabeasts like gods, presumably to appease them so they chill out and stop destroying everybody’s cities. This doesn’t actually do anything at the moment though. Might this relationship be expanded upon? Do you think we might actually be able to keep forgotten beasts at bay by worshiping them? Or maybe even convince them to attack your fort’s enemies? Or do you guys like the one-sided worship as it stands? It is kind of fun to think of dwarves desperately trying to appease the eight-legged bismuth porcupine that doesn’t care about what the dwarves are doing at all, and just wants to kill everything.
10. You’ve mentioned how worlds without magic will still have origin stories, they would just be fictional. Does this mean that worlds which DO have magic might also have fictional elements to their myths? Such as false gods, magical rites which do nothing, artifacts which are said to have certain magic effects but actually do nothing, etc. Would the players have an easy way to distinguish between fake magic and real magic, or would experimentation be necessary?
1. When the new Magic System comes out, will it be customiseable for modders to add other magic related things with raws?
3. If we have a Werebeast in our fort and send them out to a hillock, will they eventually worm their way back to fight or cause problems in the hillocks?
1. One possible magic effect that has been mentioned is mind control. When it comes to player adventurers being mind controlled how will the loss of player control be handled? Will the player get to watch as the magic user controls their body?
2. Will there be cases of non-complete mind influencing magic where the magic user suggests for a person to do something? If so, if a player adventurer is subjected to it how will the partial loss of control be handled? What mechanics will be in place to ensure they obey the non-dominating mind magic?
3. Once the myth and magic update starts being released will there be more types of weaknesses for night creatures, cursed individuals and corrupted magic users? Currently were beasts are weak to certain metal weapons. Will stuff like holy symbols, natural terrain features and certain times of day be possible types of weaknesses?
4. Will types of curses be generated at myth gen or when the curse is given? Will generated curses have their weaknesses set on generation or will the weaknesses vary from curse to curse within the same type of curse?
As worlds become increasingly procedural, how do you see greater geological formations being impacted? Will any number of worldly influences cause the existence of more esoteric layer stones, for example, or will the procedural occurrences of the world make our planets particularly "Earthen" in all it's lands? Assuming players do not mod in bedrock formations that would otherwise make the world different, of course.
In the event that stone layers and similar mineral formations occur that are not what you would see in real life, how do you see handling it? Will stone layers be created by probable cause (such the present known terrestrial and extraterrestrial formations, as well as preset fictional minerals reasonably expected to be caused by things that influence stone layers in a consistent way during mythgen or otherwise), or will there be a subcategory of rare procedural minerals that are generated in tandem with whatever could influence it?
An example of the first case of the second question: Slade. In particular, it forms as a mineral layer as a result (or related to) the existence of air pockets beneath the crust.
That makes me think of another question.
Do you think slade would be a subject of interest for our magic-researches to be in the post mythgen eras? Or is slade in particular intended to be completely unapproachable, resistant to any mortal effort to glean useful information from it?
Also, at the end of the day, does your vision of slade have it as being truly indestructible? Specifically, in dis-regard to reachable game states, would there be a force in the universe that can damage or otherwise handle slade? This is more of a lore question, as the question of whether dwarves can do it might lead to my favorite slade-carving maybe-glitches being fixed, hehe
Were the issues with local administrations abandoning the sites we conquer potentially caused by a skills issue, like the local administrators just not having enough discipline skill to stick it out with the threat of insurrections brewing? If so, will we see that facet kept, where cowardly administrations might actually abandon their holdings and come crying back to us with excuses for leaving?
will you be fixing insurrections this release cycle, or do you plan to return to them some time after myth and magic?
Do you use a profiler to find performance problems?
What is the difference between "vassal" sites and "economically linked" sites from a gameplay point of view? Economically linked ones are the ones that peacefully align themselves to you, right? Will they have the same functions and uses as normal vassal sites or do you plan on making them more different, giving them other uses or limiting them in their uses compared to vassals?
Did you already decide what you'll work on in this coming month? Will there be more improving/fixing/tweaking of the site administration stuff for now or will you jump straight to one of the next things (villains/adventure mode parties/mounts/etc)?
Did you and your brother come closer to a conclusion about how you'll handle mounts in the game? There were some interesting game design questions in the past about the implementation of mounts and because you said they are potentially one of the next things being worked on I was wondering if you have a better idea of what you want to do with them by now. For example: How to balance player control vs the animal having its own mind and also whether mounts will come to fort mode before the big wait or adventure mode only for now? If nothing changed in regards to the design of mounts, just answer "nope".
Toady, I believe it was mentioned somewhere on the changelog that you implemented a fix to address county titles not upgrading themselves according to nobles, are you still satisfied with the active jobs quota for county title "level up" and state of the county system in general now that other civilization factors are coming into play or is this currently pending your attention later on in development? Your thoughts on the matter would be interesting
What happens if during a raid, someone holding an artifact dies, either one of your soldiers or someone of the raided place?
Also, when you explore a cave or lair, they don't seem to find dragons and other megabeasts. Why?
Right now, all subterranean water sources are huge pools of stagnant water. With the underground rewrite that's been hinted to occur around the mythgen update, will we see a return of flowing underground cave rivers?
What is the range for "nearby" sites joining you?
How mod-able do you intend the first pass of the myth gen and magic to be?
I ask because in the suggestion forums it was suggested that the first pass was going to be less/un mod-able.
I know that what is intended might not make the finale cut but as someone with a desire to mod in a specific magic system (Dominions 4) I'm really curious as to what the "goal" is in term of mod-ability.
...
I only hope there is enough player control to not be force to accept a magic system we don't like.
Do you think dynamic combination of magic will be possible with magic, an example being mixing water and fire magic on the fly to create steam or fire and earth to create magma or would such combinations need to be predefined?
Famous historical warriors stop using their weapons the moment they name (and decorate) them. Is this intended (It's now hanging on a wall never to be used), something unfinished for later expansion, or a bug? It's kind of odd having all these legendary single kill weapons around. Also worldwide artifact production from all races (except dwarves in player fortresses) stops after initial worldgen. I reported it as a bug, but is it?
do you plan to add non-lethal madness ? Something like, talking about strange things, OCD, hallucinations.
Why is it that bridges are indestructible?
...because they know what players can do with bridges when displeased.
Are these numbers set up so processed (not raw) adamantine can bend slade but they both fracture at the same time, when tremendous force is applied?
:I believe this is still an issue, unless you've done something I've missed since 0.44.05.Quote from: ZM5Do you plan on fixing dwarves ability to form relationships this cycle, or do you think you'll end up replacing it with something more complex further down the line? I've noticed it still kinda seems like even with fort citizens socializing a lot, you very rarely get marriages, grudges and the like.
I recall asking this last time (maybe? it gets confusing between fotf and email and everything else), and if somebody answered I missed it; is this still an issue? I've had lovers and marriages among the starting 7 in my test forts in the last some versions, and there is more socializing now. Is there a bug report with saves associated to a newer release? I suppose I could check, but I'm working on FotF answers right now, heh.
I imagine relationships will get more complicated, as things tend to, but I don't have particular plans for them in the near-term.
:
...because they know what players can do with bridges when displeased.I'm just going to sig this
Quote from: Mort Stroodle7. How might players actually use magic in fortress mode? You've shown screenshots of the myth gen describing how dwarves could sing or speak a word or whatever to make some kind of magic happen, but right now we can't force a dwarf to sing or speak a word on command in fort mode. Will we be able to control when and where a particular dwarf uses a particular kind of magic? If some magic artifacts are clothing, will we get functionality to force a non-milita dwarf to wear a particular piece of clothing as well?
7. I expect this will be as PatrikLundell suggests; buildings work as usual, low-level atoms like 'sing'/'gesture' etc. would just be part of the ritual which is performed automatically (adv. mode is another matter -- I expect a lot of that will also be automatically, but only when it becomes more annoying and less fun, a line I'm not sure will be obvious every time.) There are some issues that have been raised in the past, particularly as it relates to clothing and also ammo/reagents; unsurprisingly, these are the things that DF already handles poorly (uniforms and bolts, respectively.) We'll just have to generally improve this stuff as/before it becomes cumbersome.
Thanks for the answers Toady!
Right now you are moving to villain stuff, but I don't know if you are still going to look over the site interactions and since one thing relates to one another, well...
1. As your fort get more integrated in the world, how do hillocks interact with the surrounding biome right now (and in the future)? Will settling in an evil biome cause the hillocks that grow around your fort to have an undead/syndrome problem? Could they be overrun by the undead and end up with an invasion of your fort? Will you be able to send troops there to guard/fend off undead, beasts and such? Do sending troops there right now do anything?
Thanks Toady
2. Tying to the previous question, will we be able to "refuse" hillocks settlements? And if that's the case, I imagine the system would work as charts, with migrants (or citizens of your fort) asking for a chart to settle a land nearby. ((You could deny them because it's too dangerous, for example)). How would the current count/barony system tie with the fact that hillock might not pop up because you denied them/place is too remote?
3. Conversely, how do/will hillocks interact with invaders? Could a necromancer rampage through the hillocks to try and raise a larger army to invade you? Would you be able to send patrols to try and intercept the necromancer before it snowballs in a huge army of the undead?
4. You are now moving to the "villain role", though I'm not sure this is "individual" (as in adventurer is a bad guy) or generic (goblins, "large scale bad guys"). Tied into that is slavery in the dev page, though only mentioned 3 times. Slaves right now are a rare occasion and only happen during site destruction in world gen. Since we have more assets now (hillocks) than just the fort itself, will that shift the paradigm of invaders to relate to all that? Let me give a few examples. Right now all invaders want your complete destruction, but it would make more sense for them to want your partial destruction just for their own gain.
5. Will the role of "raider" get in this release? (In the sense of temporary forces, either outlaws or enemies, that come to take people or valuables, causing death and destruction but not enough to end the game)
6. Finally, are there respective plans for the stuff I asked in any arc, if it's not coming in the current cycle of hillock/villains?
:Not with dwarves, as dwarves (excluding players) don't settle in evil biomes. They can tone down savage biomes to become possible to settle in over the centuries, but there is currently no process in place for pushing away evilness (that will likely change with spheres, although not necessarily in the first arc).
1. As your fort get more integrated in the world, how do hillocks interact with the surrounding biome right now (and in the future)? Will settling in an evil biome cause the hillocks that grow around your fort to have an undead/syndrome problem? Could they be overrun by the undead and end up with an invasion of your fort? Will you be able to send troops there to guard/fend off undead, beasts and such? Do sending troops there right now do anything?
:
I have a question about FotF itself. If there was an answer on the question from one of the guys from forum and Toady just adds some thoughts about it but not answering from the beginning can the original answer be posted in FotF along with Toady's answer or at least postlinked?
The whole concept of 'demon' will float as the sliders move; we've made some semantic charts for 'demon', 'fairy', 'angel', 'titan', 'god', 'force', 'spirit', etc., and we're trying not to be beholden to English entirely when assigning categories to supernatural creatures, as that can be really limiting.
:Not with dwarves, as dwarves (excluding players) don't settle in evil biomes.
1. As your fort get more integrated in the world, how do hillocks interact with the surrounding biome right now (and in the future)? Will settling in an evil biome cause the hillocks that grow around your fort to have an undead/syndrome problem? Could they be overrun by the undead and end up with an invasion of your fort? Will you be able to send troops there to guard/fend off undead, beasts and such? Do sending troops there right now do anything?
:
It's not worth playing with the Flaming Obsidian Mug of Lebesnóton if there's a chance it might fill your fortress with magma because you don't know what it does in advance.
A question that i thought of today: are there any plans to expand gender within the game?
currently, all characters seem to be cisgender and dyadic, with some inherently genderless beings like sponge men mixed in, so expanding on this would add in more representation and variety to the game. i could also see it slotting in with the laws and customs expansion mentioned in the Fortress Starting Scenarios framework, since some of the customs and laws (not necessarily ones added in the initial update, but maybe sometime later) could revolve around the roles and definitions of genders within a society, stuff like what it means in this society to "be a man/woman/whatever other genders this society has"
Planned for traps during this update phase is possible invader intelligence (they'll avoid areas where there were traps). That's only if development gets that far before the cut-off date.QuoteIt's not worth playing with the Flaming Obsidian Mug of Lebesnóton if there's a chance it might fill your fortress with magma because you don't know what it does in advance.
I don't know, that sort of thing sounds exciting to me-- I would love to play SCP Fortress and lock a random dwarf in an isolated chamber with an unknown artifact to see what happens. I think I even flavored my first fortress as a "dwarven research facility", and magical research is quite interesting.
Anyways, I read that bit about the FAQ, but it's somewhat hard to go and find answers from previous FotF unless you've been reading them all, and the forum search seems very useless sometimes. Apologies if this has been asked:
With improvements to sieges include some sort of look at balancing the cage trap. Right now it's a very icky thing that pops up when I play, whether or not to use them or not. While of course players can just use restraint, it's nicer to have mechanical reasons. The dev page mentioned somewhere about multi-tile traps, but is there perhaps a few short-term tweaks that could make cage traps a bit less powerful? Right now if you build enough of them to match the invader cap, you really don't have to do much but open the gates and capture everyone.
Granted, I noticed in an older fort after 34.11 that invaders seem more cautious towards traps, and I can't tell if this is noted anywhere, but I noticed that attacking goblins very slowly creeped down my main trap hallway, as if suspiciously, and immediately ran out and refused to enter my fort once one got trapped. I don't know if this is a feature or bug or some other behavior, but it's in the same realm of trap balance improvements.
fairies are generally cute flying thingsThe original Celtic Fair Folk were monstrous creatures.
It can also be mentioned that there is a slight balancing of traps: spies blend in with visitors and report traps back to their civ, so invaders can just bypass those traps. I've personally seen that in my fortress, but I have yet to actually find a spy (I want to investigate what they look like with DFHack to possibly find out how to identify them properly). I've removed and rebuilt cage traps, and that has worked to some extent. As far as I can tell, every visitor is actually a spy for their own civ, so relying on traps when you raid a settlement of a civ many of your visitors come from can have an interesting side effect...Planned for traps during this update phase is possible invader intelligence (they'll avoid areas where there were traps). That's only if development gets that far before the cut-off date.QuoteIt's not worth playing with the Flaming Obsidian Mug of Lebesnóton if there's a chance it might fill your fortress with magma because you don't know what it does in advance.
I don't know, that sort of thing sounds exciting to me-- I would love to play SCP Fortress and lock a random dwarf in an isolated chamber with an unknown artifact to see what happens. I think I even flavored my first fortress as a "dwarven research facility", and magical research is quite interesting.
Anyways, I read that bit about the FAQ, but it's somewhat hard to go and find answers from previous FotF unless you've been reading them all, and the forum search seems very useless sometimes. Apologies if this has been asked:
With improvements to sieges include some sort of look at balancing the cage trap. Right now it's a very icky thing that pops up when I play, whether or not to use them or not. While of course players can just use restraint, it's nicer to have mechanical reasons. The dev page mentioned somewhere about multi-tile traps, but is there perhaps a few short-term tweaks that could make cage traps a bit less powerful? Right now if you build enough of them to match the invader cap, you really don't have to do much but open the gates and capture everyone.
Granted, I noticed in an older fort after 34.11 that invaders seem more cautious towards traps, and I can't tell if this is noted anywhere, but I noticed that attacking goblins very slowly creeped down my main trap hallway, as if suspiciously, and immediately ran out and refused to enter my fort once one got trapped. I don't know if this is a feature or bug or some other behavior, but it's in the same realm of trap balance improvements.
Planned for the future, won't be included in this release (confirmed in previous fotf), is the complete trap update, which you can find on the dev notes. That'll be about the same time as ships and moving fortress parts. So cages respecting size, complex traps made of many moving parts, rocks positioned to fall from other areas, etc. The "wooden cage traps dragon" slight unbalance that we have now is just a placeholder.
With the map rewrite, can we expect floating islands and castles in the sky? If so, will they move over the map? That would suggest the possibility of a segue into mobile forts and ships.Floating islands, probably, yes. (It's a favorite feature of fantasy worlds, apparently - past fotf reply).
If you access floating islands via portals (requires two way portals to work properly -> not the first release) it's probably fairly straight forward. If the island is accessed by flying it may be trickier (although it IS mostly just a very big flying craft with potentially rock [and more exotic stuff] that can be mined). However, a craft that covers several mid level tiles will probably require some special logic. Pathing might be interesting if a floating island docks with a mountain or a shore, for instance, although it might not be fundamentally different from opening a drawbridge/mining a hole, and movement would require dynamic loading/unloading of tiles as per adventure mode.With the map rewrite, can we expect floating islands and castles in the sky? If so, will they move over the map? That would suggest the possibility of a segue into mobile forts and ships.Floating islands, probably, yes. (It's a favorite feature of fantasy worlds, apparently - past fotf reply).
Ships are planned for the ships update (when moving fortress parts are introduced - basically all moving bits of map, which would probably include floating islands actually moving about).
Yeah, I know. I just put down the "cute winged thing" descriptor since that's what we have in the game right now, even if things like dullahan were fairies. It'd be really cool if Toady does something to represent the good-neutral-bad sorts of monsters within a class of creature. He could even make a dichotomy template that is applied to a class of creatures on world gen that fit the bill under the mythology generated for that world.fairies are generally cute flying thingsThe original Celtic Fair Folk were monstrous creatures.
Planned for traps during this update phase is possible invader intelligence (they'll avoid areas where there were traps). That's only if development gets that far before the cut-off date.QuoteIt's not worth playing with the Flaming Obsidian Mug of Lebesnóton if there's a chance it might fill your fortress with magma because you don't know what it does in advance.
I don't know, that sort of thing sounds exciting to me-- I would love to play SCP Fortress and lock a random dwarf in an isolated chamber with an unknown artifact to see what happens. I think I even flavored my first fortress as a "dwarven research facility", and magical research is quite interesting.
Anyways, I read that bit about the FAQ, but it's somewhat hard to go and find answers from previous FotF unless you've been reading them all, and the forum search seems very useless sometimes. Apologies if this has been asked:
With improvements to sieges include some sort of look at balancing the cage trap. Right now it's a very icky thing that pops up when I play, whether or not to use them or not. While of course players can just use restraint, it's nicer to have mechanical reasons. The dev page mentioned somewhere about multi-tile traps, but is there perhaps a few short-term tweaks that could make cage traps a bit less powerful? Right now if you build enough of them to match the invader cap, you really don't have to do much but open the gates and capture everyone.
Granted, I noticed in an older fort after 34.11 that invaders seem more cautious towards traps, and I can't tell if this is noted anywhere, but I noticed that attacking goblins very slowly creeped down my main trap hallway, as if suspiciously, and immediately ran out and refused to enter my fort once one got trapped. I don't know if this is a feature or bug or some other behavior, but it's in the same realm of trap balance improvements.
Planned for the future, won't be included in this release (confirmed in previous fotf), is the complete trap update, which you can find on the dev notes. That'll be about the same time as ships and moving fortress parts. So cages respecting size, complex traps made of many moving parts, rocks positioned to fall from other areas, etc. The "wooden cage traps dragon" slight unbalance that we have now is just a placeholder.
1. What can we expect for medical options with the upcoming Adventure mode medical improvements? Will there be doctors like in fortress mode, and/or will it be up to the player character to diagnose and heal their injuries?For 1 and 3: There have been replies to questions about adventure mode medical rework and "re-entering world gen" time progression stuff in the last couple Toady posts. I think what you can expect as answers is that the specifics for the medical rework aren't set in stone yet except that it will bring it closer to fort mode levels (he does have a ton of notes for it though apparently) and that Toady acknowleges that a way to fast forward time in the world is something that would be useful, but is a difficult problem to handle. In his last post he mentioned making world gen stop at specifically interesting times so that the player wouldn't have a need to fast forward time.
2. Will the Semi/Megabeasts become more unique with the myth/magic update? Will they be procedurally generated similarly to forgotten beasts, just with more limitations so that they can still be recognized as hydras, dragons, cyclops, etc?
3. Is there any future plans for a manual way to progress time in a world, without going into/out of a fortress/adventure mode save?
I dont quite get why the game can move forward two weeks every time you play, but not any other way? Doesnt make much sense to me. Is there really no way to make the same thing possible without going into the game modes?Watch the videos, read Toady's words. He's the only coder, he should know what's incredibly difficult and what isn't. Pretty sure he's not making stuff up just to mess with your mind.
The two week embark time isn't the same thing as putting the game back in the box: it does everything that happens in the world in fortress (and, I presume, adventure) mode in the background, but not the fortress' own stuff. It may look fast to you, but try it on a crowded world, and that's only two weeks as well, not two years.I dont quite get why the game can move forward two weeks every time you play, but not any other way? Doesnt make much sense to me. Is there really no way to make the same thing possible without going into the game modes?Watch the videos, read Toady's words. He's the only coder, he should know what's incredibly difficult and what isn't. Pretty sure he's not making stuff up just to mess with your mind.
edit
He first (as far as I recall) mentions the difficulties here:
https://youtu.be/L67Xb4tgVv8
(At around the 1 hour point).
Then he mentioned a bit more in the fotf reply that followed this video (I recall because I asked a question right after watching it).
How do you protect the DF code from getting lost?That question has been answered in the past. There are backups off site, and there's also a will (with a clause to ward off foul play).
It is no exaggeration if I say that in my opinion Dwarf Fortress is one of the most amazing achievements of humanity in the last decade.
It would be a catastrophe if the world lost the ability to work on it, because of a fire or your demise.
I'm still not exactly sure why there cant be an option to move the world forward manually, even if it was only two weeks. To clarify, I am not asking to reenter world gen, just to move the world forward in time, the same way it does every time you play on a world.There is no technical reason blocking it, but it's not something that is of any priority for Toady to implement. You can easily move the world forwards by two weeks at at time by embarking and retiring/abandoning (the same site repeatedly if you don't want to clutter the world with embarks).
How do you protect the DF code from getting lost?That question has been answered in the past. There are backups off site, and there's also a will (with a clause to ward off foul play).
It is no exaggeration if I say that in my opinion Dwarf Fortress is one of the most amazing achievements of humanity in the last decade.
It would be a catastrophe if the world lost the ability to work on it, because of a fire or your demise.
Is there a plan to implement pain tolerance building up over time so we can train armies that feel no pain (or don't care)?Limegreen text if that's a question. Or, more usefully, move to suggestions board if its a suggestion.
Is there a plan to implement pain tolerance building up over time so we can train armies that feel no pain (or don't care)?I guess the current willpower attribute is pretty much that, it seems to govern how much pain is needed for you to pass out right now.
If you kill a bandit, you are a killer, not a murderer. A killer is a neutral reputation, murderer is the bad one.
1. Can we expect some improvements regarding hostilities in adventure mode to be part of the villain arc? Banditry, in particular. I've read various comments on this forum about how in a time before time, bandits were actually aggressive and attacked you when walking straight into their encampment. Currently, they tend to ignore you, unless they are on a specific mission to rob someone, in which case they might try to rob the player, but only after nonchalantly chatting about the weather and inquiring about why one is travelling. Any chance things will get a bit more dynamic in this regard before the long wait?Well this almost sounds like a feature not a bug. It's probably true that they shouldn't let anyone just randomly walk through their encampment and yeah the villain update might change this, but it's important that we keep having the option of talking to them, so we can interact in another way with them or join them, and they don't just turn into mindless "enemies" like in every other computer RPG.
Well this almost sounds like a feature not a bug. It's probably true that they shouldn't let anyone just randomly walk through their encampment and yeah the villain update might change this, but it's important that we keep having the option of talking to them, so we can interact in another way with them or join them, and they don't just turn into mindless "enemies" like in every other computer RPG.
I recall asking this last time (maybe? it gets confusing between fotf and email and everything else), and if somebody answered I missed it; is this still an issue? I've had lovers and marriages among the starting 7 in my test forts in the last some versions, and there is more socializing now. Is there a bug report with saves associated to a newer release? I suppose I could check, but I'm working on FotF answers right now, heh.Ive noticed that my dwarves dont form any sort of relationships often too. I think it has to do with the difference between "no job" idling versus "socializing." When the dwarves have "no job" they will form relationships with other idle dwarves they bump into. As in you dont have a tavern or library to entertain them. praying/meditating at a temple doesnt seem to take up too much of their time alone, but they spend days and days reading books or "socializing". During "socializing" or dancing/singing/reciting poetry or observing performances, they dont seem to actually be forming any sort of relationships, except in those brief moments where they have "no job". Its like they consider that tavern socializing function to be a job so refrain from the socializing part of socializing. But in a fort where theres little work and you have smallish meeting areas and no tavern or library/books, then when dwarves arent working they will idle with the "no job" task listed, and make friends with everybody.
I imagine relationships will get more complicated, as things tend to, but I don't have particular plans for them in the near-term.
Is the Golden Salve intended to be given some use during the magic stuff?Probably depending on the world's settings.
Although probably no more so than any other substance. "This ritual requires drinking an entire barrel of gremlin sweat..."Is the Golden Salve intended to be given some use during the magic stuff?Probably depending on the world's settings.
I'd LIKE to imagine that due to it's rarity it would be at least SOMEWHAT better than more common ritual ingredientsI imagine gremlin sweat would be rarer than golden salve in worlds which feature it's use in mass destruction rituals and vice versa. Or perhaps not, but those worlds probably wouldn't make it past worldgen...
I never said gremlin sweat would be more or less rare, I was responding to the claim of "probably no more so than any other substance"Yes, and I said, it might depend on how rare golden salve is in any particular world (if the system were calculating backwards, "not much of a substance will exist = major player in mythgen rituals". Which doesn't seem as likely as "Major player in mythgen rituals = enforced rarity in worldgen". That's assuming rarity is considered at all).
So, given it seems you can encounter non-questors taking the identity of criminal, and it seems they might not always actually have a criminal record, what even is the justification for them being labelled criminals?What do you mean by "non-questors"? Are you referring to the Fortess mode bug where ex-spies appear as migrants with their spy professions (peddler, beast hunter, criminal, etc) still in place?
I'm immediately thinking up the mental image of them calling themselves that a being basically some sort of fantasy-realm punk subculture thing.
I'm immediately thinking up the mental image of them calling themselves that a being basically some sort of fantasy-realm punk subculture thing.
If someone else knows the answer to this, that would be good, but:Raiding apparently negates any distance restrictions (and siege triggers). Mentioned by Toady in an fotf quite a while ago. Seems work from the little experimentation I've done.
Civilizations have an effective distance before they're not considered contacts for you in dwarf fortress mode. Does sending raiding parties extend their sights a bit when considering retaliation, or are you effectively immune to their influence at such distances?
You can now create as many characters as you want when you start adventure mode, and they'll start together as a party.
we are planning on adding full turn-based control mode for combat purposes, which you can turn on and off
If you made an animal whose younger forms were shoulder pet sized but as an adult is bigger than you, which of those sizes is it going to think about in terms of its mechanics? Can you tag a pet for both vermin and mounts?
Will you add fireworks, cannons, hand cannons, rocket arrows or other gun powder based inventions at any point?
No. That wasn't the impression he gave last time it was discussed (when ships were being talked about as I recall). Which was still kind of doubtful but, less so now that "vanilla" is a much looser context. Interested in seeing what the answer is now.Will you add fireworks, cannons, hand cannons, rocket arrows or other gun powder based inventions at any point?
If I recall, isn't the answer "I'm pretending that China didn't invent gunpowder well before the 1400s" basically? XP
In the upcoming adventure mode update can you throw vermin pets as weapons like you can with the normal vermin you find with 'L'ook?You can throw ANY item, so if they are items, yes. You can also use any item as a melee weapon. So you can murder someone with a hamster.
Will you add fireworks, cannons, hand cannons, rocket arrows or other gun powder based inventions at any point?
If I recall, isn't the answer "I'm pretending that China didn't invent gunpowder well before the 1400s" basically? XP
No. Technological progress will be forever locked in the 1400s or lower in some cases. I had read somewhere that after DF v1.0 there will be increased modding support basically to the level of modifying the source, though. Magitek is probably possible, though.Hmm. If technological advancements were locked in place there wouldn't be a need for scholars and the as yet mostly unused technical knowledge system. 1400 (ish, it is fantasy after all) seems to be the limit to the technological advancements, not the start line.
Hence why I said "lower in some cases". I knew that it's the end limit.No. Technological progress will be forever locked in the 1400s or lower in some cases. I had read somewhere that after DF v1.0 there will be increased modding support basically to the level of modifying the source, though. Magitek is probably possible, though.Hmm. If technological advancements were locked in place there wouldn't be a need for scholars and the as yet mostly unused technical knowledge system. 1400 (ish, it is fantasy after all) seems to be the limit to the technological advancements, not the start line.
Once blowing stuff up magically becomes a regular fun way to pass the time, I imagine the stance on blowing stuff up mechanically/chemically will become a bit more relaxed. Especially in mundane worlds.
"Forever locked" implies that lower tech civs won't be able to advance over time which, I think, isn't the case. The whole masterplan when it comes to tech is a bit vague at the moment though.Hence why I said "lower in some cases". I knew that it's the end limit.No. Technological progress will be forever locked in the 1400s or lower in some cases. I had read somewhere that after DF v1.0 there will be increased modding support basically to the level of modifying the source, though. Magitek is probably possible, though.Hmm. If technological advancements were locked in place there wouldn't be a need for scholars and the as yet mostly unused technical knowledge system. 1400 (ish, it is fantasy after all) seems to be the limit to the technological advancements, not the start line.
Once blowing stuff up magically becomes a regular fun way to pass the time, I imagine the stance on blowing stuff up mechanically/chemically will become a bit more relaxed. Especially in mundane worlds.
"Forever locked" implies that lower tech civs won't be able to advance over time which, I think, isn't the case. The whole masterplan when it comes to tech is a bit vague at the moment though.Hence why I said "lower in some cases". I knew that it's the end limit.No. Technological progress will be forever locked in the 1400s or lower in some cases. I had read somewhere that after DF v1.0 there will be increased modding support basically to the level of modifying the source, though. Magitek is probably possible, though.Hmm. If technological advancements were locked in place there wouldn't be a need for scholars and the as yet mostly unused technical knowledge system. 1400 (ish, it is fantasy after all) seems to be the limit to the technological advancements, not the start line.
Once blowing stuff up magically becomes a regular fun way to pass the time, I imagine the stance on blowing stuff up mechanically/chemically will become a bit more relaxed. Especially in mundane worlds.
Memo to Urist McManager, Malachite 278
Urist McScholar has invented a mechanical wax opal menacing spike applicator (for bolts)! Patent pending.
Toady, will this upcoming version have much more inclusion of pets for other NPC's to be using? ((like soldiers & groups dispatched from sites riding upon horses, or people's personal pets becoming involved in fights with their masters))Raiders take their pets with them right now and they get involved in the fighting. And you can be invaded by mounted troops. So, your question is about adding the ability to send mounted raiders?
Hi!Isn't purple used by traders? (And scholars, etc., but those are sort of like nobles.)
In fort mode, I've noticed that the legendary blue of a peasant and legendary purple of a noble aren't used as non-legendary "base" colors for any other civilian profession (though they are used for high level sword- and hammerdwarves). Do you have plans for these colors for new or improved civilian classes in the future?
If not, I'm off to the suggestion forum.
They are dark purple AFAIK.Hi!Isn't purple used by traders? (And scholars, etc., but those are sort of like nobles.)
In fort mode, I've noticed that the legendary blue of a peasant and legendary purple of a noble aren't used as non-legendary "base" colors for any other civilian profession (though they are used for high level sword- and hammerdwarves). Do you have plans for these colors for new or improved civilian classes in the future?
If not, I'm off to the suggestion forum.
They are dark purple AFAIK.Hi!Isn't purple used by traders? (And scholars, etc., but those are sort of like nobles.)
In fort mode, I've noticed that the legendary blue of a peasant and legendary purple of a noble aren't used as non-legendary "base" colors for any other civilian profession (though they are used for high level sword- and hammerdwarves). Do you have plans for these colors for new or improved civilian classes in the future?
If not, I'm off to the suggestion forum.
Hi!
In fort mode, I've noticed that the legendary blue of a peasant and legendary magenta of a noble aren't used as non-legendary "base" colors for any other civilian profession (though they are used for high level sword- and hammerdwarves). Do you have plans for these colors for new or improved civilian classes in the future?
If not, I'm off to the suggestion forum.
- Dame de la Licorne
Toady, will this upcoming version have much more inclusion of pets for other NPC's to be using? ((like soldiers & groups dispatched from sites riding upon horses, or people's personal pets becoming involved in fights with their masters))Raiders take their pets with them right now and they get involved in the fighting. And you can be invaded by mounted troops. So, your question is about adding the ability to send mounted raiders?
I'd like to know about these two things (being actually elements of the same system, I guess?):Settling down and playing your grown up kids is in the dev notes somewhere. There are long threads in the suggestions forums discussing families and naming conventions.
1) Better lineage system and name generation. So that families will be more distinguishable, family members in the world trying to live in the same buildings, and, of course, all of them having same last name. Haven't seen this in planned updates, will it be implemented at some point?
2) Will it be possible to have some expanded family-level interaction? For example, greedy heirs giving you quests to assassinate the head of the family (as a subgroup of assassination quests mentioned in /dev), or possibility to gain influence with some people by helping their relatives (since losing it so that relatives seek revenge is already mentioned in /dev). Or even having a wife (or one-night stay) in adventure mode, birthing your adventurer's kid who is playable after growing up?
Settling down and playing your grown up kids is in the dev notes somewhere.If it is, it's not in public notes then. Double checked that searching by keywords.
Settling down and playing your grown up kids is in the dev notes somewhere.If it is, it's not in public notes then. Double checked that searching by keywords.
Rainseeker: Yeah, yeah. And the interesting thing, too, I think - or I was thinking about earlier today - would be to be able to have a lineage, a succession. For adventures, you know. You get married, you have a child, and you take over his line again. Maybe you could have some training that you could give your child, and then he gets some bonuses or something.
Toady: Yeah, the elements that - I think there's four or so elements that we decided broadly make that up and that's all in the development notes for the pre-version 1 stuff. So that's all going to go in sometime. We just have to get through the various hurdles of getting a spouse, and doing the time-forward motion, and stuff like that. And we've gotten quite a bit further with that now. I mean, your retired adventurers can already get married now.
RELATIONSHIPS ARC: You should be able to take a spouse, make a household, and create playable heirs as an adventurer. The dwarven relationships and personalities can also be expanded upon. Related to Core59, Core60, Bloat51, Bloat93, Bloat95, Bloat105, Bloat123, Bloat374, Bloat375, Bloat380, PowerGoal20, PowerGoal21, PowerGoal109 and PowerGoal119.
Core60, HEIRS, (Future): Having playable heirs in adventure mode would be fun. Dwarves should also do a bit more for their children than sometimes running to pick them up when they are crawling toward the magma vent as infants, and the notion of the family in general could afford to have more impact on the game.
Would you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.Id also like to know about this, Id love any chance to mess around with it before its finished.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who would find much amusement in messing with a prototype myth generator.Would you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.Id also like to know about this, Id love any chance to mess around with it before its finished.
Will ethics bound torture methods have any further development on the basis of helping uncover conspiratorial villian plots in the latest development log or are you putting them aside for later use?Toady mentioned this when it first came up a few months ago. Right now, Dwarven ethics will not allow torture, and that stands - but we'll see what the situation is when work starts.
Or procgen races being OK with torture or even requiring it.Will ethics bound torture methods have any further development on the basis of helping uncover conspiratorial villian plots in the latest development log or are you putting them aside for later use?Toady mentioned this when it first came up a few months ago. Right now, Dwarven ethics will not allow torture, and that stands - but we'll see what the situation is when work starts.
So, that would be interesting to get an update on.
Second, interrogating prisoners is marked for both Fortress and Adventurer, so isn't limited to dwarves even in vanilla. Humans are happy enough to torture. So if you can torture a captive in Adventurer, it'd presumably be easy enough for modded fortress mode civs to do the same (probably).
Just talking about the upcoming updates for now. The far future will be a lot more procedurally generated, yes, so really everything is up for a 'yeah possibly, no concrete plans yet' answer.Or procgen races being OK with torture or even requiring it.Will ethics bound torture methods have any further development on the basis of helping uncover conspiratorial villian plots in the latest development log or are you putting them aside for later use?Toady mentioned this when it first came up a few months ago. Right now, Dwarven ethics will not allow torture, and that stands - but we'll see what the situation is when work starts.
So, that would be interesting to get an update on.
Second, interrogating prisoners is marked for both Fortress and Adventurer, so isn't limited to dwarves even in vanilla. Humans are happy enough to torture. So if you can torture a captive in Adventurer, it'd presumably be easy enough for modded fortress mode civs to do the same (probably).
So when you mention a network, does that imply that each agent can have multiple agents of their own? Ie Urist McMastermind might have three lieutenants, and each of those might have two underlings. If so, or even if the mastermind gets caught in old or unrelated charges what does this mean when the Mastermind is caught? What happens to the remaining agents? Do they continue with the plot on their own terms, or do they abandon the quest out of self preservation?
Will we have the option join an existing villainous plot, say if we proved our loyaty to a villain?That's what the final paragraph about adventure mode villainy says, so yeah!
If I’m reading it correctly, then it was talking about creating plots, not joining them. So, shrug.Will we have the option join an existing villainous plot, say if we proved our loyaty to a villain?That's what the final paragraph about adventure mode villainy says, so yeah!
Ah, yeah, you're right.If I’m readcing it correctly, then it was talking about creating plots, not joining them. So, shrug.Will we have the option join an existing villainous plot, say if we proved our loyaty to a villain?That's what the final paragraph about adventure mode villainy says, so yeah!
Would you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.Id also like to know about this, Id love any chance to mess around with it before its finished.
Huh. The devlog about villainy actually reminded me of That Which Sleeps. Which makes me a little sad, but also very excited about the possibilities in the upcoming updates.What is That Which Sleeps?
:Presumably, the map rewrite should set the stage for the underground as well. However, the actors won't just magically appear out of that, but instead there'd have to be work specifically for the civs, and I'd expect there would be two different branches to that:
As a followup to my previous question on underground cave rivers, will the terrain rewrite hypothetically allow for subterranean civilizations? The current iteration of subterranean animal people don't work too well as of the latest version, but they were pretty bare bones to begin with. Could this allow for them to be a little closer to normal civs if only in terms of being able to build sites underground?
The devblog seems to indicate that you won't be able to, "...if a character is in your official starting party, you can swap control between them freely..."
2. After creating the party and adventuring out, will we be able to switch between newly recruited members?
Perhaps a bit too suggestion-y, but maybe it could also work the other way: the leaders of a dying civ plotting to get revenge?
Have you been able to do any long-term testing on stress effects in 44.12? I haven't seen a lot of bug reports on Mantis, but negative effects are still vastly overpowering positive ones, in addition to friendship-forming being exceedingly difficult. The most specific bug I know of is a Dorf's favorite food must be that specific cut (pig heart vs. pig meat). The 'lack of decent meals' thought occurs regardless of food quality, depending entirely on favorite ingredient.slight oversight there - the colour should preferably be like this and not your apparent pick, if attention from the Toad is what you're looking for.
The most specific bug I know of is a Dorf's favorite food must be that specific cut (pig heart vs. pig meat). The 'lack of decent meals' thought occurs regardless of food quality, depending entirely on favorite ingredient.It's been this way as long as I can remember. The 'bug' report is new but the shortcoming it points to (at least as I see it - it could also be intentional :) ) is that the favoured ingredient is not properly/completely reported in thoughts and preferences. Not a general problem with the mechanic of giving positive meal thoughts; although unsatisfiable preferences do rear their head here as elsewhere. (The pathfinding involved seems a little curious though...http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171322.msg7808575#msg7808575 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171322.msg7808575#msg7808575).) The strength of the happiness is directly related to the quality of the meal - it is just that with no preferred ingredient it is multiplied by zero. ;)
slight oversight there - the colour should preferably be like this and not your apparent pick, if attention from the Toad is what you're looking for.Graci :)
Interesting. That's the only specific one that I know of, though I think my original query stands.The most specific bug I know of is a Dorf's favorite food must be that specific cut (pig heart vs. pig meat). The 'lack of decent meals' thought occurs regardless of food quality, depending entirely on favorite ingredient.It's been this way as long as I can remember. The 'bug' report is new but the shortcoming it points to (at least as I see it - it could also be intentional :) ) is that the favoured ingredient is not properly/completely reported in thoughts and preferences. Not a general problem with the mechanic of giving positive meal thoughts; although unsatisfiable preferences do rear their head here as elsewhere. (The pathfinding involved seems a little curious though...http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171322.msg7808575#msg7808575 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171322.msg7808575#msg7808575).) The strength of the happiness is directly related to the quality of the meal - it is just that with no preferred ingredient it is multiplied by zero. ;)
Will flying mounts be supported?
Will mounts in combat attack enemies indepedently of its rider?
Will bears be riddable by dwarves ?
Currently, firing a bow or xbow prevents a player from doing anything for several rounds (usually resulting in them getting chopped to pieces). Will our new steeds continue to move while their riders shoot from horseback? Or will they also pause and get chopped to pieces?
Since you've mentioned that mounts will wander around without direct input from the player, will we get the ability to tie them to trees and buildings and such so that we don't lose them?Well, they can't open doors, so you could build a stable or use someone's house.
If your mount will keep moving intelligently while you reload after firing a weapon, I foresee horse archers being OP. Just as things should be~I bet the AI would just make them run straight into the enemies instead of backing off and staying at range. Unless maybe if the work on the new tactical combat orders stuff for companions leads Toady to implement a "stay at range" order and we could assign that to military squads in fort mode. Would be great.
Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
It should have a height advantage as well, when DF gets around it.
Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Toady has stated in the devlog that the mount's increased speed should be transferred to the weapon during ride-by attacks. So, there's at least that.
2 and 3 would depend on the world, but they sound quite basic, so likely yes. 1 is magic customizability, which is coming in the second myth release.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
It should have a height advantage as well, when DF gets around it.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Toady has stated in the devlog that the mount's increased speed should be transferred to the weapon during ride-by attacks. So, there's at least that.
Oh boy, can't wait to get kneecapped by a goblin riding a cheetah at high speeds.
1. Will it be possible to designate certain body parts to be where magic originates on a person/creature via modding? So say, for instance, an earthbender dwarf with the magic originating from their hands and feet.
2. Also are the gods/deities/primordials/titans/ect going to be generated as physical beings too? Like, an actual being moving around physically in the world or on one of the plains and is capable of being killed and can switch between planes, ect.
3. Will Divine Metals actually have any divine properties and will they be able to be found in their related sphere Biome (if Biomes related on Spheres is actually happening)?
2 and 3 would depend on the world, but they sound quite basic, so likely yes. 1 is magic customizability, which is coming in the second myth release.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
It should have a height advantage as well, when DF gets around it.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Toady has stated in the devlog that the mount's increased speed should be transferred to the weapon during ride-by attacks. So, there's at least that.
Oh boy, can't wait to get kneecapped by a goblin riding a cheetah at high speeds.
1. Will it be possible to designate certain body parts to be where magic originates on a person/creature via modding? So say, for instance, an earthbender dwarf with the magic originating from their hands and feet.
2. Also are the gods/deities/primordials/titans/ect going to be generated as physical beings too? Like, an actual being moving around physically in the world or on one of the plains and is capable of being killed and can switch between planes, ect.
3. Will Divine Metals actually have any divine properties and will they be able to be found in their related sphere Biome (if Biomes related on Spheres is actually happening)?
Pretty sure that nobody knows how the features in the first and following magic releases will be divided except (possibly) Toady right now.We just know that the magic editor will likely be in the second arc.
Yes, in the second arc, so 4 years-ish later.2 and 3 would depend on the world, but they sound quite basic, so likely yes. 1 is magic customizability, which is coming in the second myth release.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
It should have a height advantage as well, when DF gets around it.Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?
Toady has stated in the devlog that the mount's increased speed should be transferred to the weapon during ride-by attacks. So, there's at least that.
Oh boy, can't wait to get kneecapped by a goblin riding a cheetah at high speeds.
1. Will it be possible to designate certain body parts to be where magic originates on a person/creature via modding? So say, for instance, an earthbender dwarf with the magic originating from their hands and feet.
2. Also are the gods/deities/primordials/titans/ect going to be generated as physical beings too? Like, an actual being moving around physically in the world or on one of the plains and is capable of being killed and can switch between planes, ect.
3. Will Divine Metals actually have any divine properties and will they be able to be found in their related sphere Biome (if Biomes related on Spheres is actually happening)?
Hm, so would it be possible to mod magic and have it a specific way for various mods (like MLP mods, or Avatar mods or Skyrim mods, ect?)
We can guess that. The only statement Toady made on the matter (that I recall) was that it was interesting enough to possibly make the first release. Besides, the editor isn't the same as modding. Toady reassured everyone about modding last month, didn't he?Pretty sure that nobody knows how the features in the first and following magic releases will be divided except (possibly) Toady right now.We just know that the magic editor will likely be in the second arc.
Quote from: Fatace
1. When the new Magic System comes out, will it be customiseable for modders to add other magic related things with raws?
Toady:
1. Yeah. The backbone of the current magic system, the interactions, are in the raws now, and that's not going to change. The procedural stuff will also be text-file directed. As with the procedural creatures, certain specific new cases (who knows which) might remain hard-coded as they grow into maturity, but we're intentionally trying to keep that from happening wherever possible, making sure everything 'vanilla' can be shut off (which is a requirement for the no-magic slider position at the very least), and thinking about formats which allow people to inject their own guiding data into the procedures with varying degrees of vagueness.
We can guess that. The only statement Toady made on the matter (that I recall) was that it was interesting enough to possibly make the first release. Besides, the editor isn't the same as modding. Toady reassured everyone about modding last month, didn't he?Pretty sure that nobody knows how the features in the first and following magic releases will be divided except (possibly) Toady right now.We just know that the magic editor will likely be in the second arc.
Very specific editing (like the above example) would probably need the fixed editor, but I imagine modding normally could achieve a lot, as it does now.QuoteQuote from: Fatace
1. When the new Magic System comes out, will it be customiseable for modders to add other magic related things with raws?
Toady:
1. Yeah. The backbone of the current magic system, the interactions, are in the raws now, and that's not going to change. The procedural stuff will also be text-file directed. As with the procedural creatures, certain specific new cases (who knows which) might remain hard-coded as they grow into maturity, but we're intentionally trying to keep that from happening wherever possible, making sure everything 'vanilla' can be shut off (which is a requirement for the no-magic slider position at the very least), and thinking about formats which allow people to inject their own guiding data into the procedures with varying degrees of vagueness.
Well, unless anything's changed in the past 30 days, that's your answer there, just above your question. You should also be able to add objects to the myth generator like comets and whatever, like in the prototype. Not sure what kind of impact they can have beyond textual. I expect you can link them to spheres and stuff.We can guess that. The only statement Toady made on the matter (that I recall) was that it was interesting enough to possibly make the first release. Besides, the editor isn't the same as modding. Toady reassured everyone about modding last month, didn't he?Pretty sure that nobody knows how the features in the first and following magic releases will be divided except (possibly) Toady right now.We just know that the magic editor will likely be in the second arc.
Very specific editing (like the above example) would probably need the fixed editor, but I imagine modding normally could achieve a lot, as it does now.QuoteQuote from: Fatace
1. When the new Magic System comes out, will it be customiseable for modders to add other magic related things with raws?
Toady:
1. Yeah. The backbone of the current magic system, the interactions, are in the raws now, and that's not going to change. The procedural stuff will also be text-file directed. As with the procedural creatures, certain specific new cases (who knows which) might remain hard-coded as they grow into maturity, but we're intentionally trying to keep that from happening wherever possible, making sure everything 'vanilla' can be shut off (which is a requirement for the no-magic slider position at the very least), and thinking about formats which allow people to inject their own guiding data into the procedures with varying degrees of vagueness.
Yea this was what I was thinking of. I just thought he had said something in between then and now. I guess the better question would To what extent will we be able to Mod the Magic and Myth systems?
Can mounts jump? IIRC, animal men can't, so not sure if mounts can.Similarly, could a rider use a mount with climbing abilities to get through terrain they couldn't easily traverse on their own? While riding a giant cave spider, could you get through webs safely?
Some animal men can jump, tested with fox-people and wolf-people.Can mounts jump? IIRC, animal men can't, so not sure if mounts can.Similarly, could a rider use a mount with climbing abilities to get through terrain they couldn't easily traverse on their own? While riding a giant cave spider, could you get through webs safely?
Does size matter, or can any mount carry any rider?
In DF Talk 21 Toady mentioned that this was already the case. So I assume so.
1) You mentioned that the player's velocity while riding a mount will be added to their attacks: will an equal bonus be applied by enemies who are, say, stabbing their pike at the horseman?
Can mounts jump? IIRC, animal men can't, so not sure if mounts can.Similarly, could a rider use a mount with climbing abilities to get through terrain they couldn't easily traverse on their own? While riding a giant cave spider, could you get through webs safely?
Does size matter, or can any mount carry any rider?
Can mounts jump? IIRC, animal men can't, so not sure if mounts can.Similarly, could a rider use a mount with climbing abilities to get through terrain they couldn't easily traverse on their own? While riding a giant cave spider, could you get through webs safely?
Does size matter, or can any mount carry any rider?
Providing the creature riding listens, while aquatic/amphibious creatures can take you on a magical journey under the waves it should be a lot safer for the rider now to cross water without drowning by accident, and if the AI improves for putting the riders in charge of deciding where to take thier mounts (like across the surface of water only) the NPC riders should respond in kind.
Do reactions like shooting fireballs, for example have any effect on off-site battles?No.
This may have been asked before, but:
Are there any near-term plans to add in 'friendly' missions? Right now, you can either explore abandoned ruins, or raid an occupied site. Are there any, again near-term, plans to, say, send a diplomat to another site to say "Yo!" or to send your own trading caravans out to nearby retreats, towns, and fortresses?
I know there are plans to flesh out diplomacy properly, so this kind of thing will probably wait until then. I was just wondering if there might be an interim period, especially with the player-created trading caravan thing.
Do reactions like shooting fireballs, for example have any effect on off-site battles?No.
I have a question about FotF itself. If there was an answer on the question from one of the guys from forum and Toady just adds some thoughts about it but not answering from the beginning can the original answer be posted in FotF along with Toady's answer or at least postlinked?
1. As your fort get more integrated in the world, how do hillocks interact with the surrounding biome right now (and in the future)? Will settling in an evil biome cause the hillocks that grow around your fort to have an undead/syndrome problem? Could they be overrun by the undead and end up with an invasion of your fort? Will you be able to send troops there to guard/fend off undead, beasts and such? Do sending troops there right now do anything?
2. Tying to the previous question, will we be able to "refuse" hillocks settlements? And if that's the case, I imagine the system would work as charts, with migrants (or citizens of your fort) asking for a chart to settle a land nearby. You could deny them because it's too dangerous, for example. How would the current count/barony system tie with the fact that hillock might not pop up because you denied them/place is too remote?
3. Conversely, how do/will hillocks interact with invaders? Could a necromancer rampage through the hillocks to try and raise a larger army to invade you? Would you be able to send patrols to try and intercept the necromancer before it snowballs in a huge army of the undead?
4. You are now moving to the "villain role", though I'm not sure this is "individual" (as in adventurer is a bad guy) or generic (goblins, "large scale bad guys"). Tied into that is slavery in the dev page, though only mentioned 3 times. Slaves right now are a rare occasion and only happen during site destruction in world gen. Since we have more assets now (hillocks) than just the fort itself, will that shift the paradigm of invaders to relate to all that? Let me give a few examples. Right now all invaders want your complete destruction, but it would make more sense for them to want your partial destruction just for their own gain.
4.1 It's pretty easy to lock yourself right now and wait for a siege to pass (ignoring future tunneling units), but wouldn't the invading army raid/plunder the hillocks while you hide (which would also make the invasion last longer, since they have supplies)? Could a siege be done for specifically to gather slaves/undead without losing a lot of lives from the invading force while they force the army (you) to be shut in your fort or occasionally harass you if you try to stray too far away from the fort?
4.2 Tying to 4.1, what kind of problems would this cause for the player? Refugees you can't deny/or deny with consequences? The need to divert resources to reconstruct hillocks? Demotion from duke/barony status (can that even happen?)? Overall anger and sadness in your fort population by the destruction caused in their neighbors or isolation of being locked in the fort?
4.3 Will invaders ever attack you not only aiming for your total destruction? Could it be that they just want to carry off the riches they can and set out? Would some slavers drive by and just take your citizens then go off?
4.4 With the upcoming villain stuff, will invaders use hillocks citizens to try and get to you? Could they occupy a site and hold it for ransom and convince a citizen to come to your fort to, let's say, pull the bridge lever when they come?
5. Will the role of "raider" get in this release? (In the sense of temporary forces, either outlaws or enemies, that come to take people or valuables, causing death and destruction but not enough to end the game)
6. Finally, are there respective plans for the stuff I asked in any arc, if it's not coming in the current cycle of hillock/villains?
1. Will villain level behaviours carry over to more legimate characters? After all Religions are not that much different then cults. Kindoms or Groups of Guards work in a way like gangs on a grander scale too or with different goals.
2. Will Players be an active part of those things. Say a cult officialy wanting to etablish a temple at your fort, Rulers demanding (not just requesting) gear or Warriors. Quests to steal/retrieve certain artefacts where your Adventurer or Fort are approached from a third party (even under false pretenses). Down to a thievesguild using your messhall as meetingplace.
3. Will you be able to enact your own devious plots? Paying people to do "evil" action like assasinating certain people or sending out some of your adventurergroups to recover certain things for you or set stuff in motion.
4. Will there be interaction between the various villian groups and persons? One cult undermining another, certain banditgroups working together and sharing information etc. ?
QuoteThe whole concept of 'demon' will float as the sliders move; we've made some semantic charts for 'demon', 'fairy', 'angel', 'titan', 'god', 'force', 'spirit', etc., and we're trying not to be beholden to English entirely when assigning categories to supernatural creatures, as that can be really limiting.
1. If I'm not mistaken, does this mean that we could generally predict the behavior of a creature based on its tag?
2. Additionally, is the category system intended to generate creatures with certain characteristics based on the tag assigned to the entity? As in, "fairies are generally cute flying things" while "angels are divine entities". That sort of thing.
3. Lastly, if the semantic charts do influence the creature's generation, does "trying not to be beholden to English" mean new creature types? Basically, if you were to create a tag for hellenic creatures, would they conform to what we'd expect from Greek mythology? Would a youkai sit in the mountains yelling at people rather than attacking like a normal night creature? Does this create the possibility for a world to generate with sub-classes of specific creature types? For example, dividing the fairies (or anything, really) into two "courts" that don't get along and have certain traits associated with the type.
With improvements to sieges include some sort of look at balancing the cage trap. Right now it's a very icky thing that pops up when I play, whether or not to use them or not. While of course players can just use restraint, it's nicer to have mechanical reasons. The dev page mentioned somewhere about multi-tile traps, but is there perhaps a few short-term tweaks that could make cage traps a bit less powerful? Right now if you build enough of them to match the invader cap, you really don't have to do much but open the gates and capture everyone.
Granted, I noticed in an older fort after 34.11 that invaders seem more cautious towards traps, and I can't tell if this is noted anywhere, but I noticed that attacking goblins very slowly creeped down my main trap hallway, as if suspiciously, and immediately ran out and refused to enter my fort once one got trapped. I don't know if this is a feature or bug or some other behavior, but it's in the same realm of trap balance improvements.
A question that i thought of today: are there any plans to expand gender within the game?
currently, all characters seem to be cisgender and dyadic, with some inherently genderless beings like sponge men mixed in, so expanding on this would add in more representation and variety to the game. i could also see it slotting in with the laws and customs expansion mentioned in the Fortress Starting Scenarios framework, since some of the customs and laws (not necessarily ones added in the initial update, but maybe sometime later) could revolve around the roles and definitions of genders within a society, stuff like what it means in this society to "be a man/woman/whatever other genders this society has"
With the map rewrite, can we expect floating islands and castles in the sky? If so, will they move over the map? That would suggest the possibility of a segue into mobile forts and ships.
If you were going to start making DF from scratch again, what would you do differently?
1. What can we expect for medical options with the upcoming Adventure mode medical improvements? Will there be doctors like in fortress mode, and/or will it be up to the player character to diagnose and heal their injuries?
2. Will the Semi/Megabeasts become more unique with the myth/magic update? Will they be procedurally generated similarly to forgotten beasts, just with more limitations so that they can still be recognized as hydras, dragons, cyclops, etc?
3. Is there any future plans for a manual way to progress time in a world, without going into/out of a fortress/adventure mode save?
How do you protect the DF code from getting lost?
Quote from: FantasticDorfWill this villian arc centre on whichever 'villian' has the most interesting solution/improvement, or do you have a specific heirarchy/plan of which goals you want to follow up and improve upon from the proposed candidates?
Will you continue to improve the messengers you introduced in this version onwards for this Arc? Or are they going to be temporarily postponed until villians get a little bit more attention?Quote from: TinnucorchAre we going to see some kind of expansion of diplomacy now that we have messengers? Or will that wait until things like status, law, etc. are adressed? In the latter case, what would be the reasons?
1. Can we expect some improvements regarding hostilities in adventure mode to be part of the villain arc? Banditry, in particular. I've read various comments on this forum about how in a time before time, bandits were actually aggressive and attacked you when walking straight into their encampment. Currently, they tend to ignore you, unless they are on a specific mission to rob someone, in which case they might try to rob the player, but only after nonchalantly chatting about the weather and inquiring about why one is travelling. Any chance things will get a bit more dynamic in this regard before the long wait?
2. I noticed that if bandits actually try to rob you, they start a non-lethal conflict should you refuse to submit, which is a very nice touch! Is there any chance non-lethal victories over bandits or entities in general will be kept track of by the game and tied into the reputation system, eventually? I imagine something like being able to accuse someone of banditry, then beating them up to the point where they yield, and then being able to "summarize the conflict in which you subdued Stealy McBandit", resulting in a reputation gain without being considered a killer.
3. As you probably noticed by now, I am especially fond of the adventure mode part of the game. I am aware that this would probably fall into the economy arc and is not a priority, but is there any chance coins will become stackable before the long wait, and paying tavern keepers with currency will become an option? This is admittedly a minor issue, but I just have to ask, for I seemingly have a coin fetish going and tend to carry ridiculously large quantities of them with me.
Is the Golden Salve intended to be given some use during the magic stuff?
As you implement magical mechanics, how do you think you will do with mundane engineered equivalents? Will they come along later with the functional reworks to their overarching systems, done before, or as we go along?
For a couple of examples, based on what I've heard is going to come when mythgen has come to pass (That is to say: mythgen is something I've heard that is likely already planned to do what I'm listing, I'm just listing the mundane counterparts we don't have yet):
-Magic that immobilizes and moves the targets vs mundane restraints and dragging units, which would likely come with the justice rework.
-Magic that treats and cures ailments vs functional mundane apothecaries and knowledge-system implemented medicine.
-Magic that bends the mind vs functional coercion, interrogation and mechanical feedback on social situations from the character's social skills.
And so forth. I'm not suggesting these particular mechanics get implemented, just asking where they sit in relation to release priority their likely-magical-counterparts that'll come during the mythgen releases.
That aside though, thanks for the new update, Toady! It's been a world of fun keeping up with the dramatic new changes you're doing! That makes me think of one more question.
How does it feel now that the sphere of influence of the player's fortresses are now really starting to stick their fingers to the local world? I understand that the "bringing the world alive" updates were both more ambitious, and basically necessary before these new changes came to exist, but seeing those foundations come together in really cool player-usable mechanics must be pretty exciting, yeah?
So, given it seems you can encounter non-questors taking the identity of criminal, and it seems they might not always actually have a criminal record, what even is the justification for them being labelled criminals?
I'm immediately thinking up the mental image of them calling themselves that a being basically some sort of fantasy-realm punk subculture thing.
Civilizations have an effective distance before they're not considered contacts for you in dwarf fortress mode. Does sending raiding parties extend their sights a bit when considering retaliation, or are you effectively immune to their influence at such distances?
Is formation-specific AI something that will be included in this pass with the party-scale adventure mode situation, or is that fiddling for another arc? That is to say, in the general sense of players and NPC commanders issuing orders to have their squads stand with them in combat in some particular manner.
Party based systems would be glorious to have formation-style combat with, but I can see reasons why it might not be presently considered.
Will characters in a party created by the player have the same needs as a single character has currently, like food and water needs?
With the ability to make multiple starting characters in adventure mode, will we still get a game over when our designated party leader dies, or can we continue playing with others in the party?
Regarding the creation of adventurer parties, will the other created adventurers have the same restrictions in terms of available race?
What I mean is, if a civ only has dwarves available as adventurers, will we only be able to start dwarves from there, or will the "main" adventurer have the dwarf-only restriction, but other party members will be able to be humans, elves, etc. as mercs or friends of the main adventurer?
1. In the monthly report you said you would be adding more to what villains do in the game such as vampire cults. In this villain fleshing out update will player adventurers be able to join vampire cults and do missions for them with the possible reward of getting to drink a vampire in the cult's blood?
2. Will player vampires be able to start their own vampire cults and recruit NPCs to serve them? Will they be able to promote their cultists to full vampires by offering them their blood in this villain fleshing out update?
3. Will bandit groups give player lieutenants quest types different than what a hearth person would get in this villain fleshing out update?
4. Finally will criminal groups finally do more than just hang out underground in this villain fleshing out update? Maybe steal some stuff at night?
Will your adventurer be able to talk about how much they love their pets? How much can you interact with a pet? Can I show off my cool pet to someone I think will like it, and will vermin haters be like "ack, gross! get that outta my face?" Can I give my vermin pet stuff to chew on, put it in barrels, or put it down? Will we be able to put animals in wooden cages on our property now? If you made an animal whose younger forms were shoulder pet sized but as an adult is bigger than you, which of those sizes is it going to think about in terms of its mechanics? Can you tag a pet for both vermin and mounts?
Unrelated, what about pits and dark fortresses make them unsleepable?
I've modded my goblins to be more sociable but their new taverns still don't sound very inviting since you have to stumble through the trenches drunk to sleep. Although that is a very Dwarf Fortress experience.
Will you add fireworks, cannons, hand cannons, rocket arrows or other gun powder based inventions at any point?
In the upcoming adventure mode update can you throw vermin pets as weapons like you can with the normal vermin you find with 'L'ook?
These ended up being questions with random braindumps attached. Don't mind that, I enjoy rambling.
1. After magic, etc, are there plans for technological advancement over time?
I'm not really thinking of the time period the typical fortress / adventure starts or ends in, but after many ages of the world pass. Maybe the age of the dwarves comes, and with the forgotten beasts and mythical style creatures dead we end up with more complex machinery, digging machinery, composite materials, etc. You can spend more time on research when you're not dealing with insane fire breathing winged snails, I've been told.
Humans have the shortest life spans and might advance medicine due to that, tactics in war, weapons like everyone else, energy generation because the dwarves are no longer around to teach their now-mythical free-energy machines nor would they have anyway...
The elves might dominate and refine their love of trees into a potentially dangerous genetic engineering type scenario... grow trees harder than slade and nobody can cut them down easily, but the plant life itself starts becoming a threat to normally treeless biomes, water supply, etc in exchange for practically indestructible grown items.
Maybe one race doesn't end up dominating, but partners with another.
Clowns (if they're still around) might "civilize" and invent an intentionally obfuscated legal system and fast food. Or they might have sat around watching for long enough to realize that if the dwarves all need alcohol to get through the working day, they might eventually need far worse things to get through the day.
Maybe it isn't new technology at all... ever wonder where everything from the dwarven atom smasher ends up? Well, it's approaching critical mass in 3 other dimensions long forgotten about. The inhabitants are very angry about this lump of neutron-degenerate matter about a year away from collapsing into a singularity and are doing something about it... Welcome to the age of myth 2, electric boogaloo.
Those are just random examples. Half the technology invented might be useless in a given world, or developed in response to a problem that stopped existing by the time it was complete. Maybe it's still magic fueled, and magic is scientifically proven.
2. A much simpler one... Gunpowder brings a lot of other kinds of fun, but just reading about history, what about these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow, not necessarily with the poison?
They're not a massive technological leap from the complex mechanisms + crossbows the dwarves already have, and don't really do much except make citizens either more or less of a liability during a siege. Hand them out and hope they help and don't start shooting other dwarves for fun, or just let the military use them as a shorter distance but faster-firing crossbow...
Toady, will this upcoming version have much more inclusion of pets for other NPC's to be using? ((like soldiers & groups dispatched from sites riding upon horses, or people's personal pets becoming involved in fights with their masters))
<Followup post> about histfigures already being mounted upon animals or surrounded by war animals like bandits in the world already with a clear relation of ownership more than a question about mounted raiding, which toady has replied to answers to in the past in respects for being mounted upon animals having certain advantages over difficult terrain etc.
In fort mode, I've noticed that the legendary blue of a peasant and legendary magenta of a noble aren't used as non-legendary "base" colors for any other civilian profession (though they are used for high level sword- and hammerdwarves). Do you have plans for these colors for new or improved civilian classes in the future?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerYou mention that only members of your starting party will be directly controllable in the upcoming adventurer additions (besides in turn based combat, presumably). What's stopping you from allowing direct control of histfigs who join your party later? Is it just the interactions you'd have to add ('Hi Dad!'), or is there something complex you need to do before we can take control of the destinies of 'real people'?
Oh, just noticed "equipment pages". That's gorlak sized helmets without the need to make them in a fortress first, right? Woot!Quote from: FataceAfter creating the party and adventuring out, will we be able to switch between newly recruited members?
With the introduction of better adventure mode party mechanics, has the idea of the possibility to spar with a party member to help gain levels in combat skills come around, and will this be possible even if you recruit someone after making the party?
Would you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.
1) Better lineage system and name generation. So that families will be more distinguishable, family members in the world trying to live in the same buildings, and, of course, all of them having same last name. Haven't seen this in planned updates, will it be implemented at some point?
2) Will it be possible to have some expanded family-level interaction? For example, greedy heirs giving you quests to assassinate the head of the family (as a subgroup of assassination quests mentioned in /dev), or possibility to gain influence with some people by helping their relatives (since losing it so that relatives seek revenge is already mentioned in /dev). Or even having a wife (or one-night stay) in adventure mode, birthing your adventurer's kid who is playable after growing up?
Quote from: GenericUserWith the addition of parties, will we be able to start as a performance troupe from setup or will we have to do so after the adventure starts?
It would be really cool to have a sort of traveling band spreading dwarves music across the world.Quote from: DGWhen creating multiple characters for Adventure mode will they have initial relationships between themselves similar to a Fortress mode starting 7? If so, will it be random, fixed, or customizable*?Quote from: Slozgo LuzmaWill we be able to define interpersonal relationships between adventurers? For instance can our party consist of sibling, parent and child, spouses, or distant cousins? By extension will adventurers have to belong to the same entity?
1. Will more than one person be able to sit on a single mount if the mount is big enough?
2. Will riders of mounts be able to control the abilities of the mounts? For example, would a rider of a giant armadillo, for example, be able to have the creature retract into its shell at will, or would the creature only do that on its own?
3. Will we see mounted soldiers in adventure mode if we stumble across a travelling army?
4. Will there be any changes to mounted unit AI in battle? Will someone on horseback with a bow try to stay away from melee soldiers, if they don't already? Will flying units do the same?
With regards to agents/conspiracy/intrigue in the recent devblog, will players in Adventure mode be susceptible to being "turned" by plotters? E.g, the usual "troubles" dialogue could have falsified information if you ask an agent, to get you to unwittingly attack a target of the plot by describing them as a "bandit" or similar?
Will ethics bound torture methods have any further development on the basis of helping uncover conspiratorial villian plots in the latest development log or are you putting them aside for later use?
So, to expand on what you said in the devblog, if your mayor, your Captain of the Guard your bookkeeper and all your temple dancers are secretly plotting the downfall of civilization, what kind of Fun can we expect? Or is this 'hidden fun stuff' on a social level that we'll just have to discover for ourselves?
So when you mention a network, does that imply that each agent can have multiple agents of their own? Ie Urist McMastermind might have three lieutenants, and each of those might have two underlings. If so, or even if the mastermind gets caught in old or unrelated charges what does this mean when the Mastermind is caught? What happens to the remaining agents? Do they continue with the plot on their own terms, or do they abandon the quest out of self preservation?
Will we have the option join an existing villainous plot, say if we proved our loyaty to a villain?
As a followup to my previous question on underground cave rivers, will the terrain rewrite hypothetically allow for subterranean civilizations? The current iteration of subterranean animal people don't work too well as of the latest version, but they were pretty bare bones to begin with. Could this allow for them to be a little closer to normal civs if only in terms of being able to build sites underground?
1. What do you think will be the full extend of possible rewards a villainous player could get for working for villains as their agent in their schemes in the upcoming villain fleshing out update? Like how many possible rewards can you list off the top of your head, please tell me.
2. If you are an agent of someone else can you still continue the branching chain of command by enticing with money or positions some subordinate agents to work for you to continue your master's plans?
3. Could being an agent for someone be a possible way to gain a civ level position as stated as one of the pre myth and magic release candidates?
4. Can you give me some examples of what agent missions would be like?
You mention that you're using agreements instead of an entity for villain networks; I wondered if there was any mechanism planned for switching between the two?
For example, if a villainous group keeps adding layers to its network, it could end up with enough influence that the player might naturally think of it more like a civ they were at war with.
Perhaps a bit too suggestion-y, but maybe it could also work the other way: the leaders of a dying civ plotting to get revenge?
So, there's a bug, or perhaps unintended 'feature' right now in which hist-fig citizens of your civ are out working as spies when they get migrated to your fortress (often dragged along by a family member). They retain their fake name and profession (dead give away as no other migrants have visitor types like peddler, criminal, etc) but otherwise act normally (but annoyingly retain their fake profession name even when in the military).
So, I'm just wondering what exactly is the "correct" behavior for these guys. Are they not meant to migrate in? Or should they revert to their original names? Or are they being cautious and are actually meant to retain their fake identities?
These poor dorfs are already highly suspicious and have no doubt succumbed to magma accidents by the hundreds so far. It's only going to get worse for them when villains start plotting and you have to chain someone up for interrogation.
Have you been able to do any long-term testing on stress effects in 44.12? I haven't seen a lot of bug reports on Mantis, but negative effects are still vastly overpowering positive ones, in addition to friendship-forming being exceedingly difficult. The most specific bug I know of is a Dorf's favorite food must be that specific cut (pig heart vs. pig meat). The 'lack of decent meals' thought occurs regardless of food quality, depending entirely on favorite ingredient.
1) If a spy were to say, have an ‘unfourtunate accident’, would there be any ramifications, i.e. someone being sent to find out what happened or friends trying to get revenge on the fort?
2) Will you be able to send spies to find news about the fate of your squads, if they don’t return?
3) Would a spy (or network) be able to influence an election, or the choosing of a monarch, if they hold enough sway?
4) Would spies be able to sabotage relations, or ‘convince’ two cives to fight each other?
5) Will the punishment for spies be subject to civ ethics on Treason if the crime were severe enough?
With mounted adventurers, are we close to seeing fortress dwarves mount up on whatever's handy to meet their mounted invaders in a glorious clash? Or is that still a way off?
Are you considering using the 'mount control' mechanics in possessions by poltergeists / deities or even charm spells?
Perhaps a comparison between willpowers to determine whether a command is followed or not.
Quote from: FataceIf pets are possible.. will there be a update to let adventure mode players tame creatures?Quote from: Death Dragon"So if the mount is having an important issue of some kind, like being terrified, it won't necessarily follow your command, though they are pretty good about obeying."
Does how good the mount is at obeying depend on the rider's and/or the mount's skill, or is it more simple than that? Are there rider/mount skills or trust levels or anything?Quote from: 5crownik007Will riding a mount give any combat advantages? In the Mount & Blade games, riding your mount gives speed to your weapon swing and bonuses to your attack damage, as well as making yourself difficult to hit by infantry. Will there be a mount-riding skill where if your skill is too low, your mount may turn tail and run in combat?Quote from: Buttery_MessSpeaking of which, will you be adding adventure mode taming alongside the ability to ride mounts?
Q: Will mounts be required to be assigned war animals, pets or (in fortress mode) will they be able to be used interchangebly with any fortress member rather than a specific individual?
Will flying mounts be supported?
Will mounts in combat attack enemies indepedently of its rider?
Will bears be riddable by dwarves ?
Since you've mentioned that mounts will wander around without direct input from the player, will we get the ability to tie them to trees and buildings and such so that we don't lose them?
Quote from: Valtam1. Are mounts going to be chosen from the pool of a specific civ during adventurer creation? Say, an elf from a human civ can only access horses while an elf from an actual elven civ will get access to the whole zoo. Same with dwarves and whatever they have tamed so far.
2. Horses are known for being rather shy and skittish, so is proper war training going to be taken into account when leading them into battle?
3. Do horses or pets in general count as companions for purposes of bogeyman appearance?Quote from: Buttery_MessWill mounts act like buddies, protecting us from bogeymen?
So with the new adventurer starting party system, I have to wonder how things that force hostility between party members would work between members of the starting party. For example, party member A is a werelion and party member B is a vampire. If A in human form walked in on B during a feeding, would they be hostile to one another? And if so, could you still switch control between them? Same goes if they were out adventuring together and the full moon rose causing A to lion out on B. Or, alternatively, what if the player(playing as one of the two) decided to attack the other? I'm just throwing this out there cause I really like the idea for the new system but want to make sure it won't bug out at times like this.
Would a mountlike system work for Guarddoggos and such too? I mean you put a thought into theyr head anyway and their training (Skill) could augment these thoughts. So a trained Warhorse could be less fearfull then a basic working horse - a war or guard dog more cautious towards starngers etc.
Also with working mounts would it be possible to get a 3 item chain to utilize the strength of those Animals in fort? A horse being guided by a dworf while pulling a lorry?
Will all members of a starting party have to come from the same entity or will multicultural starting parties be possible?
If I recruit one of my former adventurers will I be able to switch control to them without retiring?
Quote from: Slozgo LuzmaYou mentioned that the player's velocity while riding a mount will be added to their attacks: will an equal bonus be applied by enemies who are, say, stabbing their pike at the horseman?
Currently, firing a bow or xbow prevents a player from doing anything for several rounds (usually resulting in them getting chopped to pieces). Will our new steeds continue to move while their riders shoot from horseback? Or will they also pause and get chopped to pieces?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAnd indeed, if I gallop full speed up to an enemy and take a swipe at them, will my horse just stop suddenly, or will it carry on moving past the enemy?
Quote from: Buttery_MessWill we be able to ride animated undead animals, even if they haven't been tamed?
Can mounts jump? IIRC, animal men can't, so not sure if mounts can.Quote from: Demonic GophersSimilarly, could a rider use a mount with climbing abilities to get through terrain they couldn't easily traverse on their own? While riding a giant cave spider, could you get through webs safely?
Does size matter, or can any mount carry any rider?
1. Will the "command your allies" feature allow you to properly equip companions without exploiting the trade screen? (IE "Hey Urist, equip that steel short sword I gave you!")
2. Will the ability to command allies extend to zombies created with Necromancy?
1. Will it be possible to designate certain body parts to be where magic originates on a person/creature via modding? So say, for instance, an earthbender dwarf with the magic originating from their hands and feet.
2. Also are the gods/deities/primordials/titans/ect going to be generated as physical beings too? Like, an actual being moving around physically in the world or on one of the plains and is capable of being killed and can switch between planes, ect.
3. Will Divine Metals actually have any divine properties and will they be able to be found in their related sphere Biome (if Biomes related on Spheres is actually happening)?
To what extent will we be able to Mod the Magic and Myth systems?
1. If you try to hop onto a untamed mount, will they throw you off?
2. Will we be able to tame/train wild animals in the near future, for the purpose of pets or mounts?
3. Will we be able to do “Hang on and try to calm” moves on spooked mounts?
4. Will we be able to knock others off a mount, or otherwise steal one?
5. If we get thrown off a mount, will we just magically appear unharmed on the ground, or will we actually be thrown?
With riding, do we get intentionally jumping on and holding onto other, larger creatures? Can i grab a dragon and hold on for dear life while trying to stab it?
Like, you can ride a creature as a mount, but can i pounce on wild horses and shiv them? Would they be able to shake me off or attack me?
Additionally, is it possible to attack your mount while making a targetted attack? If i accidentally shank my horse, will it immediately become hostile? Is there any way i can calm down an unintelligent mount?
Do reactions like shooting fireballs, for example have any effect on off-site battles?
Are there plans to ever implement a sort of an "Interesting start date" feature? To clarify - if, during worldgen, the game detects that some kind of interesting, massive upheaval is going to happen in the world (or at least, in some specific part of the world) the player would get the choice to stop worldgen there and start in a region of the world defined as most important for said scenario. This would allow for players to start playing a few years before stuff like huge extraplanar invasions, a large change in the magic system of the world (with it's accompanying effects), huge wars, the unleashing of an ancient evil, etc. Hence, players would actually be able to play the stereotypical D&D band of heroes out to save the world, or just to merely watch history unfold from the front seat.
When it comes to dwarven friendships, why not use some modern research into the topic (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/how-to-make-friends/565742/)?
Are there any near-term plans to add in 'friendly' missions? Right now, you can either explore abandoned ruins, or raid an occupied site. Are there any, again near-term, plans to, say, send a diplomat to another site to say "Yo!" or to send your own trading caravans out to nearby retreats, towns, and fortresses?
I know there are plans to flesh out diplomacy properly, so this kind of thing will probably wait until then. I was just wondering if there might be an interim period, especially with the player-created trading caravan thing.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSo, to expand on what you said in the devblog, if your mayor, your Captain of the Guard your bookkeeper and all your temple dancers are secretly plotting the downfall of civilization, what kind of Fun can we expect? Or is this 'hidden fun stuff' on a social level that we'll just have to discover for ourselves?
There may be some details in the logs as I do it, but this does seem like a rare opportunity to withhold some details, heh.
Hmm. Well, I can try this, but I'm finding this takes more of my time than I can manage. If the previous method hasn't been working, I'm not sure what to do.Do what you prefer, Toady. If you think it takes too much time, it's not necessary to do cause people can just look through the thread on their own if they really care about it.
Quote from: Random_DragonSo, given it seems you can encounter non-questors taking the identity of criminal, and it seems they might not always actually have a criminal record, what even is the justification for them being labelled criminals?
I'm immediately thinking up the mental image of them calling themselves that a being basically some sort of fantasy-realm punk subculture thing.
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7805208#msg7805208
golemgunk: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7806894#msg7806894
With future world generation changes making it more fantastic - less Earthlike - will things such as randomized biomes be possible? e.g. could you have a more erratic world that has fiery swamps -associated with Fire, Muck, and Peace- full of unicorns and satyrs, or a forest -associated with Healing, Darkness, and Defomority- that periodically has healing rain in addition to ogres and procgenned monsters?
Core94, RANDOMIZED REGIONS AND THEIR FLORA/FAUNA, (Future): The current good/evil regions should be scrapped and replaced by a system that aligns a region to varying degrees with a set of spheres. In this way you could end up with a desert where the stones sing or a forest where the trees bleed, with all sorts of randomly generated creatures and plants that are appropriate to the sphere settings. It's important that randomly generated objects be introduced to the player carefully during play rather than just being thrown one after another to allow for immersion, though there's also something to be said for cold dumping the player in a world with completely random settings, provided they can access enough information by looking/listening and having conversations, etc. Requires Core92.
Rainseeker: [3]Let's talk about spheres for a second. Are the zombies, skeletons, undead and such; are they going to appear only in the undead region sphere now? Or will they come in other areas too.
Toady: It depends on one of those things we were talking about, like do undead have souls, and what is the undead? If it's somebody combing partially back to life then it could be any sphere that's related to death or rebirth even; it's kind of weird to have the sphere of rebirth have undead things but it's possible.
Rainseeker: They're good zombies, maybe.
Toady: Yeah, they're good zombies, with little fairy hats and stuff ... whatever a fairy hat is. But then there's the notion of just animating a corpse, and that's the purview of death or if brooms and stuff are also moving around then it's more of a regular magical thing. But there's also the notion of having some kind of spirits from the underworld populate the body, then that could be any kind of evil.
Ampersand: There's also another concept of it being a disease that is passed between individuals.
Toady: Yeah, there's the viral zombie model ... [and] there's also the radiation zombie model I guess. So the viral thing, I don't know ... are they dead? Or are they ...
Capntastic: Their brain's just messed up by like ...
Toady: Yeah, viruses. I guess what the 28 Days Later model is it's just sort of a viral rage thing, but they aren't actually dead; is that correct? And then they starve to death. So any of those is fair game as they come up. Now, the undead that'll come in at first; I still have evil regions in this release so things will probably be the same as they were before, and then as I move over to sphere-based regions then at first it's going to be just kind of a death thing I guess, and to make them fairly common those will just be common areas. The whole idea of undead in general is going to be generalised to the notion of a curse, and that could just be some random sphere thing: there could just be a bunch of fire dear, and fire elk, and fire chipmunks and the fire man; that's kind of the cheesy thing that you'd expect out of the game after a while. Of course we can get more sophisticated but you don't start there.
Threetoe: Okay, so the second question comes from King Mir: 'You've stated previously how the good and evil regions are ultimately going to be replaced by sphere-aligned regions. Recently you added a lot to the evil regions; how have these changes affected your future plans? Are you going to put as much work into every sphere? Will some spheres be much more distinct than others, or will you just stick with good and evil?'
Toady: We did add a lot of undead and blood rain and mists and things floating around in the evil regions because we were just on our continuing night creatures drive, to get through those. It hasn't really affected the long-term plans. We still plan to diversify what the regions look like. The spheres ... talking about them specifically, like sphere-regions, is ... when you say, 'Will some be more distinct than others?' there are spheres like 'trade', or something like that, where because that's such a civilized concept ... there are probably going to be some spheres that simply aren't appropriate for regions, and a sphere is really just an idea, or a concept, so if you want to make one region more musical, or fiery, or evil, or torture-based, or darker, these different concepts ... that's really what we're getting at, that we wanted to have a strong sense of flavoring to the regions that sets the atmosphere but doesn't just go along this linear scale of good or evil, that allows things to be more diverse. So in a sense just adding stuff to the regions moves us along the way there. We haven't really started that project yet, but I it's still something that I think we're planning to do.
So on the case of these deities/titans/ect being physical, would it be possible for one to migrate/petition to join a fort or integrate itself into a civ in some form phsyically (like becoming king/queen of the dwarves) or even start up their own civ with themselves at the head of it?That last part about supernatural beings as civ leaders is already in play with goblin civs. So I guess it should be only a matter of expanding that feature.
So on the case of these deities/titans/ect being physical, would it be possible for one to migrate/petition to join a fort or integrate itself into a civ in some form phsyically (like becoming king/queen of the dwarves) or even start up their own civ with themselves at the head of it?That last part about supernatural beings as civ leaders is already in play with goblin civs. So I guess it should be only a matter of expanding that feature.
Is it possible that the villain update might bring a unique purpose to the venoms by allowing schemes to involve a poisoning of a target or the fort's food supply?I'd say probably not. More interactions with poison will come eventually for sure, but Toady already made so many plans for the next updates that he's probably just gonna go with the easiest way to implement assassinations, which would be without poison.
To what extent do worldgen/mission battles currently take gear into account? I understand that it's done at least in some basic sense, but does it just compare skill/quality/material or does it do some more complex calculations? For example, will a dwarf with a copper hammer have a good chance against an armoured opponent like he does in fort mode or will he lose because copper is a "bad" metal? And if I mod some overpowered 1-shot-kill weapon, will that be reflected in the battles or will it treat it like every other weapon?When the raid system was introduced, equipment and skills started being taken into account. So a goblin with a copper helmet won't fare well against a dwarf with a steel axe in a duel.
For next release, will do concept villain influence in dwarf relationships? Currently, in fortress mode is frequent that there were friendship or love between dwarfs, but it is difficult seeying grudge or hostility among themselves. I believe that is a good oportunitue for exploring or adding some negative traits to relationships.Grudges are reasonably frequent among the starting 7, at a guess somewhere about once every two embarks (and I've certainly seen two grudges among them, and have one in my current fortress).
This thinking carries me to another cuestion; are or will are relationships mechanics and villain mechanics tightly united? Or do they got separated treatment in DF?
Loyalty, love and respect will be used (added?) to determine how much influence an agent can have over someone. Urist isn't likely to murder his mother for the sake of a bookkeeper's position. But he might happily betray some drunk he has a grudge against for a shiny amulet.For next release, will do concept villain influence in dwarf relationships? Currently, in fortress mode is frequent that there were friendship or love between dwarfs, but it is difficult seeying grudge or hostility among themselves. I believe that is a good oportunitue for exploring or adding some negative traits to relationships.Grudges are reasonably frequent among the starting 7, at a guess somewhere about once every two embarks (and I've certainly seen two grudges among them, and have one in my current fortress).
This thinking carries me to another cuestion; are or will are relationships mechanics and villain mechanics tightly united? Or do they got separated treatment in DF?
Personal conflict would be a reason for a villainous plot, but I would expect most plots being based on goals other than personal relations (gaining power/wealth/...). Killing the cousin you don't like on the way to power would just be a fringe benefit (or a side project).
How's life?Pretty good.
Do raids take into account creature size/growth? Cave dragons are the size of foxes until they're 1000 year old, after which they become huge killing machines. Will my fox-sized cave dragons fight like full-grown cave dragons off map?Actually, they get gradually bigger and bigger, so a 999-year-old cave dragon will be of almost identical size to a 100-year-old cave dragon.
Having experienced quite a lot of rather exotic ones, and being a programmer myself, I'm really passionate about bugs in Dwarf Fortress whenever I get back into it. What is the best way that I can help you fix them? Is posting on Mantis kind of the limit of what is useful for you/possible for me, or are there tools I could use to narrow down causes?Toady doesn't know what to do with crash dumps, so the best is a Mantis report with as much relevant details as possible, and frequently a save that demonstrates it, in particular if the save is from just before the error is generated, so the error generation process can be followed (unfortunately, it's frequently the case that something went corrupt a lot earlier, so all he gets out of a save is "Yes, the data has been corrupted somehow").
Are you sure that's how that works? I've never seen anything stating that and I can't find anything on the wiki.Do raids take into account creature size/growth? Cave dragons are the size of foxes until they're 1000 year old, after which they become huge killing machines. Will my fox-sized cave dragons fight like full-grown cave dragons off map?Actually, they get gradually bigger and bigger, so a 999-year-old cave dragon will be of almost identical size to a 100-year-old cave dragon.
Are you sure that's how that works? I've never seen anything stating that and I can't find anything on the wiki.Do raids take into account creature size/growth? Cave dragons are the size of foxes until they're 1000 year old, after which they become huge killing machines. Will my fox-sized cave dragons fight like full-grown cave dragons off map?Actually, they get gradually bigger and bigger, so a 999-year-old cave dragon will be of almost identical size to a 100-year-old cave dragon.
Okay then, I've never heard that before. I'll edit my question.
Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?It's a pretty good idea. Since Armok is completely disregarded, and will stay like that forever.
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?Ha. It does sound like in recent interviews like they're sightly embarrassed at the title..
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?It's a pretty good idea. Since Armok is completely disregarded, and will stay like that forever.
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
Or fortresses...Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?It's a pretty good idea. Since Armok is completely disregarded, and will stay like that forever.
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
Could well just be [FORTRESS] since the dwarves aren't static either.
[[The game that makes you lose really well]]With the magic arc, the hostility of worlds will be settable. So not applicable.
Some questions relating to the Myth Update:Most of these would depend on the world, but most sound quite basic, so maybe.
1. In the prototype Myth Generator that was shown a while back, many of the innate magic systems involved the user drawing a Force that their race was linked to into themselves to use magic. Could an innate magic user use the Force as "fuel" for other magic outside of their innate capabilities?
2. Could another wizard seek to use objects/powers/whatever linked to the Force to manipulate it while it is "inside" of an innate wizard?
3. Would magic/soul eating critters be more attracted to innate magic users? More so when they are actually using their powers?
4. Kind of an extension of 1 and 2, could an innate wizard fuel other people's magic using a force?
5. Would a character channeling a force innately experience properties like weaknesses based on the force, outside of corruption? (like how were beasts have vulnerabilities while transformed)
6. Could a character try to find ways to draw power out of divine artifacts and whatnot, in a similar fashion to 1, 2, and 4?
7. Could supernatural devices be altered/corrupted?
8. If a race has some form of ancestor worship or something like that, and they are descended from a precursor race, could spirits of the precursor race show up alongside "normal" ancestors?
9. If people have innate magic from a supernatural ancestor, would those powers be self-contained, or would you have (at least in some situations) powers channeled from, and therefor reliant upon, the ancestor?
10. Would innate powers from an ancestor be based on what the ancestor can do, or would new powers be generated? (based on the mixing of the bloodlines or whatnot)
11. Could innate powers from an ancestor be extracted from blood or other bodily bits?
12. Would magical bloodlines be considered "blessed" or "cursed" based on the origin of the powers? (that guy is descended from a god we don't like, shun him!)
Are you ever afraid of disappointing people who see the Myth and Magic update as a "you can do literally anything!" game similar to what happened with games like Spore and No Man's Sky?The thing is, quite a bit of people outside of the fandom already think that DF is a "GAEM WHARE U CAN DO LITERLLAY EVRYTHING!1!!!11!!1!11!". The fandom does not see it as one. We know that Toady fulfills all of his content promises. We lose nothing.
The update has been planned for such a long time and spawned quite the sizeable amount of questions and speculations which probably built up pretty high expectations in people.
How do you guys not get absolutely overwhelmed with the amount of ideas and contents this game has/will have? I'm developing my own roguelike and I get really overwhelmed with my own ideas.Presumably the right mindset and a slow development pace to think everything through.
You guys are geniuses by the way, you basically created a framework for multiple digital realities' simulation disguised as a game - it's basically a RPG/sim/strategy/god game toolset - all in one. You could have history classes about any single world's stories.
Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?I kind of suspect the title was intentionally chosen to be overly dramatic.
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
Here he almost admit that (just after he explains where the idea of the game came to be):Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?I kind of suspect the title was intentionally chosen to be overly dramatic.
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
If Toady adds in complicated fortress politics. I hope what ever Toady does theres always a toggle for the player to not have to deal with elections and dwarves uprising. Im fine if all other civs have all that but I dont want to be forced to deal with it. So as long as it can be toggled I dont mind.1) I think it's best that you're clear which part of development you're talking about when you ask your question (in lime green, like this) Suggestions thread on government types is just a suggestion thread.
I was told by KittyTac it might not possible to toggle (on thread in suggestions about governments) and said I should ask here.
EDIT: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171643.0
LINK TO THREAD
If Toady adds in complicated fortress politics. I hope what ever Toady does theres always a toggle for the player to not have to deal with elections and dwarves uprising. Im fine if all other civs have all that but I dont want to be forced to deal with it. So as long as it can be toggled I dont mind.
I was told by KittyTac it might not possible to toggle (on thread in suggestions about governments) and said I should ask here.
EDIT: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171643.0
LINK TO THREAD
However, I'm fairly sure that if you mod out elections, there won't be elections elsewhere.If Toady adds in complicated fortress politics. I hope what ever Toady does theres always a toggle for the player to not have to deal with elections and dwarves uprising. Im fine if all other civs have all that but I dont want to be forced to deal with it. So as long as it can be toggled I dont mind.1) I think it's best that you're clear which part of development you're talking about when you ask your question (in lime green, like this) Suggestions thread on government types is just a suggestion thread.
I was told by KittyTac it might not possible to toggle (on thread in suggestions about governments) and said I should ask here.
EDIT: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171643.0
LINK TO THREAD
2) Most everything in Df is moddable and will continue to be so. So disabling certain behavior should be possible.
3) Starting Scenarios Arc (in which politics are going to be covered) isn't going to even start development for at least 5 years probably. Chances are the details haven't been thought about in detail yet.
Yeah, the general path of development is for your fortress to not act any differently from any other fortress. You'd only be able to turn off politics worldwide, the fortress won't ever exist in a vacuum. You'd end up with no migrants, no invaders, no visitors, no spies if that happened. Fine for big building projects of course (besides lack of migrants).However, I'm fairly sure that if you mod out elections, there won't be elections elsewhere.If Toady adds in complicated fortress politics. I hope what ever Toady does theres always a toggle for the player to not have to deal with elections and dwarves uprising. Im fine if all other civs have all that but I dont want to be forced to deal with it. So as long as it can be toggled I dont mind.1) I think it's best that you're clear which part of development you're talking about when you ask your question (in lime green, like this) Suggestions thread on government types is just a suggestion thread.
I was told by KittyTac it might not possible to toggle (on thread in suggestions about governments) and said I should ask here.
EDIT: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171643.0
LINK TO THREAD
2) Most everything in Df is moddable and will continue to be so. So disabling certain behavior should be possible.
3) Starting Scenarios Arc (in which politics are going to be covered) isn't going to even start development for at least 5 years probably. Chances are the details haven't been thought about in detail yet.
Will all villains have "evil" motivations, or will some of them mean well? If so, will they still use the same tacky names as normal villains?To build off this: If the good folks aren't going to use those kinds of names... CAN they? Please?
What is your opinion on balancing DF?
Waiting for Toady himself to say something.What is your opinion on balancing DF?
Despite being a simulation, I think we can guess that Toady wants the players to have challenges... at least if they wish so (because what fun would have fantasy worlds without the epic struggles of the peoples that inhabit them?). Also, in the recent devlog post about the new party creation system he explicitily talks about the possibility of setting "sensible limits" to avoid players abusing it so it seems pretty clear that he doesn't ignore game balance as it has been said elsewhere.
What is your opinion on balancing DF?You might wanna elaborate on that question, otherwise Toady is probably just gonna give a general answer like that he does care about balancing in some ways, but cares less about it in others.
What is your opinion on playing historic figures? Should there be a setting for that?Wasn't that covered last month?
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
You mention that only members of your starting party will be directly controllable in the upcoming adventurer additions (besides in turn based combat, presumably). What's stopping you from allowing direct control of histfigs who join your party later? Is it just the interactions you'd have to add ('Hi Dad!'), or is there something complex you need to do before we can take control of the destinies of 'real people'?
Toady:
I could be missing something obvious, but no, there's nothing stopping us except the existing relationships and positions, as you suggest. The position part is pretty big; taking over a civ-ruler would just be silly now, like they were possessed and became a wanderer. I mean, not that that's a bad thing for game-game fun-time, but it cuts against what we are trying to do enough that it hasn't been a priority. That will continue to change as we go. Certainly doing something like taking over an existing bandit gang is well within reach now, and might be pretty fun.
In particular, control over your later-added companions is more of a roleplaying thing; they aren't meant to be as loyal and we wanted to leave some room there. Once we quantify loyalty a bit (part of this release!), we might have them cross a threshold where you can induct them into party status, and then you'd be able to TAB over to them freely. You might not want to do this if you are trying to roleplay a villain and don't care to have your loyal subordinates as part of a party, or otherwise want to maintain the integrity of your original group.
(Under 'Trader' development goals:) Should depend on trade/tribute relationships as well as available professions and sprawl sites
I want a more in-depth reply about rulers and priests and such, rather than just a few sentences.What is your opinion on playing historic figures? Should there be a setting for that?Wasn't that covered last month?
--edit
Well, only in part, it seems. But I'm pretty sure there are Dftalks and other fotf replies on the subject too.Quote
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
You mention that only members of your starting party will be directly controllable in the upcoming adventurer additions (besides in turn based combat, presumably). What's stopping you from allowing direct control of histfigs who join your party later? Is it just the interactions you'd have to add ('Hi Dad!'), or is there something complex you need to do before we can take control of the destinies of 'real people'?
Toady:
I could be missing something obvious, but no, there's nothing stopping us except the existing relationships and positions, as you suggest. The position part is pretty big; taking over a civ-ruler would just be silly now, like they were possessed and became a wanderer. I mean, not that that's a bad thing for game-game fun-time, but it cuts against what we are trying to do enough that it hasn't been a priority. That will continue to change as we go. Certainly doing something like taking over an existing bandit gang is well within reach now, and might be pretty fun.
In particular, control over your later-added companions is more of a roleplaying thing; they aren't meant to be as loyal and we wanted to leave some room there. Once we quantify loyalty a bit (part of this release!), we might have them cross a threshold where you can induct them into party status, and then you'd be able to TAB over to them freely. You might not want to do this if you are trying to roleplay a villain and don't care to have your loyal subordinates as part of a party, or otherwise want to maintain the integrity of your original group.
Then you should probably update your question a little.I want a more in-depth reply about rulers and priests and such, rather than just a few sentences.What is your opinion on playing historic figures? Should there be a setting for that?Wasn't that covered last month?
--edit
Well, only in part, it seems. But I'm pretty sure there are Dftalks and other fotf replies on the subject too.Quote
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
You mention that only members of your starting party will be directly controllable in the upcoming adventurer additions (besides in turn based combat, presumably). What's stopping you from allowing direct control of histfigs who join your party later? Is it just the interactions you'd have to add ('Hi Dad!'), or is there something complex you need to do before we can take control of the destinies of 'real people'?
Toady:
I could be missing something obvious, but no, there's nothing stopping us except the existing relationships and positions, as you suggest. The position part is pretty big; taking over a civ-ruler would just be silly now, like they were possessed and became a wanderer. I mean, not that that's a bad thing for game-game fun-time, but it cuts against what we are trying to do enough that it hasn't been a priority. That will continue to change as we go. Certainly doing something like taking over an existing bandit gang is well within reach now, and might be pretty fun.
In particular, control over your later-added companions is more of a roleplaying thing; they aren't meant to be as loyal and we wanted to leave some room there. Once we quantify loyalty a bit (part of this release!), we might have them cross a threshold where you can induct them into party status, and then you'd be able to TAB over to them freely. You might not want to do this if you are trying to roleplay a villain and don't care to have your loyal subordinates as part of a party, or otherwise want to maintain the integrity of your original group.
1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.In one of the old myth gen presentations Toady shows that different races might only believe in parts of a creation myth or have their own, different ones.
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.The myth generator can definitely create random races with special magical abilities, but I don't know how much of "precursor" they can be. What do you mean specifically? A race that has built several cities before the other races even apear on the world or a race that is at part involved with the creation of another race? I think the second might be in the myth gen, but I dunno about the first.
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.
3. If said races are planned, just how powerful would they be able to be? As much as literal deities (building pocket planes, creating new deities from scratch, etc.)?
1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.The creation "myth" isn't actually a myth, it's the actual creation of the world. It's complex enough that each race/civ can focus on a different part of it (the bits relevant to their race and its creation, presumably).
Will we potentially see, in the myth and magic update, a race with magical capabilities summoning representants of an otherwordly race, and this otherwordly race possibly overthrowing their summoners/settling the world on their own?
1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.
There's a new interview podcast with Toady here:The moment they lose the connection and Toady just talks at length about the future and what mythgen means for the game was awesome.
https://kakebytes.podbean.com/e/episode-16-%E2%80%94-dwarf-fortress/
I have found a PDF containing potentially useful materials information, may be interesting.
http://www-mdp.eng.cam.ac.uk/web/library/enginfo/cueddatabooks/materials.pdf
Is it possible that, with the myth and magic updates' progress, we might end up seeing a powerful enough mage/sorcerer/warlock/summoner/god/angel/demon/thing casting a mass spell on a city or region? Bring in some sort of demonic mist over the place or straight up warp a whole castle/village into a pocket dimension/hell itself?Common element in fantasy stories. Will probably occur depending on the world.
Is it possible that, with the myth and magic updates' progress, we might end up seeing a powerful enough mage/sorcerer/warlock/summoner/god/angel/demon/thing casting a mass spell on a city or region? Bring in some sort of demonic mist over the place or straight up warp a whole castle/village into a pocket dimension/hell itself?
So with the with the implementation of sites outside of yours that are within your holdings and the ability to exile Dwarves there to remove them from your fortress and visa versa, what would be the chance of getting "work sites" and the chance of this being done before the big wait?Lime green text if that's a question.
By work site, I mean things like mines, logging camps, farms etc.
Starting on a site with no iron can be a real problem and require you to only outfit people with copper/bronze or painstakingly trade for iron and coal or cheese multiple sieges with traps until you can melt down Goblin weapons and armor until you have enough iron to equip the militia. When with these outside work sites, you can send Dwarves off to prospect for any type of material and they begin working a mine, sending a caravan back periodically and supplying the fortress with materials. This can extend to ores, wood, food, sand, clay and more and would help fortresses lacking in various things on the embark.
Plus with farms, you can have Dwarves run ranches etc without the issue of 30 cows damaging the FPS but you still get milk, meat and leather.
Then you have the fun of attacks on the work sites, a gold mine raided by bandits, or a Goblin faction you are at war with attacks your mine rather than your fortress, and of course, Elves upset with your logging camp send in the war grizzly's to stop the deforestation, all of which can kill and scatter your Dwarves, them returning with the tale of the attack.
Naturally this can expand adventure mode too, with them becoming randomly generated sites in history and can be formed and lost as the world progresses, and your lord could send you off to cause trouble/raze a nearby goblin mine. Plus these work sites can act as war justification/cause, "the war started over a disagreement over local resources" or some such matter.
I understand that there are plans that outside hillocks will be able to send food etc but I think having, smaller, more focused sites would also be a decent addition to fortress mode as well as the world building that benefits adventure mod.
Lime green text if that's a question.
Probable answer is "almost none" since it's not on the list of development points for pre-big wait development. Sites with specific purposes is part of the law/property update probably, so not for quite a while yet.
Might be worth a post in the suggestions forum though.
Is it ever planned for the DF map to be "continuous"? As in, will fluid that runs off the map and minecarts shot out of it always just disappear for good, or one day will we see these fluids and items actually go somewhere and affect wherever they land?To do that DF would have to keep more of the world loaded, which means trees etc. would grow outside of our embark, corpses and arrows, plus your minecarts, of course, litter it, etc. This would probably result in X * Y embarks require an (X+2)*(Y+2) memory footprint, with all the associated issues of junglification (with no cutting except the occasional fire, which we presumably could set off ourselves...). On top of that, we'd have issues at the world tile boundaries, although I wouldn't be surprised if the map rewrite takes world tile straddling issues into consideration.
I'm particularly curious about this for moving fortress parts. It'll be hard to make a weapon to surpass Metal Gear if we can't use rails to shoot things off site with it.
In celebration of the (first) anniversary of the last announced ban on the forum, I'd like to ask, is this an unreservedly a 'good thing'? ...which is my way of asking about that pachyderm over there without actually naming it...Generic "party" was replaced with drinking, singing, dancing, socializing, game playing (future), fistfighting and dying. It won't be coming back (and once the bugs in that list are fixed and it's all working properly it will seem pointless to even consider bringing it back).
Separately, are there any plans to reintroduce Dwarven Parties? I ask because stress balancing and addressing the difficulty of forming relationships seem to be on the table in the near future. (I always liked that mechanic. ;))
Generic "party" was replaced with drinking, singing, dancing, socializing, game playing (future), fistfighting and dying. It won't be coming back (and once the bugs in that list are fixed and it's all working properly it will seem pointless to even consider bringing it back).
Specific celebrations might be introduced later. But will most likely feature all of the above (plus parades and stuff from festivals for big occasions, presumably). I doubt we'll ever see dwarves just stand around "partying" again.
I think specific celebrations are planned (somewhere in amongst the 65% of the game which hasn't been implemented yet) . And dwarves not taking breaks to gather and socialize together is part of the ongoing stress problems which need fixing.Generic "party" was replaced with drinking, singing, dancing, socializing, game playing (future), fistfighting and dying. It won't be coming back (and once the bugs in that list are fixed and it's all working properly it will seem pointless to even consider bringing it back).
Specific celebrations might be introduced later. But will most likely feature all of the above (plus parades and stuff from festivals for big occasions, presumably). I doubt we'll ever see dwarves just stand around "partying" again.
I understand that there was a replacement, but it is quite different to having a large section of your fortress simultaneously deserting your orders and gathering together for a month or so en masse. Guess dwarfs don't celebrate birthdays or weddings, etc. And it feels quite bereft from a story point of view - unexpected parties are a long and honoured tradition. :P
I've been following that thread - albeit at some distance.What's happening in your taverns? Mine are full of dorfs dancing, singing, fighting, dying, wishing they could play proc gen gambling games.
Dwarfs now do individual socialising (that occasionally coincides). They are poorer at forming relationships.
Mass gatherings though, are something else altogether. We used to have them. We don't have them now. We might have them in the future of our fortresses. It seems reasonable to ask about them, now.
When we tab to a party member, will we be able to control them directly, or simply give them general orders? Will we be able to "switch" to them?When was the last time you hired an important leader to come adventuring with you? Is it even possible?
Assuming we are still concerned about the player abusing their ability to switch to historical characters by taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide, making the player "unlock" historical figures by gaining their loyalty as an earlier adventurer could be a way of balancing that.[/color]
a lot of htem have the DUTY_BOUND token which makes them unable to follow youYou could mod it out.
Yes, you could, but the option to mod something doesn't obligate Toady to add the mechanics to deal with it. Modded adventuring leaders would just be those who 'wander off' one day. Actual leaders (beyond 'bandit camp boss') need mechanics which don't yet exist, if not a whole new 'kingdom mode' to make them actually playable.a lot of htem have the DUTY_BOUND token which makes them unable to follow youYou could mod it out.
At any given time there are only a few dwarfs in there. Basically they go there to eat (note to self: stop putting of moving the drink pile :P) and might stick around for a day or two if someone is telling a story or something.I've been following that thread - albeit at some distance.What's happening in your taverns? Mine are full of dorfs dancing, singing, fighting, dying, wishing they could play proc gen gambling games.
Dwarfs now do individual socialising (that occasionally coincides). They are poorer at forming relationships.
Mass gatherings though, are something else altogether. We used to have them. We don't have them now. We might have them in the future of our fortresses. It seems reasonable to ask about them, now.
Will angels ever behave benevolently in the game world, or are they meant to remain antagonistic?Of course. Procgen magic and all. Vaults will be most likely removed and replaced with procgen magical dungeons.
Try reducing the labor requirements of your fortress or manually disabling a few dwarves' labors. They should hang around the tavern and socialize. As it is, dwarves no longer automatically take breaks. I'm thinking of seeing if there's a way to automatically disable/reenable labors with DFHack.At any given time there are only a few dwarfs in there. Basically they go there to eat (note to self: stop putting of moving the drink pile :P) and might stick around for a day or two if someone is telling a story or something.I've been following that thread - albeit at some distance.What's happening in your taverns? Mine are full of dorfs dancing, singing, fighting, dying, wishing they could play proc gen gambling games.
Dwarfs now do individual socialising (that occasionally coincides). They are poorer at forming relationships.
Mass gatherings though, are something else altogether. We used to have them. We don't have them now. We might have them in the future of our fortresses. It seems reasonable to ask about them, now.
When we tab to a party member, will we be able to control them directly, or simply give them general orders? Will we be able to "switch" to them?With tabbing you will be able to control party members directly, yes.
Assuming we are still concerned about the player abusing their ability to switch to historical characters by taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide, making the player "unlock" historical figures by gaining their loyalty as an earlier adventurer could be a way of balancing that.
If powerful historical figures are playable by default, will there be any method of preventing players from taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide, or is that just not a concern?
I could be missing something obvious, but no, there's nothing stopping us except the existing relationships and positions, as you suggest. The position part is pretty big; taking over a civ-ruler would just be silly now, like they were possessed and became a wanderer. I mean, not that that's a bad thing for game-game fun-time, but it cuts against what we are trying to do enough that it hasn't been a priority. That will continue to change as we go. Certainly doing something like taking over an existing bandit gang is well within reach now, and might be pretty fun.
In particular, control over your later-added companions is more of a roleplaying thing; they aren't meant to be as loyal and we wanted to leave some room there. Once we quantify loyalty a bit (part of this release!), we might have them cross a threshold where you can induct them into party status, and then you'd be able to TAB over to them freely. You might not want to do this if you are trying to roleplay a villain and don't care to have your loyal subordinates as part of a party, or otherwise want to maintain the integrity of your original group.
He meant civ leaders.When we tab to a party member, will we be able to control them directly, or simply give them general orders? Will we be able to "switch" to them?With tabbing you will be able to control party members directly, yes.
Assuming we are still concerned about the player abusing their ability to switch to historical characters by taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide, making the player "unlock" historical figures by gaining their loyalty as an earlier adventurer could be a way of balancing that.
If powerful historical figures are playable by default, will there be any method of preventing players from taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide, or is that just not a concern?
There was an answer about this stuff already in last month's Q&A:I could be missing something obvious, but no, there's nothing stopping us except the existing relationships and positions, as you suggest. The position part is pretty big; taking over a civ-ruler would just be silly now, like they were possessed and became a wanderer. I mean, not that that's a bad thing for game-game fun-time, but it cuts against what we are trying to do enough that it hasn't been a priority. That will continue to change as we go. Certainly doing something like taking over an existing bandit gang is well within reach now, and might be pretty fun.
In particular, control over your later-added companions is more of a roleplaying thing; they aren't meant to be as loyal and we wanted to leave some room there. Once we quantify loyalty a bit (part of this release!), we might have them cross a threshold where you can induct them into party status, and then you'd be able to TAB over to them freely. You might not want to do this if you are trying to roleplay a villain and don't care to have your loyal subordinates as part of a party, or otherwise want to maintain the integrity of your original group.
If dwarf fortress has taught me anything, it is that by studiously lighting yourself on fire you can become immune to any ailment.
Have you looked into getting a proper AC? If you only use it during the smoke season, it shouldn't cost that much to run and should make life much more bearable.
extort Toady for hisvaluablesgiant desert scorpions.
How much do you think you'll address stability issues before the big wait?If you're talking about crashes, make sure they actually happen in vanilla df before you report them (don't forget that starter packs are almost always not vanilla df). I find the game to be completely stable right now in that sense.
What are your thoughts about how much information should be given to the player about what's going on inside the dwarves heads? I can guess why numeric values aren't given, but right now there are cases where you have a very stressed dwarf with no apparent big issues in their thoughts and identifying the stress source/s involves a lot of guessing based on how the system works right now. On the other hand, all this could be intended if the player shouldn't be able to know everything about their dwarves.The current system isn't working or complete. It's not meant to be micromanagement hell once it's done.
The current system isn't working or complete. It's not meant to be micromanagement hell once it's done.
What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.
Fine. You know my opinion of you.What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government? Because one user, GoblinCookie is concerned (read: causing a moral panic) about the depiction of oppressive governments.
Can you edit that to remove personal details, this is not a place to engage in personal attacks.
What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?
Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!
What do you think about adding oppressive systems of government?Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.
Dwarves already are authoritarian by principle, many such crimes in the dwarven kingdom are delivered upon much more severe punished but be more level headed when considering dwarves can live out 100 year sentences & the time period, comparative with real life contemporary law & justice its harsh & and the own player input with the judiciary screen put the player in charge of delivering absolute justice.
True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair. Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like. KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
It might not always stay that way. Hence my question.True, but however harsh the system is it is never-the-less entirely just and fair. Nobody is ever is forced to commit crimes out of desperation due to poverty and the like. KittyTac's question does fall down generally on the subjectivity of oppression however.-Noble mandates, say, earrings.
-Player forgets or refuses to order construction of earrings.
-Random hauler who immigrated with novice stonecrafter gets thrown in jail for failing to make earrings that were never ordered in a workshop that hasn't been built.
Entirely just and fair! But it's true that economic oppression is largely nonexistent, with all production currently owned by the state and distributed freely to all residents.
Do you ask specifically about slavery or something else? As FantasticDorf said, the current dwarf government imprisons and beats people who don't submit to the demands of nobles and (until economy is finally back) only pays people in the form of food and some random crafts that are lying around, which I guess can basically be described as slavery.
Maybe with the new villain system we will be able to randomly accuse people of being criminals because of the spy stuff.
Dwarves have very little freedom. I would not consider that utopia. "Dictator which can be benevolent" isn't utopia-by-default with the possibility of failure - that's a slanted perspective, and you could just as easily call it dystopia-by-default.
Dwarves have very little freedom. I would not consider that utopia. "Dictator which can be benevolent" isn't utopia-by-default with the possibility of failure - that's a slanted perspective, and you could just as easily call it dystopia-by-default.
Not a thread for "how this/that should work in real life" either, so I think me and a lot of other people would appreciate if you could keep your personal opinions on that out of this thread before it gets derailed due to pointless discussions where noone wins yet again, GC.
1- Can we expect from agents/inflitrators, at any point of the developement, to act as if they had knowledge of the consequences of their actions? Or asked in another way: what tools will these characters have to identify appropriate ways of acting? Will we see things like some traitor opening our gates to an invading army, trying to pull whatever lever that should not be touched or realeasing dangereous creatures from cages? What about all at the same time (like, aiming to create a diversion)?
2- Leaving aside practical examples, what limits do you expect these tools actually will have for this next release?
So, given it seems you can encounter non-questors taking the identity of criminal, and it seems they might not always actually have a criminal record, what even is the justification for them being labelled criminals?
I have encountered NPCs who don't APPEAR to be artifact hunters, but have nonetheless assumed an identity as a self-labelled criminal, nor do they end up with an association with local criminal gangs.
With future world generation changes making it more fantastic - less Earthlike - will things such as randomized biomes be possible? e.g. could you have a more erratic world that has fiery swamps -associated with Fire, Muck, and Peace- full of unicorns and satyrs, or a forest -associated with Healing, Darkness, and Defomority- that periodically has healing rain in addition to ogres and procgenned monsters?
So on the case of these deities/titans/ect being physical, would it be possible for one to migrate/petition to join a fort or integrate itself into a civ in some form phsyically (like becoming king/queen of the dwarves) or even start up their own civ with themselves at the head of it?
Is it possible that the villain update might bring a unique purpose to the venoms by allowing schemes to involve a poisoning of a target or the fort's food supply?
To what extent do worldgen/mission battles currently take gear into account? I understand that it's done at least in some basic sense, but does it just compare skill/quality/material or does it do some more complex calculations? For example, will a dwarf with a copper hammer have a good chance against an armoured opponent like he does in fort mode or will he lose because copper is a "bad" metal? And if I mod some overpowered 1-shot-kill weapon, will that be reflected in the battles or will it treat it like every other weapon?
For next release, will do concept villain influence in dwarf relationships? Currently, in fortress mode is frequent that there were friendship or love between dwarfs, but it is difficult seeying grudge or hostility among themselves. I believe that is a good oportunitue for exploring or adding some negative traits to relationships.
This thinking carries me to another cuestion; are or will are relationships mechanics and villain mechanics tightly united? Or do they got separated treatment in DF?
How's life?
Do raids take into account creature size/growth? Cave dragons are hatched the size of foxes and grow until they're 1000 year old, when they are huge killing machines. Will my small, young cave dragons fight like full-grown cave dragons off map?
Having experienced quite a lot of rather exotic ones, and being a programmer myself, I'm really passionate about bugs in Dwarf Fortress whenever I get back into it. What is the best way that I can help you fix them? Is posting on Mantis kind of the limit of what is useful for you/possible for me, or are there tools I could use to narrow down causes?
Have you ever considered chopping the title down to just "Dwarf Fortress"?
Not that I would recommend it or think it's a good idea, I'm just curious if you ever actually had thought about it, and what those thoughts were.
1. In the prototype Myth Generator that was shown a while back, many of the innate magic systems involved the user drawing a Force that their race was linked to into themselves to use magic. Could an innate magic user use the Force as "fuel" for other magic outside of their innate capabilities?
2. Could another wizard seek to use objects/powers/whatever linked to the Force to manipulate it while it is "inside" of an innate wizard?
3. Would magic/soul eating critters be more attracted to innate magic users? More so when they are actually using their powers?
4. Kind of an extension of 1 and 2, could an innate wizard fuel other people's magic using a force?
5. Would a character channeling a force innately experience properties like weaknesses based on the force, outside of corruption? (like how were beasts have vulnerabilities while transformed)
6. Could a character try to find ways to draw power out of divine artifacts and whatnot, in a similar fashion to 1, 2, and 4?
7. Could supernatural devices be altered/corrupted?
8. If a race has some form of ancestor worship or something like that, and they are descended from a precursor race, could spirits of the precursor race show up alongside "normal" ancestors?
9. If people have innate magic from a supernatural ancestor, would those powers be self-contained, or would you have (at least in some situations) powers channeled from, and therefor reliant upon, the ancestor?
10. Would innate powers from an ancestor be based on what the ancestor can do, or would new powers be generated? (based on the mixing of the bloodlines or whatnot)
11. Could innate powers from an ancestor be extracted from blood or other bodily bits?
12. Would magical bloodlines be considered "blessed" or "cursed" based on the origin of the powers? (that guy is descended from a god we don't like, shun him!)
Edit:
b1. Will "sleeping" creatures be able to act during myth gen without/before waking up. Like their sleeping consciousness can do stuff outside the body, possibly with or without them realizing it?
b2. In the myth gen, the concept of souls as a microcosm was unveiled. That made me wonder, could the "souls" of some supernatural creatures (demons, spirits, ect.) function as "mini" planes of existence? I understand it would be a while before traveling to other planes isn't in the near future, but could there still be situations where a creature can store things like other souls, or even physical objects within themselves?
b3. Related to b2, could some creatures/races be created as an embodiment/manifestation of a given plane of existence?
Are you ever afraid of disappointing people who see the Myth and Magic update as a "you can do literally anything!" game similar to what happened with games like Spore and No Man's Sky?
The update has been planned for such a long time and spawned quite the sizeable amount of questions and speculations which probably built up pretty high expectations in people.
Would you say you mainly develop DF for yourself or for the players or is it an even split?
How do you guys not get absolutely overwhelmed with the amount of ideas and contents this game has/will have? I'm developing my own roguelike and I get really overwhelmed with my own ideas.
Now that Fortress Mode is much more connected to the rest of the world, are you planning to have dwarves leave player fortresses if conditions get too bad/it no longer has a good profit/population ratio? Many real-word cities died out not because they were attacked, but because trade routes dried up and people simply left.
Of course, there would have to be ways for players to make sure certain dwarves were the least likely to leave -- perhaps dwarves that were very happy or made lots of money for the fortress would be much more likely to stay.
I understand that reconciling fort mode and adventure mode having different time scales is a current ongoing project that is being considered tentatively. However, I just noticed that there might be an issue with it, particularly concerning the Economy update on the menu some few years for now. Do you happen to have any ideas on how to short term or long term approach an issue that will likely happen: that adventure mode food consumption would be much more rapid than dwarf/legend mode?
Where will we see these (tacky) villainous names show up? I'm pretty sure we will see them if we start unraveling plots, but will we also see them when a death squad comes to put an end to our interference? Will we hear of their alias when told of troubles ("Bloodmist the Evil sends his goons to harass us, but none know where he hails from" type of conversation)?
A question that came to mind regarding the mounts - do you think you'll implement a token that'd make it so that a creature cannot be mounted by other creatures past a certain size?
You mentioned a dwarven mayor "unusually obsessed with intrigue." Does this arise from the current personality traits and values, or a new factor? Will the most intrigue-obsessed individuals carry out plans even when they don't care about the objective, just for the sake of plotting and scheming?
Villains can potentially infiltrate your fort by recruiting citizens, and even officials, but will masterminds also be able to arise within the fort on their own initiative? Could a sneaky, ambitious dwarf establish and build a world-spanning conspiracy right under the player's nose, or will the network always start off-site (unless created by the player, of course)?
Quote from: Egan_BWWill all villains have "evil" motivations, or will some of them mean well? If so, will they still use the same tacky names as normal villains?Quote from: DescanTo build off this: If the good folks aren't going to use those kinds of names... CAN they? Please?
In the army arc, if an off-map army is sent to defend against an invader and loses, will they retreat to your fortress, any nearby settlement, or just sort of disappear?
What is your opinion on balancing DF?
Quote from: KittyTacWhat is your opinion on playing (and starting as) important historical figures such as rulers and priests? Should there be a setting for that? Will the setting default to OFF?Quote from: IndigoFenixWhen we tab to a party member, will we be able to control them directly, or simply give them general orders? Will we be able to "switch" to them?
Assuming we are still concerned about the player abusing their ability to switch to historical characters by taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide or intentionally making bad decisions, making the player "unlock" historical figures by gaining their loyalty or admiration as an earlier adventurer could be a way of balancing that, by making sure the player has some "investment" in the story of that group before allowing them to possess its leaders.
If powerful historical figures are playable by default, will there be any method of preventing players from taking control of an enemy leader and committing suicide or intentionally making bad decisions, or is that just not a concern?
<concerning dev goal: Site resources should depend on trade/tribute relationships as well as available professions and sprawl sites>
Is this currently realised in the applicable loot tables for active historical/ahistorical crafts-people on site, or is the production of tribute & resources simulated by site type or other behind the scenes mechanics?
What are the current 8 short and long-term memory categories?
1. If a creature dies on an afterlife plane what are the possibilities for what can happen to them?
2. Can you give us some examples of how a player adventurer would go about rooting out or joining an evil plot?
3. If player adventurers will be able to lead armies will they be able to gather their civilization's army at any time or only when they are at war with another group?
4. Will player adventurers ever be given quests by their lords/ladies to be part of an army led by someone else and if so how will traveling as part of an army work?
Will this cause changes in Adventure-mode? I know the current push is for Fortress mode but friendships and such would be a big addition in ADV mode.
I mean being friends with say a kings consort could get you into better standing. Heck with friendships alone it might be easyer to find people and shops you are looking for.
1. How will adapting the creation myth to different cultures work? It would be odd if goblins, elves and humans all had the exact same creation myth.
2. Will the myth generator be able to generate extremely advanced/magically potent 'precursor' races (I know, it's a sci-fi term, but I feel like it fits here too) and how would they be balanced? While it would be cool to have a race of basically omnipotent reality-bending lizards in the myth story, if they persisted in 'recorded history' (the playable time) in significant numbers it would probably be obscenely unbalanced and they'd be able to curbstomp everyone else.
3. If said races are planned, just how powerful would they be able to be? As much as literal deities (building pocket planes, creating new deities from scratch, etc.)?
4. I saw that in the current version of the myth generator, one can have mortals rise up in rebellion against deities, though they seem to always lose. Will it be possible to have a more generalized war system for the myth generator, enabling war in heaven style conflicts between deities, groups of deities, precursors, etc. where any of the combatants can get eliminated, transformed, etc.?
(Regarding 08/18 devlog) Will the role of families also be expanded both in wg and fortress mode? Family ties are stronger than friendship and are underdeveloped in the game.
1.You said in devlog that the succesful plotting, alongside beliefs and position of target, would be determined by "intrigue skill". Is it going to be seperate skill like mining or dodging, or it will be mix of social skills like liar or diplomat?
2. You mentioned that being a criminal mastermind would be a thing soon. If option of playing inquisitor/detective in adventure mode will be supported as well? Not necessarily in full possible spectrum, but being able to discover plots via just talking with people and having right set of skills/clues, or occasional quest to thwart some villain agenda would be a thing that at least I look forward.
3. In same spirit, if there would be fortress guests which will petion to stay in your fort to help you in discovering and preventing from villainous plots? Just like monster slayers come to help you hunt down critter in caverns.
4. Will be able to choose not only what equipment to take at the start of adventure, but what quality it would be? For instance, paying more points to have *iron longsword* instead of normal one?
Will historical figures such as monarchs weigh their foriegn policy with other civilizations based on friendship with other civilisation members/leaders they might bond/break links with.
Now that memories and thoughts can change personalities, will eating a particularly good/bad meal ever change food preferences?
Will we potentially see, in the myth and magic update, a race with magical capabilities summoning representants of an otherwordly race, and this otherwordly race possibly overthrowing their summoners/settling the world on their own?
1. Will personality now influence the descisions a leader might make? For example, a paitient and vengeful person might be more likely to start a plot?
2. Can we expect diplomatic faux pas or other things rising from the personalities of leaders and their relationships with each other?
3. With villainy being fleshed out, can we expect someone gaining enough power to start a civil war, or create their own ‘empire’?
4. Would dreams/goals influence plots? Say, if there’s a person who dreams to rule the world, they may hatch a plot to hold the world in their iron grip?
1. What sort of laws/religious stuff do you think needs to be added specifically for the villain update?
2. Will criminal organizations inside the same town or city fight each other?
3. Will this change in the number of criminal organizations per town or city open up more kinds of missions for player adventurer's in those groups?
4. In the villain update how much will laws vary between civilizations and will there be a way for the player adventurers to find out what those laws are?
Is it possible that, with the myth and magic updates' progress, we might end up seeing a powerful enough mage/sorcerer/warlock/summoner/god/angel/demon/thing casting a mass spell on a city or region? Bring in some sort of demonic mist over the place or straight up warp a whole castle/village into a pocket dimension/hell itself?
So with the with the implementation of sites outside of yours that are within your holdings and the ability to exile Dwarves there to remove them from your fortress and visa versa, what would be the chance of getting "work sites" and the chance of this being done before the big wait?
By work site, I mean things like mines, logging camps, farms etc.
Starting on a site with no iron can be a real problem and require you to only outfit people with copper/bronze or painstakingly trade for iron and coal or cheese multiple sieges with traps until you can melt down Goblin weapons and armor until you have enough iron to equip the militia. When with these outside work sites, you can send Dwarves off to prospect for any type of material and they begin working a mine, sending a caravan back periodically and supplying the fortress with materials. This can extend to ores, wood, food, sand, clay and more and would help fortresses lacking in various things on the embark.
Plus with farms, you can have Dwarves run ranches etc without the issue of 30 cows damaging the FPS but you still get milk, meat and leather.
Then you have the fun of attacks on the work sites, a gold mine raided by bandits, or a Goblin faction you are at war with attacks your mine rather than your fortress, and of course, Elves upset with your logging camp send in the war grizzly's to stop the deforestation, all of which can kill and scatter your Dwarves, them returning with the tale of the attack.
Naturally this can expand adventure mode too, with them becoming randomly generated sites in history and can be formed and lost as the world progresses, and your lord could send you off to cause trouble/raze a nearby goblin mine. Plus these work sites can act as war justification/cause, "the war started over a disagreement over local resources" or some such matter.
I understand that there are plans that outside hillocks will be able to send food etc but I think having, smaller, more focused sites would also be a decent addition to fortress mode as well as the world building that benefits adventure mod.
Is it ever planned for the DF map to be "continuous"? As in, will fluid that runs off the map and minecarts shot out of it always just disappear for good, or one day will we see these fluids and items actually go somewhere and affect wherever they land?
I'm particularly curious about this for moving fortress parts. It'll be hard to make a weapon to surpass Metal Gear if we can't use rails to shoot things off site with it.
In celebration of the (first) anniversary of the last announced ban on the forum, I'd like to ask, is this an unreservedly a 'good thing'? ...which is my way of asking about that pachyderm over there without actually naming it...
Separately, are there any plans to reintroduce Dwarven Parties? I ask because stress balancing and addressing the difficulty of forming relationships seem to be on the table in the near future.
Will angels ever behave benevolently in the game world, or are they meant to remain antagonistic?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerDo you think it would effect the schedule /donations if you just took an extended holiday every August?
I know the forums would cope.Quote from: iceball3Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!
How much do you think you'll address stability issues before the big wait?
Right now the thoughts and preferences screen is the main tool the player has to control and manage happiness in the fort. Can we expect for this to change once proper site administrations are implemented and dwarves (individually or collectively and besides nobles) can make requests or demands?
What do you think about adding (and playing as) oppressive systems of government?
<snip>Quote from: iceball3Do you think you can budget for a dust mask or respirator of some kind? It sounds like the air has been rough on you!It would probably just be a matter of timing it. Sometimes July is bad, sometimes August is bad, and it can be tricky to figure out exactly which week or month will be terrible. It certainly wouldn't have hurt to skip town for a week or two in here, especially if I'd explained what was up in advance, and it's better than having to explain the disaster afterward, anyway. In my defense, I had got a window fan for this year, and it was helping the night-time sleep temperature -- I was in good spirits! Then the smoke came, and the window fan couldn't be used. So next year, an air filter maybe? One of the military-grade masks people recommend? Then we'll see what conspires against that. Summer is actively malevolent.
<snip>
Additionally, if it's not possible to play some vague analog of Master of Magic in DF (at some world slider setting), we aren't doing our job.That is very much nice to hear because I LOVE Master of Magic.
What are you planning on doing from the devlog after the villain arc?There's only really Armies and Improved Sieges left from pre-mythgen plans (adventurer stuff will probably be mixed in like this time). I imagine we'll know by the time next month's fotf comes around.
What are you planning on doing from the devlog after the villain arc?There's only really Armies and Improved Sieges left from pre-mythgen plans (adventurer stuff will probably be mixed in like this time). I imagine we'll know by the time next month's fotf comes around.
- It's called the BIG wait for a reason. A single year for the initial development phase of an arc is on the short side for a normal arc. Two years would be quite reasonable, but crossing the 3 year mark probably hurts, so I'd expect feature postponing due to time to start at about the 2½ year mark (things running into trouble and expected to take a fair bit more time than expected can probably be postponed earlier).
Of course, Toady knows his plans and processes better than anyone else, so he may provide a correct overview in his answers at the end of the month.
This kinda reminds me of a much older interview where Toady estimated the magic update would be out by...2018. I'd have to find it again, though.I Want My Magic Update (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IWantMyJetPack).
Are there any ways planned for the counter-use of magic or defence against it? With the description of extremely powerful spells, it seems probable that a mature fort may piss off the wrong sorcerers and get wiped off the face of the earth with a catastrophically powerful hex.Anti-magic is a common fantasy element, so probably yes, depending on the world.
Are there any ways planned for the counter-use of magic or defence against it? With the description of extremely powerful spells, it seems probable that a mature fort may piss off the wrong sorcerers and get wiped off the face of the earth with a catastrophically powerful hex.
Quote from: Tinnucorch1- Can we expect from agents/inflitrators, at any point of the developement, to act as if they had knowledge of the consequences of their actions? Or asked in another way: what tools will these characters have to identify appropriate ways of acting? Will we see things like some traitor opening our gates to an invading army, trying to pull whatever lever that should not be touched or realeasing dangereous creatures from cages? What about all at the same time (like, aiming to create a diversion)?
2- Leaving aside practical examples, what limits do you expect these tools actually will have for this next release?
Keeping in mind what you said elsewhere about not wanting to give too much away:
Given that vampires and grudge-holders can currently file false witness reports, and vampires hide their supernatural physical attributes when they aren't in mortal danger, I suspect other such are on the table.
There are lots of limits on what we can do; I'm not quite sure what you mean. The main limits for this sort of thing are time and the cpu, but beyond that, spatial analysis and pattern analysis can be tricky. Take your lever example: thinking about animal release is easy, identifying an animal release trap that would just kill the lever puller (which has been set up by the clever player) is harder -- for this specific example, which we'd naturally been considering (given gremlins), we had thought about having the treacherous dwarf prioritize levers which had been pulled previously. That's knowledge which it would be fair for them to have, would still possibly gum up the works, and also be less risky for them. The downside there would be it cutting out many levers we'd want pulled. For invasion gates, the spatial analysis can be tricky, but a simple component test on a soldier vs. the other side of the lever's door would be sufficient for many cases. It just has to work sometimes for it to be good story fodder; it would be additionally good if the failed cases aren't overplayed with e.g. dramatic announcements. We'll be feeling it out as we go.
Do you think it would be possible to simply adventurer mode into a set of rules that could be used as a pen-and-paper roleplaying game? On a purely mechanical level, for things like movement, combat, generic skill checks and so on.Uh, I think you're missing some words?
If so, do you think it would be possible to data from generated worlds to use as source material for the game? For example, maps, a bestiary, and so on.
Will the personality have a more important role in the game?Lime green for questions so Toady Eyes can spot it.
Playing in adventure mode i have noticed vampires are a bit currently dull. Vampires in mythology have always been powerful beings with many powers and abilities so Will Vampires get some new abilities like hypnosis, thrall creation, and polymorphism? And if so Would Vampire villians have different plot options from regular villians if they did have typical vampire powers?Magic will be procedurally generated. So probably yes.
Playing in adventure mode i have noticed vampires are a bit currently dull. Vampires in mythology have always been powerful beings with many powers and abilities so Will Vampires get some new abilities like hypnosis, thrall creation, and polymorphism? And if so Would Vampire villians have different plot options from regular villians if they did have typical vampire powers?Magic will be procedurally generated. So probably yes.
1. Will you be able to marry someone in adventure mode?
1. Will you be able to marry someone in adventure mode?
2. Will you be able to set links with your adventure party members (childhood friend/war buddy/wife/brother/etc.
Quote from: GenericUserWith the addition of parties, will we be able to start as a performance troupe from setup or will we have to do so after the adventure starts?
It would be really cool to have a sort of traveling band spreading dwarves music across the world.Quote from: DGWhen creating multiple characters for Adventure mode will they have initial relationships between themselves similar to a Fortress mode starting 7? If so, will it be random, fixed, or customizable*?Quote from: Slozgo LuzmaWill we be able to define interpersonal relationships between adventurers? For instance can our party consist of sibling, parent and child, spouses, or distant cousins? By extension will adventurers have to belong to the same entity?
Both of these are in the possible-for-this-release notes (starting entity, starting relationship grid), but I don't know if the time will be there. Definitely things we are looking forward to doing as we make party starts more and more interesting.
Also Will we every see adventure mode fast travel?What do you mean by this? There already is the [T]ravel screen. See: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Adventurer_mode#Fast_travel
Also Will we every see adventure mode fast travel?What do you mean by this? There already is the [T]ravel screen. See: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Adventurer_mode#Fast_travel
When I listen to DF talk and watch the videos where you talk about the upcoming mythology update, it's hard not to notice all the references to randomly generated creatures. I quite enjoy modding creatures in Dwarf Fortress, but I can't edit or change any of the randomly generated creatures the game creates as it is and I'm worried that this is going to get worse and worse as development progresses. Will we be able to edit the tags of randomly generated creatures? Change what tags are associated to which sphere, for example? This question could be generalized to randomly generated anything, but I'm personally primarily interested in the creatures.Short answer - Yes.
Apologies: this has likely been answered somewhere, but I couldn't find an easy answer with some searching.
When I listen to DF talk and watch the videos where you talk about the upcoming mythology update, it's hard not to notice all the references to randomly generated creatures. I quite enjoy modding creatures in Dwarf Fortress, but I can't edit or change any of the randomly generated creatures the game creates as it is and I'm worried that this is going to get worse and worse as development progresses. Will we be able to edit the tags of randomly generated creatures? Change what tags are associated to which sphere, for example? This question could be generalized to randomly generated anything, but I'm personally primarily interested in the creatures.Short answer - Yes.
Apologies: this has likely been answered somewhere, but I couldn't find an easy answer with some searching.
If you search the beginning of each month for Toady's replies in this thread you'll see he's answered this a couple of times.
(Yes, I know that's annoying, but Toady would rather have the dev notes as the only specific set details on the direction he's going.)
Will we every see adventure mode fast travel?The Crime and Punishment arc will support being captured and taken to a site, with the capability of skipping the boring parts of the journey. The Economy arc will involve boats, which you could probably buy passage on. He's mentioned being hired as a guard to protect merchant caravans, too.
Mythgen will generate creatures, but modders want the ability to influence this generation (restrict random critters to just varieties of goats, for example keeping everything else "vanilla". Or say, ensuring that only water sphere based critters can develop inate teleportation abilities - because mod lore).
Toady agrees that this and expanding what can be modded overall is a priority.
And he's also producing a fixed world editor for modders with very specific worlds in mind.
Mythgen will generate creatures, but modders want the ability to influence this generation (restrict random critters to just varieties of goats, for example keeping everything else "vanilla". Or say, ensuring that only water sphere based critters can develop inate teleportation abilities - because mod lore).
Toady agrees that this and expanding what can be modded overall is a priority.
And he's also producing a fixed world editor for modders with very specific worlds in mind.
I think it was meant to be and (in-game) editor able to edit the myth (and the generated creatures, races, etc.) after the myth generation. Something like you generate the myth and then you just find that there is a race with very silly powers (or any other little detail you could dislike for that matter), and you just delete/change that without generating a whole new myth.
I'm not understandig if the world editor will be able to do that or if it's just an entirely different feature (aimed only at creating tailored worlds from scratch) and editing little details of an already generated myth will only be achievable (if at all) by editing the files.
So, word says that you personally look up atleast the OP of every suggestion thread
What are the types of suggestions threads that are the most useful/interesting to you toady? Those that explain in detail a certain subject and how could it be implemented in DF? Lists of features that use unexpected mechanics and original ideas?
Will you at some point change the game so animals other than wolves be domesticated over the worlds history? Such as in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dwjS_eI-lQCan you at least give us a hint of what you mean without having to watch a video? Cats are decended from wolves?
And, even worse suggestiony: Is the rampant hist fig incest addressed in this process?[/color]
I wish there were an easy way to get narration like the stories Toady tells of his worlds. I am sure that I could parse it out, but it never seems to click.What are you using to browse your Legends? Just the in-game Legends Mode?
Many things I'd like to see for relationships!Suggestions forum.
* Societal rules relating to multiple partners: Polyamory, Polygamy, Polyandry, Polygyny; with each civilization having their preferences in such concepts
* Societal rules relating to who raises the children: Both? Male parent? Female parent? Specialized "child raiser" professional? The whole village?
* Societal rules about whether it's acceptable to have children out of wedlock
* Whether marriage even exists formally or if people just happen to pair up (or group up) to live together. Or maybe even if they are perpetually solitary, which might mesh well with the idea of only one parent raising children.
* Societal rules about whether it's acceptable to divorce, remarry, have relations with other people when you have a spouse among other relationship issues.
I heard that there's some resistance to the idea, but adding sex as an action actors can do (just a simple "character x and character y mate/have sex") would make all of these very interesting and dynamic, especially with gossips, secrets, bragging, etc.
Do Dorfs and other sentients have a concept of privacy?
This is in response to the latest devlog, it always seemed to me that discussion/reaction to devlogs was here*snip*Suggestions forum.
Yes. It can be.This is in response to the latest devlog, it always seemed to me that discussion/reaction to devlogs was here*snip*Suggestions forum.
1. In one of the next two mini arches- adventuring parties and dynamic villains will our adventurers be able to learn about the relationships and histories of the people we meet? Currently asking about family only tells us about official relationships not stuff like love interests or affairs.1: Probably. In order to exploit weaknesses/connections you typically have to know about them. I'd expect it to be a little harder than: "Hello gullible target! Please tell me about all your dirty secret so I can exploit them!". Alternative identities are definitely secret, but that doesn't mean it would be impossible to find out for a villain to exploit or law enforcement to catch a villain.
2. In the myth and magic update will possible magic include powers to learn about the histories of others without evening having to talk to them?
3. Further in the vain of personel histories would a possible kind of corruption in magical worlds include corruptions that replace one's memories of their life history with false ones? Like they don't remember their past correctly.
4. Will clothing and garments ever include pockets that can act as small containers we can use in adventure mode for small things like coins?
1. Will we be able to do wedding ceremonies in fort mode maybe in designated church or temple or any meeting place?1. That's probably one if the things temples are going to be used for once they're fleshed out. However, that's probably too far away from the relations net currently worked on to appear in this development arc.
2. Will we encounter weddings in adventure mode past worldgen?
Will we ever get any tools or features to help deal with aquifers? Or is this meant to be an ever-present obstacle for the sake of realism?Screwpumps, cave-ins, obsidianization, smoothing, and and wall building is present already, as is the option to embark where none are present, as well as to remove them altogether.
Will there ever be volume restrictions? Physical encumbrance from anything besides armor/pure weight? Will "strapped to your body" items require string, sinew, or leather straps at some point in order to actually strap them on? Will adventurer item hauling (which sort of buggily exists) ever be more of a dragging across the ground thing, or a shoving to the next tile thing?I hope not
Oh jeez, that's a lot for Toady to answer... the magic-related stuff is pretty common in fantasy stories, so it could randomly turn up.4 happens already. So that's one less to think about.
2. Will villains have more occult motives (i.e. subverting/changing a religion, finding knowledge/enlightenment, etc.) or will it be more focused in material, concrete stuff for now?You should make it clear what sort of time frame you're talking about. Most things you can think of are planned eventually.
All of those options require an excessive amount of work, planning, and/or cheating. I know some like the challenge but given that aquifers tend to dominate most of the landscape it would be better if there was just an easier way to work with them. Maybe when the magic system gets implemented we can summon lava or something, I guess.
When will improvements to the speech engine be made?As in?
When will improvements to the speech engine be made?As in?
What kind of improvements? It's fine as it is.When will improvements to the speech engine be made?As in?
In General
What kind of turn based Adventure mechanics are we going to see in the next release? I know we can use multi-move for most of it, but from what I've seen there are moves we can make, like actually moving to another tile, that can set off a turn. Will we get a way to hold off a turn until every member of our party has set their actions?Lime green is the convention.
I plan on forming a D&D style party of my friends after I get comfortable with making parties in Adventure mode later on.
It is not only about speech, but language system in general. I remember that Toady has had interest in linguistics and there are lots of future goals that are language related. (different languages having actual impact; places named after actual features; new words generated in-game; words having enough metadata to be used in prophecies; etc.)When will improvements to the speech engine be made?As in?
In General
Will it ever be possible to control non-civilized entities?Probably? Sounds interesting.
It's the idea to eventually be able to play as dragons and such. I'm not sure if megabeasts count as "civilized" by virtue of being intelligent and sometimes extracting tribute from civilized creatures. If you mean being able to play as an animal, like a lion or something, I don't know if that sort of thing is planned. You could probably get pretty close by using DFhack in the current game though, so who knows!I think they meant tribal animal people.
You mean, differently from how they currently progress through the values?I mean in worldgen. War Buddy and Lecture-Pal don't seem to have a distinct "progression" between one another. Is one more friendly than the other? Are either more/less than "friend"? Seems that the new system has a more open relationship setting based on actual events.
(I don't know if someone could obtain a grudge against a friend with the now-changing personalities.)
Athletic competitions were limited to intra-civilization participation, which wasn't great for forming links, so I looked at the trade routes and diplomatic state. Now a competition which occurs in a city linked to another peaceful civilization by trade can accept competitors from that civilization. After that was implemented, we even had a dwarf and elf become friends, before the war started. Of course, they bonded over a foot race, which the elf won, which didn't seem entirely fair in retrospect.Very exciting!
Nah, I just meant something like playing a giant leopard and terrorizing the local populace. I do appreciate the answers, though!It's the idea to eventually be able to play as dragons and such. I'm not sure if megabeasts count as "civilized" by virtue of being intelligent and sometimes extracting tribute from civilized creatures. If you mean being able to play as an animal, like a lion or something, I don't know if that sort of thing is planned. You could probably get pretty close by using DFhack in the current game though, so who knows!I think they meant tribal animal people.
In particular, I'm almost feeling ready for Villain Conspiracy Attempt #2, but I'll likely toy around a bit more with crime and garden-variety corruption to make the situation even more amenable to larger-scale bad deeds and blackmail.
Will it ever be possible to control non-civilized entities?Toady's plan is to implement a framework for a variety of embark scenarios, from your standard fortress to a roadside inn to a penal colony and so on; as such, I see no reason that primitive tribes wouldn't be supported, at least with modding.
Will innate skills/stat boosts affect adventure mode party creation costs?Will be nice just to get these working for adventurers for a start. [Natural_Skill] doesn't work right now at all, possibly some others too.
Because it kinda fits with Squamous' questions:Magic procgen civs will have procgen sites, I think.
When could NPC sites become moddable?
I think that if sites were moddable, you could ultimately save development time by essentially outsourcing the design work of NPC sites to community members who would probably come up with some interesting stuff. Of course, I know nothing about the code behind NPC sites, so I have no idea how difficult it would be to make them moddable, but could this potentially become more achievable after the map rewrite in the magic update?
Do you have a source for this? They'll definitely need to be more generalized, but all I've seen from Toady is a statement that sites will eventually be more modular. I don't recall him giving a timeframe.Because it kinda fits with Squamous' questions:Magic procgen civs will have procgen sites, I think.
When could NPC sites become moddable?
I think that if sites were moddable, you could ultimately save development time by essentially outsourcing the design work of NPC sites to community members who would probably come up with some interesting stuff. Of course, I know nothing about the code behind NPC sites, so I have no idea how difficult it would be to make them moddable, but could this potentially become more achievable after the map rewrite in the magic update?
I don't remember.Do you have a source for this? They'll definitely need to be more generalized, but all I've seen from Toady is a statement that sites will eventually be more modular. I don't recall him giving a timeframe.Because it kinda fits with Squamous' questions:Magic procgen civs will have procgen sites, I think.
When could NPC sites become moddable?
I think that if sites were moddable, you could ultimately save development time by essentially outsourcing the design work of NPC sites to community members who would probably come up with some interesting stuff. Of course, I know nothing about the code behind NPC sites, so I have no idea how difficult it would be to make them moddable, but could this potentially become more achievable after the map rewrite in the magic update?
What kind of turn based Adventure mechanics are we going to see in the next release? I know we can use multi-move for most of it, but from what I've seen there are moves we can make, like actually moving to another tile, that can set off a turn. Will we get a way to hold off a turn until every member of our party has set their actions?Lime green is the convention.
I plan on forming a D&D style party of my friends after I get comfortable with making parties in Adventure mode later on.
Adventurer Mode isn't turn based. Everything takes a specific amount of time to happen. If your speed is higher than normal then moving takes less time. You can see this in action by moving through a crowd of talking NPCs. If you crawl then they talk more during a single movement - if you sprint then they talk less per move.
Will night trolls be classified as villains?It doesn't seem particularly likely for the first pass. Villainous plots right now seem to rely on connections between civilized people, and night trolls either aren't part of civilizations in the first place, or leave civilization once forcefully converted. Eventually though, I imagine that they will be able to become villains (or more ambiguous figures, for that matter).
I look forward to a bug where a villain is turned in to a night troll spouse and proceeds to terrorize the world from their lair.I see no bug, only emergent gameplay
That said, how does a necromancer be a villain? They're mentioned in most of the villain update posts. These are the guys who hang out with zombies and spend centuries by themselves writing books in their towers, with occasional time-out to teach someone else the joys of such an existence. Not much different from a night-troll really.Will night trolls be classified as villains?It doesn't seem particularly likely for the first pass. Villainous plots right now seem to rely on connections between civilized people, and night trolls either aren't part of civilizations in the first place, or leave civilization once forcefully converted. Eventually though, I imagine that they will be able to become villains (or more ambiguous figures, for that matter).
That said, how does a necromancer be a villain? They're mentioned in most of the villain update posts. These are the guys who hang out with zombies and spend centuries by themselves writing books in their towers, with occasional time-out to teach someone else the joys of such an existence. Not much different from a night-troll really.Ah, but unlike a night-troll a necromancer can pass for your ordinary Joe. It's rather harder for a one-eyed freak with non-Euclidean limbs to hang about inconspicuously in a tavern. Furthermore, I imagine a necromancer entity would treated from the out as a criminal network. You'd have the founder, with his various acolytes acting as lieutenants, all presiding over a network of mortal agents. The nonstop writing could replaced, or at least interspersed, with endless plotting to retrieve artifacts, "acquire" valuable specimens, or the like.
Maybe we'll see letter writing introduced. That way necromancers can stay at home and do all their scheming by mail.That said, how does a necromancer be a villain? They're mentioned in most of the villain update posts. These are the guys who hang out with zombies and spend centuries by themselves writing books in their towers, with occasional time-out to teach someone else the joys of such an existence. Not much different from a night-troll really.Ah, but unlike a night-troll a necromancer can pass for your ordinary Joe. It's rather harder for a one-eyed freak with non-Euclidean limbs to hang about inconspicuously in a tavern. Furthermore, I imagine a necromancer entity would treated from the out as a criminal network. You'd have the founder, with his various acolytes acting as lieutenants, all presiding over a network of mortal agents. The nonstop writing could replaced, or at least interspersed, with endless plotting to retrieve artifacts, "acquire" valuable specimens, or the like.
Will we be able to play villains?Yes. Isn't that in the devblog already? Has been covered in fotf at least. You can give orders to your party members, which can be of the villanous kind. So essentially you can set up a bandit camp and play warlord.
Time to violence the entire world with style, then.Will we be able to play villains?Yes. Isn't that in the devblog already? Has been covered in fotf at least. You can give orders to your party members, which can be of the villanous kind. So essentially you can set up a bandit camp and play warlord.
I may have missed this, and I'm sorry if I have, but...Might have to wait until Laws & Customs (~6 years).
Are you planning on working on Guilds and/or Societies relatively soon, now that you're trying to create reasons for people to form relationships?
Since this week will be fotf devlog ill cheat the system and askI would laugh if he added a duplicate of the entire fotf answer at the end to answer your question...
What is your progress with villain update for this week? :D
I may have missed this, and I'm sorry if I have, but...Might have to wait until Laws & Customs (~6 years).
Are you planning on working on Guilds and/or Societies relatively soon, now that you're trying to create reasons for people to form relationships?
Are there plans to eventually allow for creatures with a child stage (such as insect larva) that are drastically different from the adult stage?Eventually is a long time. ;) I'm pretty sure I've seen this mentioned as being planned, but that transformations and the like can be tricky. Since these things are important for insects and other creatures to work, they should be planned. However, I can't find a definite mention that they are planned.
(Currently, this is impossible to do. But, considering the structure and description of the Purring Maggot, I have to wonder if it was originally envisioned to be the larval stage of a monstrous insect.)
Quote from: Ampersand
Question for future creature polymorphism. Will it be capable of changing the morph of a creature at a given trigger?
Once it can handle the transition from, say, a tadpole to a toad, then there wouldn't be as many restrictions, but I'm not handling that for a while. It'll need to tie in to hybridization, weird minotaur/centaurization stuff, and polymorph wound/inv retention, that kind of thing. Probably an extension of the body part categories or something.
Quote from: JoshuaFH
In the future, will it be possible to create creatures that 'transform' upon receiving certain stimuli, or after meeting some condition? Like, a snake that transforms into a bird and back? Or a caterpillar that undergoes the various stages of cacoon to a butterfly?
There are a boatload of problems that I think were brought up, but it's something that'll likely happen as we move toward magic and also work out how things like metamorphosis and eggs and all that work out.
Quote from: Neoskel
Were-critters involve temporary transformations into different creatures, with at least a tail being added to the body in most cases and lost upon turning back. Does this mean that natural metamorphosis will be available? Things like tadpoles gaining legs and losing tails when they change into frogs or mantis nymphs gaining wings as they become adults.
It'll start to lay some of the groundwork for that, but I'm not going to jump into that just yet. Wounds don't need to be preserved as much, and there isn't anything gradually about it, so it's easier to the the werebeasts.
Why don't you integrate the quality of life features present in dfhack (toggling priorities, planning mode, sand presence on embark to name a few) into the base game?Almost all of it is likely to get into the game eventually, (or not be needed due to the implmentation of other systems. Of course, they'll be systems made to integrate with the game and be future proof so probably quite different (if only internally) to the features Dfhack currently offers.
What are you planning on doing from the devlog after the villain arc?
Are there any ways planned for the counter-use of magic or defence against it? With the description of extremely powerful spells, it seems probable that a mature fort may piss off the wrong sorcerers and get wiped off the face of the earth with a catastrophically powerful hex.
Do you think it would be possible to simply adventurer mode into a set of rules that could be used as a pen-and-paper roleplaying game? On a purely mechanical level, for things like movement, combat, generic skill checks and so on.
If so, do you think it would be possible to data from generated worlds to use as source material for the game? For example, maps, a bestiary, and so on.
Do you think it will ever be possible for a character, object, or any other entity to cross between completely different generated worlds? Say you have more then one world generated and fuzzy magic:tm: happens while exploring some plane's edge or by some god's actions, or maybe a trait intrinsic to the character's own traits via race or adventurer reaction/status.
If so, do you think they'll be able to retain any of their own world-specific traits or skills, or find themselves always at the mercy of a new universe?
Could a world ever be flagged during creation to specifically pull someone(random or otherwise) from another world file to turn in to some sort of god-like or at least unusual historical figure? Obviously this would make the world much less reproducible unless you always used the same two seeds in a row without playing the previous world, but would such a thing ever be possible?
Playing in adventure mode i have noticed vampires are a bit currently dull. Vampires in mythology have always been powerful beings with many powers and abilities so Will Vampires get some new abilities like hypnosis, thrall creation, and polymorphism? And if so Would Vampire villians have different plot options from regular villians if they did have typical vampire powers?
With the new villains you are working on, I was wondering will villainous plots would form around adventure mode characters and their party, and maybe even with in the player's party (Betrayal)?
Also Will we every see adventure mode fast travel?
1. Will you be able to marry someone in adventure mode?
2. Will you be able to set links with your adventure party members (childhood friend/war buddy/wife/brother/etc.)
1. Are you touching fortress mode relationships before the next release? Most notably, will "childhood friends" and "war buddies" become relationships that can occur in fort mode too, or just in worldgen? Or are they a shorthand for just different circumstances under which people can become friends?
2. Do you take personalities & values into account when making worldgen friendships, or just in-game friendships?
3. Is remarriage (after being widowed or abandoned due to night creature transformation) in the cards for the next release? Worldgen, fort-mode, both?
Glad to hear that the issue of historical figure immigrants all being already-married is likely to come to an end soon.
if we're going to see relationships sour, does that mean divorce is going to be an option for unhappy couples?
When I listen to DF talk and watch the videos where you talk about the upcoming mythology update, it's hard not to notice all the references to randomly generated creatures. I quite enjoy modding creatures in Dwarf Fortress, but I can't edit or change any of the randomly generated creatures the game creates as it is and I'm worried that this is going to get worse and worse as development progresses. Will we be able to edit the tags of randomly generated creatures? Change what tags are associated to which sphere, for example? This question could be generalized to randomly generated anything, but I'm personally primarily interested in the creatures.
With the villains update, can we expect already existing criminal deeds (i.e. stealing, snatching) to be updated to work with the new framework? Something like thieves not actually having to leave the site and come back when trying to steal an artifact they’ve spotted in the fort.
So, word says that you personally look up atleast the OP of every suggestion thread
What are the types of suggestions threads that are the most useful/interesting to you toady? Those that explain in detail a certain subject and how could it be implemented in DF? Lists of features that use unexpected mechanics and original ideas?
I myself want to write some up, but sometimes I feel like what I write (or see in the suggestion's thread, for that regard) could be done quite better before being posted, as a big load are just iterations of magic stuff brainstorms. So it would be great to know what type of information you value the most
Will you at some point change the game so animals other than wolves be domesticated over the worlds history?
I hope the added relationship versions make it into fortress mode. Will we see children born out of wedlock and have the possibility of getting remarriages there (as well as spouses cheating on each other with lover(s) on the side)?
And: Is the age difference limitation for marriage lifted/modified in the process? (Sorry for a question that's very close to a suggestion).
And, even worse suggestiony: Is the rampant hist fig incest addressed in this process?
1. In one of the next two mini arches- adventuring parties and dynamic villains will our adventurers be able to learn about the relationships and histories of the people we meet? Currently asking about family only tells us about official relationships not stuff like love interests or affairs.
2. In the myth and magic update will possible magic include powers to learn about the histories of others without evening having to talk to them?
3. Further in the vain of personel histories would a possible kind of corruption in magical worlds include corruptions that replace one's memories of their life history with false ones? Like they don't remember their past correctly.
4. Will clothing and garments ever include pockets that can act as small containers we can use in adventure mode for small things like coins?
Many things I'd like to see for relationships!
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1. Will we be able to do wedding ceremonies in fort mode maybe in designated church or temple or any meeting place?
2. Will we encounter weddings in adventure mode past worldgen?
Will we ever get any tools or features to help deal with aquifers? Or is this meant to be an ever-present obstacle for the sake of realism?
Completely unrelated to anything you're working on now, what are your ideal plans for carrying items? Will there ever be volume restrictions? Physical encumbrance from anything besides armor/pure weight? Will "strapped to your body" items require string, sinew, or leather straps at some point in order to actually strap them on? Will adventurer item hauling (which sort of buggily exists) ever be more of a dragging across the ground thing, or a shoving to the next tile thing? What are your pie in the sky kind of hopes for it and what do you think are the big hurdles?
There's so many variations on this in other games and I know you usually go for the most realistic possible thing in a lot of situations. On the other hand since anything put in would probably have to be dealt with by the system once off-site items were better tracked, a lot of the more complicated systems in other games seem like they might overburden some of yours.
Will we get to set our adventurer's sexuality before the big wait?
Even if you don't make it to forming those relationships in adventure mode, having a player made villain tossed into the world while you're playing somewhere else would still be a lot cooler if they could be in a position to marry a monarch when you retire them. Or if you could just be a cool bisexual rat woman dragon slayer. I mean, that's the dream isn't it?
1. Will villains and their subordinates try to manipulate other faction's/peoples motives, to play people against one another or get them to do dirty work without realizing it?
2. Will villains have more occult motives (i.e. subverting/changing a religion, finding knowledge/enlightenment, etc.) or will it be more focused in material, concrete stuff for now?
3. Can NPCs be in a romantic relationship without it being sexual?
4. Will bi-, a-, and homosexual orientations make it as a minority of the population?
5. In the previous Future of the Fortress reply, you mentioned that permanent "death" for souls that have an afterlife is unlikely. However, will there be situations where a soul could be temporarily/indefinably contained or consumed without being obliterated?
5b. Could there be situations where a living creatures soul is altered or corrupted so as to affect it's natural fate, like lichdom, Nirvana-style enlightenment, demonic/angelic pacts, etc.?
6. Are night creatures planned that will psychically drain a life-force or soul to feed, as opposed to physical feeding or immediately killing their prey?
7. Will vampire cults be adopted to fit with new night creatures, or will some new system likely come into play? (if it comes into play at all?)
7b. If there will be night creature cults in the future, will there be any cults based around creatures that cannot transform followers like vampires can? What would motivate these cults?
8. In the magic update, could there be two magic systems that draw upon one type of mana, allowing one to power the other? (Like an innate wizard "charging" a magic item that would normally requires exposure to the same power the wizard uses, but through different means.)
9. Will certain symbols become recurring and socially relevant? (ex: in various ancient real-life cultures, horns are considered a sign of power, and some speculate that crowns symbolically replicate them)
10. Will people try to perform symbolically relevant actions? (such as the ancient Egyptians destroying the name of certain criminals post-execution, because they thought the name was a part of the soul)
11. You've stated that the initial method of restricting mythological knowledge will be to have races know about stuff that directly relate to them. Will we see "folk-tales" develop to fill in these gaps? Like humans blaming weeds on fairies because they don't know anything about them except they're nature-y and they exist?)
11b. Would these folk-tales (if they exist) be local (but spreadable), or on a broader scale, like a whole nation or race?
Quote from: Eric Blankso what are the new limitations on relationships going to be like?
Has the age range changed?
Are interspecies relationships like those in one particular threetoe story (minus the childbearing i know thats going to be a nightmare for you) possible now?
What determines now when relationships will begin producing children (because it sounds like that can now happen out of wedlock)?
Is there a limit to the number of times a hist figure will marry?
with crazy families like the same woman producing many children with many different men, will those children see one another as (half)siblings?
If a historical figure has a claim on an artifact, and multiple children of multiple spouses, will each childs inheritance of that claim be tracked separately or together as if they were one family? If i gave it to the child of her first union would that be recognized by the child of her last union as being "returned to their family?"
Can extramarital affairs happen now? Its not clear in the devlog if that one particular elf was actually married to any of the relations they were involved in. I immediately see the potential of having multiple affairs breaking down into jealous murder of one another, and thats a fine starting point for a story or villainous revenge plot.
To what extent will modders be able to control relationships, at creature or entity levels?Quote from: pikachu17So, apparently, children can now be born out of wedlock. Can a modder modify the likelihood of such an event, possibly by a new ethic?
Will people adopt other people as family/succession?
Adoption even with adults was long time a way to safe the line of succesion if a leader died and given that a ton of parents die in WG it would be nice to see some "lucky" children.
Also peoplemake friends now but what about enemies? Childhood abuse and such so they hate theyr parents?
When will improvements to the speech engine be made?
What kind of turn based Adventure mechanics are we going to see in the next release? I know we can use multi-move for most of it, but from what I've seen there are moves we can make, like actually moving to another tile, that can set off a turn. Will we get a way to hold off a turn until every member of our party has set their actions?
I plan on forming a D&D style party of my friends after I get comfortable with making parties in Adventure mode later on.
Will it ever be possible to control non-civilized entities?
Can relationships change over time? I'm thinking that rival athletes being thrown into war together and becoming war buddies is the plot of at least half a dozen movies.
Do athletic events have any consideration for the body attributes and skills of those participating? Similarly, is anything on the short term chopping block of fleshing out such events (actor-audience veneration style relationships, etc) in the short term, or are they largely thematic placeholders for now, to get the inter-social network of the world more depth for the villain-plot related arcs?
Another question: concerning "villainous plots", are the long term plans for these specifically to develop antagonists that can make clearly defined epics that the player can easily role play into? Or will the moralities and intentions of ambitious individuals start to become more ambiguous and diverse as ongoing development gives such actors more reasons to perform at odds with larger authorities?
With the implication of multiple (before, the different states only reacted with themselves in peacetime and often had no knowledge of others without a war or player fortress trading/buggy hill dwarf links) trade routes, introductions and bondings mean that we will have positive relations (to ruin with dwarven ingenuity and game exploits like petty goods seizing, raiding etc.) that might repair themselves over time while things happen off map during the process of a non worldgen fortress?
And one small side question, is "the master of beasts" a implicit nod towards the defunct beastmaster noble or just coincidentally a fancy title name for this variable position padding out?
With so much war, diplomacy is a bit lacking, nice to see even if just worldgen something is being done and we might yet see the power of mutual friendship between leaders colluding their spy networks to prevail over evil plotting and schemes to divide them purposefully. Medieval NATO or the UN.
You mentioned thinking of upgrading necromancer and bandit lairs to be more extensive, but have you considered something similar for vampires or is that not on the roadmap for the upcoming updates?
Is a new civ/site type at all possible in the (relatively) near future? Not particularly expecting it but I've just been thinking about how a nomadic/tent-dwelling civ might function with the new mount mechanics.
If civs have flying mounts will they make contact with normally unreachable civs?
Will innate skills/stat boosts affect adventure mode party creation costs?
When could NPC sites become moddable?
I think that if sites were moddable, you could ultimately save development time by essentially outsourcing the design work of NPC sites to community members who would probably come up with some interesting stuff. Of course, I know nothing about the code behind NPC sites, so I have no idea how difficult it would be to make them moddable, but could this potentially become more achievable after the map rewrite in the magic update?
Edit:
While we're on this topic, could you maybe give a little insight into how you code the procedural generation for sites like NPC dwarven fortresses?
Will night trolls be classified as villains?
What exactly are necromancers getting up to as villains? Do they have more outside interaction now? Hanging out in taverns making future zombie candidate false friendships and such?
Are elves getting any more positions?
They don't have many basic positions, unlike dwarves and the new variable position humans and goblins, so scheming network opportunities would seem to be fewer.
Although, maybe it suits the mood to have elves fairly resiliant to the rest of the world's scheming shenanigans (besides all those who wander far from the home tree to live the dream of being a naked troupe dancer).
Will we be able to play villains?
Are you planning on working on Guilds and/or Societies relatively soon, now that you're trying to create reasons for people to form relationships?
What is your progress with villain update for this week?
Are there plans to eventually allow for creatures with a child stage (such as insect larva) that are drastically different from the adult stage?
(Currently, this is impossible to do. But, considering the structure and description of the Purring Maggot, I have to wonder if it was originally envisioned to be the larval stage of a monstrous insect.)
Why don't you integrate the quality of life features present in dfhack (toggling priorities, planning mode, sand presence on embark to name a few) into the base game?
Bit of a self-bump here. I know that testing long-term mechanics is difficult for you due to the time required. That said, are you aware of current issues with the new stress sytem? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171185.0) Based on reports here & in Reddit, stress-reducing effects seem greatly underpowered compared to stress-causing effects.
Will plots be able to come in multiple stages, say a person wants to be immortal and take over the world, would steal a necomancer’s slab, learn the secrets of life and death, then male an unstoppable undead army to take over the world?
On a related note, would plotters be ‘greedy’ and do opportunite things like steal a gold ring while carrying out a plot?
Will we ever get another glimpse at the myth generator? I'm pretty sure more than a few players would like to mess around with it and see what happens.Ever? Of course. That's the point, isn't it?
Will we ever get another glimpse at the myth generator? I'm pretty sure more than a few players would like to mess around with it and see what happens.
Quote from: KittyTacWould you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.I'd prefer not to do this. I think it both has the bar too high in some places (effect lists, at least for release one, probably) and too low in others (most everything else.) It's not reflective enough of what I want to do, and I don't want expectations to coalesce around it overmuch.
Will we ever get another glimpse at the myth generator? I'm pretty sure more than a few players would like to mess around with it and see what happens.All of the pictures we've seen of it thus far have been from presentations Tarn has given. I imagine he'll do more in the future and that it will continue to feature, as it is fairly central to his vision for Dwarf Fortress. And even if he doesn't, we'll almost certainly get myth-excerpts in the numerous Dev Diary entries during the Big Wait.
Thanks for the answers, Toady. However, an immediate follow up:
The +/-max (10,age/2) check for marriage would mean +max (10, age/2) to -max (10, age/3) in practice if both parties are required to pass the check. However, I can see trouble brewing if the older party tries to pursue an eligible younger one who doesn't find the older one eligible. Currently it probably doesn't matter, but if they are eventually going to act on their desires this can cause them to embark on impossible quests, in particular if the younger one doesn't reject (nor accept, naturally) an advance from someone who's already dismissed for age reasons (although, with time, they will both come within the age range, unless death happens first).
It's intended more as a potential trouble indication than an actual question.
@Random_Dragon: "The unrequited love" scenario is quite legitimate, but both parties should act accordingly (where completely ignoring an advance might be considered suitable, but the game should then know how to handle that if so). However, I basically asked the question to avoid it resulting in a bug, as it's typically easier to address issues while they're fresh in the mind.
The goal eventually is to trash the distinction between the surface and the underground, since the underground layer structures as well as the surface river structures are likely toast as they stand with the map rewrite. I'm not sure if that ends up being cubes with traits, or what, but hopefully it'll be a unit that we can act on in text. Right now, the human/elf vs. dwarf/kob site distinction is too hard-coded and messy (with gobs in between, with their fort-like tower and the rest otherwise using more human structures, though trenches are their own thing -- but the reason we can sometimes do goblin towers in conquered human sites is because they basically work with the same framework for their typical structures.)Huh, I didn't know goblin towers can be errected in human cities, that's pretty awesome. That sounds like the map rewrite could make NPC sites a whole lot more dynamically mixed. It also sounds like the rewrite will be a hella lot of work, looking at how much code will need to be reworked.
I have the general sense that different aquifer speeds might be in order. Right now they are (kind of, not really) like these artesian aquifer pictures where the water is like SPLOOSH, but there's the other notion of just, like, a somewhat drippy cavern that might need some occasional helping and some pumps down below. The latter would be pretty easy to set up, probably, with little 1/7s of water just popping out every so often, piling up if they aren't dealt with. I've forgotten what's correct now, having not studied aquifers for many many years; I'm not sure that ground water speed illustration in the reply there encapsulates the positive pressure situation once the water is given a route out into open air, since that water literally spouts from sandstone into the air like a constant geyser. That suggests that all possibilities in the range are permitted depending on the other layers of rock (which we could just fudge, pretty much), but I'd defer to a hydrogeologist, or related professional, or anybody.It's great to hear that you're considering a tweak of aquifer water production speed. Just a short while ago while getting through an aquifer via cave in I was thinking to myself how aquifers would be waaaay less of a pain if only they dripped their water at a slower pace.
...The age limit was modified in fact -- when I was looking through legends at some point, I found a 176 year old unmarried elf, and it turned out there was simply nobody available in the +/-10 age range (and of course, no elves in that age band could ever be produced again, so that was it.) So now it uses +/-max(10,agediff/2), with extra fudging over time if match-making fails.
Age range answered above -- currently running with +/-max(10,age/2) instead of +/-10, with some tweaks.
Could someone please explain the notation Toady used to tell us how the age limit for marriage/relationships is currently determined? Is that written in C# programming code or a code shorthand? I don't recall...I might be wrong, but I'm assuming it means people can initiate relationships with people who are at least half their age, but there's also a minimum of 10 years.
Also, which is it? +/-max(10,agediff/2) -OR- +/-max(10,age/2)
I believe those two equations are quite different. Though, I'm tempted to assume that the "age" in the 2nd equation is just a typo for "agediff" or age difference because it does not specify the current age of a specific partner.
He he, yeah, certainly if dwarves still exist by the time you start playing, they were doing something right, even if it was just laying low while the surface world was being scoured by magical forces. Presumably resistance/counters/etc. will enter into it.
:
Could someone please explain the notation Toady used to tell us how the age limit for marriage/relationships is currently determined? Is that written in C# programming code or a code shorthand? I don't recall...
Also, which is it? +/-max(10,agediff/2) -OR- +/-max(10,age/2)
I believe those two equations are quite different. Though, I'm tempted to assume that the "age" in the 2nd equation is just a typo for "agediff" or age difference because it does not specify the current age of a specific partner.
Probably? Common in fantasy stories, so depending on the world.
Will the deities made in world gen ever demand an amount of worship, and if that amount is not met, will they send catastrophic events to the fortress?
I have a question about general development, if that's appropriate. Once a feature fails to meet a deadline, is it permanently abandoned, or simply put on the backburner? What is the plan to deal with features that could not be implemented due to deadlines?Everything in the devnotes are features due to be implemented. Things that were put off (like procgen tavern games) will get looked at next time that area of the game gets looked at (Economy probably which will look at poverty and gambling. Maybe earlier if there's a need for gamblers to be wandering the world to make some other feature work more smoothly).
Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in toToady is aversed to such things.
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.
Can you please then say what did he answer.Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in toToady is aversed to such things.
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.
I just heard that he is averse to adding genitals. Any questions?Can you please then say what did he answer.Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in toToady is aversed to such things.
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.
Toady is aversed to such things.Still he added gelding strikes in battle.
I meant that he's averse to adding genitals as body parts rather than abstractions like gelding strikes.Toady is aversed to such things.Still he added gelding strikes in battle.
Will there be genitals introduced? I know its kinda childish question but it would be cool to kick elfs right in toTo elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals. One Obok Meatgod was bad enough. There's no point in encouraging that sort of behavior.
their elven woodsacks or torturing someone using the same method.
The last thing I remember him saying on the topic was "I really do not want DF to become 'That game with those pissing and shitting and raping dwarfs'. So he tends to avoid bodily functions and sensitive topics all together.I see. I understand his point of view and respect it but you can already do some disgusting stuff in df (like kill someone's kid and bash its parent with its head to death) and noone says that df is that game where you murder children etc. Everyone says that its a great game though.
To elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals.
The last thing I remember him saying on the topic was "I really do not want DF to become 'That game with those pissing and shitting and raping dwarfs'. So he tends to avoid bodily functions and sensitive topics all together.
I see. I understand his point of view and respect it but you can already do some disgusting stuff in df (like kill someone's kid and bash its parent with its head to death) and noone says that df is that game where you murder children etc. Everyone says that its a great game though.
Just penises and testicles to men and ovaries to women. But no worries, it's just a minor thing I do to bodies.
The main reason I do it is because I wanted to do it for a long time. I don't think that genitals are "wrong" in a game where you can dismember a kid and beat his parents with his corpse. It's just another bodypart which you can slash off (or lose) which adds to a realism a bit.
It still will be funny when you retire your neutered adventurer and you think "Lolwut?how did he get a kid?"
Reading too much into it? Hardly. If Toady doesn't want poop catapults (and he's said as much), then he almost certainly doesn't want an adventurer force-feeding an enemy his own manhood, or seizing female characters by the you-know-what, or doing any other number of lurid things one could do with simulated nether-bits. The lack of graphics is irrelevant; the game describes combat in painstaking detail. And I can guarantee you that there'd be a constant stream of posts to the effect of "LOL! I killed a guy with his own dong! I bet no one's ever done that before!" See also: Crusader Kings 2 and its addled personal physicians.To elaborate on what KittyTac said, Tarn doesn't want DF getting a reputation as a filth simulator. It's for this reason he hasn't added feces, and I assume the same applies to genitals.
"I assume"? Are you sure that is not reading too much into it? Anyway, body parts are limited to text names / descriptions, which are abstract. It's not like DF would ever end up displaying graphics of such parts, in 3D or otherwise.
Yall can just add your favorite bodyparts and functions yourselves anyway. It wouldnt even be that difficult.And keep your fun to yourself if you do...
EDIT: And even with violence Toady has his limits, as demonstrated by the mermaid bone-farming debacle.There's nothing preventing you from farming mermaids for fun.
EDIT: And even with violence Toady has his limits, as demonstrated by the mermaid bone-farming debacle.
There's nothing preventing you from farming mermaids for fun.
Yall can just add your favorite bodyparts and functions yourselves anyway. It wouldnt even be that difficult.
I'm against that, because it would literally add nothing and Toady's time is best spent on other things.
Dudes no need to argue about wieners. I feel very sorry that i asked this stupid question and it got a debate in fotf thread which supposed to be used for questions, not arguing. Lets just get over it and start asking questions again.You can PM Toady to delete your question and all of the arguing about it.
In your presentation you said that we can send our companions to do mischief and that its similar to raid menu in fort mode. Will we be able to specify mischief (like send some guys on a raid/raze/stealing artifact mission) and how will they find the adventurer when they finished with their mission? Like if i send someone to form links i think that he should come back and tell about links that have been formed/mischiefs that he had done. So how will he find me in a big world map?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think it is now possible with the addition of geldables. The geldable organs presently are the guts, but I imagine the tags can be changed around and added to modded genitals.Nor do I believe it is possible to induce sterility after the loss or injury of modded genitals.
As far as I can tell, Genesis Mod was the only mod to do genitalia. And it was dropped a long time ago. Not even TomiTapio's OldGenesis has them. If it was "easy", wouldn't there have been others?Wouldn't it be trivial though? This sounds like something you could literally set in the BDP or similar, and have it apply to all species that use said plans. And as ZM5 says, geld-ability literally is already compatible with extra organs. Why is there all this compassion about a feature being unmoddable coming from someone who hasn't even dug through the raws enough to understand that?
From your perspective, would it fall under the purview of goblin civilization (or, more specifically, any civ with the babysnatcher tag) to snatch babies from uncivilized peoples, or should they only take interest in civilized sites as is currently? Would be quite FUN to discover that the local Dark Fortress has salt water crocodile men, harpies, and heck, a small population of giants in their ranks.
1. When playing necromancer or vampire in adventure mode will we be able to promise our companions/random people secrets of life and death/eternal life to get them as our minions (if their goals are the same/similar with the promise)
1.1 Will we be able to turn our whole adventure party into vampires/necros with their agreement?
2. Will loyal adventurers that were with you through some fights with beasts/gobbos/etc. attack you if they find out that you are a vampire/necro?
3. Will we be able to do mischief in fort mode? Make agents, send them to elven forest and make them start a war with humans/do something else
4. You were talking about villains that have a goal but will there be villains without one? Villains whospread chaos/agony/pain? Force of nature Villains as they called. That category might fit demons or beasts[/color]
You already can make multiple attacks at the same time.It is, yeah, I forgot that, how stupid of me. I'll delete that from my question.
Do you plan on adding measurement units for values? Metric? Would civs have their own measurements?
Let's use heuristic technique. :D
Will Bogeymen be used in Villain plots?They would make no sense in a procedural magic system, so bogeymen will be replaced by procgen things.
Or will they beremovedfixed in myth and magic release?
Will Bogeymen be used in Villain plots?They would make no sense in a procedural magic system, so bogeymen will be replaced by procgen things.
Or will they beremovedfixed in myth and magic release?
To what extent do you expect to use hyperlinks within / after the development of the coming long-wait update? If my memory serves well, I recall the use of hyperlinks in the myth demo.Hyperlinks would definitely improve the help screen.
I ask with specific reference towards their use between the mentions of Hist. figs., Civilisations, Organisations, Events, etc and a page which defines them.
Or is their inclusion deferred to a particular future update?
And in legends menu, in general. But i think that implementing this would be longer than you imagine (or perhaps you already know)Possibly, but it's going to go that way eventually. It's already part of Mythgen.
All questions as usual about the next update. Will we be able to send messenger to trade outposts to request a caravan? If yes will we be able to pick what we need for extra money like with mountainhome? Will we be able send a squad to rob them for good loot. With the addition of merchants will we finally see caravans in adventure mode?
Will the event knowledge system be reworked any time soon? There are a lot of cases where, say, a location is mentioned to an adventurer, and it doesn't transfer to the adventurer's talk menu, the adventurer's log/status screen, and/or the legends screen (with legends not revealed by default).Sounds like you should make a bug report.
Hey, I get that deities in general won't be worked on until the Magic Update, but at some point before that could you at least fix it so that Adventurers from an Elven civ have a way to satisfy the need to pray? Cause right now praying doesn't work for Elven adventurers even though they have religion. It's cause of the different worship system I think.The thing is, are force worshippers even meant to pray? There's no point in taking the time to add a temporary 'let elves pray' placeholder to get around a minor bug that you can easily workaround (reduce need to pray in character creation) if it's just going to be removed in the next development arc. Everyone has their pet bugs, there's really no point in posting hundreds of 'when will you fix xyz?' demands here.
I keep hearing people mention merchant caravans, where is the source for this being added soon?
Will the event knowledge system be reworked any time soon? There are a lot of cases where, say, a location is mentioned to an adventurer, and it doesn't transfer to the adventurer's talk menu, the adventurer's log/status screen, and/or the legends screen (with legends not revealed by default).Sounds like you should make a bug report.
Also this one is kinda offtopic and i think its been answered here before but can Toady put screenshots in devlogs? Or site's engine wont allow it? It would be fun to look at forgotten beast warehouse administrator picture. Or at any picture related to the new things being made (especially when it comes to the big wait)
2 questions:"Silly" additions just meant that, as usual, he was taking things a little too far. Adding so many interactions to the world to support his villains. Merchants, religion, crime, etc. But as he said, that helps produce a deep meaningful system.
When you talk about silly additions, what do you mean? My experience with previous additions is that the silly stuff is normally caused by weird interactions between recently fleshed out systems and systems that are still placeholders.
As Dwarf Fortress gets more complex, how do you check for bugs? It seems too complex to exhaustively search the event space, but just turning it on and seeing what pops out seems likely to miss things. Maybe I should specifically ask how you came to check what happened to the trade warehouse when the fortress got hit by a forgotten beast?
You mentioned in the 10/23/2018 devlog post that a forgotten beast attacked a fortress. Was this in worldgen? To my knowledge, forgotten beasts don't come out from underground during in worldgen in the current version (0.44.12). Or was this during post-wg fortress mode?Underground is where dwarf fortresses are...
It can be FBs.You mentioned in the 10/23/2018 devlog post that a forgotten beast attacked a fortress. Was this in worldgen? To my knowledge, forgotten beasts don't come out from underground during in worldgen in the current version (0.44.12). Or was this during post-wg fortress mode?Underground is where dwarf fortresses are...
But, hmm. Sure I've seen forgotten beast attacks in worldgen. Must check my worlds histories later. Maybe its always megabeasts.
Yup. Quick look at Legends (44.12 generated world) reveals tons of Forgotten Beast attacks on sites (seems to be all fortresses) during worldgen. Where did you hear they don't attack in worldgen, Hinaichigo? Is it something that needs correcting on the wiki?It can be FBs.You mentioned in the 10/23/2018 devlog post that a forgotten beast attacked a fortress. Was this in worldgen? To my knowledge, forgotten beasts don't come out from underground during in worldgen in the current version (0.44.12). Or was this during post-wg fortress mode?Underground is where dwarf fortresses are...
But, hmm. Sure I've seen forgotten beast attacks in worldgen. Must check my worlds histories later. Maybe its always megabeasts.
I have three-ish questions.1) Humans have pretty flexible ethics, being fond of both slavery and tree murder. Probably not an issue as it seems to be only humans right now. Hopefully values are taken into account with the more knowledge loving human civs spawning mobile libraries (etc).
1. How raw oriented are the new companies/religions/organizations? While I expect it is mostly hard coded, will they respect ethics and values? Like an elf company refusing to buy or sell wood, or a civilization who is absolutely disgusted by commerce completely lacking companies in the first place.
2.Would an organization that was controlled by a villain or completely corrupted by a villain's plot act villainous? Killing a villain is one thing, but killing an entire evil corporation or cult is another thing entirely.
3. In the absurd case that this does happen (potential bugs notwithstanding), could your entire fortress be roped into a villainous plot and you remain blissfully unaware?
I realize that it may be too early to say if these sorts of things will make the cut before the Big Wait, but can't hurt to ask.
Yup. Quick look at Legends (44.12 generated world) reveals tons of Forgotten Beast attacks on sites (seems to be all fortresses) during worldgen. Where did you hear they don't attack in worldgen, Hinaichigo? Is it something that needs correcting on the wiki?It can be FBs.You mentioned in the 10/23/2018 devlog post that a forgotten beast attacked a fortress. Was this in worldgen? To my knowledge, forgotten beasts don't come out from underground during in worldgen in the current version (0.44.12). Or was this during post-wg fortress mode?Underground is where dwarf fortresses are...
But, hmm. Sure I've seen forgotten beast attacks in worldgen. Must check my worlds histories later. Maybe its always megabeasts.
Dark Fortresses are also underground by site-type, but can't be targeted by forgotten beasts due to it being explicitly exposed to somewhere else down the winding paths.
Dark Fortresses are also underground by site-type, but can't be targeted by forgotten beasts due to it being explicitly exposed to somewhere else down the winding paths.
So sites have a tag for spoiler connections?
1. Will plotting/intrigue mechanics ever be generalized and used by non-villains, for non-villainous ends?Yes. From this month's FotF (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7864339#msg7864339):
Quoteiceball3Yeah, "villainous plots" is the current framing, and a handy enough way to think about it, and the starting plots are going to be more on the corrupt/etc. side of things, but even now, some of it can be viewed more as "spy vs. spy" or as a tale of vengeance (which has whatever moral shade) or paranoia. The mechanics will apply to everybody operating in this sphere over time, as things become more interesting. It's just easier to start with the straightforward stuff, and easier to make it player-facing.
Another question: concerning "villainous plots", are the long term plans for these specifically to develop antagonists that can make clearly defined epics that the player can easily role play into? Or will the moralities and intentions of ambitious individuals start to become more ambiguous and diverse as ongoing development gives such actors more reasons to perform at odds with larger authorities?
I was referring more to things like merchants trying to build a larger social network, or someone recruiting the relative of a sweetheart to get married, and other things not explicitly intrigue-y.1. Will plotting/intrigue mechanics ever be generalized and used by non-villains, for non-villainous ends?Yes. From this month's FotF (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7864339#msg7864339):QuoteQuoteiceball3Yeah, "villainous plots" is the current framing, and a handy enough way to think about it, and the starting plots are going to be more on the corrupt/etc. side of things, but even now, some of it can be viewed more as "spy vs. spy" or as a tale of vengeance (which has whatever moral shade) or paranoia. The mechanics will apply to everybody operating in this sphere over time, as things become more interesting. It's just easier to start with the straightforward stuff, and easier to make it player-facing.
Another question: concerning "villainous plots", are the long term plans for these specifically to develop antagonists that can make clearly defined epics that the player can easily role play into? Or will the moralities and intentions of ambitious individuals start to become more ambiguous and diverse as ongoing development gives such actors more reasons to perform at odds with larger authorities?
Also, as there are no customs to control things, I didn't add any placeholder tags here, but I'm open to suggestions if people want to tweak it a bit before those years pass.Im gonna make a new thread for this because its big and doesnt belong here but you offered so :v
Man i cant wait for Fotf of this month :DYes. That's what partially done means. When that might be is another question...
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
Damn dude no need to be passive-aggressive. I implied the question of what Toady wants to rework or remake in the Adventure overview. Sorry if i phrased that wrongMan i cant wait for Fotf of this month :DYes. That's what partially done means. When that might be is another question...
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
1.With Trading Companies, would embargos and trade wars now be a thing? Depriving an area of its trade rather than outright invading it?1. Unlikely. In order for an embargo to hurt the economy, there has to be an economy to hurt, and that arc is a fair bit off. The trade companies are currently being introduced to allow for plots, but the economic part of them will largely have to wait for that framework to be in place. We can assume, however, that Toady has some idea of how to integrate them when that time comes.
2. Will plots be able to smuggle things by taking control of the companies?
What would you want to smuggle?
A good response! However, with export bans flicking on and off at a whim it's not particularly practical, as the ban will have been lifted by the time you've organized the smuggling operation. Now, a long term ban would be a different issue, in particular an import one. I don't see either being implemented in the near term, though.What would you want to smuggle?
Whatever is under an export ban! :D
Though I'm not sure how that could be connected up at the moment in terms of payment/trade, risks to the smugglers (both citizens and trade company rep's) etc.
How exactly are more complicated reactions going to be used during world gen?When? Next release? Post-Big Wait? The far future.
And it is rather hard to browse bugs right now because the filters change randomly when going back a page.
Oh lord, that explain so much! Thanks!And it is rather hard to browse bugs right now because the filters change randomly when going back a page.
The bugtracker has a shared guest account--the filters change because some other guest user modified them. If you are logged in, your filters will only change when you change them. (Being per-user, they still make running two concurrent searches impossible, though.)
From a quick test of Mantis's own tracker, the behavior appears to have changed such that filters are set per-instance, so updating the tracker software would resolve this particular problem. I'm not a big fan of some of the design changes (the "Timeline" looks like the kind of thing management would use to satisfy themselves that 'work is happening', and the nearly-entirely-white backgrounds are eye-strain inducing), though I don't know if those things are customizable.
Will we ever get another glimpse at the myth generator? I'm pretty sure more than a few players would like to mess around with it and see what happens.
Thanks for the answers, Toady. However, an immediate follow up:
The +/-max (10,age/2) check for marriage would mean +max (10, age/2) to -max (10, age/3) in practice if both parties are required to pass the check. However, I can see trouble brewing if the older party tries to pursue an eligible younger one who doesn't find the older one eligible. Currently it probably doesn't matter, but if they are eventually going to act on their desires this can cause them to embark on impossible quests, in particular if the younger one doesn't reject (nor accept, naturally) an advance from someone who's already dismissed for age reasons (although, with time, they will both come within the age range, unless death happens first).
Will very powerful (as in endgame) adventurers be able to do the stuff a villain can do? Can they be the villains when the player no longer controls them?
Adding to that question, can a retired adventurer change occupations?
Regarding adventure mode pets, will the players be able to acquire one even if they don't start with one? Say, either via taming a wild animal in some way, or via buying them in some kind of new "pet store" that'd show up in sites.
Dwarves in various tropes/myths are actually taken to be naturally resistant to many forms of magic. (Just some examples: Majesty: The Fantasy Kingdom Sim, D&D.) Will this be the case for the 'default' dwarven race (I get this notion might become more fluid, but putting that aside for the moment) from the myth release onward, relative to other races?
When was the last time you took vacation? Are you planning an extended holiday before starting on Myth & Magic (The Big Wait)? Just want to make sure you properly decompress every once in a while.
Will the deities made in world gen ever demand an amount of worship, and if that amount is not met, will they send catastrophic events to the fortress?
I have a question about general development, if that's appropriate. Once a feature fails to meet a deadline, is it permanently abandoned, or simply put on the backburner? What is the plan to deal with features that could not be implemented due to deadlines?
In your presentation you said that we can send our companions to do mischief and that its similar to raid menu in fort mode. Will we be able to specify mischief (like send some guys on a raid/raze/stealing artifact mission) and how will they find the adventurer when they finished with their mission? Like if i send someone to form links i think that he should come back and tell about links that have been formed/mischiefs that he had done. So how will he find me in a big world map?
From your perspective, would it fall under the purview of goblin civilization (or, more specifically, any civ with the babysnatcher tag) to snatch babies from uncivilized peoples, or should they only take interest in civilized sites as is currently? Would be quite FUN to discover that the local Dark Fortress has salt water crocodile men, harpies, and heck, a small population of giants in their ranks.
All questions here about the next update (or updates before the big wait).
1. When playing necromancer or vampire in adventure mode will we be able to promise our companions/random people secrets of life and death/eternal life to get them as our minions (if their goals are the same/similar with the promise)
1.1 Will we be able to turn our whole adventure party into vampires/necros with their agreement?
2. Will loyal adventurers that were with you through some fights with beasts/gobbos/etc. attack you if they find out that you are a vampire/necro?
3. Will we be able to do mischief in fort mode? Make agents, send them to elven forest and make them start a war with humans/do something else
4. You were talking about villains that have a goal but will there be villains without one? Villains whospread chaos/agony/pain? Force of nature Villains as they called. That category might fit demons or beasts
My questions are mostly related to adventure mode.
1. Will NPCs use dual-wielding? Will dwarves in the fortress use two weapons at once and simultaneous dual-wielding attacks?
2. How good will the disguise system be made? Will it be possible to use magic and special tools to disguise oneself? Like fake beards, made-up scars, for instance, or even a comlpete full-body illusion that makes a human appear and talk as an elf.
3. Will it be possible to effectively impersonate someone to gain some benefit of their position? Like giving some bad orders to the army of your enemy civ and stuff.
4. Will the language ability get some use in the game? So that people will talk among themselves in their native lang and using "common" to talk to others (if they know it), and the player character won't understand anything unless he knows the specific language.
4.1. Also, in case this is implemented, will different civs of the same race have slightly (or strongly) different languages?
5. Haven't really encountered it so far, so I'll ask: will different civs of the same race wage war against each other?
6. Will we have explosives (magical or normal) to use as a mining and/or military tool? Will invaders use tham to destroy dwarven fortifications?
More thinking about next update brings me more questions. In one of your interviews you said that adventurer can actually talk the demon lord out to change his values to love life and he wont go to wars anymore. Will we be able to talk the villains out (just regular rulers, dont think that itll work on vamps or necros) so they will understand that they went on the wrong path and war is actually bad (not if its a war with elfs though) so they will stop scheming and begin normal righteous life. Asking about the next update or updates before the big wait ofc
Also what major bugs are you going to fix before the big wait?
Because I think our thousands of individual threads for accounting would be way easier with how many meters of thread or how many square meters of cloth. Litres of water would make me feel more comfortable than three waters.
Do you plan on adding measurement units for values? Metric? Would civs have their own measurements?
Though learning that every new gen might end up being just a drag for players...
I made it through a vault and now I have a cute new friend made of filth and grime. What will "befriending" such a creature mean for its role as a villain? Will it still generate schemes for its home civ? Can it be made to very easily influence the civ it is/was running? Will people notice its run off with that supposed monster hunter from Far Away Civ and elevate a new ruler? Could it be switched to using the swapping between adventures interface upon it joining your party (since it is a pretty big investment to get)? If it's sent off screen can it do its own schemes? And please oh please can it try to have its controller assassinated?
I feel like once there's more sense of antagonism possible my friend wouldn't be so friendly in the arrangement we have now. I wouldn't in that position. It certainly seems to want to fight about the nuance of every value, so maybe it'll never really trust me enough to control it directly even if it's compelled to tag along to the extent it is now.
Also, I've gotta say, vaults are a pretty fun dungeon after all my time lost in sewers. Those levers have me so excited for the future.
Will Bogeymen be used in Villain plots?
Or will they be removed fixed in myth and magic release?
To what extent do you expect to use hyperlinks within / after the development of the coming long-wait update? If my memory serves well, I recall the use of hyperlinks in the myth demo.
I ask with specific reference towards their use between the mentions of Hist. figs., Civilisations, Organisations, Events, etc and a page which defines them.
Or is their inclusion deferred to a particular future update?
Merchants and companies and stuff. Interesting.
Does this mean the merchants who visit your fortress will now be actual exisitng merchants who've travelled across the map from someplace to get to you? Or are they still the magically generated kind?
All questions as usual about the next update. Will we be able to send messenger to trade outposts to request a caravan? If yes will we be able to pick what we need for extra money like with mountainhome? Will we be able send a squad to rob them for good loot. With the addition of merchants will we finally see caravans in adventure mode?
Do travelling merchants accompany trade caravans in scheduled visits or do they arrive individually?
You said that there will be villain plots based on revenge. So my question is will there be a hatred for the whole race? Like young elven slave hating on all the humans for killing his relatives so his villain plot would just be "kill as much humans as i can" or something else that would do damage to the whole human race?
Before the big wait, do you have any plans to expand the representation of structures and sites on the world map? For instance, goblins have taverns but the player can't visit them in adventure mode, while dying civilizations that make take their last stand in outdoor tombs that belong to them cannot be visited by the player.
While all these trade changes are being made, might we see player-controlled caravans in fort or adventure mode before the big wait? Or is that definitely something you are leaving until the economy arc?
The new stress system is complex and I realized my dwarves could use a vacation.
Were there ever any plans to give dwarves a designation to prioritize relaxation? and only work to satisfy orders/craftmoods slowly?
or is it good enough just to allow them to make work a priority and if they're not given a job, they simply socialize? (Or burrow them, i guess.) I was thinking it's hard to get certain groups of my fort to socialize because they rush to complete work orders. I think there should be a way to ORDER them to go have a chat or a drink! A schedualing system for non-military dwarves to work or play (Months to auto-assign burrows to citizens..)?
With all the activity, missions, and other things going on, Will dwarves ever be allowed to wander the surrounding wilds? Occupation: adventurer?
It could present both happy 'unsupervised free time' thoughts, and they can go collect, hunt, explore, or do whatever they want offsite.. And maybe they bring back an exotic kill, or plant, or some random junk that might not have already been on the map!
Hey, I get that deities in general won't be worked on until the Magic Update, but at some point before that could you at least fix it so that Adventurers from an Elven civ have a way to satisfy the need to pray? Cause right now praying doesn't work for Elven adventurers even though they have religion. It's cause of the different worship system I think.
1. With merchant caravans being more present in the next update would a new possible adventurer quest to be included before the big wait be guarding the caravan as it moves from one site to another?
2. Will the addition of trade caravans mean local site shops finally having a way to resupply their stock while adventure mode is running?
3. Will certain villians make use of were beasts as minnions in their scemes? Spreading the curse is a great way to sow chaos.
4. With the addition of more personal NPC relationships for purposes of intrigue will our own adventurer's personal relationships with NPCs be shown more clearly?
Will the event knowledge system be reworked any time soon? There are a lot of cases where, say, a location is mentioned to an adventurer, and it doesn't transfer to the adventurer's talk menu, the adventurer's log/status screen, and/or the legends screen (with legends not revealed by default).
Will we see an overhaul of military invasions before the big wait? Right now they invasion mechanics are more than a little wonky, with armies arriving in small groups over a period of weeks before finally gathering and launching a weird and anticlimactic attack on the site that the player can't really do much about. That's my experience with it anyway. Will this change at all in the future? And also, will the previously mentioned adventure mode military improvements (adventurers leading armies for example) be implemented either?
Quote from: Real_bangI have some questions about new devlog (as usual at this point, sorry if im overflowing you with questions).
Will trading companies be able to open a branch warehouse in our fortress? If so will multiple companies be able to do it? Will this be the same with religion? What would be our benefit from letting them open a warehouse in our fortress? Will they build it themselves or we will have to construct it for them?
Also this one is kinda offtopic and i think its been answered here before but can Toady put screenshots in devlogs? Or site's engine wont allow it? It would be fun to look at forgotten beast warehouse administrator picture. Or at any picture related to the new things being made (especially when it comes to the big wait)Quote from: NopenopeWill there be trading outposts in player fortresses? Will the player be able to send their own trading outposts?Quote from: NopenopeCan I request that you post more screenshots of the game in your devlogs? I know sometimes you do, but I really do think it would be very helpful (and hype raising) to post more of them whenever you have an interesting feature to preview, like what you did with the myth generator.
When you talk about silly additions, what do you mean? My experience with previous additions is that the silly stuff is normally caused by weird interactions between recently fleshed out systems and systems that are still placeholders.
As Dwarf Fortress gets more complex, how do you check for bugs? It seems too complex to exhaustively search the event space, but just turning it on and seeing what pops out seems likely to miss things. Maybe I should specifically ask how you came to check what happened to the trade warehouse when the fortress got hit by a forgotten beast?
Q - What kind of conditions need to be met before companies* manage to shake hands with dwarves and set up a building belonging to another race in the middle of a market town?
Q - Do organisations present in other civilisations go any further towards the modularity of cities pre-site rewrite development goals? Much in the mind that a long time ago you released development pictures of how villages are formed out of preset pieces but arranged appropriate to population sprawl with space for fields etc. Now we have more structures like these warehouses placing themselves between everything.
*(to keep the answer simple rather than addressing other 'organisations')
I mention this because dwarves and humans tend to be pretty friendly anyway, building roads between one another and regularly taking in adventurer traffic compared to elves who are warlike over cultural dogma and aggrieve other civilisations against them for repulsive habits. There would be circumstances where through player interaction the company's trade would break down if the player took action though right?
The only other example where this happens I can think of is when enemy civilisations decide to build fortifications over a site, like goblin trenches (which don't really do anything to boost positional advantage last time i noticed) usually as a occupier, rather than a voluntary action with overlapping stakes & shares in a city.
1. With human religious groups getting revamped will priests in temples offer religious conversions again?
2. What intrigue quests/interactions do you have in mind for player adventurers to do with religious groups if any?
3. Will elven religion get it's own share of intrigue work? Maybe involving the closest equivalent position they have to a priest, aka druid?
4. In terms of general intrigue and plots in what ways will religious groups interact with other groups both good, evil and neutral?
I have three-ish questions.
1. How raw oriented are the new companies/religions/organizations? While I expect it is mostly hard coded, will they respect ethics and values? Like an elf company refusing to buy or sell wood, or a civilization who is absolutely disgusted by commerce completely lacking companies in the first place.
2.Would an organization that was controlled by a villain or completely corrupted by a villain's plot act villainous? Killing a villain is one thing, but killing an entire evil corporation or cult is another thing entirely.
3. In the absurd case that this does happen (potential bugs notwithstanding), could your entire fortress be roped into a villainous plot and you remain blissfully unaware?
I realize that it may be too early to say if these sorts of things will make the cut before the Big Wait, but can't hurt to ask.
1. Will villains continue doing their evil stuff after worldgen is finished? I wonder if i can start an adventurer and just pass over some villain like necromancer, will he continue doing his netbuilding/getting corpses/etc. so when i come back to this plot it would be even in worse case than when i first saw it? Will we be able to observe bandits attacking targeted people?
2. Will some villain plots be solved by someone else (at least in worldgen)?
3. You mentioned small crimes so should we expect prison/courthouse type of buildings where they will go if being caught? Or this will be worked on later in law arc?
4. Will you fix fortress retirement before the big wait?
1. Will plotting/intrigue mechanics ever be generalized and used by non-villains, for non-villainous ends?
2. I know we won't be able to go to other planes in the near future, but will there be cases where other planes can overlap with the normal world? Like a haunted area where the veil between the living and the afterlife is thin, or (in an extreme case) a throne room for a deity that (in theory) simultaneously exists in multiple planes.
First, some villain questions:
1. a) Will the intricacies of a villain's schemes depend on their intelligence, so that there's a difference between the plots of some random street thug, an experienced court spymaster and a god of deception?
b) Speaking of schemes, I remember you talking about the investigative process in the game and piquing my interest. What kind of non-verbal clues will the player be able to encounter when investigating something? Letters, out of place items, gold coins from a specific location that were used as a bribe, etc?
c) Are there any plans to improve the observer skill in the villain update? What kind of improvements do you envision?
2. Will characters that are immortal/have extremely long lifespans(elves, magical creatures, deities, mortals augmented by life-prolonging magic) that are intelligent enough potentially have schemes that span centuries until they come to fruition? Will they be able to have numerous contingencies and back-up plans in the cards if things deviate from their predicted course? In general, how complex could plots get when dealing with creatures of vast intelligence and age?
3. How will the motivations of a sapient creature of an extremely alien mindset be simulated? Things like Lovecraftian/non-anthropomorphic deities, or forest spirits, or daemon-like entities representing some obscure sphere?
Now, some questions about magic:
4. Will there be the potential for certain magical spells/actions to become relatively common knowledge (among mages, at least) but the actual reason why they work is completely unknown/misunderstood? Say, the general consensus of why tarot cards work in the world is that Mykhanor, the God of Fate, is dispensing wisdom (and this would be the knowledge the player also has, at least initially) while in actuality Mykhanor isn't even real and the work of tarot cards is actually the product of local spirits messing around with them (but almost no one knows this).
5. How would possessions work when it comes to the player? I can imagine that completely losing control of your character wouldn't really be fun, but at the same time the entity's control of you shuold be simulated in some way.
6. Will dreams be a thing? Since dreams are an extremely common source of prophecies in fantasy, I assume that at least prophetic dreams will be a thing, but what about non-prophetic but somehow relevant dreams as well?
7. Since I assume regular, run-of-the-mill legends are also planned, will sufficiently important legends be able to 'morph' with a civ's creation myth to produce some kind of hybrid?
Why are the Adventure overview improvements marked as partially done? Are you planning to rework them/do something more with them?
1.With Trading Companies, would embargos and trade wars now be a thing? Depriving an area of its trade rather than outright invading it?
2. Will plots be able to smuggle things by taking control of the companies?
Have you considered updating Mantis (the bugtracker software) to the latest version?
About magic, religion and word functioning:
Do you plan to add option for reincarnation in belief system or world functioning? If so, would you think about reusing the soul structure, or rather just make it a basis for a new one (which maybe would be more similar to real-world religions).
What about spells resurrecting people (not zombies)?
About the general stuff:
Dwarf Fortress seem to be influenced in many parts by works of JRR Tolkien, either directly or indirectly (like through fantasy games, DnD etc.). When designing current dwarves (mainly their behaviour, character and mental abilities), were you influenced by The Hobbit, where the dwarves are basically whining machines, or the similarity is coincidental? Because if it is intentional, then I must say it's spot on (a compliment). If not maybe you had that vision in the back of your mind?
How exactly are more complicated reactions going to be used during world gen?
As long as you are dragging it around, it won't be able to do anything. If you leave it on its own by command, it'll likely still sit there. The only hope would be to give it a general networking order, most likely, and then whatever skills it has in this area would come into play. I'm pretty sure people won't notice it is under your control unless I specifically code that in, since the name-command system isn't entity/civ driven. I suppose it should be controllable in party mode, though there are certain... questions there that are unresolved, and won't be until we understand magic better, at which point it becomes a more clear-cut design issue concerning loyalty/harm-to-self/etc. Hopefully it will hate you, heh. Whether that means it will try to have you killed is up to post w.g. mechanics; if you let it get off the leash, it could very well plot to have you killed, just on the general revenge principle, but it would have to have a network first, which the player might be foolish enough to give it if it proves good at that task. So, hmm, oddly optimistic here.
Supposedly they do give themselves vacations when their needs get high enough (with the exclamation point.) That doesn't address general stress level, though. We'll see how that plays out when I address social stuff more generally, before I start the magic stuff. It might be that robustly addressing e.g. the friendship issue will be mostly enough to keep the stress levels under control in a properly managed fort. But yeah, something like the old "on break" might be vaguely required... hopefully it doesn't come to that, since it is annoying for its own reasons.
QuoteSupposedly they do give themselves vacations when their needs get high enough (with the exclamation point.) That doesn't address general stress level, though. We'll see how that plays out when I address social stuff more generally, before I start the magic stuff. It might be that robustly addressing e.g. the friendship issue will be mostly enough to keep the stress levels under control in a properly managed fort. But yeah, something like the old "on break" might be vaguely required... hopefully it doesn't come to that, since it is annoying for its own reasons.
Never seen that in my own game or reported on the stress & needs thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171185.0) Toady, im quite sure that's them screaming into the wind because a particular memory has stuck to them, there aren't any states that i know of that force dwarves to relax. Checking the values in DFhack setting them to full or zero doesn't do much to deter them from the present activities they are trying to fill from trying to resolve dwarves needs.
Or have i misunderstood and this is your proposed solution @Toady?
Though funnily enough i had a farmer scream over the death of his friend in a state of emotional terror for 5 years before it drove him insane, i think i mentioned it on the original 44.12 release thread because the memory kept playing over the trauma for him which most definitely had a exclaimation mark.
Are strange moods going to be overhauled during the upcoming Myth and Magic arc?
The overall weird, buggy nature of the game is perhaps confirmation that it's just a giant trundling mess that we herd as it rolls about at this point.Instantly one of my favourite Toady quotes.
More or less agree with golemgunk here, that it's harder to take meaningful images of legends-mode type stuff -- I'll sometimes spend time reconstructing a tale from a world's legends instead, as you've read. Back when we were doing village maps, etc., it was way easier to think of screenshots to do, then I pretty much fell off there. I will try to think of it, but not sure I'll improve much there for this time. Certainly the myth/magic stuff will have more, when stuff starts getting interesting out in the world. But I'm not sure villainous plots generally will really have a lot of opportunities for a screenshot that adds anything.
Will we be able to interact with trade companies in fortress mode or are they world gen only?
On similar note, you had also mentioned priests doing similar thing in a devlog, will they travel to player fortress temples?
Quote
Quote from: Real_bang
I have some questions about new devlog (as usual at this point, sorry if im overflowing you with questions).
Will trading companies be able to open a branch warehouse in our fortress? If so will multiple companies be able to do it? Will this be the same with religion? What would be our benefit from letting them open a warehouse in our fortress? Will they build it themselves or we will have to construct it for them?
Also this one is kinda offtopic and i think its been answered here before but can Toady put screenshots in devlogs? Or site's engine wont allow it? It would be fun to look at forgotten beast warehouse administrator picture. Or at any picture related to the new things being made (especially when it comes to the big wait)
Quote from: Nopenope
Will there be trading outposts in player fortresses? Will the player be able to send their own trading outposts?
Quote from: Nopenope
Can I request that you post more screenshots of the game in your devlogs? I know sometimes you do, but I really do think it would be very helpful (and hype raising) to post more of them whenever you have an interesting feature to preview, like what you did with the myth generator.
Regarding trade outposts, ha ha, we are right on the edge of that sort of thing, suddenly! I'm not sure we'll go farther than the likely human merchant caravans being replaced by the worldgen/post w.g. historical traders, just because it's additional work on a release that has grown and needs to not grow much more. No idea on how it would work specifically if we do attempt it.
therahedwig: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7876421#msg7876421
Doorkeeper: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7876467#msg7876467
golemgunk: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7878256#msg7878256
More or less agree with golemgunk here, that it's harder to take meaningful images of legends-mode type stuff -- I'll sometimes spend time reconstructing a tale from a world's legends instead, as you've read. Back when we were doing village maps, etc., it was way easier to think of screenshots to do, then I pretty much fell off there. I will try to think of it, but not sure I'll improve much there for this time. Certainly the myth/magic stuff will have more, when stuff starts getting interesting out in the world. But I'm not sure villainous plots generally will really have a lot of opportunities for a screenshot that adds anything.
This... probably has been asked before, maybe even by myself. But I have the memory of a goldfish so I'll ask it anyway.- Based on what Toady has said about earlier ventured into graphics, it is a relief not to have to deal with it in DF, because it takes so much work to make changes that affect graphics.
Would you ever consider adding non-ascii graphics to the game, to help communicate things that would be hard to illustrate using text alone? Thinking of things like a spherical world map, for example.
Mainly asking if you consider that to be an option or if you're attached to the classic ascii. Or if it would be too annoying to implement other graphics into the game.
Why don't we ignore the gaps between tiles in a spherical world (like a disco ball)?I'm not sure I understand the disco ball reference (a very long time since I saw one), but moving one tile left, then one tile north, and then one tile south shouldn't land you in the same tile you started in, as that is rather illogical and confusing. While you can technically construct a world made out of bands of tiles with different numbers of tiles per band, not knowing which tile you end up in when crossing a N/S boundary (or E/W if you cut the world the other way), but possibly having that depend on where (in the E/W direction you leave the tile is not something that makes for a good player experience.
Why don't we ignore the gaps between tiles in a spherical world (like a disco ball)?I'm not sure I understand the disco ball reference (a very long time since I saw one), but moving one tile left, then one tile north, and then one tile south shouldn't land you in the same tile you started in, as that is rather illogical and confusing. While you can technically construct a world made out of bands of tiles with different numbers of tiles per band, not knowing which tile you end up in when crossing a N/S boundary (or E/W if you cut the world the other way), but possibly having that depend on where (in the E/W direction you leave the tile is not something that makes for a good player experience.
You may also take a look at map projection techniques to get an understanding of how every attempt to depict a sphere (which actually is a bit flattened and uneven), or other kind of curved surface, onto a flat surface is an exercise in making compromises between various goals (preserving angles, preserving area size, etc.).
I'm asking about graphics, not art. The point of adding, for example, 3d graphics to the game would not to make it look prettier, but to make it be less of a pain to display things like a sphere. It could also allow for more moderate support for art, but that's definately a side benefit here to the UI aspect. There's only so much you can show using tiles and description.Suggestions forum is what you want. (it's OK to necro one of the many graphics threads to add your technical expertise to whatever discussions have gone before).
Just in case the answer's not apparent by the end of the month, I enjoyed the live twittering of your talk yesterday, but will there be a video/audio?Answered in Toady's latest Tweet (probably not).
Will there be procedurally-generated secret handshakes?
EI you must be willingly converted into a vampire to join a vampire cult's scheme or be recruited from many of the blood drinkers hiding away in civilisations with the associated secret handshakes that come with the job.
Will the villain update change how hearthperson quests work? Like the "cause trouble" quest for bandits is one people still aren't quite sure how to solve, so will it be replaced by more complex villain shenanigans?
Nowadays dwarfs only sleep or eat in order of their own needs. They don´t seem that day/night cycle have any influence on them. There is always a constant activity in every fortress.
1- In what arc do you plan to make that almost all dwarfs dream on the night and there was silence and quiet under the moon? and what previous requisits would the game needs to have by you could implement it?
2- How do you believe that it could affect at game rythm? I sometimes imagine the possible result and I think that any construction would be slower or something like this ( I am too accustomed to frenetic life style of dwarfs, ha ha)
3- Is there any future feature waiting for night dreams or this only would change the way of tell stories? (maybe vampyrs will become more interesting than now)
And then you get to the world where your "dwarves" are maggot people digging around in the bowels of some world-sized creature.Watch out for that giant white blood cell...
Would these differing time scales between worlds actually be doable in DF? When you return to the normal world, you'd have to wait for the time progression to be calculated, which would surely take a long (real life) time. Did you think of any possible work around for this?It's been discussed in the past, yes. Skipping large chunks of time quickly, like in initial worldgen, seems to be an eventual goal (reinforced in this story, but also in the more mundane goal of "settle down, retire, play as your descendents".
In adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable?
In adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable?Above reply is for the long term, but do you just mean, "in the next release when pets are introduced"?
In adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable?It would be absolutely amazing is this is part of the next update.
In adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable?
QuoteWill we be able to ride animated undead animals, even if they haven't been tamed?I don't think undead mounts will work currently. Soulless creatures cannot accept commands, even without the issue of non-tame creatures not being mountable. It'll require a better understanding of magic to get that sort of thing working when it should.
[...]Quote2. Will the ability to command allies extend to zombies created with Necromancy?2. It isn't part of the spell, no, and souls are currently required.
For religions in the world, how expansive will the framework for that be? Will it draw a distinction between a dominant/origin/umbrella faith and religious branches/subgroups/sects/cults? Or is the plan to treat everything as an entirely seperate group?
Is there any plans to change how groups currently handle identity change? They currently seem to reinvent themselves anytime someone in charge kicks the bucket and is succeded by another member, which inadvertantly stops them from gaining a recognisable presence or legacy in the world due to the rate of turnover.
WordsandChaos, silly question, do you mean that the groups themselves feel inconsistent in their goals or that figures with fake identities do weird stuff when the leader of a group they're part of dies?
I guess, as FantasticDorf pointed out, it depends on whether the group framework is tied to the individual characters and so can't exist without them, or is rather a seperate framework in itself with slots that can be filled and emptied by characters, without needing an group member to invent an entire new group (not something I'd considered previously).
Naming continuity is something that'd be interesting to see, true. Some entities in the code retain a continuous name (like country names), while others are in flux.
If anything, it'd be neat if nations could change names after major upheaval, while stuff like criminal gangs stay static barring much greater turmoil. Groups that count as holding power in a city or country likely could remain as they are, as they SEEM to remain static so long as the current dynasty or power structure is still in place. Which means that if criminal gangs aren't adhering to the same standard (and I'm remembering right and dynasties DO preserve the name better than criminal gangs), it wouldn't be hard to make one consistent with the other.
If anything it'd be a lot like Genghis Khan, a adventurer with a inbuilt set of advantages of the player's ability takes on numerous beasts, monsters and foes and conquers a large empire before retiring it, leaving it to his children within the simulation, but soon without the adventurer's leadership the whole mighty empire falls apart quickly into a set of autonomous quarrelling states and civs like normal.
Whats your plans after the villain update hit the mark? Will you take more time improving sieges or go straight into myth and magic. Cause iirc you said that you might hold off with sieges if villains take too much timeThere's a lot of bug fixing and issues with the stress and relationship systems to fix yet, so it won't be straight into Mythgen. Probably won't know for sure until that's all finished. But yeah, would be interesting to know current thoughts on how much more of the pre-mythgen candidates are likely to happen.
I try to follow development as close as possible, but think I've missed some major news. What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?Latest comment is "not the beginning of 2019" as the current stuff (villains, stress fixes, other pre-mythgen updates if they happen including Better Sieges and Off-Site army raising/management) is due to take longer than expected.
With dwarfs stealing money, does that bring us at all closer to having an economy back?I don't think that's likely. A living world economy is a Big Wait all in itself. However...With people suffering from gambling problems now, does that mean you might just tackle the tavern games without having to wait for the economy to be reintroduced?
I try to follow development as close as possible, but think I've missed some major news. What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?The Big Wait is the period after the end of the current development arc (the villain additions ending development of significant new stuff, followed by bug fixing and balancing). During the Big Wait Toady will redesign a number of framework components (collecting a number of game save compatibility breaking changes in one go) and then build the framework for Myth & Magic (with some things using the framework, so there will be some myth and some magic, but definitely not all of it: just the beginning). There will be no DF releases during the Big Wait (unless there's an emergency release to fix some game breaking bug). At the end of the Big Wait a new DF release will be made, marking the beginning of the (first) Myth & Magic arc. This kind of long periods without and DF releases during which new functionality is developed is "normal" for DF, but what is unusual this time is that it's expected to take longer than usual (about 1-2 years) due to the volume of work to be performed. Something that's normal for a new arc is a first release that contains a lot of bugs and balancing issues, typically followed by a rapid sequence of game break correction releases followed by balancing/major issues fixing. When DF is back to sort of playable, development of new stuff (Myth and Magic contents, in this case) will take place, together with fixing of medium bugs and balancing.
With dwarfs stealing money, does that bring us at all closer to having an economy back?
I try to follow development as close as possible, but think I've missed some major news. What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?We're currently in the medium wait for the big wait. :P
Are there any corrupt activities happening after worldgen? If it only happens during worldgen, does that mean you'll eventually run out of things to blackmail people with in the world?Worldgen doesn't stop, the world keeps going on in the background while you play. It's kind of the point.
Of course there are some things that don't seem to work after initial worldgen, like artifact making (besides in player forts) so if that's what you meant (will corrupt activities stop after initial worldgen?), then, yeah, I'd like to know that too.Yeah, with worldgen I meant "initial worldgen".
5) in what way will temple profaning be linked to this new framework? I dont get it, will dwarves with villainous personalities decide they want to profane the temple to become vampires? Or will they be more likely to by accident because of their personality, and good folks less so?I assume he meant the rivalry framework, so followers of one god might profane the temple of some other god they don't like?
Or, at the very least ask them 'anything local?'. I can imagine in a world where for some bizare reason there's only one interesting thing and it's happening on the other side of the map, you'd want to be able to annoy the npcs for all the rumours they know.
That reminds me...
Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours
Fatace, don't you think the issue with the troubles isn't also that a lot of them aren't 'local'? When I ask for troubles a lot of them are across the world(Which makes 'I don't know, and I don't know anybody who could tell you' pretty infuriating too), with the exception of asking for troubles on islands.
Fatace, don't you think the issue with the troubles isn't also that a lot of them aren't 'local'? When I ask for troubles a lot of them are across the world(Which makes 'I don't know, and I don't know anybody who could tell you' pretty infuriating too), with the exception of asking for troubles on islands.
I wasn't referring to local problems compared to quests that take u across the map, I meant the info that all the locals (the townies, ect. in the area) have heard, such as going to the main big town, and finding out some of the info right away that everyone in the town, and nearby halmets have heard of.
How exactly is magic going to behave in world gen? Will shooting fireballs, for instance maybe give you a combat advantage that get's countered by fire resistance or something?
Also are we gonna be able to order our dwarves to cast certain spells through a menu?
Next devlog will be about fotf so ill ask here.I imagine the answer will look a lot like October's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7864339#msg7864339) - if there is any progress worth noting, it'll be in the devlog itself. And given that it's only been three days, coupled with the other month-end things that turn up (and corruption might not have been completely finished given Toady's wording), I'm doubtful Toady had much opportunity to work on religion changes.
Hows your progress with religion?
With dwarves getting temptations, will there be affairs and illegitimate children in this arc? Or any unfaithfulness, say for that pretty gem setter instead of their spouse?
Is there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumoursThe only thing people can lie about is their identity. Besides that, there's no false rumours.
Are strange moods going to be overhauled during the upcoming Myth and Magic arc?
Will we be able to interact with trade companies in fortress mode or are they world gen only?
On similar note, you had also mentioned priests doing similar thing in a devlog, will they travel to player fortress temples?
Just in case the answer's not apparent by the end of the month, I enjoyed the live twittering of your talk yesterday, but will there be a video/audio?
Would you ever consider adding non-ascii graphics to the game, to help communicate things that would be hard to illustrate using text alone? Thinking of things like a spherical world map, for example.
Mainly asking if you consider that to be an option or if you're attached to the classic ascii. Or if it would be too annoying to implement other graphics into the game.
About Magic : do you already have a "list" of spells you would like to be in the game (i understand all of them wouldn't be in a game, considering the way magic & myth will work, but I suppose that "magical effects" will be drawn from some kind of list, somewhere ?), and if yes, how many of them have you, yet ?
I was playing adventure mode a bit back, and went from a town to visit the nearby dwarves. The town had been recently reclaimed by a human civ, and the dwarves told me there was a criminal organisation in the town. I was confused because I hadn't seen anything like that, so I went back and into all the underground structures I could find. There, I found the criminal organisation, but they were all dead, properly buried with slabs that said how they'd died(a Roc visited about 70 years earlier, which turned the town into a ruin in the first place).
But my character couldn't tell people about what I'd just read. Even funnier, looking at the stories my character knew, it seems she already knew about the criminal organisation and that they'd died from that Roc. And telling the story didn't generate a rumour either. So I have several questions:
1. What exactly is causing this rift between stories and rumours?
2. Is that also why my character, who can read, and read that gravestone cannot gain the information that these people are already dead?
3. Do you want a bugreport for this, or is it just a case of missing features?
Quote from: Grand SageWith vampires beeing candidates for villanious plots, how will the next update affect vampire cults?Quote from: FantasticDorfI thought id follow up on the above question since the cult was brought up.
Will there be any rules on who can join particular night beast or enclosed villian network?
EI you must be willingly converted into a vampire to join a vampire cult's scheme or be recruited from many of the blood drinkers hiding away in civilisations with the associated secret handshakes that come with the job.
Will there be procedurally-generated secret handshakes?
Will the villain update change how hearthperson quests work? Like the "cause trouble" quest for bandits is one people still aren't quite sure how to solve, so will it be replaced by more complex villain shenanigans?
Nowadays dwarfs only sleep or eat in order of their own needs. They don´t seem that day/night cycle have any influence on them. There is always a constant activity in every fortress.
1- In what arc do you plan to make that almost all dwarfs dream on the night and there was silence and quiet under the moon? and what previous requisits would the game needs to have by you could implement it?
2- How do you believe that it could affect at game rythm? I sometimes imagine the possible result and I think that any construction would be slower or something like this ( I am too accustomed to frenetic life style of dwarfs, ha ha)
3- Is there any future feature waiting for night dreams or this only would change the way of tell stories? (maybe vampyrs will become more interesting than now)
1. Friendships and similar links are made during worldgen and in fort mode. Will, if we expel a dwarf, this dwarf continue creating such links in the hillocks or wherever they are?
From the devlogs(08/18) and comments by a.o. rumrusher in the adventure mode forum, I understand that one of the reasons that adventure mode skirmishes tend to be a little lackluster is because most figures in adventure mode are pulled from the entity pops and are just answering questions from a flashcard, which is what leads to all the 'I know who my liege is, but I have no opinion on them and also can't tell you where they are' because they never met their liege being fresh histfigs, and so if they see the guy attacked it's like 'I have no real opinion on this person, but that fight sure looks scary' and then they run away. And all this linking stuff is to reduce that type of response (because it would make villains inciting trouble also pretty lackluster).
2. Is it planned to have the fresh histfigs make use of all these new positions and the like to guess at how they feel about an attack or a person? Like, will a fresh peasant, who follows the god of agriculture really religiously, recognize the priest of that religion and infer they have a link? Or a weaver recognize their guild representatives and try to help them when they're in trouble? Or is this only for preexisting histfigs for now?
3. Now that such links are more important in the world sim, will we be getting information about those links being made through the rumour system. Or, to be more blunt: Will the npcs now do proper gossiping instead of just scaring each other with stories about the dragon in the cave on the other end of the world? Because I've never come across for example, them telling each other so-and-so had a baby even though that is definitely something that happens in the world sim.
4. Do you think the upcoming system would already be capable of world war 1 diplomacy cascades where one thing goes wrong and several linked entities are suddenly at war with one another?
A quick question from the Tea suggestion thread -
Will dwarves always be the primary protagonists of the game? Will they cease to exist in no magic realms? Will the name of the game change if Dwarves are deposed in such a fashion? Bonus question - What can I do to make sure Dwarves are always in the limelight, because screw playin filthy humies.
1. Will civilizations sometimes in times of war draft their citizens into the army?
2. If they do perform drafts might our player adventurers from those civilizations sometimes be drafted into the army?
3. Will the purposes of magic organizations include more things besides magic related stuff? For example in one world could a civilization have an army of war wizards?
4. If drafts are a thing that can be performed will our adventurer made hamlets eventually be able to draft citizens into our armies?
Will modders be able to create new entities like companies or guilds or at least be able to modify the existing ones to customise the names of titles and stuff like that?
Will modders be able to restrict certain civilisations from being able to found organisation entities like those?
I'm sure this one has been asked before, but:
In the latest Threetoe story it says
"They often spent years in an unbroken trance, projecting their spirits into Osoai. In that place, where lost souls swam, time passed quickly, so that during what seemed like an hour spent there, a year passed on Earth."
Would these differing time scales between worlds actually be doable in DF? When you return to the normal world, you'd have to wait for the time progression to be calculated, which would surely take a long (real life) time. Did you think of any possible work around for this?
Quote from: TownseyIn adventure mode, will creatures raised using necromancer abilities be treated as pets? Perhaps even making them mountable? Edit: I am talking about the next update which will introduce pets and parties to adventure mode, not about the long-term magic stuffQuote from: FantasticDorfQuestion building upon the one above: Will interactions with megabeasts ever be the target of villian networks. ei:such as the said necromancer building forces or hiring agents to slay a dragon so he can command and ride it personally into battle through ressurection being the cataclysmic end-goal.
For religions in the world, how expansive will the framework for that be? Will it draw a distinction between a dominant/origin/umbrella faith and religious denominations/subgroups/sects/cults? Or is the plan to treat everything as an entirely seperate group?
Is there any plans to change how groups currently handle identity change? They currently seem to reinvent themselves anytime someone in charge kicks the bucket and is succeded by another member, which inadvertantly stops them from gaining a recognisable presence or legacy in the world due to the rate of turnover.
What are your thoughts on the in-universe way the current placeholder for surnames is handled? My guess is that it's instead essentially a second given name, presumably chosen by whichever parent didn't decide their first name, or possibly a compound surname influenced by both parents in some way that doesn't yet reliably produce results logical to an outside observer, which would work very well for adapting into a proper compound surname via changing how the compound is generated.
Whats your plans after the villain update hit the mark? Will you take more time improving sieges or go straight into myth and magic. Cause iirc you said that you might hold off with sieges if villains take too much time
What is this Big Wait everyone keeps talking about? And when is supossed to happen?
Quote from: JapaWith dwarfs stealing money, does that bring us at all closer to having an economy back?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWith people suffering from gambling problems now, does that mean you might just tackle the tavern games without having to wait for the economy to be reintroduced?
Are there any corrupt activities happening after worldgen? If it only happens during worldgen, does that mean you'll eventually run out of things to blackmail people with in the world?
From your latest devlog you said that human became chief chef of the entire kingdom. Does that mean we can find him in some special place like royal kitchen actually doing his job or for now this role will be a filler for future law/economy arc?
Also does that mean that our forts will have more barony titles like the one above?
1)You mentioned gambling problems. What are dwarves actually gambling on? Can they gamble on the outcomes of WG festivities/tournaments? Or is it just abstract board/card games for now?
2) With business sabotage, is that something that can take place in fort mode by the time of this release as well? Will we have dwarves arranging unfortunate accidents for rivals? Could jealous blacksmiths try to ensure the magma forges ruin the creations/lives of the other smith or "accidentally" drop a masterwork under a drawbridge/into magma?
3) Could a greedy broker in my own fort start trying to hide my nice trade goods in his cabinets? If so, would a villainous conspirator that knew approach him and threaten blackmail? Say, could an adventurer try to use him to steal an artifact? If i found out about his secret stache of goods without a dwarf reporting him, how will i go about indicting him legally? Get the guard captain stationed in his room, or deconstruct his container, and hope they discover it? I can always throw him under a drawbridge, but thats doesnt sound like quite as much fun suddenly.
4) What all will pseudo-guildmasters be doing in fort mode? Its a noble position ive modded in in the past for the heck of it, but they never served a purpose anyway, and as we arent going so far as having proper guilds, i dont see them really doing anything nobles cant already do. Could they, for instance, meet with unhappy workers like the mayor/expedition leaders do?
5) in what way will temple profaning be linked to this new framework? I dont get it, will dwarves with villainous personalities decide they want to profane the temple to become vampires? Or will they be more likely to by accident because of their personality, and good folks less so?
5b) On the flipside of that, its always been the case that only a few deities ever have temples in the world, so the deities who have one are doing all the cursing. Will other deities get small shrines or otherwise a chance to curse people anytime soon?
One of your talks that mentioned Shadow of Mordor got me wondering. Have there been any modern games which have inspired you to add certain things to Dwarf Fortress, or to modify a feature based on them?
Quote from: Fatace[Adventure Mode related] With the next update, it seems like you will implement a lot more various types of quests other than "criminal" and "Bandit" quests. Do you have plans on revisiting on how players ask info on various quests? Seems a bit tedious when having to spam through various dialogs to get info on each set of beast, criminal, bandit, ect... location.. One world took me about 15 minutes to go through them all.. Could the idea of Notice boards or Bounty Boards be added in place of this? Such as bounty boards for beasts and bandits in certain builders or taverns, or notice board, wanted signs in the lord/lady castle area? So the player could just walk up to it and obtain the knowledge of the locals of multiple quests?Quote from: therahedwigIs there such a thing as false rumours? I know that NPCs can technically lie from previous devlogs, but I don't remember if they lied about rumours
Some months ago, I asked about prisoner management, and alternatives with intelligent captives.
Is there anything on the villain arc related to kidnapping, blackmail with captives or asking for ransom? Like asking money to someone rich, a job as guard to a captain of the guards, to start a war on your enemies to a general, king or diplomat, things like that?
Is there anything 'villainous' that can be plotted during a fortress mode game? As opposed to something you should 'just' be aware of and try to prevent?
Thanks!
How exactly is magic going to behave in world gen? Will shooting fireballs, for instance maybe give you a combat advantage that get's countered by fire resistance or something?
Also are we gonna be able to order our dwarves to cast certain spells through a menu?
Next devlog will be about fotf so ill ask here.
Hows your progress with religion?
Also i was wondering what was the hardest part to realise in villain arc so far. And have you had some annoying bugs that took much time to fix in villain arc?
1.Are we gonna get ethic conditions for dwarves that cheat on their partners? Seeing as it's something that's culturally adressed in one way or the other
2.Do you think there'll be time to add prisioners and kidnapping/ransomming missions befor the big wait?
3.The same for the medical revamping for adventure mode
1. What are going to be the physical, mental or otherwise fundamental characteristics for a creature to be ellegible as a villain? (or what characteristics will cull them from being able to?) Will kobold villains be a thing? or even ogres?
2. Likewise, what will a villain consider to add as a node for their plot? Can a werebeast get into their contacts? prehaps a tamed non-speaking creature?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7894715#msg7894715
Thanks for the answers Toady.
Im kicking myself now because i had a question (to be answered in a months time :P ) that only entered my head to ask this morning rather than last night after sleeping on it.
Will fortress dwarves with the potential for evil scheming (please excuse the explicitly specific examples but necromancer/vampire being atypical villians) use retired or abandoned fortresses as a base, or is this immunized in world generation?
These are the kinds of things players i reckon could foster on site (maybe accidently) in terms of world building, as to note its quite similar to kruggsmash's illustrated youtube series. (any wondering where the inspiration for the question came there then ) Though of course the weaponization of 100's of goblin corpses from uncleaned up seiges would mean they have plenty of ammunition and maybe be able to skip to the end of their master plan of collection in the necromancer's case.
Thanks for the Fof as always toadyI'm okay with this, but only under the condition that these tavern games provide a moddable interface that would let us program whole games inside Dwarf Fortress. :P
I think I'm being completely honest when I say that I wouldn't have a problem waiting for 2020 if we actually got procgen tavern games. And I think I'm not the only one that'd love that
Truth be told, some additions for various modding areas would actually be very welcome for the 2 year wait :P
Definitely hyped for the villains update from the devlogs you've been posting along with the talk you did at the Roguelike celebration.
I don't have anything to add to PatrikLundell, really, even with the follow-up question. We'd need a different example than a spherical world map, which isn't going to happen. That old visualizer for the underground didn't help at all, so I'm not the one to be doing it, anyway.
Probably the built-in visualizer (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Visualize) from the 40d days. As I recall, it was rather bare-bones.I don't have anything to add to PatrikLundell, really, even with the follow-up question. We'd need a different example than a spherical world map, which isn't going to happen. That old visualizer for the underground didn't help at all, so I'm not the one to be doing it, anyway.
Which visualizer are you referring to?
1. Modded instruments can have a custom description, will it be possible for all items in the futureAre you sure this isn't the case already? The wiki seems not very clear on that.
Oh hey, my first FotF-thread post, because i've got a few questions about modding and items built up:Are you sure this isn't the case already? The wiki seems not very clear on that.
1. Modded instruments can have a custom description, will it be possible for all items in the future?
2. In regards to Mythgen and items: Completely random worlds probably will have some bizarrely named equipment. How will it be communicated to the player that "zbfkl"s or whatever random jumbles of letters are infact, swords? This also extends to other things: As far as i know there isn't any indication in-game that a piece of armor is shaped, for example.
The problem about "in the future" questions is that the answer will be "Probably yes.". Toady is pretty planned out, so I assume there won't be any reworks or modding expansions until after the magic updatein 5 years.
1. Will dogs ever be able to be used for herding or have any interactions involving herding?
Along with other things
2. like smelling for creatures/things &
3. possibly to assist in plant gathering
and hunting(in ways other than just attacking such as:
4.Retrieving the kill
5.finding prey without attacking)
or for activities like
6.scaring birds(filthy thieving Keas) away
"Incidentally, Ashi's only involvement with Bunnygears was unleashing a werezebra on it, the current price of having a temple to profane. We'll improve this at a later date, he he he."
Does that mean new curses/blessings? :O
I doubt Toady would want to spoil the suprise of such a thing if it were true. ;)
Two questions
Can people "enlarge" an already existing religious infrastructure if there are more people believing in this particular god ?##
And are there several "levels" of temples, like churches vs cathedrals ?
This happened because the ruler of Bunnygears for the last 47 years has been Baroness Erab, an ardent worshipper of Ashi Mirthumber, the aforementioned god.
Bunnygears also features many small religious structures specifically related to the Fellowship of Sheens, an Ashi-focused religion that coalesced about halfway through the fifty year period we are considering.
2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.Last time it was mentioned it was said as to have been completed for the upcoming release (back when it was "upcoming"). That was starting parties, giving orders, starting pets, riding pets, starting equipment. What wasn't mentioned specifically (as I recall) was work on tactical party combat.
1. You mentioned in one of your recent dev logs that soon gods will be able to do more things for mortals than just give them vampirism, were beast ism and secrets of life in death in the new villain update that will occur before the myth and magic wait. Would our player adventurers be able to receive theses new blessings or curses from the gods? And if so how would we go about receiving these new boons or banes from the gods?
I thought the "increasing influence of deities" thing was only vaguely implied at the end of the latest devlog. Did Toady state it directly anywhere?
2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.
3. Seeing as religious groups are becoming bigger players in the villain update will our player adventurers be able to join some of these religious groups similar to how we can become hearth people for rulers? And if so will we be able to receive special religious quests from them similar to how hearth people get military quests? And if so would our player adventurer gain fame within that religious group and or getting special worldly or divine rewards?
4. What sort of plots do you think religious groups will undertake? Also would the sphere of the deity the group worships affect what kind of plots they try to pull off?
I thought the "increasing influence of deities" thing was only vaguely implied at the end of the latest devlog. Did Toady state it directly anywhere?I think people are being excited. :) 'later date' has usually meant 'I am going planning to change this, but not right now, probably in a later development cycle'.
I'll try to think up better questions later this month.1. You mentioned in one of your recent dev logs that soon gods will be able to do more things for mortals than just give them vampirism, were beast ism and secrets of life in death in the new villain update that will occur before the myth and magic wait. Would our player adventurers be able to receive theses new blessings or curses from the gods? And if so how would we go about receiving these new boons or banes from the gods?
I thought the "increasing influence of deities" thing was only vaguely implied at the end of the latest devlog. Did Toady state it directly anywhere?
No; details if any up to release still pending but he may just keep us in the dark so there's more to find later.2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.
This is still part of the current update, we can reasonably assume the work he wanted to do on it is done or they will be going back and polishing up later. If you want to direct any questions that haven't been said already at that, go ahead.3. Seeing as religious groups are becoming bigger players in the villain update will our player adventurers be able to join some of these religious groups similar to how we can become hearth people for rulers? And if so will we be able to receive special religious quests from them similar to how hearth people get military quests? And if so would our player adventurer gain fame within that religious group and or getting special worldly or divine rewards?
This is three questions (/pseudo suggestions) at once almost, so to answer broadly because im sure Toady might pick up to answer atleast one point. It all hinges on in my opinion whether sharing a common hearth with a organisation is really quite the same and gameplay engaging in terms of content to do compared to just asking for quests from significant people anyway abstract from outside it with some maybe specialised issues.
On the topic of rewards, I have no idea because it seems like Toady is a bit more preoccupied with making the shared spaces, mechanics and places work more than singular people who aren't villians right now. I can't see how being any more or less famous with a particular group in a town can really benefit you more than overall general worldy fame but it'd be a nice accented touch to have somewhere to rest rent free due to their gratitude away from your self built abode.4. What sort of plots do you think religious groups will undertake? Also would the sphere of the deity the group worships affect what kind of plots they try to pull off?
The death & necromancer religion connection is pretty much synonomous in terms of villians, i dont think Toady will have particular non-general religious organisation plots without the nessecary acting supernatural masterminds/agents to carry it out in the Magic arc, such as sealed away or awaiting ressurection gods but Toady can really answer that better.
2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.I kinda wish he had released the adventure mode party/ mount update as its own little thing beforehand. It at least sounded like it was almost done, but because of all the work on villains, we had to wait 6 months for it to be released.
I just realised the next FotF post will actually be next year already.He didn't know that at the time...
Happy new year! ;D
Hope Zach is doing alright.2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.I kinda wish he had released the adventure mode party/ mount update as its own little thing beforehand. It at least sounded like it was almost done, but because of all the work on villains, we had to wait 6 months for it to be released.
You could say Toady's in a strange mood and we're watching him grab the reagents for it in real time. XP
With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? Also would we see religion mixing so some humans would believe in dwarven gods or other things like that (if its not in the game already)?The latest dev log had an example of a site with both dwarven and human gods, and with both races having members worshiping the "other" god. Apart from that, gods are tied more closely to civs than to races, so dwarves in a human civ are likely to have human gods in addition to the human civ ethics.
With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? ...I have to assume inquisitions would have to wait until the law/status update which, if I remember right, is planned after the magic update.
With religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? ...I have to assume inquisitions would have to wait until the law/status update which, if I remember right, is planned after the magic update.
I think at most we can hope for people profaning temples and shrines of religions that they don't like. Not sure if people can dislike (and sabotage) other religions because they see them as "rivals" to their own religion in the currently developed update, but it could be using the same framework that companies use when they sabotage rival companies, so maybe. Can you maybe confirm, Toad?
Yeah, unless inquisitions are somehow needed to add extra links for villains to make their networks (which isn't inconceivable, I guess with them roaming around looking for ducks to burn) there's no real need for all the extra mechanics that would need, even if it's only going on in worldgen.
If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them
Adventurer Role: Treasure Hunter//
- Traps - Whatever comes out of mechanics (below) should occur in the sites you explore to the extent that the traps can be detected and surpassed
Improved Mechanics
- Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
- Better traps
- Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
- Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism
- Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids
- Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
- Waterproof axles through some mechanism
- Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters
Oh i see. Cant wait to see this in action (in a couple of years ofc he he).If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them
Toady's address this as being a facet of the moving fortress parts arc, where the actual mutli creature's would likely lie but also mechanically lots of other things would be explored in greater detail as to their states and movements. Here's what was said in the development goals (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
Though a lot more on the matter exists in audio and transcribed DF talks.Quote from: from development logAdventurer Role: Treasure Hunter//
- Traps - Whatever comes out of mechanics (below) should occur in the sites you explore to the extent that the traps can be detected and surpassed
Improved Mechanics
- Stone traps should require the stone be placed above the tile that is targeted
- Better traps
- Stones should be able to roll (perhaps if they are started from or land on a ramp tile)
- Weapon traps should be multi-tile and require a spring or other potential energy source -- automatic resetting should require some explicit establishment of a feasible mechanism
- Large pipe sections -- walk on them or crawl inside them, allow passage for fluids
- Moving fortress sections (lifts, crushing traps, etc.)
- Waterproof axles through some mechanism
- Rock grinders? Fans? We'll do some other machines around this time -- whichever feasible ones are the most entertaining for dwarves and treasure hunters
Will it be possible for us to "defend" goblin civs from religion a little by modding in a position holder with Religion as a workaround? Or is it not that simple?
Will religion deeply affect politics/psychology ? I think of religious wars or fights or good/bad relationships based on religious differencesReligious differences are already a cause of conflict.
I'm not sure if this verges on the suggestion-ey, but I think it's a general enough idea that it must be something you've thought about before, and I'm just curious in which ways you have considered it, and how it influences current development.
A while back now, Ultimate Ratio Regum developer Mark R. Johnson was spending a large amount of time programming in AI behaviors involving time tables for work, having farmers man the fields, guards stand guard and replace each other at the appropriate time, etc., and to have that all work out regardless of whether the player is present, absent, or appears or disappears midway through such a scene. Currently, the NPCs in Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode tend to stand around inside their homes for the most part and do nothing.
Have you considered programming in the daily lives of NPCs (in adventure mode/outside of the fortress) in terms of going to work, eating, going to sleep, etc., and if so, how do you envision this for the future? Do you think it would be difficult/straightforward/possible to make it flexible enough that every day is not necessarily the same as the last, i.e. so that it doesn't interrupt more specific behaviors that don't fall under the purview of the everyday routine (that I think are currently much more developed already)? Also, on which other features (such as the economy or other social/cultural frameworks) does it rely, as far as you can see?
Adventurer Role: Trader
* Site resources
* Villager/farmer schedules/activities
Afaik, part of the reason those villager schedules are underneath the trader role(apart from the fun task of finding that one asshole who farms pineapples), is because these schedules are probably going to be determined by what a civ requires them to be doing, which in turn is influenced by notions of property/customs/laws/economy, etc. Mechanically there's a lot of stuff that'll be opened up by the starting scenarios arc. There's for example already things like festivals/fairs and inquisitions in world gen, that do not happen in play, and fairs in particular are intended to replace the notion of the yearly caravan at some point. With that type of stuff in mind it is not unreasonable to imagine a conversion minded priest to walk onto your fortress' fairs and have them start converting. Hell, given how bards and scholars work, it isn't unlikely these priests will be able to do this within this arc, hobbling into your tavern and turning all your dwarves pious. That'd fit right into the whole linking and intrigue stuff this arc is focusing on.
I imagine the absence (mostly) of this sort of AI currently influences how you might add some things, like in yesterday's devlog (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2018-12-13) about (among other things) priests converting part of a community; I imagine that currently happens in a rather abstract manner, but once AI is more fleshed out, if it ever is, I imagine you might want to make this sort of thing more visible/make it so that it 'actually happens', so to speak. (I realize it's currently just WG stuff being described in there, so it would have to be abstract anyway, but I'm talking about when this shows up in other parts of the game.) Do you think this sort of thing is something best done relatively late (risking having to rewrite many other things that were at first abstracted) or early (risking you might not have all the prerequisite systems in place for it)? (Note that I'm not asking for a specific timetable or some such, obviously I know that's impossible to give at this point.)
Huh, you can't chop off creatures' fingers in the current release?
Yeah, I thought I pretty clearly remembered chopping someone's finger off in adventure mode recently in fact. Could be wrong, of course.
Not being able to hit a giant in the head, hitting a dragon in the head as a reaction when it attempts to bite(parrying punches or wrestles doesn't currently happen - even if it's partly sensible Edit: I mean possibility to catch the weapon instead, but that's overcomplicating Edit 2: and actually catching weapons is IIRC possible already, heh)
Yes, this is planned.Quote from: DevpageAdventurer Role: Trader
* Site resources
* Villager/farmer schedules/activities
Afaik, part of the reason those villager schedules are underneath the trader role(apart from the fun task of finding that one asshole who farms pineapples), is because these schedules are probably going to be determined by what a civ requires them to be doing, which in turn is influenced by notions of property/customs/laws/economy, etc. Mechanically there's a lot of stuff that'll be opened up by the starting scenarios arc. There's for example already things like festivals/fairs and inquisitions in world gen, that do not happen in play, and fairs in particular are intended to replace the notion of the yearly caravan at some point. With that type of stuff in mind it is not unreasonable to imagine a conversion minded priest to walk onto your fortress' fairs and have them start converting. Hell, given how bards and scholars work, it isn't unlikely these priests will be able to do this within this arc, hobbling into your tavern and turning all your dwarves pious. That'd fit right into the whole linking and intrigue stuff this arc is focusing on.
And, even in the current hamlets and towns you do see villagers heading out for a walk, going to get some water, etc. It's not much, but there's something there :p
The thing is that the laws and property stuff will do well to wait for the mythgen stuff because if you are gonna have gods walking around your world, it'd be good to have the civ's laws form opinions on those. But because the myth arc will take a long time so there's sufficiently cool stuff for gods and such to do, the villains and intrigue stuff is being done right now so players can chew on all those evil schemers in the world. That's the logic behind the ordering of the current devplan. And after that we might see expansion of these systems(more cool magic stuff, or more civ stuff for us to mess with), or we'll see work being done on parts that haven't had much attention like boats and other multitile goodness.
With all the work on religion will it be possible to choose what god your adventurer/s worships and at what "level"?
Seems more like a UI improvement since you can RNG back and forth until you get the god you want, but who knows, it might be minor enough to get picked up along the way.
Is it possible for two religions to claim the same city as their holy city?
With all the work on religion will it be possible to choose what god your adventurer/s worships and at what "level"?I wonder how the new adventure mode setup screen looks like in general. It was reworked like 5 months ago, but I don't think Toady ever showed a picture of it.
Is it possible for two religions to claim the same city as their holy city?Looks like they can at least have a temple in a holy city of another religion, looking at the maps of Rainy Sect and Fenced Faith.
Looks like they can at least have a temple in a holy city of another religion, looking at the maps of Rainy Sect and Fenced Faith.Im definitely interested in seeing if this could create something resembling a crusade.
I wonder if sharing a city is gonna create conflict between different religions. I'm guessing that would have to wait for the status update after the magic update though.
Im definitely interested in seeing if this could create something resembling a crusade.
How accurately do you plan to make the map rewrite simulate geology? The 3 yards to one vertical block scale would make it unlikely for dwarves to get to magma, so I'm assuming not that accurately, but can we expect to see proper geological folds and igneous intrusions, with accompanying rock types, as well as the sorts of structures on the surface that one would expect to see due to erosion? How about glacial deposits? Would geological ages be included in the pre w.g. myth stage?
1. Seeing as investigating villainous plots will be a new activity in the villain fleshing out update I am wondering how easy or hard it could potentially be to discover said plots. In the examples you have given the player finds out about the plot dealing with local troubles but will it also be possible to learn about plots by just walking around in town ease dropping on people? For example could you learn about a plot being conducted by the civilization's spy master by just hanging out around the castle in the center of town?
2. With religious structures getting more variety will we start seeing monasteries on the side of major roads outside of a civilization site?
3. On a similar note will smaller civilization sites like hamlets and hillocks now have the possibility of including small religious structures like shrines?
4. Currently one special purpose some religious structures can have is being a catacombs, with all the new kinds of religious structures will new kinds of religious structures with special purposes come into being possible? If so can you name a few.
Didn't Toady outright say in a recent devlog that all civilized sites now have the potential to display religious art and shrines in certain areas?Yes. Latest devblog discusses monasteries, shrines and their statues and religious art in a city (commissioned by the very religious ruler of the town).
Well, I tried, I'll wait till next month before asking more questions or until I have more material to work with.Aw, don't be sad, FantasticDorf is primarily answering your questions because it helps cut down the amount of questions Toady has to answer at the end of the month, no more, no less.
"Take these two religions, the Romantic Faith and the Adorable Creed, founded within five years of each other a century ago in the same dwarven fortress by two different prophets of the birth god Zefon. Each has only a single priest, the aged dwarf prophets preaching their own version of Zefon, but they've had impact throughout the area"Wouldn't the (chance of) melding the two prophets efforts have the potential of generating interesting emerging stories?
Fantasticdorf, are you asking whether or not rumours your dwarves hear in the tavern will be added to the civ screen? I'm asking because I sometimes have a little trouble figuring out what you are writing in your posts and I don't quite understand what you're asking there. -_-
Yes, but what is your question?Fantasticdorf, are you asking whether or not rumours your dwarves hear in the tavern will be added to the civ screen? I'm asking because I sometimes have a little trouble figuring out what you are writing in your posts and I don't quite understand what you're asking there. -_-
I was plainly stating that rumors and game information are seperate. You can know where a artifact is, but not see or reveal the site it is residing within without other non-related steps (touched upon in the hyperlink topic), to put it in a simplistic set of terms. Such as being able to see the location of a vault slab, but not 'Explore' the vault site seperately in a raiding squad.
I know news and rumors tracks rumors when you hear about them from visitors and arriving histfigs, and im not criticising that.
If i were to, say, establish a temple for one of these newfangled religions in my fort, would that count towards their advancement to the next tier of priesthood?I asked some similar questions earlier. I don't think the current fort mode temples have anything to do with religions right now, only with specific gods. Not sure if Toady is going to change that for the update.
What about deities that dont have a religion associated with them yet? What happens if i establish a temple for them?
I wonder if the alderman is the new name for guild representatives(in which case they might very much represent the modern notion of a alderman, a type of municipal council member dedicated to a specific area of government, like culture, law, etc), or just a fancy word for senior guild member.He made it sound like a pretty important title in a guild. I wonder if the name is static or if it is randomly picked like with those new random titles he added in one of the last devlogs.
A question that's probably already been asked and possibly answered in some form or another, but just in case it hasn't:
Does the (currently largely aesthetic AFAIK) value system play any role in how likely an NPC is to become a villain? For instance, I'd think a character whose values tend towards extremes might be more likely to engage in villainous behaviour.
Dwarves and others are variously tempted by e.g. the opportunity to embezzle or accept bribes using the power of their positions. If their personality and values aren't up to the challenge, they may eventually fall to temptation and undertake corrupt activities in an ongoing fashion, which will make them a target for both law enforcement and blackmail.
Pretty sure this can already happen, it's not exactly fleshed-out but in a very basic form it's possible.Yes, you can encounter them in adventurer if you're lucky. Hard to tell what's going on sometimes, but you can encounter fleeing prisoners and slaves which is fun.
Pretty sure this can already happen, it's not exactly fleshed-out but in a very basic form it's possible.Yes, you can encounter them in adventurer if you're lucky. Hard to tell what's going on sometimes, but you can encounter fleeing prisoners and slaves which is fun.
Toady removed them from sites you take over in squad raids before release because the balance isn't quite right yet (new administrators would quit almost immediately from fear of a potential revolution).
Is it possible to join a rebellion as an adventurer?I'm not sure if you can join other rebellious groups, but you can make your own by claiming a site and recruiting people for your cause.
Will there ever be such things as a rebellion? Say the citizens of a civ are upset about the way the ruler/high ranking official acts, could the civilians forcibly replace him/her? If so could adveturers join them?I believe rebellions is what cause my long time fortress worlds to crumble: The other civs just shrink and the sites they had are no longer claimed by any civ, while still being populated (and not just by 5 refugees, but by reasonable numbers of inhabitants, so they haven't been sacked). My guess is that rebellions cause sites to leave civs, and civs aren't sufficiently active to reclaim their lost sites or grab sites others have lost in the activated world.
Hm... I guess in a similar vein: In terms of corruption, are the histfigs already capable of mechanisms like nepotism/cronyism/simony where someone gets into a position due being family/buddies/benefactor of a power holding histfig instead of the usual route? Or does that require a bit more rules about how positions are obtained in the first place?
One of the things to remember about the Cisterian order is that while they had a darn lot of power, they never conceived of themselves as a corporation. The Merchant corporations in the game conceive of themselves as 'people who trade goods', and so, the monestary orders conceive of themselves as 'people who worship a deity'. I guess the only real mechanism that is necessary to get Cisterian Monks is Monks who are able to sell surplus and have mechanisms to engage in economic activity that suits their needs (like a religion focusing on merriment will try to fund bards and festivals, but might also fund mercenaries to beat their enemies, and depending on who is heading, might plan to gain funds to do this activity).Yeah, I was basically asking how big the divide between these two entity types is and if they can act in sorta similar ways or if they are very restricted in what they are allowed to do.
Will fortress dwarves with the potential for evil scheming (please excuse the explicitly specific examples but necromancer/vampire being atypical villians) use retired or abandoned fortresses as a base, or is this immunized in world generation?
These are the kinds of things players i reckon could foster on site (maybe accidently) in terms of world building, as to note its quite similar to kruggsmash's illustrated youtube series. (any wondering where the inspiration for the question came there then ) Though of course the weaponization of 100's of goblin corpses from uncleaned up seiges would mean they have plenty of ammunition and maybe be able to skip to the end of their master plan of collection in the necromancer's case.
1. How will we see NPCs reacting to player plots? Say that my character decides to make a tavern their base of operations, and uses their companions to run various schemes targeting the ruler of that same city. If I get caught somehow, will people be sent to look for and possibly kill me? Could I be minding my own business in said tavern when a squad of goons burst in looking to take me out?
2. Will Night Trolls be able to partake in villain plots?
3. Say that I decide to start assassinating high-ranking authorities of a certain religion. Will this somehow effect the game world and cause other groups to show up and fill the gap?
4. If the pre-Big Wait adventure mode medical improvements make it in, what might they look like? Could there be a hospital site where you can lay on a bed and expect treatment from nearby doctors, for example?
5. Will we be able to conquer abandoned sites any time soon? Maybe it results in some sort of bugginess but I thought it was odd that you couldn't occupy sites with nobody in them.
1. Modded instruments can have a custom description, will it be possible for all items in the future?
2. In regards to Mythgen and items: Completely random worlds probably will have some bizarrely named equipment. How will it be communicated to the player that "zbfkl"s or whatever random jumbles of letters are infact, swords? This also extends to other things: As far as i know there isn't any indication in-game that a piece of armor is shaped, for example.
3. As part of mythgen, will generated sentient creatures in high-randomness worlds wear( and will it be possible to mod) clothing and armor worn on bodyparts other than what's possible right now, where it makes sense? For example: Tail armor, Wing decorations, even actual clothing worn on the ears if the creature's ears are big enough?
4. Cursed equipment( of the unremovable variety) is a fantasy staple, will MagicGen produce stuff like this? if so, can we also expect mundane stuff that can't be easily unequipped due to whatever reason?
5. Who will villians target with their plots and schemes? Will their personality affect what they do? For example, may some villians attempt to do shady things for the benefit of their civ?
1. Will dogs ever be able to be used for herding or have any interactions involving herding?
Along with other things
2. like smelling for creatures/things &
3. possibly to assist in plant gathering
and hunting(in ways other than just attacking such as:
4.Retrieving the kill
5.finding prey without attacking)
or for activities like
6.scaring birds(filthy thieving Keas) away
"Incidentally, Ashi's only involvement with Bunnygears was unleashing a werezebra on it, the current price of having a temple to profane. We'll improve this at a later date, he he he."
Does that mean new curses/blessings? :O
Quote from: FantasticDorfInteresting new devlog, i have two questions.
I haven't seen a megabeast ruler for a while in first or thirdhand accounts of game experience, but with things considered for the villian arc and the nessecary plotting of a demon or possibly cyclops (with intelligence and power tokens accounted) will living in world religious icons of a cult have any importance to this new system, such as cyclops in power* building temples to themselves to expand influence or (followers/leaders/icons) somehow founding a mutual or one sided relationship with other related beings in spheres
* (after plotting some intricate steps to the throne like extortion and kidnap to be thwarted by adventurers or just plain duffing up and routing a town before settling their own monsterous government for desperate people and worshippers to migrate to)
Question no #2, i can't help but notice the parallel's to a Kruggsmash video in which he went over his mutual suprise how owl people migrated from the wild and joined one of his in world AI civilizations, with other factors like diety representation and relevant held beliefs* joining a civ that valued it and had a owlman faced god. Will factors like this reflect the outcome of how animal people are dispersed more actively?
* (owls often being a subjective representation of knowledge, though there are some other cultural variations, like saying pigs or hogs are attached to greed and excess, jackals or vultures to death and decay if you wanted a animal-headed egyptian like pantheon.)
It seems a bit of a bandying into the Law & Property arc if you ask me, the same way we took a fancy to the hilllock arc early in a strange tangental way, though adding token spheres onto particular animal people/animals is painless to achieve for the relevant effect of generating dieties that look like a particular form like mentioned in the above citation.Quote from: therahedwigIf I'm reading this correctly, we won't have to worry about megabeast worshippers turning into cults this arc?
The links you're creating between all of the people in the world are really fascinating. Large world Legends should be great fun to read through. How well do you think the villains system will scale down though? With a small pop pocket world, are we likely to see either no real plots going on due to a lack of links, or the opposite situation of every histfig in the world plotting against every other histfig? Or do you think it'll scale relatively smoothly?
Can people "enlarge" an already existing religious infrastructure if there are more people believing in this particular god ?
And are there several "levels" of temples, like churches vs cathedrals ?
Quote from: FantasticDorfHow do majority faiths in the rework retaliate to "heresy" and opposing sphere beliefs in town?Quote from: Real_bangWith religion being updated should we expect inquisitions in the next release? Also would we see religion mixing so some humans would believe in dwarven gods or other things like that (if its not in the game already)?Quote from: Death DragonI think at most we can hope for people profaning temples and shrines of religions that they don't like. Not sure if people can dislike (and sabotage) other religions because they see them as "rivals" to their own religion in the currently developed update, but it could be using the same framework that companies use when they sabotage rival companies, so maybe. Can you maybe confirm, Toad?Quote from: FantasticDorfWill religion have any standing to the static or variable hereditary noble positions for a requirement to holding a post/consideration of nomination?*
*- Though the latter is a slightly more fluid majority thing it would seem from our current level of information in towns, pantheons are not so clear cut as saying 'your ruler needs [RELIGION:CHRISTIANITY]' to be egible to rule as much as sponsoring a particular god higher than others.
Does the religion rewrite just apply to proper pantheons, or to any religious figure? Would elven immigrants in a human town start erecting little shrines to the nature spirit of their woods back home?
Quote from: Beag1. You mentioned in one of your recent dev logs that soon gods will be able to do more things for mortals than just give them vampirism, were beast ism and secrets of life in death in the new villain update that will occur before the myth and magic wait. Would our player adventurers be able to receive theses new blessings or curses from the gods? And if so how would we go about receiving these new boons or banes from the gods?
2. I remember a while back you were going to release an update that allowed us to have multiple party members and pets at the start of our adventures. Is that update going to be combined with the villain update? I ask this because you haven't released it or talked about it recently.
3. Seeing as religious groups are becoming bigger players in the villain update will our player adventurers be able to join some of these religious groups similar to how we can become hearth people for rulers? And if so will we be able to receive special religious quests from them similar to how hearth people get military quests? And if so would our player adventurer gain fame within that religious group and or getting special worldly or divine rewards?
4. What sort of plots do you think religious groups will undertake? Also would the sphere of the deity the group worships affect what kind of plots they try to pull off?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSo, Did you finish the tactical party combat system for Adventurer?
How accurately do you plan to make the map rewrite simulate geology? The 3 yards to one vertical block scale would make it unlikely for dwarves to get to magma, so I'm assuming not that accurately, but can we expect to see proper geological folds and igneous intrusions, with accompanying rock types, as well as the sorts of structures on the surface that one would expect to see due to erosion? How about glacial deposits? Would geological ages be included in the pre w.g. myth stage?
If multi-tiled creatures are a thing to come someday, will we see multi-tile cage traps/other means of capturing them
When I went to take a look at the Elven civ in my world, I noticed that Elves take a lot of walks, like, I've seen humans out of a stroll, but elves go out for a stroll en masse, sometimes in big groups and sometimes I would see multiple big groups at once come by.
Is taking walks an official Elven pastime or something? Or is it just a quirk of forest retreats having the residences in the air?
Quote from: FantasticDorfQuestion: With the new devlog, will there be any overlap with how holy cities/prophet mechanics can be inferred into fortress play due to how many temples are set up around the place?*
* Seems like a nice pull for a temple tourist trap, orchestrating your fortress as the spawning ground for a home-made prophet.
It seems that [POSITION:RELIGION] may be tenable for the future in playable civilisations without incurring a crash if not actually carrying gameplay i hope with the new changes too, despite the weird barely used place its in right now.
Though just to add as feedback for the devlog in general your issue around sphere competition could be alleivated by evil sphere alignment modifier's with a little bit of religious code but this is not particularly a suggestion as much as just anecdotal to myself running w.g dark fortress goblins with negative sphere pantheons without much trouble which even if demons/dark fort leaders get some form of special religion to play Pyongyang cult of personality for the future or better tying by becoming a assigned forceful self-prophet, should be resistant enough to the outside world's good spheres.Quote from: Death DragonI don't understand how religions are going to affect fort mode temples in the future. In fort mode currently, we can create a temple and dedicate it to a certain god. Is anything about that going to change with this update?
For example, can we now dedicate temples to any god and not just to the ones of our civ because of how religions aren't connected to civs? Are we going to be able to dedicate temples straight up to religions instead of to gods? Or are religious groups going to "claim" temples we built that they like?
I assume that we won't be able to assign priests to our temples in fort mode because of how priests are positions chosen by the religious group themselves, not by the fort administrators (aka the player), right?Quote from: Eric BlankIf i were to, say, establish a temple for one of these newfangled religions in my fort, would that count towards their advancement to the next tier of priesthood?
What about deities that dont have a religion associated with them yet? What happens if i establish a temple for them?
We still cant establish a prophecy and thus a religion ourselves in any way, right? But can new prophets can crop up during play? Can my dorfs become a prophet, so i can establish their temple?
And to what extent do these religious organizations interact with civ/site governments? Irl, you have things like state sponsored or mandated religions, or bans on certain/all religions, or generally disagreements between religious believers and governments, or other faiths, that dont tolerate each other. Is that possibly coming this release as well, or will we have to wait for that?
Will it be possible for us to "defend" goblin civs from religion a little by modding in a position holder with Religion as a workaround? Or is it not that simple?
Will religion deeply affect politics/psychology ? I think of religious wars or fights or good/bad relationships based on religious differences
A while back now, Ultimate Ratio Regum developer Mark R. Johnson was spending a large amount of time programming in AI behaviors involving time tables for work, having farmers man the fields, guards stand guard and replace each other at the appropriate time, etc., and to have that all work out regardless of whether the player is present, absent, or appears or disappears midway through such a scene. Currently, the NPCs in Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode tend to stand around inside their homes for the most part and do nothing.
Have you considered programming in the daily lives of NPCs (in adventure mode/outside of the fortress) in terms of going to work, eating, going to sleep, etc., and if so, how do you envision this for the future? Do you think it would be difficult/straightforward/possible to make it flexible enough that every day is not necessarily the same as the last, i.e. so that it doesn't interrupt more specific behaviors that don't fall under the purview of the everyday routine (that I think are currently much more developed already)? Also, on which other features (such as the economy or other social/cultural frameworks) does it rely, as far as you can see?
I imagine the absence (mostly) of this sort of AI currently influences how you might add some things, like in yesterday's devlog about (among other things) priests converting part of a community; I imagine that currently happens in a rather abstract manner, but once AI is more fleshed out, if it ever is, I imagine you might want to make this sort of thing more visible/make it so that it 'actually happens', so to speak. (I realize it's currently just WG stuff being described in there, so it would have to be abstract anyway, but I'm talking about when this shows up in other parts of the game.) Do you think this sort of thing is something best done relatively late (risking having to rewrite many other things that were at first abstracted) or early (risking you might not have all the prerequisite systems in place for it)? (Note that I'm not asking for a specific timetable or some such, obviously I know that's impossible to give at this point.)
On combat simulation, with upcoming mythgen overhaul, will properly simulating natural weapons be addressed? I refer to mechanic of parrying them being 1) possible and 2) handling such collisions sensibly.
Currently it's not possible to parry (only block or dodge) natural weapons or wrestling moves - and being able to cut someone's grabby fingers would make chokeholds by low-skill wrestlers so much less deadly (I'll assume a high-skill one will just abort the contact instead of getting hurt). With spell effects eventually added into the mix, not being able to parry some Vampiric or Freezing Touch (nevermind an ankle lock!) is going to become way more relevant. Especially if it might turn out to be a Wood-And-Metal-To-Pus Touch which specifically targets your protection and you'd rather be one copper sword short (if even that, in case of a narrow-scope Steel-to-Rust, or Armok forbid Adamantine-to-Coke) than lose that steel breastplate which saves you from becoming a poisoned, blowdart-riddled pincushion.
It also makes bite attacks work really weird in that you can only dodge a tiny coyote, despite such a move being dangerous to suicidal with real-life physics when fighting against larger creature. Killing a beast with a sword/spear lodged between its teeth is such a cliche anyway it should probably work for those with sufficient combat skills.
With all the work on religion will it be possible to choose what god your adventurer/s worships and at what "level"?
Is it possible for two religions to claim the same city as their holy city?
1. Seeing as investigating villainous plots will be a new activity in the villain fleshing out update I am wondering how easy or hard it could potentially be to discover said plots. In the examples you have given the player finds out about the plot dealing with local troubles but will it also be possible to learn about plots by just walking around in town ease dropping on people? For example could you learn about a plot being conducted by the civilization's spy master by just hanging out around the castle in the center of town?
2. With religious structures getting more variety will we start seeing monasteries on the side of major roads outside of a civilization site?
3. On a similar note will smaller civilization sites like hamlets and hillocks now have the possibility of including small religious structures like shrines?
4. Currently one special purpose some religious structures can have is being a catacombs, with all the new kinds of religious structures will new kinds of religious structures with special purposes come into being possible? If so can you name a few.
If we are moving past the bulk raiding/interactive civ screen arc, will you be keeping it synchronized and updated with other features you are working upon for villians onwards?
Figuring that right now we can't actually see rumored areas and sites like kobold caves unless they are revealed in other ways explicitly (answers varying from, using advanced world parameter to cheat viewing the cave, using a hearthsperson adventurer to explore on civ's behalf before embarking, or letting them steal a book to get a rough rumor co-ordinate even though this doesn't reveal the site after)
If its not a little bit too sly in saying, the function of a scout might be needed for the oversight if any villian in fortress mode you want to do anything to disrupt or break the agent network amongst your own dwarves can just hide in a lair or shrine and become untouchable while it spreads all over corrupting your population.
Is any form of sincretism planned soon either in form of outright melding of religions (of the same god or otherwise) or in the form of inclusion of some elements of a religion in others?
I mean, the number of resurrecting sun-gods that have their birthday on the 25 of december in our world is surprising.
And in your example of insignificance from 12/13/18 Current Development feed:QuoteTake these two religions, the Romantic Faith and the Adorable Creed, founded within five years of each other a century ago in the same dwarven fortress by two different prophets of the birth god Zefon. Each has only a single priest, the aged dwarf prophets preaching their own version of Zefon, but they've had impact throughout the area
Wouldn't the (chance of) melding the two prophets efforts have the potential of generating interesting emerging stories?
On the other hand:
Will there be any form of heresy included? Centrifugal forces inside religions, due to doctrinal or power sharing issues or both? If yes, will there be he chance of escalating and composing conflicts in it, getting to a reconciliation or to genocidal violence, or any point in between?
With the upcoming (ha) release of the Myths and Magic update, do you have plans to implement better awareness/simulation of body changes for magically altered creatures? As of right now, the only hint of symptoms given from magical effects are on the description screen, and usually hardly do it justice.
For instance, if a creature's body size changes because of a magic effect, can you expect to see a prompt such as 'everything seems to get smaller/larger' in the action log?
1. Can you expand some more on how vermin-sized creatures/pets work as of now? I know you can move cave spiders into a specific room in fort mode and they'll keep existing there and spinning webs. But does that already happen in adventure mode? Do they unload with the rest of the site, or can you catch cave spiders and start them spinning useless webs in your wooden tower already? Will it be different for the spiders you start adventure mode with if you get that sort of vermin pet? Your important trained spider. What about other sites like catacombs that keep track of the items you've left in them?
2. Is a vermin pet going to attack in any circumstance, on your shoulder or off, and does that mean assassins can now let a poisonous spider into a room if NPCs don't also have pets that can attack such a small creature? Can your pet-caused deaths be tracked to you as a crime, or through syndromes made by pets you own? If you dump a bunch of barrel penetrating vermin into a shop will it be recognized as the new industrial sabotage crime since those items are otherwise tracked for thefts kind of? If a cleaning ability is modded on to a vermin will it activate it, either on the ground or not? What about, say, raising the dead?
I hadn't thought of it until now but vermin are kind of overpowered in adventure mode even before this release if they're actually tracked. But I guess that's why turkeys and chickens are always around. They're very helpful always scratching in the mud. Saving lives. But if someone slipped the monastery cats some beer and they all passed out the Most Holy Sky is going to be getting replaced pretty regularly. Then Sherlock Holmes will show up and notice that the snake literally has your name on it, foiling your perfect plot.
3. Will you be able to milk a purring maggot? I guess there's more work involved in making it so you can actually get purring maggots in the first place, since they don't work right now. But if you got them, the milk is right there. Not to mention the other animals you can presumably milk.
3a. Will we be able to milk our cows? Not as important as the purring maggot, because anybody could run off with that cow, but you're going to be protecting that maggot right on your person most of the time.
4. Since adventurers are getting some medical stuff, would starting with a pet cave spider instead of, say, a sword give them one-up on bandaging themselves? I'm going to need that if I'm scratched to hell from fighting while dizzy after catching all these cave spiders
5. To expand on an old question: since we already have the carpenter's workshop in adventure mode anyway could we start making cages and caging up animals we already own? Could we dedicate an area as a zoo in our sinister bandit fort, since all these nice adventurers will be dropping by to stop us now?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerI assume the villain network map in the devblog is a new one we can export from Legends, right?
How extensive is the Legends data for villaneous goings on? Is it all accessible from Legends Mode and exportable to XML? Will we be able to check which corrupt officials brought about the downfall of our fortress in between games, or is some of the Hidden Fun permanently Hidden?
Also, come Fortress mode implementation, will firing of position holders for corrupt behaviour be simply left up to the player to implement, or will authority figures amongst the dorfs decide for us? Can nobles like barons be stripped of their rank by the mountain home in a similar way (in worldgen and within a player fortress)?
Finally, in the devblog you mentioned that:
"Earthhells tried to get her mother the militia commander to join up, but she was having none of it and never trusted her wayward daughter again."
Is that an actual thing (grudges/bad relationship forming due to failed corruption bids) or just a story embellishment?Quote from: bleuxI found it interesting how Aban tried to convince many of her familly members to crime, maybe because her familly mostly got on board, or maybe because Aban received no backlash at all from her familly. Thus, I would like to ask:
Can talking people into crime go wrong in the sense of screwing up relationships? So a friend or familly member may not be talked into crime after a bad conversation, as their relation has turned stall due to it.
Do the guildmasters have generated position titles too? If so, are they based on the type of guild?
From the latest devlog:
"Lomoth, fond of scheming and idly wishing to become wealthy and powerful ..."
"Aban was an extravagant sort, and given to flights of fancy, so ..."
"... Earthhells was able to play on her father's bond of love as well as his greed."
Will these bits of explanation be listed in the information in legends mode or did you only get them through your debugging tools?
1. Will sufficiently successful schemers and network-builders sometimes try and weasel their way into positions of official power? For example, the blacksmith in the latest story trying to become the 'royal goldsmith' or something like that, and having direct access to more powerful people, as well as opening doors to further advancement.
2. Assuming that villains will try and hoard artifacts (if their beliefs are appropriate), how will they store them if they don't have some kind of 'lair' (castle, for example)? Again, let's take the blacksmith as an example - if she stole some artifact sword through her network, would she just plop it down in her small house and forget about it?
3. Is any kind of simple economic stratification planned for the villain release? Nothing impressive, as I realize that the bulk of the more complex work is reserved for the law arc, but at least having affluent people have more impressive abodes, clothing, etc. It would somewhat tie into the villain system - i.e. impoverished folks being more susceptible to paltry bribes, villains working their way up into a more ostentatious lifestyle, nobles having nice homes in cities, castles/fortresses being various levels of extravagant based on the prestige and wealth of their holder, etc.
4.There were mentions of there being a setting for the 'bleakness' of the world. I can see how such a setting would affect the magic of the world, but will it also significantly affect the non-magical components of the world as well, such as civilizations being harsher and more xenophobic, people in charge tending to be more ruthless and amoral, natural savagery being higher on average, etc.?
1. Will religious art commissioned for temples just be art depicting the past actions of a deity or any scene involving them?
2. If our bone carving adventurers create figurines depicting a deity would followers of that deity recognize the art in question as religious?
3. Would pieces of art depicting a deity be more valuable trading wise in a holy city dedicated to that deity?
4. With prophets being able to convert large portions of civilizations will religions themselves gain their own sets of values like civilizations have? This could make for some good religious civil wars.
Does the (currently largely aesthetic AFAIK) value system play any role in how likely an NPC is to become a villain? For instance, I'd think a character whose values tend towards extremes might be more likely to engage in villainous behaviour.
Will there ever be such things as a rebellion? Say the citizens of a civ are upset about the way the ruler/high ranking official acts, could the civilians forcibly replace him/her? If so could adveturers join them?
I wanna sneak in another question because I saw an interesting documentary about the cistercian monk order some days ago:
The cistercians were (and still kinda are, I guess) a monk order in medieval Europe who started out as very strict, chastely, self-contained monks, but as they expanded more and more, they started producing a surplus of resources, which they then exported and sold for profit, instead of just being self-sufficient. They eventually turned into a profit-oriented megacorporation that spread "franchise" monasteries to almost all of Europe and made so much money that they could fund the Knights Templar, leading to the Second Crusade. (Most of their wealth originates from the fact that they exploited cheap labor, but that's a whole other topic.)
With the current way monastic orders and corporations are implemented, would it be possible for a monastic order to develop itself into something similar to a corporation, or are they two separate types of entities that make use of different types of tools and actions? Mainly, what I'm asking is, could a monastic order become a profitable producer of goods and expand to other locations similar to a corporation?
In the last devlogs I only saw you mention monasteries needing funding by other factions to expand, so I'm not sure if you at all planned for this to be possible. There's something to be said about keeping them as separate, distinct entities. It would be less realistic, but probably more game-like. But I guess it would make sense if for example a monk order who worship the god of wealth would somehow also be a wealth-accruing business.
I know this mostly doesn't matter until we actually have the economy update, but there was a bunch of work done on these kinda entities in the villain update.
With the new embezzlement system, what happens if I have a civilization that does not have any money to embezzle? Do they steal imaginary money or does the system switch to embezzling other valuable goods or does no embezzlement happen without actual money?
In terms of corruption, are the histfigs already capable of mechanisms like nepotism/cronyism/simony where someone gets into a position due being family/buddies/benefactor of a power holding histfig instead of the usual route? Or does that require a bit more rules about how positions are obtained in the first place?
1. They are subject to item rules (sadly for them), but they are also stored as a vermin event if they are freely roaming. I'm not sure how that interacts with save/load; badly I expect. I suspect vermin-sized pet owners should keep them nearby or in a safe spot. You can drop them and pick them up from the ground, and it maintains their pet status, but offloading them is trickier, if they aren't in a container. It would be nice if they could run around the home when you are away, but that'll have to be a specific fix.
Yes. We some additional group/state-level mechanics to make it really feel that way in a dynamic and responsive way, but the temples and highest priests can be there and there's some passive back-and-forth in the infrastructure and conversion counts and some interpersonal stuff.There's a word missing here. I assume it's supposed to mean "We need some additional..."?
So are Pews, Prayers Mats, and Priests (to replace or work with the entertainer) coming with this release?
So are Pews, Prayers Mats, and Priests (to replace or work with the entertainer) coming with this release?
Questions directed at Toady in lime green please :) unless you're just asking rhetorically or to other people in the thread.
Thanks for the replies ! Now a new question :Probably time dilation, much like everything else. Say, "Magic Missile" takes 5 seconds to cast in advmode, but it takes a few days on the calendar to cast in fortmode. But since everything else also moves many times slower (including whoever/whatever you are casting the spell on), the delay won't feel overly long or short.
About magic, how do you plan to manage spell duration between adventure mode and fortress mode ? (i mean, spell which will last days/weeks/hours, for instance)
I imagine some spells can't be dilated though, you can't have a curse being shortened just because the cursed enters your site, unless you have some anti-curse field set up, of course. Some spells will have to rely on in-game ticks for the duration (as do combat moves, I imagine these are more instantaneous ones), and some on actual in-game time (curses, long rituals, very gradual transformations/corruptions).Thanks for the replies ! Now a new question :Probably time dilation, much like everything else. Say, "Magic Missile" takes 5 seconds to cast in advmode, but it takes a few days on the calendar to cast in fortmode. But since everything else also moves many times slower (including whoever/whatever you are casting the spell on), the delay won't feel overly long or short.
About magic, how do you plan to manage spell duration between adventure mode and fortress mode ? (i mean, spell which will last days/weeks/hours, for instance)
So, can players/adventurers join the villain organizations?It's been answered, yes.
So, can players/adventurers join the villain organizations?They can be villains with the new party system as you'll have access to villainous commands. But remains to be seen if you'll actually be able to join an existing villain's scheme.
You answered it, no further details:So, can players/adventurers join the villain organizations?They can be villains with the new party system as you'll have access to villainous commands. But remains to be seen if you'll actually be able to join an existing villain's scheme.
-- edit
Unless Kittytac knows better? Quote on that?
Will we be able to play villains?Yes. Isn't that in the devblog already? Has been covered in fotf at least. You can give orders to your party members, which can be of the villanous kind. So essentially you can set up a bandit camp and play warlord.
That's you being a villain yourself.You answered it, no further details:So, can players/adventurers join the villain organizations?They can be villains with the new party system as you'll have access to villainous commands. But remains to be seen if you'll actually be able to join an existing villain's scheme.
-- edit
Unless Kittytac knows better? Quote on that?Will we be able to play villains?Yes. Isn't that in the devblog already? Has been covered in fotf at least. You can give orders to your party members, which can be of the villanous kind. So essentially you can set up a bandit camp and play warlord.
Thanks for the replies ! Now a new question :Probably time dilation, much like everything else. Say, "Magic Missile" takes 5 seconds to cast in advmode, but it takes a few days on the calendar to cast in fortmode. But since everything else also moves many times slower (including whoever/whatever you are casting the spell on), the delay won't feel overly long or short.
About magic, how do you plan to manage spell duration between adventure mode and fortress mode ? (i mean, spell which will last days/weeks/hours, for instance)
Note that time scaling between the two is pretty screwy, and you need a DWF_STRETCH of 72 for things to behave sanely: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10604 (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10604)
Quote from: Falcc5. To expand on an old question: since we already have the carpenter's workshop in adventure mode anyway could we start making cages and caging up animals we already own? Could we dedicate an area as a zoo in our sinister bandit fort, since all these nice adventurers will be dropping by to stop us now?
5. Getting closer! I haven't added new designations or reactions, but with pets going, things slowly begin to make more sense until they happen.
¿Are these locations going to be revisited to improve their looks and layouts? and ¿Is there (going to be) a way to mod worldgen to 'inject' player blueprints into worldgen?
Other players have pointed the beautiful work made in Mark J Rohnson's Ultima Ratio Regum maps and buildings. Currently, Dwarf Fortress worldgen creates, let's say, less beautiful buildings.URR is very pretty indeed, but the reason for that is because the dev put a much greater emphasis on the aesthetics than on actual gameplay systems. Like you said, it hasn't been playable for years and will probably continue to be "just" a pretty world generator for a long time. It's kindy funny because the focus in DF has always been the opposite way, prefering the actual game mechanics over visuals (although the pretty quest log that was added to adventure mode some months ago makes me think Toady does feel like prettying up the game a little more nowadays).
¿Are these locations going to be revisited to improve their looks and layouts?Like Fantastic said above, the short answer is "yes". On the dev notes you can see that even for this updates there are some location reworks planned:
¿Is there (going to be) a way to mod worldgen to 'inject' player blueprints into worldgen?I've asked this in one of the last FotFs:
I have been away for a long while. Is there any estimate on when the next update is coming (beside soon) and what it will entail? Because for last couple of years there used to be an updated almost every month, but now there was none in half, and if there is a bid updated around the corner i'd rather wait.
Raiding Arc (done) <-> Some Improvements/Bugfixes (done) <-> Villian Arc (in development) <-> ((improvements to that) <-> (???) <-> ((beginning of the Magic Arc)) <- 1 year -> rest of the devgoals, likely law & customs
Hang on... Are you saying there is some sort of rhyme and reason to when we can expect a devblog? I know the FOTF is montly, but i just went and checked for devlogs daily, hoping for an interresting read...It's essentially weekly. Has been for years. Travel and Christmas (and food poisoning) generally cause a break. End of the month is a fotf reply and Bay12 Report so they tend to be combined. It's not a definite thing but that's basically it.
@Shonai_Dweller: My comment wasn't actually aimed at your post, but rather FantasticDorf's quote of an unspecified source. I agree it's rather likely Toady is aiming at entering the Big Wait well before a year has passed for the Villain semi-arc.Oh, OK, I see
I have been away for a long while. Is there any estimate on when the next update is coming (beside soon) and what it will entail?I'm betting on March-April, depending on how much trouble Toady runs into post-worldgen.
Well, gotta ask this one (just regarding the villains release):Shonai, as in a group of dwarves seizing power by occupying the noble positions? I think that seams fairly out of the question, seeing as nobles are basically appointed by the player right now. Maybe there could be done something with the monarch or the baron, but unless its a game-ender, i doubt it.
Fortress Mode coups? Yea? Nay? Maybe?
Unless of course your talking about gaining control of another site in Fort mode by arranging a coup, that seems plausible.
Shonai, as in a group of dwarves seizing power by occupying the noble positions? I think that seams fairly out of the question, seeing as nobles are basically appointed by the player right now. Maybe there could be done something with the monarch or the baron, but unless its a game-ender, i doubt it.It's already planned and been talked about by Toady as a solution for bad management beyond stressed dorfs and tantrums. Just wondering if it was coming with this release.
Unless of course your talking about gaining control of another site in Fort mode by arranging a coup, that seems plausible.
Well, of the two of us, you seam to remember these things best, but IIRC the only issue in insurrections was that they were happening to often and Toady ran out of time to fix it. I dont know the underlying issue of course, so it might not be as simple as i make it sound ;)Yeah, that was pretty much it. Seems easy enough to tweak. Maybe. :)
It's already planned and been talked about by Toady as a solution for bad management beyond stressed dorfs and tantrums. Just wondering if it was coming with this release.What would it actually be like? A game over state or just some "so and so has seized the position of mayor"?
No idea, it's still in the 'musing' stage as far as I know. I suppose it might be a game over. With magical accidents and eath-shattering events on the way, the opportunity for game-over levels of Fun is increasing, so this might be one. There would have to be early warning signs and ways to make it preventable if addressed early enough of course.It's already planned and been talked about by Toady as a solution for bad management beyond stressed dorfs and tantrums. Just wondering if it was coming with this release.What would it actually be like? A game over state or just some "so and so has seized the position of mayor"?
I don't know. It doesn't really sound nice as a game over condition to me. Every other game over state happens when you completely run out of citizens and then lets you reclaim the fort again afterwards, but this one would end with there still being population. Would that then prevent you from reclaiming the fort? If you could just resume control over the fort right afterwards with no real change besides the position of mayor or whatever, then what would really be the point of sending you back to the menu? And like you said there would have to be some warning signs in some way to prevent people from being cought off guard by a sudden coup related game over.No idea, it's still in the 'musing' stage as far as I know. I suppose it might be a game over. With magical accidents and eath-shattering events on the way, the opportunity for game-over levels of Fun is increasing, so this might be one. There would have to be early warning signs and ways to make it preventable if addressed early enough of course.It's already planned and been talked about by Toady as a solution for bad management beyond stressed dorfs and tantrums. Just wondering if it was coming with this release.What would it actually be like? A game over state or just some "so and so has seized the position of mayor"?
If you could just resume control over the fort right afterwards with no real change besides the position of mayor or whatever, then what would really be the point of sending you back to the menu?
I don't know. It doesn't really sound nice as a game over condition to me. Every other game over state happens when you completely run out of citizens and then lets you reclaim the fort again afterwards, but this one would end with there still being population. Would that then prevent you from reclaiming the fort?You would start a new fortress nearby, send a squad to kill the new rabble and take over it again. Or start a revolution there with agents, or kill everyone with an adventurer...
Or maybe a coup could end up with the game informing you that a different group has taken over the fortress with the implications for military/nobles/etc.
So there have been attempts, in the past, to host Dwarf Fortress on a server.
In other words, one server, and many clients. One of which is the current player.
Would you ever support multiplayer of this kind?
It's one of those things, that would revolutionize the making of Dwarf Fortresses.
But on the other hand it could be considered heavy bloat,be too complex to integrate,
or force the building of the client around a specific structure, slowing dev time.
Moreover, abstraction of the interface, if thorough enough, would also allow this.
You should probably define what you mean to get a more concrete answer. Dwarf Fortress already supports multiplayer through making save files sharable and having it's own dedicated file server.So there have been attempts, in the past, to host Dwarf Fortress on a server.
In other words, one server, and many clients. One of which is the current player.
Would you ever support multiplayer of this kind?
It's one of those things, that would revolutionize the making of Dwarf Fortresses.
But on the other hand it could be considered heavy bloat,be too complex to integrate,
or force the building of the client around a specific structure, slowing dev time.
Moreover, abstraction of the interface, if thorough enough, would also allow this.
Hate to be blunt, but making adventure mode into an MMORPG would ruin it for me utterly. Hope it never happens.It's not like you'd be forced to play with other players.
Hey Toady, concerning the ever shifting balance of stress mechanics, have you considered or made use of simulative models to identify whether dwarven stress can be managed at all, or is too easily managed given various time (time spent walking, sleeping, entertaining, etc), and quality of life (death of loved ones, isolation or existence of loved ones, wealth, fed levels, etc) budgets? If not, how do you establish estimates of whether dwarves can or shouldnt be able to furnish their unmet needs based on the situation?Don't forget that Toady wouldn't have taken into account the bugs (relationship forming not working as expected, stress still stacking despite thinking that was addressed) since if he knew about them they wouldn't exist, and not yet implemented features (adventurers need for romance, family, etc, dorfs need to wander/be with off site family without there being currently a way to leave sites voluntarily yet).
but will the fortress's (in fortress mode) own presence as a plot actor to hire a assassin on payroll, could fufill a purpose of 'evening the field' versus very strong and at the moment difficult to take down opponents like immortal tacticians and supernaturally strong defenders?I'm guessing we won't be able to hire assassins in fort mode as long as there's no post worldgen economy, but military squads sent out on assassination missions will hopefully be able to do that.
Great to hear that Zach is through his surgery!The noble General Mafol wasn't a villain. The idea is that all position holders (from King to Bookkeeper) may or may not be corruptible (and are increasingly less accessible the higher ranked that they are). So, no, not all leaders will be villains. But a lot might, especially ones with naturally villaneous traits (like a lot of goblins, possibly?). That's why so many more positions were made, to ensure a good pool of possible network members.
I really like how your writhing up the story as you read it, it was very funny. However, the devlog stirred up a couple of questions:
It seems all major position holders (kings, druids ect.) are also villains. Is this intended behaviour or just the effect of something, that isn't implemented yet, and will it stay that way in the release?
thx in advance, and thx for an awesome devlog!
I am not sure if this was asked before, but how many of these new noble positions will we see/be able to appoint in Fort mode?Don't know for sure yet, but I don't think the new positions will be player appointed. They are all related to the civ itself or to new entities like religions, guilds, etc.
2. In the recent story you posted a lot of land holding nobles were mentioned. Will the land they hold actually exist in that we could visit it? Also how big and how small a parcel of land could a noble hold? Would it have to be at least as big as a site or could they hold a subsection of land within a site?
Spoiler: "Image for clarification's sake" (click to show/hide)
That's you being a villain yourself.You answered it, no further details:So, can players/adventurers join the villain organizations?They can be villains with the new party system as you'll have access to villainous commands. But remains to be seen if you'll actually be able to join an existing villain's scheme.
-- edit
Unless Kittytac knows better? Quote on that?Will we be able to play villains?Yes. Isn't that in the devblog already? Has been covered in fotf at least. You can give orders to your party members, which can be of the villanous kind. So essentially you can set up a bandit camp and play warlord.
There's nothing about joining another villain's organization yet. As far as I know.
"Snang still carries it."
Does this mean that, now, artifact armors or weapons are actually used and "seen" by people, and considered as armors or weapons, and not just "treasures to be stored/displayed" ?
Do they not currently get the title "lord" in Adv. mode? I thought they did, since they can appoint hearhpersons.Lords are a completely different type of Noble from a Baron. Barons are dwarven positions. The humans have lords and such.
Hang on... Are you saying there is some sort of rhyme and reason to when we can expect a devblog? I know the FOTF is montly, but i just went and checked for devlogs daily, hoping for an interresting read...
Do they not currently get the title "lord" in Adv. mode? I thought they did, since they can appoint hearhpersons.Lords are a completely different type of Noble from a Baron. Barons are dwarven positions. The humans have lords and such.
And by extension, your little adventurer sites are proly not making you landholder because the civ entity is proly not smart enough to understand how land ownership works because... it is a type of resource and thus related to economy and law/property/customs. That said it'll be interesting to see when that comes in. Getting assassins because a Baron has decided your site is where they want to chuck down their castle.
11 was in a lot longer and is unlikely to be further developed(they're part of worldgen festivals), 2 was asked about already and that it needed a better handling of mounts first.
5 is explicitely the point of this devarc. 8 Already exists.
9. I don't think we'll see the reason for friendships forming on the relationship screen, so the only thing that'll happen is that people show up as friends to begin with when they come to your fort, much like how families work. (Though it'd be nice to have it be discoverable somehow during fort mode play)
13 to 16 are very likely not to show up, as they're the definite bloat of this worldgen stuff :p
rest: No idea :p
Yeah, therahedwig's point on motivation is the important one. Here, the monks don't engage actively in account building activities, and they aren't generally position holders (if I recollect, being a monk and a position holder in some other entity are mutually exclusive, but I might be wrong.) Now, if we tracked the regular economic activity and impact and resources of subgroups, we could do more here. The merchant companies and guilds are special examples which have small placeholder mechanics to build entity accounts on top of member accounts. Not sure quite what else we'll get as I finish up the villains.
9. Advanced friendships (people becoming war buddies or childhood friends in your fort, or war buddies/childhood friends arriving together as migrants, etc)I don't think they actually are "advanced". It's more the opposite, the childhood friend/ war buddy stuff are basic conditions that spawn friendships during world gen to create more links between people for villains to abuse. In fort mode friendships can come up potentially all the time, not just in those predefined situations. I guess he could make friendships that are formed between children and between squad members show up as "childhood friend"/ "war buddy" in the relationship screen, but that sounds like a bunch of extra coding for a tiny amount of extra flavor though.
from readng the devlog, im fairly sure that 14 and 15 are already done or partially done, and will be in the next update.Prophets actually already come to your taverns as visitors, so that bit at least is done.
1. Right now, villains seem to be largely of the "conniving schemer" varietyHapchazzard, did you forget to write your question here?
from readng the devlog, im fairly sure that 14 and 15 are already done or partially done, and will be in the next update.Prophets actually already come to your taverns as visitors, so that bit at least is done.
Religious conversion isn't likely before Mythgen though, I imagine. Remember nothing has been done in Fortress mode yet. So while you may get a migrant/visitor who was converted to a religion once someplace else, that's different from an actual mechanic in which a priest approaches dorfs in a player tavern and converts them through whatever means they have. And whatever reactions dorfs may have to such attempts.Quote1. Right now, villains seem to be largely of the "conniving schemer" varietyHapchazzard, did you forget to write your question here?
On the other hand, depending on how much justice is fleshed out you might just instead capture bandits and bring them to a jail?
BTW: Guys, the devpage got updated. 'Assassinations of position-holders' is now purple ;)
Though i haven't seen any form of bandit/hostile small group related behaviour since hyena-men livestock raids in version 30. therabouts nor do i make a compulsive habit of settling too close to bandit egible civs, being a bandit themselves isn't nessecarily a crime, and at present you can't forcibly arrest people who haven't been reported to the authorities unless you catch them in other ways like traps.The question was about the quests you get in Adventurer to clear out bandit camps. It may not be a crime, but it is an order. One which can't be fulfilled right now. Would need to add use of restraints (tie them to a horse?) for a start.
With bandits receiving bandit forts and bugs being fixed will we be able to finally complete quests on destroying bandit camps? Same goes to criminals in town catacombs
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do social skills (other than Pacifier, Consoler, Judge of Intent) have any gameplay effect in fortress mode?1; negotiator, intimidator and persuador all supposedly affect brokers in trading.
(for what it's worth, the wiki states that it is unclear what they actually do)
Are "giant sleeping monsters that are so massive they act as map features", or severed body parts thereof ("The left eye of Thatakeus" or whatever) on the table for the myth and magic release?
Also I've been looking at vermin code a lot and it looks like a few kinds can attack (like bees) but most don't. Is there any reason mosquitos don't bite, even without the bloodsucker effect? Would it be traumatizing to dwarves to be bit by a vermin they don't like, or not any moreso than being around the vermin?
Odd iirc. bees do sting and most dorfs dont mind that. [...] Ok like i thought. The Mosquito actualy lacks an attack token in its raws. Bees for example use "VERMIN_BITE" which as far as i see not in the Mosquito description..... maybe a bit of the Vampires bloodsucking could help here?Probably has something do with the fact that there are mosquito men, but no bee men.
Do big villaneous networks persist after the bad guy at the top is dead?I'm pretty sure the answer was "Yes, to the extent it makes sense."
Do big villaneous networks persist after the bad guy at the top is dead?Yeah pretty much what Bumber said.
Are there raws for the new stats like loyalty, intrigue, etc for our custom civs?Well, loyalty is already modable with entity values and as far as I remember intrigue is actually a skill. I'm thinking that for the most part, the new villainous and corrupt activities make use of the values that we already have mod access to.
Are there raws for the new stats like loyalty, intrigue, etc for our custom civs?Well, loyalty is already modable with entity values and as far as I remember intrigue is actually a skill. I'm thinking that for the most part, the new villainous and corrupt activities make use of the values that we already have mod access to.
In world generation and out of the play area, certain parts of schemes have to be abstracted, so we'll likely have a new skill along the lines of 'intrigue' which will determine certain success rates and so on, and we might find some use for it in play as well. The ambitious and/or cruel people with a knack for intrigue will be the successful villains, along with those that have game-systemic advantages (like a demon or necromancer, or a monarch.)
I know there's no way for us to pay them without a proper economy, but can the player in any way interact with these new mercenary companies in fort mode?"Get attacked and killed" seems one likely way. :)
That would be sweet, yes. Hope they get some special announcement message when they arrive, so you know that it's a merc company attacking you, not just some random army.I'm wondering if they would come by themselves, or if they'd tag along with regular armies. Or both I guess.
Toady's said before that right now everyone just keeps track of their accounts during worldgen, but aren't really using coins and the like in play. He hasn't said whether they'll be able to make accounting decisions in the post worldgen yet.Why not play it and regen it when the new version comes out?
Though, it seems this devlog does answer the question a few pages back about bandit groups. Presumably, like merchenaries they'll be able to disband properly when everyone's dead(or terrified out of their minds... or broke, apparantly :D).
Also, Dwarf Fortress: Assassin's Creed, anyone? It's gonna be fun to frolic around in adventure mode coming release. I am half wondering if I should take the world I have now and regen it with the coming version or whether to try and continue playing in it and see what happens.
Well, I've been playing it for a long while(I tried to get really familiar with it, now I'm almost 50years post worldgen in it), so I'm thinking like, maybe I should just keep playing it when the new version comes out and see the AI take advantage of all the new mechanics, or regen it and see how the world's history would be different when the AI has access to all the villainy to begin with... Maybe I should do both and make a report ;)Yeah, with world activities(http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_activities) things get complicated, while you are playing it is more complex in some ways and less complex in other ways and not everything in legends mode has been moved to world activities yet.
Of course, this relies on the new version being save compatible. The only thing I can foresee not being save compatible is if the interrogation and execution stuff is going to require new types of tools and furniture(because the entities would otherwise not be able to access those features).
6. Does the abstracted "personal account" manifest in the world in any way, even if said manifestations are entirely arbitrary? IE: The hearthpeople of a rich lord being better equipped in general?Something along these lines came up in the latest dev blog, so I should probably change this question:
The new mercenary company stuff is hella cool, but I have a few questions.Well, we travel around getting missions from hearths and we'll have more defined parties, who presumably will have tracked reputation. So, founding a merc group is pretty much all there already. I guess the opportunity to define exactly what kind of group you are for a neat Legends entry would be nice (and the chance for your party to carry on as mercs after you die, I suppose).
How will players be able to interact with the mercenary groups in Fortress Mode?
In adventure mode, will we be able to join them or found our own?
The new mercenary company stuff is hella cool, but I have a few questions.Well, we travel around getting missions from hearths and we'll have more defined parties, who presumably will have tracked reputation. So, founding a merc group is pretty much all there already. I guess the opportunity to define exactly what kind of group you are for a neat Legends entry would be nice (and the chance for your party to carry on as mercs after you die, I suppose).
How will players be able to interact with the mercenary groups in Fortress Mode?
In adventure mode, will we be able to join them or found our own?
--edit
Hmm. Or not, I guess. They don't automatically give missions to anyone, do they? I forget.
Artifacts have gotten a lot of love with the update, and look like they're going to get more during the magic update. Related to artifacts, are there any plans to make the properties of procedurally generated megabeasts carry over into the materials they leave behind when they die or are butchered? Similarly, might bronze colossi and dragons leave behind less mundane materials?You might want to post this in the Suggestions forum too. Over there it'll be noted in Toady's Suggestion file. Here it might get answered this week, but will end up forgotten in a few years when such things are actually being considered.
It would be very neat for it to be possible to create artifacts or special/artifact items out of the remains of megabeasts, i.e. Leather armor with some of the material properties of brass from the skin of a Titan with small brass scales. I'd love to see a heirloom suit of armor made from the scales of a dragon someone's great-grandfather slew.
Got a question from Kram1032's comment on Kruggsmash's latest video:Drinking alcohol automatically defaulted to "a mug's worth of alcohol", since that's all that should have been possible. Cats would lick their paws and immediately suffer the effects of downing a mug of ale. Not good a couple of times in a row.
What exactly did you change to fix the notorious bug that caused cats to die from alcohol poisoning after cleaning themselves? Did you change the amount of content there is in spatterings/smears of contamination in general or did you just change something about how it relates to body size?
The question came up because a well filled with vampire blood contaminated water didn't seem to infect people who drank from it and the comment assumed that it might be related to that bug fix.
Not calling it a bug though. I assume it just means that you require a higher concentration of vampire blood in the water in order to infect people.
Got a question from Kram1032's comment on Kruggsmash's latest video:Was the well constructed with vampirism spreading in mind? If I understand it correctly, the water would have to be drawn from a contaminated tile, and if the well is two Z levels deep the water would be drawn from the clean upper tile, not the contaminated tile at the bottom (which is also laced with mud, of course).
What exactly did you change to fix the notorious bug that caused cats to die from alcohol poisoning after cleaning themselves? Did you change the amount of content there is in spatterings/smears of contamination in general or did you just change something about how it relates to body size?
The question came up because a well filled with vampire blood contaminated water didn't seem to infect people who drank from it and the comment assumed that it might be related to that bug fix.
Not calling it a bug though. I assume it just means that you require a higher concentration of vampire blood in the water in order to infect people.
Was the well constructed with vampirism spreading in mind? If I understand it correctly, the water would have to be drawn from a contaminated tile, and if the well is two Z levels deep the water would be drawn from the clean upper tile, not the contaminated tile at the bottom (which is also laced with mud, of course).Yeah, there was only 1 water tile in the well and it had a "smear of blood" contamination in it. Apparently wasn't enough to turn people into vampires though.
So are Pews, Prayers Mats, and Priests (to replace or work with the entertainer) coming with this release?
About magic, how do you plan to manage spell duration between adventure mode and fortress mode ? (i mean, spell which will last days/weeks/hours, for instance)
Q: Are you still quite fond of that mini-game concept for animal taming if time allowing, you roll around to having adventurers lock up animals in cages?
Q: Will we see any more mini-games sub-activities that aren't explicitly 'games' per say (dwarvish backgammon in the tavern) but rather game-ified actions for the player's enjoyment?
With the coming releases will adventurers be able to enjoy sleeping in an inn bedroom, feel unhappy sleeping on the ground recently, and enjoy a bedroom like a personal palace when they've built their own site and stashed some treasure in their room? If adding actual focus consequences is out of the question is there something keeping adventurers from having the unpleasant sleeping on the ground memory now that such memories can carry over between fortress mode games?
Not sure if it's the sort of thing I should bug report because it seems more like a design that just predates adventurers being awake in fortress mode at all.
Once the villains are in, succession games can finally act out through play some of their terrible player grudge matches. What are your policies on using Dwarf Fortress as a platform for professional GMing? I am but a simple communist and don't know how all the property licensing of video games or table top games shakes out for people that do it for money. But I write a book for money. Can I make a personalized dwarf fortress succession game a tier on a patreon?
So here's my tragic backstory: for the past three and a half years I've been writing a [now Game of Thrones] sized novel that started out as Dwarf Fortress fanfiction. It started, appropriately enough, as a quick and dirty attempt writing my first full novel (post-college) and it went horribly out of proportion. Aside from a few Urists, which are all placement names, it wouldn't resemble the game right now at all, but you might get to something like it before I finish on my end at this rate.
I have some fans among my friends that I am finally getting into the game. But they'd have a much easier time if I could set up a world for them. That got me thinking: if somebody is supporting my patreon and I'm also GMing a game with DF as the platform, is this opening up some kind of weird bad legal situation for you? I'd hate for Disney to suddenly release a Dwarf Fortress movie and claim to own it because you didn't enforce one instance of profit-making. Such is the bizarre world of US copywrite law.
Well, gotta ask this one (just regarding the villains release):
Fortress Mode coups? Yea? Nay? Maybe?
Demon lords are included in the villain plans if I recall, right? If so:
Is it possible that with coups being a thing, demon rulers of human civs could become common enough that I might finally see one? For instance, it seems like now the possibility is open for a demon to actively plot a human law-giver's downfall rather than simply waiting until a vacancy opens up like they do now.
Hey Toady, concerning the ever shifting balance of stress mechanics, have you considered or made use of simulative models to identify whether dwarven stress can be managed at all, or is too easily managed given various time (time spent walking, sleeping, entertaining, etc), and quality of life (death of loved ones, isolation or existence of loved ones, wealth, fed levels, etc) budgets? If not, how do you establish estimates of whether dwarves can or shouldnt be able to furnish their unmet needs based on the situation?
It's still yet a but a glimmer in your eye as we can all tell and have been told, but will the fortress's (in fortress mode) own presence as a plot actor to hire a assassin on payroll, could fufill a purpose of 'evening the field' versus very strong and at the moment difficult to take down opponents like immortal tacticians and supernaturally strong defenders? (elves are huge tactics cheaters conquering wide swathes of land and usually beating on humans to extinction with with tactic boosted beasts, and demons really tank the worst of fortress lead tower raids making them very difficult to do unless they meet a accidental demise to pass along leadership) - hopefully without presuming too much with how, but it felt fair to ask since its on development goals.
Bit less of a opened up but still i guess complex question, How much different would deliberately targeting a historical individual be compared to targeting a historical beast/megabeast in terms of a monster hunter versus what the coming assassins will do?, or is it too premature a question with everything still being built up with w.g to comment?
I just saw the parallels in agency that pushing a wad of cash into a monster hunter's (or adventurer within perspective of being that NPC) palm to kill and bring back the corpse or assure a beast is dead would be more useful than having them endlessly wandering our caverns looking for famous monsters (usally made when they as fodder fall prey to something mundane) to come to them. But that's just my opinion.
I am getting a little worried we'll see a ton of goblin kings everywhere due the combo of eternal life+villain personalities. Do you have any kind of mechanisms in mind to avoid every single ruler being an immortal scumbag?
Also, future DF games will proly have a ton more kids if Nushrat's 7 children are any indication. Kinda cool a figure can really specialize in cloak and dagger though.
EDIT:
I just realized that the immortal scumbag kings would actually fit in a dystopian world. Will the mythgen happy-vs-terrible tone slider only affect the types of things and creatures in the world or do you think it might also affect how game mechanics operate?
I was also wondering about assassinations:
Will we be able to target ANY historical figure in the world with assassinations/ kidnappings or are we limited to the ones who hold some kind of position like site ruler or the dean of the cheesemaker's guild? I was wondering what the interface for that menu would have to look like to not be too overwhelming.
Some other random questions:
Adjacent sites of the same civilisation can sometimes get into border disputes which lead to arguments and possibly armed combat. Do the new friendship/ rivalry/ villainy systems in some way interact with border disputes or is there no change to them?
In the roguelike celebration talk you gave the example of a necromancer who wants to take revenge on the town that initially banished him and who is able to start a war between humans and elves by sending someone to influence the human law giver. Is this all possible by now or is there still something missing for this to be possible?
Oh, just thought of another one because of the latest devlog:
Do you plan on making NPC assassin do their deeds secretly in a fort mode fort, like vampires do? What I mean is, will they be able to kill someone and leave the fort, passing by other dwarves without anyone noticing that they are a/ were the murderer?
It would be a bummer if they automatically just turned into "invader" status after the murder because that would mean no assassin would ever leave a player fort alive, like the guys who try to steal artifacts.
"Snang still carries it."
Does this mean that, now, artifact armors or weapons are actually used and "seen" by people, and considered as armors or weapons, and not just "treasures to be stored/displayed" ?
It seems all major position holders (kings, druids ect.) are also villains. Is this intended behaviour or just the effect of something, that isn't implemented yet, and will it stay that way in the release?
Are villains and there groups going to fight about there respective agents ect, or can any given person work for/be extorted by any given number of criminal organizations? in other words, will there be "turf wars" in any sense of the word?
I am not sure if this was asked before, but how many of these new noble positions will we see/be able to appoint in Fort mode?
thx in advance, and thx for an awesome devlog!
1. With the recent story about intrigue and landed titles and one of the remaining candidates being gaining entry level positions/titles from intrigue do you think it is becoming more likely that with the villain fleshing out update our adventurers will be able to get titles/positions in civilizations by doing quests for high ranking people?
2. In the recent story you posted a lot of land holding nobles were mentioned. Will the land they hold actually exist in that we could visit it? Also how big and how small a parcel of land could a noble hold? Would it have to be at least as big as a site or could they hold a subsection of land within a site?
3. Another thing mentioned in your recent story was assassins. Could our adventurers take up assassination quests in the coming update and like wise could our adventurers hire assassins to kill people? It was stated a while ago that our adventurers could hire their own agents.
4. Finally if our adventurers found a site will they be able to grant landed titles to their subjects?
1. Will creatures always necessarily hold grudges against their former partners, or is it possible for a relationship to simply "not work out" with no ill-will between either person involved? What causes someone to end a relationship, aside from unwillingness to commit?
2a. Should a successful usurper lack the wisdom to properly dispose of the former monarch and their supporters, is it possible for said ex-monarch to orchestrate their own "counter coup" to take back power? If the ex-monarch dies before they can attempt to take back the throne, but still has kids kicking around, would those kids recognize their status as former heirs, and plot to reclaim their rightful throne?
2b. As an extension of the previous question, how will already existing claims interact with the new villain system? Would current position holders be able to recognize potential claimants as a threat, and dispose of them via assassins?
2c. Will we see the children of ruling monarchs engage in the historically time honored tradition of sibling rivarly over who gets to be the heir? Would the degree to which this occurs be affected by how much the civ in question values family / power?
3. Will villains attempt to place people other than themselves in civ ruler positions? For example, could a demon or rival civ leader try to position a more easily influenced or cowardly character as the leader of a neighboring civ? If so, is it necessary for said character to already be caught up in the web, or could this happen without their knowledge of the strings being pulled?
4. What happens if a coup attempt doesn't quite go the way the plotters were hoping?
5. What exactly happens if the monarch of a civ is the primary propagator of a villain network? Would there basically be no consequences whatsoever to be uncovered in that situation? [Who the heck is gonna punish you when you're already at the top of the chain?]
6. Does the abstracted "personal account" manifest in the world in any way, even if said manifestations are entirely arbitrary? IE: The hearthpeople of a rich lord being better equipped in general?
(updated: Is the puesdo-"equipment funds" system used exclusively by mercenaries, or will other civ landholders at various levels be able to interact with the system?)
And a few questions about the upcoming myth and magic arc:
7. We're going to be getting procedural civilized critters - Does this mean that we'll be seeing new types of procedurally generated populated sites? Or are generated creatures just gonna piggyback off of the existing types of sites for the first pass?
8. On the higher settings for randomness, is it possible for worlds to come out of world gen with more than one moon, or perhaps multiple suns? Or maybe no sun and/or no moon? Will these effect the daylight or seasonal cycle on the world? IE: pitch black nights on a world with no moon, different types or cycles of day for worlds with multiple suns, ect.
1. Will player adventurers be able to join an existing villains organization and actually participate
2. Are the assassin agreements available to player adventurers in adventure mode? I’ve always wanted to play as a proper assassin. And the most recent dev log made me excited.
Since you are working along the usual worldgen -> post w.g. -> adventure -> fortress cycle, which ones of the following features are more likely than not to make it to fortress mode (I'm basing myself off your devlogs since the last release):
1. Advanced romance (divorces, rejections, triangles, jealousy, simultaneous partnerships, remarriages, children outside wedding, etc)
2. Dwarven mounts
3. Visitor agents that are part of villain networks, and/or villain citizens
4. Plots to obtain positions (mayor, baron, etc.) or artifacts
5. Assassinations, kidnapping, theft, insurrection, tips for invasion as a result of these plots
6. "Intrigue skill" or loyalty being relevant and/or trainable
7. Sending agents of your own, capturing or killing the villain offsite
8. False identities for agents, villains and other non-vampire migrants/visitors
9. Advanced friendships (people becoming war buddies or childhood friends in your fort, or war buddies/childhood friends arriving together as migrants, etc)
10. Advanced crimes (corruption, embezzling, blackmailing, sabotage)
11. Athletic competitions
12. Appointable new positions (keeper of the seal, royal justiciar, master of beasts, etc.)
13. Foreign trading outposts, and/or being able to send trading outposts offsite
14. Prophets and/or priests arising from temples or arriving as visitors
15. Religion conversion, priesthood positions/occupations
16. Monastic orders
EDIT: to clarify, I'm asking about whether they'll be implemented in fort mode as an actual gameplay element, and in this upcoming release (or at least in subsequent passes, before the big wait, in one of the minor incremental/bugfix ones)
EDIT: Since the latest development update mentioned upcoming work on villain hideouts, I thought I'd ask some pertinent questions first:
1. I don't imagine it makes sense for bandit forts to have fine granite walls, barring edge scenarios. Will palisades and other such ramshackle fortifications possibly be making an appearance, and see utilization at other types of sites, too? (villages, minor forts, watchtowers, etc)
2. Are there plans for the possibility of 'overlapping sites' - for example, a bandit hideout at the mouth of a cave or the entry levels of a ruin, cities built atop the remains of much older settlements, etc. in the somewhat foreseeable future? Is this something that the update will try and tackle, or is it far too difficult in scope to shoehorn into the update?
3. Was there some specific reason for castles being removed in the first place? (perhaps someone that's been around here longer than me might also have the answer to that question)
4. What kind of size variety do you anticipate for castles?
5. Similarly, do you have any ballparks as to how frequent you want castles to be in a typical human civilization? Having just 3-4 castles in an average civilization would seem a bit odd, seeing as generic-western-fantasy-kingdoms tend to be littered with castles, and this applies to real-life countries, too (those that built them, at least).
Now, my myth & magic questions:
1. Will there be some kind of sanity system beyond the current strange moods, eventually?
2. Are there plans to make 'forbidden knowledge' a thing? As in, knowledge that has an inherent mental effect on anyone who discovers it and doesn't have a strong enough willpower to resist it's effects. Knowledge not meant for mortal minds causing mental degradation, despair, existential dread, unnatural obsessions, etc. is a fairly common trope in fantasy. If this is in the cards, do you have any ideas on how it would be determined what snippets of knowledge are significant enough to warrant mental effects?
3. Speaking of strange moods - what is the long-term plan for them? Will the eventually be scrapped with an entirely different system?
4. Will the player somehow be conveyed the mundaneness of the magic their character is seeing? i.e. being conveyed that the fireball spell the enemy mage is using is very common and run-of-the-mill, versus it being some extremely strange, novel spell that they've never even thought to be possible up until now?
5. Will NPCs be able to react in various ways to magic, depending on their own experience and knowledge of the arcane arts? I can see something like this being especially interesting in low-magic worlds. Stuff like:
-Peasants/townfolk that have never seen magic crowding around someone doing sorcery in public in fascination, or alternatively running away in terror
-Being able to prove your magical capabilities to skeptical individuals, with a wide range of reactions depending on the skeptics' personality
-Authority figures receiving rumors of powerful enough (again, depending on the level of magic in the world) mages, and potentially sending emissaries to offer employment
With bandits receiving bandit forts and bugs being fixed will we be able to finally complete quests on destroying bandit camps? Same goes to criminals in town catacombs
Do you think we'll see adventure mode jails to go with our villains and the interrogation of them? Like, I can understand there's just too little to do the full range of crime and punishment, but I am currently having a vision of bringing a villain to a law enforcer, and then the law enforcer go 'cool, yes we were looking for this guy' and then lets the villain go because law enforcer is an adventure mode npc who doesn't know what to do with law breakers.
Sorry for my English, it's hard to be a Dwarf Fortress fan who knows English badly,
and so my questions are:
1.1 Will in the game, pantheon of the gods united from the very beginning of the generation of the world, or united by the faith of people?
1.2. Will the gods place where they are most of the time, such as the Ancient Greek in Olympia?
1.3. Can the gods have a relationship and can they have children?
1.4. May be the main gods in their pantheon of gods, for example Zeus in Olympus, may be villains plans for the power struggle?
1.5 Can there be wars between the pantheons. Will people come to war for their faith, on the contrary, God will enter into a war for those who believe in him, this will give a little balance because demons in goblins can kill a hundred for the battle?
2. You will test all updates with a magical release?
3. Is it possible to do something like gladiatorial battles to death, or just for training. Or to make a different type in different worlds or kingdoms as a tournament every 5 years and with the reward for determining the best warrior, and in the other is generated so that once a year, random creatures in the worl are battling to death, here's a lot to come up with the release of magical releases. Especially if they could have been an adventurer
I hope someone understands my Google Translate
In the Jan. 24 Dev log, you mentioned a lot of bug fixing. Have you found and/or fixed anything related to the Stress system? Is there anything we can do to help with that issue? Like making specific scenario test forts and uploading them. I thought of this again because my current Fort had a Dwarf with maximum happiness (DFHack cheat) become depressed in a single tick after viewing a pool of Horrid Sludge.
Do social skills (other than Pacifier, Consoler, Judge of Intent) have any gameplay effect in fortress mode?
(for what it's worth, the wiki states that it is unclear what they actually do)
Are "giant sleeping monsters that are so massive they act as map features", or severed body parts thereof ("The left eye of Thatakeus" or whatever) on the table for the myth and magic release?
Are you worried about the general activity slowdown in the forums and wiki? How would you explain that despite the community shrinking in size, donations have gone up?
Toady; do monasteries, bandit forts and castles have a mead hall-like zone that counts as being in control of the site once claimed, and pedestals/rooms for artifacts?
Did roadside inns/taverns make it in this time around?
With bandit forts getting added, what features are missing before a DF world could theoretically reenact the classical Chinese novel Water Margin? Could a group of bandits end up serving as a military for the group they once preyed on? Similarly, could a military unit end up as bandits? If not, what features are needed before they could?
Toady, what sort of symbols/tiles represent these new sites you're adding in (monasteries, bandit forts, castles)?
I notice my starving adventurer dwarf is unwilling to eat live vermin but also won't lick them like she would with another unedible object. Is this because of a moral, an ethic, a bug, or a goofy joke? More importantly is there any intention of a dedicated Lick button as separate from the eat button so we can activate modded talismans or activate modded frogs? Are any advanced Inventory interactions planned for vermin since they can suddenly be a pet and at least picked up and put down? Are any more Shift+I button interactions planned before the big wait since so many fancy items are kicking around now?
Also I've been looking at vermin code a lot and it looks like a few kinds can attack (like bees) but most don't. Is there any reason mosquitos don't bite, even without the bloodsucker effect? Would it be traumatizing to dwarves to be bit by a vermin they don't like, or not any moreso than being around the vermin?
What do the new monasteries look like? Are they multiple buildings in close proximity or are they just one? Are they a big rectangle or is there more to their design?
How will the Myth and Magic update affect night-creatures?
When you start ordering your party around to do villaneous things, will your group show up on the new "villain networks" map? I imagine that would be a lot of fun to track and compare with the other networks in the world.
And, on the same subject,
I know the schedule is now way off, but just how villaneous will we be able to be with our parties. All the way from ordering artifact stealing, assassinations and coups? (let's say, by the start of the Big Wait in case it's not all in right away)
Oh, and,
Do big villaneous networks persist after the bad guy at the top is dead?
Are there raws for the new stats like loyalty, intrigue, etc for our custom civs?
Quote from: Death DragonI know there's no way for us to pay them without a proper economy, but can the player in any way interact with these new mercenary companies in fort mode?Quote from: ThomasasiaHow will players be able to interact with the mercenary groups in Fortress Mode?
Quote from: UntrustedlifeCan player adventurers join and participate in mercenary orders? That sounds like an awesome opportunity to get a "I trained to battle alongside the death mercenaries" kind of story, like that montage you get in basically all fantasy movies, where the monk order or that one knight teach you how to fight. It would also just be cool to go up in rank and have that. And to get those various "contracts" and actually complete them.(Dark Bortherhood here i come)Quote from: ThomasasiaIn adventure mode, will we be able to join them or found our own?
So, in the latest dev diary, there is much mention of wealth and currency as it relates to mercenary companies. Talk of upgrading gear with wealth, upkeep costs, etc.
How does this actually work? I've heard no talk (perhaps missed it, there is afterall, lots of info around) of the return of economy, so what exactly constitutes wealth at this point, in this context?
It didn't seem like Toady was referencing the barter that is generally the situation right now, so does anyone have more insight (perhaps from a FotF question I've missed) about how this will play out for the player in, say Fortress mode?
I'm curious to know if this system has an impact on the player in some meaningful way at this point; some fashion in which we can spend coins for things. By this I mean in some other way than the otherwise barter-trade type way we make use of stuff like that right now.
Do weapon mercenaries based of axes (for instance) only uses axes, or is it just a preference ?
Will we see bowmen mercenaries ?
Will we see animal-men mercenaries ?
Can a weapon (artifact) be worshiped ?
Will we see entire merc companies (up to the pop cap) visiting Fortress mode taverns, like performance troupes?
Will we see the armies of regular civilizations getting those nice skill based titles as well as mercenaries? Would be neat to see royal guards with their own generated flowery titles (and above-average skills and equipment, maybe)
Just to confirm, will other entities like bandit groups or possibly even civilizations disband properly once enough of their members have died out, like with mercenary bands?
Artifacts have gotten a lot of love with the update, and look like they're going to get more during the magic update. Related to artifacts, are there any plans to make the properties of procedurally generated megabeasts carry over into the materials they leave behind when they die or are butchered? Similarly, might bronze colossi and dragons leave behind less mundane materials?
It would be very neat for it to be possible to create artifacts or special/artifact items out of the remains of megabeasts, i.e. Leather armor with some of the material properties of brass from the skin of a Titan with small brass scales. I'd love to see a heirloom suit of armor made from the scales of a dragon someone's great-grandfather slew.
Got a question from Kram1032's comment on Kruggsmash's latest video:
What exactly did you change to fix the notorious bug that caused cats to die from alcohol poisoning after cleaning themselves? Did you change the amount of content there is in spatterings/smears of contamination in general or did you just change something about how it relates to body size?
The question came up because a well filled with vampire blood contaminated water didn't seem to infect people who drank from it and the comment assumed that it might be related to that bug fix.
Not calling it a bug though. I assume it just means that you require a higher concentration of vampire blood in the water in order to infect people.
Toady; can mercenary organizations pass down secrets members have? Obviously that death cult didnt get access to the slab or writings about the secret of life and death, but if they do through some means, can that end up worked into their rhetoric the way worship and particular weapons/skills/roles does? Ive made a mod with tons of secrets that dont have reanimation effects, and often see for instance fire mage mercenaries visit my fort.
also, do these companies tend to hold onto artifacts? Im thinking kinda like the stories surrounding the IRL Templar; theyd amass great wealth, supposedly also valuable religious relics, and hoard much of it for themselves or use it to further their interests. What part of those should be viable to see in game?
I don't have additional data or explanations for the various community metrics. The forum numbers don't feel *tremendously* different. The 500-700 ranges for Januarys from 2012 to 2019 are pretty consistent; it has dropped a bit, and sometimes it dips into the 300s nowadays, but we had a 739 today, so I really have no idea. The latest version downloads are currently around 60000 a month, and that's been consistent for the last five months according to these stats. I don't have the older numbers on hand, but it doesn't strike me as different from what I've seen (and I have no idea how many of those downloads are "real".)
QuoteI don't have additional data or explanations for the various community metrics. The forum numbers don't feel *tremendously* different. The 500-700 ranges for Januarys from 2012 to 2019 are pretty consistent; it has dropped a bit, and sometimes it dips into the 300s nowadays, but we had a 739 today, so I really have no idea. The latest version downloads are currently around 60000 a month, and that's been consistent for the last five months according to these stats. I don't have the older numbers on hand, but it doesn't strike me as different from what I've seen (and I have no idea how many of those downloads are "real".)
This topic has come up multiple times recently on the /r/dwarffortress subreddit, for some reason, people all a-panic that the Bay12Forum/Dwarf Fortress community is dying. I wonder what the origin of the concern is.
On the reddit side, which I can speak for as one of the moderators with access to usage numbers, our ~74k members and other unsubscribed readers are generating ~70k unique visitors and 601k to 1M+ page views per month, with a substantial positive subscription rate. They don't give us year over year data, only the previous year, but it doesn't look like a weakening community to me.
Generally, materials already pass all of their mundane properties on to the stuff you make, since the material definition is the same (like bone) or derived (like leather), but yeah, there's extra room for the game to recognize and use the really important creatures and their subsequent products.
Nice.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWell, gotta ask this one (just regarding the villains release):He he he.
Fortress Mode coups? Yea? Nay? Maybe?
I love this. It delays the update release by a bit more, but man oh man would it be amazing to finally get some purpose for coins in fortress mode again.QuoteQuote from: Death DragonI know there's no way for us to pay them without a proper economy, but can the player in any way interact with these new mercenary companies in fort mode?Quote from: ThomasasiaHow will players be able to interact with the mercenary groups in Fortress Mode?
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7923142#msg7923142
Death Dragon (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7923167#msg7923167
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7923176#msg7923176
Ha ha, yeah, we were planning on a special announcement if you get attacked by one; even if it's a little more than you should know about them, it'd be a waste not to get those details out there. Possible exception is if a lone mercenary (who is part of a company) sneaks into your fort on a job and completes it without being detected; you might not get either their or their company's identity immediately in that case. But sending out an agent and getting the company identity and then finding a way up the chain is a core part of the planned game here.
To a larger possible point, it wooould be cool if you could hire them. The trade depot broker does already track the currency value of goods, and there are those coins and everything; just because the proper economy is turned off doesn't mean there isn't already trading. We're still considering this. It would be funny if that were the only practical use for fort mode coins for a while, having a dwarf messenger hauling a pile of them off-screen with a job request (unless mercenaries do jobs on credit and you settle up later with a representative; at this point, *if* we get to this, it'll be whatever's easier to program.) You could see every gold vein as a number of contracts, in coins per tile, if they aren't willing to take your golden figurines.
This topic has come up multiple times recently on the /r/dwarffortress subreddit, for some reason, people all a-panic that the Bay12Forum/Dwarf Fortress community is dying. I wonder what the origin of the concern is.
On the reddit side, which I can speak for as one of the moderators with access to usage numbers, our ~74k members and other unsubscribed readers are generating ~70k unique visitors and 601k to 1M+ page views per month, with a substantial positive subscription rate. They don't give us year over year data, only the previous year, but it doesn't look like a weakening community to me.
Hello Toadi, thank you for the questions and answers.Little question,will the mode of Legends change, now without utilities it is difficultGiven that there are 3:rd party utilities to make Legends Mode info more accessible, it's probably a better use of Toady's time to improve the contents (to include all the new stuff), rather than the presentation, plus, of course, to provide all the new things that fuel Legends.
Hello Toadi, thank you for the questions and answers.Little question,will the mode of Legends change, now without utilities it is difficultYes. It's a long term project but it (and, really, everything else in the game) isn't in any kind of "completed" state.
Hello Toadi, thank you for the questions and answers.Little question,will the mode of Legends change, now without utilities it is difficultHe did say in a devlog and in previous questions that he made some changes to legends mode and its structure:
Does the equipment belong to the company, or is it awarded to individuals?
Individual mercenaries can also use their money to upgrade their own equipment. This typically happens before their company (if any) steps up, but a wealthy company can pay to equip joining members if they are behind.
I did not hear about it, I'm very pleased to hearQuote from: Aid link=topic=169696.msg7924855#msg7924855
date=1549199244Hello Toadi, thank you for the questions and answers.Little question,will the mode of Legends change, now without utilities it is difficultHe did say in a devlog and in previous questions that he made some changes to legends mode and its structure:
"I managed to scrunch the data down so that the historical figure legends display shows all of their various dalliances, which was a concern for a bit, as there is a lot of activity. I also made every battle a historical figure participates in, even as a regular soldier, part of the figure's chronology now, which helps reconstruct narratives such as the one to follow."
Some more info about the changes could be nice.
Posting to watch myself, but Laterigrade needs a slight colour adjustment -The lime green is more readable than the "normal" green, but both work for Toady's purposes: to locate the questions among all the chaff when it comes time to read the next FotF (he reads the whole thread, if I understand it correctly, but it's helpful for the answer compilation phase to be able to locate the relevant parts quickly). Still, higher readability is better than a poorer one...
friendly reminder for the unaware and anyone else, Toady prefers lime green for his questions. Something about being able to distinguish it better, if I recall.
Same reason you can assign parts of your Adventurer camps as taverns and temples even though it doesn't do anything yet. It's not finished. It'll all do something eventially. Splints will surely be used in the upcoming medical upgrades for example.
Posting to watch myself, but Laterigrade needs a slight colour adjustment -Thanks; fixed.
friendly reminder for the unaware and anyone else, Toady prefers lime green for his questions. Something about being able to distinguish it better, if I recall.
Have you considered allowing adventurers to put points into http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Appraiser at the start of the game, so that we can see goods prices in adventure mode? Or is there some mechanical blocker there?.I suspect that the adventure mode trade interface isn't set up to display prices, but I'm not sure. (Perhaps modding an adventurer reaction that trains appraiser could shed some light on this.)
Will waterwells become usable in adventure mode, and will drawing water from them be affected by entity ethics such as trespassing and theft?Water wells are already usable, you need to use U to interact with them. (Give that nearly nothing else uses U, I cannot blame you for not realizing this) No idea if it'll be considered theft, I suspect not as that would require a better sense of property, wouldn't it? And work on that is planned post mythgen.
Huh, thanks for telling me. Do they freeze during winter like the fortress versions?QuoteWill waterwells become usable in adventure mode, and will drawing water from them be affected by entity ethics such as trespassing and theft?Water wells are already usable, you need to use U to interact with them. (Give that nearly nothing else uses U, I cannot blame you for not realizing this) No idea if it'll be considered theft, I suspect not as that would require a better sense of property, wouldn't it? And work on that is planned post mythgen.
though I haven't visited a freezing desert yet.
Will dwarven tunnels get attached aqueducts/cisterns/waterwells at some point?
With exile implemented, will entities with ETHIC:FOO:PUNISH_EXILE be more likely to exile their members instead of beating or imprisoning, and will exiled members be counted as entity members or neutrals for the purposes of ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL?
Will entities gain master persuaders as law enforcers and use them to convert criminals if ETHIC:FOO:PUNISH_REPRIMAND is enabled?
Adventure role: Thief on the development page describes several punishments acceptable to an entity with ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE and adjacent; will entities with a low opinion of torture favor social punishments, imprisonment or exile over these?
Is a system for generating personal ethics based on character personality in the works?
I wonder what this new "religious tension" is actually going to look like. Riots are super interesting though. I hope they get into fort mode somehow. Having to assign separate temples because of intollerant religion followers starting fist fights?I suspect religious organizations will be able to have enemies much like civs can, and then direct their followers towards attacking those. Or if someone profanes a temple, then all of the followers will be offended, and the profaners' friends get involved, and then a riot breaks out.
It amazes me with each new devlog how much of a leap this release is making towards player ability to tell actual, coherent stories that don't require a huge amount of subjective interpretation. We've still got a long way to go, of course, but all these new features are still awesome and way more than I ever expected we'd get in the game for a while yet to come.The usual complaint about bad open world games is that they feel 'empty and dead'. For my current world, adventure mode feels 'alive but empty', which I think is super impressive all things considered. I am wondering to what extend this update will make things feel less empty though, like, on one hand there's more happening, but one of the things that frustrates me is that it's kind of hard to converse with given histfigs. Like, going up to a refugee it's really hard to ask them why they're fleeing, where they're heading, or even how they feel about having to flee. Nor can I ask about where the army is, or where anyone relevant is.
Also really helps set the stage for mythgen, since it'll inevitably require more narrative mechanics than currently exist. I guess that's part of the point.
This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)Last I head, boats are still going to be locked to the grid.
In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid
((May add more questions later))
Yes, there's nothing indicating the map rewrite (or the boat introduction) will do away with the underlying grid system on the lowest level as such. There's enough work to adjust everything else... Also, a higher resolution lowest level grid would result in an FPS penalty in the form of increased path finding costs as well as processing for vegetation, water flow, etc. That said, it might be possible to introduce some kind of internal local grid for workshop zones for equipment placement purposes (this is a pure speculation on my part, but would be handy for stockpiles as well: one (bag of) seed doesn't really require 4 square meters...).This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)Last I head, boats are still going to be locked to the grid.
In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid
((May add more questions later))
For us, the problems are just technical at first. How do you do the directions the boats are going in ASCII? You have a few choices. I know Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead, this zombie roguelike, they have these cars and stuff you can make and drive around, and they take the rectangle and shear it, so that it looks kind of weird, but the seats are still connected. For me, there's too many mechanics going on to kill the geometry that way. If two people were wrestling diagonally across those two car seats, when it turned they'd no longer be adjacent.Source (https://www.pcgamer.com/why-the-creator-of-dwarf-fortress-is-really-excited-about-boats/)
There's a million little problems like that that basically boil down to, you can point your boat in four directions. The geometry is intact. But that doesn't mean your boat needs to go four directions. You could have it going on a pretty smooth vector, up-up-over, whatever, and then the only problem becomes the pop when you get up to 45 [degrees]. Suddenly it turns. If we do pretty big boats, they might displace one tile of water. Maybe it depends on how much cargo is in there, who knows. Then when they pop, there might be fish or mer-people over here who get whacked. Do they just teleport, or get pushed? What if there's no room to push them because you're near a dock?
I feel like the problems all have solutions. There's a sliding scale of acceptability to your solution, and I think they're mostly okay. There will be some weird things where certain mer-people get scrunched. The real problem with this is if you're not controlling the boat, and you're the player, and you get scrunched. Like if a Dwarf Fortress is on the beach, you set up this whole cove where boats can come in and dock and unload stuff, all really cool stuff, right, but then you have dwarves messing around in the water and then a boat turns the wrong way and all your dwarves are catapulted out into space... There will be little problems, and we'll just roll with it.
I guess you won't know yet as it's kind of edge-case, but...
If a spy (either Adventurer or histfig) takes on the identity of a curse-giving god worshipper, would they get cursed by the god after knocking down its statues (Ha! Fooled you. Now I'm a weresloth...) or just cause religious unrest?
Can villains falsely accuse other people of temple desecration if there were no witnesses?
Dev notes say interrogation, prisoner trades, executions and release.
When the subject of seizing position-holders as prisoners is addressed, do you intend to allow the captors to ransom the prisoners, or will they just be locked away for now?
I hope to see a bit more improvement to the conversation system so I can discover legends stuff as an adventurer, and you know, actually make a difference. (Last time I 'made a difference' was when I recruited heartspeople from a town that was being attacked, which meant that the town didn't have enough militia commanders and thus they got conquered two weeks later. Funny, but not intentional.)I agree that the conversation system's clunkyness is probably one of adventure mode's bigger problems currently, making it harder for new people to get into the game.
... who prefer to fight mounted ...A mercenary cavalry unit would be amazing.
Will the Myth and Magic update add new structures into the game? And if so, what might they be?Hopefully all current structures and sites will survive the transition past the map rewrite.
It's planned that, when you expel someone, the person will remember that negatively and if they have villainous tendencies, they might want to take revenge on you in some way, right?Currently they don't care: they return again and again to petition... Each time they're dejected to some degree based on personality, as per usual, so I guess that eventually they may go bonkers for petition rejection stress (some do that even on the first rejection currently).
Would there be a chance that the same could happen when you decline a visitor's petition request or do they currently not care about it either way when you decline those?
Now that marriage and dating has been expanded, will we see an entity level value for things like adultery?
EDIT: Also: Since it's a common trope, are Gods creating demigods by breeding with civilized races planned?
Yes, and interrogations will be necessary, because otherwise villains are a bit OP. But again, given how DF works, maybe interrogations will mostly consist of 'hey bro, you did this?' and the villain in question always answering 'yup, together with this person in another town'.I imagine that eventually we will see them all.
There's also a nice diverse list of possible punishments in the thief section, but again, no idea how much we'll see those given the law system is a bit barebones.
These are already in the game, right? I play adventure mode only very rarely, but you can travel to ruins and talk to your companions about them, no?
Will we be able to see and visit ruins of a destroyed temple ?
Will we be able to "ask" something like "what is this destroyed building" ? to people ?
I have some questions about one-way portals:1. A portal may connect point in the same world, different world, and different "dimensions/realms", so anything from completely mundane to completely bizarre is possible. What will be implemented in the first pass (where one dimensional ones are implemented) probably depends on what Toady comes up with at the time, i.e. he probably doesn't have anything fixed yet.
1. What kinds of creatures might they bring into the world? Will they be relatively normal, or completely alien?
2. Will megabeasts come out of the portals?
3. Will the portals bring items into the world? And if so, what kind?
4. What realms are these portals connected to? Are they afterlifes, or different dimensions entirely?
5. Will the player be able to open them in Fortress mode?
6. How will these portals affect magic and creation myths?
I have some questions about one-way portals:1. A portal may connect point in the same world, different world, and different "dimensions/realms", so anything from completely mundane to completely bizarre is possible. What will be implemented in the first pass (where one dimensional ones are implemented) probably depends on what Toady comes up with at the time, i.e. he probably doesn't have anything fixed yet.
1. What kinds of creatures might they bring into the world? Will they be relatively normal, or completely alien?
2. Will megabeasts come out of the portals?
3. Will the portals bring items into the world? And if so, what kind?
4. What realms are these portals connected to? Are they afterlifes, or different dimensions entirely?
5. Will the player be able to open them in Fortress mode?
6. How will these portals affect magic and creation myths?
2. Quite possible, and it may also be a god/eldritch horror that's tricked mages into releasing it into the world...
3. Some kind of item and resource yielding portals have been discussed in the past, I think. What you may get depends on where the other end of the portal is (and what's implemented in the first pass)...
4. See 1.
5. Yes, eventually. Whether that will be implemented in the first pass or not remains to be seen, but it would probably be implemented early.
6. It would presumably be the other way around, i.e. the portal magic available and the external "planes" portal may connect to depends on what magic and "planes" myth gen comes up with.
Also note that one way portals aren't anything special in themselves, but rather a special case of portals that's easier to implement than the two way version (as that would require DF to handle two locations concurrently, which requires extra work. An early two way portal implementation might work similar to raiding does currently, though, i.e. squads are just sent through the portal to do their thing and then return with a report [or fail to return...]).
And a more fun question:Evidence from Twitter that Zach's not locked in a basement by himself with a box of crayons:
3. Given how many patrons/donators you have now, how do you handle the logistics of drawing all those crayon drawings and writing all those stories? Is this writing basically a full time job for Zach at this point? The story bits you guys send out are all very well made, so he must put alot of thought into each And writing what could easily be hundreds of stories at a time must be quite the challenge.
You can see your repution in your thoughts screen, right? True that it should probably be moved to some easier to find place.
2. Any plans to flesh out the reputation system (or add new types of reputations, or display NPC reputations (other then enemy) in legends mode.) in general in the next few updates, such as displaying player reputation info in the Quest log?
You can see your repution in your thoughts screen, right? True that it should probably be moved to some easier to find place.
2. Any plans to flesh out the reputation system (or add new types of reputations, or display NPC reputations (other then enemy) in legends mode.) in general in the next few updates, such as displaying player reputation info in the Quest log?
Will rock salt ever become an edible item?Sounds more like a suggestion than a question.
Will rock salt ever become an edible item?
I know we won't be able to tap directly into accounts ourselves, but will we be able to set an official to embezzling for us and receive things like bags of gems or local coinage as a representation?
Why dont demons go on a rampage throughout the world once you release them or at least do more then just hang around your site? And why do mummies disappear when you leave the site, wouldnt it be much more simulations/interesting if they actually stuck around? It just seems odd given the other features in the game which are far more simulationist and kinda clashes with the reality of the situation.If something is missing it means it hasn't been made yet. Especially in Adventurer which is far less developed than Fortress mode so far.
For the Myth and Myth Release will magic also be found in the form of runes? In many different fantasy settings dwarfs have a great affinity for "rune magic", will we ever see this in Dwarf Fortress as well?Rune magic has been asked about and mostly confirmed in this thread before. I think if you do a search for runes you should find a previous answer from not so long ago.
If so, would this form of magic somehow be implemented into the engraving and magic skills? (In the sense that creating a rune would require knowledge in the engraving skill in order to carve the rune into an object, as well as the proper experience in magic to imbue power into the rune.) Or would "Rune Crafting" have it's own skill(s) entirely to differentiate itself?
Lastly, What uses could rune magic have?
(For example: Could magic runes carved onto a weapon/piece of armor give said item special properties such as a rune engraved weapon now causing fire damage or have it deal harder hits in general? Could a rune engraved on a Helmet grant it a better chance at shrugging off blows? As another example, could engraving a rune on an object like a door make it so that it can only be opened by one with sufficient magical knowledge/skill? Or could magical runes be used as a form of "trap" engraved on a tile that could cause a lethal property to activate, for instance say, engulf the tile in flames if a specific creature (ex: a goblin or filthy elf) stepped on it?)
I might be going out on a limb or a tangent here that could quite possibly belong in the suggestions thread, but if something like this was ever implemented it could add a whole new depth for dwarfs interacting with objects as well as their environment.
4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?
Toady's reply:
4. It depends on what you mean and the settings for that world. "Geomancers" and "Rune <X>ers" are common dwarf 'wizard' types that aren't closely linked to the more-often-used priest powers. Then there's the more traditional links to magical item production, which is a sort of magic. The more vanilla settings will lean this way, toward 'dwarfy' magics, I suspect. Others will allow more arbitrary research and spell opportunities. Even in the vanilla settings, doing things like exploring runes and the powers of the earth would be on the table as research-style possibilities.
1)
8)Will haunted furniture night creatures make it in before the big wait?
Wow, that's pretty cool info! Thank you for digging through the thread and finding this answer from toady, I'll have to go back and do a bit of digging myself and see if I can find anything else related to dwarf magic and runes.For the Myth and Myth Release will magic also be found in the form of runes? In many different fantasy settings dwarfs have a great affinity for "rune magic", will we ever see this in Dwarf Fortress as well?Rune magic has been asked about and mostly confirmed in this thread before. I think if you do a search for runes you should find a previous answer from not so long ago.
If so, would this form of magic somehow be implemented into the engraving and magic skills? (In the sense that creating a rune would require knowledge in the engraving skill in order to carve the rune into an object, as well as the proper experience in magic to imbue power into the rune.) Or would "Rune Crafting" have it's own skill(s) entirely to differentiate itself?
Lastly, What uses could rune magic have?
(For example: Could magic runes carved onto a weapon/piece of armor give said item special properties such as a rune engraved weapon now causing fire damage or have it deal harder hits in general? Could a rune engraved on a Helmet grant it a better chance at shrugging off blows? As another example, could engraving a rune on an object like a door make it so that it can only be opened by one with sufficient magical knowledge/skill? Or could magical runes be used as a form of "trap" engraved on a tile that could cause a lethal property to activate, for instance say, engulf the tile in flames if a specific creature (ex: a goblin or filthy elf) stepped on it?)
I might be going out on a limb or a tangent here that could quite possibly belong in the suggestions thread, but if something like this was ever implemented it could add a whole new depth for dwarfs interacting with objects as well as their environment.
--edit
Oh, like this one to start with. There's others too I think.Quote4. Traditionally, wizard magic is a big no no for dwarves. Do you think we'll be able to make dwarf wizards anyway on our forts, if we want to?
Toady's reply:
4. It depends on what you mean and the settings for that world. "Geomancers" and "Rune <X>ers" are common dwarf 'wizard' types that aren't closely linked to the more-often-used priest powers. Then there's the more traditional links to magical item production, which is a sort of magic. The more vanilla settings will lean this way, toward 'dwarfy' magics, I suspect. Others will allow more arbitrary research and spell opportunities. Even in the vanilla settings, doing things like exploring runes and the powers of the earth would be on the table as research-style possibilities.
Why dont demons go on a rampage throughout the world once you release them or at least do more then just hang around your site? And why do mummies disappear when you leave the site, wouldnt it be much more simulations/interesting if they actually stuck around? It just seems odd given the other features in the game which are far more simulationist and kinda clashes with the reality of the situation.
Being raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainyJust pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
QuoteBeing raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainyJust pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
No, it's not, unless you subscribe to the notion that the people of the countries are fleeing from are, by their "racial" nature bent towards evil. The real world has no Goblins (or any Dwarven race either, for that matter). Trying to project fantasy onto the real world (or vice versa) is not a fruitful venture.QuoteBeing raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainyJust pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
I sure hope he'll revise his position then, there's a lot of potential fun in trying to build and protect the last remnant of dwarven kingdom in a world that the demons are invading, without even mentionning the fun in adventure mode.
QuoteBeing raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainyJust pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
QuoteBeing raised a goblin, Bax was a natural for villainyJust pointing this out, but this is implicit support for the (statistically false) political notion that refugees are dangerous.
Given the status of goblin civilizations in DF and the fact that a lot of the histfigs changing civs do so seemingly because they can, it's arguably closer in implication to the "post-war German hiding in Argentina" thing than modern scenarios...
1. Can you list all the new types of buildings we will be seeing in large human sites in this next release?1. Trade outposts, guild halls, town-towers, shrines. Temples, libraries, markets and taverns already existed. So did keeps. Monasteries/Merchant forts/Bandit forts/Castles are new sites which can contain these things. There might be more coming depending on what will get done with prisoners.
2. Will special owned buildings be exclusive to massive sites like cities or can smaller sites like towns have them as well? I ask this because it takes a lot longer for cities to form than towns during world gen.
3. If our player adventurers can join mercenary organizations and said organization owns a building will our adventurer gain permission to sleep in that building?
4. Will buildings owned by organizations contain items related to the type of organization that owns the building? For example would a building owned by a mercenary order contain spare weapons and armor?
What sort of details do you have in mind for dungeons? Bone piles and torturous instruments? The only elaborations I imagine are like those from the Act I Jail dungeons under the Rogue Monastery in Diablo II.
What sort of details do you have in mind for dungeons? Bone piles and torturous instruments?You mean like bagpipes? :P
I am wondering if that may not already be in? Given that value changing books are really really rare in worldgen. All the libraries I've been to at the least were filled with academic books, never found a poem, history or value arguing book.
I am wondering if that may not already be in? Given that value changing books are really really rare in worldgen. All the libraries I've been to at the least were filled with academic books, never found a poem, history or value arguing book.I know that books can change an individual's values, but I doubt there's currently any site population scale influencing going on. It would be really great though. I really love the idea of potentially influencing a foreign civ by exporting a bunch of propaganda books to them. Like sending "it concerns the worthlessness of nature" books to the elves or "all leaders must be toppled" kind of stuff. That's why I'm wondering if libraries are going to get that ability to influence the population like the religious buildings are able to.
Well...how realistic is that though?I am wondering if that may not already be in? Given that value changing books are really really rare in worldgen. All the libraries I've been to at the least were filled with academic books, never found a poem, history or value arguing book.I know that books can change an individual's values, but I doubt there's currently any site population scale influencing going on. It would be really great though. I really love the idea of potentially influencing a foreign civ by exporting a bunch of propaganda books to them. Like sending "it concerns the worthlessness of nature" books to the elves or "all leaders must be toppled" kind of stuff. That's why I'm wondering if libraries are going to get that ability to influence the population like the religious buildings are able to.
Well...how realistic is that though?
The religious buildings are representative of priests, monks and other assorted preachers spreading the good word ("Praise suicide!"). Do librarians do the same thing on a massive scale? Revolutionaries, maybe, who would direct people to libraries, but we don't have them yet (besides diligent adventurers) and probably won't until the society/politics update.
Well...how realistic is that though?Realistically it would depend on the population's literacy of course.
The religious buildings are representative of priests, monks and other assorted preachers spreading the good word ("Praise suicide!"). Do librarians do the same thing on a massive scale? Revolutionaries, maybe, who would direct people to libraries, but we don't have them yet (besides diligent adventurers) and probably won't until the society/politics update.
Well, since it's the end of the month, I may as well give it a shot...
What's the Announcement going to be?
...
Too direct?
How about:
Hint please!
Oh, and,
Are you giving a talk at GDC this year?
Well, since it's the end of the month, I may as well give it a shot...
What's the Announcement going to be?
"Are the militaristic mercenary groups viable candidates in the future for alternative starting fort scenarios, they seem pretty fleshed out compared to other groups in a self sufficient way besides say- a travelling band of minstrels" Auldsmen we still haven't got a lot of coverage of, we've seen traders, prophets, mercenaries but only the hints of the honest workers of the guilds.
A second tangental question towing the line of a suggestion i guess: "Will auldsmen also have favourite items contrary to their fluffily assigned 'jobs' that they specialise in or am i reading too much into it based of merc's?" here's to thinking contracting a guildmember with a penchant for scimitars (T&C's apply) could be put to work equipping your dwarves just by being a hired specialist to equip them with freshly forged arms, save them just being a tad useless apprenticeship workshop and maybe a background industrial presence in W.G but we'll see what comes out in devlogs i guess.
Now question,will the mode of Legends change, now without utilities difficult
Why dwarves are only defending, I thought that after the last release they will attack
I heard that you want to change the legends mode, is it possible to do so that in the games themselves they see how some of the known information is wobbling and when exporting there was all the information in XML dump
How do you think when the game is ready in your opinion
People have already started to think when magic and myths will come out in a special topic, you have a date when you want to get an update?
What is your development plan now? Release the villainous update, myths and magic in parts and then what will you do?
Did you ever think of throwing a game?
How long now is the generation of the world now? And in general, the performance of the dwarf fortress
Can mercenary companies downgrade some of their equipment to stay afloat for a while, or is that not something they consider?
Does the equipment belong to the company, or is it awarded to individuals?
I only just now realized, why does the adventurer carpentry menu allow you to craft splints, bins, cabinets, and other items you can't use or build with?
If it was just a straight conversion of the carpenter's workshop's contents it'd make sense, but you correctly omitted being able to make cages (useless in adventure mode as far as I can determine), along with a lot of furniture items you can't place in the construction menu, but ALSO omitted animal traps (available from a carpenter's workshop in fort mode, and useful in adventure mode for trading vermin) and minecarts (which are hilariously useful in adventure mode).
First, is it planned for religiously affiliated mercenary companies to interact with the organized religions that they follow? For example sending guards with prophets/priests/pilgrims of the same religion, or perhaps their members will also undertake pilgrimages themselves? May be jumping ahead in terms of development with this one, been a while since I've read up on the posted future plans.
Second, do the new networking mechanics interact with entity ethics? Namely in regards to the [JUSTIFIED_IF_NO_REPERCUSSIONS] tag? Like say Entity Member A murders Entity Member B in broad daylight, while Entity Member C is the local law enforcement officer who would normally intervene. But in this instance, A has flipped C into their network beforehand, and thus evades the otherwise lawful consequences for their actions. I know this is what happens in the upcoming villain update regardless. But I'm wondering if this might have or be planned to have some special interaction?
How will the new villain networks, mercenary bands and things interact with adventurer mode?
Have you considered allowing adventurers to put points into http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Appraiser at the start of the game, so that we can see goods prices in adventure mode? Or is there some mechanical blocker there?.
Will villains also organize prison breaks for agents they deem useful? Or for potentially useful blackmail victims too, I guess?
Also,
Will the prison sentence system be used for prisoners of war too, or do they get special rules?
How do you imagine the upcoming divine law to interact with civ ethics? Do you think it will override civ ethics, modified by civ ethics, or will civ ethics themselves be modified by divine law? Similarly, will Divine law only be what gods communicate to their followers, or will it also include laws from very practical knowledge like 'going into the forest at night will kill you'+'killing yourself is bad'='don't go into the forest at night, we'll imprison your instead'? Or will that be more of a later development?
Will dwarven tunnels get attached aqueducts/cisterns/waterwells at some point?
Will waterwells become usable in adventure mode, and will drawing water from them be affected by entity ethics such as trespassing and theft?
With exile implemented, will entities with ETHIC:FOO:PUNISH_EXILE be more likely to exile their members instead of beating or imprisoning, and will exiled members be counted as entity members or neutrals for the purposes of ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL?
Will entities gain master persuaders as law enforcers and use them to convert criminals if ETHIC:FOO:PUNISH_REPRIMAND is enabled?
Adventure role: Thief on the development page describes several punishments acceptable to an entity with ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE and adjacent; will entities with a low opinion of torture favor social punishments, imprisonment or exile over these?
Is a system for generating personal ethics based on character personality in the works?
Will scholar research topics unlock buildings, reactions and professions, and will the entity list of same define an entities starting knowledge instead of restricting it?
I'm wondering about the whole "dynamic world" ideas that have been brought up with respect to myths and magic. I got the impression that sphere regions will be dynamic, changing as the magical world is altered (rituals with gods, using artifacts, etc), but I'm wondering if these dynamic changes to biomes might pave the way for less magical, more natural biome alterations. Will natural events cause changes to biomes, or only magic? If we're able to pull the world closer to the fire plane or whatever, melting the poles and creating more fire sphere regions, then might we also see more mundane changes to the natural world? Like, volcanic eruptions creating larger landmasses over the oceans, climate change due to non-magical factors, cold fronts causing temporary changes to biome temperatures and what animals spawn there, disturbance and forest succession, that kind of thing? If none of that is planned for magic, will the dynamism of magical biomes create a framework that at least makes variability in the natural world easier to implement down the line if you want to?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerI guess you won't know yet as it's kind of edge-case, but...
If a spy (either Adventurer or histfig) takes on the identity of a curse-giving god worshipper, would they get cursed by the god after knocking down its statues (Ha! Fooled you. Now I'm a weresloth...) or just cause religious unrest?
Can villains falsely accuse other people of temple desecration if there were no witnesses?Quote from: Eric BlankRelatedly, will anyone at all care about temple desecration in the coming update? Can priests or worshippers of a religion come to hate someone who desecrates their temple? Like spit on/refuse to talk to them or become aggressive? Right now nobody cares how many statues you knock over, and it is kinda weird.
This is completely unrelated to anything in the near future, but a quick question about village/city layouts. Right now villages and cities are organized in neat squares, like a 1930s Soviet apartment block. Obviously, medieval cities (and villages especially) tended to have much more chaotic layouts, with buildings frequently having odd angles between them, streets curving and twisting, etc. I assume that the problems behind implementing such building generation are very similar to the problem with boats?(non-90 degree angles being difficult to simulate with the current graphical system)
In general, when the spatial mechanics behind boats are implemented, do you expect it to be as revolutionary as the addition of the Z-layer? I've just mentioned city layout, but I only now realize how different DF worlds would be in general if they weren't basically locked in a grid
Will we see mercenary companies specialize in other more niche/exotic roles when magic comes around things like band of spellcasters who prefer to fight mounted, a company of wizards/otherwise magically knowledgeable people who control/summon magical beings to be used as warbeasts that they may or may not directly lead in battle and whatnot?
When the subject of seizing position-holders as prisoners is addressed, do you intend to allow the captors to ransom the prisoners, or will they just be locked away for now?
Will the Myth and Magic update add new structures into the game? And if so, what might they be?
It's planned that, when you expel someone, the person will remember that negatively and if they have villainous tendencies, they might want to take revenge on you in some way, right?
Would there be a chance that the same could happen when you decline a visitor's petition request or do they currently not care about it either way when you decline those?
In what ways do spheres impact the appearance of angels at the moment, it impacts what their divine metal looks like, what there little modifiers are (it has a rasping voice or whatever) , but does it actually impact their appearance and if so , in what ways? Are gods with more disturbing spheres creating more disturbing looking angels (Do they create more insecty or spidery ones? Or whatever you feel is disturbing/would disturb people), are gods with more noble spheres creating more noble looking angels (Eg having the angle have a lions head/look like a lion (as lions have always been a symbol for nobility)), Do they impact the materials they are made of? etc.
Now that marriage and dating has been expanded, will we see an entity level value for things like adultery?
EDIT: Also: Since it's a common trope, are Gods creating demigods by breeding with civilized races planned?
I know that torture, even if it makes in as a feature, won't be playable in fort mode because dwarves don't torture, because of their ethics but:
1-Will we get to do it in some way in adventure mode? maybe if you play as a villain, it'd make sense as an intimidation/blackmail thing
2-I've been a great fan of LCS for many years, do you envision the way DF is gonna handle torture as a job , in a similar way to how it was treated in LCS? Does it give you ideas on how to procede with that?
Quote from: iceball3Concerning embezzlement, will this be something the player can take advantage of in any mode aside from legends? Or, in other terms, can the player be in positions where embezzlement is a meaningful act, as opposed to theft or reappropriating siezed wealth? (lords/kings/barons exerting taxes or property siezure)
In the event a player can theoretically commit embezzlement, will performing the act be an explicit manuever that provides one with context of the material ownership, or implicit based on appropriated wares and claims placed on that capital?
Do you plan to implement any jurisdictional forces/association/positions/etc who's task will be to assess ongoing losses and encourage investigations? Or does the bookkeeper largely fill this role in terms of speculative fleshing out of this feature?Quote from: Urist McVoyagerI know we won't be able to tap directly into accounts ourselves, but will we be able to set an official to embezzling for us and receive things like bags of gems or local coinage as a representation?
What does your workflow look like? How does a feature make it into DF from beginning to end?
So, just how worked up can religious people get? Are we going to see escalation up to the point of crusades against an opposing religion's holy city?
Are villains able to use chaotic situations like riots and insurrections as a distraction while they act out their plans(stealing/assassinating/marching the army into town)?
What exactly caused the persecution of the Occult Coven by Stodir? Did he actually hate that religious group in some way or was it just greed plus some random chance?
Can other entity types also become persecuted in ways like this? Corporations, monastic orders, etc? Is it strictly for religious groups for now or could some greedy ruler confiscate the possesions of a corporation, for example?
Some other things I was wondering about these new non-civ entities:
Are entities like corporations, religions, mercenary companies always linked to a parent civilisation or are they separate? When a mercenary company purchases equipment, do they get it from their parent civilisation? So, would a dwarven merc company have access to steel equipment, while a human one does not?
Will we be able to see and visit ruins of a destroyed temple ?
Will we be able to "ask" something like "what is this destroyed building" ? to people ?
Will we be able, as an adventurer, to witness riots ? And will we be able to take part on it without messing with loyalty system ? (attackings citizens based on religious differences without turning the whole city against us)
Will religious riots like this be on the table for fort mode play, say if i make a temple for a human bard troupes most favored deity?
Why dont bard troupes have a patron deity? Thats totally a thing irl, for example in greek traditional theatre it was all dedicated to that one god...
I have some questions about one-way portals:
1. What kinds of creatures might they bring into the world? Will they be relatively normal, or completely alien?
2. Will megabeasts come out of the portals?
3. Will the portals bring items into the world? And if so, what kind?
4. What realms are these portals connected to? Are they afterlifes, or different dimensions entirely?
5. Will the player be able to open them in Fortress mode?
6. How will these portals affect magic and creation myths?
1. Is it planned to reword or remove the "You are a killer" bit when you ask people about your reputation in adventure mode? Being a legendary hero, or legendary hunter, or murderer, already implies you killed something, so why do the NPC's need to tell you "you are a legendary hero you killed x, you are also a killer you killed x", i've been playing adventure mode for years, and i've noticed that people who are new to adventure mode tend to misunderstand what that means , they think the NPC is being accusatory or some such when they say "you are a killer" (since people tend to think that is synonymous with "You are a murderer" when in the game that is not the case) but to the game this literally just means "you are capable of killing things". Why not drop that part, or reword it to something less jarring/redundant? Is there a technical hurdle? Or do you think its fine? Or do you plan to change it?
2. Any plans to flesh out the reputation system (or add new types of reputations, or display NPC reputations (other then enemy) in legends mode.) in general in the next few updates, such as displaying player reputation info in the Quest log?
And a more fun question:
3. Given how many patrons/donators you have now, how do you handle the logistics of drawing all those crayon drawings and writing all those stories? Is this writing basically a full time job for Zach at this point? The story bits you guys send out are all very well made, so he must put alot of thought into each And writing what could easily be hundreds of stories at a time must be quite the challenge.
1. If a player is of a religion that is currently being persecuted would that show in play with them being harassed by their persecutors?
2. Seeing as mercenary companies can be religious might some of them set goals such as killing non believers or driving them out?
3. Would defacing an opposing religions temples be a possible quest priests might give the player in this coming update?
4. If the player adopts a disguise that specifies another deity as their object of worship might they be able to fool the established religion so they can avoid persecution?
Will rock salt ever become an edible item?
Are only towers capable of being restructured, or also houses? Like, will we see opulent villas as well as opulent towers?
What are the plans for knowledge?
1.Will player adventurers be able to buy houses/towers/upgrade them after like the world gen folks can as of the recent dev log?
2.Even if not how will those places and their upgrades carry into play, will the villains tower actually have all the upgrades they bought, will you give them proper maps, will a tower that bought a wall/fortification/dungeon/other upgrade of some kind actually have them for players to deal with (the villain has a tower with a wall so you have to climb the wall to get in the tower, for example)?
3. If they have maps, how much variation will there be so each tower has its own feel?
Is this a preclude to all your ideas for adventurer thievery one of those goals as stated in the dev page:
"Mansions/villas out of the way as well" for them to steal from
And for the merchant role as stated in the dev page:
"Renting/buying cottages and other properties"
Because if so thats amazing. Take all the time you need because whats coming is exciting.
Would be pretty neat to buy my own villa or tower...
Why dont demons go on a rampage throughout the world once you release them or at least do more then just hang around your site? And why do mummies disappear when you leave the site, wouldnt it be much more simulations/interesting if they actually stuck around? It just seems odd given the other features in the game which are far more simulationist and kinda clashes with the reality of the situation.
For the Myth and Myth Release will magic also be found in the form of runes? In many different fantasy settings dwarfs have a great affinity for "rune magic", will we ever see this in Dwarf Fortress as well?
If so, would this form of magic somehow be implemented into the engraving and magic skills? (In the sense that creating a rune would require knowledge in the engraving skill in order to carve the rune into an object, as well as the proper experience in magic to imbue power into the rune.) Or would "Rune Crafting" have it's own skill(s) entirely to differentiate itself?
Lastly, What uses could rune magic have?
(For example: Could magic runes carved onto a weapon/piece of armor give said item special properties such as a rune engraved weapon now causing fire damage or have it deal harder hits in general? Could a rune engraved on a Helmet grant it a better chance at shrugging off blows? As another example, could engraving a rune on an object like a door make it so that it can only be opened by one with sufficient magical knowledge/skill? Or could magical runes be used as a form of "trap" engraved on a tile that could cause a lethal property to activate, for instance say, engulf the tile in flames if a specific creature (ex: a goblin or filthy elf) stepped on it?)
I might be going out on a limb or a tangent here that could quite possibly belong in the suggestions thread, but if something like this was ever implemented it could add a whole new depth for dwarfs interacting with objects as well as their environment.
1)Will bandit groups (player or otherwise) be able to raid a shipment of embezzled goods from one site to another if they find out about the embezzlement, instead of either turning the villain in or blackmailing the person involved?
2)Can a group of bandits lie (since lying about identities is in) and say they're from a mercenary group in order to cause strife between two groups?
3)How likely is it embezzled goods will be encounterable in sites where it's being delivered in play?
4) Will players be able to show up to somebody's house with a horse strapped full of treasure like the Count of Monte Cristo and try to trade for their house before the big wait? If so will house owners take into account artifacts they don't know about in the cost? Will they take their furniture with them if you don't pay enough for it furnished or would that be too goofy?
5)Will villains stash their non-artifact abstract accounts in their houses in secret if their family doesn't know about how they got them?
6)Will villains that value family be more likely to tell someone they stole a cool artifact in their will? Will they be more likely to tell their family they have money or items without revealing its source if they don't trust them to bring them in on villainy?
7)Will more ostentatious villains dress their family and lackeys up fancier the way mercenary groups can equip others?
8)Will haunted furniture night creatures make it in before the big wait?
9) Will people on the street be talking about how "so and so really hit it off at the slots" even if we don't get gambling in play? Will people otherwise comment on unexpected windfalls, expansions being built on large buildings in town, or other signs of the ups and downs of local historical figure's fortunes?
Are false plots a possibility? For instance, a king's agent instigating a false assassination plot against him to draw out and execute traitors.
How can the player-adventurer pick out houses within a town that belonged to a historical figure? Will they be visibly different somehow, or do we ask around for properties? Random merchant houses in current towns all look the same inside and out.
1. Can you list all the new types of buildings we will be seeing in large human sites in this next release?
2. Will special owned buildings be exclusive to massive sites like cities or can smaller sites like towns have them as well? I ask this because it takes a lot longer for cities to form than towns during world gen.
3. If our player adventurers can join mercenary organizations and said organization owns a building will our adventurer gain permission to sleep in that building?
4. Will buildings owned by organizations contain items related to the type of organization that owns the building? For example would a building owned by a mercenary order contain spare weapons and armor?
Who do people actually give their money to when they buy real estate that didn't belong to anyone in a city? Does it go to the site government's coffers?
A while ago in this devlog (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2018-12-07), you talked about how the infrastructure of a site can affect and change the population. Do you have an ability like this planned for libraries in the short term, too? For example, them being able to change the moral values of the site population based on what kind of books are stored in it?
So where did your inspiration for necromancers becoming obsessed with mortality before becoming necromancers, and the fact that they get it off a slab come from? "Now you will know why you fear the night" is a direct quote from conan the barbarian, so i'm sure this has a place it comes from as well.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry for so many questions this time around, but i have alot this month, so heres what happened I killed a vampire who was a king(lawgiver), drank his blood, became a vampire, then assumed a false identity, then became a necromancer, and built a wooden tower with my zombies, as i was building the tower, human soldiers kept intruding on us who my zombies would attack and i would have to kill them, and they kept spitting at me and calling me a murderer for killing their king as my zombies ripped them apart, this was awesome, as it felt like i was a actual dungeon lord dealing with pesky heroes coming to my tower (and they still are, this is my current adventurer save :P ). I have asked on here before if adventurers would go to your camp and you said no, so why is this happening? Is it just hearth patrols sniffing me out? Or is this an intended feature? And if so will it be properly supported/will it be expanded upon in the future, eg full on sieges of my camp by large groups of soldiers. Instead of just soldiers "trickling in" i notice that most of them are also "recruits"
What's the Announcement going to be?
...
Too direct?
How about:
Hint please!
Oh, and,
Are you giving a talk at GDC this year?
With the map rewrite, were you also planning to make it easy for sites to dynamically resize? Like, for example, Dwarves digging down greedily, but also perhaps surface towns expanding.
I thought it might help a lot with situations where the player's fort map is slowing down because 250 cave horses are trying to path through the third cave, and I wasn't sure whether to expect that from the rewrite.
Just a few questionsLime-green if these are questions for Toady
1) When will you be able to butcher sentient creatures after an ethics change and then use the gleaned bones/meat to make food/bone goods?
2) Can features that aren't planned to work for Dwarves specifically still be encoded, especially for modders and fiddlers?
3) Are there any plans for making cobaltite useful?
4) Are there plans for a thievery/stealth skill for stealth squads which you can use against your enemies to steal artifacts (like Kobolds & Goblins) as well as babystealing missions should you choose to go evil or modify your ethics to allow that?
5) Are there plans to fix the glitches related to fortress mode necromancers where the things they revive are still hostile to them?
Thank you for another big post, Toady! I rarely play DF nowadays but I still read all the devlogs with relish.Try playing adventure mode sometime, the rumour system ensures you're always aware of something, and the world activation makes it so there's always something happening. It might not always be something you can do, and eventually megabeasts will run out, but villains will always crop up, I suspect.
A question about your general vision (not the short-time stuff):
Many stories and games (both video and PnP) implicitly involve some level of "dramatic convenience", e.g. a mayor's daughter gets kidnapped just as your party is visiting the town, or you stay at a tavern and just happen to overhear a villainous plan, or the protagonist randomly finds a magic McGuffin ring in a river. What is your opinion on such things? Would you include an option for the game to behave that way (to nudge/induce interesting events) if you could? Is it even doable? The kidnapped daughter example above, for instance, would involve rewriting the near past, as the game can't predict which town will you visit next, and the kidnapping has to happen in advance.
I'm asking because in real life epic adventures are rare, and I fear a realistic medieval simulation may be a tad boring.
I remember you mentioning an option to stop worldgen just as something big is about to occur, but it's not quite the same thing as it fits the player to the world, not the other way around.
Another question, on the myth generator:Not really an answer, but we didn't evolve from gorillas? (We share a common ancestor that as far as I can tell looked like a tailed monkey) Still that'd imply that mythgen takes into account tens and thousands of years.
As there are going to be various race-creation myths, is a good old Darwinesque natural selection on the table? Either as a divine myth ("the mountain apes were our holy ancestors and diligent work made them into what we are now"), or as something scholars could discover (even contrary to preexisting myths)? Or is it not medieval enough?
Yeah, I don't recall the specifics but this is very likely to just be unfinished features mishmashed with me maybe thinking I was going to be able to add e.g. adv mode medical and didn't in fact get to it (which has happened a few times). Hopefully it will come to make sense over time. As Shonai_Dweller mentions, we have another good crack at it slated in the possible near-term dev section, and how that plays out is going to depend on what stuff feels like after the villain release etc. etc. dust settles.
Just a few questionsLime-green if these are questions for Toady
1) When will you be able to butcher sentient creatures after an ethics change and then use the gleaned bones/meat to make food/bone goods?
2) Can features that aren't planned to work for Dwarves specifically still be encoded, especially for modders and fiddlers?
3) Are there any plans for making cobaltite useful?
4) Are there plans for a thievery/stealth skill for stealth squads which you can use against your enemies to steal artifacts (like Kobolds & Goblins) as well as babystealing missions should you choose to go evil or modify your ethics to allow that?
5) Are there plans to fix the glitches related to fortress mode necromancers where the things they revive are still hostile to them?
1) When any bug is fixed. Some time in the future - No fixed schedule.
2) All features are to be used with non-Dwarves. Post Mythgen, we'll get world's without dwarves at all to play with (besides, Adventurer is already non-Dwarves). You should probably ask something more specific here.
4) Current release. Send a squad, it uses stealthy skills to steal artifacts (and socks, and camels). (Babysnatching isn't in yet, but apparently it uses the same structures, so could be switched on easily enough).
5) Bugs are not features. They are actually unintentional. As a result, contrary to popular belief, there are plans to fix bugs. Because, they are bugs. No schedule obviously.
Edit
To clarify somewhat.
Bugs are generally looked at when that part of the game is being worked on. So, magic will feature a whole bunch of master-zombie relationship work which increases the chances of bugs being looked at then.
On the other hand, Toady sometimes just fixes bugs if he feels like it during the inter-development bug-fixing phases especially if they don't involve majorly rewriting everything.
But, best not to hold your breath for your particular pet bug to be addressed here. Bug tracker is hundreds of pages long...
1. I'm up for rewording it, but I think the reputation type has a place in the game. It's a specific and rare thing, killing people, and it has its own meaning. It's not about capability of "killing things", but more about the act of taking a life, which, though it might be justified, is a non-trivial matter and might change how people view you (hence, a reputation), not that this has yet jelled in any significant way in the game. But I think there are important distinctions to be made here, on top of murderer/hunter/hero reps (and a hero rep in particular won't always be purely death related.)
So if I recall correctly, this villain update was originally intended to be the last update before a Long Wait. Given how much it's ballooned, are you still planning to start the Long Wait as soon as it's finished? Or are you considering this its own Long Wait that you'll be doing rapid-fire bugfixes after?No, that was never the plan. And still isn't.
Will you ever make the myth generator you showed off at GDC in 2016 downloadable? I would quite enjoy playing with it and modding it and stuff. I am a game dev myself so it would be cool to just read through a few of the creation myths (without having to read only screenshots) just have a little text blurb that says, "THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT THE FINAL MYTH GENERATOR AT ALL!" In bold next to the link to stave off any untoured expectations or some such.
Quote from: KittyTacWould you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.
I'd prefer not to do this. I think it both has the bar too high in some places (effect lists, at least for release one, probably) and too low in others (most everything else.) It's not reflective enough of what I want to do, and I don't want expectations to coalesce around it overmuch.
Do you plan to ever give dungeons/sewers/catacombs proper animal populations/incursions? It would be cool to fight the giant rats in the sewer/basement (prolific fantasy trope)Sewers at least were going to have animal populations. The devlog noted that hippos had moved into a particular one. Not sure what went wrong there that they don't dwell there now.
Priest: “yeah so the giant rats built a nest in the catacombs, could you clear it out for us”
Do you plan to ever give dungeons/sewers/catacombs proper animal populations/incursions? It would be cool to fight the giant rats in the sewer/basement (prolific fantasy trope)Sewers at least were going to have animal populations. The devlog noted that hippos had moved into a particular one. Not sure what went wrong there that they don't dwell there now.
Priest: “yeah so the giant rats built a nest in the catacombs, could you clear it out for us”
Are there any plans for us to be able to play races other than dwarves, such as a fully fleshed out structure for goblins, humans, etc?1. You can already play as them in adventure mode and explore their sites and such in adventure mode and see their political structure also in adventure mode . But presumably you mean fort mode. He has talked before about that. It’s planned.
Are there any plans to allow us to optionally manually control raids/pillages/invasions and be transported to the battlefield instead of only seeing a report after-the-fact?
Are there any plans to make roads actually traversed? I was thinking of making a fort on the roads and halting anyone passing by, but no one ever came unless they were specifically coming to my fort.
Are there any plans for us to be able to play races other than dwarves in fort mode, such as a fully fleshed out structure for goblins, humans, etc?Adding to Untrustedlife's answer to the first question: One of the things planned for Myth & Magic is the introduction of generated races, as well as fully mundane worlds where fantasy races don't exist (i.e. only boring old humies, no cavern critters, and probably no magma sea). In order for fully mundane worlds to be playable at all in fortress mode, humans will have to be playable (it's possible to play them now with with minor raw changes, but they'll just essentially be human looking dwarves). Making generated races playable is probably harder than making generic elven/human/goblin type races playable (i.e. races generated close to the current location of DF worlds on the future magic/bizarre/... slider scales), although all of it may not make it into the first Myth & Magic arc.
Are there any plans to allow us to optionally manually control raids/pillages/invasions and be transported to the battlefield instead of only seeing a report after-the-fact?
Are there any plans to make roads actually traversed? I was thinking of making a fort on the roads and halting anyone passing by, but no one ever came unless they were specifically coming to my fort.
Are there any plans for us to be able to play races other than dwarves in fort mode, such as a fully fleshed out structure for goblins, humans, etc?And, one more. Check out the Dev notes (older version, but it all still applies). Humans, elves, goblins for site play.
Are there any plans to allow us to optionally manually control raids/pillages/invasions and be transported to the battlefield instead of only seeing a report after-the-fact?
Are there any plans to make roads actually traversed? I was thinking of making a fort on the roads and halting anyone passing by, but no one ever came unless they were specifically coming to my fort.
It might be too much work to support them, and it would be pretty simple to ensure that one of the procgen'd races ticks enough of the fort mode necessities. Mainly the digging part, since outdoor constructions are still clunky. If we get to a point where an outdoor race would be fun to play, and has enough of its other bells and whistles respected, I'd be fine with that. It just doesn't feel like we are quite there. Overall though, I think procedural fort races will build a bit of that development pressure, the way things often work, since supporting their other quirks will be something that can be done more piecemeal without it feeling utterly broken... and then suddenly I might realize or be reminded, "oh, human castle mode is basically ready" or something like that. (naturally, the 17x17 sites wouldn't be supported due to memory concerns** -- another road into this is the scenario-related smaller work sites that everybody will have; "human lumber camp" is another possible path to playable humans.)Source: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7724610;topicseen#msg7724610
** (though without digging and with the map-rewrite, loading a 17x17 human embark suddenly becomes totally feasible, as the deep elevations which would normally blow-out memory and create an underground-life pathing nightmare could simply be ignored; though citizen path-finding would probably be slightly more costly as the map would be less compact -- that doesn't mean we'd be able to have all 10000 citizens of one of those human capitals loaded, but it does mean you could play a 200 person human 'town' with a small market and have the usual FPS problems, but no more than that)
prison-colony-on-a-magical-mountain-run-by-wizards-that-are-an-offshoot-of-a-dwarven-civ-and-they-are-also-a-mercenary-band-mode
QuoteIt might be too much work to support them, and it would be pretty simple to ensure that one of the procgen'd races ticks enough of the fort mode necessities. Mainly the digging part, since outdoor constructions are still clunky. If we get to a point where an outdoor race would be fun to play, and has enough of its other bells and whistles respected, I'd be fine with that. It just doesn't feel like we are quite there. Overall though, I think procedural fort races will build a bit of that development pressure, the way things often work, since supporting their other quirks will be something that can be done more piecemeal without it feeling utterly broken... and then suddenly I might realize or be reminded, "oh, human castle mode is basically ready" or something like that. (naturally, the 17x17 sites wouldn't be supported due to memory concerns** -- another road into this is the scenario-related smaller work sites that everybody will have; "human lumber camp" is another possible path to playable humans.)Source: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7724610;topicseen#msg7724610
** (though without digging and with the map-rewrite, loading a 17x17 human embark suddenly becomes totally feasible, as the deep elevations which would normally blow-out memory and create an underground-life pathing nightmare could simply be ignored; though citizen path-finding would probably be slightly more costly as the map would be less compact -- that doesn't mean we'd be able to have all 10000 citizens of one of those human capitals loaded, but it does mean you could play a 200 person human 'town' with a small market and have the usual FPS problems, but no more than that)
:)
... Will there still be a sort of 'Wizard tower' mode for wizards(as per old dev notes), or will our interaction with wizards be primarily adventure mode shenanigans with occasionally a wizard histfig messing things up in fortmode? Or is everything just gonna melt together and we'll see prison-colony-on-a-magical-mountain-run-by-wizards-that-are-an-offshoot-of-a-dwarven-civ-and-they-are-also-a-mercenary-band-mode?
Loved the answers this time around, getting so hyped for villains! :D Here's a question I forgot to post for said FoTF post.Retired adventurers become regular historical figures right now.
With the expansion to relationships between historical figures that's been discussed for this pass, are there any plans to do the same (in the background of course) for player adventurers? I remember reading somewhere that currently adventurers don't have any romantic/sexual orientation which results in them not doing things like taking lovers or getting married and having children. The fact they will stay with their previous traveling companions where they retired is pretty nice. But for a player like myself, where being able to get an adventurer to retirement is something of a rarity, it'd be kind of nice to know my former adventurer became more of a part of the world aside from whatever accomplishments they achieved after I take my focus away from them.
Retired adventurers become regular historical figures right now.
They don't do an awful lot, but in the big scheme of things neither do many others. Perhaps there will be more for them to do with the new update.
What would be interesting to know is:
Is there anything you've hard-coded into retired adventurers to prevent them from certain activities (besides relationships which I think you've mentioned before). So things like joining merc bands, becoming a goblin poet master's apprentice, etc?
I've had a retired adventurer die because they were in a town attacked by goblins(and they fought against the goblins, killing a few before succumbing).It's also, from a technical point of view, simply because if you retire a heterosexual adventurer, get married and have kids, then unretire, Toady has to write dialogue and basic behaviour for interactions with spouse and kids.
The primary reason adventurers don't get married is because they're asexual, and they are asexual because the guys didn't want to force the sexuality of the character on the player(so, if you wanted to play a homosexual, you don't have to cope with the character being hardcoded to bisexual, etc.) but it's going to take until a relationship-interaction overhaul before adventurers can actually do anything. Hopefully they can get friends when retired next version, even if they could only be war buddies(fairs don't happen post-worlgen)...
I wonder how new players will react when eventually you can set your character's sexual orientation in a very fine-tuned way as soon as you start adventurer mode.
(As currently in character generation you already have fine grain control over all your personality facets, and under the hood sexual orientation is represented by a bunch of different values rather than just a switch between homosexual, heterosexual, asexual, etc. I'd expect that once the player adventurer can have romantic relationships the player will have full control over that rather than just a list of options.)
Hm? Yeah, that's why it can't be like most games where we just assume that all PCs are bisexual. Here characters can end up making decisions without the player's direct input.And just like the way we can make our pacifist adventurers murder rabbits by the bucketload (with only a trace of tears to represent the trapped pacifist soul screaming at its lack of control), we'll be able to play adventurers any how we like, regardless of sexuality setting.
I think Egan was making a 'oh, DF is sooo detailed, even x has twenty sliders'-joke, because most people aren't considering sexuality in terms of commitment for example. :)
I hope we'll see more 'adventures affecting the adventurer'. I know there's like a simple trauma simulation in form of an alcohol dependency, but I've never played an adventurer long enough to know whether the dwarf style remembering also affects them, and I suspect the eventual idea is to have the player's intentions to play a psychopathic murderer also be reflected in the character so they behave appropriately afterwards...
1: Will magic users be able to effect the geography of the world?1. Indirectly as a minimum, i.e. summoning/performing rituals that result in changes/releasing powerful entities that affect changes, etc/changing cosmic power balances that result in a different sphere dominating. Probably not in the first Myth & Magic release, though.
2: Will magic users be able to play with physics in any way? As in gravity say?
3: If so, (after boats are implemented I would assume) would fortresses in the middle of the ocean be possible? If able, a magician could part the ocean for long enough to build the framework, for example.
4: Also if so, would floating fortresses be possible in any form?
5: In adventure mode, will flying ships be implemented in anyway, or even be possible? I just really want to descend on an unsuspecting town from the sky to raid and pillage.
I think Egan was making a 'oh, DF is sooo detailed, even x has twenty sliders'-joke, because most people aren't considering sexuality in terms of commitment for example. :)
(I mean, unless testing shows that worldgen just breaks down into volcano spewing megawars obliterating civilization every time...).
Oh yes, absolutely. :)(I mean, unless testing shows that worldgen just breaks down into volcano spewing megawars obliterating civilization every time...).
I mean it would be cool for that to happen sometimes...
Worlds where various magic bullshit is available to lots of potentially-irresponsible people are likely to be the more surprising and entertaining ones, at least until other truly world-changing things exist.
What are the societal implications of every single dwarf having a magical ability to kill any creature with a touch? Maybe they're too dangerous to be allowed into human cities, and have complicated laws to keep that power in check. Or maybe dwarven lands are just a chaotic murder-realm which sometimes unleashes an extremely deadly deathtouch martial artist on an unsuspecting world.
Of course it's rather optimistic that the game will be able to handle setups like that gracefully at first. But things should still be fun in high randomness high magic worlds.
I think Egan was making a 'oh, DF is sooo detailed, even x has twenty sliders'-joke, because most people aren't considering sexuality in terms of commitment for example. :)
There's a part of my brain that's always looking for jokes or funny things or unusual angles to insert that will draw conversation in a direction more entertaining to me.[/spoiler]me_irl
QuoteIt might be too much work to support them, and it would be pretty simple to ensure that one of the procgen'd races ticks enough of the fort mode necessities. Mainly the digging part, since outdoor constructions are still clunky. If we get to a point where an outdoor race would be fun to play, and has enough of its other bells and whistles respected, I'd be fine with that. It just doesn't feel like we are quite there. Overall though, I think procedural fort races will build a bit of that development pressure, the way things often work, since supporting their other quirks will be something that can be done more piecemeal without it feeling utterly broken... and then suddenly I might realize or be reminded, "oh, human castle mode is basically ready" or something like that. (naturally, the 17x17 sites wouldn't be supported due to memory concerns** -- another road into this is the scenario-related smaller work sites that everybody will have; "human lumber camp" is another possible path to playable humans.)Source: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7724610;topicseen#msg7724610
** (though without digging and with the map-rewrite, loading a 17x17 human embark suddenly becomes totally feasible, as the deep elevations which would normally blow-out memory and create an underground-life pathing nightmare could simply be ignored; though citizen path-finding would probably be slightly more costly as the map would be less compact -- that doesn't mean we'd be able to have all 10000 citizens of one of those human capitals loaded, but it does mean you could play a 200 person human 'town' with a small market and have the usual FPS problems, but no more than that)
:)
... Will there still be a sort of 'Wizard tower' mode for wizards(as per old dev notes), or will our interaction with wizards be primarily adventure mode shenanigans with occasionally a wizard histfig messing things up in fortmode? Or is everything just gonna melt together and we'll see prison-colony-on-a-magical-mountain-run-by-wizards-that-are-an-offshoot-of-a-dwarven-civ-and-they-are-also-a-mercenary-band-mode?
Adventure mode shenanigans CAN include managing your wizards tower if you have one. He has talked about running sites in adventure mode in the df talks many times before, you would give orders and all that stuff, much like fort mode, just, more directly. And your underlings will then run off and do the work while you do your wizard stuff. Just imagine running around, giving your workers orders. And them doing them. Or you giving your underlings orders, who then tell their underlings to do orders, who then do them.
Site management doesn't need to be limited to fort mode. You can run a site from your characters perspective by giving orders.
Hi!I think 4 would be tremendous.
My english is not so good, so sorry for probable mistakes.
I have some questions/suggestions for Fortress Mode:
1) More suggestion, than question. Wild animal people and some creatures like trolls, gorlaks and troglodits [CAN_LEARN]. How about possibility to train them, when they encaged, making them a citisens of your fortress? They are almost useless now, but can be very useful for creating of multinational fortresses.
2) About religions. Will there be a possibility for dwarfs (or others) in your fortress to found a new religion? Maybe as a very rare happening? Or this only world-creational option?
3) Can religions spread with books? How about optional holy bibles for some of them?))
4) About mecenaries. Can they recruit citizens of your fortress for their band? Maybe, unhappy citisens will be willing to leave fortress and join such bands, and they will file a petition, denying which will cause even more bad thoughts?
Yes, this is been answered in basically every other thread and I thought it was answered in the previous post by meph but apparently it wasn'tOh good. There are an awful lot of very busy threads right now. I didn't spot it. So, it's a Tarn developed enhancement, not something by Kitfox? (Just a link to "all the other threads" is fine).
"Will the free, classic version of DF have the same modding and graphical support as the Steam version?"http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173473.0
Meph: Yes.
Yes, as far as I understand it, the only relationship kitfox has is 'wrangling steam and itch and small legal stuff so Tarn doesn't have to learn it'.Might be good to point out though that Kitfox will get a portion of the revenue from the steam and itch sales:
If you don't mind me asking; the circumstances of the Steam launch are troubling. Do you ever go jogging, bike riding, etc.?Healthcare is helpful when someone hits you with a truck while out jogging/cycling too. So, regardless of the answer he'd probably choose to go Steam anyhow.
If you don't mind me asking; the circumstances of the Steam launch are troubling. Do you ever go jogging, bike riding, etc.?
I go bike riding. :DYes, bike riding is fun.
(See my sig.)
Me too!I go bike riding. :DYes, bike riding is fun.
(See my sig.)
*calms down*
> re: schedule. Villains -> fixes -> code for steam -> steam release -> whatever panicky stuff needs to be fixed -> pre-magic other stuff (armies, adv med, wtvr) -> magic big wait
2. Do you intend to change the way you work as a result of this? I'm primarily aiming the question at how you deal with bugs during the rather long (semi) major development cycles, as a Long Wait with a growing pile of reported bugs and no bug fixes is likely to result in DF being labeled as abandonware by many. I expect a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth concerning bugs whatever you do due to the nature of DF and its development, but some outcomes are worse than others.From the Reddit AMA:
It's early and we haven't gotten to the initial release, so I haven't thought too much about plans for the intermittent waits. Certainly we are now planning to be able to fix bugs a little more easily during waits -- for instance, we had that weapon trap crash bug that lasted all through one of them, and that was not good. So we'll plan for patches concurrent with feature work now. At the same time, the development works the way it works because so many systems are interconnected; sometimes a long wait is just the best way to go, at least the way I conceive of things. If that causes some issues, or some dips, then, well, I hope we'll be fine! If we have to adjust again, like we're adjusting now, we will.
Not sure if there's any kind of netiquette regarding these things, but gathered up those parts of the reddit AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/b147yh/im_tarn_aka_toady_one_dwarf_fortress_is_coming_to/?depth=10) (with a bit of pruning) that felt relevant to development for those that don't want to sift through the whole thing.You missed a few including my own question but all in all not bad.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You missed a few including my own question but all in all not bad.
I say let 'em go insane trying to render maggot people. :)I agree with this. I hope Toady won't let graphical considerations stop him from creating the most extreme fantasy world generator.
That is awesome to hear. I hope there will be some cool stories stemming from that.Quote from: Death DragonIt's planned that, when you expel someone, the person will remember that negatively and if they have villainous tendencies, they might want to take revenge on you in some way, right?Yeah, I should set that up -- I've made a note. As PatrikLundell said, they have personality-based reactions to it already, and if it does upset them greatly, it should be able to be the basis of a vendetta if they have the proper tendencies.
Would there be a chance that the same could happen when you decline a visitor's petition request or do they currently not care about it either way when you decline those?
This is amazingly interesting to me. I didn't know it was already possibly for books to change the values of a civilisation. This isn't something you can currently look up in legends mode, is it?Quote from: Death DragonA while ago in this devlog (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2018-12-07), you talked about how the infrastructure of a site can affect and change the population. Do you have an ability like this planned for libraries in the short term, too? For example, them being able to change the moral values of the site population based on what kind of books are stored in it?Libraries have an effect in world gen in the currently released version, based on the original and copied books that are there. Every year, each library gets five turns to pick a book. If the book has a poetic/music/dance form, it has a chance to make that form well-known in the entire parent civ, as a form of cultural diffusion. If the book promotes a value at a certain level, it makes a roll against the author's skill roll when they made the book. The local site civ can have their values shifted by 1-2 point (it takes 10 or more to change the visible text for the value), and the parent civ can also be shifted a point, and all sites under the parent civ have a chance to be shifted a point as well. It's a very rough system (and it doesn't respond gracefully based on the number of books, etc. etc.), but there's something there.
There are ongoing discussions regarding the new graphics over in the mod/tilesets forum with Meph & Mayday (who are making them). Held weapons and such can be seen in the sprites, while clothing seems to be undergoing debate (dyed red tunic should be red, or colours should match profession as in Classic, etc). Facial hair and hairstyles are hoped for too.
Now that there are people other than you looking at graphics, another at music and presumably someone thinking about achievements and stuff, how do you want the Suggestions to work from now on? Continue to throw everything into the Bay12 Suggestions forum and you'll pass on anything you think you want in your game? Or some other way to pass on Suggestions directly?The people involved shouldn't have any great problems with locating relevant Suggestion sub forum threads, so my opinion (not being Toady, of course) is that the sub forum should work well regardless of the type of suggestions, although suggestion writers may want to try to keep suggestions that would target different people separated into different threads. At the end of the day, it would be Toady who made the decision, of course, but there's no reason for the various people in the implementation team not to communicate (via the tread or privately) to build a basis for a decision.
I mean managing dwarfes and searching in most game windows provided by them is hard to overestimate.
Will the steam version of the game have 3rd party utilities most people used to have like dfhack and dwarf therapist? I mean managing dwarfes and searching in most game windows provided by them is hard to overestimate. Or maybe the steam version will have the same functionality introduced?If I've understood the discussion correctly, the commercial and Classic versions should be sufficiently similar that tools made for one version would generally work with the other. I find it hard to see an LNP for the commercial versions, unless it would somehow locate the installed game and then wrap the utilities in with it, but it would probably still have to be distinct from the LNPs we have now. Ironically, the commercial version users may see more of a problem getting easy access to the tools than the Classic one, which probably isn't good from a commercial standpoint. It might be a good idea for Toady to discuss how external tools such as DT and DFHack based ones can be added/removed easily (and while I'm on the advice soap box, the Kitfox people might want to consider a "tutorial" consisting of a canned world and pre selected embark location with pre selected dorfs and equipment where the world is copied before start [to allow the tutorial to be started from scratch again]).
If I've understood the discussion correctly, the commercial and Classic versions should be sufficiently similar that tools made for one version would generally work with the other. I find it hard to see an LNP for the commercial versions, unless it would somehow locate the installed game and then wrap the utilities in with it, but it would probably still have to be distinct from the LNPs we have now. Ironically, the commercial version users may see more of a problem getting easy access to the tools than the Classic one, which probably isn't good from a commercial standpoint. It might be a good idea for Toady to discuss how external tools such as DT and DFHack based ones can be added/removed easily (and while I'm on the advice soap box, the Kitfox people might want to consider a "tutorial" consisting of a canned world and pre selected embark location with pre selected dorfs and equipment where the world is copied before start [to allow the tutorial to be started from scratch again]).
As Shonai_Dweller indicated, ArtemiusTheHuman's suggestions are mainly suggestions, and belong in the suggestions forum, where Toady will have a greater chance of acting on them (questions in this thread are read, answered, and forgotten [i.e. no particular action is taken after that], while suggestions are looked at from time to time).
1. ...dwarven ethics doesn't allow for slavery, and that presumably includes veiled versions of it, such as indenture, caste stratified societies, etc...
Quote from: DGWith minor modding the current game allows fort mode to be played with humans, goblins, elves and even kobolds. Presumably this hasn't made it into vanilla because they aren't as feature complete as dwarves and not yet differentiated enough. Is the work around the myth generator likely to change this? I assume some work will need to go into shoe-horning randomly generated high-magic-world races into fortress mode and am wondering if you think this will end up incorporating the original races as playable in vanilla at the same time or if they will wait for their own specific releases focused on the features you want present before making them playable?
It might be too much work to support them, and it would be pretty simple to ensure that one of the procgen'd races ticks enough of the fort mode necessities. Mainly the digging part, since outdoor constructions are still clunky. If we get to a point where an outdoor race would be fun to play, and has enough of its other bells and whistles respected, I'd be fine with that. It just doesn't feel like we are quite there. Overall though, I think procedural fort races will build a bit of that development pressure, the way things often work, since supporting their other quirks will be something that can be done more piecemeal without it feeling utterly broken... and then suddenly I might realize or be reminded, "oh, human castle mode is basically ready" or something like that. (naturally, the 17x17 sites wouldn't be supported due to memory concerns** -- another road into this is the scenario-related smaller work sites that everybody will have; "human lumber camp" is another possible path to playable humans.)
** (though without digging and with the map-rewrite, loading a 17x17 human embark suddenly becomes totally feasible, as the deep elevations which would normally blow-out memory and create an underground-life pathing nightmare could simply be ignored; though citizen path-finding would probably be slightly more costly as the map would be less compact -- that doesn't mean we'd be able to have all 10000 citizens of one of those human capitals loaded, but it does mean you could play a 200 person human 'town' with a small market and have the usual FPS problems, but no more than that)
Will the first villain release have any graphics changes? Or will all of them start after that.From Toady on the Discord:
> re: schedule. Villains -> fixes -> code for steam -> steam release -> whatever panicky stuff needs to be fixed -> pre-magic other stuff (armies, adv med, wtvr) -> magic big wait
The data structure for music is that a piece generally refers to the musical form (but sometimes the form is used directly), so it should be possible for several pieces to be based on the same form (if I've understood what you mean with "themes" correctly). If, instead, the question is about copyright for real world attempts at creating DF based music I can't answer, but it would be useful to clarify the question if that's the case.
:
4- If I were a composer who used the rules of a procedural musical form, would I be free to create several themes respecting the rules or is it quite restrictive?
Quite likely eventually and in general terms. Embark scenarios will presumably explore as diverse set of starts as possible, but obviously won't be able to cover every possible variant. It's probably way too early to predict what's going to appear or not. I'm sure Toady has some kind of candidate list, but candidates will probably be tossed out if they cause too much trouble, and new ones can appear on a whim or as a result of emerging possibilities and suggestions. I doubt Toady would be willing to show any candidate list beyond what's on the dev page at this stage, though. People have an unfortunate tendency to read "promise" into the word "candidate" and get upset when "their" candidate didn't make it (but he's made a candidate list experiment with villainy, so maybe).
when you get to embarks/scenarios and such and forts having a purpose, will that tie in with current villian/hero/historical figure motivations and schemes? i.e. could a powerful noble establish a military fort with the express purpose of increasing his power? or a temple to increase his prestige or something?
Hey Tarn, any plans for implementing a justice/security system to go with Villains?
ATM, I can walk out with a towns entire warehouse and not be bothered by even a single concerned citizen. I'd imagine that under realistic circumstances, there would be a few guards on the warehouse, mayhaps with the ability to encourage them to turn a blind eye?
If you don't mind me asking; the circumstances of the Steam launch are troubling. Do you ever go jogging, bike riding, etc.?
Healthcare is helpful when someone hits you with a truck while out jogging/cycling too. So, regardless of the answer he'd probably choose to go Steam anyhow.
It was because of a cancer scare, jogging wont save you from cancer.
One can get cancer no matter how healthy they are.
[...]
Insensitive question. I guess maybe you didnt know it was about cancer.
Tarn, I was wondering what your personal opinion is on some of the debates/ideas happening in the Steam suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173532.0) and tileset threads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0)?You're probably going to have to be more specific unless you're just bringing the thread to his attention.
Hey Tarn, any plans for implementing a justice/security system to go with Villains?
ATM, I can walk out with a towns entire warehouse and not be bothered by even a single concerned citizen. I'd imagine that under realistic circumstances, there would be a few guards on the warehouse, mayhaps with the ability to encourage them to turn a blind eye?
Hey Tarn, any plans for implementing a justice/security system to go with Villains?
ATM, I can walk out with a towns entire warehouse and not be bothered by even a single concerned citizen. I'd imagine that under realistic circumstances, there would be a few guards on the warehouse, mayhaps with the ability to encourage them to turn a blind eye?
1. How much do you think Dwarf Fortress will cost on steam?
2. With the switch from ascii to graphics will there be any graphics for what a creature is wearing? I ask this because it breaks my immersion a little to see a creature visually wearing one thing then when I check on them with the look command I find out they are wearing something else.
3. Will steam mods for Dwarf Fortress need to have graphics?
4. Will there be any indicator on the steam workshop for if mods are incompatible with each other or will we just need to test it out by running the game and seeing if it crashes?
4 would be the same as any other game. Mod creator will let you know if it's compatible or not. Only they know. Expect total overhaul mods to probably not be.1. How much do you think Dwarf Fortress will cost on steam?
2. With the switch from ascii to graphics will there be any graphics for what a creature is wearing? I ask this because it breaks my immersion a little to see a creature visually wearing one thing then when I check on them with the look command I find out they are wearing something else.
3. Will steam mods for Dwarf Fortress need to have graphics?
4. Will there be any indicator on the steam workshop for if mods are incompatible with each other or will we just need to test it out by running the game and seeing if it crashes?
1. 19.99$
2. To some extent yes, the details are not yet set though (seems we'll at the very least have accurate sprites for armor and weapons). Meph and Mayday (the guys making the tileset) have a thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0) up in the modding section with more details/discussion/feedback on it if you're interested.
3. There'll be an option to use either tileset graphics or ascii for the steam version, so nope.
No idea on the fourth one.
Ah, but that does raise a different interesting question:Ascii mods will still be Ascii. Steam version comes with Ascii tileseset (and is exactly the same, except with the new tileseset, sounds and music).
What kind of fallback mechanisms are you considering for situations in which unique graphics won't be possible, such as mods?
- A wider selection of dyes
- A wider selection of dyes
I think we already have what we need - Red Green Blue. All that is needed is reactions to mix, oh and Silver Dye (sic) to become an alpha layer. :P
I've read through the thread on the new tile sets, and seen that it appears clothing will be reflected on the characters. I expect that will result in a more or less immediate demand for control over clothing in Fortress Mode in the form of:Did they reach a conclusion in the public thread? There was some discussion, but the main argument from Meph seemed to be that they won't do it (except for military) for the exact reasons you've listed here (not enough dyes, too many combos, more confusing than vanilla colour coded professions, etc).
- Control over which types of clothing characters use (both in the "I refuse to play a game where guys wear dresses" vein and in the "I want different groups to wear different clothing as per my instructions" style), as well as the color of their clothing.
- A wider selection of dyes, especially with a wider color palette for the game itself.
Is this something you intend to address before the commercial version launches (e.g. in conjunction with military uniform UI overhaul), or something that would be addressed when (and if) the issue appears? It's not on my top priority list, but I suspect not dealing with it will have a negative impact on DF reception at launch.
The reason I've made this a question rather than a suggestion is that it's tied to the commercial launch, and so is time constrained.
I'm sorry if you knew this already :D
As far as I understood the direction was a clothing display with a sash color to indicate labor (and possibly pip's or something to indicate skill level). I finished reading the thread about 24 hours ago, so new posts have probably been added since, but the clothing discussion had died down at that point.I've read through the thread on the new tile sets, and seen that it appears clothing will be reflected on the characters. I expect that will result in a more or less immediate demand for control over clothing in Fortress Mode in the form of:Did they reach a conclusion in the public thread? There was some discussion, but the main argument from Meph seemed to be that they won't do it (except for military) for the exact reasons you've listed here (not enough dyes, too many combos, more confusing than vanilla colour coded professions, etc).
- Control over which types of clothing characters use (both in the "I refuse to play a game where guys wear dresses" vein and in the "I want different groups to wear different clothing as per my instructions" style), as well as the color of their clothing.
- A wider selection of dyes, especially with a wider color palette for the game itself.
Is this something you intend to address before the commercial version launches (e.g. in conjunction with military uniform UI overhaul), or something that would be addressed when (and if) the issue appears? It's not on my top priority list, but I suspect not dealing with it will have a negative impact on DF reception at launch.
The reason I've made this a question rather than a suggestion is that it's tied to the commercial launch, and so is time constrained.
I've read through the thread on the new tile sets, and seen that it appears clothing will be reflected on the characters. I expect that will result in a more or less immediate demand for control over clothing in Fortress Mode in the form of:The law and customs update might handle gender roles and gendered clothing. Ceding control of development goals to butthurt bigots on steam would be a dumb idea.
- Control over which types of clothing characters use (both in the "I refuse to play a game where guys wear dresses" vein and in the "I want different groups to wear different clothing as per my instructions" style), as well as the color of their clothing.
The reason I've made this a question rather than a suggestion is that it's tied to the commercial launch, and so is time constrained.
I don't really care about those who demand gender specific clothing, but I think that's something that can be achieved easily if desired with a functionality that allows you to define what each dorf and group of dorfs wear for easier grouping, identification, and aesthetic reasons, and it seems color coordination and playing dress-up are fairly popular occupations.They also said "no naked dwarves" over there too. So it seems like they haven't figured this out completely yet. Realistic clothing plus sashes seems like an oxymoron. And one especially geared towards fortress mode.
Given that I don't think we've seen the end of clothing issues, butt naked dorfs (as well as dorfs with naked butts) will probably not be uncommon until the clothing replacement logic is changed to drop only when picking up (which will cause issues with militia upgrades), and I don't expect that to be in scope until well after Myth & Magic. I believe someone deliberately tried to spread the idea that being naked was nothing to be ashamed of through the library in a fortress in order to cut down on clothing production (and subsequent disposal), but I think that was before the needs rewrite.
I says make the graphics represent literally what's there, even if that means that you can't tell apart professions visually. If dorf is carrying a pick, probably a miner. If dorf is carrying an axe, probably a woodcutter. And so on.And if a dwarf is wielding a mug, a scroll, a plump helmet or an artifact cabinet (search Reddit...) in battle? Weapon sized sprites for every object in the game?
This is the wrong place to state my opinion if I want anyone who can act on it to see it but fuck it I love screaming into the void.
snip... the sLIver barb dye color [see wiki page]). ...snip
As you said that you are goingto fix some military issues. Is problem with armor and uniforms one of those planned fixes?When? All bugs will be fixed one day.
As you said that you are goingto fix some military issues. Is problem with armor and uniforms one of those planned fixes?When? All bugs will be fixed one day.
Are you talking about something promised for the Steam release?
Ok. That's clear. :)As you said that you are goingto fix some military issues. Is problem with armor and uniforms one of those planned fixes?When? All bugs will be fixed one day.
Are you talking about something promised for the Steam release?
Edited my question. You are right it was too uncertain.
1) When will you be able to butcher sentient creatures after an ethics change and then use the gleaned bones/meat to make food/bone goods?
2) Can features that aren't planned to work for Dwarves specifically still be encoded, especially for modders and fiddlers?
3) Are there any plans for making cobaltite useful?
4) Are there plans for a thievery/stealth skill for stealth squads which you can use against your enemies to steal artifacts (like Kobolds & Goblins) as well as babystealing missions should you choose to go evil or modify your ethics to allow that?
5) Are there plans to fix the glitches related to fortress mode necromancers where the things they revive are still hostile to them?
A question about your general vision (not the short-time stuff):
Many stories and games (both video and PnP) implicitly involve some level of "dramatic convenience", e.g. a mayor's daughter gets kidnapped just as your party is visiting the town, or you stay at a tavern and just happen to overhear a villainous plan, or the protagonist randomly finds a magic McGuffin ring in a river. What is your opinion on such things? Would you include an option for the game to behave that way (to nudge/induce interesting events) if you could? Is it even doable? The kidnapped daughter example above, for instance, would involve rewriting the near past, as the game can't predict which town will you visit next, and the kidnapping has to happen in advance.
I'm asking because in real life epic adventures are rare, and I fear a realistic medieval simulation may be a tad boring.
I remember you mentioning an option to stop worldgen just as something big is about to occur, but it's not quite the same thing as it fits the player to the world, not the other way around.
Another question, on the myth generator:
As there are going to be various race-creation myths, is a good old Darwinesque natural selection on the table? Either as a divine myth ("the mountain apes were our holy ancestors and diligent work made them into what we are now"), or as something scholars could discover (even contrary to preexisting myths)? Or is it not medieval enough?
Are there any features you once considered implementing, but now view as impossible to add due to time constraints?
Will there be a possibility for the player, as an adventurer, to join in on already existing plots?
So if I recall correctly, this villain update was originally intended to be the last update before a Long Wait. Given how much it's ballooned, are you still planning to start the Long Wait as soon as it's finished? Or are you considering this its own Long Wait that you'll be doing rapid-fire bugfixes after?
Will you ever make the myth generator you showed off at GDC in 2016 downloadable? I would quite enjoy playing with it and modding it and stuff. I am a game dev myself so it would be cool to just read through a few of the creation myths (without having to read only screenshots) just have a little text blurb that says, "THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT THE FINAL MYTH GENERATOR AT ALL!" In bold next to the link to stave off any untoured expectations or some such.
If you dont want to i get it, maybe just share a couple more screenshots then?
Maybe explain a bit of how it works,
I understand its agent based and turn based correct?
Will the final one work the same?
If its agent based and turn based, Would the player ever be allowed to pop into one of the gods during creation to take their "turns" for them, as that is a "role" people would want to play, that would be a fun mini game. Probably a messy interface though.
Do you plan to ever give dungeons/sewers/catacombs proper animal populations/incursions? It would be cool to fight the giant rats in the sewer/basement (prolific fantasy trope)
Priest: “yeah so the giant rats built a nest in the catacombs, could you clear it out for us”
All thats really in dungeons/catacombs right now is some criminals, sometimes,and ultra rarely some kobolds and even more ultra rarely other random historical monsters that have moved in, rarely some animal men, who half the time don't even initiate the combat. And the occasional tomb with a mummy.
Do you recall what inspired some of the cavern critters in the next_underground file? Like where did you get the idea for green devourers, voracious cave crawlers, or molemarians? What even is a draltha?
Are there any plans for us to be able to play races other than dwarves in fort mode, such as a fully fleshed out structure for goblins, humans, etc?
Are there any plans to allow us to optionally manually control raids/pillages/invasions and be transported to the battlefield instead of only seeing a report after-the-fact?
Are there any plans to make roads actually traversed? I was thinking of making a fort on the roads and halting anyone passing by, but no one ever came unless they were specifically coming to my fort.
Will there still be a sort of 'Wizard tower' mode for wizards(as per old dev notes), or will our interaction with wizards be primarily adventure mode shenanigans with occasionally a wizard histfig messing things up in fortmode? Or is everything just gonna melt together and we'll see prison-colony-on-a-magical-mountain-run-by-wizards-that-are-an-offshoot-of-a-dwarven-civ-and-they-are-also-a-mercenary-band-mode?
Quote from: EternalCaveDragonWith the expansion to relationships between historical figures that's been discussed for this pass, are there any plans to do the same (in the background of course) for player adventurers? I remember reading somewhere that currently adventurers don't have any romantic/sexual orientation which results in them not doing things like taking lovers or getting married and having children. The fact they will stay with their previous traveling companions where they retired is pretty nice. But for a player like myself, where being able to get an adventurer to retirement is something of a rarity, it'd be kind of nice to know my former adventurer became more of a part of the world aside from whatever accomplishments they achieved after I take my focus away from them.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerIs there anything you've hard-coded into retired adventurers to prevent them from certain activities (besides relationships which I think you've mentioned before). So things like joining merc bands, becoming a goblin poet master's apprentice, etc?
1: Will magic users be able to effect the geography of the world?
2: Will magic users be able to play with physics in any way? As in gravity say?
3: If so, (after boats are implemented I would assume) would fortresses in the middle of the ocean be possible? If able, a magician could part the ocean for long enough to build the framework, for example.
4: Also if so, would floating fortresses be possible in any form?
5: In adventure mode, will flying ships be implemented in anyway, or even be possible? I just really want to descend on an unsuspecting town from the sky to raid and pillage.
So...snatching is now officially a villaneous behaviour. And player adventurers can indulge villaneous behaviour themselves...does this mean our long-held dreams of playing a proper band of goblin snatchers is now possible?
I have some questions/suggestions for Fortress Mode:
1) More suggestion, than question. Wild animal people and some creatures like trolls, gorlaks and troglodits [CAN_LEARN]. How about possibility to train them, when they encaged, making them a citisens of your fortress? They are almost useless now, but can be very useful for creating of multinational fortresses.
2) About religions. Will there be a possibility for dwarfs (or others) in your fortress to found a new religion? Maybe as a very rare happening? Or this only world-creational option?
3) Can religions spread with books? How about optional holy bibles for some of them?))
4) About mecenaries. Can they recruit citizens of your fortress for their band? Maybe, unhappy citisens will be willing to leave fortress and join such bands, and they will file a petition, denying which will cause even more bad thoughts?
Will the addition of a steam-supported graphics pack negatively affect future feature additions? Regarding them, an example you used was worm people living in the intestines of a world-monster for whom being dragged into lakes of bile by ghosts was a constant mortal threat. It seems unlikely that this kind of procedural possibility could be accounted for even with a whole professional team of graphics artists. I worry that features like this that don't seem to be able to reasonably be integrated into the official steam version are more likely to hit the cutting room floor than to be available in the free version only or some other compromise, but I would like to hear the official stance on it. How exactly will the graphics pack work with the level of procedural generation DF will eventually support without compromising the original vision, if it is even possible? It seems like a pretty big challenge.
1) Just what will enhanced graphics mean?Graphics tiles for things like items, landscape components, shrubs/grasses, and map icons?From the patreon page thats exactly what it looks like, so theres my answer Will things, modded things, that dont have graphics support show up as normal ascii tiles?
2) Will the steam version get steam workshop support for mods?
3) Will the steam version technically be downloadable on the bay12games/dwarves page? Steam only lets you run the newest version of a game and will immediately overwrite your current game files, which id have to backup before updating, and if i want to play older versions of the steam game it would be absolutely necessary to have access to it there.
4) How different will the "classic" version end up being?
To be fair ive been playing for 12 years now, since i was 14, and this is new and scary and im not sure if i like it, but if you think its necessary for you, you know whats best.
Are whatever enhancements that are going into the graphics system to support these new tiles going to be folded back into "classic" or are classic users to make do with DFhack/TWBT (and crashing Adventurer...)?
If you don't mind me asking; the circumstances of the Steam launch are troubling. Do you ever go jogging, bike riding, etc.?
Do you anticipate that non-Classic will have equivalents to the options found in init.txt and d_init.txt?
If so, would this extend to custom tilesets/graphics?
How will The Announcement affect DF development?
- In the near term: The writing of a new graphics engine will obviously take time, so
1a: Do you have a ballpark guess of how long it will take, i.e. days/weeks/months/seasons...?
1b: When do you plan to write the engine? My guess would be that you'd finish the villain release and a few essential bug fix releases and then do the engine, followed by bug fix releases of things found while the engine was produced. The dev page hasn't been updated to cover this yet (as of this writing).
1c: Are you adamant in doing it yourself rather than contracting competent community members for the task (especially if the 1a estimate is beyond "a few weeks", as I would expect it to be)?
- In the long term:
2. Do you intend to change the way you work as a result of this? I'm primarily aiming the question at how you deal with bugs during the rather long (semi) major development cycles, as a Long Wait with a growing pile of reported bugs and no bug fixes is likely to result in DF being labeled as abandonware by many. I expect a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth concerning bugs whatever you do due to the nature of DF and its development, but some outcomes are worse than others.
Edit: 1b and 2 have been answered below by quotes from other fora, and so have been de-Toadified color wise.
Great news on the Steam thing. I hope this brings in lots of new players (and their money) for you!
As I read through Meph's threads explaining the tons of sprites that will make the graphical version of DF so interesting, it becomes obvious (as I think it did to you back with Armok I) that graphics can never show everything you want them too. That leaves them as highly detailed, colourful representations, which I guess people accept more so in 2D than 3D but to me is not much more useful than an ASCII character (but that's just me - whatever attracts new players is cool I guess).
So, and I suppose it might be too early to tell, but with all this new income, official graphical version, back up of tremendously cool people...do you feel any pressure to reconsider any features from the point of view of "will this work in the graphical version"?
Examples might be, say, the Half-Elf issue. If you attempt it, it's going to be a lot of work just for the coding. But for tilesets? Sprites for half, quarter, a little bit elves? Green half-goblins? Pale half-goblins with red eyes (two variations from three-toe's own stories). The scope of procgen critters post myth-gen? It's all going to be a headache for the graphics guys but it all seems so essential to making dwarf fortress what it is. (And I guess the reason I'll play the Steam version in ascii, statues of famous bards represented by statues of armoured dwarves just annoys me).
To clarify, I don't mean contractual pressure, but just on the level of consideration for Meph and Mayday's sanity.
As far as I know, one thing you really appreciated about DF was that you didn't have any responsibility towards anyone and you could work on anything you want at any pace you want. Do you feel any sort of mental "consequences" due to putting the game up for sale? Do you feel differently now that you're going to have "customers"?
On Discord you said that most new graphics effects like the transparency feature etc have already been implemented into the game. For how long have you been working on these things exactly? Did you do them secretly at the side during the villain update?
Just to confirm: With "in world gen" you just mean the initial world generation, right? Not the time passing after the world has been finalised?
First off, sorry if I offended with the "like a 1930s apartment block" remark, I was just trying to be witty :)
Second, wow, a graphical DF release, honestly didn't expect this in the near future and am (very pleasantly) surprised! The new graphics look really good!
Since audio is also in the works, thought I'd ask a question about it: are there any potential plans for the Steam release (or later) to have 'ambient sounds', e.g. water dripping/echos in caverns, generic forest sounds when in a woodland, crowd sounds when in a congregated area (such as a tavern), etc.?
Second, more related to the graphical features, I've noticed in the graphical previews that sentient critters in battle actually have differing equipment, armor and appearances - some dwarfs have swords, some maces, some crossbows, some spears, etc. This is another very exciting thing for me. If this will actually be a feature, how far will it go in differentiating sentient creatures by equipment/state? Will it
change their sprites based on:
1. Equipped equipment, and it's state?
2. Clothing, and it's state?
3. Physical appearance, such as bald dwarfs actually being bald, etc.?
4. Wounds, from generic bloodiness when wounded, to possibly even more specific wounds (e.g. decapitation being shown, though I am fully aware that this might be a bit too graphical/gory). Possibly bandages when wounds are healing, also.
Now that there are people other than you looking at graphics, another at music and presumably someone thinking about achievements and stuff, how do you want the Suggestions to work from now on? Continue to throw everything into the Bay12 Suggestions forum and you'll pass on anything you think you want in your game? Or some other way to pass on Suggestions directly?
Will the steam version of the game have 3rd party utilities most people used to have like dfhack and dwarf therapist? I mean managing dwarfes and searching in most game windows provided by them is hard to overestimate. Or maybe the steam version will have the same functionality introduced?
I undestand it might be too early to ask but as we know steam takes 30% of money for themselves and itch.io has a variable percentage. So will those fees be the same on both platforms? I'm just curious which one to choose to be sure more money will go to Adams brothers.
However, speaking of, are there any plans to release slavery & cannibalism with the villainy or maybe even the gods & myths update?
Will the first villain release have any graphics changes? Or will all of them start after that.
1- What is the projection of the future regarding procedural art forms? Do you plan to add more details or improve what already exists?
It is not that I find it insufficient, I am really amazed with the current result.
2- Assuming that the first question you answered that there will be improvements / new features ... in what arcs would you develop them? And what would be its relevance in the development of the game beyond creating unique cultures with their own personality (more than enough, in fact)?
3- Will it include art forms for painting or sculpture as well? I guess the important thing is what is shown, but it would also be interesting to know if the style of the painting is Renaissance or impressionist, although that is already a suggestion.
4- If I were a composer who used the rules of a procedural musical form, would I be free to create several themes respecting the rules or is it quite restrictive?
when you get to embarks/scenarios and such and forts having a purpose, will that tie in with current villian/hero/historical figure motivations and schemes? i.e. could a powerful noble establish a military fort with the express purpose of increasing his power? or a temple to increase his prestige or something?
Hey Tarn, any plans for implementing a justice/security system to go with Villains?
ATM, I can walk out with a towns entire warehouse and not be bothered by even a single concerned citizen. I'd imagine that under realistic circumstances, there would be a few guards on the warehouse, mayhaps with the ability to encourage them to turn a blind eye?
Tarn, I was wondering what your personal opinion is on some of the debates/ideas happening in the Steam suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173532.0) and tileset threads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0)?
Quote from: Beag1. How much do you think Dwarf Fortress will cost on steam?
2. With the switch from ascii to graphics will there be any graphics for what a creature is wearing? I ask this because it breaks my immersion a little to see a creature visually wearing one thing then when I check on them with the look command I find out they are wearing something else.
3. Will steam mods for Dwarf Fortress need to have graphics?
4. Will there be any indicator on the steam workshop for if mods are incompatible with each other or will we just need to test it out by running the game and seeing if it crashes?Quote from: therahedwigWhat kind of fallback mechanisms are you considering for situations in which unique graphics won't be possible, such as mods?
Lots has been said about the new graphics support you're adding, so:
Will the sound and music be completely moddable too? How will sound effects work? Are they defined for every action in the game, like a whole page of raws for editing as we like? Or as a tag we call from existing raws (which we could add to modded in reactions or combat attacks)?
I've read through the thread on the new tile sets, and seen that it appears clothing will be reflected on the characters. I expect that will result in a more or less immediate demand for control over clothing in Fortress Mode in the form of:
- Control over which types of clothing characters use (both in the "I refuse to play a game where guys wear dresses" vein and in the "I want different groups to wear different clothing as per my instructions" style), as well as the color of their clothing.
- A wider selection of dyes, especially with a wider color palette for the game itself.
Is this something you intend to address before the commercial version launches (e.g. in conjunction with military uniform UI overhaul), or something that would be addressed when (and if) the issue appears? It's not on my top priority list, but I suspect not dealing with it will have a negative impact on DF reception at launch.
The reason I've made this a question rather than a suggestion is that it's tied to the commercial launch, and so is time constrained.
As you said that you are goingto fix some military issues between vilians and the Big Wait. Is problem with armor and uniforms one of those planned fixes?
A long while yet, but when you come to the society/politics development stage, do you see (presumably generated) cultural/political/military systems that follow very different paths to the "medieval Europe" vibe we get at the moment? I know Mythgen will make weird and wonderful non-Tolkieny worlds possible, but specifically for culture & politics. Do you see yourself focussing mainly on elements of "earth" cultures for inspiration or will there be chances of really out-there pure fantasy political systems (either based on literature, your own imagination, or whatever)?
I suppose even clicking on the set of verbs and objects etc. might be kind of neat, or choosing which concepts to emphasize during a creation, etc. It would be kind of funny to play in a world over a sequence of forts/etc. and always know that you were personally responsible for one of the threads of creation, especially if it comes up somehow.Sounds great fun. This please.
Thank you for the answers Toady.Someone asked this in Reddit. The answer is, as I recall, basically, it's the modder's responsibility (better search for the exact quote). If they choose not to share their mod with everyone there's not much anyone can do about it
Are you worried/have you given any thought about the the Steam Workshop creating a walled garden and splitting the modding community?
I will give an example: I own a few games on GoG that have steam workshop integration. In a lot of cases the modders don't provide a external link to the mod which leaves me in the awkward situation of needing to pirate mods for a game I own. There's even the possibility that external downloaders such as steamworkshop downloader do not work. If you think that's a rare problem, there's even sites such as <removed> that exist solely for the purpose of pirating mods because some of us own the games on GoG or other platforms (examples of this are Stellaris, Project Zomboid, Starbound, Kenshi, Surviving Mars, among others).
I understand your decision to opt for Steam Workshop integration but you are running the risk of making your consumers in Itch.io into second-class consumers. I also know you have no responsibility in regards to where modders choose to upload their mods, but you can create the walled garden that allows it to happen in the first place. So what's your take on this?
Though to be fair, Crusader Kings 2 is a steam exclusive game. It needs Steam and it's not available without it anywhere else. It would be very unlikely that it shared this problem. As I said, it's not really the developer's responsibility for what people choose to do, but it's the developers responsibility that this was enabled as Workshop integration is his choice.It used to be on GOG. But all the mods are shared on the forum, so it didn't become a problem. And it's still the case that the mods are all shared on the forum on the developer's site, not just Steam.
Not enabling Steam Workshop on a game which people love to mod and use mods with is just shooting yourself in the foot.So you expect the modding scene to all take off to Steam since it would be a shoot in the foot to leave it in the forums? Interesting.
Crusader Kings 2 was never on GOG. None of the new generation Paradox games were except Stellaris and EU:Rome recently. It used to be on Gamersgate and that was before workshop integration. With it the GG version was discontinued. That's why that problem never happened with Crusader Kings 2: Workshop killed the alternative versions.And he answered it already in the Reddit Q&A. As I said.QuoteNot enabling Steam Workshop on a game which people love to mod and use mods with is just shooting yourself in the foot.So you expect the modding scene to all take off to Steam since it would be a shoot in the foot to leave it in the forums? Interesting.
Regardless, I'm not saying it is a problem, I'm raising it as a potential problem that might split the community. It's in the realm of possibility and it happened before.
The main selling point as far as I understood was the graphics, sound and accessibility. If the whole point was workshop access it would become a Steam exclusive. I just raised the question, to Toady, if he considered that possibility and how much of a problem it would be if it happened. I'm not interest in yours or anyone else opinion on this, just his.
I'm asking if he has given any thought and his opinions on the community splitting potential of his decision of doing Workshop and the possibility of that turn other consumers in second class consumers
One is about modders and their own choices.The other is about Toady and his choice and responsibilities. How on earth does one answer the other and in what language are they the same?
Yes, multiple fora will result in a split of the modding scene to a greater or lesser extent. I'm sure there are going to be people who'll only know about the Steam workshop and post there exclusively, as well as many who'd only know to look there. I, for one, am not going to post anything there (I don't think you could if you haven't bought this specific game there), but provide it over here, so anyone who'd want to use it would have to grab it here.
I have little knowledge of how the Steam Workshop works, but if there were guidelines that actively encouraged making anything posted there available for access to people having other versions of the game, and guides on how to do that, it would probably help (I have no idea how hard Valve tries to block competition out, or what visible means they'll use for that purpose, though).
In conclusion, it really is up to the modders themselves and only them whether or not they post to one or the other or both.But that's not the question here now is it? I'm not even debating how the Workshop works - just the fact that being a walled garden that the developer chooses they can end up creating, with other people's choices, a walled garden that makes other consumers into second-class consumers.
But it's the modder's choice!I'd appreciate if people would stop trying to swerve the question in this direction. That's not what I asked. I appreciate the efforts to try and answer my question but so far I only got misinterpretation and some moving to another (albeit similar) topic.
Which leads to one of the problems that FotF has in recent times, in my opinion. As Toady enable more and more people to help him answering questions, a lot of time the people who usually reply - empowered by Toady using their replies - end up gate-keeping the thread and trying to interpret the word of Toady (or what he thinks) like this was theological discussion. And we go off-topic with that.
But that's not the question here now is it? I'm not even debating how the Workshop works - just the fact that being a walled garden that the developer chooses they can end up creating, with other people's choices, a walled garden that makes other consumers into second-class consumers.
And again I find your argument fallacious.
I was specifically stating what barriers there are from the Steam side, of which there are none, because I've seen said lack of barriers for myself.Except for, you know, the whole walled garden barrier, there's none, sure.
You're assuming that every single mod creator on the Workshop will only post to the Workshop.No, I'm not. I'm asking Toady for his opinion on his decision to use the Workshop and the potential for a split in the mod community and the subsequent creation of second-class consumers. That might not happen at all - but it's a risk he is taking in favor of potential consumers in Steam over other platforms. Read my question again:
And above all, it all lies with the modders themselves how available they make their mods. I highly doubt it is intentional to create any barriers to access to mods, and to lay responsibility for that at the feet of the developer is a bit of a reach if you ask me since they have no control over the modding community's choices.Again, I'm not asking about the modding community choices. I am asking about his choices. The whole purpose of the Workshop was to create a walled garden that made more attractive for people to use Steam over other platforms. It's not the modding community choice to put Workshop in a game - it's the developer's choice. A combination of factors might end up creating a walled garden, or that might not happen at all, but the one who enables it all is the one who decides that the walled garden can exist in the first place.
And to say anyone who doesn't download the Steam version will become a "second-class consumer" is just as fallacious because it's based on the assumptions above. Plus it comes off as trying to start a fight before the Steam release has even happened.I'm not saying it will happen, I'm saying it can happen and asked him for his thoughts on it and asked if he thought about it at all. Am I speaking English here because I'm often repeating this to seemingly no avail.
I was reading a piece in PC Gamer about updates to the UI and it occurred to me;At the risk of being accused of gatekeeping again (despite Toady actually answering questions every month for years and years despite other people's comments), the workshops will at some point be replaced by zones. But doing this, Toady has said, will need a save-breaking update (like The Big Wait). But, if Steam release is going to break saves anyhow, it could happen. On the other hand Meph is designing beautiful workshops for the official tileset right now, so it most likely won't happen yet. Some consolidation of stockpiles, zones and stuff would be nice to see in the meantime though.
With the updates to the UI, are you going to take a stab at consolidating rooms, workshops, stockpiles and zones? It occurs to me that these are all "places where a certain activity is done" but they all have different menus and processes to do it, and this is the source of more confusion than having to learn which key does what.
Is there any chance that the Big Wait might be chopped into smaller waits? I was imagining that the map rewrite could accompany myths/legends (as pre-w.g fluff) before the mechanics of magic are added.
How far has the economy can been kicked down the road? Do you think that it will be more or less of a headache than organising a real economy?
Will the introduction of magic accompany a filling out of crafting options in adventurer mode? I ask because it occurred to me that the use of magical reagants is a standard fantasy trope, and that that might require a better fleshed out crafting interface. Additionally, transmutation of one object into another is a fantasy staple and I suppose that's another sort of crafting.
I was reading a piece in PC Gamer about updates to the UI and it occurred to me;That'd be pretty big. I doubt it would get in because it is so big, but it'd be pretty cool if it did :D
With the updates to the UI, are you going to take a stab at consolidating rooms, workshops, stockpiles and zones? It occurs to me that these are all "places where a certain activity is done" but they all have different menus and processes to do it, and this is the source of more confusion than having to learn which key does what.
Is there any chance that the Big Wait might be chopped into smaller waits? I was imagining that the map rewrite could accompany myths/legends (as pre-w.g fluff) before the mechanics of magic are added.Previous answers indicate its very likely. But, the thing is that even the simplest stuff, that is, doing the map rewrite, polishing the mythgen, integrating the mythgen, making everything in worldgen respect the mythgen, will still take pretty long.
How far has the economy can been kicked down the road? Do you think that it will be more or less of a headache than organising a real economy?Faaaar. Right now it seems the economy is much like magic that there's basically little bits and pieces being added onto each release that will end up in a cool economy system to interact with using villains, thieves and traders. So, like, this release has a notion of worldgen gambling and accounts for the different entities so villains have pretty mild stuff to do beyond 'grab power', but the next big push should be after all the magic stuff with the law and customs. The entities will be reworked then, and then hopefully made better about understanding what resources are available to them as well as made smart enough to have economic desires, so they can want to create mines and logging villages instead of only farming villages.
Will the introduction of magic accompany a filling out of crafting options in adventurer mode? I ask because it occurred to me that the use of magical reagants is a standard fantasy trope, and that that might require a better fleshed out crafting interface. Additionally, transmutation of one object into another is a fantasy staple and I suppose that's another sort of crafting.I have no idea about this last one :)
I was reading a piece in PC Gamer about updates to the UI and it occurred to me;
With the updates to the UI, are you going to take a stab at consolidating rooms, workshops, stockpiles and zones? It occurs to me that these are all "places where a certain activity is done" but they all have different menus and processes to do it, and this is the source of more confusion than having to learn which key does what.
Could you say a few words about whether (or not?) the accessibility improvements for the steam release will include any changes to things like workshops, zones, burrows, and the various selection methods?
E.g. Different ways of marking multiple tiles at once for various designation actions, workshops functioning different than zones / locations, that type of thing.Quote from: Tarnunifying all the workshop/zones/etc. was part of a larger project and might be a bit much, but doing different mousy rectangles and that sort of thing definitely in the mix. there will be an uncomfortable point where we have to decide just how much we can bite off in terms of wider rewrites, tradeoff between the delay and the first impression
Ah. Yes. Then there was this lot from an article today (yesterday?) which doesn't cover the specific question, but does go into details about some of the UI updates we can expect (and why a tutorial is hard in a game where your miner might unexpectedly have no arms...). (Or perhaps that was what prompted your question in the first place, sorry).I was reading a piece in PC Gamer about updates to the UI and it occurred to me;
With the updates to the UI, are you going to take a stab at consolidating rooms, workshops, stockpiles and zones? It occurs to me that these are all "places where a certain activity is done" but they all have different menus and processes to do it, and this is the source of more confusion than having to learn which key does what.
The workshop/zone question was sort of asked and answered in the kitfox discord (they had a kind of ama there too after the announcement) ^^Quote from: MishtalCould you say a few words about whether (or not?) the accessibility improvements for the steam release will include any changes to things like workshops, zones, burrows, and the various selection methods?
E.g. Different ways of marking multiple tiles at once for various designation actions, workshops functioning different than zones / locations, that type of thing.Quote from: Tarnunifying all the workshop/zones/etc. was part of a larger project and might be a bit much, but doing different mousy rectangles and that sort of thing definitely in the mix. there will be an uncomfortable point where we have to decide just how much we can bite off in terms of wider rewrites, tradeoff between the delay and the first impression
If you read Buttery's post, it is in fact what inspired their questions. :)Well, good to get the link out there. These PC Gamer interviews are coming in thick and fast. Here's another (although we know most of the content of this one already).
It's going to be interesting, Threetoe sure has his work cut out for him.
But I'm not making an argument am I? I'm making a question.
Hi Toady. You've mentioned earlier that the game has software rendered. Does it mean the built-in software renderer provided by opengl vendors or something else. If yes then do you have any metrics about how much performance does it take and will you consider moving to hardware rendering?Software rendered.... graphics? Missing word there somewhere.
Yeah, missed the word. Edited. Why do you think he knows? I thought he is more an artics not a programmer especially concerning the DF code.Hi Toady. You've mentioned earlier that the game has software rendered. Does it mean the built-in software renderer provided by opengl vendors or something else. If yes then do you have any metrics about how much performance does it take and will you consider moving to hardware rendering?Software rendered.... graphics? Missing word there somewhere.
If it's graphics you're talking about, then Meph might know more about where DF is going regarding soft Vs hardware graphics rendering and can probably give you an answer quicker (if he knows) over in the official tileset thread.
I imagine he knows the limits of what the current engine can manage and if he needs hardware rendering. He's prototyping animations and all sorts of ambitious stuff over in his thread. He'll have talked with Toady about what needs to change to make any of it possible.Yeah, missed the word. Edited. Why do you think he knows? I thought he is more an artics not a programmer especially concerning the DF code.Hi Toady. You've mentioned earlier that the game has software rendered. Does it mean the built-in software renderer provided by opengl vendors or something else. If yes then do you have any metrics about how much performance does it take and will you consider moving to hardware rendering?Software rendered.... graphics? Missing word there somewhere.
If it's graphics you're talking about, then Meph might know more about where DF is going regarding soft Vs hardware graphics rendering and can probably give you an answer quicker (if he knows) over in the official tileset thread.
Whether you are aware of it or not, you are making a number of assumptions, some of which come off as argumentative and/or coming from a potentially biased standpoint.The only assumption I'm making is that this change can bring other potential changes and I'm asking if he thought about it at all when opting for a feature that isn't at all mandatory for Steam. It might happen, it might not, I asked his thoughts on this possibility.
That said, the most useful thing is to look at what has actually happened with various similar games.That is off topic to the question and the topic. We are not here to draw scenarios or to speculate on what will happen. That's an argument.
Hi Toady. You've mentioned earlier that the game has software rendered graphics. Does it mean the built-in software renderer provided by opengl vendors or something else. If yes then do you have any metrics about how much performance does it take and will you consider moving to hardware rendering?Toady and mifki had a short discussion in the TwbT thread. This can be considered the start of that sequence: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.msg7943323#msg7943323 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.msg7943323#msg7943323).
for some reason, you feel compelled to engage in the question that isn't directed to you
That is off topic to the question and the topic. We are not here to draw scenarios or to speculate on what will happen. That's an argument.
Either not wanting to upload multiple places or just not knowing that there are other places for mods. It would be easy for a lot of mods to only be officially available on steam because the modder doesn't care to put it anywhere else.But upon being informed of where the community actually is and the existence of the free game, it's trivial for a mod maker to say OK to allowing someone to copy those files over to DFFD (or even do it themselves).
Which would be a little annoying seeing as such mods would still be compatible with the non-steam version, but you can't download mods directly from steam without having the game installed there.
That's a dangerous thing to do. You select something and issues an order, and while you do that, said something ceases to exist (dorf killed, workshop toppled...). In the best case nothing happens because the reference is recognized as being invalid; in the bad case the action is performed on the wrong target because the reference to the target now is to a different entity; and in the worst case the reference is a pointer to something that used to be the object but now has been reused for something else, causing the action to write "randomly" into it, causing corruption.
:
Will you consider the ability to access menus without having to pause the game?
That's a dangerous thing to do. You select something and issues an order, and while you do that, said something ceases to exist (dorf killed, workshop toppled...).Isn't the squad menu 'real time'(well, flowing time, more)? I know that took me by surprise the first time I used it.
He's new here, please go easy on him Putnam, he just doesn't know.for some reason, you feel compelled to engage in the question that isn't directed to youmaybe pay attention to the rest of the thread? Every question is replied to in this way by people who feel confident in answering it.
As long as the entity whose data you modify isn't moved or removed, you can modify elements of it that are small enough (and suitably aligned) to be updated as indivisible operations without risk (assuming the elements in question are independent, and ignoring the multiple levels of cashing of modern processors). If data is split into multiple indivisible transactions you run the risk of the other process reading data that's partially the old one and partially the new one, which isn't particularly safe if one element is a pointer to an object and the other element specifies what type of object the pointer points to, for instance.Great points!
DF retains units in the units list after they've died, so it may be that their data structures are all retained as well until a new save is loaded (which DT detects), in which case modifying jobs on dead units may well be reasonably safe. Making the assumption that all data is safe to manipulate because some carefully selected ones are is rather risky.
maybe pay attention to the rest of the thread? Every question is replied to in this way by people who feel confident in answering it.Maybe if you aren't 100% sure don't try and answer something you barely understood? Honestly the FotF became worse through the years because of this gate-keeping and you are the worst offender of it. Which makes me want to ask another question
Your question was inherently speculative.You can construe it that way, but it wasn't aimed at your speculation was it? Because I couldn't care less about you speculating on anything.
is pure speculation, you drew that scenario, formulating it as a question doesn't change that fact, and you used specific examples in your own question, the exact same way the reply did, so telling other people that they aren't allowed to is either 1. bad faith argumentation or 2. you simply forgot what your original question was.Seems like you don't know the meaning of the word "speculation" to me. Let me help you:
EDIT: And of course the question was already answered: the creator has no responsibility here. The creator should not have responsibility here, and never should when it comes to modding games.Of course you haven't read anything isn't, typical Putnam response: half answer that doesn't serve anything at all but waste everyone's time.
Just thought I'd point out that Toady agreed to a request to quote the people who try to answer the fotf questions, despite the extra time it takes him to do so, because it was hard for people to go back and search for the answers (previously he would say thanks and skip the questions that had already been answered). Now he quotes, and then adds his own answer. Referring to the previous attempts, how much he agrees with that and expanding with his own answers.maybe pay attention to the rest of the thread? Every question is replied to in this way by people who feel confident in answering it.Maybe if you aren't 100% sure don't try and answer something you barely understood? Honestly the FotF became worse through the years because of this gate-keeping and you are the worst offender of it. Which makes me want to ask another question
Through the years in the FotF we have more and more people help you with answers, in the sense that you started to quote them for answers (in the past you rarely did that). It saves you time but we get less and less answers from you
Not really here to educate you, Putnam. But the scenario I "constructed" was based on things that happened, therefore, there's firm evidence that adopting a walled garden can do the things you think are speculation.
It would do well for you to actually read the posts of people who reply to you instead of assuming that you're the only one who has even the slightest bit of intelligence or rigor in a conversation.Funny thing because I can actually say this for almost every reply you give to any post here. I mean if you actually read anything I wrote before you wouldn't reply to me. In retrospect you would reply a lot less to posts if you did this.
I was saying you may be arguing in bad faith because when someone else provided evidence of this thing not happening you promptly ignored it and you continue to act as if you were the only person who has done so.I'm not arguing, that's the point. I made a question over a possible scenario (and I admitted the possibility of it not happening). If you actually read the posts of people you are replying to you'd know better, but you don't. You are arguing over my question (where I just repeat myself over and over again) which is extremely petty but not out of character for you.
Do you think that Dwarf Fortress will end up like Tales of Maj'Eyal, with an official mod repository (http://dffd.bay12games.com/) on its main website (https://te4.org/addons/tome), a free version (https://te4.org/download) of the game (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/) available and steam workshop support on steam? Actually that's not a question, it's literally the exact same situation, and ToME does not have the problems you describe, but of course my example is invalid because it's not yours.I'm not interested in exposing "what I think" to you or the example you brought, I know examples of it happening or not exist. I'm interested in Toady's opinion over his choice, and the possible consequences for his consumers. Is that something hard to understand for you? But to be honest this misunderstanding has dragged on for long enough, derailed the thread long enough and it's close enough to breaking one of the few rules of the forums. And from my 8+ years here I know you won't understand anything I'm saying anyway and will just keep carrying on. So I will just carry on ignoring you or your opinion because that's really the best.
Just thought I'd point out that Toady agreed to a request to quote the people who try to answer the fotf questions, despite the extra time it takes him to do so, because it was hard for people to go back and search for the answers (previously he would say thanks and skip the questions that had already been answered). Now he quotes, and then adds his own answer. Referring to the previous attempts, how much he agrees with that and expanding with his own answers.I was referring to circa 2011-2012 but thanks for the help Shonai.
Now, despite the evidence in the thread, I realize that this says the exact opposite of what you say, so I'll add no more and wait for Toady's response at the end of the month.
Through the years in the FotF we have more and more people help you with answers, in the sense that you started to quote them for answers (in the past you rarely did that). It saves you time but we get less and less answers from you and we are left dealing with people that think they understand our questions as well as answers were they think they know the answer. It wasn't a huge thing before but it's getting worse through time IMO, though obviously not everyone is guilt of it and some are just trying to be helpful. Do you think that this "priest answering the devotees about the will and the thoughts of the Great Toady" is enabling this and can be harmful to the state of the FotF as well as inhibit direct engagement?
Let's just move on. Zak asked a question, people have added their 2 cents and now it's time to let Tarn answer it later.Nope, we're apparently going to run this into the ground. I can't wait for the next devlog, tbh.
Before assuming/claiming we're getting less answers you might want to actually LOOK at and compare FotF's from the past to the current ones (just did a quick run-through of random ones going back to 2010), which would've shown you that there hasn't been that big a change at all over the years.
but having people who've been around and remember what's been answered already help answer repeat questions is hardly a bad thing consideringSure, that's the good part. If someone asks "when is X coming" and someone reply "Toady said in Y arc" then you have an objective answer about something. Problem is the nature of human engagement isn't that simple and a lot of questions have some leeway for interpretation - and the interpretation we get is not from Toady.
And it's no surprise some people get a bit agitated when you come in with all manner of hyperbole, veiled insults and personal attacks. Might want to consider how you express yourself, just saying.There are no veiled insults or personal attacks in my questions to Toady. If you consider anything I wrote an hyperbole (and the only thing that could be construed that way was my second question, even though it clearly states an IMO which you might be interested to know means "in my opinion") then that's on you but hey, the question isn't directed to you. What compels you to make this strawman over a question that you (or anyone) are not obliged to answer is baffling. If you think I'm being rude when people drop in and interfere in a question I'm asking someone else, well, you are not obliged to interact with me either. Just ignore me.
That's a dangerous thing to do. You select something and issues an order, and while you do that, said something ceases to exist (dorf killed, workshop toppled...). In the best case nothing happens because the reference is recognized as being invalid; in the bad case the action is performed on the wrong target because the reference to the target now is to a different entity; and in the worst case the reference is a pointer to something that used to be the object but now has been reused for something else, causing the action to write "randomly" into it, causing corruption.
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Will you consider the ability to access menus without having to pause the game?
It's not impossible to handle, but requires care and extra code.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Um, well, couldn't Toady just implement it so that whenever you perform an action in a screen, it pauses the game, performs the action, and then unpauses? It's the exact sequence of steps that a user would otherwise perform, so no potential for corruption.
I think he might be talking about demons. A demon plotting to start a crime ring is a little underwhelming.That was my first thought. Demons should get up to all kinds of demonic stuff.
The latter is the example Toady gave during his Villains talk at Roguelike Celebration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7TtPX5uhg).I think he might be talking about demons. A demon plotting to start a crime ring is a little underwhelming.That was my first thought. Demons should get up to all kinds of demonic stuff.
Still, simple plots by necromancers to start wars between nearby civs would be interesting too.
Still, simple plots by necromancers to start wars between nearby civs would be interesting too.
Do you plan to have the agents of villains use seduction as another method of manipulating people, or will that be limited to just flattery?Terrible pickup lines and awful poetry have already been threatened for the adventurer relationship arc (whenever that may be - long time probably).
Seeing as we'll have these networks of agents and corrupted position holders and such, and we'll likely see the player being able to take a position on top of that hierarchy, I can't help but see some parallels with LCS. Terrible pickup lines probably don't have a place in DF, though. ;P
Does "bribery" include promising to share the secret of life and death with someone or is that not in the current version yet?I'm also very curious, so let me extend the question: Would vampires and other intelligent night creatures be able to offer sharing their curse as reward or create criminal organizations composed only of their brethren?
Does "bribery" include promising to share the secret of life and death with someone or is that not in the current version yet?I'm also very curious, so let me extend the question: Would vampires and other intelligent night creatures be able to offer sharing their curse as reward or create criminal organizations composed only of their brethren?
Hm... that sounds much like a suggestion, but I guess what you're wondering here in the first place is how blackmail functions in game? Because that's often related to revealing information about someone they wanted to keep private. So ask about that?
*Hm... that sounds much like a suggestion, but I guess what you're wondering here in the first place is how blackmail functions in game? Because that's often related to revealing information about someone they wanted to keep private. So ask about that?
Does it? But yeah he question is if "Extortion" and "blackmail" are possible/exist under the current system.
I fail to see what relevance Toady being a GoT fan has on the future of DF.I assume the question isn't expected to be answered yes/no.
That said, I guess there aren't really that many concrete rules as to what you can or can't ask in this thread so I'm probably just being a stick-in-the-mud. :P
I fail to see what relevance Toady being a GoT fan has on the future of DF.Necromancers are kinda like white walkers. And Df zombies like wights. Only the necro raises new zombies without the zombies being infectious themselves. Also the necro has kinda control about the zombies like a White walker over wights.
That said, I guess there aren't really that many concrete rules as to what you can or can't ask in this thread so I'm probably just being a stick-in-the-mud. :P
For the myth and magic stuff:
1. Will we ever see any "metamagic", actions/things/magic that changes how magic works/manifests?
2. Will we ever have people in-universe that try to "hack" or exploit loopholes in how the magic works, ala the dwemer from the Elder Scrolls, or the God-Learners from Glorantha?
One of the aspects of this universe that we wanted to emphasize was the passage between the ages, which is more prominent here than in the last story involving magic (see that story's analysis for more on magic systems and metaphysics, as well as the dev page). There aren't always discrete boundaries -- much like the current DF, the world's balance can change slowly as magical creatures are killed, for example, or as rifts are shut in a multiple-rift/portal apocalypse scenario. Those apocalypse scenarios themselves, on the other hand, set a clear era boundary. The Tales Foretold setting had eight named periods involving two apocalyptic events, and several gradual changes. Sometimes the gradual changes don't involve the fading of magical forces, but rather their growth/flowering through a period of research and stability to the point where the name of the era justifiably changes. The Golden Age and Dulchari period of the Tales Foretold setting worked this way.
We'll save some of the details for a future story, but another aspect of this universe to emphasize is the interconnected mechanics like soul cradles, lines of fate, and material transmutation (in DF, this configuration would be a generated part of one universe). Magical research in the Tales Foretold system involved understanding these building blocks, and then merging them together in new ways. The access to new worlds caused by the first Nightmare Apocalypse allowed additional forms of magic to be incorporated into existing native systems, leading to the more complicated magic used by the Dulchari wizards. When Cenaster separated the world from other planes, certain forms of magic ceased to work, and it also changed the mechanics of the afterlife. In Dwarf Fortress, systematizing the way the basic metaphysical aspects of the world work will cause these effects to happen as consequences of these sorts of disasters, and ideally they'd also be able to adapt to player-led changes in the structure of the universe.
Will slave markets actually make it out of worldgen, or is that a future post-economy update thing? Maybe just trading them with individuals (with the right ethics)?I suspect direct selling will be the current state of affairs, given festivals and inquisitions aren't outside of worldgen either... Unless of course Goblin area will now have a 'market' much like human and elven towns do, but then with people in cages instead of a fruit vendor...
... and I really like the part where people can escape.Yeah, it will be pretty cool to read a random hist fig's legends and see they spent 10 years in someone's dungeon until they managed to escape. I think someone recently brought up Monte Cristo, too.
...One factor when selecting which civ to embark with is whether the neighbors at various sites are at war with that civ (some want them to be at war, and some want caravans instead).
Yeah, that was me, and then someone else formulated a question about it regarding buying property.... and I really like the part where people can escape.Yeah, it will be pretty cool to read a random hist fig's legends and see they spent 10 years in someone's dungeon until they managed to escape. I think someone recently brought up Monte Cristo, too.
From previous releases, I'd say 99% chance of it being compatible unless some major corruption happens suddenly....One factor when selecting which civ to embark with is whether the neighbors at various sites are at war with that civ (some want them to be at war, and some want caravans instead).
I had no idea you could choose which civilization you embarked with :o
It may be too soon to tell, but what are the chances you think existing saves from 44.12 will work with the new villains release?
One of the tab views shows the available playable civ and you can select which one to start as (changing the civ also changes which dwarven fortress is your starting point [it's a blue rather than white fortress, I think], so you can start far away from the "home" if you want to ensure all enemies attack your fortress, for instance)....One factor when selecting which civ to embark with is whether the neighbors at various sites are at war with that civ (some want them to be at war, and some want caravans instead).
I had no idea you could choose which civilization you embarked with :o
It may be too soon to tell, but what are the chances you think existing saves from 44.12 will work with the new villains release?
There's the question of whether player fortress dwarves will be villaneous by themselves due to grudges and lust for power I suppose. And if they can, will dwarves from old saves get the new stats of respect, fear, loyalty and trust or the intrigue skill? Might be a bit weird at first.One of the tab views shows the available playable civ and you can select which one to start as (changing the civ also changes which dwarven fortress is your starting point [it's a blue rather than white fortress, I think], so you can start far away from the "home" if you want to ensure all enemies attack your fortress, for instance)....One factor when selecting which civ to embark with is whether the neighbors at various sites are at war with that civ (some want them to be at war, and some want caravans instead).
I had no idea you could choose which civilization you embarked with :o
It may be too soon to tell, but what are the chances you think existing saves from 44.12 will work with the new villains release?
As Shonai_Dweller said, compatibility is high on Toady's list of priorities. However, while saves are compatible, new things do not magically appear in an existing world. Things that the new release generates during world gen wasn't generated in the old save, and still won't appear (instruments and art forms fairly recently), and new equipment won't appear (e.g. pedestals and display cases recently, and step ladders earlier). It varies whether it's better to stay on the old version or to continue on to the new one. My current guess is that the new stuff won't cause harm to an existing fortress (the stress system rewrite did, as the old mitigation methods were removed, and many of the new ones weren't available), and getting the fatal raiding related bugs fixed (in the bug fix releases after the villains release, if Toady continues using the old production formula rather then the one to be adopted for the commercial version) will probably be worth an upgrade once those fixes are in. Bugs in villainy probably won't be much a problem if villainy itself isn't present to any extent...
Will interface changes (especially mouse support and better control windows) be available on classic version or they are steam/itchio exclusive like tileset and sound effects?The difference between the classic and the commercial versions will be tile set, music, and vendor guff (such as e.g. achievements), if I've understood the discussions correctly.
We can now request people from our holdings and all, so:Given that civs are currently unable to muster armies, but rather send whatever warm bodies they can round up in the site selected to perform an attack, the logical basis for such a request is currently missing, and doesn't seem to be even in the vicinity of the already horrendously bloated To-Do list before the Big Wait, I'd say there's no chance for it in the near term.
Will we see anytime soon the mountainhome request military aid in the form of soldiers or attack orders?
I could see conscription being pretty easy to implement as it can simply be the liaison telling you to "expel" this or that dwarf or some number of able bodied dwarves back to wherever, but that would probably be too annoying if you couldn't refuse.
1) There's no reward for fulfilling daft noble demands, why would annoying Mountain home requests be any different? Experience would be good, but only when training gets nerfed some. Punishment on the other hand might be interesting.We can now request people from our holdings and all, so:Given that civs are currently unable to muster armies, but rather send whatever warm bodies they can round up in the site selected to perform an attack, the logical basis for such a request is currently missing, and doesn't seem to be even in the vicinity of the already horrendously bloated To-Do list before the Big Wait, I'd say there's no chance for it in the near term.
Will we see anytime soon the mountainhome request military aid in the form of soldiers or attack orders?
I could see conscription being pretty easy to implement as it can simply be the liaison telling you to "expel" this or that dwarf or some number of able bodied dwarves back to wherever, but that would probably be too annoying if you couldn't refuse.
If a soldier request feature was implemented, I'd expect the soldiers' exploits to be visible in Legends Mode, i.e. that they participated in this attack and that one, kills (or getting killed), etc. Another important question is whether the feature would be desirable for players. If you just get a request to sacrifice citizens, I'd expect it to be an annoyance to most players (although it might be another opportunity beyond sending away to get rid of stressed ones). Sending mercs and monster slayers (if you've got any surviving ones), might sting less. However, if there was a reward attached, such as the survivors returning with experience and possibly some useful/interesting items (medals?), it might even things out. This is deep in the Suggestion territory, however.
A request to attack a site could be interesting, but apart from being outside the short term scope, it wouldn't be trivial to implement it in a reasonable way. For such an order/request to be reasonable, the target strength has to somehow be compared to the military might of the player fortress so an attack makes some kind of sense (yes, there are real world leaders without any sense...). This is something that might fit better with a starting scenario where the fortress is some kind of military facility.
Last time i asked about army bugs but was too uncertain. The exact one I'm concerned about is frequent inability of soldiers to find their armor, weapon and equipment even if they were specifically designated to wear specific part of it. Will this be fixed in some near future?
Last time i asked about army bugs but was too uncertain. The exact one I'm concerned about is frequent inability of soldiers to find their armor, weapon and equipment even if they were specifically designated to wear specific part of it. Will this be fixed in some near future?therahedwig mentioned the two main bugs I know of that match the (still too imprecise) description. The raid equipment corruption crash bug will most certainly be addressed, but it doesn't seem Toady is going to change to a current + next version parallel code base line development model until after the first Villains release has been made (and possibly not until the Commercial release is made as well), so it's most likely going to be fixed in the first few post Villain bug fix releases. The old standing equipment bug probably won't be addressed then (unless Toady feels it's time to deal with it when in the vicinity dealing with the corruption bug), but is a good candidate for fixing when Toady attacks the military UI to make it more user friendly as part of the Commercial release preparations. I'd be surprised if Toady made any promises, though...
I've been reading/watching people's DF let's plays lately, and I am noticing a lot of them aren't interacting with the civ screen much despite it being one of the most important screens when it comes to DF throwing dangers at you. And I am wondering if that's not because most of the dangers just kinda come at you out of nowhere.
The second group are a little frustrating, because what to say? "Oh, there's this really neat thing! But, um, you probably shouldn't use most of the cool stuff, because you might crash on stream."Well, if they don't expect crashes then why are they playing DF? :P
@Death Dragon: It's certainly possible for your dwarven civ to start out at war with other civs, and it happens from time to time that such civs happens to be the "neighbor" civs visible pre embark (where you can see that they're at war with your civ). This has been possible at least since 0.40.X, and probably much longer. One factor when selecting which civ to embark with is whether the neighbors at various sites are at war with that civ (some want them to be at war, and some want caravans instead).Yeah I figured it was already possible, but I assume that it will now possibly be more common.
Given that the villains can now start wars, and that civs can now have a claim on artifacts, are you considering getting rid of the siege triggers?Aren't the siege triggers still needed to prevent very early fortresses from being immediately overrun by invading armies?
Given that the villains can now start wars, and that civs can now have a claim on artifacts, are you considering getting rid of the siege triggers?Aren't the siege triggers still needed to prevent very early fortresses from being immediately overrun by invading armies?
I'm not entirely sure how it works, but when you start a fort and you're immediately at war with some civ, you still have to pass some triggering conditions before you can actually be a target of enemy raids, right?
I didn't know siege triggers themselves gave protection? This might also be because it is really easy to trigger them, and if it is protection, it is also an enforcement of sieges. Once you git the Goblin siege trigger(80 Dwarves), the Goblins will go to war with the Dwarves for no reason(legends say 'unknown' reasons) and you get sieges. And that's the part I am thinking villains might actually be a proper replacement mechanic for now.After the interface improvement arc, when hopefully it's more obvious what the embark screen is trying to tell you, might be a good time to get rid of triggers for civs we're already at war with.
If only, because, as far as I can tell, if background worldgen has it's way, Dwarf civs are mostly at peace with Goblins and always at war with the Elves, because Elves are creeps who make trophies out of their enemies. Or at the least, this is what legends mode tells me.
Normal undead ought to provide the same treatment benefits as regular dead (i.e. none) given that they shouldn't heal. Unusual undead (i.e. necromancers and vampires currently) ought to provide the same benefit as any regular sapient.
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7. Could you treat the dead's wounds indefinitely to improve your skills provided you were the necromancer that summoned them? Just getting that out of the way now.
Something I've been curious about for a while:
What exactly was your inspiration for making goblins immortal? I've had trouble finding a precedent for it in fantasy games and literature, indeed they're often shown to have lifespans shorter than that of the average humanoid (vanilla D&D goblins seldom live more than 60 years, for instance). Or is it something just entirely original that you came up with on your own?
I wonder, as mechanics open up that allow such a thing, would some means of their sustenance or continued success be expressed through an ingame resource or influence. Anything from a deity rewarding blood sacrifice with bounties of food to Sauron-esque dirt-and-magic fueled goblings. This could be an area where spheres of a species would be a bit relevant, too, i think.Something I've been curious about for a while:
What exactly was your inspiration for making goblins immortal? I've had trouble finding a precedent for it in fantasy games and literature, indeed they're often shown to have lifespans shorter than that of the average humanoid (vanilla D&D goblins seldom live more than 60 years, for instance). Or is it something just entirely original that you came up with on your own?
Despite occasional arguments to the contrary, I still can't help but suspect it's tied into the same reasons they were likely initially made so that they don't need food or drink: to ensure that all these factors don't add extra stress to the population of the most murder-happy civ in the game, one's been intended basically since the beginning to be THE main rival to a player's fortress.
Recall for a time that carnivorous civs used to have trouble surviving worldgen, and this was noticed to most prominently affect kobolds in vanilla (in addition to all the additional complications caused by an enforced low population cap, site restriction, and having worldgen battles with beasts HEAVILY stacked against them), whereas for goblins these tokens seemed to add further advantage towards making it through worldgen in fighting shape.
There was talk about magic, tone and I think randomness sliders, so I suposse setting the latter to 0 would turn off all randomly generated objects :)And a fixed world editor too for creating myths, artifacts, histfigs, sites and so on. Coming sometime during Mythgen releases.
2. Should we expect the whole world (or at least most of the world civilizations) uniting before the great danger of the demon king or zombie army?
Will this necromancer villain code most likely be applicable to any body-using, randomly generated magic of the magic update, or is it gonna require some rewrites later?An expansion to this question, and then another one:
Since the player adventurer can be a villain themselves with agents will they be able to make alliances with other villains? If so what would the benefits and costs of such alliances be?I suspect we won't get that far until the post-Steam pre-Big Wait update (if it happens) when you'll potentially have actual armies at your command. Also people being plotted against by you will form alliances with their allies, whether they are villains or not is presumably irrelevant. An alliance of criminal organizations trying to take you out would be pretty interesting though!
Do you guys have plans for player forts to participate in alliances before the big wait?
It's starting to sound like having the diplomat/liason go mad because they can't path out of the fortress might actually be detrimental on the long term next release...
"Never thought id die fighting side by side with a elf" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDT3_jVYAkI)
*looks up at the dribbling elf wearing wood looking off into the distance*
"By Armok we're all dead already."
Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
When might we hope to see siege engines targeting accross multiple z-levels?Last answer on this...
Source (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7606864;topicseen#msg7606864)QuoteWould the moving fortress part/boat arc also lay the groundwork for proper carts/wagons and invader siege engines (wheeled towers and battering rams in particular)?Yep, the idea is that these are all the same thing. There's a bit of a question down at the cart/minecart size, things that are just a few tiles, like if those'll be actual map sections or something more like the siege arrow that just sticks out from an item a bit.
No. The Premium version (Steam AND Itch.io) should have a soundtrack as well as the tileset, while the Steam version seems to get Steam Achievements on top of that. Shonai_Dweller's question is quite relevant, as it IS unclear both if a tutorial type thing is going to be produced, and whether it's going to be available in all DF versions, Premium, or Steam only if it appears.Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
Just want to double-check as it's been mentioned as being "unclear". I assumed I must have missed some comment about it somewhere in the rush of info a couple of weeks ago.Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
What exactly was your inspiration for making goblins immortal? I've had trouble finding a precedent for it in fantasy games and literature, indeed they're often shown to have lifespans shorter than that of the average humanoid ...
I just used to mod them to live under 60~70 years.
Are you worried/have you given any thought about the the Steam Workshop creating a walled garden and splitting the modding community? I understand your decision to opt for Steam Workshop integration but you are running the risk of making your consumers in Itch.io into second-class consumers. I also know you have no responsibility in regards to where modders choose to upload their mods, but you can create the walled garden that allows it to happen in the first place. So what's your take on this?
Do you think the updates for Steam release will add enough changes that it will break saves like Mythgen probably will? Maybe that's a good thing for working without restrictions?
With the updates to the UI, are you going to take a stab at consolidating rooms, workshops, stockpiles and zones? It occurs to me that these are all "places where a certain activity is done" but they all have different menus and processes to do it, and this is the source of more confusion than having to learn which key does what.
Is there any chance that the Big Wait might be chopped into smaller waits? I was imagining that the map rewrite could accompany myths/legends (as pre-w.g fluff) before the mechanics of magic are added.
How far has the economy can been kicked down the road? Do you think that it will be more or less of a headache than organising a real economy?
Will the introduction of magic accompany a filling out of crafting options in adventurer mode? I ask because it occurred to me that the use of magical reagants is a standard fantasy trope, and that that might require a better fleshed out crafting interface. Additionally, transmutation of one object into another is a fantasy staple and I suppose that's another sort of crafting.
Hi Toady. You've mentioned earlier that the game has software rendered graphics. Does it mean the built-in software renderer provided by opengl vendors or something else. If yes then do you have any metrics about how much performance does it take and will you consider moving to hardware rendering?
Since the UI is getting increased mouse support, does this make a mobile version of dwarf fortress a possibility? The Steam Achievments code could also be wired into Google Play, which IIRC also has an achievements function.
Will there be any possibility of floating/dockable menus and submenus? Will you consider the ability to access menus without having to pause the game?
With the new graphical capabilities, you'll be bringing a lot of the functionality that TWBT strived to bring to the game to vanilla, which is great. However, one thing TWBT never managed was to allow a separate tileset for the world map.[BlatantSuggestion] Might that be something you have planned for the Steam release? [/BlatantSuggestion].
If not, I'll just get on over to the Suggestions forum. :)
Hey Toady, you mentioned a potential concern of melanomas caused by sun exposure. I do think you know the whole sunblock thing already, but did you know that the scalp is rather sensetive to UV, regardless of hair coverage? A sun hat could be a pretty good call!
Through the years in the FotF we have more and more people help you with answers, in the sense that you started to quote them for answers (in the past you rarely did that). It saves you time but we get less and less answers from you and we are left dealing with people that think they understand our questions as well as answers were they think they know the answer. It wasn't a huge thing before but it's getting worse through time IMO, though obviously not everyone is guilt of it and some are just trying to be helpful. Do you think that this "priest answering the devotees about the will and the thoughts of the Great Toady" is enabling this and can be harmful to the state of the FotF as well as inhibit direct engagement?
So, what's different about supernatural villains? Is it a secret? :)
Are we talking night trolls paying goblin snatchers for a bit of side work? Or special things only demons get up to?
And, will there be a "quickstart" option for Adventurer parties?Where you want a to play a party of 6 but don't want the hassle of having to define every member.
In Adventure mode, will we witness bribe attempts (bribe or any other form of corruption) ? And will we be able (if we can) to interfere with them ?
Do you plan to have the agents of villains use seduction as another method of manipulating people, or will that be limited to just flattery?
Seeing as we'll have these networks of agents and corrupted position holders and such, and we'll likely see the player being able to take a position on top of that hierarchy, I can't help but see some parallels with LCS. Terrible pickup lines probably don't have a place in DF, though. ;P
Quote from: Death Dragon"... with the ability (upcoming in a bit) to expose most of the factors in the decision-making to legends mode."
Very interested in seeing more of these legends mode changes.
Does "bribery" include promising to share the secret of life and death with someone or is that not in the current version yet?
Actually, I assume that will be part of the "supernatural" villains stuff that is coming up next.Quote from: MagistrumI'm also very curious, so let me extend the question: Would vampires and other intelligent night creatures be able to offer sharing their curse as reward or create criminal organizations composed only of their brethren?
What about threatening to out someones prior misbehavious (existent or not) to particular people. Say if someone embezzled funds and a conspirator would threaten to make this public unless that someone did XYZ.
1. With the update to relationships coming will we see any cross race romance (if it doesn't happen now and I've just never seen it)? Ignoring half-bred offspring, I think it would be cool to see dwarves marry the local goblin or plump helmet man, or even cross-racial political marriages to give legitimacy to the odd elf who becomes a dwarven king, or to unite rival villain gangs.
2. As far as the villains go, I know they can lie and assume identities, but I was wondering if they will be able to hide inventory items from the player as part of their cover/deception with the update? This is also assuming that I've not figured out this is already happening, but it would make sense that we couldn't see what a thief is hiding in their tunic.
Hello Toady, I have to ask during this noise, you are watching the Game of the Thrones or if you read "A Song of Ice and Fire"?
What do you think about the combat system now? What would you like to improve or change and when can you do it?
For the myth and magic stuff:
1. Will we ever see any "metamagic", actions/things/magic that changes how magic works/manifests?
2. Will we ever have people in-universe that try to "hack" or exploit loopholes in how the magic works, ala the dwemer from the Elder Scrolls, or the God-Learners from Glorantha?
So with players having access to villain commands, we can now kidnap, torture and sell into slavery people we don't like? That sounds fun. Will slave markets actually make it out of worldgen, or is that a future post-economy update thing? Maybe just trading them with individuals (with the right ethics)? Or sending a companion away with orders to go sell the slaves in an abstract off-map market?
If the Steam release is wildly successful and you have lots of extra funds, have you considered using an NDA to bring in professional programming help? If only to cleanup and otherwise optimize the code.
I think I'm most hyped about the ability to instigate wars between civs. Really hope that the player will be able to send out agents in fort mode with that goal.
Can you give a little example of a villain who instigated a war in your testing? What made him do it? A grudge with a ruler perhaps?
Because of this addition, will there be more wars in general than we have now or will it be balanced out in some way? Will it be possible (or more likely) that the player's fort starts out immediately at war with the humans for example?
Other questions:
It sorta came up before, but wasn't really addressed: Are there cavalry mercenary companies?
Also, when hist figs spend their funds to buy equipment, does that just mean items or can they also acquire pet animals or mounts?
It may be too soon to tell, but what are the chances you think existing saves from 44.12 will work with the new villains release?
Given that the villains can now start wars, and that civs can now have a claim on artifacts, are you considering getting rid of the siege triggers? Or do you guys still have a bunch of other... fun you want to implement to make sieges a naturally occurring thing? Similarly, will villain-caused wars listen to the invasion toggle in the configuration, or will it be like the raid-response sieges? I'd ask the same thing for the megabeasts, but I already know they live very boring lives outside of initial worldgen. :D
I've been reading/watching people's DF let's plays lately, and I am noticing a lot of them aren't interacting with the civ screen much despite it being one of the most important screens when it comes to DF throwing dangers at you. And I am wondering if that's not because most of the dangers just kinda come at you out of nowhere. As for the init setting, was mostly wondering because then we can reliably test how good villains are at generating fort mode Fun without the game having to fudge it a bit.
Actually continuing on that thought a bit:
* Are there plans to flesh out refugees a little in the last bits of the pre-magic arc? They seem to be a very underdeveloped symptom of bleak stuff happening in the world, and there's a whole lot of new bleak stuff for them to run away from. Like, is there anything fundamental stopping them from showing up at your tavern like performance and quester troupes do?
* Will we see escapees show up at our forts?
* Do you think worldgen actors will be smart enough to chase after refugees and escapees?
Quote from: CriperumWill interface changes (especially mouse support and better control windows) be available on classic version or they are steam/itchio exclusive like tileset and sound effects?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerIs the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).
We can now request people from our holdings and all, so:
Will we see anytime soon the mountainhome request military aid in the form of soldiers or attack orders?
I could see conscription being pretty easy to implement as it can simply be the liaison telling you to "expel" this or that dwarf or some number of able bodied dwarves back to wherever, but that would probably be too annoying if you couldn't refuse.
Last time i asked about army bugs but was too uncertain. The exact one I'm concerned about is frequent inability of soldiers to find their armor, weapon and equipment even if they were specifically designated to wear specific part of it. Will this be fixed in some near future?
1.What are the middle-term plans for parrying and shielding?
2.Is it possible to modify together an item that works both as a shield and as something equivalent to a crutch?
3. For adventurer medical improvements, how much will be hardcoded?
Specifically I'm thinking about the fact that some of these rock bracelets ought to be very heavy. And in theory a stone splint, something meant to keep you immobile or minimize movement when you heal, would be pretty cool as a variation on splints. But learning to move with something like that puts me in the mind of crutch-walking taking a lot of time to master. But since I'm not suggesting any of it, I'm curious how moddable something like that could be before the big wait. Either with planned additions or what's in the raws now.
4. Once adventurer medical improvements are in, can you get a reputation for treating people's injuries? Any possibility of being treated like a physician (since the skill exists in a scholarly way already) that is welcome in enemy lands because you're so well known for treating anyone you come across? How about treating someone unconscious from a kill on sight faction in order to build personal/entity trust?
5. Can you get hired to take care of these people being tortured in towers, giving you the chance to free them?
6. Will this mean caring for your pets injuries as well?
7. Could you treat the dead's wounds indefinitely to improve your skills provided you were the necromancer that summoned them? Just getting that out of the way now.
What exactly was your inspiration for making goblins immortal? I've had trouble finding a precedent for it in fantasy games and literature, indeed they're often shown to have lifespans shorter than that of the average humanoid (vanilla D&D goblins seldom live more than 60 years, for instance). Or is it something just entirely original that you came up with on your own?
Concerning the fact that modding not only can change the nature of races, but often replace or displace them, are there any concerns that the mythgen update and other planned procedural generation may be too dependent on quadruple supremacy of the goblins, elves, humans, and dwarves to produce sensible results in worlds with different ethical and cultural landscapes?
Will mythgen happen strictly before or after terrain generation?
For example, mythgen happening before worldgen would in theory allow different terrestrial worlds to share a common mythological backdrop via a seed, and the significance of regional disturbances, theological significance, etc would be retroactive.
Whereas mythgen happening after worldgen would mean the terrain that makes up the world could affect creation and/or creation myths, and may even have limited development of their permanent legacy as worldgen time ticks on, and potentially define significant theological figures based on the sculpting of the world itself, in theory.
And finally:
Will we be able to disable any "randomly generated objects" as they are implemented, from mythgen to magic, and make specific raw definitions that worlds would treat as any other generated definition? Similar to how current werewolf, vampire, regional disturbance, and boogeymen can currently be disabled and modded in.
Being able to custom build the world from the ground up sounds like it would work wonders for modding, but I imagine as things get more complex, decoupling things like actual magic from a world's theology becomes too much of a nuisance to allow rewriting from scratch in the raws.
1. Should we expect necromancer alliances to take over the world with even bigger zombie army?
2. Should we expect the whole world (or at least most of the world civilizations) uniting before the great danger of the demon king or zombie army?
Quote from: Death DragonWill this necromancer villain code most likely be applicable to any body-using, randomly generated magic of the magic update, or is it gonna require some rewrites later?Quote from: voliolAn expansion to this question, and then another one:
1. Do the supernatural villains act according to the interaction tokens given in the raws (so modded interactees are properly supported), or is it currently mostly the vanilla villain types that have hard-coded support?
2. To which degree do the villains consider their own physical properties when making up plans? A giant-beast necromancer wouldn't have any problems with producing corpses for themselves to use in raising, I imagine. Also related are meek dwarves considering physical threats to get their way.
Do you guys have plans for player forts to participate in alliances before the big wait?
It's starting to sound like having the diplomat/liason go mad because they can't path out of the fortress might actually be detrimental on the long term next release...
Oh, and what kind of factors are involved with investigating histfigs regarding what kind of investigation technique they use? Are these the same as villain's corruption techniques? Like, for example, can a investigating histfig suspect someone might have been bribed without interrogating them? Or is a goblin investigator more likely to use torture? Do goblins at all care about investigating?
As an adventurer we can follow the villain clues, interrogate the sub-agents and finally take out the big baddie ourselves (I assume), but can we also contribute towards our civ's overall counter-intelligence operations? Like, hunt the clues, find out who's behind the plotting, and then tell the king/spymaster about it and have his armies take out the top plotter hq instead of doing it ourselves?
Since the player adventurer can be a villain themselves with agents will they be able to make alliances with other villains? If so what would the benefits and costs of such alliances be?
When might we hope to see siege engines targeting accross multiple z-levels?
When you work on the greatly anticipated stress, needs, and happiness changes, will you focus more on fixing the little bugs that made your original plan not work, or more on modifying the algorithm to run stress towards "okay" rather than either ecstatic or misery until well-run, safe fortresses stop breaking around the 5-6 year mark (without extreme micromanagement?) Likely some of each, but have you decided a focus?
Note I'm not asking if it'll be fixed, as that's been well-covered, but it would be neat to see the original plan implemented! There was a moment around August when I was actually somewhat excited the needs bugs might encourage the fixing of long-standing but trivial bugs, like allowing dwarves to: enjoy well-made meals, rather than only (secretly) craving Zebra hearts or polar bear brains; seek out their specifically needed temple; seek out friendships and relationships; grab desired high-value clothes and trinkets from stockpiles, etc.
I didn't do a story log since time has been shorter lately, with all the extra email and Steam-adjacent work that's been floating about. I saw that a few villain-led wars were started, but I didn't go through and investigate what was going on. It's quite likely a ruler grudge, yeah, though whether that was due to past religious persecution or just because the villain was jealous over a lover or something, I didn't check, ha ha ha.Hell yeah, thanks.
Clearly that means more wars, just based on the mechanics, but stuff like the upcoming alliances will be a counterbalance. We'll see if scheming ex-lovers cause the end of civilization, I suppose, once I get my first zombie apocalypse rolling. I do have to be careful in general, since a world gen that just ends all life on the planet is not exactly a playable world. At least it shouldn't be the default! And as with some of the other unbalanced parts of world gen, it might be the end state of all worlds now if necromantic secrets always arise; they just need to succeed one time, while the living need to win each war. Will continue to test and ponder as we go. But yeah, you might start more often in an atypical war now, due to the specific historical situation.
According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.No. The Premium version (Steam AND Itch.io) should have a soundtrack as well as the tileset, while the Steam version seems to get Steam Achievements on top of that. Shonai_Dweller's question is quite relevant, as it IS unclear both if a tutorial type thing is going to be produced, and whether it's going to be available in all DF versions, Premium, or Steam only if it appears.Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
The underlying mechanics changes (whatever they end up being) are intended to be available to all DF versions (as stated), if I understand it correctly, so tileset artists should be able to create sets making use of those mechanics. This probably means only the Premium version will have a tileset at release, while community tilesets will play catch-up (as it's always been).
Well, Toady just confirmed, but thanks anyhow.According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.No. The Premium version (Steam AND Itch.io) should have a soundtrack as well as the tileset, while the Steam version seems to get Steam Achievements on top of that. Shonai_Dweller's question is quite relevant, as it IS unclear both if a tutorial type thing is going to be produced, and whether it's going to be available in all DF versions, Premium, or Steam only if it appears.Is the tutorial you've been thinking of (PC Gamer) likely to be an addition for the paid version of DF like the tileset and music, or is this something for the game in general? (I know the tutorial-by-acheivement idea would have to be Steam only, just meaning the regular 'how to build stuff, restore your woodcutter's arms' parts).The Steam version isnt getting anything special beside the tileset. And the tileset just comes bundle with the steam version. The speical work going in for the tileset, will be open to any future tileset.
The underlying mechanics changes (whatever they end up being) are intended to be available to all DF versions (as stated), if I understand it correctly, so tileset artists should be able to create sets making use of those mechanics. This probably means only the Premium version will have a tileset at release, while community tilesets will play catch-up (as it's always been).
"When the Steam version is released, people that choose to pick it up will get the new graphical tiles, new music and audio, as well as Steam Workshop integration. "
According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.
Probably mistook a question about music and audio functionality. That at least will be in all versions, same as the graphics functionality. The new tileset and music are being made by people paid by Kitfox in order to sell on Steam and Itch.io. No reason to think otherwise at this point.According to the Kitfox discord, the Premium version wont be different, beside a tileset and steam workshop intergration. Though the mods will work across any version. The soundtrack will be in all versions.
I spend an awful lot of time on the Kitfox Discord, and I've missed anything intentionally like that.
I suspect whoever gave you that impression simply wasn't thinking about the soundtrack. I find it hardly gets discussed at all.
(Yeah, Steam/itch get the new audio tracks and other distributed sound files. All versions get the ability to play music and sounds, using whatever unified system it ends up being, though it'll be up to modders to do anything beyond my original guitar tracks.)The great Simon Swerwer will fill the gap quite easily, I expect.
Given that you're having music made for the steam version, does that mean that we shouldn't expect you to ever record more songs for the vanilla version?Post version 1 retirement plan perhaps, write less code, play more guitar?
The great Simon Swerwer will fill the gap quite easily, I expect.Swerwer is gonna be impossible to beat.
I disagree that the forums are or can become a walled garden. They are completely free and you don't even need an account to see links. But I understand how the biggest leap was the decision to go to Steam and the Workshop might seem like just a bonus feature - here's hoping it doesn't become a walled garden, or that at least the "Steam workshop downloader" site(s) work.My problem with steam workshop is that, as far as I know, you can't upload mods for games that you don't own on steam. You actually can't even post COMMENTS on mods for games that you don't own on steam for some weird reason. It's very likely to become the place to be for DF mods, meaning if you want your mod to become popular, you'll probably need to buy the game on steam (instead of itch.io).
How would you even contact the modder? You'd have to hope that they accept steam friend requests from strangers. And even then, they'd have to reupload the mod whenever it gets updated.Post a comment. Steam has comments.
Using one of those workshop downloader sites is a lot easier, but they don't always function.
And it's not like people are going to be teaching others how to mod on the Steam forum. All of that support is right here.
Just using Crusader Kings as an example. Modding is discussed and has a guide on the official forums. Dwarf Fortress has a wiki and the official forums. I don't think anybody is going to need more help beyond a link to both. A guide just for people who can't use a computer and don't know how to exit Steam isn't necessary.And it's not like people are going to be teaching others how to mod on the Steam forum. All of that support is right here.
Depending on how its implemented, a guide on how to mod might be nessecary to put some control into first time players approaching through the medium of ASCII being a little bit heavy (without using starting packs) and to revert + alter changes to the mods that they are playing if they suddenly find a issue where they need to reset because of flawed or overlapping raws but don't want to lose savefiles not stored on cloud etc.
Simple things like pointing out the right directories, and the differences + syntax of the file types; I think mods for world presets to add to advanced generation will be VERY popular however besides from full content overhauls/re-writes like the Masterwork mod, smaller mods i dont think will draw a lot of traction like the forums but that's my reserved opinion.
Or just only maintain the mods on the forum.Steam workshop is one of the selling points. For casual users, it's fantastic. Click and you're in dinosaur world. Click and you're back at vanilla.
Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.The large number of people on various forums excited about "finally being able to use mods" would suggest that the current system isn't as plug and play as we might perceive it to be.
But, yes, mods are just text files copy them some place and you can use them whatever platform you're on. It'd be trivial for non-Steam users to get hold of any mod they want. Better for new modders to learn that there's a place where the whole community can access their mods and put up a version at DFFD themselves, even if it's up to a fan of that mod to keep it updated with the latest Workshop version.
The Lazy Newb Pack is about as easy as it gets for using the mods / various graphics included with it. However, if someone wants to create a mod, but doesn't want to learn how to use a computer a little more than normal, they are being quite unrealistic in their expectations. The steam release looks like it's going to be amazing as is, unmodded. So the need for casual style gamers to add mods, with no interest in learning how to copy and paste, would hardly ever arise.
I too want as many people as possible to enjoy Dwarf Fortress at least as much as I do. And I agree that some would be put off by the current steps required to add a mod. I just don't think it's going to be a statistically significant number of people who fall into that category. But it certainly could be.
I suppose given that the steam release is going to have graphics, and more music in addition to just being a fun game in general; the group most likely to be adversely affected by adding mods on top of this will be the modders themselves who want their mods to get more exposure with the steam player base.
The Lazy Newb Pack is about as easy as it gets for using the mods / various graphics included with it. However, if someone wants to create a mod, but doesn't want to learn how to use a computer a little more than normal, they are being quite unrealistic in their expectations. The steam release looks like it's going to be amazing as is, unmodded. So the need for casual style gamers to add mods, with no interest in learning how to copy and paste, would hardly ever arise.I suggest you hang out at some other forums for a while. The myth that dwarf fortress requires mods to be playable is still highly prevailant (however wrong). The opinion that Steam Workshop will therefore make Dwarf Fortress a playable game and therefore something people want to buy is being spouted at a regular rate.
I too want as many people as possible to enjoy Dwarf Fortress at least as much as I do. And I agree that some would be put off by the current steps required to add a mod. I just don't think it's going to be a statistically significant number of people who fall into that category. But it certainly could be.
I suppose given that the steam release is going to have graphics, and more music in addition to just being a fun game in general; the group most likely to be adversely affected by adding mods on top of this will be the modders themselves who want their mods to get more exposure with the steam player base.
As long as there are clear instructions available for each step of adding the mods in question, I don't think there's anything to worry about.Toady's not about to spend months on improving accessibility in order to sell a game with Steam Workshop access only to have it more complex than "click, mod on, click mod off" like every other game on Steam.
My only concerns are that the steps required for adding mods to the steam version will be too numerous for someone to follow. Or that the steam version will not allow certain really cool mods in (like Masterwork) - thereby forcing someone off the steam platform to play it.
Or that the steam version will not allow certain really cool mods in (like Masterwork) - thereby forcing someone off the steam platform to play it.I'm pretty sure you can still manually install mods in the Steam\SteamApps\common\ directory.
I'm pretty sure you can still manually install mods in the Steam\SteamApps\common\ directory.
Post a comment. Steam has comments.You mean on their profile? I guess that works when they don't have comments turned off or their profile set to private.
There was another interview with Toady here:Wait, Workshop doesn't have a comments function? Huh, must have imagined it.
https://kakebytes.com/2019/05/02/ep-25-dwarf-fortress-toady-one-returns/Post a comment. Steam has comments.You mean on their profile? I guess that works when they don't have comments turned off or their profile set to private.
I said it in my post further up, workshop items do have comments, BUT you can't post comments on workshop items if you don't own the game they are for on steam. Even if you "sorta" own a game through the steam family share feature, you still can't post comments on workshop items.Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.
Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.I was talking about individual people from the beginning:
I wasn't talking about one person begging for a mod to be posted at DFFD, I was talking about a group effort (not too much) to let people know that posting a copy of a mod where everyone can enjoy it, is much appreciated and healthy for the community as a whole.
And if people share their mods, and it's established that sharing mods is a good thing, it's no problem. Unless for some reason there's a mod that someone is deliberately not wanting to share. Which generally isn't a mod worth getting.Why do you think none of the community would own Dwarf Fortress on Steam? I imagine at least half of us are going to buy it.I was talking about individual people from the beginning:
I wasn't talking about one person begging for a mod to be posted at DFFD, I was talking about a group effort (not too much) to let people know that posting a copy of a mod where everyone can enjoy it, is much appreciated and healthy for the community as a whole.
"And yeah, the other problem is that non-steam users will have to use some weird, inofficial steam workshop downloading site to get the mods."
I was just listing some negative aspects of the steam workshop and one of them is that people who buy the game on Itch will either have to use a steam workshop downloading site to get mods or beg for them. It's a pretty big downside to buying games outside steam, if you ask me.
Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.
Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.
if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them
Is that what other games on Steam do?Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.
if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them
This exactly is why a steam port might need to have a compiler to remotely check the fluidity and block faulty attempts or easy access to the raws to fix such a thing which should refer the player back to the forums, wiki or steam guide pages to seek advice.
I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.
I am worried that itch.io users are going to miss out on mods which adapt the tileset they bought, because they're all locked in Steam (I know Meph is already planning one for Masterwork). That's an issue Kitfox will need to solve at some point. Perhaps just a tag which checks if the premium tileset exists in the users folder would work.Just forbid the distribution of unmodified premium assets. The way tilesets are implemented is probably going to change with all the new functionality, so each tile might end up in a separate file. Using the mod would end up with a tile that doesn't match all your other tiles.
This discussion is getting quite lengthy, and has few questions to Toady in it. Should it maybe be moved to its own thread?
Mods are pretty plug-and-play as it is, yeah? Worlds even save their own copies of the raws so you can relentlessly change stuff and make new worlds with it without obliterating old saves in the process.
if two mods add reactions to dwarves then they are fundamentally incompatible with each other without manually finding the changes they make and merging them
This exactly is why a steam port might need to have a compiler to remotely check the fluidity and block faulty attempts or easy access to the raws to fix such a thing which should refer the player back to the forums, wiki or steam guide pages to seek advice.
I guess actual gameplay guides such as 'building your first windmill farm', getting to grips with minecarts etc might serve to be more popular.
" There are bugs to wrangle - sometimes they take off and join performance troupes.". Dwarf Fortress bugs are always the best.I think Toady meant the the sapient zombies join troupes, although those are certainly buggy enough for bugs to have joined them :P
Regarding the newest devlog's mention of regions slowly becoming evil due to necromancer influence, will that be a hardcoded thing linked to towers or will that be more linked towards the caster type itself, so that modders could make the region become good over time instead?Ooh, I can just imagine the weird worlds I could get if my elven forest retreats were generating goodness while the dark elf sites are generating evilness and some tribe of monkeypeople are generating savagery all at the same time.
Since the abilities of a necromancer become the abilities of the player generally when they become a necromancer themselves, will we be able to raise our companions and important NPC's as intelligent zombies if they die?
@Shonai_Dweller: It wouldn't be hard to write a DFHack script that produced Savagery and/or Evilness spreading (towards either end, as well as any other point on the scales [a bit like value influencing books, but with a yearly {or monthly/weekly...} effect]).Yeah, I'll move on to DFhack scripts when I need to. This is probably something that would push me over to learning about DFhack. It fits my world's behaviour well.
I believe the current version of the game has a version of this logic already, civs taming Savage world tiles during world gen history (I don't know if it's active in game play).
I wonder if revived zombies will be more talkative with you in death than they were life about sensitive subjects.
Personally, I'm just wondering why zombies going AWOL and joining performance troupes is considered a bug.
Personally, I'm just wondering why zombies going AWOL and joining performance troupes is considered a bug.
Due to the way the DF data is structured, it's easy to spread Evilness/Savagery/Salinity... properties, because they're all stored on a world tile level. The regional interactions (with reanimation being one interaction effect), however, are tied to the regions rather than the world tiles that are part of those regions, so tying it to world tiles would require a restructuring of the data, which I suspect will be done as part of the Myth&Magic map rewrite. Flora and fauna is likewise tied to the region rather than tile level, and would require additional checks to exclude e.g. Evil plants from the non evil parts of a region if those plants were added to the region (there's probably something similar in place currently to ensure Temperate/Tropical and Savagery matching, so it might be easy to just add an Evilness checks to it).
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6. Will the evil regions spread from towers also have evil weather and blanket re-animation effects, or will it just be a normal region with zombies?
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Does this mean that salt vs fresh water preferring animals don't actually check regional salinity or am I missing something?Salinity is the other basic parameter (besides Evilness) that lies outside of PSV control. I believe the whole region has the same general Salinity level (but I haven't checked) in the same way the whole region currently has the same general Evilness level. With such a logic the check happens at the allocation of the flora and fauna to the region: in the case of Salinity it controls the biome where the Salinity makes a difference ([fresh/salt water swamp/marsh/lake/river] and the biome defines the base set of flora/fauna from which the actual set is drawn from), and in the case of Evilness the level controls whether Evil/Good flora and fauna gets added to the set drawn from.
Not that it's too important at the moment: animals don't really thirst or hunger, let alone experience saltiness.
Does this mean that salt vs fresh water preferring animals don't actually check regional salinity or am I missing something?Salinity is the other basic parameter (besides Evilness) that lies outside of PSV control. I believe the whole region has the same general Salinity level (but I haven't checked) in the same way the whole region currently has the same general Evilness level. With such a logic the check happens at the allocation of the flora and fauna to the region: in the case of Salinity it controls the biome where the Salinity makes a difference ([fresh/salt water swamp/marsh/lake/river] and the biome defines the base set of flora/fauna from which the actual set is drawn from), and in the case of Evilness the level controls whether Evil/Good flora and fauna gets added to the set drawn from.
Not that it's too important at the moment: animals don't really thirst or hunger, let alone experience saltiness.
@KittyTac: There will be several sliders, and strength of magic as well as how common it is are probably candidates for these controls.Well, up till now there's been talk about tone, randomness and magic/mundane sliders, and there's been talk(pc gamer interview about magic) about how to make sure the magic gen will create fun and interesting worlds by limiting magic, but there hasn't been talk about a slider for how powerful regular joe smoes can become. It's not even evident how feasible that might be, so I think the question still makes sense :)
@Eric Blank: As far as I understand necromancers aren't all after world conquest. Some ought to be content with reaching the goal of surpassing their mortality, while others may be "scholars", content with sitting in their towers to do research (possibly with some forays into graveyards to gather more research material). However, it's those that make a (foul) mark on the world that are written into the history books...Darn it, now I want histfigs who become anatomy/disection/medicine scholars to also be entangled in necromancer fighting, because those assholes keep stealing all the good bodies!
The secrets themselves don't have any agenda, as far as I understand, although the power may well tempt many of them down a slippery slope. However, I don't think there's anything that makes using the secrets morally permissible by any civs as it currently stands, so shunning, persecusion, etc. is probably hard to get around.
Will there be a setting for the power of magic? So that in some worlds, wizards would be godlike, in others they would be on par with mundane sentients, and so on.
Df Ray Traces!Fast InvSqrt()!
Most of the questions I had have been asked already so here's a random one totally unrelated to the current work.
There's a different tile for creatures that swim under the water, there's a sun direction, there is field of view, so: Is it possible, if only in a long-term development sense, to have reflections off of water and/or silvered mirrors?/color]
-snip- I'm just super curious if your kind of graphics have this advantage over non-text games.
snipAlso, I'm pretty sure that a weirdness slider has been mentioned. For all your bucketmancy needs.
When necromancers attack cities, are they just trying to kill everyone, or do they stop after seizing power?
I've just always wondered if a necromancer's idea of world domination is anything less than "extinction of all life" and if the living have any place under their rule.
Personally, I'm just wondering why zombies going AWOL and joining performance troupes is considered a bug.
It'd assume that the necromancer asked them to, because even immortal beings of immense evil enjoy a good show.
It might get a little less funny once all necromancers' schemes flounder because they don't have any intelligent lieutenants :p
Mind you, I think everyone seems to agree that a lieutenant whose necromancing boss is unable to give orders(or just uninterested) should get a bit more agency in how they fill in their day... If only because a zombie running about trying to hatch an escape plan for their captured master while moonlighting as a bard seems pretty interested :p
Third: Are rogue adventurers(not belonging to any civ) gonna be able to acquire pets and mounts in adventure creation mode?
I kinda wanted to do an eragon mod and this question came to mind
If a sapient does not belong to any civ, which creatures does he have access to?
What about intelligent undead just wanting to stay regularly dead so they coup the necromancer just to undo the spell and finally rest in peace?
It's a question about outsiders.Third: Are rogue adventurers(not belonging to any civ) gonna be able to acquire pets and mounts in adventure creation mode?
I kinda wanted to do an eragon mod and this question came to mind
If a sapient does not belong to any civ, which creatures does he have access to?
Im not sure where you're exactly driving from unless we take 'rogue' as to mean A: Morally and ethically ambigious or B: Part of no present civilisation, acting on their own interests.
If its the former, there's never been any restriction before now really on what a player can do, Fortress & Adventurer mode sillyness is written off as possessed insanity. If its the latter thus far you can be a 'outsider' but you'll always have a parent civ as a safety blanket which also allocates the data such as picking out the right data for you and where to appear in the world. So that'll probably not happen until smaller sites/scenarios can justify place with only world links, not explicit civilization links like a exile's hermit tent out in the forest or something, closest you have are monster shrines & caves currently, but even those feel a civ's influence.
To dance around your question a bit, it'll probably revolve around the mechanisms that pets are aquired, either by terms of taming them yourself or not being blacklisted from town merchants for silly antics (possibly hostile civ towns if you want to buy a beakdog on the sly under a false identity) a devlog might clarify in the future if we're lucky to hear more from Toady.
- The answer to your no civ:no animals sapients question is; none, all the data is done by the civ, a creature without the framework is just a singular unit if not just a wilderness creature statistic, though the smallest entity/civ groups can be just one unit depending on what they are, like a army or refugee's from a very underpopulated place.
@EternalCaveDragon: It would be hard for a Were to implement any schemes since the phase where they can spread the curse (i.e. the Were phase) is one where they're completely overcome by rage, and thus unable to implement anything they might have planned. The problem is similar to that of sapient undead who are Opposed to Life (if that's how Toady implements them): the urge overpowers any plans.
The most effective plan would then probably be to try to position yourself sufficiently far away from a small group of weak victims that you ought to turn back while in the middle of slaughtering them, so some may survive (including yourself: being naked, unarmed, and confused while hostiles are around would be rather risky).@EternalCaveDragon: It would be hard for a Were to implement any schemes since the phase where they can spread the curse (i.e. the Were phase) is one where they're completely overcome by rage, and thus unable to implement anything they might have planned. The problem is similar to that of sapient undead who are Opposed to Life (if that's how Toady implements them): the urge overpowers any plans.
They can still ensure they're in a position for maximum spread of infection prior to the full moon and then move on afterward. It's a simplistic and haphazard plan but it's still planning that they'd be plenty capable of when in their non-were form.
Zombie performance troupes need to stay.
Can "villainous" networks be used for good, either by NPCs or players? In fiction, heroic spy networks are quite common. Not sure how heroic they are irl.
:I didn't think the arrival appointment of a monarch resulted in a fortress getting access to civ level diplomacy currently (I haven't noticed anything when my fortresses have been saddled with monarchs, anyway)?
#1: Only diplomats have the [Make Peace Agreements] responsibility etc currently, does this mean we won't be able to push our proposals of alliances if the option is open until in the post king + metropolis lategame when they arrive and become properly settled?
#2: Also sort of tied to the first question (by means of getting to the required noble which in theory should do diplomatic actions), will we be able to attack our allies or break our alliances directly?
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I didn't think the arrival appointment of a monarch resulted in a fortress getting access to civ level diplomacy currently?
Will "natural enemies" (Babysnatcher civ and non-babysnatcher civ, etc) join alliances together if threatened, or do they stick to their own?
And as the world bands together, putting aside old prejudices, the poor old kobolds are left to face the zombie apocalypse alone. Just because no-one understands what they're babbling about. How cruel.
Totally unrelated to the most immediate upcoming features, has multiplayer been analysed before as a possible feature to be added? What conclusions were drawn about the requirements/likellyhood/desire to add such feature?Toady said it's not going to happen.
DF isn't an RTS, i.e. its controls rely on automatic pausing while actions are taken, both to allow the player to make decisions in an intelligent (i.e. non time pressured) manner, and to avoid the mess resulting from sending orders on targets that cease to be valid or are replaced by unintended targets for a myriad reasons (the mess is the things DF would have to deal with: player mistakes aren't factored in here).Totally unrelated to the most immediate upcoming features, has multiplayer been analysed before as a possible feature to be added? What conclusions were drawn about the requirements/likellyhood/desire to add such feature?Toady said it's not going to happen.
There have been a few threads about trying to pull it off with DFHack, but it would be a lot of work and experienced programmer time is in short supply for the community.
Semi-related to FantasticDorf's question above, but referring to the previously noted lack of pushback by demons and druids on organized religions converting those in their sphere for goblins and elves respectively. Is tackling this in the works for the initial release or has it been pushed to a related release after the main villains release?
(https://puu.sh/Dvtpw/a57ab3131f.png)
Its been said in the devlogs in the that druids are a bit more prominent now to decide how their religions are run on elf-sites, and that while toady was preetty sure demon worship was still a thing from the old days, he'd appreciate whatever tinkering modders could do to rectify it. (image attached, look to January's FotF reply thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7908714#msg7908714)+ devlogs for that time)Quote(https://puu.sh/Dvtpw/a57ab3131f.png)
you mentioned that one of these new intelligent undead was killed defending its tower from an attack by another necromancer. Does that mean that necromacers aren't always on the same side, and undead can be made to attack each other now?Remember worldgen works differently to actual in-game interactions. Just look at all the non-goblin poets who go to live in the local Dark Pits to study under the poetry masters there. Try that in-game and see how long you last... :)
Currently I think raised zombies will ignore anything that's also undead, so vampire adventurers can just stroll right into a tower unimpeded. If they're taking their group affiliation into account now, I imagine this will change.
2. The current logic for material access decides what resources a civ gets access to based on what's available in the immediate vicinity of the starting Mountain Hall, and does not include adamantine currently. I'd expect dynamic resource access to be introduced at or after the introduction of an economy (and derived metal access may become based on access to the source metals as well).
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2. Does the computer-controlled dwarves breaking into hell mean that they get access to adamantine? If they do, how is this handled, considering fortress mode wagons have a seemingly endless supply of all kinds of metals, and I have a hard time imagining players should get access to adamantine without the risk of mining it themselves?
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4. Do elves eat the undead? Or, rather, the dead undead that they have just killed?
2. The current logic for material access decides what resources a civ gets access to based on what's available in the immediate vicinity of the starting Mountain Hall, and does not include adamantine currently. I'd expect dynamic resource access to be introduced at or after the introduction of an economy (and derived metal access may become based on access to the source metals as well).
Toady, do enemy civs ally together in response to player aggressiveness trying to scoop up settlements forcefully to eventually reach nobility targets like baron, duke and count? it seems like it'd be either too much of a deterrant going that path or a easy way to incur fun if you are the percieved world ending threat of a conquerer.
It is a pity Toady never got around to implement all the undeads he had planned back when he did vampires, werewolves, night trolls, mummies and ghosts. There was some really cool ones, like revenants.
Going off of the latest dev log, would it be correct to assume that forming alliances as a response to a particularly evil threat will also occur in response to modded in entities that fit that criteria as well? I do hope it is, it'd immerse modded in entities much more into modded worlds if they can interact just like the vanilla entities can with the new update.Devblog implies it's an alliance against any runaway Ethic:Kill_Neutral:Required civ. Should be easy enough to apply to mods.
Will the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?And if not, will they curse other histfigs they come across who survive the encounter?
Will the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?And if not, will they curse other histfigs they come across who survive the encounter?
It sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required. Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?And would that result in necromancers forming alliances when goblins start to take over the world...?
1. With the new geographical effects necromancers have in the upcoming update if a player necromancer makes a camp and collects enough undead minions can they cause a region to turn into it's evil version?
2. Since the new intelligent undead are technically sentient if a player adventurer gets killed and then raised back to life as an intelligent undead will we be able to play as them again if we select play as a specific creature reentering adventure mode?
3. Will player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
4. Who controls intelligent undead if their necromancer master is slain? Do they become free willed undead?
It sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required. Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?And would that result in necromancers forming alliances when goblins start to take over the world...?
I think [KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED] ethic is being taken slightly out of proportion regarding the context, as its a pretty simple trigger elves into attacking if pressed with charges of plant/animal ethic abuses in which to stomp some medium sized human civ somewhere like they do most of the time being the easiest to offend in the game.Or maybe he said it because that's what he meant to say.
The diametric differences between the entities [babysnatcher group hostility etc or imbalanced values and ethics] are probably more of a foundation why people would single out "kill neutral" civs than anything hardcoded to only ally against those groups. Maybe Toady attributed it without clarity of greater subtle context simply because it was a shared trait between the civs being attacked? im not sure.
If alliances can be tenous at times between our own 'side' of humans elves and dwarves, then its probably going to be just as strained between necromancers and "enemy" civs like goblins (and whatever else the player mods in with the intention to make this friction and give them company on their lonely side of the fence)
Two in a row, sorry...There is the option of editing the previous post to add stuff, rather than make a new one with an apology...
Could necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
Not being familiar with clever forum options, I didn't want to risk sending an alert to FantatiscDorf that I'd added to our riveting discussion only to have him plunge into despair at the realization that I'd added unrelated drivel. Happens more than you think...Two in a row, sorry...There is the option of editing the previous post to add stuff, rather than make a new one with an apology...
Could necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
While only Toady can answer the question, I'd expect it to be a rather specific "hack" as it's going to have to be done again more or less from scratch when spheres and their influences are implemented on a significantly changed foundation.
In the most recent front page update, you said that a Dwarven Civ can breach the underworld and be overtaken. At this point, a new civilization is formed.It's a demon and goblin civ. The dwarves are dead. So almost certainly not.
Is this new demon-ruled Dwarven civ playable?
I mean I could see a few dwarves escaping or being enslaved, but it still doesn't strike me as a playable situation.One plucky lad with an adamantine wafer tucked in his sock escapes. The epic tale starts here.
If the plucky lad escapes, it implies to me that he's a refugee from the destroyed ("struggling"?) civ, not the replacement one. Goblin civs assimilating conquered dorfs (and elves, and humies...) are still goblin civs, regardless of the race of individual members, or even the majority/all of the members (and a dwarven civ that has no dorfs, but only members of other races is still a dwarven civ, made embarkable only by the power of the void [dwarves]).I mean I could see a few dwarves escaping or being enslaved, but it still doesn't strike me as a playable situation.One plucky lad with an adamantine wafer tucked in his sock escapes. The epic tale starts here.
Considering you mentioned alliances in the second most recent devlog, is adding more diplomatic options and interactions to fort mode something planned for this release?A complication when it comes to diplomacy is that it mostly happens on the civ level, not the site one (the elven tree quota demands is an exception to this), and as far as I know a Fortress doesn't act as the head of a civ even when it's the Mountainhome with a monarch. This is something that will have to be addressed eventually, but I'd expect the bulk of it to wait until the Law & Customs arc where significant parts of the associated framework probably would have to be modified quite significantly. I'm interested in Toady's response regarding the short term, of course.
Considering you mentioned alliances in the second most recent devlog, is adding more diplomatic options and interactions to fort mode something planned for this release?A complication when it comes to diplomacy is that it mostly happens on the civ level, not the site one (the elven tree quota demands is an exception to this), and as far as I know a Fortress doesn't act as the head of a civ even when it's the Mountainhome with a monarch. This is something that will have to be addressed eventually, but I'd expect the bulk of it to wait until the Law & Customs arc where significant parts of the associated framework probably would have to be modified quite significantly. I'm interested in Toady's response regarding the short term, of course.
Do you think more investment into active diplomacy would break the cycles of DF that any small hitch in the working relationships of your fortress and outside civs eventually leads to a conflict without resolution?
To kind of add, gifting artifacts to my knowledge is meant to smooth things over as are demanding them but usually there's only really a few out of probably many (when you have a set of 10 therabouts) that other civs actually covet. Once you start a war often by accident of bugs without meaning to strain your relationship the only REAL resolution is to prepare to kill the entire population of the enemy which is often unfeasable.
Im aware of it being a abstact concept, but do you have any kind of view on making DF's war & politics more 'game' like for accessibility-(concepts like 'War Score' for instance to determine after how many raids, battles and razings the war's direction is going to pressure diplomatic action like surrender and peace) -or will the game always have other civs or 'actors' as it were in the abstract?
The breakdown and very scatty diplomacy breaks many wars this way, which are status quo because the relevant people are offsite or dead already and they won't quit, i think i had a near extinct human civ once battle a large elf nation for 200 years because they retreated (or bandits did) into the caves where they wouldn't be found once, that was a wierd world save (I've lost it now anyway).
Given that you're having music made for the steam version, does that mean that we shouldn't expect you to ever record more songs for the vanilla version?
Its odd and im sure someone can pick up a similar question asked previously, would you ever support DLC for the steam version collaboratively as a 'add on' or 'technical polishing' of a mod?
To provide a example, a popular mod like Masterwork utilises elements of the game through DFhack to incur the desired effect by reusing game assets or mechanics exploitatively on script command (teleportation etc), if you were to code over these, it would constitute besides what assets the mod creator can bring themselves like sprites to creating a premium package.
Regarding the latest dev log: It's an interesting "preview" of sphere influence logic to allow necro towers to change the evilness of their surroundings. Are you planning any counters to this (e.g. razing or conquering a necro tower causing the evilness to dissipate and the world tiles to gradually return to their base state) to avoid a gradual decay of the world into complete evilness as necro towers are created and stomped out?
I assume not, but just in case, will we be able to experience the creeping evil biome in fortress mode if we embark on the edge of the evil and leave the tower alone for years?
Opening the map and discovering you're now the one good square in a sea of evilness is kind of fun too, I guess...
Quote from: ZM5Regarding the newest devlog's mention of regions slowly becoming evil due to necromancer influence, will that be a hardcoded thing linked to towers or will that be more linked towards the caster type itself, so that modders could make the region become good over time insteadQuote from: Shonai_DwellerCould necromancer evil-biome spread be moddable at all for those with custom secrets mods and so on (spread of savagery, different site type spreads evil, etc)? Or has it been made in a way very specific to Necromancers and Tower sites?
Intelligent zombie lieutenants (with historical backgrounds!) are an exciting addition. Are they an automatic consequence of any corpse-raising interaction, or are they being restricted to the vanilla necromancers until the big magic rework? If they aren't restricted, is there a way to control the kind of names they are assigned depending on the interaction?
Since the abilities of a necromancer become the abilities of the player generally when they become a necromancer themselves, will we be able to raise our companions and important NPC's as intelligent zombies if they die?
A comparison i guess can be drawn from is the 'RPG Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic' where a specific skill branch of magic could allow you to speak to dead characters (killed by yourself or others) with lots of custom NPC lines arranged for that occasion. I wonder if revived zombies will be more talkative with you in death than they were life about sensitive subjects.
1. Will creatures with a very high intrigue/divination abilities be biased towards responding to threats from the player's party more rapidly compared to AI entities, at least to a small degree, for plot purposes?
2. Will characters with a vendetta against a villain be able to offer to join your party if they find out you're directly fighting said villain?
3. Will villains be able to send agents to try and infiltrate the player's party itself, for example by pretending to be a bereaved party seeking revenge (like in 2.)
4. Similar to 3, will villains be able to try and sow discord within an entity by pitting important members against each other through false evidence and slander, up to and including the player's party?
5. Will agents of villains be able to stalk the party, interrogate people that the party has talked to for info, etc.
6. Will 'disposable pawns' be a thing for sufficiently ruthless villains? e.g. tying up loose ends by killing low-level members that have fulfilled their purpose if they know too much, setting up low-level members to take the fall for a crime, etc.
7. Will the villains do petty, not-entirely-rational villainous actions if they're particularly vicious, arbitrary and it aligns with their personality in general? By this, I mean things like:
a) Killing subordinates for minor or imagined slights, perceived failure in their duties, or if they're unhinged enough, just for the heck of it
b) Dolling out disproportionate retribution to entities that have cooperated with their enemies, like butchering and burning down an entire village just because some peasant in it let the heroic adventurers stay overnight
c) Making a spectacle out of eliminating their enemies, e.g. publicly parading and then executing them, intentionally assassinating them in a brutal fashion in public, killing them in front of friends and loved ones (if said friends and loved ones are also prisoners, but also possibly keeping hostages around just to do this later if the villain expects a direct confrontation in the near future)
d) Destroying artifacts of sentimental value to their foes, if said artifact isn't too useful to them, or even destroying highly useful artifacts out of spite if they feel that their loss is imminent
Are our adventurers able to be raised as intelligent undead, or is it world-gen figures only?
1. Will we have the new intelligent undead in the old saves, so existing necromancers can get rolling with this in their villainy?
2. Will we have the same zombie caps as adventure-mode necromancers?
3. Will we be able to get stone to build proper necromancer towers and expand our zombie caps?
4. Will we be able to integrate zombies into our dwarf forts and set a "zombie policy" for resident necromancers to follow?
5. Will we be able to push back the evil regions spreading out from towers?
6. Will the evil regions spread from towers also have evil weather and blanket re-animation effects, or will it just be a normal region with zombies?
Personally, one advantage of the old system (DF2010) was that there wasn't an un-counterable blanket re-animation effect from the biome, and there wasn't say, evil rain that made a mess of the map. The zombies and skeletons coming in from the side was just great. The gloom clouds are another matter - I really liked that addition.
After a few years trawling through DF's raws, i noticed that a quite a few values seem to be set as placeholder or default values. For example:
-The attack-recover period of all weapons and almost all natural attacks (excluding kicks)
-The force multiplier of natural attacks
-The bodily-material toughness and thickness of everything made of flesh and bone, particularly concerning the lack of differences between beasts of drastic size difference (this may just be intended outright)
-The lack of differences in base stat attributes between beasts
-Plant thread and various other flexible materials fracturing with little bending or impact force, in particular, they seem to have various of both yields and fractures set as low as 10,000 in many cases.
My question is just thus, in your opinion, are these values:
-Intended to be as they are, as the role they serve is vague and combat calculations mysterious enough that they work good enough as is?
-Placeholders for an eventual material and physics detail rework?
-Left at values that work well enough, specifically so the modding community and contributors can refine the values for full conversion mods or otherwise general contributions?
or
-Some other intention?
There are quite a few things I know that -are- planned that would largely change the balance of materials, which is why I figure that a lot of the values acting as placeholders for the time being would make sense, like the multi-material-weapons feature and so forth.
Will there be a setting for the power of magic? So that in some worlds, wizards would be godlike, in others they would be on par with mundane sentients, and so on.
Will every secret-knower with a reanimation effect try to take over the world, or does it depend as well on their personalities or other interaction/syndrome tokens or other factors?
It matters to me specifically because I have mods with multiple secrets with reanimations, but I didn't want all of them to be aggressive world-conquerers or even necessarily villains in the first place.
Quote from: falccThere's a different tile for creatures that swim under the water, there's a sun direction, there is field of view, so: Is it possible, if only in a long-term development sense, to have reflections off of water and/or silvered mirrors?
I was listening to something in the LudoNarraCon talks before yours and was reminded that photorealism can't handle reflections at all. But even when your graphics are a bit more sophisticated, will it ever be possible to 'l'ook at something reflective and have the game know what tiles should be visible in that thing from your own position? Or, could a reflective mirror assembled somewhere add to your adventurer's field of view tiles?I'm just super curious if your kind of graphics have this advantage over non-text games.Quote from: therahedwigBesides reflection, are there plans for other vision weirdness things? Darkness is a thing already, but what about refraction/simple distortion or fog?
When necromancers attack cities, are they just trying to kill everyone, or do they stop after seizing power?
I've just always wondered if a necromancer's idea of world domination is anything less than "extinction of all life" and if the living have any place under their rule.
Edit: Additionally, will the death of a necromancer have any affect on their raised undead?
I know it currently doesn't, but it seems apropos for that to change now that the activities of zombies are being considered.
Are you considering allowing any of this 'undead runaway performer' thing to stay?
Do the intelligent undead have their old goals, dreams or preferences or are they clean slates?
Will the undead have any of their own agency or will they act solely under direction? Are they considered Opposed To Life?
Also what happens to an army of intelligent undead when their necromancer is bumped off?
I guess it may be a matter for Kitfox, but what do you envisage the Steam release to go like? Generally right now it's Release, Emergency patch or three, settle into small updates/bug fixes. This time might it make more sense to Free release, emergency patches then Steam release to avoid Steam backlash/refunding?
Or do you perhaps have a playtest with Kitfox/others planned? Or even a closed beta?
1. With the necromancers getting world conquest as a goal. Will other supernatural villains (vampires, werebeasts, and demons) that currently exist be getting similar goals as well? Such as for example a vampire wanting to increase the amount of vampires in the world and/or induct everyone into their associated cult. Or a werebeast getting the idea of turning everyone they can into werebeasts of their type.
1a. Same as above, but will the conventional villains also gain such aspirations? Would it require that their aspiration in life is to rule the world?
In many talks, specially the 9th one, I think (since that's the one I was listening some hours ago), you mention that you took classes in many areas aside from math. This combined with all the research you do for the different mechanics (also mentioned in the talks) gives a polymath air.
Are there any books you have read on sciences and history that you'd recommend to people, because you found them really good?
Are rogue adventurers(not belonging to any civ) gonna be able to acquire pets and mounts in adventure creation mode?
I kinda wanted to do an eragon mod and this question came to mind
If a sapient does not belong to any civ, which creatures does he have access to?
Question about advanced worldgen, since I'm struggling with a mod I'm doing - does setting the parameter for bogeyman generation to 0 completely disable bogey attacks, even if custom ones are in the raws folder, or does it only prevent vanilla bogeymen from generating?
Does the game, in WG fights, tally the dead after a big fight or is there some kind intermediet tally? Like are they fighting for X rounds and count the dead afterwards or do they count them each round?
Could a necro raise the fallen if they were part of one of the sides f.e. if they were under a coveridentity?
Will it be possible for players to become intelligent undead thralls?
Can "villainous" networks be used for good, either by NPCs or players? In fiction, heroic spy networks are quite common. Not sure how heroic they are irl.
#1: Only diplomats have the [Make Peace Agreements] responsibility etc currently, does this mean we won't be able to push our proposals of alliances if the option is open until in the post king + metropolis lategame when they arrive and become properly settled?
#2: Also sort of tied to the first question (by means of getting to the required noble which in theory should do diplomatic actions), will we be able to attack our allies or break our alliances directly?
The implicits here is that by the use of tags, unless the messenger plays a part, we'll receive alliance offers because our leaders can recieve diplomats or be locked into a pre-existing alliance that might or might not be favorable for us if our ally is doing silly things like starting wars (attacking a civ site with more enemy allies than us) we don't want to partake in or we assume that we're actually strong enough to beat them up too for looting and razing.
Have you given any thought to Steam trading cards for the game yet? You could probably do some crayon drawings or a small ASCII scene (like some regional tiles, the intro movie art, or a mayor's office.) Collect the full set and you get a badge of the DF logo dwarf for your Steam profile.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWill civs form alliances against anyone threatening to take over the world? (Mostly goblins, but elves get a lucky rng break every so often, and of course all those delightfully OP civs added by modders) or is it solely for zombie threats? Or perhaps "supernatural threats" if that's a defined thing now?
Will "natural enemies" (Babysnatcher civ and non-babysnatcher civ, etc) join alliances together if threatened, or do they stick to their own?Quote from: FantasticDorfDo distant in far away lands or normally hostile (see shonai's quoted green question on goblin allies) allies trade with your site or alter their behaviour after signing a agreement?
Because beside poking them with a raid or summoning caravans with DFhack (as the masterwork mod does, though thats not applicable here) you'd normally require to embark closer to them. Goblins can't trade but not ruling out peddlers in the future, it could afford us some respite from babysnatchers while the alliance (/truce?) is up.
Right now im pretty sure the only way you can get goblin instruments (cave croc bone drum has pride of place in my tavern) and miscellaneous things is by exorted tribute or looting.Quote from: FantasticDorfToady, do enemy civs ally together in response to player aggressiveness trying to scoop up settlements forcefully to eventually reach nobility targets like baron, duke and count? it seems like it'd be either too much of a deterrant going that path or a easy way to incur fun if you are the percieved world ending threat of a conquerer.Quote from: EternalCaveDragonGoing off of the latest dev log, would it be correct to assume that forming alliances as a response to a particularly evil threat will also occur in response to modded in entities that fit that criteria as well? I do hope it is, it'd immerse modded in entities much more into modded worlds if they can interact just like the vanilla entities can with the new update.Quote from: GoblinCookieIt sounds like folks only form alliances against those who are Kill Neutral Required. Does that mean that goblins will never ally with other races to stop the zombie invasion because goblin civs will not ally with other races to stop another goblin civilization taking over the world? Would two goblin civilizations ally against a zombie invasion?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerHi, just to clarify, by "requires the killing of neutrals", did you mean civs (including zombies) which have the tag "Ethic:Kill_Neutral:Required" or something else?
You mentioned villains having a chance to follow through or not on their power-sharing promises to their minions -I'm interested to know if the minions will be able to act on thwarted aspirations?
Poor minions waiting forever in blue-balled limbo without acting, while their masters make a continuous stream of new promises they have no intention of fulfilling (we could make a society out of this. No don't). Although this sort of thing is the fulcrum of many a story - the enraged minion who has been denied one too many times and decides to take matters into their own hands. Although on the flip side, I suppose you've then got to take into account every person in fiction (and history) who ever said "Yes, Urist McMinion, you'll be rich/powerful beyond your wildest dreams!" before having the recipient of said promise disappear in one way or another (which I'm assuming is just a whole new tangled sub-branch of code in this very dense canopy...)
little bit of a callback question to the prophets and religious work of this arc, while i was explaining this to someone else asking about diverse migrants to help them with their suggestion thread It struck me that the current fortress prayer method of using (no-specific-denomination) might end up mass attracting potential migrants already visiting in other areas of your civ if foriegn long term residents are allowed to pray, possibly leading to annoying build up like the adventurer spam a few versions ago.
Its a common thing that cross species migration can happen if enough citizens simply enter the civ to stay (rarely if never normally except in following point), like for example hundreds of 'slaves' made fast citizens after goblins go on a civ conquering rampage and displace them all virtually. Funnily enough quite like your elf vs zombie mountain halls fight in the recent devlog, just a snowball effect, the dead making more undead and goblin raids making more goblin(ish) raiders.
Are varied migrants called by faith actively disabled/enabled in fortress mode; and would these general faith sites vs specific ones break anything later in background w.g hazarding a guess?
Totally unrelated to the most immediate upcoming features, has multiplayer been analysed before as a possible feature to be added? What conclusions were drawn about the requirements/likellyhood/desire to add such feature?
Semi-related to FantasticDorf's question above, but referring to the previously noted lack of pushback by demons and druids on organized religions converting those in their sphere for goblins and elves respectively. Is tackling this in the works for the initial release or has it been pushed to a related release after the main villains release?
So are these new civs basically goblin civs lead by a released demon? Or actual full-on hell civs packed with demons and a couple of goblins thrown in? Do they create the initial goblins?
you mentioned that one of these new intelligent undead was killed defending its tower from an attack by another necromancer. Does that mean that necromacers aren't always on the same side, and undead can be made to attack each other now?
Currently I think raised zombies will ignore anything that's also undead, so vampire adventurers can just stroll right into a tower unimpeded. If they're taking their group affiliation into account now, I imagine this will change.
Quote from: voliol1. Is there any difference between the different kinds of intelligent undead, or are the different names just there for procedural flavor and to give the player a hint to who raised them?
2. Does the computer-controlled dwarves breaking into hell mean that they get access to adamantine? If they do, how is this handled, considering fortress mode wagons have a seemingly endless supply of all kinds of metals, and I have a hard time imagining players should get access to adamantine without the risk of mining it themselves?
3. New goblin(?) or at least demon-lead civs being born excites me, as that would indicate a change from the current status quo where civilizations only die out instead of being created. However, how about the other forces of evil? Are big enough undead empires considered full civilizations (showing up like that on the c-screen etc.) or are they still considered only expansions of one necromancer's villainous network?
4. Do elves eat the undead? Or, rather, the dead undead that they have just killed?Quote from: BimbusWith the Dwarves being able to breach the Underworld, will Adamantite finally be used in worldgen?
For the new demons creating new goblin civs, is it planned to have that happen in post worldgen background sim as well. That is, if a player fort fails due breaching hell, will we see the consequences once we have a new fort, or will this be a bit too much for this release?
You said the new intelligent zombie can "can retain much of their old identity". What part of their old personality is missing exactly? Their memories and relationships?
Can necromancers revive intelligent beings as a "good" deed? (For example, reuniting old family members or helping with a murder case.) Or is that more of a magic update thing and beyond the scope of the current update?
Can a mummy be appeased by delivering the lost artifact back to it?
Quote from: Enemy postWill the mummies' curses be changed now that they can leave their tombs without the player's prompting?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAnd if not, will they curse other histfigs they come across who survive the encounter?
1. With the new geographical effects necromancers have in the upcoming update if a player necromancer makes a camp and collects enough undead minions can they cause a region to turn into it's evil version?
2. Since the new intelligent undead are technically sentient if a player adventurer gets killed and then raised back to life as an intelligent undead will we be able to play as them again if we select play as a specific creature reentering adventure mode?
3. Will player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
4. Who controls intelligent undead if their necromancer master is slain? Do they become free willed undead?
In the most recent front page update, you said that a Dwarven Civ can breach the underworld and be overtaken. At this point, a new civilization is formed.
Is this new demon-ruled Dwarven civ playable?
Considering you mentioned alliances in the second most recent devlog, is adding more diplomatic options and interactions to fort mode something planned for this release?
You noted on usesthis that you listen to music constantly; do you listen to music while programming DF and if so, what kind?
Do the new organized religions interact with megabeast worship at all? I'm not sure if it's really that different since it isn't now other than megabeast worship being prompted by a megabeast attack (or two) and deity/force worship exists from the beginning of world generation. The megabeasts are simply listed as another deity when creating a temple to my knowledge. So are megabeasts that become objects of worship treated the same as regular gods and goddesses in this regard?
They have goblins so that they can behave normally, but they have a pack of 5-20 non-civ-leader underworld demons to make them scarier, and they also have a standard demon leader. All of these creatures are created on the spot, as the underworld is assumed to have unnumbered amounts of such beings currently, though the goblin is faked and indeed it just checks for the EVIL tag on them, the good old EVIL tag. I didn't bother simulating their underworld pops on account of time and the upcoming magic release clarification of these matters.
Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release? Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?
Removing workshops and replacing them with something more zone-based, which might in-turn entail some stockpile changes is, according to Toady, a save-breaking update that would need a big update like Mythgen to work on. So the question is valid. Are all stockpile updates off until workshops are replaced, or might the UI development arc include some stockpile changes?Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release? Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?
I don't quite follow how the question is connected to itself, but i dont think Toady made any specific plans in the near term for that, it'd be more worthwhile to make a suggestion thread detailing why you'd think it'd be good with some practical examples if you can provide them.
Toady can change stockpiles or mundane mechanical things like that at any time, not that he needs to wait for a arc to do it when there's other bigger fish to fry like the terrain re-write all the magic systems etc, the big arc stuff is usually annotated with some directed goals on the devlog or threetoes stories.
Something to add onto the previous message: Would you, as an adventurer, be able to play a sort of "marching tune"/etc. used during fights that you're a bystander to, similar to real-life military "marching tunes" played by drummers in military forces? This may not happen in some places at present, but it did once.
@IncompetentFortressMaker: The thread convention is that questions to Toady are marked by (lime) green to make it easier for him to round them up when it comes time to answer the latest month's harvest. You can edit your post to do that, if desired.Fortunately for those of us who enjoy fun, Dwarf Fortress is a fantasy world simulatoras opposed to a history book. Made to reproduce those fun moments from a world of fantasy fiction.
I thought marching beats/music was/is used for marching, i.e. travel, while it would be rather useless in battle because of all the noise, so you'd miss most of it. Using instruments for signaling is a different issue.
Most of the time in history people fled from the vicinity of the battle field, rather than bring picnic baskets and musicians to watch the mess.
I'm just curious if he had it on his mind at all to make changes to how stockpiles work, that's all. I'm not suggesting specific changes really, merely providing an example of a possible change I've seen already in other threads. I know this thread is supposed to be just current development stuff, but I haven't found where stockpiles fit in anywhere yet. Some parts of stockpile changes might fit in with the army / military stuff, so I suppose that might be when we see changes to them.The answer if ToadyOne has plans or open to changes about any thing in the game, is always a yes. The game isnt in a polishing state. Stockpiles will probably get touch upon when they relate to whats being worked on currently. The Villian frame work doesnt seem to involve itself with stockpiles.
I'm just curious if he had it on his mind at all to make changes to how stockpiles work, that's all. I'm not suggesting specific changes really, merely providing an example of a possible change I've seen already in other threads. I know this thread is supposed to be just current development stuff, but I haven't found where stockpiles fit in anywhere yet. Some parts of stockpile changes might fit in with the army / military stuff, so I suppose that might be when we see changes to them.The answer if ToadyOne has plans or open to changes about any thing in the game, is always a yes. The game isnt in a polishing state. Stockpiles will probably get touch upon when they relate to whats being worked on currently. The Villian frame work doesnt seem to involve itself with stockpiles.
Could you say a few words about whether (or not?) the accessibility improvements for the steam release will include any changes to things like workshops, zones, burrows, and the various selection methods?
E.g. Different ways of marking multiple tiles at once for various designation actions, workshops functioning different than zones / locations, that type of thing.Quote from: Tarnunifying all the workshop/zones/etc. was part of a larger project and might be a bit much, but doing different mousy rectangles and that sort of thing definitely in the mix. there will be an uncomfortable point where we have to decide just how much we can bite off in terms of wider rewrites, tradeoff between the delay and the first impression
I could be too early to ask but if a player-necromancer gathers a lot of zombies will AI civilizations attack him (ally to attack him)?
If so, will they try to deliberately kill necromancer to lower the threat or just fight wall on wall or it's too much for current AI to demand?
Forget my last message, I didn't know soulless undead used a different histfig. Still maybe make sure it doesn't crash tho. Also, last I knew there was some hard-coded thing where you couldn't resume playing as an adventurer if they got turned into a night troll or zombie while retired. I want there to be, at the very least, a way to work around that and play as a night troll before the Big Wait. It won't kill me if you don't have time, but please?
Related to the story you posted recently about Ustuth; since obviously assassination plots are now being carried out post-worldgen, do players have to worry about assassin's getting into the fort and killing our nobles? We don't get any special protection from those cases, right?I asked about this some months ago:
Assuming that's the case, do they show up hostile, trying to sneak in in ambush from the get-go? Or will we have to screen out other visitors?
The vanilla ones are all generally outcasts, since communities all kick them out for not aging after a time, and they often pre-empt that by leaving first, and see plots as required.
Regarding your concerns about healthcare, have you ever thought about relocating to a country without these kinds of issues (e.g. most of Europe)?I imagine naturalizing to a nation, or receiving a green card to a nation will both be difficult for self-employed individuals, yes?
Thanks for the answers, Toady!I would expect the ethics involved to be unnatural resistance to aging, not the innate one of elves and goblins. Logically, that also ought to mean that goblin and elven necros wouldn't have to flee as long as they don't practice their art in a manner that would raise suspicion. However, I also suspect that the logic may not (yet) check for racial non aging protection against detection, causing goblin and elven necros to behave as ones from mortal races.QuoteThe vanilla ones are all generally outcasts, since communities all kick them out for not aging after a time, and they often pre-empt that by leaving first, and see plots as required.
Is there a specific ethic concerning this? Will goblins and elves be invariably kicked out of human communities as a rule as a result of their extended lifespans being offensive to mere mortals?
That also brings to question, will goblin and elven necromancers become integrated assets to said goblin and elven communities, or is that kind of cross-interaction for much later releases?
Regarding your concerns about healthcare, have you ever thought about relocating to a country without these kinds of issues (e.g. most of Europe)?I imagine naturalizing to a nation, or receiving a green card to a nation will both be difficult for self-employed individuals, yes?
And how much would it cost for Dwarf Fortress fans to pay full insurance for Threetoe and Toady? Apart from donations, perhaps a gofundme or some such thing could be held. Not that I could personally afford to chip in even a penny but there's the idea at least.I suspect anyone able and willing to pay the monthly costs of insurance for Zach and Tarn are already paying them monthly for making Dwarf Fortress. Just a guess though.
How much money are we talking about here?
How much money are we talking about here?
Given a mundane EMT transport to the hospital alone, with no in-transit treatment other than a vitals check, can push 1000 bucks...
But... I mean insurances doesn't mean you pay an x flat ammount per month or year (in monthly payments anyway) and that covers almost anything, or at least the basic stuff? That's how it used to work here.
that covers almost anything, or at least the basic stuff?All the affordable insurance plans won't pay for anything, mostly they just throw in a few coins if you cry enough.
that covers almost anything, or at least the basic stuff?All the affordable insurance plans won't pay for anything, mostly they just throw in a few coins if you cry enough.
They usually don't cover everything involved in a treatment either. For example, covering the surgery, but not the anesthesia or the operation room use. Covering hospital stay but not nurse service and post-op medication.
To top it of, after you went through all your trouble and got a top-notch plan they will tell you that one of the providers involved are not included in their service network and you get stuck with the full bill of the individual service.
I thought Brazil had it rough.
Got a few questions for this time around. Please pardon any repeats of others' questions:On boats:
1. I recall there was an elf from a dev log who was notable for multiple simultaneous lovers and affairs. What sort of personality traits/orientation results would bring about such an outcome. Did you look into why that was?
2. A question for later down the line, but, do you have any preliminary ideas on how you want to implement boats? Aside from simply implementing them, of course. I ask because the possibility of having some control over what they look like would be a big bonus for me.
3. In regards to the court/household positions, do they appear anywhere outside of world gen/legends mode? And are they moddable in any way currently?
On boats:
https://www.pcgamer.com/why-the-creator-of-dwarf-fortress-is-really-excited-about-boats/
Since villains will now be able to send messages in some cases will their messengers also have to be in on the plot or would the messages be delivered in written form like letters to keep the messenger oblivious?I might be wrong, but "abstractly" in this case probably means there won't be a messenger. Just an incriminating message. The messengers system doesn't go beyond Player Fortress to Player Hillocks yet and doesn't seem to have been expanded (might still be though, I guess).
Hi Tarn, you will change the mode of legends for release in Steam, if so it will be adding a mouse scroll or something more complicate?Tarn should be able to give a more complete answer, but we know that most parts of the gui are being looked at for the steam release, and that mouse support will likely be omnipresent. Zach is currently working on redesigning these menus, so if he has gotten to the legends mode already I suppose there could already be a close-to-finished concept.
Do you have any plans to change how stockpiles work between now and the Myth & Magic release? Such as giving clothing stockpiles the ability to only accept worn out clothing?
With the new strategic combat system for adventurer parties, will the party bard (assuming an rpg player chooses a performance focused skillset in lieu of combat skill) have anything to do in combat besides watch and remember the tale for later? Or is it solely fighters up front, covering fire from the ranger and thief hides in the shadows for this release?
I know "magic tunes" is something for Mythgen to handle, but srirring battle music exists already, for example.
You mentioned something interesting about how demons can take over dwarven civilizations that dig too deep. I am wondering, what happens if you generate a world without any procedurally generated demons, but create custom creatures which will inhabit that layer instead? Say, I made my own demonic race that inhabited layer 5 of the underground, would they spawn in the place of demons (and alongside goblins assuming they are present) or are procedurally generated demons an absolute requirement for hellish takeovers of civilizations?
Also, I noticed necromancers might be able to alter the biome around them to an evil one. If that works, will it be modifiable via raws or hardcoded? Could you make megabeasts do it too, for example? Or have custom creatures spawned for different necromancer/creature types?
Toady, If a member of your fortress is ressurected as a intelligent undead by a fortress dwarf practitioner of necromancy in a relatively intact state (lets say drowning or freezing in ice) will they retain their civ links to just re-join your fortress population or become a abstract neutral unit/visitor like mindless zombies are?
I mean it wouldn't be outside of the possibility that a necromancer fortress could be self sustaining through raising intelligent undead-dwarves (and some other intelligent creatures if they will actively join/forced to join the fortress) to live life like they would have been alive, similar to the all vampire fortresses people have built in order to make use of immortality buffs it brings with no mortals to die in the crossfire when everyone is turned.
One other sort of related question: Can group leadership and mayoral etc votes in fortress be attributed to forced magical or conspiratorial links (intelligent undead unanimous'ly and loyally supporting the nomination of their master) to gain a majority?
I would think so, but some greater clarity on the point before Citizen Dwarf Kane uses a degree of fortress intimidation rolls and networking on a low level plot to become mayor of blockgravel would be handy, pretty much like how real life politics works and not dissimilar to the most popular dwarf winning already. (I realise i might have answer my own question but i would look forward to a response regardless)
I could be too early to ask but if a player-necromancer gathers a lot of zombies will AI civilizations attack him (ally to attack him)?
If so, will they try to deliberately kill necromancer to lower the threat or just fight wall on wall or it's too much for current AI to demand?
Yo Toady, I think I found a bug based on 1. your statements about intelligent undead, and 2. current werebeast game mechanics. If you have a werebeast and you slice it into pieces and resurrect them just before the full moon, you can actually get multiple whole bodies belonging to the same histfig, or at least you could last I knew. What if you took those bodies and applied the "intelligent undead" spell to more than one of them, wouldn't that crash the game?
Forget my last message, I didn't know soulless undead used a different histfig. Still maybe make sure it doesn't crash tho. Also, last I knew there was some hard-coded thing where you couldn't resume playing as an adventurer if they got turned into a night troll or zombie while retired. I want there to be, at the very least, a way to work around that and play as a night troll before the Big Wait. It won't kill me if you don't have time, but please?
Will adventurer mode party members be able to spar with one another non-lethally? Or will they at least be able to fight without wanting to murder one another?
Related to the story you posted recently about Ustuth; since obviously assassination plots are now being carried out post-worldgen, do players have to worry about assassin's getting into the fort and killing our nobles? We don't get any special protection from those cases, right?
Assuming that's the case, do they show up hostile, trying to sneak in in ambush from the get-go? Or will we have to screen out other visitors?
Regarding your concerns about healthcare, have you ever thought about relocating to a country without these kinds of issues (e.g. most of Europe)?
Is there a specific ethic concerning [necromancer expulsion]? Will goblins and elves be invariably kicked out of human communities as a rule as a result of their extended lifespans being offensive to mere mortals?
That also brings to question, will goblin and elven necromancers become integrated assets to said goblin and elven communities, or is that kind of cross-interaction for much later releases?
Will crime syndicate system and the bandit system be merged? Or will they be kept separate? TIA
1) Did villains end up with plots to steal pets?
2) Can you give animals to people in order to earn their favor?
3) If people see an animal they like is hanging out with you in adventure mode, will their improved mood make them any more amenable to talking with you or traveling with you?
4) Before the big wait, will people talk more about their favorite animals, colors, foods, and art styles?
Right now you can parse out if somebody likes a tone of music based on their responses, which is WILD, but it's hard to get much of a personality picture in adventure mode even with extended interactions since they don't need to eat or anything.
5) Can you ride a horse that isn't yours? If you jump on a horse that isn't yours, what does the horse think? What do people of the village it belongs to think about it? What about if you didn't tell it to leave but just sat there, just having landed on someone's horse? Is that like being seen in sneak mode?
6) If you start with a bunch of cows with your adventuring group, are they all pets, or can you just have a herd's worth of food to live off of through the barren winter months?
7) Where does it draw the pool of embarkable adventure mode animals from? Could that pool be expanded through the concentrated efforts of the player, either in adventure mode or through domesticating in fortresses?
8 ) Can adventurers enact the cattle raid style missions they can currently do if they retire in a fort?
9) What if, hypothetically, an adventurer leapt onto a dragon? What if it'd been tamed by a fortress, or was a dragon of a group not at war with the player's civilization? What if it *hadn't* been tamed by a fortress? What does the dragon think about all this and could it ever end well for the player with an extremely good animal handling roll and some foreplanning?
1. I recall there was an elf from a dev log who was notable for multiple simultaneous lovers and affairs. What sort of personality traits/orientation results would bring about such an outcome. Did you look into why that was?
2. A question for later down the line, but, do you have any preliminary ideas on how you want to implement boats? Aside from simply implementing them, of course. I ask because the possibility of having some control over what they look like would be a big bonus for me.
3. In regards to the court/household positions, do they appear anywhere outside of world gen/legends mode? And are they moddable in any way currently?
Since villains will now be able to send messages in some cases will their messengers also have to be in on the plot or would the messages be delivered in written form like letters to keep the messenger oblivious?
Hi Tarn, you will change the mode of legends for release in Steam, if so it will be adding a mouse scroll or something more complicate?
(In the upcoming release) - Will villaneous adventurers be able to send messages to their minions too? Or are we limited to direct interactions with our party members? I can see how it might be useful to send a message to call your best fighter back home from his assassination plot when you discover the local necromancer is planning to take you out.
Will you expand the messenger system worldwide this time, or will it all be abstracted slow-moving email between villains and their minions for the foreseeable future?
I am wondering, what happens if you generate a world without any procedurally generated demons, but create custom creatures which will inhabit that layer instead? Say, I made my own demonic race that inhabited layer 5 of the underground, would they spawn in the place of demons (and alongside goblins assuming they are present) or are procedurally generated demons an absolute requirement for hellish takeovers of civilizations?Quote from: toadyoneIn the current version, FEATURE_BEAST, TITAN, DEMON and UNIQUE_DEMON are restricted tags, and in order for there to be demons, the DEMON and UNIQUE_DEMON tags are used. It might break something horribly if I allow them and modders use them, but I've gone ahead and allowed it anyway.
Thanks for the answers ToadyQuote from: squamousI am wondering, what happens if you generate a world without any procedurally generated demons, but create custom creatures which will inhabit that layer instead? Say, I made my own demonic race that inhabited layer 5 of the underground, would they spawn in the place of demons (and alongside goblins assuming they are present) or are procedurally generated demons an absolute requirement for hellish takeovers of civilizations?Quote from: toadyoneIn the current version, FEATURE_BEAST, TITAN, DEMON and UNIQUE_DEMON are restricted tags, and in order for there to be demons, the DEMON and UNIQUE_DEMON tags are used. It might break something horribly if I allow them and modders use them, but I've gone ahead and allowed it anyway.
I think it would be a great opportunity for the modding community to flex their muscles and get a taste of maybe what is to come regarding myth and magic if they could play with the restricted fields a little bit. Writing in your own demon's out of the kind of community creations that probably deserve that praise like the work of ZM5's very unnatural sets of monsters.If such a scenario did occur with freedom to write demons on file (at own risk obviously), would we see mainstream integration of tags like [DEMON] on lesser creatures such as fire imps with a bit more context on what defines a demonic leader vs small fry like them by using [POWER] on file, versus other definitions of player created ambient wildlife and intelligent races that may be demonic themselves?
- I've heard of modifications that drop pseudo demon creatures into the same inhabited layer in the underworld via subterranean biome depth leading into a battle royale against crazed demons much of the time in a effort to pad the place out a bit so i do think there's a underlying want from the community for it.
Summoning a fire imp from a slab would be pretty sucky for the effort to generate it, but summoning multiple vaguely loyal fire imps in a fight from a incantation depending on the attributive cost might actually not be so bad
If I understood it well, Dwarf Fortress is currently "three-games-in-one", because each one of them has different mechanisms. For implementing the new villain features, you begun to modify worldgen in first place, after that you'll change some adventure mode things and in last place you'll do the same in fortress mode.The main reason World Gen, Fortress Mode, and Adventure Mode require different coding is because of their scales. World Gen is on the global scale and typically spans centuries of history that has to actually get done in a somewhat reasonable time, meaning the mechanics have to be somewhat simplified and abstracted. As far as I understand, the activated world (i.e. what's happening in the world outside of the vicinity of the adventurer or fortress) is similar to the world gen history, but has to take more complicated data structures generated during play into consideration, and can also afford to have a higher level of detail/complexity because of the slower rate (rather than spending 5 minutes generating each year of history, a year's worth of history in game play is generated in the background over the course of hours).
However, I suppose in th future "three games" could melt in one and you could modify anything in worldgen that would make changes directly into adventure and fortress modes (it would be ideal).
So, these are my cuestions:
In what degree are the three games currently connected at the development level?
What elements of the world generation could be reflected in both modes automatically after their modification?
And is it possible to achieve a definitive fusion that could in a way facilitate your work?
If you really did open up those tags for the next version, that is incredible and I love it! Been making demons for players to summon/transform into anyway, but now they can actually be treated as such by the game.
I wonder if demon is like crazed and makes them hostile to everything. Hmm, maybe not smart to summon those...
If you really did open up those tags for the next version, that is incredible and I love it! Been making demons for players to summon/transform into anyway, but now they can actually be treated as such by the game.
I wonder if demon is like crazed and makes them hostile to everything. Hmm, maybe not smart to summon those...
That was kind of the direction my question was going towards, differences between on-file entities and usual demons, as incase we don't recieve a fire imp (I mean if the tag can be applied, why not?) tower lord without supporting tags in the usual context of "Oh this creature has [POWER]" rather than the sole arguement of being demonic.
It can also be noted that the third mode, Legends Mode, isn't the same as World Gen, but rather World Gen PLUS whatever happens during the period fortresses and adventurers are played in the world, both in the background and as a result of player actions.
It would be hilarious if a mortal npc attempted to flirt with the undead, only to realize their mistake too late, or the undead got outed because someone tried to grab their hand and realized they're dead coldOr, even funnier, the undead is so good at keeping up the facade that the two court, get married, and spend several years together before the mortal figures it out.
And thus "Weekend at Urist's" startedIt would be hilarious if a mortal npc attempted to flirt with the undead, only to realize their mistake too late, or the undead got outed because someone tried to grab their hand and realized they're dead coldOr, even funnier, the undead is so good at keeping up the facade that the two court, get married, and spend several years together before the mortal figures it out.
Challenge: how many giant gators can you pat before losing a bodypart?
Challenge: how many giant gators can you pat before losing a bodypart?
Unless you're a elf, which case you can pat wild [NATURAL] animals regardless because they don't draw up aggression from them, after some snout nuzzling, stroking or patting jumping straight onto their backs i don't know whether that'd count.
Will we be able to form relationships with our animals in adventure mode or are they always serventile for the adventurer mode editor?
For mainly concerns about accidentally escalating combat with your animals accidental or otherwise, maybe with unrelated wild animals like i mentioned above with elves welcoming enough to let us get close.
Zombies are kind of finnicky about those things, they need to be put down if they end up on the wrong side of combat because of the nature that they are mindless but obliging. Accidentally enraging your pet undead dragon in the future releases context doesn't sound like a smart move but might easily be done without a way to calm them down again.
Will linux version of df be available on stream?This has been asked before and the answer up till now is 'no idea'.
How exactly does a historical figure choose to divorce their spouse in worldgen? Is it based on their current relationship 'status', civilization ethics, general personality, or something else entirely? Are all divorces now 'mutual' in the sense that both parties wish to end the relationship, or is it possible for only one partner to end the marriage?
Will the Steam version come with any sort of in-game tutorial? Just asking since I know that's something a lot of people have wanted out of DF ever since its inception, and a commercial release just seems to me like a good occasion to finally implement one. Maybe you're still undecided either way at this point, which is fine.
Should we do tips and tutorials and that kind of thing? Seems like a solid thing. It's difficult to make a good tutorial, but making a tutorial in Dwarf Fortress, just having things that pop up, conditions that can be met, that's the kind of thing that I can code up very quickly, and could be written for something like mining without taking months.
At the same time, considering the issues on what can go wrong in a tutorial, if you're just doing the mining tutorial but you're doing it in a live fortress environment ... you have a dwarf, and you want him to have a pick and go dig. They'll do it, but how many ways can a dwarf lose a pick, right? If both their arms broke in an accident, like a tree fell on them because you'd just had a carpenter go out and chop down a tree, and then the tutorial is trying to tell you 'why don't you dig?'
We've got to detect what's going on, and there's a lot of ways a tutorial can go wrong. I think we're in a position that's a little more complicated than the average game in terms of even basic tutorials working. At the same time it's kind of a fun challenge to make a mining health detector. Then you start thinking, that's something that should be in the regular game, anyway: 'Why isn't this job being done?' Now we add in a 'why isn't this job being done' functionality, and that ties into how tutorials can be repaired.
Then the tutorial repair code can be like 'You know, we're giving you a one-time limb repair, your dwarf happens to have no arms for whatever reason, we're not going to judge you, we'll give you those arms back, let's finish the tutorial together.'
It'd be something that once we think about and plan it through, we can get quite a bit on the basic parts of the game. Like, the beekeeping tutorial is probably a little out of scope. But that's where Steam Achievements come in.
We already have means to capture enemies (cage traps), so the question really becomes two:
:
4) If 3 is true, will we be able to capture disabled soldiers of invading forces (such as goblins)? Any plans for that (interrogations, etc)
:
We already have means to capture enemies (cage traps), so the question really becomes two:
Well that would be one thing, but I can see there's plenty of problems with trying to capture someone in the middle of the battle. There's plenty of enemies that end up getting disabled before they are killed and if you can provide some assistance so they live a bit longer, then you can capture a few after the dust settled. You could also equip soldiers with hammers, as it would decrease mortality.Trying to capture someone in the middle of a battle is probably a bad idea, yes. Capture requires extra time and resources (tying material, which can be abstracted, disarming that probably would have to be explicit, and prisoner guards that have to be removed from the actual battle to guard the prisoners). Thus, capture would presumably be reserved for mopping up (e.g. those pesky campers that just sit around twiddling their thumbs when the others flee). Still there's no reason for the game to refuse you the option of giving stupid(/brave/creative) orders.
1)Will the new aquifer changes means it could be viable not to use constructed walls but instead construct a drainage system of grates and underground tunnels that naturally drain the aquifer somewhere else? Or will the water flow be too much for dwarfs to go through?
2)Will water someday seep through constructed walls, albeit at a slower rate the more walls there are between the aquifer/water source and the walls, making drainage systems for mines an actual necessity?
3)Will different kinds of rocks have different rates of permeability, affecting the speed that water seeps through the aquifer, or it will always be a fixed rate?
Quote from: Flying TeasetsWill rock salt ever become an edible item?
Bumber: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7933281#msg7933281
Random_Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7933335#msg7933335
This has been on the table with, say, food preservation before, and recipes and all that. So there are few angles and we'll get there when that stuff comes back into view, whenever that might be.
Unless you're a elf, which case you can pat wild [NATURAL] animals regardless because they don't draw up aggression from them, after some snout nuzzling, stroking or patting jumping straight onto their backs i don't know whether that'd count.
For mainly concerns about accidentally escalating combat with your animals accidental or otherwise, maybe with unrelated wild animals like i mentioned above with elves welcoming enough to let us get close.
Zombies are kind of finnicky about those things, they need to be put down if they end up on the wrong side of combat because of the nature that they are mindless but obliging. Accidentally enraging your pet undead dragon in the future releases context doesn't sound like a smart move but might easily be done without a way to calm them down again.
Tavern games question for Toady (and only Toady, ye great and mighty bunch of question stealers):Digging through the forum should find you bits and pieces of the plans from the Taverns arc. That way you can answer the question yourself and not have to put up with those other evil-forumites doing the same thing for the love of dwarf fortress information.
When adding Tavern games, will you be adding board games as a subgenre? I'd love to get some games of Settlers of Catan in on my Dwarven carved bone set. :D
That new devlog is really exciting - I fully support the bogeyman change.What about modding them? Whatever\wherever they are. ;D
Question about the "summon" interaction that was mentioned - how will they work exactly? Will they innately spawn with armor/clothes (if intelligent, anyway) and will they be loyal to the caster who summoned them? Would there also be a possible time limit on how much they linger?
Oh whoops, I fixed the post. I blame the heat wave.That new devlog is really exciting - I fully support the bogeyman change.What about modding them? Whatever\wherever they are. ;D
Question about the "summon" interaction that was mentioned - how will they work exactly? Will they innately spawn with armor/clothes (if intelligent, anyway) and will they be loyal to the caster who summoned them? Would there also be a possible time limit on how much they linger?
Wow, awesome to see more pre-mythgen magic. While I'm mostly relieved about the bogeymen change, I have to admit that part of me is probably gonna miss the little troublemakers.after the set up of civil/playable bogeymen with just the entity animal tokens.
Wow, awesome to see more pre-mythgen magic. While I'm mostly relieved about the bogeymen change, I have to admit that part of me is probably gonna miss the little troublemakers.after the set up of civil/playable bogeymen with just the entity animal tokens.
kinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?
though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurer
seems like you got most of the question, but it mostly wondering if the bogeyman spawn in state which I usually call 'the cackling' for clarity is going to be restricted to just where the nightmare demon and the nightmare sphere? like given how demons hang out with goblins forts it would likely means dark towers who are notoriously known to be fps killing experiences will just have bogeymen spawning in. this set up would probably make dark fortresses even more of a place no one will just go to out of fear of extreme slowdown.Wow, awesome to see more pre-mythgen magic. While I'm mostly relieved about the bogeymen change, I have to admit that part of me is probably gonna miss the little troublemakers.after the set up of civil/playable bogeymen with just the entity animal tokens.
kinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?
though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurer
It might be the heat wave getting me as well, but I can't get my head around that question. My guess is that it is supposed to be parsed something like this:
Will the new changes to boogeymen that restrict them to certain evil biomes affect all creatures with the [BOOGEYMAN] token? Or just the generated ones? Will we be able to choose whether to restrict a modded creature, and if so, are there any further moddable options (restricting to only GOOD biomes, only biomes connected to a certain sphere etc.)?
(I'm sorry if I misunderstood a part. Still, even if that wasn't what that question was supposed to be I still want the answer to this one)
Will the new changes to boogeymen that restrict them to certain evil biomes affect all creatures with the [BOOGEYMAN] token? Or just the generated ones? Will we be able to choose whether to restrict a modded creature, and if so, are there any further moddable options (restricting to only GOOD biomes, only biomes connected to a certain sphere etc.)?Wow, awesome to see more pre-mythgen magic. While I'm mostly relieved about the bogeymen change, I have to admit that part of me is probably gonna miss the little troublemakers.after the set up of civil/playable bogeymen with just the entity animal tokens.
kinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?
though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurer
Will the new changes to boogeymen that restrict them to certain evil biomes affect all creatures with the [BOOGEYMAN] token? Or just the generated ones? Will we be able to choose whether to restrict a modded creature, and if so, are there any further moddable options (restricting to only GOOD biomes, only biomes connected to a certain sphere etc.)?Wow, awesome to see more pre-mythgen magic. While I'm mostly relieved about the bogeymen change, I have to admit that part of me is probably gonna miss the little troublemakers.after the set up of civil/playable bogeymen with just the entity animal tokens.
kinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?
though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurer
Primordial evil (our current, naturalised evil for generic evil tag monsters) and spherical evil are seperate concepts in the devlog as i understand it, bogeymen having their raws opened up might need to ignore the fact that fortresses are constantly bathed in light, until such a faculty or day/night and lighting is added, or to explain that its exonerated by the corruptive ground letting them manifest for as long as they like.Will we have more UI warning information and pop'ups for players when embarking upon a corrupted land of what kind of sphere it is? Especially since in theory a fortress close to a tomb could come under range of a corruption spread offsite probably needs to know, if there aren't any noticable effects if reprecussions come up later. Like blight spheres killing crops etc.
- Very much depends how it's implemented @Rumrusher, if a sphere corruption and [Evil] is enough to actually manifest, the biome would be completely optional if supported like that. That's my running assumption on how Toady is going to implement wide swathes of monsters, as unlanded normal animals just don't exist in the world without a biome.
This might have amusing/immersive implications when the creatures in [FORCED_SPHERE:DEATH] (as a example of explicitly needing a sphere instead of primordially existing, and receding when the corruption goes away) start appearing around necromancer towers and mummy crypts rather than explicitly just death-demon towers.
Going by this bit, yes - "And, um, the divinations doing things sometimes. I went to a shrine, rolled a tin icosahedral die and it was a bad roll and I was cursed to be a snowy owl for a week. So I flew up to a nearby rooftop and pondered tangents.".
4. Will our player adventurers be able to use magic divination dice?
There's also the fact that pretty much every form of magic already in the game can be accessed by adventurers (vampirism, lycanthropy, necromancy) so having divination be any different would be kind of arbitrary IMO.
Will certain creatures or entities be able to spread good regions?
Spreading good could get into a philosophical argument about how "good" it is to shoulder out indigenous varieties of plants and animals with good aligned versions as the sphere of influence grows.I personally kinda see good biomes in the same way as the Hallow from Terraria. It's the "good" equivalent, except its still not particularly good (I suppose a better way to describe it would be "fey") - its just as dangerous as the evil regions (atleast in Terraria, in DF, maybe not so much since the good regions are less fleshed out, unless you use mods), what with unicorns freely goring people to death and the like. So spreading good biomes would still not actually be the good thing to do.
Will certain creatures or entities be able to spread good regions?I think that the answer to this is no.
If such a scenario did occur with freedom to write demons on file (at own risk obviously), would we see mainstream integration of tags like [DEMON] on lesser creatures such as fire imps with a bit more context on what defines a demonic leader vs small fry like them by using [POWER] on file, versus other definitions of player created ambient wildlife and intelligent races that may be demonic themselves?
If I understood it well, Dwarf Fortress is currently "three-games-in-one", because each one of them has different mechanisms. For implementing the new villain features, you begun to modify worldgen in first place, after that you'll change some adventure mode things and in last place you'll do the same in fortress mode.
However, I suppose in th future "three games" could melt in one and you could modify anything in worldgen that would make changes directly into adventure and fortress modes (it would be ideal).
So, these are my cuestions:
In what degree are the three games currently connected at the development level?
What elements of the world generation could be reflected in both modes automatically after their modification?
And is it possible to achieve a definitive fusion that could in a way facilitate your work?
1.Is unlocking hidden legends still going to be one of the ways that you expect players to measure progression?
2. Is there ever going to be an option to hide only part of the legends?
Currently, I have to choose between knowing where every secret artifact was stashed, versus not even knowing if my native civ is at war with anyone.
I can see a number of ways to come at this, from hiding any secret legends and those over 100 years old, to just randomly hiding 50% of all legends data, so players have something to unlock, while still being able to somewhat get their bearings.
This brings to mind a question - will non-animal zombies be able to take commands now as well? In order for them to grab and use weapons, armor, etc.
Can we pet the intelligent undead that we raise aswell?
Will random (possibly recruitable) NPCs have mounts/pets now, or is that just for the adventurer party members? Will it be possible to assign/give mounts to your party members?
Can intelligent undead raised by necromancers end up in romantic or friendly relationships with other people around them?
It would be hilarious if a mortal npc attempted to flirt with the undead, only to realize their mistake too late, or the undead got outed because someone tried to grab their hand and realized they're dead cold
is the petting interaction just a bp_bump interaction available to humanoids by default? Or is there something new or special about it, like an emotional response from either the petter or the pettee?
How exactly does a historical figure choose to divorce their spouse in worldgen? Is it based on their current relationship 'status', civilization ethics, general personality, or something else entirely? Are all divorces now 'mutual' in the sense that both parties wish to end the relationship, or is it possible for only one partner to end the marriage?
Quote from: FantasticDorfWill we be able to form relationships with our animals in adventure mode or are they always serventile for the adventurer mode editor?
For mainly concerns about accidentally escalating combat with your animals accidental or otherwise, maybe with unrelated wild animals like i mentioned above with elves welcoming enough to let us get close.Quote from: Eric BlankThis is also relevant to me. I created "familiars" for my wizards, they're intelligent, and the wizards relationship with their familiar is important i.e. it would be a disaster if they got into a no-yield fight. Or if that bug about starting a fight again immediately after agreeing to end one isn't fixed.
On a related note, can intelligent creatures be used as mounts if they have the tags and are, like, amiable towards the person mounting them? I.e. my familiar has a transformation into a mountable form, retaining their intelligence. Will the game balk at my silliness?
Will linux version of df be available on stream?
Quote from: zakarumWith the upcoming "interrogations" to deal with villainous plots, will the player and the AI:
1) Be able to interrogate or "test" (such as a cut to see if it bleeds or even touch to see if its warm) prisoners they suspect of being vampires/undead? In the past you mention the intelligent undead could be captured and if freed, they'd carry on living as normal but they would eventually flee when people start noticing they don't age.
2) If 1 turns out to be true, will civs finally get a way of getting rid of the undead/vampires, such as burning them at the stake? AFAIK the only thing that happens now is that people get suspicious and they flee, but that's it.
3) Since assassinations can happen in player-led forts and since capture and interrogation of agents will be a thing, will we be possible to capture unconscious enemies? Think of an assassination that goes bad: the assassin turns into an invader, the alarm is sound, a military squad would rush and get to the assassin. Right now they would chop them to pieces, but I imagine what we are aiming at is at having him disabled and captured.
4) If 3 is true, will we be able to capture disabled soldiers of invading forces (such as goblins)? Any plans for that (interrogations, etc) if that's the case?
5) Finally, still related to 3, will there be an "alarm" system now? What I mean is, if the assassin succeeds in killing his target but doesn't sneak fast enough, someone discovers the body. The player will be alerted, like when dwarfs are found drained out of blood, but will the dwarfs try and find some authority to tell it, which can then try and find the culprit, or it will all be left for the player?Quote from: PatrikLundellWe already have means to capture enemies (cage traps), so the question [#4] really becomes two:
a) Will we get fortress (and adventurer) means to subdue enemies for capture as an alternative to attack to kill?
Apart from capture for interrogation, such an option might allow you to capture tantrumers for expulsion (or performance troupe enemy civ effective spies for interrogation).
b) Will interrogation of captured enemies have a chance to provide any information that can be acted on?
(Such as e.g. something that provides us with an assassination target or other information that might be used in the conflict). Most of the time I'd expect you won't get anything beyond their civ and the settlement they assembled in, plus the name of their [usually completely expendable] leader of the attack if you'd be able to interrogate them, though. Grunts simply aren't told much.
Will the Steam version come with any sort of in-game tutorial? Just asking since I know that's something a lot of people have wanted out of DF ever since its inception, and a commercial release just seems to me like a good occasion to finally implement one. Maybe you're still undecided either way at this point, which is fine.
1)Will the new aquifer changes means it could be viable not to use constructed walls but instead construct a drainage system of grates and underground tunnels that naturally drain the aquifer somewhere else? Or will the water flow be too much for dwarfs to go through?
2)Will water someday seep through constructed walls, albeit at a slower rate the more walls there are between the aquifer/water source and the walls, making drainage systems for mines an actual necessity?
3)Will different kinds of rocks have different rates of permeability, affecting the speed that water seeps through the aquifer, or it will always be a fixed rate?
Do you have plans to add food preserving to the game?
Can zombies raised by a player necromancer mount on a horse (or zombie horse)?
When a necromancer gets kicked out of a site, can they migrate to a player fort?
I heard that the soundtrack for the steam version is already done. Do you know if we can get to listen to some songs from it before the steam release, looking at how long that's still gonna take, or is that just Kitfox' decision?
Is there any chance players will get access to some of your DF debugging tools? They would probably be very useful for modders. Also kinda related to this, being able to take control of any historic figure in adventure mode would be really nice for roleplaying.
Edit: Just found someone wondering about this on reddit:
Does the aquifer speed change also affect the rate at which they are able to absorb water?
When adding Tavern games, will you be adding board games as a subgenre? I'd love to get some games of Settlers of Catan in on my Dwarven carved bone set.
Question about the "summon" interaction that was mentioned - how will they work exactly? Will the summoned creatures innately spawn with armor/clothes (if intelligent, anyway) and will they be loyal to the caster who summoned them? Would there also be a possible time limit on how much they linger, as well as a limit on how many could be summoned at a time?
"Evil that spread now fades away over many years if there's no new activity in the region. The primordial evil areas don't fade. Certain demons can now spread evil from their towers (or disaster forts), and the properties of the evil areas are related to the spheres of the demon. That is, a blight demon might kill vegetation, while a deformity demon can spread evil creature populations and wormy eyeball grass and so forth. "
With that part of the blog mentioned above, will there be tags related to the ability for demons to spread their evil from their towers/forts? Like a tag that allows/disallows a demons that controls a specific, and custom Dark Fortress using Race from spreading evil?
And with these new "abilities", does that mean theres more to play with for custom secrets?
So what's the deal with these magic divination dice? They certainly sound interesting, but the devlog was a bit vague on the specifics. Maybe you'd care to elaborate a bit on what they are and how they work? Unless it's a surprise, of course.
I forgot, regarding the dice - is their cursing going to be a hardcoded thing or will it be possible to add raw-defined boons/curses from them?
There was also the bit about the undead lieutenants having a push-back ability - is that another new interaction function or a non-syndrome dust attack?
Is new stuff going into the interaction examples folder?
Are only demons able to spread evil from towers, or raws creature be given the power to do so?
Are undead lieutenant powers also raws-able?
Apparently dice can curse you into a different form. What types of creature can you turn into?
Quote from: Rumrusherkinda worried if the modding potential for creatures that use the bogeyman token is now shoved to one region and or one randomly generated creature that needs to show up?
though regional/timed summoning interactions seems like a fun concept where creatures can just pop up out of thin air. really don't know about the bogeyman changes given uhh on one hand it might make playable bogeymen either a straight up raw dump custom creature file or dfhack thing and not entity animal token domestication thing the site just does, but having said region where the 'cackling' summons and kills them be in one area means if someone gets past the hurdle of making them playable in the new update they won't have to fear the night twice as harder than a normal adventurerQuote from: voliolWill the new changes to boogeymen that restrict them to certain evil biomes affect all creatures with the [BOOGEYMAN] token? Or just the generated ones? Will we be able to choose whether to restrict a modded creature, and if so, are there any further moddable options (restricting to only GOOD biomes, only biomes connected to a certain sphere etc.)?
Now that bogeymen are restricted to specific regions, are you going to make it possible for them to show up during fort mode?
Do you plan on making these dice based divinations possible to happen in player forts, or is that pushing too far into the actual magic update for now?
With these changes to demons and goblins civs, will it (soon) be possible for playing as adventurers from goblin civilizations without modding? Or are there some other things that are a priority before that? Cause I'm at least partly wanting to make some adventurers who serve the demons leading the goblins with the new plotting system.
Any ideas what effects on the environment the various demonic spheres will have aside from those listed in the devlog? Anything that would be particularly drastic? Would a demon with the sphere of torture have a regional effect of inflicting constant (but just manageable) pain? Would the domain of a demon of lies whisper falsehoods into the inhabitants' ears? Will misery demons cause depression? Anything like these?
EDIT: A couple more questions:
With the expansion to polymorph-like abilities mentioned in the devlog, are these specifically expansions to transformations? And if so, what sort of changes are you planning on?
This one is more about organized religions and the prevalence of various religions in towns. But is there going to be a changed or added personality facet that influences the zealousness of a historical figure's/post-gen figure's beliefs? Or is it still going to be up to chance that a certain person has a certain level of belief?
Can a particularly poor roll of the dice in attempting divination curse the adventurer permanently, or is it all temporary effects?
What are some of the lucky dice roll blessings that you mention in the Steam update?
is there anything in the future for cavern exploring for adventurers? since all this talk about surface problems remind me that there no incentive to draw folks to the caverns in the recent update.
Will we have more UI warning information and pop'ups for players when embarking upon a corrupted land of what kind of sphere it is? Especially since in theory a fortress close to a tomb could come under range of a corruption spread offsite probably needs to know, if there aren't any noticable effects if reprecussions come up later. Like blight spheres killing crops etc.
This might have amusing/immersive implications when the creatures in [FORCED_SPHERE:DEATH] (as a example of explicitly needing a sphere instead of primordially existing, and receding when the corruption goes away) start appearing around necromancer towers and mummy crypts rather than explicitly just death-demon towers.
1. Will other backgrounds besides hearth person in adventure mode confer a special status in your starting site?
2. How many of the background skills will eventually be usable in adventure mode?
3. Will demon towers exist for all spheres for purposes of region changing or just certain spheres? If only a few which ones.
4. Will our player adventurers be able to use magic divination dice?
Do or can summoned creatures have souls? Is it possible to summon something that becomes a permanent historical figure, talks to people etc without causing crashes?(a problem Ive faced with reanimated intelligent body parts)
Will there be a skill associated with Divination, or maybe some other barrier to entry like needing to get someone to tell you how to do it?
How much effect do the gods themselves have on the divination? Or are their uh... structures still too barebones to do anything there? Are we also going to see stuff like card-reading, crystal gazing and entrails reading(proper necromancy :D), will necromancers in specific do necromancy? Do you have any plans for divinations themselves to actually predict the future, or will they primarily be communications?
For some reason when discussing future-reading magic I always imagined trances, so the dice caught me off guard :D
Oh, oh, oh, can histfigs observe and tell each other about divinations/game outcomes? Because a lot of stories start with an (un)lucky roll of the dice :D Did you manage to have histfigs themselves be capable of rolling dice?
Are there any plans to change how ranged weapons work in adventure mode and in the raws before the big wait? By that I mean, being able to change the firing/reload speed on an individual basis, or being able to aim for specific body parts.
1. What if npc or player steals the divination dice/s from shrine? Will they get cursed if they wont return the dice/s in some days later?
2. Do divination dice's count as artifacts?
What sort of activities prevent evil from fading from an area? Is it only evil activities such as evil clouds/rain? Could I theoretically be in an area as it becomes more good or does my presence there count as activity?
Will certain megabeasts be able to spread evil regions?
Swapping between Hearth person and Peasant is currently the only way to "select" your starting town in Adventurer (it skips to the next random town each time until you get someplace close to where you want to be). Presumably that's no longer functional with the new background profession selection? Will you add a location selection to the new interface? Or do you prefer Adventurers to always start somewhere randomly within their selected civ?
Can demons start plots? Will they? If yes, in what conditions? would they have some special advantage to tempt people and make agents?
Will certain creatures or entities be able to spread good regions?
For the Myth and Magic Update, let's say there is a world where humans are created by a precursor race, and worship them. If another race, say the dwarves, are descendants of these precursor gods, will the humans revere dwarves, or generally be more prone to viewing them as religious figures? If humans are unaware of this mythic connection, but then they become aware of it, will their attitude concerning dwarves change?
About the intelligent undead -
Do they look like corpses / talking zombies? If not does that mean you can only raise someone who recently died? Or does the spell repair their body during resurrection?
Could I go as an adventurer to my ruined/retired fort, resurrect all my favorite dwarves and start a fort of semi-immortal undead?
Will there be sphere created semi/mega-beasts where appropriate emerging with the wildlife (within world costing), or will they always be resorted to world generation?
I was kind of hoping to have a greater muck monster for the evil biomes pop up when the conditions were right, or inversely to the quotation, maybe a Phoenix spontaneously appear over rebirth good areas to add some danger setting things on fire with the halves of a roc and a dragon together.
Will summoned creatures count towards a secret holders ability to build a tower, or is that still just raised dead?
Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?For the first question:
For the second, no idea, but I could see it ending poorly depending on the relevant KILL_ENEMY ethics.Quote from: NahereWill all members of a starting party have to come from the same entity or will multicultural starting parties be possible?You can start your party from all over.
Thanks for the answers Toady!Oh, thanks. Didn't notice that one.Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?For the first question:For the second, no idea, but I could see it ending poorly depending on the relevant KILL_ENEMY ethics.Quote from: NahereWill all members of a starting party have to come from the same entity or will multicultural starting parties be possible?You can start your party from all over.
Does that mean you can get a permanent (?) weapon or pet as a reward from the divination dice rolls, or did you mean you can get a blessing that will make your weapon more effective in combat?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhat are some of the lucky dice roll blessings that you mention in the Steam update?Item? Pet? Healing? Are those new interaction effects?
You can select your home town manually now, and it gives a little summary of the population. If you have multiple party members, then you can start in any one of their home towns.
With the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?I was just about to ask this, too. Would be pretty nice, but probably too difficult to implement right now, especially because it's still kinda a tangent. Not even sure if these Frankenstein experiments will happen outside of worldgen.
On a more serious note, is the time limit for summoned creatures a hardcoded part of the interaction or will that be definable?[/color]In the reply, he said: "If the summon doesn't have a timer, they are just a person/animal/etc., though they don't have cultural links and so forth. "
They probably join civs in the same way animal people, gorlaks and plump helmet people civilize. So your new race would need whatever tag makes that work right now (local_pops_produce_heroes?)
You mentioned that the subjects of magical experiments could join populations. Through this, is it possible to introduce non-procedurally generated races into the world? Say I make Race X, and make an interaction so that a wizard type will focus on creating Race X in large numbers (or at least just create them in general), with the intent of seeding the world with this artificial race. Would that all work smoothly? Also, as of now there is a way to have non-necromancer wizards live in towns. By not giving them a "rais undead" flag, they'll hang out in civilizations and even end up ruling them. Could that also have an impact on the spread of Race X?
5. With proc gen creatures finally roaming the world at smaller-than-titanic sizes, is there going to be any place in game to see the creature size number? [/color] Even picking animal people adventurers is a challenge right now. If I'm a bluejay person coming across a bright green N, which started out as a kea, but is small overall I've already got a pretty difficult time making a threat assessment even before I even know if its size has changed in the transformation.
On a more serious note, is the time limit for summoned creatures a hardcoded part of the interaction or will that be definable?[/color]In the reply, he said: "If the summon doesn't have a timer, they are just a person/animal/etc., though they don't have cultural links and so forth. "
So I guess it might be doable, but who knows.
Yeah, the argument was basically that size absolutely does need to be addressed, in a way that's easy for a player to see quickly, but that it would be better if that weren't an immersion breaking number (the same way most other things like weapon speed, damage resistance of a dorf's neck and such aren't shown even though internally they're all number based calculations).5. With proc gen creatures finally roaming the world at smaller-than-titanic sizes, is there going to be any place in game to see the creature size number? [/color] Even picking animal people adventurers is a challenge right now. If I'm a bluejay person coming across a bright green N, which started out as a kea, but is small overall I've already got a pretty difficult time making a threat assessment even before I even know if its size has changed in the transformation.
This has been suggested. An argument has been made that a size number would break immersion.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=155144.0
Collections of citizens can also be amalgamated into monstrous giants.If he ever finds a way to implement boats that he's happy with, we're going to end up with ascii versions of Necrofex collosi... probably as an unexplained accident.
it'll be wholesome to see them out in the worlds.... I'm not sure that's quite the right word for gargantuan-scale body horror, but I'm not complaining.
QuoteCollections of citizens can also be amalgamated into monstrous giants.If he ever finds a way to implement boats that he's happy with, we're going to end up with ascii versions of Necrofex collosi... probably as an unexplained accident.Quoteit'll be wholesome to see them out in the worlds.... I'm not sure that's quite the right word for gargantuan-scale body horror, but I'm not complaining.
Will magical experiments have different traits depending on what creatures they were made from? For example, a creature made from elfs being at peace with wildlife.
You mentioned that the subjects of magical experiments could join populations. Through this, is it possible to introduce non-procedurally generated races into the world? Say I make Race X, and make an interaction so that a wizard type will focus on creating Race X in large numbers (or at least just create them in general), with the intent of seeding the world with this artificial race. Would that all work smoothly? Also, as of now there is a way to have non-necromancer wizards live in towns. By not giving them a "rais undead" flag, they'll hang out in civilizations and even end up ruling them. Could that also have an impact on the spread of Race X?
Quoteit'll be wholesome to see them out in the worlds.... I'm not sure that's quite the right word for gargantuan-scale body horror, but I'm not complaining.
With the villain update, if a goblin from a goblin civ obtains the title of king over a human or dwarven civ through a coup and intrigue, will that civ then start to act more similarly to a goblin one because of the goblin king's values, which originate from a goblin civ? For example, will a human/dwarven civ that is ruled by a goblin from a goblin civ be more likely to declare wars?
Do war declarations, etc depend on the values of the actual ruler or does diplomacy right now depend on the civ's average values instead?
Actually, facetious as my earlier comment about boats was, given that wagons are considered to be creatures, is it actually possible for the procedural body-horror abominations to incorporate wagons?
Can the ghosts necromancers raise attack people like the murderous ghosts that sometimes appear in forts? Can you physically fight a ghost?
When a fort in worldgen breaches the underworld and falls to demons, do all the demons stay in their new home or is there a chance that some may choose to set out and work on their own schemes?
Quote from: ShonaidwellerSo are these new civs basically goblin civs lead by a released demon? Or actual full-on hell civs packed with demons and a couple of goblins thrown in? Do they create the initial goblins?
They have goblins so that they can behave normally, but they have a pack of 5-20 non-civ-leader underworld demons to make them scarier, and they also have a standard demon leader. All of these creatures are created on the spot, as the underworld is assumed to have unnumbered amounts of such beings currently, though the goblin is faked and indeed it just checks for the EVIL tag on them, the good old EVIL tag. I didn't bother simulating their underworld pops on account of time and the upcoming magic release clarification of these matters.
Will you add Sand to the embark indicators? Dfhack has it, and you already indicate dirt and clay presence.That's a suggestion, not a question, and thus belongs to the suggestion sub forum (and I assume it's already there, somewhere).
Now that monasteries have been added as separate structures from temples, is it safe to assume that "monastery" has been taken out of the procgen pool for temple names?
Now that monasteries have been added as separate structures from temples, is it safe to assume that "monastery" has been taken out of the procgen pool for temple names?
In line with this:
Will we be able to designate monasteries in fortress mode?
Do you plan to change the way dead units are handled, so they don't clog up the list (there's an immigration issue there too)?
I thought there was a separate list for dead units.
Do you plan to change the way dead units are handled, so they don't clog up the list (there's an immigration issue there too)?
Will you add Sand to the embark indicators? Dfhack has it, and you already indicate dirt and clay presence.
Have you considered splitting the Myth & Magic Big Wait into two Large Waits with a Systems Rewrite release in the middle? It seems to me that the systems rewrites that are going to break save compatibility really is a prerequisite for the actual Myth & Magic stuff, but from the exterior it looks like you'd have to restore the current functionality using the redesigned map (etc.) as a starting point regardless, and it doesn't seem that much of that would have to be torn up again for the magic stuff. Doing it in two steps has the advantages of play testing (i.e. bug finding), and reducing a very uncomfortably long period of no releases into two merely quite uncomfortable ones.A year long wait followed by a release in which absolutely nothing has (visibly) changed? Fun for the bug testers maybe. But since they seem to officially exist now with Kitfox mentioning "beta testing", not an awful lot of reason to release to the public.
I know this is very much a suggestion, but I'm quite interested in hearing the reasoning behind the decision, as I'm sure you've considered the various options.
"beta testing"Huh, with paid beta testers or volunteer testers from the community?
No idea. Comment is on this week's Steam update."beta testing"Huh, with paid beta testers or volunteer testers from the community?
Wasn't there the example of a world made out of pieces of cosmic eggshell affecting map mechanics?Yes, but this only means the map logic has to be capable of handling cosmic egg shells and the like, i.e. provide a mechanism for those to be placed on the map (as well as to grow the map around them, when appropriate), and it's quite possible Toady will define them in his usual way, i.e. such that they can be generated procedurally using a set of rules for the outcome. However, this just means the mechanism to place such things has to be present, not the capability of actually generate any of them (and, in fact, the mechanism to place them doesn't have to be present either, only the hooks required to do it).
fakedit, found a reference:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wasn't there the example of a world made out of pieces of cosmic eggshell affecting map mechanics?Yes, but this only means the map logic has to be capable of handling cosmic egg shells and the like, i.e. provide a mechanism for those to be placed on the map (as well as to grow the map around them, when appropriate), and it's quite possible Toady will define them in his usual way, i.e. such that they can be generated procedurally using a set of rules for the outcome. However, this just means the mechanism to place such things has to be present, not the capability of actually generate any of them (and, in fact, the mechanism to place them doesn't have to be present either, only the hooks required to do it).
fakedit, found a reference:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'd expect such a mechanism to be capable of using multiple generated inorganic materials (and possibly organic ones too, and probably ordinary ones as well, such as e.g. gold metal [as well as gold bearing ore]), together with rules for how to place it (a big shell, a cube, shattered pieces of different sizes, etc.). While the resulting map engine may be capable of placing cosmic egg shells on maps, the "current" world wouldn't generate them.
With the myth release, will the prayer system in adventure mode be changed so that when you talk to your deity in a high-magic world, the deity might actually respond (whether by physically talking back or through some sort of "sign")?Yep. This was explictly stated some time ago. Along with different planes which can be planes for each deity.
Could you give more detail on the exact mechanisms behind tantrums/depression/stumbling around and the resulting insanity? (Not talking about strange moods, which are already extensively detailed) Like, what are the exact stress thresholds to reach, successful rolls to pass, relevant personality traits (beyond the already known propensities), effects of mayoral consoling, and so on?Be aware that stress is not working as intended. Intended thresholds and what's actually going on are two very different things probably.
Is there any index of asked/answered questions? Maybe sorted by topic, or at least in an easy UI to skim until you find what you're thinking? The forum's search function isn't great, and the thread is huge now.No. I asked about this before and even thought about putting something together. Toady prefers that, besides the official info on the Dev pages, info here (and elsewhere) is subject to change so shouldn't be laid out officially. Search works OK. Just takes a while (remember it's not just one thread).
Is there any index of asked/answered questions? Maybe sorted by topic, or at least in an easy UI to skim until you find what you're thinking? The forum's search function isn't great, and the thread is huge now.If it seems reasonable for the dorfs to be able to do it, the answer is yes. Broadly Speaking Brother Adams have talked about Civiliation Knowledge and dorfs being able to learn other Civlization sercrets and being able to spread it. This is what in part the books are for.
Anyway, what I want to ask Toady is:
Will we ever be able to make foreign weapons such as pikes, morning stars, lashes etc. in our fortresses? Maybe a way for the group (or maybe just individual dwarves) to learn how to make them somehow?
Will we ever be able to make foreign weapons such as pikes, morning stars, lashes etc. in our fortresses? Maybe a way for the group (or maybe just individual dwarves) to learn how to make them somehow?
What's the current difference between world generation and world activation? As in, what stops with the former?
Will vampires and necromancers automatically be villains, or is villainy something that follows from personality traits?
Will it be possible for, say, hostile religious cults to take a hold or carry out their conspiracies within your fortress with the upcoming release?
You can kinda do this already. You can do mulitple forts and set up roads and it'll be respected on the world map. Though there is a buffer zone between the two fort areas and that problem if I recall Toady has stated would presist to any off site creation.Will it be possible for, say, hostile religious cults to take a hold or carry out their conspiracies within your fortress with the upcoming release?
I'm pretty sure that's the plan for when he get to fort mode villainy after the adventure mode parts he's working on currently. Exactly how much of that will come through remains to be seen though.
Once i had a world with two continents separated by an internal see, a bit like the strait of Gibraltar, and i built a fortress to "connect" with an underwater tunnel, then i abandonned the fortress. I don't think armies or anyone "understood" that they could use the tunnel. (as an adventurer, I could, though ^^ ). So i'm not completely sure you can.
As you increasingly create features that every roguelike would want (a legit combat system, say), can you open-source those particular bits of code?N.....
We will see plots against our adventure mode party ? I mean, we are going to expose a lot of criminals so its logic they want to assasinate us.You should make your questions limegreen so they're easier to see :)
Since a map rewrite is coming as part of the Big Wait, are there any plans to make sites less-hardcoded as a part of it? For example, having player-defined sites and buildings as options for civs other than hillocks, fortresses, etc., or the option to generate player-defined buildings similar to megabeast shrines that can have custom loot or creatures?Given that DF will get procedurally generated races in more or less weird worlds, the map rewrite will have to allow for sites that conform to procedurally generated layout rules. However, whether Toady plans to eventually allow for the procedurally generated rules to be overridden by rules in raws can only be answered by him.
Meph's commercial tileset seems to be coloured by hand rather than using the classic tileset's automatic recoloring.The new tileset is based on the changes that will be made to Dward Fortress in order to allow such tilesets to be used.
i'm hoping to create an extension of the classic tileset using unicode symbols, but i don't have the time or energy to make copies for all the different colourations of each symbol, so: will the new tileset features be compatible with the current release's automatic tile recoloring?
Meph's commercial tileset seems to be coloured by hand rather than using the classic tileset's automatic recoloring.The new tileset is based on the changes that will be made to Dward Fortress in order to allow such tilesets to be used.
i'm hoping to create an extension of the classic tileset using unicode symbols, but i don't have the time or energy to make copies for all the different colourations of each symbol, so: will the new tileset features be compatible with the current release's automatic tile recoloring?
I wouldn't expect any loss of functionality, no. Just the option to override it for graphical sets. Not sure what you mean by "compatible" though.Meph's commercial tileset seems to be coloured by hand rather than using the classic tileset's automatic recoloring.The new tileset is based on the changes that will be made to Dward Fortress in order to allow such tilesets to be used.
i'm hoping to create an extension of the classic tileset using unicode symbols, but i don't have the time or energy to make copies for all the different colourations of each symbol, so: will the new tileset features be compatible with the current release's automatic tile recoloring?
so, no?
As far as I understand, the new functionality will allow for a broader palette of colors, as well as a wider range of characters for character mode (i.e. replacement of the 8 bit code page functionality with something else [I think it's still unknown if it's going to be fixed width or variable width]), plus a bunch of other things. These things mean there are going to be changes, but, as Shonai_Dweller said, while current functionality probably won't be lost, that doesn't mean you won't have to adapt to make "old" functionality work the same in the new framework.I wouldn't expect any loss of functionality, no. Just the option to override it for graphical sets. Not sure what you mean by "compatible" though.Meph's commercial tileset seems to be coloured by hand rather than using the classic tileset's automatic recoloring.The new tileset is based on the changes that will be made to Dward Fortress in order to allow such tilesets to be used.
i'm hoping to create an extension of the classic tileset using unicode symbols, but i don't have the time or energy to make copies for all the different colourations of each symbol, so: will the new tileset features be compatible with the current release's automatic tile recoloring?
so, no?
Not sure if any of these have been asked before so... if they have someone point me to them.1. I believe the extent to which schemes can be carried out in fortress mode will have to await their implementation, i.e. Toady probably has a large list, but will inevitable have to draw a line well before the next year is through (and maybe even this year).
1. Will we be able to set plots in motion during fortress mode. Such as appointing a dwarf to something akin to a spymaster and having him go out on mission to create plots for us. Like assassinating the leader of the elves. Or tricking the humans into going to war with the elves.
2. Will we eventually see even more complex and crazy plots and schemes. Love to see some xanatos gambits show up in some grand evil plots someday. Or even plots learning of and taking advantage of other people's plots for their own gains. (Like some 'hero' finds out about a plot to kidnap the son of the king but instead of stopping it he secretly sets his own plot into motion to allow the kidnapping to succeed only so he may later go 'rescue' the prince and return him to gain respect and political favors.)
3. At this time the only reason anyone wants to learn a secret is because they want to be immortal. Will other the other reasons to learn secrets eventually get their day in the sun; like 'wanting to rule the world', etc.
1. Will there be a chance that new races created by demon or necromancer could have inborn special/magical abilities?Assuming you mean in the upcoming release (rather than in/after the Myth&Magic arc) the answer is most likely no. There's little point in cobbling together something that immediately (in DF time terms) will have to be replaced. For the long term, I expect various special abilities to appear in some generated races.
:
Well, if he's going to be testing out procgen critters in this release anyway, chances of also giving random innate powers a trial are fairly high. I mean, it won't be anything beyond what's already possible (poisonous bites, evil dust, fire breathing Fun, head-bumping power, etc).1. Will there be a chance that new races created by demon or necromancer could have inborn special/magical abilities?Assuming you mean in the upcoming release (rather than in/after the Myth&Magic arc) the answer is most likely no. There's little point in cobbling together something that immediately (in DF time terms) will have to be replaced. For the long term, I expect various special abilities to appear in some generated races.
:
Willbe changed a proper plane of existence?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Couple questions on the map rewrite:There is going to be a multi tile mechanisms/traps arc some time after the Myth&Magic arc. This arc may include boats, unless those are introduced earlier (Toady is grappling with the mutual dependency between boats and economy). Things mentioned in this context are elevators, more elaborate traps using multiple tiles, multi level entrances, etc. One would assume the map rewrite is going to take these future changes into account by allowing for them to be introduced, ideally by having the framework in place ("ideally" in the sense that things often run into complications when you're actually implementing a feature).
1. Will we get multi-level furniture? For example, grand doors that are 2+ z-levels high and multi-block statues, similar to trees?
:
Boats is the moving parts arc. They are literally "moving bits of map" (in the plans so far mentioned). So it will include boats.Couple questions on the map rewrite:There is going to be a multi tile mechanisms/traps arc some time after the Myth&Magic arc. This arc may include boats, unless those are introduced earlier (Toady is grappling with the mutual dependency between boats and economy). Things mentioned in this context are elevators, more elaborate traps using multiple tiles, multi level entrances, etc. One would assume the map rewrite is going to take these future changes into account by allowing for them to be introduced, ideally by having the framework in place ("ideally" in the sense that things often run into complications when you're actually implementing a feature).
1. Will we get multi-level furniture? For example, grand doors that are 2+ z-levels high and multi-block statues, similar to trees?
:
Are player necromancers going to be able to do the corrupting of citizens and other such experiments on things?I suspect one would need a proper necro tower to conduct new species breeding experiments. One for the playable wizard tower arc probably?
Now that we have the ability to retire and unretire a Fortress,Trading artifacts has been a thing since...last version? Maybe a bit before that. Selling them (or giving them away) anyhow. Do you mean buying them from other forts? Can't do that yet (at least I've never seen the merchants turn up with any besides books and I don't think you can request them).
Also, in fort mode, will players eventually be able to trade artifacts, at least between sites within our fort's civilization?
You mentioned one of the dice effects is a syndrome which turns your adventurer into an animal. Could this lead to the ability to make creatures which only reproduce by turning other creatures into more of them in gameplay? Curious since aside from Vamps and Werebeasts I believe that only exists in worldgen right now, and is a very common fantasy trope.
Thanks for the reply. I was primarily thinking of literally trading - i.e., swapping one for one - between forts within our own civilization. But the buying/selling was implied. And I must have forgotten that recent versions now allows selling.Now that we have the ability to retire and unretire a Fortress,Trading artifacts has been a thing since...last version? Maybe a bit before that. Selling them (or giving them away) anyhow. Do you mean buying them from other forts? Can't do that yet (at least I've never seen the merchants turn up with any besides books and I don't think you can request them).
Also, in fort mode, will players eventually be able to trade artifacts, at least between sites within our fort's civilization?
Yellowgreen. Nice. Easy on the eyes.Argh. I see that I've forgotten that, in Toady's example on how to ask questions, we were supposed to ask in limegreen. But I can agree that yellowgreen seems a bit more pleasant.
Yellowgreen. Nice. Easy on the eyes.Argh. I see that I've forgotten that, in Toady's example on how to ask questions, we were supposed to ask in limegreen. But I can agree that yellowgreen seems a bit more pleasant.
Yellowgreen. Nice. Easy on the eyes.Argh. I see that I've forgotten that, in Toady's example on how to ask questions, we were supposed to ask in limegreen. But I can agree that yellowgreen seems a bit more pleasant.
I hope the FDG conference went well Toady. Do you know if there will be a public archive of your keynote presentation? I sort of know what the presentation was about from this Twitter post (https://twitter.com/FDGconf/status/1166764570544705542) by FDG, and I also found this good Twitter live thread (https://twitter.com/noahwf/status/1166761242347786240) by one of the event listeners. It sounded really interesting. Congrats on the Award.
If people started using either colors, this thread may start to look like checkered vomit.youmeanlikethis?
That's tomorrow.I hope the FDG conference went well Toady. Do you know if there will be a public archive of your keynote presentation? I sort of know what the presentation was about from this Twitter post (https://twitter.com/FDGconf/status/1166764570544705542) by FDG, and I also found this good Twitter live thread (https://twitter.com/noahwf/status/1166761242347786240) by one of the event listeners. It sounded really interesting. Congrats on the Award.
Is this the presentation Kitfox said would be up tomorrow (september 2:nd)(link to statement (https://steamcommunity.com/games/975370/announcements/detail/1607143370744128433)), or is it another one?
Also, it seems Tarn's beard is back. I suppose the intricacies of adding villainy called for an extra surge of dwarf power.
Is this the presentation Kitfox said would be up tomorrow (september 2:nd)(link to statement (https://steamcommunity.com/games/975370/announcements/detail/1607143370744128433)), or is it another one?That's tomorrow.
Also, it seems Tarn's beard is back. I suppose the intricacies of adding villainy called for an extra surge of dwarf power.
There's was PAX livestream interview today too Maybe it was a few hours ago?
If people started using either colors, this thread may start to look like checkered vomit.youmeanlikethis?
Yes (devblog)
Are bandit forts, monasteries or mercenary headquarters considered sites that you can raid, loot, raze or conquer?
Why were castles pulled out?
Can the fortress player make alliances with other civs?
How do adventurers turned into animals by bad dice rolls not starve to death?I imagine the eat command isn't disabled? Why would it be?
I imagine the eat command isn't disabled? Why would it be?Do you need hands to access containers? I've never lost both hands and survived so I've never tested it myself.
I imagine the eat command isn't disabled? Why would it be?You can only eat food that is in your inventory or being held by a grasping part. I suppose you could wrestle food out of someones hands with your mouth? You can drink water from streams so you wouldn't die of dehydration at the least.
The mouth wouldnt even be usable for wrestling so, yeah. You'd need to just have it in your inventory, but that would require some kind of change to how transformations work so you don't immediately drop everything you carry when you transformm.I think you would anyway if you transformed into an owl.
How do adventurers turned into animals by bad dice rolls not starve to death?Unless you're turned into a shrew (complete with the reduction in body size) you won't stare to death during a 12 hour transformation.
Actually this gives me one thoughtProbably not. I'd expect a basic attempt to preserve injuries into corresponding injuries in the new form, with things returned to the previous state when transformed back. By "basic" I mean major limb/sensory functionality that can be translated with some kind of ease, but not bother with fiddly details (translating arms and legs into legs or legs + wings would be reasonable, but lost digits translated to wing functionality would be harder). I'd also expect injuries sustained while transformed to be carried back using the same limited logic. Things get tricky when there isn't a suitable easy translation (such as 6 or 8 legs vs 4 limbs, or e.g. antennae vs tongue/nose).
Would cursed adventurers after turning into an animal and back heal their lost limbs like the werecreatures?
12 hours?You're correct, of course. That's what you get for relying on a flaky memory...
There's been one example so far (Toady's). He turned into an owl for a week.
Follow up to my question about home towns then:
Do all party members have to come from the same civ, or do we get complete control over their origins? If that's possible, do they react well to being at war with each other?
Regarding the fail-safe checks for the dice, I take it there is also a check in place to ensure a fail roll doesn't result in the adventurer's death because they turn into a fish and air-drown? ;p
On a more serious note, is the time limit for summoned creatures a hardcoded part of the interaction or will that be definable?
1. Regarding new capturing mechanics, if it makes the cut, are you aiming for it to be broad enough so you can capture other creatures, like wildlife or beast such as dragons? What about titans and megabeasts? If yes how would you handle gigantic beasts or megabeasts such as Bronze Colossi?
2. Will the new capturing mechanics and interrogation system spell an end for the indestructible chains/cages that current exist? Will there be prison breaks with the interrogation part of this update or is that far ahead?
3. Will creatures with magical powers (demons, necromancers) use their powers to further their plots? The classic here would be doing a deal with the devil in exchange for something. But a necromancer could raise an intelligent dead to manipulate/infiltrate somewhere.
With the changes to evil regions, is it now easier to tell if an evil region is a reanimator region or can that still only be found out by making a fort and checking if your butchering refuse comes back to life?
Does <quote from last Fotf> mean you can get a permanent (?) weapon or pet as a reward from the divination dice rolls, or did you mean you can get a blessing that will make your weapon more effective in combat?
Is there currently any sort of limitation in place for what percentage of the population necromancers/demons will take to experiment on? I could see quite a few settlements getting pretty weird pretty quickly if the bad guy is just allowed to transform everyone (which would be fun, but might also take away from immersion).
Are the experiment/giant amalgamation type creatures bright red Ñs, the color reserved for "constructed creatures" as stated in that old night creature DF talk? Are intelligent undead bright cyan Ñs?
Quote from: EternalCaveDragonWith the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?Quote from: scourge728Are player necromancers going to be able to do the corrupting of citizens and other such experiments on things?Quote from: GeorgeChickensWill the player be able to perform the twisted necromancer experiments, or is it worldgen only?
Do you know if the updated menus of the Steam release will include a revamp of the labor interface? Or will the Steam menus simply look prettier, but function the same?
You mentioned earlier that stress & memory fixes will most likely happen before The Big Wait, but can you say if you'll be able to look at those before Steam release?
Are these summonable "larger, nightmarish beings" basically the typical, random hell dwelling demons, or are they special in some specific way?
1. Some demons know and intone the names of all things. Do they automatically know the names of all ghosts? Can they identify secret agents any better than average?
2. Is a dead adventurer raised as an intelligent undead after game over playable again? What if someone other than another of your adventurers is the one that raised them? Can they potentially be ghosts, and could you play them as ghosts?
3. What do ghosts do mechanically when it comes to moving from place to place? Are they flying? Do they pass through walls like a late game Larn character? Do the different kinds of ghosts that appear in fort mode now affect the abilities these new ghosts have? Does that mean some can pick up items, and how will their movement effect such a thing?
4. What do summoned beings know if they're intelligent? Are they blank arena mode style vessels? If you summon a mountable animal, can you ride it? If you summon a creature that knows and intones the names of all things can it banish ghosts?
5. With proc gen creatures finally roaming the world at smaller-than-titanic sizes, is there going to be any place in game to see the creature size number? Even picking animal people adventurers is a challenge right now. If I'm a bluejay person coming across a bright green N, which started out as a kea, but is small overall I've already got a pretty difficult time making a threat assessment even before I even know if its size has changed in the transformation.
6. Most importantly, can you pet the large nightmarish beings, and once you get to having feelings about being pet, what are they gonna think about that?
Quote from: squamousYou mentioned that the subjects of magical experiments could join populations. Through this, is it possible to introduce non-procedurally generated races into the world? Say I make Race X, and make an interaction so that a wizard type will focus on creating Race X in large numbers (or at least just create them in general), with the intent of seeding the world with this artificial race. Would that all work smoothly? Also, as of now there is a way to have non-necromancer wizards live in towns. By not giving them a "rais undead" flag, they'll hang out in civilizations and even end up ruling them. Could that also have an impact on the spread of Race X?Quote from: PillboAlong those lines: Could a necromancer hide in plain sight in a civ by only raising intelligent undead minions? If the humans or whatever can't recognize rotting flesh or gaping wounds in a person running around a necromancer with intelligent undead minions would look more like an organized crime ring, gang, or if they are clever enough a performance troup, guild, or cult.
Will we see our lands transformed into evil lands if an evil force installs itself near our fortress ? Will this process work after worldgen ?
How many souls do the amalgamated giants have? Do the amalgamations contain all the souls of the victims used, or are they considered to have died?
Will magical experiments have different traits depending on what creatures they were made from? For example, a creature made from elfs being at peace with wildlife.
EDIT: A better example would be a creature made from dwarves needing alcohol.
Are aquatic megabeasts planned for some point? I imagine they are an addition for when boats happen, but it would be cool to have Kraken or monstrous whales drag themselves out of the sea to attack a coastal fort, or lurking in the shallows to ambush.
Are dwarves fearful of these magical experiments/roughly average to the effect of fighting the undead, or will they cut them down with as much regard to their attitude to battle as wildlife or other sentients?
Experiment doesn't infer that they're actually un-alive, just possibly dorf-centipeded to send alcohol into one dwarf's stomachs when they inexplicably somehow consume a flagon or barrel of booze, then through multiple bodies, then a tantrum throwing sober dwarf sown in there at the end somewhere unable to drink the consumed alcohol who punches the dwarf head at the top with whatever control they have of one arm of the body.
Erm less satirically and more practically they might just get ressurected by a necro or arrive already undead with them if i understand correctly without any further elaboration.
Can 'magical experiments' be revived by necromancer zombie summoning? That sounds messy potentially to have a amalgamated monster of many limbs split off into arm-zombies. Also quite !!fun!!
With the villain update, if a goblin from a goblin civ obtains the title of king over a human or dwarven civ through a coup and intrigue, will that civ then start to act more similarly to a goblin one because of the goblin king's values, which originate from a goblin civ? For example, will a human/dwarven civ that is ruled by a goblin from a goblin civ be more likely to declare wars?
Do war declarations, etc depend on the values of the actual ruler or does diplomacy right now depend on the civ's average values instead?
Actually, facetious as my earlier comment about boats was, given that wagons are considered to be creatures, is it actually possible for the procedural body-horror abominations to incorporate wagons?
Can the ghosts necromancers raise attack people like the murderous ghosts that sometimes appear in forts? Can you physically fight a ghost?
When a fort in worldgen breaches the underworld and falls to demons, do all the demons stay in their new home or is there a chance that some may choose to set out and work on their own schemes?
Have you seen the "Dwaven Language Codifier" here ? And if yes, what are your thoughts about it ?
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173289.0)
Will you add Sand to the embark indicators? Dfhack has it, and you already indicate dirt and clay presence.
Quote from: PlumpHelmetManNow that monasteries have been added as separate structures from temples, is it safe to assume that "monastery" has been taken out of the procgen pool for temple names?Quote from: CaptainArchmageWill we be able to designate monasteries in fortress mode?
Do you plan to change the way dead units are handled, so they don't clog up the list (there's an immigration issue there too)?
Clarification: I am referring to Nonsignificant creatures clogging up the dead units list, i.e. having to scroll past all those puppies :-(.
Do existing changes also include the animated furniture? Can you as a necromancer, say, stitch new frankentrocities around a schist cabinet?
When you say you can create new monsters from amalgamating other creatures as a necromancer, can we do that in adventure mode and can we "invent" new creatures or are those just generated from the start?
I look forward to having a ball of various arms rampaging around a castle. Not so much one rampaging around my lever room.
Will the divination games be generated at the beginning of the world, or could new ones appear over time?
Have you considered splitting the Myth & Magic Big Wait into two Large Waits with a Systems Rewrite release in the middle? It seems to me that the systems rewrites that are going to break save compatibility really is a prerequisite for the actual Myth & Magic stuff, but from the exterior it looks like you'd have to restore the current functionality using the redesigned map (etc.) as a starting point regardless, and it doesn't seem that much of that would have to be torn up again for the magic stuff. Doing it in two steps has the advantages of play testing (i.e. bug finding), and reducing a very uncomfortably long period of no releases into two merely quite uncomfortable ones.
I know this is very much a suggestion, but I'm quite interested in hearing the reasoning behind the decision, as I'm sure you've considered the various options.
Could you give more detail on the exact mechanisms behind tantrums/depression/stumbling around and the resulting insanity? (Not talking about strange moods, which are already extensively detailed) Like, what are the exact stress thresholds to reach, successful rolls to pass, relevant personality traits (beyond the already known propensities), effects of mayoral consoling, and so on?
With the myth release, will the prayer system in adventure mode be changed so that when you talk to your deity in a high-magic world, the deity might actually respond (whether by physically talking back or through some sort of "sign")?
Will we ever be able to make foreign weapons such as pikes, morning stars, lashes etc. in our fortresses? Maybe a way for the group (or maybe just individual dwarves) to learn how to make them somehow?
What's the current difference between world generation and world activation? As in, what stops with the former?
Will vampires and necromancers automatically be villains, or is villainy something that follows from personality traits?
Is it going to be possible to send out your dwarves to build tunnels and roads (off the map), or will that have to wait until after the map rework?
What were the parameters for generating the dwarven language (i.e. seed)? Sorry to ask but it would kind of help to be able to err... "fill in" certain... missing words.
Will it be possible for, say, hostile religious cults to take a hold or carry out their conspiracies within your fortress with the upcoming release?
I assume when you get there, Fortress Mode will also be getting some kind of villain knowledge screen, right? Will it be possible for visitors to share their knowledge with the Fortress, somewhat like the info the Outpost liasion gives you? I assume there aren't any other detectives in the world for now, but it'd make sense to be able to get at a retired adventurer's knowledge and perhaps that of previous fortress inhabitants too?
As you increasingly create features that every roguelike would want (a legit combat system, say), can you open-source those particular bits of code?
We will see plots against our adventure mode party ? I mean, we are going to expose a lot of criminals so its logic they want to assasinate us.
Since a map rewrite is coming as part of the Big Wait, are there any plans to make sites less-hardcoded as a part of it? For example, having player-defined sites and buildings as options for civs other than hillocks, fortresses, etc., or the option to generate player-defined buildings similar to megabeast shrines that can have custom loot or creatures?
Meph's commercial tileset seems to be coloured by hand rather than using the classic tileset's automatic recoloring.
i'm hoping to create an extension of the classic tileset using unicode symbols, but i don't have the time or energy to make copies for all the different colourations of each symbol, so: will the new tileset features be compatible with the current release's automatic tile recoloring?
1. Will we be able to set plots in motion during fortress mode. Such as appointing a dwarf to something akin to a spymaster and having him go out on mission to create plots for us. Like assassinating the leader of the elves. Or tricking the humans into going to war with the elves.
2. Will we eventually see even more complex and crazy plots and schemes. Love to see some xanatos gambits show up in some grand evil plots someday. Or even plots learning of and taking advantage of other people's plots for their own gains. (Like some 'hero' finds out about a plot to kidnap the son of the king but instead of stopping it he secretly sets his own plot into motion to allow the kidnapping to succeed only so he may later go 'rescue' the prince and return him to gain respect and political favors.)
3. At this time the only reason anyone wants to learn a secret is because they want to be immortal. Will other the other reasons to learn secrets eventually get their day in the sun; like 'wanting to rule the world', etc.
1. Will there be a chance that new races created by demon or necromancer could have inborn special/magical abilities?
2. Will more legit organizations such as site governments, merchant companies and mercenary companies also appear in the organization tab in the intrigue menu?
3. If the player joined a group present in the organization menu would they appear on the graphic?(Currently it is possible to join bandits and criminal groups at least at an entry level).
4. Will special buildings like guild halls also appear in generated human settlements?
5. Will any of the new special buildings appear in elven settlements?(Unlikely I know but I thought I'd ask.)
With the Improved Sieges subfeature, will the skills, attributes, and facets of histfig siege leaders affect the behavior of the invading forces?
Elaboration:
So a leader with high Military_tactics will steer their troops around and under marksdwarf fortifications, coordinate and synchronize assaults, manage fighting retreats, and judiciously use sapping/building, while a leader with poor Organizer will have their forces show up piecemeal lacking provisions and equipment? Perhaps a general with high leader and social skills sends their soldiers into battle fed and motivated, rallies panicking squads, and marches troops though narrow passages in formation, while a incompetent moron with high stress vulnerability will delay in extricating their troops from the ballista battery, call a retreat that collapses into a rout, lose half the army to axedwarves while re-enacting Three Stooges routines in the stairwell, take for granted the main gate remaining open, and die alongside the last of their soldiers in the trade depot as the siege engines finally arrive? Have a system where geniuses can make huge mistakes (Napoleonic invasion of Russia) and mediocre generals can have stunning successes? (Henry V of Agincourt fame)
Couple questions on the map rewrite:
1. Will we get multi-level furniture? For example, grand doors that are 2+ z-levels high and multi-block statues, similar to trees?
2. Willbe changed a proper plane of existence?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Will there be "semi-public" organizations? For example, a kingdoms counter-espionage department, which might be publicly known to exist, and might have some members who exist to communicate with people not in the organization, but many of the members are unknown to people not in the organization.
Now that we have the ability to retire and unretire a Fortress, will we eventually gain the ability to pick and choose a selection of dwarves, animals, resources, weapons and tools from our current fort in order to chain-embark to go found a new site somewhere else? Will we eventually be able to bring certain animals on embark from our breeding programs that have been painstakingly bred to be, e.g., larger or taller than average or with certain color traits? Could we, one day, even embark with an artifact from our old fort?
Also, in fort mode, will players eventually be able to trade artifacts, at least between sites within our fort's civilization?
You mentioned one of the dice effects is a syndrome which turns your adventurer into an animal. Could this lead to the ability to make creatures which only reproduce by turning other creatures into more of them in gameplay? Curious since aside from Vamps and Werebeasts I believe that only exists in worldgen right now, and is a very common fantasy trope.
These new horrific necromancer/demon creations, are they likely to be one of the things modified by the tone meter you mentioned for future, myth and magic versions of the game? If so, I'm increasingly excited to see what that meter is like turned all the way up in a few years.
Are vampire/werebeast turning (not by curse) and night troll kidnappings considered "villain plans" that will be properly implemented by these beastly villains post-worldgen? Or have you advanced past the stage of adding villain plans, and they were not added when you did?
I hope the FDG conference went well Toady. Do you know if there will be a public archive of your keynote presentation?
As of right now, rumors get cluttered up with "so and so was attacked by small animals" and the histories are full of "so and so attacked so and so, though the latter escaped unharmed." In the coming releases, will dishonest assassins be bribeable, and will they return with the rumor that they attacked their target, but they got away? I know lies would be extra code, but these rumors are already spreadable.
Also,
To what extent are the endless conversation topics about being attacked by animals that immediately run away used? Will telling these stories to the elves make them mad, under the hood somewhere? Do companions use these attacks to determine if you're taking them towards glory or death effectively enough? And are any filters planned before the big wait?
With all these new fancy intrigue mechanics, do you reckon that adding in proper secret societies won't take too much effort down the road? As I see it now, the main thing that's missing is having them have motivations beyond generically amassing power, and letting them form a more formal hierarchy as a direct evolution of the current agent networks and such.
Will warehouses/trading companies, mercenary companies, guilds and new religions will be relevant in fortress mode (in the form of visitors, religions getting founded at your fort, merchants establishing trading posts, building shrines, etc.)?
Are bandit forts, monasteries or mercenary headquarters considered sites that you can raid, loot, raze or conquer?
Why were castles pulled out?
Can the fortress player make alliances with other civs?
Can intelligent undead arrive as migrants or visitors?
How do adventurers turned into animals by bad dice rolls not starve to death?
Would cursed adventurers after turning into an animal and back heal their lost limbs like the werecreatures?
I do not recall how poltergeists currently work when picking up items in fort mode... do they items go through walls or does it change their path model? Don't remember.
Thanks for the answers Toady! Got a bit of a question that refers back to a devlog, but one I felt needed asking after remembering the details.
Will the sphere of a secret affect the type of area it spreads, if it spreads influence over the surroundings at all? Like how necromancer towers spread reanimating (I would assume) evil areas, would a secret with the blight sphere kill vegetation, and deformity evil creature populations like the described freed demon spheres? Or is the reanimating region spread part of some specific feature of the necromancer code itself?
I do not recall how poltergeists currently work when picking up items in fort mode... do they items go through walls or does it change their path model? Don't remember.
As of 0.34.something when I last had a ghost carrying stuff, they had to use proper pathing when carrying items.
Speaking of which, the context for that was a ghost who was continuing to perform his Animal Trainer duties from beyond the grave: he was carrying meat to tame a caged creature. Do you intend to preserve/formalize the previously-unintentional Helpful Ghost behaviors in fort mode, or are those on the chopping block?
Ha ha, no, we were kind and did not give ghostly agents the instadeath powers. Because indeed, you cannot physically fight them - our intent was to make them actually different from the others. You need to use their identities to control/banish them. This will likely change as we get more stuff in later, but we wanted to toy around with it now.
Quote from: DoorkeeperI hope the FDG conference went well Toady. Do you know if there will be a public archive of your keynote presentation?
We tried to have somebody record it last second, but the lighting and audio just didn't work out. I'll probably put up my slides in the coming days.
When there are more types of secrets and magic, will there be more ways to gain magic abilties or will it mostly come from reading slabs/books?The Myth&Magic arc should introduce new ways to gain magic abilities. At the least divine/infernal connections, but probably a whole set of new ways eventually (research, study as an apprentice, innate ability, sphere influence/effect [with some magic dependent on spheres, so if the sphere goes, so does the magic, even if the learning process is not a sphere effect itself {I think the latest Threetoe story has magic that disappeared when the spheres were rearranged in the past}]). Introducing more avenues before that arc would probably be a waste of efforts, as it would probably have to be re-implemented to fit in with Myth&Magic.
I knew it wouldn't be until mythgen. Maybe I should rephrase my question to what are some of the possible secret gaining avenues.
Can you tell us any details about what the Steam tutorial will look like? Are you going to cover specific key/menu navigation (build vs. designate), or more general concepts like 'how to farm'?I imagine planning hasn't gotten much further than this interview about it.
Will it be possible for adventurers or armies to travel across mountains in the near future? Right now they can isolate huge portions of the map from each other, so I was wondering how it would affect things like criminal conspiracies and new traveling agents like exiled religions/player-sent minions. Will they be able to move across the world or just their local region?
It would be nice to have nurseries just not for war babies but children in general. Combine with burrows to make "safety zones" for them to retreat to during battles or sieges a la Helm's Deep.
But yes as iconic as the Battle-Bred Babies of DF is I really think the game could use a nursery function. Both for dwarves to temporarily leave their babies at (in case of violence) and for nobles to be assholes about child rearing with (lol take care of my own offspring? You must be joking).
Then again I would also give children an inclination to want to hang around their parents and make them able to learn their parents' professional skills by proxy from being present while the parent work. Maybe have them limited to some low skill level but then make their parents work a little faster by having them around (simulating them helping in the workshop).
I remember asking a bit on this sometime last year or so, the notion was that mountains being no-go zones are kind of a placeholder at the moment, as you'll notice that mountain biomes often have quite a lot of foraging options, and are nowhere near insurmountable as the terrain shifts only very mildly, and the biomes don't span far enough distances in the current iteration to make even adventure-mode scale travel unable to sustain off their own pack-food.Will it be possible for adventurers or armies to travel across mountains in the near future? Right now they can isolate huge portions of the map from each other, so I was wondering how it would affect things like criminal conspiracies and new traveling agents like exiled religions/player-sent minions. Will they be able to move across the world or just their local region?
I have no idea how palatable the solutions could be but you could fly (innately, or with a mount, to which flying raids might be a big deal versus players who isolate themselves on islands but still draw the jealous eyes of the world.) or you could go through the mountain in a subterreanean way.
Depends how Toady will seek to address this but the terrain re-write might make the pathing more preferable and completely suspend mountains as a no go zone. Alternatively people might be able to start fortresses below ground in the future where being inside the depths of a mountain could be preferable (maybe not in the mouth or lava of a volcano by accident)
Non-player adventurers in adventurer mode easily scale mountains though. I had this problem the other day when I was stalking some performers traveling to the big city, and I had to exit fast travel as soon as the mountains appeared in our path, not to lose them by going around.I remember asking a bit on this sometime last year or so, the notion was that mountains being no-go zones are kind of a placeholder at the moment, as you'll notice that mountain biomes often have quite a lot of foraging options, and are nowhere near insurmountable as the terrain shifts only very mildly, and the biomes don't span far enough distances in the current iteration to make even adventure-mode scale travel unable to sustain off their own pack-food.Will it be possible for adventurers or armies to travel across mountains in the near future? Right now they can isolate huge portions of the map from each other, so I was wondering how it would affect things like criminal conspiracies and new traveling agents like exiled religions/player-sent minions. Will they be able to move across the world or just their local region?
I have no idea how palatable the solutions could be but you could fly (innately, or with a mount, to which flying raids might be a big deal versus players who isolate themselves on islands but still draw the jealous eyes of the world.) or you could go through the mountain in a subterreanean way.
Depends how Toady will seek to address this but the terrain re-write might make the pathing more preferable and completely suspend mountains as a no go zone. Alternatively people might be able to start fortresses below ground in the future where being inside the depths of a mountain could be preferable (maybe not in the mouth or lava of a volcano by accident)
Is there any plans to implement dwarven nurseries, to potentially provide "proper" childcare for dwarves, and potentially lower the number of warbabies? Related quote and suggestion from Scriver and others below.It would be nice to have nurseries just not for war babies but children in general. Combine with burrows to make "safety zones" for them to retreat to during battles or sieges a la Helm's Deep.
But yes as iconic as the Battle-Bred Babies of DF is I really think the game could use a nursery function. Both for dwarves to temporarily leave their babies at (in case of violence) and for nobles to be assholes about child rearing with (lol take care of my own offspring? You must be joking).
Then again I would also give children an inclination to want to hang around their parents and make them able to learn their parents' professional skills by proxy from being present while the parent work. Maybe have them limited to some low skill level but then make their parents work a little faster by having them around (simulating them helping in the workshop).
How far away is the villain system from producing a stereotypical fantasy thieves guild? In my mind it can be boiled down to a criminal organisation that might not actively invent or undertake plots but who's permission (and a tax) is required before professional criminal activity is undertaken in their sphere of influence. It may or may not have some sort of tacit agreement with a legitimate government. Is a thieves guild something you'd like to see come up in certain gens?Rather far, I would guess. You'd really need an economy for a thieves guild to have a place (although it obviously doesn't stop companies, embezzling, and other economic activities to happen in an economic vacuum with the Villains arc). It also would benefit from a foundation of Law & Customs that might give them a place in the society and some explanation for why they exists.
Is there any plans to implement dwarven nurseries, to potentially provide "proper" childcare for dwarves, and potentially lower the number of warbabies? Related quote and suggestion from Scriver and others below.It would be nice to have nurseries just not for war babies but children in general. Combine with burrows to make "safety zones" for them to retreat to during battles or sieges a la Helm's Deep.
But yes as iconic as the Battle-Bred Babies of DF is I really think the game could use a nursery function. Both for dwarves to temporarily leave their babies at (in case of violence) and for nobles to be assholes about child rearing with (lol take care of my own offspring? You must be joking).
Then again I would also give children an inclination to want to hang around their parents and make them able to learn their parents' professional skills by proxy from being present while the parent work. Maybe have them limited to some low skill level but then make their parents work a little faster by having them around (simulating them helping in the workshop).
I think there's a public mandate for it given how often it turns up in suggestions, but not a declared devlog one given the direction towards the big goals in the Magic Arc and how much of a detour it could end up being. I personally would support the 'idea' of a player set safe area but i think given there's been no hint of a devlog for a while on the matter it would be best consigned to the suggestions forum for elaborations.
Committing to doing nursuries/etc. might compel players to ask for more depth regarding children in their interim period of obscure uselessness before adulthood, like academic public/private tutoring to broaden minds etc or to touch on the subjects of childhood and adolescence more, but this is a pitfall i feel that Toady could get well sunk into given the normal amout of detail with everything connected that DF strives to achieve.Rushing to add everything now might leave post-magic arc when everything is in place to be built upon rather than pulled out quickly and started again
- Also the horrible daycare experiment implications of player's Spartan like approaches to childcare, in the hopes animals or child snatchers would take away nursery babies stationed outside, babies aren't even born with knives to defend themselves anymore :P
Personally I think nurseries, like schools, are from a much more modern period than this game represents (however vaguely). Doesn't stop the player making their own design..
How far away is the villain system from producing a stereotypical fantasy thieves guild? In my mind it can be boiled down to a criminal organisation that might not actively invent or undertake plots but who's permission (and a tax) is required before professional criminal activity is undertaken in their sphere of influence. It may or may not have some sort of tacit agreement with a legitimate government. Is a thieves guild something you'd like to see come up in certain gens?Rather far, I would guess. You'd really need an economy for a thieves guild to have a place (although it obviously doesn't stop companies, embezzling, and other economic activities to happen in an economic vacuum with the Villains arc). It also would benefit from a foundation of Law & Customs that might give them a place in the society and some explanation for why they exists.
We've been cleaning up the villainous network issues I mentioned in my last news post. In order to connect the networks more fully, we mostly focused on criminal organizations operating in cities. They can now compete with each other, subordinate each other and skim off of each other's profits, and fully fuse into single larger gangs. They can also establish new branches in other cities to give the networks some additional geographic spread, which should help to make investigations more interesting.
With those new additions as a backdrop, we allowed position-holding villains (who might be, for instance, nobles, priests, or bookkeepers) to contact the criminal organizations through intermediaries. Once in contact, they can contract out their assassination, sabotage, theft and kidnapping plots. This creates additional links for our investigations, and also opens up opportunities for the criminal leaders to exploit the link the other way, through blackmail and so forth.
Personally I think nurseries, like schools, are from a much more modern period than this game represents (however vaguely). Doesn't stop the player making their own design..
The practices of tutoring the nobility by assigning a guardian to be mentored by as well as the obvious pressure to continue the family trade with passed on traditions and methods are common for the time period even before any kind of formal organizational education (and indeed even into times of antiquity with a lot more philosophic studentship/societies for young adults) though it might be a bit obtuse to include a entire breadth for a university (though they definitely did exist for a select few as soon as 1088 in Bologna, Italy a full 356 years old by 1444 as the earliest European university.)
Just as you say rightly, for the period sitting down both male and female students in a formal classroom irregardless of social status for common public education is far fetched, but in the same breadth you can say that dwarves are ahistorical visionaries with their ideas that just live by circumstance and setting in the present period they reside.
5. How adversarial can dorfs get now? If that migrant was the spy all along, when they become incriminated, will they see no reason to keep their act and start fighting everyone?
1. Can necromancers/demons utilize mega beasts in their experimentation? For example making a new creature using parts of a dragon and a human?
2. Will new races created by necromancers have some abilities of the creatures they were created from? Some examples would be a carnivorous diet or the ability to fly.
3. What do necromancers/demons do with new races they create assuming they don't escape? I'd assume they wouldn't just kill a creation they spent so long working on.
4. If a player playing as a race created by a necromancer/demon visit's that necromancer/demon's base would they still be hostile to that player even though the player is of a race they created?
1. Can necromancers/demons utilize mega beasts in their experimentation? For example making a new creature using parts of a dragon and a human?
2. Will new races created by necromancers have some abilities of the creatures they were created from? Some examples would be a carnivorous diet or the ability to fly.
3. What do necromancers/demons do with new races they create assuming they don't escape? I'd assume they wouldn't just kill a creation they spent so long working on.
4. If a player playing as a race created by a necromancer/demon visit's that necromancer/demon's base would they still be hostile to that player even though the player is of a race they created?
1. Will there be any form of beta access keys for the steam release?As far as I understand it beta testing for the Premium release is intended to be performed as a closed testing organized by Kitfox. However, it's unclear (at least to me) whether that procedure will be followed for every update (which would alter the way things have been done up until now significantly), or whether there will be a beta branch for early adopters of new versions before they stabilize and can be brought over to the general branch. Another unclear issue is how to handle existing fortresses with new releases, as auto updates might not be the best choice for everyone.
Quote from: ButtonSpeaking of which, the context for that was a ghost who was continuing to perform his Animal Trainer duties from beyond the grave: he was carrying meat to tame a caged creature. Do you intend to preserve/formalize the previously-unintentional Helpful Ghost behaviors in fort mode, or are those on the chopping block?Quote from: FantasticDorfGhosts are usually satisfied by making a slab for them, will we have flexibile choices for how to handle semi-scripted events like "please banish the ghost from my house" to do what is expected normally, or twist the quest to ask and fufill what the ghost wants in order to let them rest for good?
I know this is pretty far into the mythical and magical future, but you bringing up soul mechanics just filled me with such curiosity I have to ask, even if the answers will probably be pretty lightweight. It's pretty cool just to see your vague plans for the future either way.
Do you think certain generated Underworlds will be filled with the ghost/spirits/bodies of those who end up dying and going there, as some Mythgen slides mentioned certain Dwarves going to the "wild world" upon death with the same text color as other similarly ominous sounding places in other slides?
For that matter, what do you hope the variance of generated realms to be? Could there be realms which are essentially massive buildings when it comes to environment, ala some interpretations of Hell? Likewise, could some unpleasant dimensions like the Underworld be focused on darkness or cold rather than heat and flame like the current underworld in your vision? I'm curious, since across fantasy and especially real world mythology, evil planes can be so unique and varied - even different interpretations of Christian cosmology say Hell is hot, dark, bloody, etc.
Since reincarnation also seems to be a thing in Mythgen, would a sort of spiritual "history" be possible? Like where a Dorf or other entity's past lives are chronicled historically, I think it could be pretty neat. Possibly something that could be tied into divining-type magic whenever worlds generate with it.
Finally, will high-fantasy worlds where races are unlucky enough to be generated with mortal souls have a greater desire for immortality among individuals? Or at least more of their personalities generating with a fear of death?
Will the sphere of a secret affect the type of area it spreads, if it spreads influence over the surroundings at all? Like how necromancer towers spread reanimating (I would assume) evil areas, would a secret with the blight sphere kill vegetation, and deformity evil creature populations like the described freed demon spheres? Or is the reanimating region spread part of some specific feature of the necromancer code itself?
Thanks Toady, the slides [for the FDG talk] would be appreciated.
When there are more types of secrets, what will be the different ways of learning them?
Can you tell us any details about what the Steam tutorial will look like? Are you going to cover specific key/menu navigation (build vs. designate), or more general concepts like 'how to farm'?
1. How will food management work for adventuring parties. If we're able to control them all, will we need to take their food and water supplies into account? Will they get food by themselves or will we need to manually control them to feed them/put food in their inventory?
2. Will it be possible for adventurers or armies to travel across mountains in the near future? Right now they can isolate huge portions of the map from each other, so I was wondering how it would affect things like criminal conspiracies and new traveling agents like exiled religions/player-sent minions. Will they be able to move across the world or just their local region?
3. What exactly are the things that influence whether an animal man population will join a civilization? So far I am fairly sure a high respect for nature influences it but everything else is guesswork.
4. You mentioned new interactions like creating fog. Will there be any interactions that allow you to heal missing limbs besides the current werebeast method?
About adventurer party sizes, in particular: Is the current limit of 6 hardcoded, or planned to be user-adjustable? (I speak with the viewpoint of one who has designs on a proper "Thorin & Company"-style setup, post mythgen.)
Is there any plans to implement dwarven nurseries, to potentially provide "proper" childcare for dwarves, and potentially lower the number of warbabies? Related quote and suggestion from Scriver and others below.
How far away is the villain system from producing a stereotypical fantasy thieves guild? In my mind it can be boiled down to a criminal organisation that might not actively invent or undertake plots but who's permission (and a tax) is required before professional criminal activity is undertaken in their sphere of influence. It may or may not have some sort of tacit agreement with a legitimate government. Is a thieves guild something you'd like to see come up in certain gens?
You've filled up the world with plotting villains, zombie apocalypses and monasteries while updating the interface with org charts to help people to find their way around while giving them pets, companions and strategic combat to keep them distracted. Do you think Adventure Mode is now close to Fortress Mode's level of "being somewhat like an actual game" now? Relatively speaking of course, I know there's tons more to add which will enhance both modes.
(I know Adventurer has it's "better than fortress mode" fans, and I'm one of them sometimes, this is just about Toady's opinion, based on his past comments on the state of Adventurer compared with Fortress).
I have some questions about the incoming updates to fortress mode. Earlier this year it was mentioned that the player could notice plotting if they saw that two or more dwarves spent too much of their time talking to each other. Assuming this is how plotting is going to be implemented:
1. Will seeking social interaction only extend to plotting dwarves or are other dwarves going to gain this ability in this update?
2. Is plotting/interacting socially going to take only dwarven idle-time or is work-time going to be affected by this?
3. Will visitors be included in plotting? (i.e. a migrant arived on the fort, and after a year or so a vilanous traveler that happened to know them came to ask for a favor and leave, or vice versa; Or even someone up the chain maintaning contact with an agent in your fort for interciv plots)
4. Would dwarves that overheard plotting be able to catch part of the plan and feed that information to the justice screen, or will they simply accuse dorfs of plotting?
5. How adversarial can dorfs get now? If that migrant was the spy all along, when they become incriminated, will they see no reason to keep their act and start fighting everyone?
1. Can necromancers/demons utilize mega beasts in their experimentation? For example making a new creature using parts of a dragon and a human?
2. Will new races created by necromancers have some abilities of the creatures they were created from? Some examples would be a carnivorous diet or the ability to fly.
3. What do necromancers/demons do with new races they create assuming they don't escape? I'd assume they wouldn't just kill a creation they spent so long working on.
4. If a player playing as a race created by a necromancer/demon visit's that necromancer/demon's base would they still be hostile to that player even though the player is of a race they created?
1. Will there be any form of beta access keys for the steam release?
Do you think the collectiom of criminal networks and further developments down the line in Law And Order might end up with enough foundation to support a new game mode, a la Liberal Crime Squad? Or will the scope of player control largely be confined to the two current perspectives: that currently being single adventurer liasing with individual contacts and communal independent settlement (adventure and dwarf mode respectively)?
Speaking of Uruk-hai, how far would you say the game is now from being able to generate a simplified version of LOTR? It seems to me that the villain update will give us quite a few of the pieces: artifacts that can be the subject of plots (albeit not magical ones just yet), intelligent undead servants furthering the agendas of their masters, alliances, and supernatural overlords corrupting the very land with their influence and twisting natural creatures to create their own servants are a few of the elements that I can name off-hand. Of course you'd probably have a better sense of that than me, which is why I'm asking.
With conspiracy and world conquest now strong themes within the game, are we going to see books being written about the topics, and these themes also reflected in the art and artifacts generated during world gen as with other historical events?
3. Let's see. Has a 'market' town (of whatever kind), values nature, speaks. The populations need to be nearby, which means having wilderness with savagery values around in vanilla. It also skips ocean and lake tiles.
Quote from: DoorkeeperThanks Toady, the slides [for the FDG talk] would be appreciated.
We're going to try for one better first, if we can - quite likely I'll be giving a very similar talk in November, and we're focusing on getting it recorded this time in a nice recording-oriented room.
Any plans to implement martial arts/body enhancing magical tags? I.e. bone enhancing, skin hardening, super speed? If so, would these spells be passed down in monasteries or kept down on paper?Suggestions forum is your friend.
Any plans to do a meet-and-greet at the roguelike celebration or strictly attending incognito?
Clearly the current system of wearing babies into combat and also allowing all orphaned babies to crawl off into the magma unattended is a little too hardcore for almost any conception of a dwarf. Not sure when we'll change it, obviously. But we'd like to do something, yeah.
While conversation may be a safer option than beating someone into submission, will excessive enquiring raise suspicion and eventual retaliation from villains too?If not now, then eventually. If I am understanding the rumor system correctly, you asking questions should generate its own rumor events which then get circulated that can reach it way back to villians. But I dont recall Toadyone saying that Villians can plan to counter your actions yet. Just that you can discover and follow the plots back to the villians themselves.
If you use violence to get information about villains they will hear about it and most likely retaliate (Wednesday dev blog here and Steam). Conversation, Toady says, is a "safer option". I'm asking what Toady means by "safer". Completely safe or chance of discovery and if that risk accumulates or if it's the same risk each time.While conversation may be a safer option than beating someone into submission, will excessive enquiring raise suspicion and eventual retaliation from villains too?If not now, then eventually. If I am understanding the rumor system correctly, you asking questions should generate its own rumor events which then get circulated that can reach it way back to villians. But I dont recall Toadyone saying that Villians can plan to counter your actions yet. Just that you can discover and follow the plots back to the villians themselves.
Will we be able to send out our own spies to neighboring civilizations in order to gather information about other civs and their intentions in fortress mode? Not in an aggressive manner I mean, but in a "I like to know what's going on to keep the peace" kind of wayThe convention is to use lime green for questions to Toady. This is to allow him to locate questions among all the discussions when it comes to answering them (you can update your post to add the color).
1. Given that vampires will be getting such an overhaul come next update, can we expect something like being able to ask for/demand blood and gain it in a non-violent/non-lethal fashion, or will NPCs continue to be murderous? On that note, is there a way to create vampires which need to feed on blood, but don't have the BLOODSUCKER tag? I've tried experimenting with just using [CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED] but it didn't seem to work.
2. I've noticed that sometimes when I put an adventurer in cities, they'll run into asterisks which will turn out to be things like crocodiles and cave dragons in the streets. Are these LARGE_PREDATOR type animals conducting raids on the town or do they live in the sewers or something and come out to cause mischief?
1. Given that vampires will be getting such an overhaul come next update, can we expect something like being able to ask for/demand blood and gain it in a non-violent/non-lethal fashion, or will NPCs continue to be murderous? On that note, is there a way to create vampires which need to feed on blood, but don't have the BLOODSUCKER tag? I've tried experimenting with just using [CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED] but it didn't seem to work.
2. I've noticed that sometimes when I put an adventurer in cities, they'll run into asterisks which will turn out to be things like crocodiles and cave dragons in the streets. Are these LARGE_PREDATOR type animals conducting raids on the town or do they live in the sewers or something and come out to cause mischief?
Asterisks on the map can be various things, armies, adventurers, monsters, etc,
Its not just monsters from the sewers, it can be raiders, or things from the sewers or anything in between. It just means "someone is traveling here" basically. So they could be from anywhere.
Most of the monsters taht are asterisks though are from lairs surrounding the city. Not from the sewers So raiding monsters.
1. Given that vampires will be getting such an overhaul come next update, can we expect something like being able to ask for/demand blood and gain it in a non-violent/non-lethal fashion, or will NPCs continue to be murderous? On that note, is there a way to create vampires which need to feed on blood, but don't have the BLOODSUCKER tag? I've tried experimenting with just using [CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED] but it didn't seem to work.
2. I've noticed that sometimes when I put an adventurer in cities, they'll run into asterisks which will turn out to be things like crocodiles and cave dragons in the streets. Are these LARGE_PREDATOR type animals conducting raids on the town or do they live in the sewers or something and come out to cause mischief?
Asterisks on the map can be various things, armies, adventurers, monsters, etc,
Its not just monsters from the sewers, it can be raiders, or things from the sewers or anything in between. It just means "someone is traveling here" basically. So they could be from anywhere.
Most of the monsters taht are asterisks though are from lairs surrounding the city. Not from the sewers So raiding monsters.
I see. Maybe this is a bug on Legendsviewer then, because there are a bunch of animals listed as "outcasts" like how criminals are outcasts, not like how normal LARGE_PREDATOR types are treated.
What happens if a necromancer tries to incorporate a modded creature with custom bodyparts into one of their hybrid creatures?Dwarf Fortress creatures are made up of body parts which the system understands. Won't cause any problems, I imagine.
What happens if a necromancer tries to incorporate a modded creature with custom bodyparts into one of their hybrid creatures?
[...]
an individual necromancer sticks with one of each kind once they have a successful experiment (that is humanoid, small quad+, large quad+, giant.)
[...]Quote from: BeakromancerWill magical experiments have different traits depending on what creatures they were made from? For example, a creature made from elfs being at peace with wildlife.
EDIT: A better example would be a creature made from dwarves needing alcohol.
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8005095#msg8005095
Haven't done anything like that yet! The creature generator does understand the input creature (at least on the first humanoid, before it starts defaulting to the same result to save memory), but doesn't use it beyond counting limbs and stuff to see if the output should be humanoid/quadruped/etc. and also the basic size.
1. Given that vampires will be getting such an overhaul come next update, can we expect something like being able to ask for/demand blood and gain it in a non-violent/non-lethal fashion, or will NPCs continue to be murderous? On that note, is there a way to create vampires which need to feed on blood, but don't have the BLOODSUCKER (ie murdering people in their sleep behavior trigger) tag? I've tried experimenting with just using [CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED] but it didn't seem to work.
2. I've noticed that sometimes when I put an adventurer in cities, they'll run into asterisks which will turn out to be things like crocodiles and cave dragons in the streets. Are these LARGE_PREDATOR type animals conducting raids on the town or do they live in the sewers or something and come out to cause mischief?
Asterisks on the map can be various things, armies, adventurers, monsters, etc,
Its not just monsters from the sewers, it can be raiders, or things from the sewers or anything in between. It just means "someone is traveling here" basically. So they could be from anywhere.
Most of the monsters taht are asterisks though are from lairs surrounding the city. Not from the sewers So raiding monsters.
Will the activities of a player fort influence its post-retire activities, such as a fort with a powerhouse glass industry continuing to export glass objects? Will forts that produced lots of high-quality weapons and armor give equipment level bonuses to armies/mercenary groups recruited/based in that fort?That's something for the Economy Arc, a ways off.
Quote from: FieariQuote from: Fieari
How do you intend to make procedurally generated magic become "thematic"? Most fantasy works organize their magic around one or more themes, each theme having all magic working similarly. For example, some split magic into elements, or into schools. Brandon Sanderson is famous for particularly intricate magic systems... such as all magic requiring the user to ingest and "burn" metal inside their stomachs to cast spells. All fantasy magics that are more than fairytales have SOME organization to their magic.
I presume spheres would be involved. Will the RAWs have to expand to have lists of ways the spheres can influence magic? I know the myths will direct how magic works... but coherence is important! If a fire spirit is the source of magic in the world, how will the game know to make fire always part of the cost, or the effect, of the magic?
golemgunk and Shonai_Dweller mentioned using the creation myths for thematic consistency, and that's the starting principle we're going to work with. In the prototype, the spheres are linked to creators and creation methods and these are passed down the tree of causation; when a magic system is needed, magical effects attached to the proper spheres are preferred. It works pretty well on a very basic level. And we'll likely end up doing quite a bit more along those lines, criss-crossing the system with various conceptual linkages until it's vaguely good enough. Post-creation-myth actions can also be attached to spheres (or intermediate structures/concepts), so that, for instance, some grand betrayal in early historical world-gen can spawn a new magic system themed around deceptive effects.
There's a danger of being too on the nose sometimes, if you always go with the most obvious sphere, and we can try to leaven everything with some purely random elements, or have some higher-order procedural conceptual symbols that link together spheres more esoterically, something that can survive exposition but also give some more variability, e.g. the same way "fiery" can link up to "passionate" in some languages, and perhaps be linked to some canonical event or character.
Non-spherical rules can also arise from creation; if the universe begins with a primordial chaos of salt, and some creator turns salt into fire and water as a first step, then that universe's systems can respect 'salt' as the sort of basic element, with fire and water having a secondary but important status, and this can become a foundation for various generated systems. These have the fault of being somewhat random or rigid depending on the amount of guidance in their generation, but enough of these together should increase the variety a great deal, and pull the game away from "oh, there's a Fire God magic system again." Rules defining what life is and what happens during death, dreams, etc., can also interlink in non-spherical ways that enrich the systems, and we've discussed in the past using invisible personalities/'souls' to model half-living magical forces in ways that can link up with divination and miscasts in ways that go beyond tables and dice.
I'm hopeful things won't feel utterly mushy or random, nor too rigidly obedient to obvious connections, but it remains to be seen what we can actually pull off.
A couple more questions;
What if you want to raise a dismembered corpse as a lieutenant? Can you raise an intelligent undead from both a severed head and its headless body? Would they share a soul or have two separate new souls, or is this just not possible?
For that matter, could you raise your own severed hand, for instance, as an intelligent undead? If your original body was then decapitated, could your severed hand then raise your body and head? This is assuming that the raised parts retain knowledge of life and death.
Is there already a mechanism in place for different bodies sharing a soul, and if not, do you plan to implement it? Either in the short term, or as part of Myth and Magic, do you intend to implement a mechanism whereby souls can be copied or cloned, so that they retain the original's memories and personality but thereafter grow and change as individuals?
Wait, what are "mist zombies"? Or was that a typo?
Oh yeah, I did know about those. I've just never differentiated enough between them and necromancer zombies to give them a separate name. :P
I think this question is about how the soul works with the new intelligent undead lieutenants. They retain part of their previous identity so presumably some of their skills and part of(?) their soul.A couple more questions;
What if you want to raise a dismembered corpse as a lieutenant? Can you raise an intelligent undead from both a severed head and its headless body? Would they share a soul or have two separate new souls, or is this just not possible?
For that matter, could you raise your own severed hand, for instance, as an intelligent undead? If your original body was then decapitated, could your severed hand then raise your body and head? This is assuming that the raised parts retain knowledge of life and death.
Is there already a mechanism in place for different bodies sharing a soul, and if not, do you plan to implement it? Either in the short term, or as part of Myth and Magic, do you intend to implement a mechanism whereby souls can be copied or cloned, so that they retain the original's memories and personality but thereafter grow and change as individuals?
Undead don't have the "souls", so yes you can raise your own hand and such. And yes you can raise both the head and body of someone.
They dont have souls so they dont have skills and such aswell if i recall.
Mist zombies still have souls though, as do vampires.
I think this question is about how the soul works with the new intelligent undead lieutenants. They retain part of their previous identity so presumably some of their skills and part of(?) their soul.A couple more questions;
What if you want to raise a dismembered corpse as a lieutenant? Can you raise an intelligent undead from both a severed head and its headless body? Would they share a soul or have two separate new souls, or is this just not possible?
For that matter, could you raise your own severed hand, for instance, as an intelligent undead? If your original body was then decapitated, could your severed hand then raise your body and head? This is assuming that the raised parts retain knowledge of life and death.
Is there already a mechanism in place for different bodies sharing a soul, and if not, do you plan to implement it? Either in the short term, or as part of Myth and Magic, do you intend to implement a mechanism whereby souls can be copied or cloned, so that they retain the original's memories and personality but thereafter grow and change as individuals?
Undead don't have the "souls", so yes you can raise your own hand and such. And yes you can raise both the head and body of someone.
They dont have souls so they dont have skills and such aswell if i recall.
Mist zombies still have souls though, as do vampires.
Another question about alliances, as I realised the second part of my question on them back in May wasn't clarified (answer focused on who people would form alliances against).
Which civs will form alliances with each other? And, for modding reference, how is this determined? Does it take into account Babysnatcher/Item_Thief tags, current states of war, ethics?
I play with a mod which uses these tags to divide up the many different civs in my world so would be nice to know who's likely to be teaming up when the zombie apocalypse strikes.
The Devlog was talking about who people form alliances against (ie necromancers and goblins) and the fotf question in May seemed to be just confirming the same thing.Another question about alliances, as I realised the second part of my question on them back in May wasn't clarified (answer focused on who people would form alliances against).
Which civs will form alliances with each other? And, for modding reference, how is this determined? Does it take into account Babysnatcher/Item_Thief tags, current states of war, ethics?
I play with a mod which uses these tags to divide up the many different civs in my world so would be nice to know who's likely to be teaming up when the zombie apocalypse strikes.
Pretty sure the original devlog from way back in the day mentioned "required killing of neutrals" as an alliance deal-breaker, at least as I remember it.
"When civilizations are feeling set upon by the more evil threats (any group that requires the killing of neutrals, like gobs and the undead), they can join up now..."
Yes, that is the fotf question I'm talking about. And, again, the question is who can form an alliance. Not who do people form alliances against. That's not answered here. Irrelevant in vanilla perhaps, but when working with mods it's good to know how these things are determined.
Question about relationships.They're supposed to exchange words outside of dedicated socializing, but my guess is that it isn't sufficiently sustained to count towards building relationships. While it was a few versions back, I've had dorfs get into fights with merchants at the trade depot, and as far as I could determine it was initiated by the exchange of words.
As for now, if I'm not mistaken the dwarves only seem to build relationship with others when they are at a meeting hall or tavern, under the "Socialize" job. With the upcoming villain update and the rewrite of social interactions, will dwarves (or whatever race you are playing fort mode) be able to "chit chat" or interact with others while doing other stuff? (e.g. Hauling objects; building stuff; comming across others while going somewhere; While they raid sites; Train in the squads).
Organized religions, craft guilds, and more formal clans/families are something that I've been wanting for a long time. At this point, aside from the huge things that will each require multiple years, and things that have already been added, it's the thing I want the most. Certainly more than the villain stuff; although it's cool in some respects, the groups being added to Fort mode provides a social structure that has been one of the biggest omissions with regards to simulating a realistic community. If they also can have or claim rooms jointly (offices and meeting halls, including places of worship for religions, and perhaps workshops or other means of production for guilds) then that will do a ton to make the forts more believably alive, and perhaps even encourage more organic layouts. What's more, it can add an aspect of managing different factions to the game, on top of just building infrastructure, and will make individuals more distinct and notable.Remember there 's a whole development arc dedicated to these things coming up after the Mythgen releases, so while we may see something, don' t get your hopes up too much for anything more than bare-bones representation.
As far as I understood from that dev log, Toady was considering means by which you could wrest control of the fortress back, such as e.g. through an uprising, so the issue is under consideration. I wouldn't expect any specific answers to what you'd be able to do until development reaches that issue, though.
Latest devlog (10/24/2019) again mentions the possibility of losing because officials are corrupted. Do you intend for that to be a hard "game over" type lose? For instance, I could still run the fort if those corrupted officials stick to only stealing away things occasionally but still follow my orders re; posting militia to keep goblins out. Say, they're only ignoring part of my orders, those that are counter to their own objectives. That would still be playable, theyd basically just be slightly more obstinate than usual.
Can you explain what you meant with:Probably not, because, based on what I know about adventure mode characters, a lot of that is caused by histfigs having no clue what you are talking about. Like, even thought they can tell you about the dragon in a cave on the other side of the world, they won't actually know about the dragon in a cave on the other side of the world until you tell them the same rumour back, and even then they don't know what a dragon is. So hence the 'it was inevitable/terrifying' reply. I personally suspect a lot of that is going to wait for the entity rework in the law and customs arc, as it is very related to how a brand new histfig relates to the entities it is part of.
"The first part was to add some new per-character variables to every conversation - how much a person wants to stay, whether they are pleased with things, and how confident/dominant/composed they are feeling"
Does that maybe mean there will be less "it was inevitable/ it is terrifying" and more actual emotion in people's reactions while talking?
When villains update will be finished and/or downlodable?The last official announcement in which Today stated his schedule was in April 2018 when he said he'd take up to six more months before moving on to the Big Wait.
Is there any kind of balancing in terms of destressors you guys are planning?
Will butchering sentient corpse bug solved in Villains Update?Take a look at the bug tracker. Hundreds of bugs. Many major. Many not at all major and you probably wouldn't notice them if you weren't trying to mod that one specific thing. Like this one.
Will butchering sentient corpse bug solved in Villains Update?
will also allow the new w.g. features like divorce and multiple lovers to happen in fort mode.
First part yes. That's what it does. Read the devblog for stories of divorce, remarriage and multiple lovers. Age of marriage was also improved so it's not +-10 years any more but something more complex.Quote from: Toadywill also allow the new w.g. features like divorce and multiple lovers to happen in fort mode.
Does this mean that dwarves can remarry and continue having children?
For that matter, will it be possible for people to adopt babies if their mother dies? Because this is one of the saddest things to watch in a game. I had one dwarf get depressed and just left her baby crawling around outside, calling, "Mama!..." It tears me up a bit thinking about it. For reals.
With "something more complex" being that the older party has to be within 10 years of age of the younger, or within 1½ the age of the younger, whichever is greater. Thus, a 400 year old elf will be able to marry a 600 year old one, while a 12 year old dorf is able to marry a 22 year old one (i.e. the same as before).First part yes. That's what it does. Read the devblog for stories of divorce, remarriage and multiple lovers. Age of marriage was also improved so it's not +-10 years any more but something more complex.Quote from: Toadywill also allow the new w.g. features like divorce and multiple lovers to happen in fort mode.
Does this mean that dwarves can remarry and continue having children?
For that matter, will it be possible for people to adopt babies if their mother dies? Because this is one of the saddest things to watch in a game. I had one dwarf get depressed and just left her baby crawling around outside, calling, "Mama!..." It tears me up a bit thinking about it. For reals.
Yeah, I know, I posted in the thread already. I was more wondering if alongside the new stressors there are also new destressors, instead of only balancing the existing stress.Is there any kind of balancing in terms of destressors you guys are planning?
Looks like they're planning to tackle it sooner rather than later. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174931.msg8047476#msg8047476
Next up here will be the appointment of priests, often following petitions from (a sufficient number of) worshippers.
Do villainous infiltrator agents show up as visitors or also as migrants?
- According to dev logs, you can control companions but not other party members.I assume it means "adventurers being villains" which is done, and "fortresses being villains(?) which isn't and was never in the plans.
- This whole 1½ year extra arc is about Villainy (well, a number of months in the beginning was about finishing the Raiding stuff, before it was turned into an arc), with the dev logs indicating the adventure part is mostly implemented and the fortress part has just begun, with some work back-and-forth currently.
- Pilgrims can come to visit your fortress now as soon as you have a temple dedicated to their god. It's unlikely that will be ripped out... As far as I understand only "armies" move about the world as such, with migrants and visitors teleporting/slipping by unnoticed.
Will Museums, Sculpture Gardens, and Tombs/Memorial Halls eventually operate in the same system as the Taverns, Libraries, and Temples?Museums and sculpture gardens operate right now as part of taverns, libraries and temples. Push l to assign them to a location. My tavern is usually a sprawling multi-layer pleasure palace of dance areas, dining rooms, sculpture gardens and museums (and booze) which the dorfs happily spread themselves out across.
Will we see social events like marriages and funerals in Temples like we see spontaneous Performances in Taverns?
"fortresses being villains(?) which isn't and was never in the plans.
Finally, with all the core mechanics and tweaks in place, we hit the fortress mode changes: relationship improvements sparked by the villain upgrade, villains against the fort, any plotting that you yourself can do as a fort (either as counter-espionage or more actively), and any other bits from religions, mercenaries, etc. that make it over, though these last are undecided.
Ah, counter-espionage is working against villains. Doubt you'll have the opportunity to kidnap the demon villains. But we'll see."fortresses being villains(?) which isn't and was never in the plans.
From the 05/29/2019 devlog:QuoteFinally, with all the core mechanics and tweaks in place, we hit the fortress mode changes: relationship improvements sparked by the villain upgrade, villains against the fort, any plotting that you yourself can do as a fort (either as counter-espionage or more actively), and any other bits from religions, mercenaries, etc. that make it over, though these last are undecided.
So... if i flooded my civilization with elven propaganda redistributed by a trained scribe id probably have a lot of animal people turn up into the civ (not nessecarily fort, unless somehow it prompts a lot of sanctuary petitions) within 200 years? Neat. Elsewise its just something to configure with in modding in mind.
Doesn't seem to affect generated animalpeople all that much, you often have (suprisingly often carnivorous, i wonder if there's a connection) -people like saltwater crocodile men appear around dark towers, though that might be due to goblins being free to settle and border those regions.
Any plans to implement martial arts/body enhancing magical tags? I.e. bone enhancing, skin hardening, super speed? If so, would these spells be passed down in monasteries or kept down on paper?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhile conversation may be a safer option than beating someone into submission, will excessive enquiring raise suspicion and eventual retaliation from villains too?Quote from: ZM5Will adventurers get a negative reputation for accosting people too much with intimidation for no reason?
On that subject, will villains and their agents also get suspicious if they catch wind of the player questioning people around town?
Will it be possible for Villains to trick someone into performing tasks for them? So for example, a villain histfig asking the player to bring artifact a to point b, without the player knowing the whole thing is sorta illegal? Or do you think that's going to have to wait till a later release?
Will we be able to send out our own spies to neighboring civilizations in order to gather information about other civs and their intentions in fortress mode? Not in an aggressive manner I mean, but in a "I like to know what's going on to keep the peace" kind of way
"Bribes, reputation, presented evidence and the new relationship variables 'loyalty', 'trust/distrust', 'fear', 'love/hate', and 'respect' are all in the mix."
1 Does the player have any way to change the 'loyalty', 'trust/distrust', 'fear', 'love/hate', 'respect' values an NPC has to them or are we stuck with the default values? I could see it be possible to increase the fear and maybe respect values, but what about the other stuff?
2 Would reciting a poem exceptionally well make an NPC respect us more and thus more likely to share secret information with us?
3 Will we be able to use coins to bribe people even though there is no economy?
4 If we are able to bribe people with money, will this money then be added to that hist fig's "account" or are the accounts still just world gen only for now?
1. Given that vampires will be getting such an overhaul come next update, can we expect something like being able to ask for/demand blood and gain it in a non-violent/non-lethal fashion, or will NPCs continue to be murderous? On that note, is there a way to create vampires which need to feed on blood, but don't have the BLOODSUCKER tag? I've tried experimenting with just using [CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED] but it didn't seem to work.
2. I've noticed that sometimes when I put an adventurer in cities, they'll run into asterisks which will turn out to be things like crocodiles and cave dragons in the streets. Are these LARGE_PREDATOR type animals conducting raids on the town or do they live in the sewers or something and come out to cause mischief?
Quote from: Enemy postWhat happens if a necromancer tries to incorporate a modded creature with custom bodyparts into one of their hybrid creatures?Quote from: voliolI guess it is interesting that the word "humanoid" is used. Are the "humanoid" necromancer experiments actually humanoids, made from any captured creature with the right body plan (uses one of the HUMANOID body tokens, or has the right amount of stance/grasp parts), including livestock that do? Or is it just a shorthand for an INTELLIGENT/CAN_LEARN creature, in which case "humanoid" experiments from snakeman and centaur civilizations would not end up truly humanoid?
Will the activities of a player fort influence its post-retire activities, such as a fort with a powerhouse glass industry continuing to export glass objects? Will forts that produced lots of high-quality weapons and armor give equipment level bonuses to armies/mercenary groups recruited/based in that fort?
For the Myth & Magic arc, would I be correct in thinking that spheres will be the underlying general mechanic behind magic under which procedurally generated world-specific systems operate, rather than being an esoteric world-specific system in its own right?
Do you conceive of magical effects combining spheres, or will reach magical effect require only one sphere to use? For instance, would you need to or be able to combine a fire and a telekinetic sphere 8n order to cast a fireball spell (i.e one sphere to make the fire, another to move it)?
Will every game object be attached to a sphere and vice versa, for mechanical purposes? I'm thinking of elemental rock-paper-scissors, so you could smash a stone forgotten beast with a water effect but not a lightning effect, for instance. With so many spheres and game objects/actors, would this be impractical or would it simplify working out how magical effects interact with the world?
To what extent do you already have satisfactory physical processes implemented in the game for marrying up to spell effects? For example, fire, heat, etc.
Is there a possibility that the Myth and Magic release will lead to the inclusion of ambient light levels in fort mode? Light and darkness are such important fantasy staples that it would seem like a missed opportunity for them to not be included.
What if you want to raise a dismembered corpse as a lieutenant? Can you raise an intelligent undead from both a severed head and its headless body? Would they share a soul or have two separate new souls, or is this just not possible?
For that matter, could you raise your own severed hand, for instance, as an intelligent undead? If your original body was then decapitated, could your severed hand then raise your body and head? This is assuming that the raised parts retain knowledge of life and death.
Is there already a mechanism in place for different bodies sharing a soul, and if not, do you plan to implement it? Either in the short term, or as part of Myth and Magic, do you intend to implement a mechanism whereby souls can be copied or cloned, so that they retain the original's memories and personality but thereafter grow and change as individuals?
I forget if it was asked before, but if you play your adventurer as a villain and indulge in bribary, kidnapping and general intimidation, what happens on retire? Does the adventurer revert to whatever their standard values and goals were (and therefore possibly quit being villainous altogether), or will they remember that they have a gang and carry on being bad, possibly even expanding their networks?
Is it possible to end up having to track down your ex-adventurers and will they start leaving evidence all over the place for you to follow? Or is the system not going to be that robust just yet
Will we be able to use physical coercion and fear in lieu of intimidation checks? Such as, say, breaking fingers, or slaughtering all their mates in front of them? Does reputation count in intimidation checks? What about physical size and brawniness?
Another question about alliances, as I realised the second part of my question on them back in May wasn't clarified (answer focused on who people would form alliances against).
Which civs will form alliances with each other? And, for modding reference, how is this determined? Does it take into account Babysnatcher/Item_Thief tags, current states of war, ethics?
I play with a mod which uses these tags to divide up the many different civs in my world so would be nice to know who's likely to be teaming up when the zombie apocalypse strikes.
A question about these "accounts" historical figures and mercenary groups and the like have now. Are there any plans to incorporate those into fortress mode? If so, would there be an option to "pay coin" to a mercenary company to assassinate or capture someone?
Question about relationships.
As for now, if I'm not mistaken the dwarves only seem to build relationship with others when they are at a meeting hall or tavern, under the "Socialize" job. With the upcoming villain update and the rewrite of social interactions, will dwarves (or whatever race you are playing fort mode) be able to "chit chat" or interact with others while doing other stuff? (e.g. Hauling objects; building stuff; comming across others while going somewhere; While they raid sites; Train in the squads).
Latest devlog (10/24/2019) again mentions the possibility of losing because officials are corrupted. Do you intend for that to be a hard "game over" type lose? For instance, I could still run the fort if those corrupted officials stick to only stealing away things occasionally but still follow my orders re; posting militia to keep goblins out. Say, they're only ignoring part of my orders, those that are counter to their own objectives. That would still be playable, theyd basically just be slightly more obstinate than usual.
I know the adventure mode party work for this release is more-or-less done, but here's something I never thought to ask that just occurred to me:
Are the pets in custom adventuring parties directly controllable? Or are they restricted to just following the P.C.s?
Can you explain what you meant with:
"The first part was to add some new per-character variables to every conversation - how much a person wants to stay, whether they are pleased with things, and how confident/dominant/composed they are feeling"
Does that maybe mean there will be less "it was inevitable/ it is terrifying" and more actual emotion in people's reactions while talking?
With artifact theft plots coming to Fortress Mode, will we get more options on how we store, protect, manage and/or display our artifacts? Right now it is easy to choose where in the fortress your artifact bed or mechanism lives, but a pain in the ass to get an artifact sock or toy axe exactly where you want it.
So, I know creatures with a nature loving trait get a happy thought from seeing an animal, but do you think you have the time to let dwarves pet their animals? In general, a key characteristic of villains is that they cause a lot of stress in others. Is there any kind of balancing in terms of destressors you guys are planning?
2. You mentioned modifiers such as loyalty and love in how interrogation will work, does this mean our adventurers will finally be able to have friends and romantic interests to sate their needs for such things since those modifiers imply such relations will be possible?
3. With how easy it is to just loot valuables from warehouses in adventure mode in mind how effective do you think bribing NPCs to talk will be? I ask this as less scrupulous adventurers can easily procure a supply of goods to bribe people with from warehouses.
4. If our adventurer's use violence in interrogation in a town and word got out of that would they be penalized with a violent reputation still?
Will butchering sentient corpse bug solved in Villains Update?
Does this mean that dwarves can remarry and continue having children?
For that matter, will it be possible for people to adopt babies if their mother dies? Because this is one of the saddest things to watch in a game. I had one dwarf get depressed and just left her baby crawling around outside, calling, "Mama!..." It tears me up a bit thinking about it. For reals.
Quote from: DGIn the first iteration, will priests have duties they perform or is it limited to satisfying worshipers by occupying the position?Quote from: Beag1. How much more do you think you will develop organizations such as religious orders, merchant companies and mercenary companies before the next release? To clarify will they have activities they do besides simply existing? And if so would these activities be seen in fortress mode only or also in adventure mode to some degree?
It was mentioned in the steam dev-blog:
"If you use the arrest power in a ridiculous fashion, you'll see your fort turn against you, whether there's a villain there or not"
Could you expand on this?
Assuming it creates some hostility between dwarves which are 'loyalists' and others which rebel, if said rebels win do we continue to control the fortress under their government?
Kobolds and snatchers always get stopped from stealing anything because someone immediately sees them and they leave or get killed. Will villains have some more sneaky way to steal stuff and do their dirty work? What's to stop someone from seeing the thief the moment they walk through a main hallway with artifact in tow, rendering them a hostile and initiating a great dwarven dogpile? If you've got some other system in mind for sneaky thievery, will kobolds and snatchers be able to make use of it?
Do villainous infiltrator agents show up as visitors or also as migrants?
Can a royal official that trusts you get you access to talk to the king, now that they can trust and be verbally sparred?
Is it possible, theoretically, to talk your way all the way up an organizational chart, befriending every member, so as to convince them all to leave you alone?
How much harder is it now to convince every ruler that peace is good?
Are people less likely to listen to value arguments of people they don't like? Can talking people around through the verbal "fights" make them more receptive to value changes as well?
Why did you remove the AMBUSHER token from goblin civilizations?
Formally, is there any difference between a member of your party and a regular companion? If yes, is there any way to move one from the other?
Can you acquire pets beyond your starting party?
Are adventurer villainy and fortress villainy still on the table? What kind of plots are we expected to be able to carry out?
Do pilgrims physically move around to holy cities post world-gen?
Is your fort able to become a holy city? (For instance, if you're one of two cities with a religion and one gets razed) Can religions, prophets and persecutions spontaneously arise in your fortress?
Can pilgrims arrive in your fort if you have a shrine?
Can your fort be a host to a holy relic (e.g. if you host a religion's high priest)?
Will Museums, Sculpture Gardens, and Tombs/Memorial Halls eventually operate in the same system as the Taverns, Libraries, and Temples?
Will we see social events like marriages and funerals in Temples like we see spontaneous Performances in Taverns?
With the correct configuration of ethics, will modders have the ability to disband the penalty/aggressively pursue conviction for incorrectly or misjudged arrests, or will the multiple factors like attitudes to justice affect this no matter which typical or tweaked entity civilization you will play?
With bribery now a thing, it seems to make sense to (re)introduce coins and the use thereof into fortress mode. Is there a specific reason you are not doing so, the development does not require the economy because the goods the dwarves buy with their money can simply be conjured into existence in the hands of visiting peddlers the same way the caravan's goods presently are? Is bribery going to be ruled out in fortress mode altogether or do you instead intent to have non-money based bribes by which actual goods are given to dwarves; that would seem to require gift-giving to exist normally so as to provide cover for this mechanic.Coins can be minted in fortress mode: They just don't have any use. As far as I understand the economy was disabled because it was a buggy mess that would require too much work to fix, and I would expect the work required hasn't decreased, while the Premium release probably has a rapidly approaching last release date.
With bribery now a thing, it seems to make sense to (re)introduce coins and the use thereof into fortress mode. Is there a specific reason you are not doing so, the development does not require the economy because the goods the dwarves buy with their money can simply be conjured into existence in the hands of visiting peddlers the same way the caravan's goods presently are? Is bribery going to be ruled out in fortress mode altogether or do you instead intent to have non-money based bribes by which actual goods are given to dwarves; that would seem to require gift-giving to exist normally so as to provide cover for this mechanic.Coins can be minted in fortress mode: They just don't have any use. As far as I understand the economy was disabled because it was a buggy mess that would require too much work to fix, and I would expect the work required hasn't decreased, while the Premium release probably has a rapidly approaching last release date.
I imagine they'd just use abstract accounts for now, same as everyone else. Would be odd to introduce coin exchange just to facilitate bribery. Still I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.With bribery now a thing, it seems to make sense to (re)introduce coins and the use thereof into fortress mode. Is there a specific reason you are not doing so, the development does not require the economy because the goods the dwarves buy with their money can simply be conjured into existence in the hands of visiting peddlers the same way the caravan's goods presently are? Is bribery going to be ruled out in fortress mode altogether or do you instead intent to have non-money based bribes by which actual goods are given to dwarves; that would seem to require gift-giving to exist normally so as to provide cover for this mechanic.Coins can be minted in fortress mode: They just don't have any use. As far as I understand the economy was disabled because it was a buggy mess that would require too much work to fix, and I would expect the work required hasn't decreased, while the Premium release probably has a rapidly approaching last release date.
We aren't talking about the economy, as coins and the use thereof is not the economy. The rest of the world could still remain economically static after world-gen and all the goods bought by our dwarves would simply magicked into existance the same way that caravan goods are. Coins actually work better than way because we do not have to worry about the external supply of goods for sale actually having a basis.
The main question though was how bribery is going to work in fortress mode without coins or if bribery is not going in for that reason.
I imagine they'd just use abstract accounts for now, same as everyone else. Would be odd to introduce coin exchange just to facilitate bribery. Still I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
Since only nobles are targets, it's easy to imagine a source of off-site wealth for bribes to fall into. "Promise of wealth on completion of mission" too. Still, not a big deal if bribery doesn't make it at all.I imagine they'd just use abstract accounts for now, same as everyone else. Would be odd to introduce coin exchange just to facilitate bribery. Still I guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
That would make sense at is actually all that money is good for, in the real world as in dwarf fortress. :)
In world-gen it works fine to use abstract accounts since it is all abstract anyway and it glosses over the cultural details. To have your dwarves bribed with imaginary wealth is rather strange/confusing so I really hope we do not go down that route. As I see it there are three decent options, introduce the use of money in fortress mode, prevent fortress mode dwarves from being bribed at all or introduce gift-giving in general as a cover for bribery in specific terms. I do not consider imaginary bribes a reasonable fourth option.
Fortress mode question!
The blog mentions being able to "track down" and "send somebody after them" when it comes to villains. Does this mean sending one dwarf, or a military squad to capture a villain? If they can be captured, will they be escorted to one of your dungeon cells?
I'd find it really fun to capture my fortress's nemesis and put him on display somewhere. To ultimately give him some creative dwarven justice.
targeted assassination/'arrest'(kidnap)
targeted assassination/'arrest'(kidnap)
will we be seeing armies demand to have specific residents of the fort turned over to them / executed on the spot?
Since only nobles are targets, it's easy to imagine a source of off-site wealth for bribes to fall into. "Promise of wealth on completion of mission" too. Still, not a big deal if bribery doesn't make it at all.
It doesn't really matter, nothing in the game is complete and we ignore abstractions in fortress mode every day. "Was bribed, abstractly" isn't any more immersion breaking than "was trapped in a wooden cage (dragon)".
Actions like flattery can increase trust but decrease respect, for example, depending on the personality of the NPC.Does that mean we can flatter and flirt with any random person in adventure mode?
You can fill these jobs yourself with any worshipper you like - we thought it would be too cruel to randomly take one of your best dwarves away.I think this is too bad. 1: Because I was hoping for entities like religious organisations and craftguilds to be factions inside your fort that you don't have direct control over. 2: The question of if the ruler gets to assign a religious head or not is a classic conflict in history. 3: Because I think it gives your dwarves additional personality when they themselves decide they want to apply for a position like this.
we thought it would be too cruel to randomly take one of your best dwarves awaySo priesthood is a fulltime occupation? Do priests do anything in the fort(sermons, consolation, I guess other religious rituals are out of the question for now), or are they like barons and other nobles, in that they are not supossed to work but do because that nowork tag is currently bugged?
I am sorta wondering that if decorations are what makes the temple, what makes the crafts-guild.
I am sorta wondering that if decorations are what makes the temple, what makes the crafts-guild.
It would certainly be cool if there were differences, say only statues and engravings improving temple status and only fancy furniture for crafts-guild status, or whatever.
only fancy furniture for crafts-guild status, or whatever.
Can player necromancers create the new constructed undead that you added a month or so back? What about the intelligent undead?Constructed undead abominations, no (September fotf).
With the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?
Toady:
Death Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8004710#msg8004710
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8017739#msg8017739
Yeah, as suggested in the replies, it's a bit out of scope. It isn't an 'interaction' in the way the other powers are, because it's presumably occurring through some process that has additional inputs over time, etc. We'll be sorting these more complicated bits out with the magic stuff.
Will player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
Toady:
Yeah, you can raise them. The resurrection fitness function has always required a central part (the upper body in most cases), to avoid the historical figure from ever being attached to two separate creatures (which would crash the game currently, but we'd like to support in some way later, for various weird situations.)
Thats a shame, would have been an awesome addition. He did add summoning as an interaction type if i recall a devlog so that could have been a placeholder stopgap. Ahh well.Can player necromancers create the new constructed undead that you added a month or so back? What about the intelligent undead?Constructed undead abominations, no (September fotf).QuoteWith the adventurers as villains content, and the new actions necromancers and demons (with the death sphere I presume) can do in creating experimental creatures and undead types, could player necromancers do the same things when it comes time for adventure mode villainy?
Toady:
Death Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8004710#msg8004710
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8017739#msg8017739
Yeah, as suggested in the replies, it's a bit out of scope. It isn't an 'interaction' in the way the other powers are, because it's presumably occurring through some process that has additional inputs over time, etc. We'll be sorting these more complicated bits out with the magic stuff.
Intelligent undead lieutenants, yes. (June fotf).QuoteWill player necromancers be able to create intelligent undead and if so how much of a corpse is required for it? For example could we make an intelligent zombie severed head?
Toady:
Yeah, you can raise them. The resurrection fitness function has always required a central part (the upper body in most cases), to avoid the historical figure from ever being attached to two separate creatures (which would crash the game currently, but we'd like to support in some way later, for various weird situations.)
How looks harpy and ogre eyes? How ogre and harpy see?With the eyes their raws inherit from the generic [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]. I think someone more familiar with the raws can detail that better. Unless you are not talking about raws?
Harpies and ogres have eyes and see by eyes. But theyre eyes ingame called white. How creature can have white eyes and see? I know only Oratosquilla oratoria.How looks harpy and ogre eyes? How ogre and harpy see?With the eyes their raws inherit from the generic [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]. I think someone more familiar with the raws can detail that better. Unless you are not talking about raws?
Fantasy creatures don't have to obey real world physics, and even so, is there anything that would prevent a white iris to work properly, or, for that matter, a white/silver reflecting layer at the back of the eyes (like the green ones cats have).Harpies and ogres have eyes and see by eyes. But theyre eyes ingame called white. How creature can have white eyes and see? I know only Oratosquilla oratoria.How looks harpy and ogre eyes? How ogre and harpy see?With the eyes their raws inherit from the generic [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]. I think someone more familiar with the raws can detail that better. Unless you are not talking about raws?
Mind, I think DerMeister's English isn't good enough for them to be able to look critically enough at their own posts and see that half their point is missing. I am not sure what they can do about that, as I myself was good enough at English once I started posting on internet forums...No, the quality of the English isn't the issue, as it can usually be understood, but the leaving out most of the information, relying (and failing) on telepathy to bring the context across is. The above is a typical example of asking only half the question, get a straight answer to that question, only to get a small piece of the rest of the puzzle, resulting in a new answer to the somewhat expanded question, etc.
Mind, I think DerMeister's English isn't good enough for them to be able to look critically enough at their own posts and see that half their point is missing. I am not sure what they can do about that, as I myself was good enough at English once I started posting on internet forums...No, the quality of the English isn't the issue, as it can usually be understood, but the leaving out most of the information, relying (and failing) on telepathy to bring the context across is.
Is there a possibility to start a "war" between two vilians? Especially between player-vilian and AI controlled one?
In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp. So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?
A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?
In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp. So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?I'd expect the spreading of evil from a necro tower to be tied to the tower itself (and it being inhabited by a necro so it's active). If that's the case the question turns into one of whether an adventurer can turn its camp into a "necro tower" or if a necro adventurer can "turn on" a necro tower.
A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?
In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp. So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?I'd expect the spreading of evil from a necro tower to be tied to the tower itself (and it being inhabited by a necro so it's active). If that's the case the question turns into one of whether an adventurer can turn its camp into a "necro tower" or if a necro adventurer can "turn on" a necro tower.
A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?
My guess is that the answer to the first question is no for the time being (too far off the center of the current development arc target), with the second one a "maybe" depending on how easy it is for DF to detect the necro's presence and activities.
Regardless, spreading evilness in adventure mode is going to be a rather tedious task given the rate at which it spreads, with the time scale being years for any shift and decades for significant effects to be seen. Sure, a necro has all the time in the world, but the player doesn't. It would actually be more "useful" to turn a player fortress into a "necro tower" when it comes to noticing the spread of evil, but I don't expect that to be possible in the Villains release.
For the really long term evilness spreading purposes you'd want epic time scales, such as a world observation mode where the activated world just continues while the player watches passively (or goes off to do something else, such as catching up on sleep or earn their living), but that's not something that's going to happen in the near term, although the embark time has been DFHacked to allow for that activity to progress much longer that the standard two weeks, but you'd need to make an embark every time you'd want to see what's happened since the last time, as well as to save the progress, and won't see what's happening in between these times.
It would be a rare thing for sure. The game is supposedly getting most actors involved in these plots based on personality type, so infiltrators would already be the sort of folks who care more about personal gain than anything else. But maybe they meet a really persuasive fellow and lose an argument, change their values, and their ways. You never know.Remember it's not the top dog coming to infiltrate your fortress, just some henchman, possibly blackmailed into doing the job. With the complexity of values in critter's brains these days, it's not inconceivable for someone to rate love and friendship over fear of a far away, possibly not that threatening mid-level villain.
With all this swaying of loyalties going on, have you considered the reverse? Time and again in fantasy fiction, the "infiltrator" makes friends, falls in love and finds his/her loyalties to the Big Boss conflicted. With love, respect and loyalty messing up our critter's brains now, seems like this is quite possible.
"Will we have any meaningful interactions to the dialogue interrogators have with POW's and other non-agents caught in cages?"
Can you build temples or temple complexes to specific religions before being petitioned or has the interface changed in the new version? Right now I find that making a temple for each god keeps dwarves happier than having the one all-purpose temple (not scientifically tested). So, I'd probably do this anyway way before any priest asks me to.I don't see any reason to block players from planning ahead with temple designation, but the question is relevant.
Also, do priests and high priests suffer from jealousy over the value of their temple compared with other temples? That still happens with nobles and their room value, doesn't it?
If i recall correctly adventurer mounts are in the upcoming version. If so, how does one get a mount, do they have to start with one if they want one or is there a way to purchase them? Also , does riding it make you move faster ion the world travel map?For a start, they'll be available as "pets" when you create your party. Without taming or horse sales as a feature of Adventurer, there's not likely to be many other ways at first. Although, adventurer taming is surely low-hanging fruit.
You can now create as many characters as you want when you start adventure mode, and they'll start together as a party. There are new equipment and mount/pet pages, as with skills and attributes, where you customize your character(s) from an additional point pool.
Just a quick question - As the mythgen update will add artifacts with actual effects, how far will this control extend in terms of mods? Would it be possible to, for example, have a library of user-defined artifacts (with set names, effects, materials, etc) that will be guaranteed to show up in a world?An editor is planned for Mythgen (maybe not right away), so you can make fixed worlds to exact standards, sites, historical figures, artifacts, etc. So, I'd imagine a fair amount of flexibility through that. Doubt the relationship between that and random worlds has been worked out fully yet though. Would be fun to input exact artifacts that someone will make someday into otherwise random worlds. But probably difficult to realize.
Guys does toady plan to make building like rimworld where you can just for example order a bed to be created without using workshops.The manager lets you do that already. Just order a bunch of beds.
Thank youGuys does toady plan to make building like rimworld where you can just for example order a bed to be created without using workshops.The manager lets you do that already. Just order a bunch of beds.
Dwarves themselves will still use a workshop though. Rimworld folk just build stuff whevever they like? Hmm.
Changes mentioned by Toady regarding workshops involve changing them to zones, somewhat like the Locations now. So presumably you'll be able to add tools, extra people, I guess that might lead to apprentice systems and such. That'll break all sorts of things though so won't happen until the Big Wait (when breaking stuff is allowed, apparently).
Use Lime green text if you want to ask a direct question to Toady.
Artifact hunters aren't spies. They're completely open with what their objective is, although the ones I've termed "infiltrators"* cause a mess when one of them leaves and returns to sneak in and attack, in particular since their hordes tend to come shortly after the tavern opens, and then thin out over time as they gradually change to other military types (mercs and cavern litter) on later visits.
*Have to come up with a new name, as Toady will use it for some villains.
I love the artifact thief deciding to go visit the tavern after getting his artifact. Fleeing the map is probably wiser, but it paints an awesome picture.
My old "infiltrators" are the subset of questers that send one of their number out to come back to try to steal the artifact/attack, activating the rest of the group. You obviously don't know beforehand whether a quester horde will turn your fortress into a mad/slaughter house or behave in a civilized manner (with or without demanding that an artifact is handed over to them). Thus, I'm using the Quester term for the overall category, but there's a need for a term for the mayhem creators (as well as fixing the bugs if their existence is intentional, and removing the whole mess if it's not).Artifact hunters aren't spies. They're completely open with what their objective is, although the ones I've termed "infiltrators"* cause a mess when one of them leaves and returns to sneak in and attack, in particular since their hordes tend to come shortly after the tavern opens, and then thin out over time as they gradually change to other military types (mercs and cavern litter) on later visits.
*Have to come up with a new name, as Toady will use it for some villains.
I gnerally call all Artifact hunters "questers" in the current version as tahts what toady calls them, because they actually get tasks from lords to retrieve artifacts and slay beasts and travel the world map to gather info and gather info about it like a person in d&d would. (They even go to taverns and such outside of your fort and it simulates that as you play and you can intercept them on their quest in adventure mode) They aren't really spies s much as NPC Ai adventurers trying to gather info to complete their quest. Much like player adventurers.
Infiltrators as in the upcoming version are then completely different.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quester
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_activities
My old "infiltrators" are the subset of questers that send one of their number out to come back to try to steal the artifact/attack, activating the rest of the group. You obviously don't know beforehand whether a quester horde will turn your fortress into a mad/slaughter house or behave in a civilized manner (with or without demanding that an artifact is handed over to them). Thus, I'm using the Quester term for the overall category, but there's a need for a term for the mayhem creators (as well as fixing the bugs if their existence is intentional, and removing the whole mess if it's not).Artifact hunters aren't spies. They're completely open with what their objective is, although the ones I've termed "infiltrators"* cause a mess when one of them leaves and returns to sneak in and attack, in particular since their hordes tend to come shortly after the tavern opens, and then thin out over time as they gradually change to other military types (mercs and cavern litter) on later visits.
*Have to come up with a new name, as Toady will use it for some villains.
I gnerally call all Artifact hunters "questers" in the current version as tahts what toady calls them, because they actually get tasks from lords to retrieve artifacts and slay beasts and travel the world map to gather info and gather info about it like a person in d&d would. (They even go to taverns and such outside of your fort and it simulates that as you play and you can intercept them on their quest in adventure mode) They aren't really spies s much as NPC Ai adventurers trying to gather info to complete their quest. Much like player adventurers.
Infiltrators as in the upcoming version are then completely different.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Quester
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_activities
2. Caravan robbing and playing as either guard or bandit is in the dev notes yes. Nothing seems to be planned regarding real caravans for the upcoming release though.
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.
2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?
3. So necromancers will teach their secrets to willing co-conspirators if their personalities allow it. Would a type of secret holder who does not live in a tower also be capable of gaining disciples? Like, if I were to make a worldgen secret that did not make the user immortal but taught them how to throw fireballs and the like, could that person teach others how to do it? Right now, that sort of thing only happens in towers to my knowledge, so I'm curious.
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.
2. Caravan robbing and playing as either guard or bandit is in the dev notes yes. Nothing seems to be planned regarding real caravans for the upcoming release though.
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.
2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?
3. So necromancers will teach their secrets to willing co-conspirators if their personalities allow it. Would a type of secret holder who does not live in a tower also be capable of gaining disciples? Like, if I were to make a worldgen secret that did not make the user immortal but taught them how to throw fireballs and the like, could that person teach others how to do it? Right now, that sort of thing only happens in towers to my knowledge, so I'm curious.
Yeah, that's right. So, more accurately, what's planned is caravan guard jobs and "expanded options for bandit play". :)2. Caravan robbing and playing as either guard or bandit is in the dev notes yes. Nothing seems to be planned regarding real caravans for the upcoming release though.
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.
2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?
3. So necromancers will teach their secrets to willing co-conspirators if their personalities allow it. Would a type of secret holder who does not live in a tower also be capable of gaining disciples? Like, if I were to make a worldgen secret that did not make the user immortal but taught them how to throw fireballs and the like, could that person teach others how to do it? Right now, that sort of thing only happens in towers to my knowledge, so I'm curious.
You can in fact already join a bandit gang. No robbing caravans yet tho.
(removed a ban dodge account (Tentacle Demon/DerMeister) and some replies - don't think it was anything crucial, hopefully)
(well, the first time, Ishas strapped the pick on his back and went to enjoy himself at the tavern, which I then changed.)
Quote(well, the first time, Ishas strapped the pick on his back and went to enjoy himself at the tavern, which I then changed.)
Well i dont know if this is a sneaky hint or not regarding whether any subtle changes to unit inventories are being implemented, because that kind of action doesn't really habitually happen, often preferring to keep things they interact with in hands and have a little freakout when they're holding a mug and a object in the other for instance they can't just hook on their belt or put on their person like a player adventurer can with generous inventory."If the infiltrators (more to say also covering spies/questers) bring a outfit as part of their disguise or profession attire that's bulk (lots of things already attached and full Armor layer %, posing as a mercenary for instance) and wear the artifact on their way out, have you made any contingency to have them trade equipment or will they walk very slowly on their way out trying to wear a platinum helmet without taking the copper one they had on before off."
- Very rarely ever swapping or putting on back weapons they're using (opaquely connected to armor layer room space or whether two weapons being stored clash it seems like), and reacting to a very specific situation like crossbowdwarves changing weapon to melee (which can be micro'd like sending them to a training range just to revert back to active crossbow-weapon but its unreliable and single type of weapon dwarves are preferred for novice soldiers).
I would hope that a discarded helmet, and witness reports of the dwarf/agent wearing a stolen helmet would help piece together a unanimous decision from the kind of meta-data the player sees about ownership and the gui stuff being chucked around under the improved system. But i don't think anybody really knows yet at what stage dwarves will get suspicious of the agent's intentions.
Do you think it will ever be feasible (post-mythgen, of course) for a player's various DF worlds to form a sort of "multiverse" similar to that of D&D? In the sense that different worlds generated within a single dataset could be connected in various ways and perhaps even have magical travel between some of them be possible? And if so, is this something you would actually have any interest in pursuing (which is perhaps the more important question)?The portals will allow for a multiverse, so I see little point in connecting multiple multiverses together. Apart from that, it would take merging of the saves to create something coherent (once a tape worm character from one multiverse moves to another, all the info about tape worm characters, their culture, etc. would have to be imported an inserted into the save of the receiving multiverse, essentially causing them to have to merge), resulting in a horrendously bloated save (in current day terms: might be "normal" in 10 years).
Do you think it will ever be feasible (post-mythgen, of course) for a player's various DF worlds to form a sort of "multiverse" similar to that of D&D? In the sense that different worlds generated within a single dataset could be connected in various ways and perhaps even have magical travel between some of them be possible? And if so, is this something you would actually have any interest in pursuing (which is perhaps the more important question)?The portals will allow for a multiverse, so I see little point in connecting multiple multiverses together. Apart from that, it would take merging of the saves to create something coherent (once a tape worm character from one multiverse moves to another, all the info about tape worm characters, their culture, etc. would have to be imported an inserted into the save of the receiving multiverse, essentially causing them to have to merge), resulting in a horrendously bloated save (in current day terms: might be "normal" in 10 years).
A more fruitful offshoot would be to somehow control multiple universes within a single multiverse during world gen, or even generate new ones on demand (new massive ritual opening portal, for instance). However, the secondary universes would need to be kept down in size for the save to remains somewhat reasonable in size (the "world" being just a few world tiles, the history being heavily pruned, etc.).
This issue has been raised several time, if i remember well. I even think there is a topic somewhere about it.
Main reply i think is that "forum culture" is something of the past. New people in 2019 don't invest so much in forum as they used to in 2009.
For instance, you could find a lot of "let's play" on the forum in the first years, but now you'll find it on youtube.
However, if you look at max visitor per day in forum stats, you'll see that it's not going down, so the main issue (if it is an issue) is about participation, not interest. (Edit : well maybe there is an issue with interest about DF, after all it's a 15 years very complex old game, but i don't think you can measure interest - or lack of - with forum participation).
(Maybe someone else knows the answer to this, but something I've been curious about.) Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.
Yeah, even today(the variation used to be even lower, had to be updated during the animal fundraiser) the variation of animal people (and regular animals too) is limited, you can check these kind of things if you look at the sites and populations txt. There's certain worlds where there's no animals. Unless somehow the regions themselves generate animals, or you bring them in via outsider adventurers(which are made from whole cloth).(Maybe someone else knows the answer to this, but something I've been curious about.) Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.
Im fairly sure no given world has the full amount of possible animal people as them being placed in a region still has a random chance associated to it.
I remember Toady saying something about animal people being fleshed-out as part of the mythgen development cycle. Their exact level of civilization will likely vary from world-to-world, but at the very least they should be upgraded to living in their own tribalistic societies rather than just being ordinary animals who happen to be humanoid-shaped and capable of language like in the current version.
Sorry if this answer is as incoherent as it looks to me, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. :P
Myth & Magic is intended to be capable of handling procedurally generated civs, and there's no logical reason animal peoples shouldn't be included in that mix (a creation myth where the great god Ukko imbued sapience into some bears and at the same time made them bipedal wouldn't be outside of a normal fantasy scope).Yeah that's exactly the sort of thing so was thinking of.
I remember Toady saying something about animal people being fleshed-out as part of the mythgen development cycle. Their exact level of civilization will likely vary from world-to-world, but at the very least they should be upgraded to living in their own tribalistic societies rather than just being ordinary animals who happen to be humanoid-shaped and capable of language like in the current version.Quick look through the back pages of Fotf reveals "origins of animal people" defined in Mythgen and actual Animal person civs probably in the next arc on societies, politics and law.
Sorry if this answer is as incoherent as it looks to me, I'm a bit scatterbrained at the moment. :P
I don't think the non-adventurer player mounts have been touched at all...
Right, Adventurer ai mounts do exist in the form of your companions. Forgot about that one. So no reason this wouldn't effect fortress mount/rider soul relationships. Good good.I don't think the non-adventurer player mounts have been touched at all...
Why would he change how mounts work in one context while not changing the other. Toady avoids doing weird game mode specific things like that as according to him they are a nightmare to deal with. So i imagine he also fixed those. Also how do your adventruer companions with mounts act, because you can have that now, if they have AI that takes that into account so do invaders. If they dont, invaders wont.
Oh wow, i just came up with another question.
How does the game treat retired characters with mounts, do the mounts just hang out in the village then with their hist-fig names or do they become stray, or do they just dissappear?
I'm too lazy too check if these were asked before, so i'm just going to ask these.
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?
I'm too lazy too check if these were asked before, so i'm just going to ask these.
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?
Vampires definietly become villains because they have to commit crime to survive, but generally Historical figures become necromancers because they already had a somewhat villainous personality, so making your dwarves into them wouldnt make a difference, the transformation doenst actually change the personality. (It doenst just generate necromancers they come about in worldgen by choices made by hist figs who become necromancers, or in your case a dwarf reading the wrong book) Now if a dwarf was already ambitious (thats a possible personality), it will probabbly just make it more likely.
If you want you can play adventure mode and see how it all works very personally :) rathe rthan making assumptions based on what you see in fort mode
I'm too lazy too check if these were asked before, so i'm just going to ask these.
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?
Vampires definietly become villains because they have to commit crime to survive, but generally Historical figures become necromancers because they already had a somewhat villainous personality, so making your dwarves into them wouldnt make a difference, the transformation doenst actually change the personality. (It doenst just generate necromancers they come about in worldgen by choices made by hist figs who become necromancers, or in your case a dwarf reading the wrong book) Now if a dwarf was already ambitious (thats a possible personality), it will probabbly just make it more likely.
If you want you can play adventure mode and see how it all works very personally :) rathe rthan making assumptions based on what you see in fort mode
I may be misremembering this, but I think Toady at one point stated that the change from mortal to necromancer/vampire comes with a personality change towards the extremely positive when it comes to scheming, to ensure that they actually create and execute their unique schemes. They don't actually get any better naturally at intrigue, I think, but as this release is themed around schemes, giving them a nudge so players have schemes to read about/take part in/stop seems fitting.
It is a fact that DF will be more complex and bigger over the years. In addition their technical requirements will be increasingly demanding. There would not be a PC powerful enough today to run the Final Version if it existed right now (perhaps the exception would be a quantum computer or a super server).Have the technical requirements actually gone up at all over the past 5 years? A lot has been added since 2014 (last time people mentioned a noticeable increase in requirements). If anything, it's running faster now thanks to optimizations. Replacing the ancient code with new, better designed code and optimizing over time is likely to keep the requirements stable for the foreseeable future.
For a project proposed for long-term development, what criteria do you follow so that each version of DF is consistent with technological progress? Perhaps you consider Moore's law?
How often do you renew or increase the characteristics of your PC or laptop due to the development requirements?
It is a fact that DF will be more complex and bigger over the years. In addition their technical requirements will be increasingly demanding. There would not be a PC powerful enough today to run the Final Version if it existed right now (perhaps the exception would be a quantum computer or a super server).Speaking as a software engineer,
For a project proposed for long-term development, what criteria do you follow so that each version of DF is consistent with technological progress? Perhaps you consider Moore's law?
How often do you renew or increase the characteristics of your PC or laptop due to the development requirements?
It is a fact that DF will be more complex and bigger over the years. In addition their technical requirements will be increasingly demanding. There would not be a PC powerful enough today to run the Final Version if it existed right now (perhaps the exception would be a quantum computer or a super server).Have the technical requirements actually gone up at all over the past 5 years? A lot has been added since 2014 (last time people mentioned a noticeable increase in requirements). If anything, it's running faster now thanks to optimizations. Replacing the ancient code with new, better designed code and optimizing over time is likely to keep the requirements stable for the foreseeable future.
For a project proposed for long-term development, what criteria do you follow so that each version of DF is consistent with technological progress? Perhaps you consider Moore's law?
How often do you renew or increase the characteristics of your PC or laptop due to the development requirements?
Well, its mentioned they could be able to share skills same way as military squads, so that'd be a really good bonus imo, along with some actual socialization.Oh yes, practice a craft need fulfilled by hanging out with other craftspeople playing with abstracted tools would be good to see.
Perhaps it'd allow for some automation of the "practice a craft" need too.
The problem with guilds fulfilling needs for crafting is that it goes against the grain of what guilds are: organizations for skilled craftsmen (who'd get their crafting needs fulfilled by their work), rather than the dabblers. However, that's a suspension of belief I'd be quite willing to engage in should Toady's guilds actually include huge hobby crafting sections.Well, its mentioned they could be able to share skills same way as military squads, so that'd be a really good bonus imo, along with some actual socialization.Oh yes, practice a craft need fulfilled by hanging out with other craftspeople playing with abstracted tools would be good to see.
Perhaps it'd allow for some automation of the "practice a craft" need too.
Maybe take on some of the useless children as apprentices so they can be something better then a peasant when they grow up too.
I don't think historically kids would join a guild, as they would've been too young to understand the concepts. On the other hand, children would probably be stuck doing stuff like hauling part time and they don't do that in DF either and these ARE dwarves...I originally assumed it was category (because who ever has 10 dorfs of the same job type, let alone 25?). But looking back through the devnotes I see a reference to a bonecarvers guild.
But yeah, I also hope the demonstrations get in, it'd be a good reason to actually foster a craftsguild instead of ignoring them because they might be a vehicle for villainy.
But since it's almost the end of the month...
Are guilds per job type or per job category? (So are we going to see farmer's and woodworking's guilds, or are we going to see pottery and carpentry guilds? Or Both?)
Will trade corporations also make an appearance in player forts? They're separate from craft guilds, right?
Do you think we'll see prophets and religious persecution show up in player forts? Or can we assume all prophets to be hacks?
For now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.
Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.QuoteFor now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.
From the steam blog (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8060514#msg8060514)
Well, I guess that answers that...
Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.QuoteFor now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.
From the steam blog (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8060514#msg8060514)
Well, I guess that answers that...
Seems reasonable.
Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.
If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?
Oh, what if they had archery targets in the guildhall and could train their crossbow skills, like a military squad, during downtime? That would be nice.Oh well that sounds more reasonable. My current fortress of 118 dwarves has potentially 3 guilds then. An opulent 26 "brown" guild (farming related), a regular guild for the 10 blue crafty dwarves and an extra regular guild just for the actual farmers.QuoteFor now, dwarves can join the guild corresponding to their specific profession and also one for their broader group (e.g. craftsdwarves and then a subchapter for bone carvers), depending on their actual skills rather than their labor settings.
From the steam blog (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8060514#msg8060514)
Well, I guess that answers that...
Seems reasonable.
Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.
If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?
Rather then attempt to answer this I want to say a huntsmans guild or rangers guild would be awesome. Even like a beastslayers/adventurer guild for forts and adventure mode would be awesome.
Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?8/7/2019 devblog:
The necessary map work I was set to do this week is now mostly completed. That included bandit and mercenary forts, merchant company counting houses, guildhalls, monasteries, and improved necromancer towers. The necros still need a bit of work, but overall it's in good shape. As usual, actually creating the maps and populating them brought various bugs and nonsense to the surface, some of it very old. I fixed the problems that I found, with the occasional collapsed roof and infinite pit to the underworld along the way.
We've also been convinced by this process that doing the map rewrite as part of the Big Wait is necessary. For instance, I was able to get guildhalls and counting houses to appear in non-player dwarf forts, but it was an iffy thing, and there are bandaids all over the place. The inability to extend map code smoothly is going to inhibit a lot of what we want to do with magic and beyond, so we'll definitely be tackling that.
Limegreen for questions to Toady.
I have been thinking a lot lately about how fast technology and the way coding is done have progressed over the past decade, with things such as neural networks coming to mind, so I have a few questions based on this topic:
1. What technology or discovery (if any) do you wish you had available when you first started work on DF?
2. What newer technology would you like to implement at one point in DF?
3. What possible future technology are you most excited about, especially when it comes to developing DF?
4. I know this will be a weird comparison, but I feel DF may end up a lot like a space probe, where a project started way later will surpass it because of advancements in computers and programming. How would you feel if another team started another project like DF (so a fantasy world simulator-generator) and ended up "overtaking you"?
5.This a bit more specific but I would like to ask someone who has a lot more experience in coding than me. I know there is this discussion about how the AI in the world will adapt to new mechanics introduced by random magic systems (such as free teleportation for everyone making doors obsolete). I was wondering if it would be possible to use some sort of self-learning AI at world gen (helped by a lot of already written background code) to generate realistic behavior in actors, or would that instantly kill any CPU?
Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?Yes. He tries to avoid inconsistencies.
What gameplay role do priests have? Are they like tavern keepers?4. Villains can hide any place that is abandoned/unpopulated caves, abandoned villages, abandoned cities abandoned Merc forts, sewers, whatever. They don’t like, have places generated for them unless they can build it.(a castle a tower a fort etc) (Like a bandit fort, those are in the next version)And they wouldn’t build an abandoned monestary for example but they could go to one that already exists and make that their hideout.
Could you do a breakdown of how reputation works in adventure mode (different types, scales, actions required)? The wiki is very unclear.
Who gets an abstract 'account' in worldgen? Is it specific to sites, buildings, histfigs?
If I understand well, sabotage in worldgen is abstractly harming someone's 'account', and embezzling is transferring from one account to another. How does that manifest in fort mode? Does the fort also have an account?
What kind of hideouts do villains have? I read something about an abandoned monastery in the devlogs but are there other types of sites (apart from the ones that are inherent to histfigs like necro towers ordemon spires)
Do bandits have specific forts now or do they stay in camps?
How do the worldgen relationship variables such as loyalty, fear, trust etc. interplay with fort mode relationships and emotions? With adventurer reputation?
Sorry if I missed it, but are adventurers' ability to conduct their own plots (e.g. to steal artifacts) still on the table? What about fortress counter-espionage, will that entail stuff like assassinating histfigs offsite?
Do mercenary forts send visitors to your fort? In fact, what do they actually do post-wg? What about monasteries?
1. When? The far future, or next release?
. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?
2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?
3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?
4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?
5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?
6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?
7. What about choosing your adventurers description? as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.
8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?
9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.
10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?
11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?
Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?Area workshops are planned but will break save compatibility. So scheduled for next massive update when that tends to happen (Mythgen, but maybe Steam too).
With bribery now a thing, it seems to make sense to (re)introduce coins and the use thereof into fortress mode. Is there a specific reason you are not doing so, the development does not require the economy because the goods the dwarves buy with their money can simply be conjured into existence in the hands of visiting peddlers the same way the caravan's goods presently are? Is bribery going to be ruled out in fortress mode altogether or do you instead intent to have non-money based bribes by which actual goods are given to dwarves; that would seem to require gift-giving to exist normally so as to provide cover for this mechanic.
Quote from: CodyoFortress mode question!
The blog mentions being able to "track down" and "send somebody after them" when it comes to villains. Does this mean sending one dwarf, or a military squad to capture a villain? If they can be captured, will they be escorted to one of your dungeon cells?
I'd find it really fun to capture my fortress's nemesis and put him on display somewhere. To ultimately give him some creative dwarven justice.Quote from: FantasticDorfCarrying on this question: "Can people who have been marked for arrest prior to leaving be pursued across the world map? As in to locate the identity of a were beast or fleeing vampire/villian/opportunistic artifact theif and then return them to the fortress in custody or otherwise."
I guess the devil is in the detail to how informal/formal the accusation whether player set on meta-evidence they know (saw the werebeast transform into the identity they're chasing or discovered the vampire by some means) or deduced from your dwarves witness statements and interrogation are credible to use.
Speaking of traps, will Villains be able to start making lairs in our fort if they corrupt including traps, documents etc?
will we be seeing armies demand to have specific residents of the fort turned over to them / executed on the spot?
Quote from: Death DragonActions like flattery can increase trust but decrease respect, for example, depending on the personality of the NPC.Does that mean we can flatter and flirt with any random person in adventure mode?Quote from: Toady One devlog 7th of novemberYou can fill these jobs yourself with any worshipper you like - we thought it would be too cruel to randomly take one of your best dwarves away.I think this is too bad. 1: Because I was hoping for entities like religious organisations and craftguilds to be factions inside your fort that you don't have direct control over. 2: The question of if the ruler gets to assign a religious head or not is a classic conflict in history. 3: Because I think it gives your dwarves additional personality when they themselves decide they want to apply for a position like this.
Does manually assigning someone to the priest position cause a negative thought in your religious population similar to how overruling the vote for mayor does when you just manually assign a new mayor, or does assigning a priest work similar to how assigning a barkeeper works with no strings attached?
I assume you're intending to put off the work on the power and influence of these uncontrollable factions inside your fortress to when you get into the status/laws/etc update after magic, right?Quote from: VivalasTo add to that:
Is it possible that certain organized religions may petition to install their own priest instead when a petition is put through? This would possibly be an additional cool way in which outside agents can weasel their way into your fort, too. Also: what options or actions do villains in charge of a religious organization undertake to further their evil plans. Would an evil Cat Pope or whatever install agent priests all over in an attempt to start a cat uprising or some such ridiculous mischief?Quote from: therahedwigSo priesthood is a fulltime occupation? Do priests do anything in the fort(sermons, consolation, I guess other religious rituals are out of the question for now), or are they like barons and other nobles, in that they are not supossed to work but do because that nowork tag is currently bugged?
Is there a possibility to start a "war" between two vilians? Especially between player-vilian and AI controlled one?
Can player necromancers create the new constructed undead that you added a month or so back? What about the intelligent undead?
It would be a little odd compared to the rest of the game for the player necro to be incapable of one of the major things necromancers can do given the way you have treated inconsistencies like this previously(usually from what I’ve seen you don’t let these sorts of inconsistencies into your game (And I think that’s for a good reason))
Can player create a plot just to use it's powers to fight another plot?
How looks harpy and ogre eyes? How ogre and harpy see?
In the upcoming version evil regions can gloriously spread outwords from necromancer towers. In adventure mode in the current version the player can become a necromancer the player can also use their zombies to build a camp. So will evil regions spread outwards from these sorts of camps If the player takes some time to build up the zombie population?
A while ago you talked about “really bad things” causing a region to turn evil (whether by sacrificing many creatures with a small age number, or some other terrible catastrophe. Is that still planned and will players be able to do this?
With all this swaying of loyalties going on, have you considered the reverse? Time and again in fantasy fiction, the "infiltrator" makes friends, falls in love and finds his/her loyalties to the Big Boss conflicted. With love, respect and loyalty messing up our critter's brains now, seems like this is quite possible.
Will we have any meaningful interactions to the dialogue interrogators have with POW's and other non-agents caught in cages?
Can you build temples or temple complexes to specific religions before being petitioned or has the interface changed in the new version? Right now I find that making a temple for each god keeps dwarves happier than having the one all-purpose temple (not scientifically tested). So, I'd probably do this anyway way before any priest asks me to.
Also, do priests and high priests suffer from jealousy over the value of their temple compared with other temples? That still happens with nobles and their room value, doesn't it?
If i recall correctly adventurer mounts are in the upcoming version. If so, how does one get a mount, do they have to start with one if they want one or is there a way to purchase them? Also , does riding it make you move faster ion the world travel map?
Talking of party set up, did you say you were going to add a save button to party creation like we get with dwarf mode setup? I know it's more complex than a standard "save" feature what with availability of animal people and certain types of equipment and so on in each world, but it would be nice to get a basic setup saved and then just have to tweak the details.
Kind of related to this suggestion:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173825.0
As the mythgen update will add artifacts with actual effects, how far will this control extend in terms of mods? Would it be possible to, for example, have a library of user-defined artifacts (with set names, effects, materials, etc) that will be guaranteed to show up in a world?
Any plans to increase the depth of the Adventure mode "Bard" playstyle? Social skills are getting alot of new mechanics and I was wondeirng if theres any plans to further improve the performance aspect of this? Rather then just the social part.
Adventurer investigations is still ongoing, right? What's the plan for when you finally track down a villain at the top of the network? How will the player know? I imagine someone playing the new interrogation game for hours while the villain adamantly denies working for anyone without ever realising they're telling the truth. Some pay-off would be nice. Not just, well he's dead, did I win? Did I miss a clue?
Any plans for improving the currently existing structures like catacombs and dungeons? Will villains hang out in those places if they don't have somewhere better to hang out? Any additional plans for improving them, such as making catacombs more "undead filled" rather then a maze of non-animated corpses skeletons and sarcophagi with the occassional mummy for example could intelligent undead move in down there??
Since some evil biomes spread now could they then overtake a human city/town and inadvertently fill up the catacombs with undead in that way. Could it destroy the town making it a ruin with catacombs filled with undead? Or perhaps be a vector for a new “slay the undead in the catacombs” agreement. Much like the current attack the tower trouble.
Do the plans/current work for fortress mode Villainy include any standing measures the overseer can actively set up to stop, or at least complicate, plots, rather than passive measures in the form of reports to the justice screen that the overseer might potentially notice before the criminal has left the fortress?
I'm thinking of things like guards that actually stop thieves/assassins from accessing restricted areas, rather than just note that they stole/murdered the artifact/monarch (while asleep in the bedroom), and anyone raising alarms (rather than just filed a report) when an outsider is seen carrying off an artifact (that hasn't been given away, of course, although I wouldn't mind if some dorfs would eventually be grumpy about that as well).
Obviously investigations would be active, but they'd have to be based on indications, and so doesn't fulfill this need. The fortress has long been short on standing means to protect against (visiting) vampires and spies (I've never actually seen a "real" spy, but plenty of goblin civ performance troupe members reporting back, as seen by invaders bypassing traps).
Sorry for the large amount of questions this time around, in your talk you mentioned how mannerisms dont really effect things in the current version of df, now that you have added interrogation, will mannerisms come up? Will you add this for fort mode investigations/adventurer investigation? That would make it impact the story Alot. Also when will clapping be added, it is defined in the raws but ive never seen it happen. Unlike spitting which happens all the time.
1. In a previous FOTF you mentioned the DEMON tag would become usable by modders. Would this allow modders to create their own dark fortress rulers or just make demons that live underground? There seems to be a difference between the two, but I might be overthinking things.
2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?
3. So necromancers will teach their secrets to willing co-conspirators if their personalities allow it. Would a type of secret holder who does not live in a tower also be capable of gaining disciples? Like, if I were to make a worldgen secret that did not make the user immortal but taught them how to throw fireballs and the like, could that person teach others how to do it? Right now, that sort of thing only happens in towers to my knowledge, so I'm curious.
4. On a similar note, it was mentioned how necromancers could reanimate sapient undead or special experimental monsters, which could gain independence and flee their master to wander the wilderness. Would it be possible to repurpose these interactions for transformed beings rather than reanimated ones? Like for example, say I made a wizard who could transmute corpses into, just for example, elves, would they function the same as a conventionally reanimated lieutenant? Or some other monster. Essentially, would it be possible to create wizards who create new forms of living monsters and races in addition to the vanilla undead ones?
5. What compels an NPC to wear gloves/armwear/cloaks? I've noticed some of them do, but some of them don't. I can't seem to find an underlying logic to it. Is it random?
Well i dont know if this is a sneaky hint or not regarding whether any subtle changes to unit inventories are being implemented, because that kind of action doesn't really habitually happen, often preferring to keep things they interact with in hands and have a little freakout when they're holding a mug and a object in the other for instance they can't just hook on their belt or put on their person like a player adventurer can with generous inventory.
Very rarely ever swapping or putting on back weapons they're using (opaquely connected to armor layer room space or whether two weapons being stored clash it seems like), and reacting to a very specific situation like crossbowdwarves changing weapon to melee (which can be micro'd like sending them to a training range just to revert back to active crossbow-weapon but its unreliable and single type of weapon dwarves are preferred for novice soldiers).
"If the infiltrators (more to say also covering spies/questers) bring a outfit as part of their disguise or profession attire that's bulk (lots of things already attached and full Armor layer %, posing as a mercenary for instance) and wear the artifact on their way out, have you made any contingency to have them trade equipment or will they walk very slowly on their way out trying to wear a platinum helmet without taking the copper one they had on before off."
I would hope that a discarded helmet, and witness reports of the dwarf/agent wearing a stolen helmet would help piece together a unanimous decision from the kind of meta-data the player sees about ownership and the gui stuff being chucked around under the improved system. But i don't think anybody really knows yet at what stage dwarves will get suspicious of the agent's intentions.
Do you think it will ever be feasible (post-mythgen, of course) for a player's various DF worlds to form a sort of "multiverse" similar to that of D&D? In the sense that different worlds generated within a single dataset could be connected in various ways and perhaps even have magical travel between some of them be possible? And if so, is this something you would actually have any interest in pursuing (which is perhaps the more important question)?
One last question, more of a fun one. How much were you inspired by daggerfall? The impact on adventure mode is palpable. And in my opinion thats amazing.
Also when will you add openable/enterable windows in adventure mode so we can do a cat burgler style thing in order to enter the villains tower or something? by like climbing the wall then entering the window.
Is something going wrong behind the scenes that causes the forums to keep going down?
Will a smaller range of intelligent animalpeople be generated in world generation, or is the plan to always have all kinds of animalpeople appear in every world generated? Seems like a smaller range of civilisation-tier animalpeople would make for more distinct generated settings.
...
Maybe my question should be:
Will animalpeople ever be civilisation-level species on the same tier as dwarves, elves, humans and goblins?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerRandomly jumping back to mounts (so many new things to play with in the upcoming release!). The new mechanics for controlling mounts also applies to npc mounts now (in fortress mode unless adventurer npc mounts have also been added), right? So mounts will go where the rider wants to go, rather than where they might want to go themselves? I just want to check that this solves the whole amphibious mounts pathing through water and killing their rider issue (unless the rider stops being able to control the mount for whatever reason, I suppose).Quote from: UntrustedlifeWhy would he change how mounts work in one context while not changing the other. Toady avoids doing weird game mode specific things like that as according to him they are a nightmare to deal with. So i imagine he also fixed those. Also how do your adventruer companions with mounts act, because you can have that now, if they have AI that takes that into account so do invaders. If they dont, invaders wont.
Oh wow, i just came up with another question.
How does the game treat retired characters with mounts, do the mounts just hang out in the village then with their hist-fig names or do they become stray, or do they just dissappear?
1:If kidnapping is a possibility, will my fortress be able to kidnap enemy leaders (or just historical figures in general)?
2:Along the same lines, will captured enemies/caged sentients be able to get themselves free/take over the fortress from within by using my dwarves?
3:If vampires/necromancers generally become evil by default, will my vampire necromancer fortress end up spawning hundreds of new villains?
It is a fact that DF will be more complex and bigger over the years. In addition their technical requirements will be increasingly demanding. There would not be a PC powerful enough today to run the Final Version if it existed right now (perhaps the exception would be a quantum computer or a super server).
For a project proposed for long-term development, what criteria do you follow so that each version of DF is consistent with technological progress? Perhaps you consider Moore's law?
How often do you renew or increase the characteristics of your PC or laptop due to the development requirements?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhat do you see as the purpose of a guild in a fortress? Without an economy or any real trade competition, they are....what? Social clubs?
From a Dorf point of view temples are a thing, because dorfs have religious needs plus gathering/socializing. Taverns are a thing because dorfs have a need for entertainment plus gathering/socializing. Guilds are a thing....because...demands provide a gameplay challenge (same as nobles)?
Apologies for slight pessimism, I wasn't around when guilds were last a thing.
Oh, and:
Will entertainers have a chance to get together and demand stuff? Seems like with priests demanding better temples and guilds demanding better guildhalls, entertainers lead by the tavernkeeper might demand bigger, better dance floors and especially more instruments for the tavern (put a stop to all that beatboxing). #notasuggestionatall
And, sorry, one more thing:
Are the guild numbers 10 and 25 moddable?Quote from: PatrikLundellAre you considering making the guild formation/progression thresholds player adjustable?
This is, of course, a thinly veiled request... The issue I see is that small fortresses (like the ones I've played) won't get those numbers (I'm not that worried about the full guild complex one for my case). Also, depending on how they behave, players may want to disable them for one reason or another, and an easy way to do that is to jack the formation threshold up through the roof.
Are guilds per job type or per job category? (So are we going to see farmer's and woodworking's guilds, or are we going to see pottery and carpentry guilds? Or Both?)
Will trade corporations also make an appearance in player forts? They're separate from craft guilds, right?
Do you think we'll see prophets and religious persecution show up in player forts? Or can we assume all prophets to be hacks?
Does using the dice at a shrine count as communicating with that deity in terms of needs?
Quote from: Flying TeasetsWill the guilds restrict entrance to their profession and hide trade secrets like their historical counterparts?Quote from: FantasticDorfI feel some of my questions i have right now feel kind of premature until we recieve some clarity about what exactly guild members do, possibility of visitors and any sort of special functions i feel Toady wants to keep hush hush.
Its nice that guild halls seem to have a working men's club theme about sociabilty (though in the terms of organised dwarf labor, there is no such gender distinction) that will be helpful. And that you seem relatively confident in their ability to talk amongst themselves in the meeting areas.
Are dwarves driven to make and join guilds based on personality facets (appreciation of craftmanship) or is it just hardwired related to experience?
I would be suprised if it wasn't the case, but it'd be particularly interesting to see a modding applied race swap-out or player grooming of civilization values because it inferrs that lazy/unappreciative dwarves do not make or assotiate with guilds, and that the mechanic could potentially be applied in reverse for negative value required organisations
Be assured, players will take the *utmost* care in censuring high nature value druid cults full of peace and nature loving brainwashed dwarves.
Seperately -Will we have any control over the profession training regime? As im worried about my dwarves spending more time training to do a job than actually working to earn xp, as well as some discretion a player could personally bring.
Mainly thinking of the examples of military training, where if you can tease the military schedule screen into doing what you want through the gui menu's you can essentially create the training scenario you desire including lowering/raising the number of participants and selecting individuals to train specifically with one another which often works out well.
Do green dwarves (rangers, hunters, etc) get a guild? Because demands for a room full of animal parts on pedestals sounds kind of cool.
If I have an opulent guildhall with everything a dwarf from a farming related profession could ever want, will I still be getting stressed dwarves demanding a regular sub-chapter guildhall for the 10 brewers?
Will the new craft halls and updated temples also appear in generated sites such as hamlets, towns, hillock and mountain homes or is it something that can only occur in player forts?
I have been thinking a lot lately about how fast technology and the way coding is done have progressed over the past decade, with things such as neural networks coming to mind, so I have a few questions based on this topic:
1. What technology or discovery (if any) do you wish you had available when you first started work on DF?
2. What newer technology would you like to implement at one point in DF?
3. What possible future technology are you most excited about, especially when it comes to developing DF?
4. I know this will be a weird comparison, but I feel DF may end up a lot like a space probe, where a project started way later will surpass it because of advancements in computers and programming. How would you feel if another team started another project like DF (so a fantasy world simulator-generator) and ended up "overtaking you"?
5.This a bit more specific but I would like to ask someone who has a lot more experience in coding than me. I know there is this discussion about how the AI in the world will adapt to new mechanics introduced by random magic systems (such as free teleportation for everyone making doors obsolete). I was wondering if it would be possible to use some sort of self-learning AI at world gen (helped by a lot of already written background code) to generate realistic behavior in actors, or would that instantly kill any CPU?
Speaking of inconsistencies, Tarn, i killed a bronze collosus , when i told the lady she said it was inevitable, but then i asked her what she thought of me and she said i was suddenly a legendary hero. Any plans to improve the responses?
What gameplay role do priests have? Are they like tavern keepers?
Could you do a breakdown of how reputation works in adventure mode (different types, scales, actions required)? The wiki is very unclear.
Who gets an abstract 'account' in worldgen? Is it specific to sites, buildings, histfigs?
If I understand well, sabotage in worldgen is abstractly harming someone's 'account', and embezzling is transferring from one account to another. How does that manifest in fort mode? Does the fort also have an account?
What kind of hideouts do villains have? I read something about an abandoned monastery in the devlogs but are there other types of sites (apart from the ones that are inherent to histfigs like necro towers ordemon spires)
Do bandits have specific forts now or do they stay in camps?
How do the worldgen relationship variables such as loyalty, fear, trust etc. interplay with fort mode relationships and emotions? With adventurer reputation?
Sorry if I missed it, but are adventurers' ability to conduct their own plots (e.g. to steal artifacts) still on the table? What about fortress counter-espionage, will that entail stuff like assassinating histfigs offsite?
Do mercenary forts send visitors to your fort? In fact, what do they actually do post-wg? What about monasteries?
1. What skills if any have already been slated for addition to adventure mode?
2. One of the most common maps made in any game are real world ones, Europe, North America, Africa etc and given that it is already possible to use advanced world gen to create and save "static" maps have you given any though to including some real world height maps in the Steam Release or do you think that is something for modders?
3. With the rise of organisations and the return of guilds I wondering if there are any plans for thing like the Assassin Guild, Thieves Guild or even a generic Adventurers Guild?
4. If these are not planned would they be mod-able?
5. How do you view Nobility and noble politics occurring? do Noble families act like organisations plotting and planning against one another or are they more like loose affiliations with no real goal?
6. With all the changes to adventure mode thanks to the addition of the party system I was wondering if it was now possible to choose what god you worship and how faithful you are?
7. What about choosing your adventurers description? as it is I (F) full random until I get large body for the added attack force.
8. With the addition of multiple lovers are mundane plots of petty grudges or jilted lovers seeking revenge on their own a thing? like hiring their own assassin and paying for it with a family heirloom with no overarching villain plot or corruption being needed?
9. I was also wondering are fighting pits and arenas planned? Arenas seem like one of the easiest ways to add a adventure mode "career" path.
10. With the addition of adventure mode parties is adventure mode receiving an "embark" screen where we can actually equip our adventurers before embarking on adventure?
11. If we are getting an adventure mode embark screen will we also be able to set the points available in advanced world gen like we can with fortress embarks?
Are you gonna tackle apprenticeship with this update? What about making workshops an area just like guildhalls?
Thanks for the answers Toady and Shonai.All I do is dig up answers Toady's already given. :)
All I do is dig up answers Toady's already given. :)
Hey there! Long time player and forum lurker, I've had a couple of questions on my mind for a few months related to the graphics release and I guess I've felt intimidated in asking, but here I go:The guys making the new tileset for the paid releases have their own thread here:
I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?
Also, are we going to be allowed to now have ghost and zombie tiles for specific professions? I.e. a tile for a male miner zombie and a different tile for a female farmer ghost?
Lastly, will we be able to have custom tiles for forgotten beast\titan\secret-fun-thing subtypes (such as separate tiles for Sauropod and Spider beasts), and will we be able to assign tiles (or at least colors) for material types like a beast made from mucus or gabbro?
I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?Nothing has been set in stone yet, but it's looking like there is a possibility that civilised creature sprites will be dynamically created based on their physical appearance (hair style, colours, etc) and the stuff that they are actually wearing.
For next time, some of the speaking skills are used now,
there's the new intrigue skill which can come up in interrogation.
At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes. They are not used yet.
"Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes. They are not used yet.
I saw that in the dev log where you mentioned enabling civ skill picks during character creation you mentioned wider skill use in adventure mode but said "not yet".
My question is what do you mean by "not yet"?
Specifically do you mean not before Steam release (my hope) or not before the Big Wait/Myth Arc (my fear).
Edit: Question Color
"Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.
Handy for mods where you can, I expect. Wouldn't expect any more major changes in Adventurer unless Steam release goes speedily and Toady suddenly decides to add a bunch of bonus crafting opportunities.
No great loss if he doesn't, there are already mods which add these functions.
07/17/2019 - Toady One - I started with some character sheet issues this time around. To keep up with some promises from old Future of the Fortresses for the new adventurers, I allowed the purchase of item quality in chargen, and the selection of religion, including the organized ones, depending on what town you start in and its history. I also changed the 'hearthperson or not' choice to allow for a variety of regular professional backgrounds, which mostly don't do anything in adv mode yet, but they give free skills which'll allow you to have some useful skills if you decide to retire in or move to a fort. At some point we'll get to wider skill use in adventure mode, but not yet!
We'll see. I imagine it's not likely to be part of the Villains release. Plans for Adventurer have been laid out fairly clearly and some parts may even be cut for time. Adding crafting and such wasn't in the initial plan."Not yet" presumably means you can pick brewing skill (for example) for your player character, but there's no opportunity in Adventurer to actually use it yet.
Handy for mods where you can, I expect. Wouldn't expect any more major changes in Adventurer unless Steam release goes speedily and Toady suddenly decides to add a bunch of bonus crafting opportunities.
No great loss if he doesn't, there are already mods which add these functions.
Yeah I understood that bit but was wondering about when Toady plans to expanded upon adventure mode skills and makes these background skill choices usable and the line I'm thinking of is about doing just that.Quote from: Dev_Log07/17/2019 - Toady One - I started with some character sheet issues this time around. To keep up with some promises from old Future of the Fortresses for the new adventurers, I allowed the purchase of item quality in chargen, and the selection of religion, including the organized ones, depending on what town you start in and its history. I also changed the 'hearthperson or not' choice to allow for a variety of regular professional backgrounds, which mostly don't do anything in adv mode yet, but they give free skills which'll allow you to have some useful skills if you decide to retire in or move to a fort. At some point we'll get to wider skill use in adventure mode, but not yet!
I was wondering if "not yet" meant not before steam release or not before the big wait.
Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.Yeah, tools. The adventurer sites update just abouts got away with that with axes and sharp knives to give you the bare minimum needed. But I imagine the rest is being put off until a good go at making it all realistic can be made. That and having the NPC's of the world use their tools and workshops too.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).
Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?
Yes, so that's an indication of the extra level of detail Toady presumably wants to see throughout Adventurer over fortress mode. It's not just a matter of switching on new workshops.Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).
Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?
Maybe i should explain better, it requires the workshop and something sharp thats why i said "aswell", but you cant do it with just the sharp tool. You need the workshop aswell.
Yes, so that's an indication of the extra level of detail Toady presumably wants to see throughout Adventurer over fortress mode. It's not just a matter of switching on new workshops.Ah, sorry, haven't done that in a while. Was thinking the workshop still needed a tool in hand to use.Well, the 'adventure mode medical improvements' suggests adventurers will at the least be able to understand how bandages work before the myth dev cycle.
But I suspect the main problem is tools. Woodworking and bonecarving right now uses any sharp tool, writing requires quires/scrolls, performances only require skills and knowledge, but I guess something like leather and clothmaking requires needles and scissors... But I guess so do sutures... Ah well, let's wait for the answer :)
Woodowrking actually uses a carpenters workshop in adventure mode right now aswell. You have to {b}uild it before you can do carpentery. I imagine thats where the "tools" are abstracted away. So he could do similar things for the other skills.
If it's simple to add new workshops then we might see some more. Although with plans to scrap workshops, it would probably be low priority compared to everything else (considering the current plans are already on the verge of being cut).
Can you add available workshops for adventurers through basic raw modding?
Maybe i should explain better, it requires the workshop and something sharp thats why i said "aswell", but you cant do it with just the sharp tool. You need the workshop aswell.
Quote from: squamous2. My memory might be betraying me here but was it mentioned that caravans would spawn in the world now? Not to like actually serve as an economy yet but just travel between towns as a flavor thing. Could I rob them?
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058135#msg8058135
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058148#msg8058148
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058157#msg8058157
EternalCaveDragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058162#msg8058162
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058170#msg8058170
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8058175#msg8058175
2. No caravans for the next release. I'm not sure what that might have been.
10/16/2018 Toady One As promised... a bit more toying around with villain-tangential world generation. With the Big Wait slowly approaching, there's a sense of wanting to put in place some interesting new broad dynamics, and that's causing this slight wander through feature land, I think, but we will get back to the villains-and-release before too much longer.
This time, we added traveling merchants and companies piggy-backing on the more abstract industry/trade sim that already exists, so you'll get a small window into that (which has been almost entirely invisible, but there, for years.) At their peak, the companies will form multiple trade outposts in other civs along the trade routes to facilitate more cross-civ link formation. Going to do the same thing with religion as well, so everything isn't just isolated market-site temples, but more connected setups, sometimes with a larger organization that can also facilitate link formation, across civs if I can manage it.
Are there any plans for civilisation/era-specific architecture?Yes, it has been brought up several times, and there is even some of it already in the game(towns right now work in such a way so that if a human hamlet gets taken over by the elves and later the goblins, you get structures from all three civ-types in that town). From the last fotf there was comment from Toady that he was unsure when he would get into properly handling that type of stuff, at the very least the next section that needs to be done is the myth and magic map rewrite (because that should simplify multi-level stuff like the dwarf forts).
Thanks! Hadn't looked hard enough, haha. I've yet to stumble over any such mixed town, too.Are there any plans for civilisation/era-specific architecture?Yes, it has been brought up several times, and there is even some of it already in the game(towns right now work in such a way so that if a human hamlet gets taken over by the elves and later the goblins, you get structures from all three civ-types in that town). From the last fotf there was comment from Toady that he was unsure when he would get into properly handling that type of stuff, at the very least the next section that needs to be done is the myth and magic map rewrite (because that should simplify multi-level stuff like the dwarf forts).
That said, this has always been about civ-specific structures, never about era specific, so I guess that part is still unknown :p
- As far as I understand it, there's going to be internal closed beta testing of the Premium release, which implies the work being split up to some extent, but to those outside of the beta it's a single unbroken run as usual, possibly with a little fewer new bugs than usual, although the rapidly diminishing time remaining until it has to be released will run counter to that.
- My understanding was that the romance modifications were done a year ago and haven't been released simply because there haven't been any releases since. Thus, I expect it to be included in the Villain release that release turned into.I was reffering to romance in dwarf mode.
- The Villains arc is a short one, in DF terms, at a bit over 1½ year (assuming its FIRST release happens within the next two months or so, and bug fix releases are kept to an absolute minimum [but hopefully not below that, this time]). I wouldn't expect a new arc to be shorter than a year, in particular if the development model is modified to support the latest release with fixes of important bugs and minor new features in parallel with new development to show the game isn't abandoned. Also note that Toady isn't one of the exceedingly rare SW developers who makes an accurate plan and sticks to it, but rather starts with an overfull table of features knowing some will have to be cut, an optimistic schedule, and pursuit of tangents, with the schedule the first thing to be adjusted when the plan didn't hold.Erm... Patrick, I have been playing this game since slightly before the 0.31.01 release... that's... 2009. There has been slight variations to the arc rhythm. For example, the animal drive was a series of bugfix releases that included a bunch of new animals each release, as well as associated nestboxes and beekeeping and clay. The minecart release also took about a month or two in total. What these releases have in common is that they required very little worldgen work. The villains release is still a relatively long DF devcycle. The longest has been 2~ years, which was the world activation release if I recall correctly. This one, also required a lot of worldgen work. Therefore, my conclusion of 10 years of observing the development, is that worldgen work is very intensive (and probably this has good reasons, I already laid out what my speculations here are). Ergo, I am asking how much is suspected to be in terms of worldgen work, because my experience is that once that foundation is laid, development goes pretty quickly.
What's "romance", unless it's the multiple lovers/lover(s) beside a spouse?Yes, that's the only "New romance stuff" going on. That and villains taking advantage of the new grudges / passions of jealous husbands and jilted lovers which Toady already mentioned in the devlog as happening in fortress mode. There's no "new fortress romance" stuff, whatever that might theoretically consist of (mind boggles). The only missing "romance" stuff is for the poor old Adventurer who won't be getting any loving for several years yet.
They go about the typical business of these visitors, and any dwarves they encounter are subject to attempts to sway their loyalties, using the techniques from world generation (flattery, intimidation, promise of revenge against a grudge, promise of immortality, etc.)
At some point early on, perhaps before traitors, we'll also have to bring the fort in line with the new relationship model. This will expand what grudges and friendships mean, and it will also allow the new w.g. features like divorce and multiple lovers to happen in fort mode.This is what I am talking about, you guys never saw it? (I mean, it's a long devlog)
This whole, "I'm going to cut the most ambitious development arc in years due to pressure from business people" is just depressing.Where are people getting this from? Devcycles have been cut before because they were too long? I am pretty sure it's just a self-driven sense of deadline?
And a couple of devlogs ago, as I quoted, he said villains were working in Dwarf mode by offering the promise of revenge against a grudge. That wouldn't work if the new relationships weren't working. It's the point of doing it.Quote from: Devlog 10/24/2019At some point early on, perhaps before traitors, we'll also have to bring the fort in line with the new relationship model. This will expand what grudges and friendships mean, and it will also allow the new w.g. features like divorce and multiple lovers to happen in fort mode.This is what I am talking about, you guys never saw it? (I mean, it's a long devlog)QuoteThis whole, "I'm going to cut the most ambitious development arc in years due to pressure from business people" is just depressing.Where are people getting this from? Devcycles have been cut before because they were too long? I am pretty sure it's just a self-driven sense of deadline?
The Steam work has been put off for a long while, and we have obligations to meet there, and artists and others to coordinate with, so some bits may have to be placed with the post-Steam army work.
Indeed. Even months before the Steam announcement, Toady was already expressing frustration at the degree to which he was dragging this cycle out. Don't think Kitfox has much (if anything) to do with it.
1. Necromancers (and demons) will create new kinds of beings in the next update, merging prisoners with the local wildlife. I guess this is kind of related to that. They can escape and later join civilisations just like animal people do now.
1. In a previous update you mentioned that animal people were some of the last holdouts to a necromancer's reign of terror. Are animal men going to receive any significant behavioral changes in the next update?
2. If randomly generated necromancers can create special undead, could we create our own necromancer types which could create unique types of undead? Would it be possible to start an adventure mode playthrough as an undead servant of a necromancer?
certain necromancers and certain demons can also magically experiment on or otherwise corruptly transform the citizens and livestock of cities that they capture. This leads to a variety of humanoids and quadrupeds and others (like little failed experiment winged blobs), some of which can escape into the wilderness and perhaps even rarely reintegrate into society (and thereby possibly become playable in adv mode and available as fort travelers and migrants.) Collections of citizens can also be amalgamated into monstrous giants.
He's talking about the world-take-over devlog, where a necromancer took over a small world, and the last vestiges of non-undeadness was a village of animal people. I personally figured they were part of a elven civ before all the elves went, but I guess the question is still valid.Oh, that. Yeah, a quick look at one of my worlds reveals any number of villages made up mainly of a few animal people. It's not that rare. Doubt Toady's going back to worldgen for this upcoming release. It's already overdue.
2. If randomly generated necromancers can create special undead, could we create our own necromancer types which could create unique types of undead? Would it be possible to start an adventure mode playthrough as an undead servant of a necromancer?
Oh, that. Yeah, a quick look at one of my worlds reveals any number of villages made up mainly of a few animal people. It's not that rare. Doubt Toady's going back to worldgen for this upcoming release. It's already overdue.
Woops, thought of one moreYeah, careful of that one.
6. To what extent does your shield protect your mount?
It'd be cool to ride at a fire breathing dragon, deflecting its fearsome breath, preparing to plunge a spear into its beastly heart. It'd be slightly less cool to then have all the fat boil off your horse.
If an artifact gets stolen in an area a player adventurer is in, is it possible the player adventurer will be interrogated if they are suspected of stealing it? If so how will responding to an interrogation as a player adventurer work?I don't think the justice system has been introduced to Adventurer yet (partly due to the problems of having fun while being in a cage). Right now, if people see you with their artifact they'll demand you put it back. Probably hasn't changed from that.
To add to Untrustedlife,While weird rumours might fly about, I'm pretty sure the "please don't fix bugs" people are a figment of your imagination. There are certainly a fair few people who will point out how things have always worked in the past with bugs fixed before release followed by "putting the fires out" which tends to last a couple of months after release. But that's not the same thing.
Do you really mean to finalize "Classic" in January, given the previously stated desire to sort out raid crashes and stress/memory issues on top of all the unknown new issues likely to arise from 18 months of pretty amazing and jam-packed development since the last release? Yes, you wrote "After any fires are put out," and I know there's some. . . tension. . . here on the forum between the "Hey, maybe some bug fixes?" and "No, no fix, only feature!" camps, but if there's ever been a time to square some things away before starting a major development cycle, perhaps it's now? Even the biggest "Feature" pushers eventually admitted some stress changes might have been nice by October 2018.
It would probably make sense, and could be interpreted to be the plan here (catching up with the artists), to get working on the graphical updates so as to have it in place for Meph and Mayday as soon as possible to finish the tileset stuff while Toady works on the rest, including bugfixing. Since afaik a lot of the graphical update was still to be decided until Toady gets working on it and figures out what's feasibly doable.ONLY if Toady starts supporting the current release in parallel with the next one: It would be a very bad move to fix the game breaking bugs identified within three or so weeks of the Villains release to catch the last Villains bug fix release and then have all the others (including game breaking ones: it took several months for the community to identify the raid equipment crash bug) wait until the Premium release is done (which is the result of immediately jumping onto "graphics" changes and then back to bugs in that code base only, as the "graphics" changes can't be released in a Villains bug fix, since it presumably will break a number of existing "graphics" sets).
ONLY if Toady starts supporting the current release in parallel with the next one: It would be a very bad move to fix the game breaking bugs identified within three or so weeks of the Villains release to catch the last Villains bug fix release and then have all the others (including game breaking ones: it took several months for the community to identify the raid equipment crash bug) wait until the Premium release is done (which is the result of immediately jumping onto "graphics" changes and then back to bugs in that code base only, as the "graphics" changes can't be released in a Villains bug fix, since it presumably will break a number of existing "graphics" sets).
I am currently making my own tileset for the game. With the upcoming graphical release, are we going to be able to finally have gendered tiles? If so, will we be able to have male and female tiles for each profession? Secondly, if this is happening, will you be adding trans gendered to dwarfs to the game that use tiles from the opposing gender (or even allow a third androgynous gender)?
Also, are we going to be allowed to now have ghost and zombie tiles for specific professions? I.e. a tile for a male miner zombie and a different tile for a female farmer ghost?
Lastly, will we be able to have custom tiles for forgotten beast\titan\secret-fun-thing subtypes (such as separate tiles for Sauropod and Spider beasts), and will we be able to assign tiles (or at least colors) for material types like a beast made from mucus or gabbro?
After reading Toady's and Shonai's replies I went back and reread some dev logs to rejig my memory, this in-turn inspired more questions.
There has been a lot of talk about player villain plots but I was wondering about player mercenaries, can the player join a mercenary company and go to battle earning some of the "Honors" that the company may have?For next time, some of the speaking skills are used now,
After rereading the dev logs I can see that intimidation seems confirmed but can you tell us what other speaking skills are already slated for next release?there's the new intrigue skill which can come up in interrogation.
While rereading the dev logs I saw that you added an "intrigue" tab, is this what the intrigue skill governs? and if yes in what way?
Also given that we will presumably be able to use judge intent to tell how characters are feeling I must ask, is it finally possible to see the fear in your enemies eyes while they beg for their lives right before they die? Or to put it another way if is start talking to someone I'm fighting will it tell me how afraid/confident they are feeling without utterances?At the same time, I allowed the taking of any civ skill, for the new character sheet background purposes. They are not used yet.
I saw that in the dev log where you mentioned enabling civ skill picks during character creation you mentioned wider skill use in adventure mode but said "not yet".
My question is what do you mean by "not yet"? more specifically by "not yet" do you mean not before Steam release (my hope) or not before the Big Wait/Myth Arc (my fear).
Right now books are kind of artifacts, and they have a tendancy to be stolen by visitors (or they just, um, forgot to put them down or something...). Are these going to be generating reports?
If I accidentally kill a visitor and put his artifact on a pedestal, or even just in a stockpile, does the game know it's now mine and start generating suspicious activity reports for it?
Are the justice system updates going to make it slightly less impossible to track down and capture a visitor vampire?
(Not actually experienced this myself, so someone else might chime in with what the specific issue is there and how updating the justice system might account for it).
But is there any kind of secure 'duress' of dwarves/other when they're brought to the sheriff's or will say interrogating a P.O.W cage caught goblin for rumors about prisoners, tributed artifacts and further information suddenly lead to them breaking free and starting a slaughter depending that the sheriff ability to hold them still?
Keeping in mind this is a bridge we've already come to pass with the dangerous animal hauling job being relegated to using cage transferral now: If prisoners are not safe or trustworthy enough to bring into the office, can they be escorted to a cage inside the law enforcement office?
Sorry if my questions are relatively similar and related, it just there's a discrepency that a dangerous vampire might end up being apprehended peacefully, brought to office, accused and unmasked then go immediately hostile like they do in adventure mode and there wouldnt be any sort of way to secure them from a outburst (like having their hands tied) unless i already exploited disorientation to put dwarves inside a cage trap (regarding question #2)
Is it something like a pause-and-zoom announcement when citizens notice a missing artifact or is it a passive report that waits to be noticed?
Will we finally be seeing a bit of justice in adventure mode in this release or is that still a ways off? Like could the lord of a village the adventurer angered send an actual assassin after you? Or is that all limited to villains, what if the lord is secretly a villain? Right now sometimes hearthpeople will attack you and follow you around in the village if you anger them in the current version/they run into you on patrol, but that isnt much and it may be only limited to cases where you actually attack the meadhall (though im not sure).
Quote from: therahedwigI've been mucking about with books. I have noticed with certain book forms, like the biographical dictionary and the genealogy, that my adventurer just wrote an essay. Is that because these forms are not properly implemented yet, or is it because my adventurer just knows too little about the world? Because star charts are also not really implemented, but they do give a chart text instead of an essay.Quote from: therahedwig- What determines whether a scholar will actually discover a topic at the end of their research? A coinflip?
- Why can bookbindings and codices not be decorated while scroll rollers can? Is it because the notion of a covering for the codex is missing?
- For many of the non-manual books, guides, chronicles, encyclopedias. I expected them to actually teach adventurers about the content(s), but reading them doesn't seem to do anything. Is this related to the rumour/knowledge split? Do these books do anything on the purest of mechanical levels, or is it mostly unimplemented?
1) To what extent will your dwarves interact with prisoners as of this coming release? Will it be possible for the dwarf carrying water to prisoners to become friends with them, try to release them, petition for their release, or be blackmailed by them?
2) What kind of value changes result from thoughts related to imprisonment? Can someone released early or who sees their blackmailer jailed start to value the law and stop being villainous?
3) You mentioned that in world generation you've seen family members completely lose trust in their villainous kin. Are there any interactions family and friends can have with villainous people that sways them from committing further villainy once their current intrigues are thwarted?
4) Can you pull up a gremlin on charges for their lever crimes and send out a squad of dwarves to non-lethally nab the little buggers in the caverns locally? Can you integrate said little buggers from jail instead of cages if you're simultaneously training them?
5) How strong is the influence of law values on decision making when it comes to schemes? How strong is the influence of the trust value on letting somebody convince you that actually laws are arbitrary and worth breaking with schemes?
Are there any plans for civilisation/era-specific architecture?
Will AI agents try to re-mount if they fall from their mount ? I mean, is a bandit aware of the fact that he is on something, and that, if he falls from his mount, he can ride it again ?
Second question : do you plan to add the mounting part in Arena too ?
I'd really like to test many things with mounting.
It seems to me that the "worldgen -> post-worldgen -> adventure mode -> fort mode" development process causes most of the new features to just be applied to the game's history generation, because by the time the actual gameplay parts of the development cycle are reached, there isn't much development time left.
Do you still prefer this development structure or would it be better for the game to go through it backwards and start development of new features in adv/fort mode?
- Do horses need to graze in adv mode? I looked around, but couldn't see anything regarding it. Horses ignoring you to graze is a pretty universal horseback-riding experience.
- How are you planning on tackling the steam release? Just one big monthslong dev cycle, or are you going to break it up a little so you can fold it into the bugfix cycles and have binaries for M&M to experiment with?
- Will the new romance stuff also be delayed for fort mode to the post-steam releases?
- Do you think the army stuff will take as long as the villains release has? I mean, sure the villains release got delayed by all the linking stuff that cropped up, but as far as I know it is also a pretty ambitious system for a video game. Will the army stuff require a lot of worldgen work, or is it mostly interaction and UI side?
Since elves operate in their own religious system compared to polytheism with the Druid holding higher office than the Queen, they are obviously different than all the other races for the next version who mostly adhere to polytheism (and goblin demonic monotheism, but until that's fixed: atheism). Besides establishments for shrines will there be any kind of barebones recognition of druidism from a playable fortress's perspective should a player switch the religious system in the raws and desire to pray to the natural spirit of the mountains?
Its something i might probe into when the version with priests eventually rolls out, but i imagine they're probably far away from acolytes doing very important nature stuff (purportedly via the mass recreational consumption of hemp plants grown locally) in that one day, a fortress priest/druid might inherit a prominent nationally important noble role via mass support or private selection of successors.
1. In a previous update you mentioned that animal people were some of the last holdouts to a necromancer's reign of terror. Are animal men going to receive any significant behavioral changes in the next update?
2. If randomly generated necromancers can create special undead, could we create our own necromancer types which could create unique types of undead? Would it be possible to start an adventure mode playthrough as an undead servant of a necromancer?
3. Could reanimating biome regions create special undead?
4. How exactly does a faction gauge the strength of someone they want to attack? You've mentioned before that civs will do this but what factors are at play here? Population, what metals they use, and what pets they have come to mind.
6. To what extent does your shield protect your mount?
It'd be cool to ride at a fire breathing dragon, deflecting its fearsome breath, preparing to plunge a spear into its beastly heart. It'd be slightly less cool to then have all the fat boil off your horse.
If an artifact gets stolen in an area a player adventurer is in, is it possible the player adventurer will be interrogated if they are suspected of stealing it? If so how will responding to an interrogation as a player adventurer work?
Quote from: voliolWhat is this ”limb regrowth effect” from the latest devlog? Some new magic effect, or something old like healing due to transformation? Am I right in assuming the latter parts meant this effect (whether new or old) will be moddable in the upcoming version?Quote from: Eric BlankToady, did you remove the body reset from transformations, then?
Can this effect be turned around to remove tissues from limbs, like in the old Armok game?
Quote from: UntrustedlifeSo the release will be in january according to the steam update, does this mean you didnt get everything you wanted for this release done, how much did you get done, can you give us a rundown on how close you came to that? How happy are you with it? (I like the good old Tarn Adams rambling)
Will making adventure mode a "fun game" still be a priority after the steam release given that the new players will likely focus on fort mode? Ive been worried about this. As I absolutely love adventure mode and i can see a ton of potential and love it even now given the ludicrous variety of roles the player can fill and the reactive world sim.Quote from: clinodevDo you really mean to finalize "Classic" in January, given the previously stated desire to sort out raid crashes and stress/memory issues on top of all the unknown new issues likely to arise from 18 months of pretty amazing and jam-packed development since the last release? Yes, you wrote "After any fires are put out," and I know there's some. . . tension. . . here on the forum between the "Hey, maybe some bug fixes?" and "No, no fix, only feature!" camps, but if there's ever been a time to square some things away before starting a major development cycle, perhaps it's now? Even the biggest "Feature" pushers eventually admitted some stress changes might have been nice by October 2018.
Can characters that got cursed by being bitten by a werecritter be cured by praying to a/the (right) god?
I didn't change that at all. I agree it is sometimes troubling, though at least you can interrogate an existing prisoner at a chain or cage if you don't want to bring them to an office, as I recall.Quote1. They probably chat with them, yeah, but they don't advocate for them or do anything meaningful.
not sure if anyone asked this, but is there a way you can make the rate, and reload time on range weapons a token so we can edit and customize different type of weapons?
not sure if anyone asked this, but is there a way you can make the rate, and reload time on range weapons a token so we can edit and customize different type of weapons?
Given that there was a suggestion thread for it a few months back, probably not :D
btw, questions to toady should be marked (lime)green, so he can identify them as questions directly to him swiftly :)
You don't need the closing tag; it's broken because there's an extraneous space in the tag. It should look like this:
[color=limegreen]
You don't need the closing tag; it's broken because there's an extraneous space in the tag. It should look like this:
[color=limegreen]
Thanks to the both of you, but...
You know how some people would knot strings round their fingers by way of reminders for whatever? The mistake was deliberate in that sense.
I'm not sure I understand you here,Silverwing deliberately mangled the bbcode so that they'd remember to get back to it later when they felt confident with their question. It's the first time I have seen this way of handling it myself.
[BODYGLOSS:CLAW_HAND:TRUNK:BRANCH_ARM:LEG_STUMP:ROOTS_FOOT]
Arrows particularly list their non-existant elf variants within fortress mode's stockpile listings, but i've never seen them in either mode up to current personallyI have arrows and bows that I got from the elves in my current fort... noone knows how to use them, because, you know, exotic weapons, but I do have them. It's those things turning into spiked balls that isn't there right now...
migrants teleport, diplomats/liaisons teleport, merchant caravans coming to the fort teleport - the oldest calendar events. Are those the only ones left? All of the 'heroic' and religious and scholarly professions move as armies do (to the fort and otherwise), as do siegers/thieves now. Ah, beast attacks (mega/forgotten/etc.) are still world map teleporters -- mainly because the FBs live underground and underground travel is still annoying.
As far as the graphical release is concerned, you've mentioned that initially there will be no Mac version. Does that mean the Mac version will be put on semi-permanent hold, or will there be an effort to hit the three OS versions in some subsequent release pre-Big Wait?
TarnAdams
[The Great Toad himself[F,S] 138 points 10 months ago
We haven't 100% committed on this one for Day 1 just because the current build set up is sooooo bad, for both Mac and Linux. I can't even play it through my virtual machine (the window is too small), and my Mac Mini is 10 years old, and I need to make sure I can get Mac working as the OS updates (we've had trouble on newer OSX). We'll keep people posted on this.
+1.
Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system? So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc. I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
+1.
Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system? So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc. I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.
Since there'll still only be one bug tracker they would just update the numbering for both versions. Won't be the first time the numbering system has been updated.+1.
Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system? So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc. I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.
A solution like this also eliminates most of the issue of having different names and numbers for the paid and free versions, in relation to community efforts like the wiki.
On the subreddit we fairly regularly hear from new players who can only find the "clearly outdated" DF2014 version of the wiki as it is (and yes I'm aware the wiki folk have their logical reasons.) I can only imagine the confusion a version "1.03a" next to a "0.48.03", for instance, would cause. Perhaps dropping the preliminary "0." on both would be ideal, v48.03 for everyone!
At least DF2014 superficially matches 0.4x.xx. I can’t see that happening next time, unless 0.5x.01 releases in 2025.Since there'll still only be one bug tracker they would just update the numbering for both versions. Won't be the first time the numbering system has been updated.+1.
Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system? So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc. I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
Was just thinking this today. Seems a good solution to Steam's awkward rules.
A solution like this also eliminates most of the issue of having different names and numbers for the paid and free versions, in relation to community efforts like the wiki.
On the subreddit we fairly regularly hear from new players who can only find the "clearly outdated" DF2014 version of the wiki as it is (and yes I'm aware the wiki folk have their logical reasons.) I can only imagine the confusion a version "1.03a" next to a "0.48.03", for instance, would cause. Perhaps dropping the preliminary "0." on both would be ideal, v48.03 for everyone!
As for "Df2014". Well, yeah, confusing as it is, that's for someone else to figure out.
Or Papa Gabe can dump a couple million dollars on Toady to hire a elite team of programers to push DF up to version 1.0 in a matter of weeks/months.
Of course this would bring about the end of the world but imagine the profits.
Or Papa Gabe can dump a couple million dollars on Toady to hire a elite team of programers to push DF up to version 1.0 in a matter of weeks/months.
Of course this would bring about the end of the world but imagine the profits.
You're forgetting to convert to Valve Time. It could end up with a release date of Soon™.
"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."
What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too."(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."
What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too."(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."
What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Devblog features an example of one who was made prisoner, then went on to lead a life as a farmer. They can do that because they don't look dead and can use general skills unlike zombies. Probably retain some skills from when they were alive too."(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."
What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
No, they're bound to their master by the dark art of necromancy, the personaity is just a distinction flair as they're still 'in pocket' as you might say. Toady's forward delayed goals are to have the player find their true name, likely by scribbing up slabs quickly in order to put them to rest.
Are friendship and grudges depend on personal traits or they are totally random? Like dwarves with opposing personal values are more possible to become rivals than those who have similar.
Probably already been asked/answered but when you return to it later, do you intend to add angry mobs to go after corrupt officials? Will we then be able to tell people about the corruption and incite them to do something about it?Insurrection and eventual take over of the fortress was put of until after Steam, so possibly nothing at all.
Most random npc residents dont even care about invaders conquering their site enough to participate in an insurrection now, in adventure mode at least. How if at all has that changed?
Are friendship and grudges depend on personal traits or they are totally random? Like dwarves with opposing personal values are more possible to become rivals than those who have similar.
In the past it was like this, dwarves who grudged each other took grim satisfaction when the other died and disliked speaking to them based to gaining negative score upticks in each of their relationships, humorless dwarves also found other comedians grating and annoying until they eventually became grudged, even if it wasn't reciprocated.
Its sort of telling that the fix to relationships would be more needed than ever, because its actually a big crutch of DF's gameplay for having the relationships in the fortress via turtling spiral out of control when too many dwarves are put in too much of enclosed space leading to Boatmurdered level disasters on occasion.
That's just the Tolerance facet, right?
Probably already been asked/answered but when you return to it later, do you intend to add angry mobs to go after corrupt officials? Will we then be able to tell people about the corruption and incite them to do something about it?Insurrection and eventual take over of the fortress was put of until after Steam, so possibly nothing at all.
Most random npc residents dont even care about invaders conquering their site enough to participate in an insurrection now, in adventure mode at least. How if at all has that changed?
Not sure if it was asked before but what will be the copyrights for game soundtracks? I'm asking because when the game is on Steam I'll start making a series of tutorials as i did before and i used DF soundtrack as background music for it. Will i be able to do it or youtube can potentially ban me for it?As long as you are playing dwaf fortress, and as you are playing the game's music is playing, you should be fine. The issue comes when using it in unrelated videos.
Not sure if it was asked before but what will be the copyrights for game soundtracks? I'm asking because when the game is on Steam I'll start making a series of tutorials as i did before and i used DF soundtrack as background music for it. Will i be able to do it or youtube can potentially ban me for it?Maybe better directing this to someone at Kitfox. Doubt they read fotf and won't reply here anyway.
Not sure if it was asked before but what will be the copyrights for game soundtracks? I'm asking because when the game is on Steam I'll start making a series of tutorials as i did before and i used DF soundtrack as background music for it. Will i be able to do it or youtube can potentially ban me for it?Maybe better directing this to someone at Kitfox. Doubt they read fotf and won't reply here anyway.
Does YouTube ban video game videos that use that videogame"s music? Wow.
Amusingly, instead of mentioning Omrak, a bug at first gave the report as the top villain having "played for sympathy using a shared belief in an unidentified creature"Leave it to Dwarf Fortress to produce an accidental allusion to the New Testament.
Does the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?Lime green for questions to Toady
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.
Does the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?Lime green for questions to Toady
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.
On structures you really need to be more exact. What about structures should be better? What isn't realistic? Doubt Toady's going to go play CDDA and study their code just to answer your question.
(Of course, if you're going to write a lot, it's better off in the Suggestions forum).
And there isn't an "Economy update" in the next version (besides some abstract accounts for bribery and weapon upgrades). So, it'll work as it's always done probably.
Is that a question?Does the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?Lime green for questions to Toady
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.
On structures you really need to be more exact. What about structures should be better? What isn't realistic? Doubt Toady's going to go play CDDA and study their code just to answer your question.
(Of course, if you're going to write a lot, it's better off in the Suggestions forum).
And there isn't an "Economy update" in the next version (besides some abstract accounts for bribery and weapon upgrades). So, it'll work as it's always done probably.
Cataclysm uses a simple jsonised code that allows them to tie a tile to a letter and quickly write structures. They have groups of items that each structure can spawn as well so a house will spawn a different set than a police station, a restaurant or one of about 80 types of shops. And there will be a lot of plausible variation in all of them.
The great thing is that every building you enter feels like it could be real - clothes and pillows in the bedroom, alcohol and food in the fridge, medicine in the bathrooms and clothes in the drawers. Shops have display racks, police stations have lockers, and loot always makes sense. Structures in DF are way too random and don’t make nearly as much sense, it ruins the feeling of a real world.
Does the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.
Does the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?Lime green for questions to Toady
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.
On structures you really need to be more exact. What about structures should be better? What isn't realistic? Doubt Toady's going to go play CDDA and study their code just to answer your question.
(Of course, if you're going to write a lot, it's better off in the Suggestions forum).
And there isn't an "Economy update" in the next version (besides some abstract accounts for bribery and weapon upgrades). So, it'll work as it's always done probably.
Toady's Trade map from 12/13/2018 devlog, though its mainly used to denote the colors in where religions are rather than particular trade or locations. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/imgs/religion_trade_map.png)Quote from: Toady1(10/23/2018) This week involved a lot of bug-fixing from last week, so there's not as much concrete progress to report. For instance, a human trading company called the Present Hall was wildly successful trading various leathers and bones for crafting, and eventually had enough clout to open a branch warehouse inside a dwarf fortress for the first time. Can't resist that draltha leather. This turned out to be a strategic error, as two short years later, a forgotten beast obliterated the fortress, the warehouse, and killed everyone inside. So, what's the correct response? Close the destroyed branch? No, no, you stimulate the (non-existent) economy by hiring local. Forgotten beast, you're the new (ruined) warehouse administrator, congratulations! Those sorts of fixes were straightforward, but more time was burned with screwed-up resource lists, naming problems and some stability issues.
Hope I’m not getting too much off topic, but Cataclysm is definitely a great source of inspiration. It has a great mapgen and an incredibly in-depth crafting system. Both are very easy to code. I added some NPCs, items and places with almost no knowledge in the field of programming. It’s insanely easy.Again, you can't and won't ever be able to code anything in Dwarf Fortress. It's not an Open Source game.
One thing other than mapgen would be the very clear set of traits for each item. Items have capabilities valued in points to determine how good they are for, e.g. bolt turning, butchering, lifting, hammering or heating food. The way you craft with various tools and how you can use different items like honey instead of sugar or lumps of steel instead of chunks, makes it absolutely amazing. I really wish we could see something like that in DF. You need an axe to cut a tree, a woodsaw or a saw or even an axe but it will take time to cut the trumk into planks, hammer and nails or ropes to build a wall. It’s insanely satisfying and immersive.
The question, I suppose is: can something like that be done in DF, within the constrains of its engine? The way it works in CDDA is wonderful and insanely easy and fast to code. If the simplicity can be replicated, it could make development faster and smoother.
Not sure if it was asked before but what will be the copyrights for game soundtracks? I'm asking because when the game is on Steam I'll start making a series of tutorials as i did before and i used DF soundtrack as background music for it. Will i be able to do it or youtube can potentially ban me for it?
Hope I’m not getting too much off topic, but Cataclysm is definitely a great source of inspiration. It has a great mapgen and an incredibly in-depth crafting system. Both are very easy to code. I added some NPCs, items and places with almost no knowledge in the field of programming. It’s insanely easy.Again, you can't and won't ever be able to code anything in Dwarf Fortress. It's not an Open Source game.
One thing other than mapgen would be the very clear set of traits for each item. Items have capabilities valued in points to determine how good they are for, e.g. bolt turning, butchering, lifting, hammering or heating food. The way you craft with various tools and how you can use different items like honey instead of sugar or lumps of steel instead of chunks, makes it absolutely amazing. I really wish we could see something like that in DF. You need an axe to cut a tree, a woodsaw or a saw or even an axe but it will take time to cut the trumk into planks, hammer and nails or ropes to build a wall. It’s insanely satisfying and immersive.
The question, I suppose is: can something like that be done in DF, within the constrains of its engine? The way it works in CDDA is wonderful and insanely easy and fast to code. If the simplicity can be replicated, it could make development faster and smoother.
So without knowing how fast and smooth Toady's current building procedures are we can't know that rewriting the code so it works the same as CDDA will help him at all.
He seemingly added castles, monasteries and bandit forts in a week so it doesn't seem that it's causing him many problems right now.
Devlog:
8/01 "now we can start on maps".
8/07 "The map work is complete. I finished bandit and mercenary forts, merchant company counting houses, guildhalls, monasteries, and improved necromancer towers."
--
Now, for modding options, it would be worth hearing about what may be possible later. Although site and building design will likely be part of the fixed world editor and that's coming after the map & site rewrite, so it may not be clear yet what will be possible.
When dwarves talking to each other is working what does that look like in the game? For example when walking past each other in a hall, is it sort of 'Unit1 greets Unit2', 'Unit2 insults Unit1' then they both continue on? Or is it more in depth like 'Unit1 mentions event/histfig/item to Unit2', 'Unit2 responds directly to mentioned thing', 'Unit1 says "it was inevitable"'?
Assuming they actually say things, does what they say depend on what their knowledge/opinions are of each other? Is this different from when they are specifically Socializing?
Will food spoilage make it to the game?
clipped
Yeah, that should be fine! :) Preferably you'd give credits in the description for the soundtrack, but Youtube shouldn't ding you for it or anything, especially if it's DF-based.
Will food spoilage make it to the game?
Quote from: Flying TeasetsWill rock salt ever become an edible item?
Bumber: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7933281#msg7933281
Random_Dragon: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7933335#msg7933335
This has been on the table with, say, food preservation before, and recipes and all that. So there are few angles and we'll get there when that stuff comes back into view, whenever that might be.
Quote from: Daniel the Finlander
Is food not rotting in stockpiles just a temporary feature? I've always thought that it was just a temporary placeholder until food preservation is expanded (with smoking and salting, for example), but I'm not so sure now because I didn't see anything in the dev notes.
We have some notes about food preservation, but it's not planned out. Would probably help the farm situation as much as anything.
Is there a plan for adding in further integration of plots and intrigues to adventure mode? Can we expect more plot-related goodness before the Steam release?After Steam release according to the devlog.
What does "all creatures w/ spit + animal people variation get it" (line 24) in the new file changes file mean? Is it describing which creatures get the pet interaction?yeah
When dwarves talking to each other is working what does that look like in the game?If you play adventure mode you could see it. Its very in depth, they even do small talk about the weather. (And yes all the same conversations happen in fort mode as in adventure mode, or rumors wouldn't spread the way they do)
1. Do any of the profession background skills our adventurer can now possess have any means of using them/training them?
2. Are there any special things our adventurers can do with the new array of possible starting items such as extracts and tools?
3. I played an escaped experiment and went to a necromancer tower, the necromancers and experiments were fine with me but the corrupted ones killed me, is this working as you intended?
4. Will you be releasing small patches for this update in the coming days as bug reports come in?
It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?Given the amount of work that would be desirable for the Premium release, as well as how I interpret what Toady has said earlier, I'd expect the "only" parallel work to be bug fixes.
Yes, I interpreted it that way. Then read some statements again and thought too much about it. And now it's the end of the month, so....Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?Given the amount of work that would be desirable for the Premium release, as well as how I interpret what Toady has said earlier, I'd expect the "only" parallel work to be bug fixes.
It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Did you test for sure?It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Im extremely sure it’s conversations.
Did you test for sure?It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Im extremely sure it’s conversations.
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.
Did you test for sure?It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Im extremely sure it’s conversations.
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.
Having a species that can’t talk make a civ doesn’t work all that well as far as I know so I haven’t tried that. But you can see it in the new version easily enough. Necromancer towers filled with experiments that can talk are much slower. And you can see the exclamation points slowly pop up everywhere and when they stop you can walk. But it’s not just those. Like I said it happens wherever isn’t offloaded even if it’s not on screen. And people really don’t walk much they mostly just stand there talking.
Did you test for sure?It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?Are you sure it's specifically the conversations causing lag and not just the way it's trying to update the movement of several hundred off-screen people/horses/beak-dogs at once.
Im extremely sure it’s conversations.
My best guess for a test would be modding in a race that is not capable of speech that occupy large areas like that, and seeing how performance changes.
Having a species that can’t talk make a civ doesn’t work all that well as far as I know so I haven’t tried that. But you can see it in the new version easily enough. Necromancer towers filled with experiments that can talk are much slower. And you can see the exclamation points slowly pop up everywhere and when they stop you can walk. But it’s not just those. Like I said it happens wherever isn’t offloaded even if it’s not on screen. And people really don’t walk much they mostly just stand there talking.
Just tested this now. Spawned an adventurer in a large city and walked around, then saved and changed the raws to stop everyone from speaking. Disabling speech actually cut the FPS in half. While they were speaking I was getting 25-35 FPS but when they were mute it was 12-15. I suspect it's because, like you said, they're normally talking instead of moving around. Without any conversations going on, all they have to do is try to path everywhere.
As for the towers, it's probably just that there are more units loaded in. Or maybe the intelligent undead try to move around more often.
Bogeymen dont attack anything with [NOFEAR].
Also they wouldnt attack you now unless you're in the correct evil biome - they've been relegated to them instead (only 10% of evil biomes I think have bogeys).
Just curious: why are failed experiments represented by the letter "H" in-game as opposed to the "Ñ/ñ" tile used for other night creatures?
I noticed you have been doing different updates on steam versus on your own devlog lately? (eg today(1/30/2020) you talked about the new bugs on steam but didn't do a dev log on your website about it and you have done this a couple times now) Any plans to change it so you post the same thing in both or will i have to continue checking both from now on to get all the latest dev news?I would much rather Toady posts the latest information whenever he posts something. Not mentioning things that he's done just because he hadn't done them when he posted somewhere several days ago just seems counterproductive. It's a single click away. Not to mention that everything he's saying over there is known by everyone over here.
I noticed you have been doing different updates on steam versus on your own devlog lately? (eg today(1/30/2020) you talked about the new bugs on steam but didn't do a dev log on your website about it and you have done this a couple times now) Any plans to change it so you post the same thing in both or will i have to continue checking both from now on to get all the latest dev news?I would much rather Toady posts the latest information whenever he posts something. Not mentioning things that he's done just because he hadn't done them when he posted somewhere several days ago just seems counterproductive. It's a single click away. Not to mention that everything he's saying over there is known by everyone over here.
I'm sympathetic to your question myself. It's far from the first time the Steam update has gotten unique info, however trivial.
The best I can offer you though is that I do have a thread here on the forum where I post the Steam updates soon after they are uploaded, which you can subscribe to, and of course I always link them on the subreddit.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg7983341#msg7983341
This was probably answered before so if anyone has a previous answer by Toady I'd be more than happy to hear it.At least world gen allows for new religions to spring up and recruit followers, which implies those characters can at least adopt religions, and megabeasts have attracted worshipers for a long time.
Can dwarves change/adopt religion? Do sermons make dwarves more inclined to a different religion? Can dwarves lose faith in a god?
I'm amused by the way that some of the demon lords of hell have, after being unleashed and executing everyone in sight, adopted Dwarven religions.This was probably answered before so if anyone has a previous answer by Toady I'd be more than happy to hear it.At least world gen allows for new religions to spring up and recruit followers, which implies those characters can at least adopt religions, and megabeasts have attracted worshipers for a long time.
Can dwarves change/adopt religion? Do sermons make dwarves more inclined to a different religion? Can dwarves lose faith in a god?
Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Necromancers have mastered the secrets of life and death and are now immortal, crazy, book writing, lich type things.Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Well, necromancers don't, so I would assume the same thing applies.
This was probably answered before so if anyone has a previous answer by Toady I'd be more than happy to hear it.At least world gen allows for new religions to spring up and recruit followers, which implies those characters can at least adopt religions, and megabeasts have attracted worshipers for a long time.
Can dwarves change/adopt religion? Do sermons make dwarves more inclined to a different religion? Can dwarves lose faith in a god?
A post by Toady the other day said you could hold sermons as an adventurer, but that it was rather pointless (which implies that part doesn't do anything useful).
I've gotten the impression religion isn't that powerful in fortress mode yet (lack of time, as usual), but obviously, Toady is the one who knows what the state is.
What are the requirements for a non-player fortress/civ breaching the underworld? It has been observed to happen multiple times in the same fortress (link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175434.msg8082964#msg8082964)), but could this happen to the previously emerged demon civ, without any intermediate take-over?I'm looking at a world with 20 Circus breache (some at the same site). Two of those were caused by goblin civs (goblin civs that were both created by Dwarf circus breaches). They're different civs so kill each other and take over as you'd expect.
Necromancers have mastered the secrets of life and death and are now immortal, crazy, book writing, lich type things.Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Well, necromancers don't, so I would assume the same thing applies.
Failed experiments are poor folk who got turned into ugly beasts. Why would one equal the other?
Necromancers have mastered the secrets of life and death and are now immortal, crazy, book writing, lich type things.Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Well, necromancers don't, so I would assume the same thing applies.
Failed experiments are poor folk who got turned into ugly beasts. Why would one equal the other?
Because they're made by necromancers?
You can enable conversations to show up in the announcements via the announcement.txt file, they're virtually the same as the adventure mode convos. (With the exception that dorfs can actually make friends this way, and I am not sure if adv. npcs actually make friends if you leave them alone long enough. They didn't in .44 at the least.)
Necromancers have mastered the secrets of life and death and are now immortal, crazy, book writing, lich type things.Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Well, necromancers don't, so I would assume the same thing applies.
Failed experiments are poor folk who got turned into ugly beasts. Why would one equal the other?
Because they're made by necromancers?
I don't think that's really how logic works. If a necromancer wanted and toady had implemented it a necromancer could totally create something that isnt undead even though it wouldnt be very thematic since they are associated with dead things. But its doable in any case. Theres no specific limitation there. Someone would have to confirm that no_sleep and no_eat etc. are tokens on these things, but it seems like it makes sense, experiments are technically undead right do they not have the NOT_LIVING tag? But they could in fact still have to eat and such toady would def have to answer that or someone would need to do some raw checking.
For example , they could totally be able to die of old age, we wouldn't know until we look at the raws. Being made by a certain night creature does not automagically give you the tokens of that night creature. Its easy to add interactions that dont do anything like that.
Necromancers have mastered the secrets of life and death and are now immortal, crazy, book writing, lich type things.Probably the last question from me for this month- When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
Well, necromancers don't, so I would assume the same thing applies.
Failed experiments are poor folk who got turned into ugly beasts. Why would one equal the other?
Because they're made by necromancers?
I don't think that's really how logic works. If a necromancer wanted and toady had implemented it a necromancer could totally create something that isnt undead even though it wouldnt be very thematic since they are associated with dead things. But its doable in any case. Theres no specific limitation there. Someone would have to confirm that no_sleep and no_eat etc. are tokens on these things, but it seems like it makes sense, experiments are technically undead right do they not have the NOT_LIVING tag? But they could in fact still have to eat and such toady would def have to answer that or someone would need to do some raw checking.
For example , they could totally be able to die of old age, we wouldn't know until we look at the raws. Being made by a certain night creature does not automagically give you the tokens of that night creature. Its easy to add interactions that dont do anything like that.
Even if it's not a logical requirement that things made by necromancers don't have the needs of living organisms, it still makes sense that it would be one of the first things a necromancer would remove assuming they have the ability IMO. After all, what's more efficient than a servant that never needs to eat, drink, or sleep?
At the same time though, it probably doesn't make sense that every last one of them would have this trait if they are indeed failed experiments.
I am not sure if dwarven hillocks always have tavern keepers. You need to make sure to find a drinking mound, at the least. And proper taverns with sleeping places and such are typically only in the big sites (towns/big forest retreats/mountain fortresses/dark forts).
I am not sure if dwarven hillocks always have tavern keepers. You need to make sure to find a drinking mound, at the least. And proper taverns with sleeping places and such are typically only in the big sites (towns/big forest retreats/mountain fortresses/dark forts).
They definitely didnt have tavern keepers in the previous version and drinking mounds didnt even have alcohol.
I am not sure if dwarven hillocks always have tavern keepers. You need to make sure to find a drinking mound, at the least. And proper taverns with sleeping places and such are typically only in the big sites (towns/big forest retreats/mountain fortresses/dark forts).
They definitely didnt have tavern keepers in the previous version and drinking mounds didnt even have alcohol.
I’m always attempting to play the adventure mode with each new release and I’m always utterly confused and eventually turned off completely. Truly hope that buildings will soon stop being empty husks with no furniture and become a living, plausible environment. The shallowness of sites is in such a terrible contrast with the absolutely great world gen, and unfortunately much more visible to the player. :/
Loving the new release and looking forward to the Steam release.Probably in exactly the same way as Fortress Mode (as far as the sex part goes anyway). That is, invisibly. Easily managed while passing time while in the company of a spouse/lover in Adventurer or while retired.
Given that you're going to be selling DF Premium commercially on Steam and have a professional publisher I feel the need to ask, have you or Kitfox given any thought to how you will implement adventure mode romance, relationships and reproduction?
I'm asking this because one of the things I've seen either added in the based game of damn near every RPG or game with RPG-ish elements is the romance options/companions, Mass effect, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, The Elder Scrolls, Fable, Stardew Valley, Divinity: Original Sin, Crusader Kings 2, The Guild, The Sims 1-4 etc.
I just can't help but feel that there is going to be a clamouring for that option once DF goes mainSteam.
For the record my vote is for the Sims style "Woohoo" but only because I know the very real risks with anything more.... detailed...
You mentioned on Dwarf Fortress Roundtable podcast that you and Zach had a multi-day Transport Tycoon session. Could you elaborate a bit on that? I'm curious as to how you got that started and what the ultimate end result was.
With the graphics mode for the steam version, will you make changing tilesets easier so you won't have to basically update all the save games as well so they use correct tiles?
Also, more importantly, what are some optimizations you can do in game's coding so FPS death, if not becoming a thing of the past, can be way less common? Note that I mean performance issues during game play, not anything related to world/history generation (for that I'm a patient person and can let it generate over night).
Not originally by me, just found those lying around and thought you could shed some light. That being so:
1. Do abstract entity populations have any impact on historical figure genetic profiles, or is it limited to the historical figures?
2. Do genes besides colour have dominance or recessiveness?
3. Are personality goals limited to one per creature?
(...Yeah, not entirely relevant, I know. But a lone copyeditor like myself just occasionally runs into something they can't quite seem to verify or fact-check on their own, really.)
not sure if anyone asked this, but is there a way you can make the rate, and reload time on range weapons a token so we can edit and customize different type of weapons?
Are werebeasts also among the teleporting (mega)beasts, or do they actually path the world like visitors do?
As far as the graphical release is concerned, you've mentioned that initially there will be no Mac version. Does that mean the Mac version will be put on semi-permanent hold, or will there be an effort to hit the three OS versions in some subsequent release pre-Big Wait?
Given the way that adventuring can reveal map features to your dwarves by expanding non-settlement knowledge of the world for the fortress mode world map, can we extract information about places from interrogated prisoners or is it restricted to related rumors only leading you to unmarked areas and tidbits of info about persons?
The kind of clauses we already have about invisible caves being un-raidable without a rumor leading players there apply for instance (without having the config off and seeing caves all the time), and the existing state of slabs and their guardians having loose oddly broadly known map co-ordinates.
Since Steam isn't too keen on version numbers that start with a zero, do you think they'd accept just moving the first decimal point 2 digits to the right but otherwise keep the same version system? So version 0.44.12 would become 44.12 etc. I know eventually Dwarf Fortress will drift away from the list of features that helps determine this number, but it's really cool to have some rough percentage of included features so prominently visible like it has been.
"(Undead lieutenants) are under the control of the necromancer, but can retain much of their old identity."
What does this translate into gameplay-wise? Can a sufficiently good/strong identity break free from a sufficiently weak necromancer?
Are friendship and grudges depend on personal traits or they are totally random? Like dwarves with opposing personal values are more possible to become rivals than those who have similar.
Probably already been asked/answered but when you return to it later, do you intend to add angry mobs to go after corrupt officials? Will we then be able to tell people about the corruption and incite them to do something about it?
Most random npc residents dont even care about invaders conquering their site enough to participate in an insurrection now, in adventure mode at least. How if at all has that changed?
So, in the world outside the fortress, religious leaders are causing strife, riots, vandalism and all sorts of bad stuff. But in-fortress listening to a sermon you disagree with is a "mild inconvenience". It's a bit contradictory. I assume this is a temporary compromise until stress is working well enough to add more bad stuff and in-fortress strife?
Not sure if it was asked before but what will be the copyrights for game soundtracks? I'm asking because when the game is on Steam I'll start making a series of tutorials as i did before and i used DF soundtrack as background music for it. Will i be able to do it or youtube can potentially ban me for it?
Quote from: FAADoes the economy update for the next version mean that items in the game world will finally be made of metals that make sense? As in, mostly of iron/steel and not platinum or gold all the time?
EDIT: Why won’t DF use mapgen system similar to the one in Cataclysm: DDA? It’s very simple and results in hundreds of structure types, each much more believable than anything DF offers atm.Quote from: EkatonThe question, I suppose is: can something like that be done in DF, within the constrains of its engine? The way it works in CDDA is wonderful and insanely easy and fast to code. If the simplicity can be replicated, it could make development faster and smoother.
Will food spoilage make it to the game?
When dwarves talking to each other is working what does that look like in the game? For example when walking past each other in a hall, is it sort of 'Unit1 greets Unit2', 'Unit2 insults Unit1' then they both continue on? Or is it more in depth like 'Unit1 mentions event/histfig/item to Unit2', 'Unit2 responds directly to mentioned thing', 'Unit1 says "it was inevitable"'?
Assuming they actually say things, does what they say depend on what their knowledge/opinions are of each other? Is this different from when they are specifically Socializing?
...
is the way people talk in adventure mode the exact same way they talk in fort mode? Since I've not seen any way to record or observe that these conversations are happening in fort mode I didn't know if they happen the same way or in some a simplified/abstracted way. What are the future plans for how the player will be able to interact with or observe talking in fort mode?
Is there a plan for adding in further integration of plots and intrigues to adventure mode? Can we expect more plot-related goodness before the Steam release?
Will villain/plotting networks eventually seek non-adversarial means of acquiring certain goals? For example, providing certain services to acquire assets, working together with ideological or political allies to accomplish a mutually desired goal, or exchanging proprietary information or craft knowledge as a service?
It would definitely be interesting if we were able to intercept a criminal network operating out of our fortress, and decide against dismantling them, instead directly negotiating terms with them and/or sponsoring certain operations if we deem their goals or needs useful.
Quote from: ZM5In regards to the new summoning interaction, is there a token for summoning a specific creature (or creatures with a specific creature class) or is it only random and token-based for now? Similarly for the summoning area - Teneb noticed that with the random location parameter the summoned creatures tend to fall from the sky and occasionally take damage as a result.
They also seem to poof out of existence when they walk too far away from the summoner, is there a way to prevent that?
Also, what arguments does IE_ITEM_QUALITY in the shrine effects interaction take besides ARTIFACT? Same question in regards to IE_ADD_WEATHER besides THICK_FOG.
Thanks for the update! I'd be a tad disappointed if there isnt a way to summon specific creatures yet, but the new healing tokens, item summoning, edged ranged interaction attacks and the propel abilities definitely open up a lot of exciting possibilities!Quote from: UntrustedlifeAnyway to add summon interactions for specific creatures? IE by defining a new CREATURE_CLASS ?
Instead of just deciding based on presence or absence of tags?
The below doesn't work: It doenst error out but it doesn't avoid spawning mammals.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If not (or even if so) what are the limitations? Can it use any token or just certain tokens, etc?Quote from: pikachu17Why did you not list in the file changes txt file the new tokens in the interaction examples folder? You didn't list the unhardcodeening of DEMON, UNIQUE_DEMON, or FEATURE_BEAST either.
When does a medium blessing happen?
Why can SUMMON_UNIT be limited by flags, but seemingly not by creature classes?
Can interactions change the weather to something other than HEAVY_FOG?
Is there any way for a modder to make the create item and upgrade item interactions work as a creature action?
What do SKILL_ROLL_RANGE, SKILL_IP, and ATTRIBUTE_IP do?
Also, has anyone put onto the bug tracker where if you make a creature have the HEALING_BLESSING interaction, when they heal someone, they won't appear healed on a 'l'ook or 'v'iew, but will be healed, and on the 'h'ealth screen will show the the various tissues healed but nothing about them? I have no real idea how to use the bug tracker.
What does "all creatures w/ spit + animal people variation get it" (line 24) in the new file changes file mean? Is it describing which creatures get the pet interaction?
1. Do any of the profession background skills our adventurer can now possess have any means of using them/training them?
2. Are there any special things our adventurers can do with the new array of possible starting items such as extracts and tools?
3. I played an escaped experiment and went to a necromancer tower, the necromancers and experiments were fine with me but the corrupted ones killed me, is this working as you intended?
4. Will you be releasing small patches for this update in the coming days as bug reports come in?
Looks like evil regions spread pretty quickly in worldgen, does this mean maybe we can see them change in game?
It seems to me that a large amount of the "lag" in heavily populated sites (eg human cities when next to a marketplace or highly populated tavern/whatever building) in vanilla dwarf fortress comes from the conversations happening that you dont actually see until they are close enough to hear. Have you ever considered reducing the amount of off screen conversation to speed up traversing these places?
Are you going to wait until Premium DF is done and released before getting back to any of the Villains features, or is it enough to set up the graphics framework to allow the artists to test and improve their work before looking at some of the postponed features?
I've noticed that when I played as an escaped experiment boogey men didn't attack me when I was alone at night, is this intended?
Any particular reason why we get the "you must leave this site before you can rest" (or whatever message it is) when we try to rest in friendly human forts?
Just curious: why are failed experiments represented by the letter "H" in-game as opposed to the "Ñ/ñ" tile used for other night creatures?
Seem to have a problem trying to ask for quests/report them to my characters superiors, the option is just not in the list. There is a 'hidden' option where the character says they are confused, but other than the usual options thats about it. What am i missing/doing wrong?
I noticed you have been doing different updates on steam versus on your own devlog lately? (eg today(1/30/2020) you talked about the new bugs on steam but didn't do a dev log on your website about it and you have done this a couple times now) Any plans to change it so you post the same thing in both or will i have to continue checking both from now on to get all the latest dev news?
Can dwarves change/adopt religion? Do sermons make dwarves more inclined to a different religion? Can dwarves lose faith in a god?
Worldgen relationships question:
Lovers get married, but do childhood friends ever later become lovers? That seems like it should be a thing on occasion.
When I was playing an escaped necromancer experiment I traveled around for a few days and didn't get hungry thirsty or tired, do escaped necromancer experiments not need to eat, drink or sleep?
How does the new RANDOM_NEARBY_LOCATION interaction token argument work? That is to say, what checks are performed to determine whether a particular tile is a valid spawn point? Are creature characteristics (such as the ability to fly) taken into account with regards to summoning interactions using this? What happens if such an interaction were to be performed by a flying creature surrounded by nothing but open space when the unit being summoned is not a flier?
Are altars and dice meant to be adventure only, or for both modes? In fortress mode they can be bought at embark, made in the craftdwarf's workshop, and found in reclaimed worldgen forts, but altars at least cannot be built in fortress mode.
Are dwarf necromancers intended to openly arrive as regular migrants in fort mode? I've watched two very funny streams with multiple necromancer migrants, but they didn't end well.
What are the requirements for a non-player fortress/civ breaching the underworld? It has been observed to happen multiple times in the same fortress (link), but could this happen to the previously emerged demon civ, without any intermediate take-over?
Gotta get a couple more in before the opportunity closes:
How free-willed are the current intelligent undead? (I remember a long time ago you said one of the big essential things about them is that they could, in fact run off and start a farm, or bandit group etc)
Will we ever see any night creatures akin to a Ring Wraith? Eg a night creature or monstrous magical thing associated with certain artifacts who hunt the current user of it.
Why do the new ghouls and intelligent undead have [SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:1000:0]
What does the [EXPERIMENT_ONLY]interaction token which always appears alongside [I_SOURCE:EXPERIMENT] do? You would think [I_SOURCE:EXPERIMENT] would be all thats needed here. So [EXPERIMENT_ONLY] must do something special.
I don't know how often this persists, but in most worlds I generated in 0.47, other races replaced primary races that built those structures. Most hillocks, for example, are full of goblins, to the point where in my last world, most of them had no dwarves at all, which seems to have caused the problem with no innkeepers spawning in them. Do you plan to introduce harsher restrictions on race immigration? Perhaps xenophilia-xenophobia could be a good civ value as well.
I played as a necromancer in the new update and raised a pale stalker, the pale stalker then killed me, is this a bug? If not how do I get my undead lieutenants to obey me?
I wonder if there's a new age name for a world with only necromancers and their undead slaves alive
The new necromancers are capable of corrupting an entire pocket-sized world so it should be possible
Are player adventurers able to assume identities from necromancer groups? I have been on a quest to find the creator of a created race as that race but when I assume an identity I can't pick the group that the necromancer belongs to.
Given you've very recently changed the screen for temples, can you please add two pieces of information to it? Specifically:
What are the god's spheres?
How many worshippers of the god are in the fort?
I can get that information from the new location menu but not from the established location menu and it drives me crazy.
Given that you're going to be selling DF Premium commercially on Steam and have a professional publisher I feel the need to ask, have you or Kitfox given any thought to how you will implement adventure mode romance, relationships and reproduction?
I'm asking this because one of the things I've seen either added in the based game of damn near every RPG or game with RPG-ish elements is the romance options/companions, Mass effect, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, The Elder Scrolls, Fable, Stardew Valley, Divinity: Original Sin, Crusader Kings 2, The Guild, The Sims 1-4 etc.
I just can't help but feel that there is going to be a clamouring for that option once DF goes mainSteam.
For the record my vote is for the Sims style "Woohoo" but only because I know the very real risks with anything more.... detailed...
Are you not showing the night-creature descriptions in Adventurer character creation on purpose ('cos, "doh I'm a useless blob" is Fun), or is it something you haven't gotten around to doing yet?
And will experiments get variations (skin, hair colour, eyes, etc). It's kind of sad to see their completely blank "Appearance" tab. Even gorlaks get a brief eye/skin description there.
for a long time marksdwarves (I only know fort mode) behave in an, admittedly darven, stupid manner. Even while still having bolts, they actively seek to engage enemies in melee rather than firing from a distance. This can lead to stunning acrobatics at time to even reach the enemy.
Any chance we could see a fix to that behavior? Even if in an open field, I'd expect marksdwarves to first fire all their bolts before running up to the enemy, unless they're being attacked in melee.
for a long time marksdwarves (I only know fort mode) behave in an, admittedly darven, stupid manner. Even while still having bolts, they actively seek to engage enemies in melee rather than firing from a distance. This can lead to stunning acrobatics at time to even reach the enemy.
Any chance we could see a fix to that behavior? Even if in an open field, I'd expect marksdwarves to first fire all their bolts before running up to the enemy, unless they're being attacked in melee.
The problem comes when they run out of bolts.
for a long time marksdwarves (I only know fort mode) behave in an, admittedly darven, stupid manner. Even while still having bolts, they actively seek to engage enemies in melee rather than firing from a distance. This can lead to stunning acrobatics at time to even reach the enemy.
Any chance we could see a fix to that behavior? Even if in an open field, I'd expect marksdwarves to first fire all their bolts before running up to the enemy, unless they're being attacked in melee.
I've noticed that when well trained (legendary in most categories), they tend to work as expected. My marksdwarves will stand a few tiles back in an open field and just shoot as the melee squad keeps the target at bay. And my lone marksdwarves will shoot, run away, shoot, and repeat until they are forced into melee.
How trained are your marksdwarves?
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8083829#msg8083829
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8083830#msg8083830
Yeah, the replies there are about all we have, just the current dev notes. If things like hugging and so forth join, uh, pet animal and spit in the interaction list, that wouldn't surprise me, but I doubt it would get incredibly far beyond that in terms of those options in local play. Having a short 'wait screen' style bar pass for the rest is fine, probably. Though, yeah, we haven't made specific plans or had Kitfox conversations about this.
Probably in exactly the same way as Fortress Mode (as far as the sex part goes anyway). That is, invisibly. Easily managed while passing time while in the company of a spouse/lover in Adventurer or while retired.
As for actual romance and such, Toady has threatened bad poetry recitals and there are pages of suggestions over in the suggestions forum on procgen cultural courting rituals.
While it's in the dev notes, it's all so far in the future that it's not likely to have been considered in such great detail yet.
Yes, by the time adventure mode romance is implemented it's likely to be against a backdrop of full myth, magic, and law frameworks.
(snip)First time I've had to do this for somebody else, your text does however need proper colouring, so the eyes of the One Toad may discern queries from the usual babble around those parts. (Just color=limegreen in square brackets, then close as usual.)
Summoning and conjuration are insane godsends, but will we see any adjustments before the Big Wait?
Three come to mind for items:
First, temporary item summons to prevent potential clutter. The tag exists for creature summons but not items. This could be a problem for fort mode if you have something that, say, conjures a vast surplus of swords.
Second, equipping items. Behavior tests so far have units failing to grab/grasp/wear conjured weapons and equipment. I surmise this was never meant to be given to non-players, but it could be handy.
Third, summoning items in random/target locations, as with unit summons, doesn't seem to work. They can only be spawned on top of existing units, which has led to only one warfare application so far - conjuring water and lava on top of a creature simultaneously to "obsidianize" them. With point-and-shoot targeting we might see more peaceful uses, like wall building... or some Cask of Amontillado business.
(/snip)
Hi. I answered based on the times Toady has discussed the matter (podcast, maybe dftalk, fotf, etc). And, as Toady said, that's all there is, random speculation.
He also already answered the question about friends becoming lovers.
And Adventurers don't have romance yet. And won't until it's implemented far in the future. Many, many things happen in Worldgen that don't happen in game yet.They all need to make it into the game at some point, romance isn't somehow special that way.
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Mage beast and semi-mega beast reproduce during world gen, how do they go about their reproduction? do giants form relationships Off screen/invisibly or is it just mindless mating/reproduction?
Since some animals do form pair bonds for life would it make sense for at least some Mega beasts and Semi-Mega beast to form relationships and track family members so they can seek revenge or render assistance to each other or are they intended to not have such motivations?
:
:Intelligent semi mega beasts presumably use the same breeding model as other "wild" intelligent creatures (such as troglodytes), i.e. the animal breeding model. This can be seen when a group camps in a cavern. I don't know if anyone has tried to set up any breeding programs for intelligent semi mega beasts, though, but it has probably been done.
Mage beast and semi-mega beast reproduce during world gen, how do they go about their reproduction? do giants form relationships Off screen/invisibly or is it just mindless mating/reproduction?
Since some animals do form pair bonds for life would it make sense for at least some Mega beasts and Semi-Mega beast to form relationships and track family members so they can seek revenge or render assistance to each other or are they intended to not have such motivations?
:
Item materials - as there are seemingly no restrictions on item materials, the game creates immersion-breaking gold, silver or tetrahedrite barrels in taverns, and every table/chair is made of different material. Even kobold forts have golden tables, even though there is no other loot to speak of - they lack weapons and are semi-naked. Do you plan to restrict materials used for things like chairs or tables to materials that are appropriate, and make them more uniform?
Item materials - as there are seemingly no restrictions on item materials, the game creates immersion-breaking gold, silver or tetrahedrite barrels in taverns, and every table/chair is made of different material. Even kobold forts have golden tables, even though there is no other loot to speak of - they lack weapons and are semi-naked. Do you plan to restrict materials used for things like chairs or tables to materials that are appropriate, and make them more uniform?Hi. You've now asked the same question with variations 3 times. Why don't sites have realistic furniture/materials?
I don't have a "version of the question". I could dig out and quote the other questions he posted on the topic, but that might make me seem a bit more stalkerish than I already do. :)Hi. You've now asked the same question with variations 3 times. Why don't sites have realistic furniture/materials?
Your version of the question is overly vague. The original gives 3 examples: Tetrahedrite and other ores are stone, which make large pots in DF, not barrels. The material selection for furniture is hodge-podge (more an aesthetics issue than realism.) Kobolds don't have access to masonry (but as you mentioned, the prior owners of the fort built the furniture.)
I don't have a "version of the question". I could dig out and quote the other questions he posted on the topic, but that might make me seem a bit more stalkerish than I already do. :)I hadn't noticed he was the one who posted before, which Toady already answered. Thought you were talking just about the most recent post.
Why don't statues in temples seem to curse me when I topple them anymore? Have you removed that for some reasom?
Yes, it was nerfed to avoid nonsense with religious persecution (02/06/2019).
All current mega beasts are of animal intelligence, and so, presumably, breed the same way as animals, i.e. viable male impregnates viable female when opportunity arises. It's worked with the few cases I've had opportunity to try with captured pairs.
Intelligent semi mega beasts presumably use the same breeding model as other "wild" intelligent creatures (such as troglodytes), i.e. the animal breeding model. This can be seen when a group camps in a cavern. I don't know if anyone has tried to set up any breeding programs for intelligent semi mega beasts, though, but it has probably been done.
Fully intelligent megabeasts or otherwise for 44.12 rely on marriage rules and it happens offscreen in w.g, only slow learners like 'Giants' rely on animal-level mating given the practices you can partake in to breed troglodytes and trolls by breeding them on a chain or in cages near compatible mates. Though its fully possible now on 47.01 that cyclopian family groups could be introduced to one another in fortress mode through controlled introduction to one another on a chain in the hopes of them becoming lovers, though its not much of a existance.
The purposes for breeding cyclopses would be a difficult lengthy process, that isn't nearly as productive as breeding trolls (putting in pits, slow down siegers, long lifespan for cage exhibits) for albiet a cyclops has much more potential (once a few years has elapsed) to be used as defensive failguard or guardian of a pit. Taking into account megabeast caps too.
- The civilized concept of marriage not being applicable to megabeasts and uncivilized creatures and thinking about life-bond/relationship status of a mate -monogomy is a nice thought but probably warrants a suggestion thread instead
It really is weird. Other site types can happily combine variable positions and raw positions from my testing, but dark fortresses can't. That's in addition to the CHAT_WORTHY crash (and I think the other one was two or more LAW_MAKING positions).
Will we get a more better representation on how the Dark Fortress Civs Position system works? Modding wise, it seems to have become close to being unplayable as an idea for a "All Civs playable" type mods.
Rocs can probably hold grudges... We're just not able to see the thoughts of animals and non fortress members, but they do exist and can be viewed using DFHack scripts. Animal thoughts are usually fairly simple, though, but they do exist.
It really is weird. Other site types can happily combine variable positions and raw positions from my testing, but dark fortresses can't. That's in addition to the CHAT_WORTHY crash (and I think the other one was two or more LAW_MAKING positions).
Will we get a more better representation on how the Dark Fortress Civs Position system works? Modding wise, it seems to have become close to being unplayable as an idea for a "All Civs playable" type mods.
'Risen' fortresses overtook by the underworld clowns are officially listed as 'Goblins' in the embark neighbour screen, rather than seperate so its most likely a conflict of identity where the risen fortresses must be generated with identical to goblin default raws, or be forced into only rising with no pre-made unique-demon towers (as other modders have shown recently by setting their sites to 0 and only having goblins emerge later with their clown masters in the genesis of their civ)
Im still checking it out, but even with the revised method of making goblins only emerge later in deep events, any infringement upon custom positions with CUSTOM_LAW_GIVER used in variable_positions: or attempting to overlap a existing one (which could be done safely in previous 44.12) immediately recieves a crash upon world generation to abort with no errorlog.
Quote from: PlumpHelmetManJust curious: why are failed experiments represented by the letter "H" in-game as opposed to the "Ñ/ñ" tile used for other night creatures?
Untrustedlife: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8083008#msg8083008
PlumpHelmetMan: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8083013#msg8083013
There should be a variety of letters. I think it uses H for at-least-as-large-as-people humanoids? This is of course confusing, and the whole reason we went with U instead of H for humans was to have less confusion. But we are just out of letters now, and Ñ is also confusing because there are many different kinds of experiments in a given tower oftentimes, and they need to be distinguishable (as often as possible.) The real night creature haunting DF may be the pigeonhole principle...
I've been generating a lot of worlds in the new version, and I've been noticing that Dwarven civilizations are having a really hard time at sticking around,especially in longer histories. The new digging too deep and greedily events, Powerful necromancers and other civs having infinite lifespans seems to be really taking a toll. Are there any plans to buff dwarfs during world gen? Perhaps unique dwarven events that are positive?
Is there a way to make summoning not summon or only summon creatures of a specific creature class? If not, why not?
For summons, for specific creatures, according to this code you should be able to send in "[CREATURE:<creature token>:<caste token>]". Using "ALL" or "ANY" or "DEFAULT" for the caste token lets all of the castes in. But you can't currently use this tag more than once per effect. So you can do something at least, though it can be improved. And there is not class support currently. The flags usually refer to the creature/caste tokens that don't have arguments, and it supports about 180 of those for castes, which should be most of them, but doesn't include anything complicated that involves a number or string (like a class.)
The new necromancer minions with magic abilities had me wondering - do you think in the future you might add a more magical alternative to the FBs, with crazier/more unnatural appearances like [SNIP]
Likewise, do you think depending on how magic is generated per world, that Demons could become even more of a threat - like, say, the classic wall strategies becoming useless due to Demons sometimes having the ability to teleport or become intangible? Just this small taste of magic is making me so giddy for the future!
Interesting, interesting! I almost wonder if, in some worlds, demons would end up closer to spirits or ghosts like some portrayals rather than tangible entities.Meant to quote you above ^
Is USAGE_HINT:MAJOR_BLESSING a thing, and if so, where can you find it?
Is USAGE_HINT:MAJOR_BLESSING a thing, and if so, how can you make one happen to your adventurer?Based on my findings, major_blessing is not a thing at all currently - and there really wouldn't be a mechanic for them to be granted, at the moment.
Now that people can open the circus, will wee see adamantine artifacts during w.g ?No. At least not in the many, many worlds I've made since 47.01 hit.
I just checked out the ingame manual again for once in a long while, and just noticed again the cool symbols you've got set and unused for magical items.
[snip]
I mainly ask because this line has been in the manual for a very long time now, i think, and it would be super easy for anyone to forget! I was a little surprised in retrospect that books with strictly-magical secrets don't get those symbols yet, as they currently are.
@Shonai_Dweller : i noticed too ! Hence the "will" !Yeah, but *will* can mean between now and 2050 in the current development schedule. So, "yeah, probably, no specific timeline" will be the only possible answer.
@Shonai_Dweller : i noticed too ! Hence the "will" !I imagine stuff like if worldgen dwarves are allowed to make stuff from candy, then surely goblins unleashed through a big layer of candy will have access to it too. And should they know how to use it? And should they plot to kidnap and enslave dwarves who do? Will that be too much Fun to be attacked by a demon lead wave of candy-clad gobbos? And how about those humans who move into abandoned candy mines? And Kobolds? Lots to think about, hopefully see something, but not unexpected if we don't just yet.
Will the poor ability of dwarfs in making friends be tweaked before moving onto the Steam release?Work is going to happen in parallel. There are lots of issues which need to be fixed as part of Steam development arc. This, most likely being one of them. So....no....and yes, depending on what you mean.
What I mean is if this issue will be addressed before moving on to work on the Steam release. I guess I left out the 'to work' but generally that would be understood as implied, if I had meant the release of the Steam version I would have said something like before releasing on Steam.Yes, and besides these crash bug quick fixes, Steam development is imminent (and will have started by the time fotf rolls around). But, this time, that doesn't actually matter as he's doing fixes in parallel.
Pretty sure Toady will read these messages before then, but happy to hear what ended up happening.Fixing up the game (somewhat) and addressing (some) long-time issues is Steam related stuff. Let's not forget that, it's not just a "let's add graphics" arc.
I'm asking specifically because this next couple of weeks is the window where it might get addressed before being swamped in the morass of the Steam related stuff. At that point stuff will naturally be driven by the other people working on that project who have other concerns that are unrelated to the friendship issues.
I remember far back Toady talking about knowledge systems near the beggining of when he was working upon libraries, and that scholars would embark upon putting their new contraptions of which there were only a set number of discoveries that could be made in the world into use in fortress mode as well as guarding knowledge they had obtained already, things being lost and taken by force accounted for. Discoveries do happen as momentous events hailing the writing of a new book, like subjects on toxicology for medicine, but they have no mechanical meaning other than being good reading.
- So to pipe up about some mentioned examples there's no feudal-cyberpunk gear-operated prosthetics (sourced from one of threetoe's stories, i believe short of the arm, migration, plots & religion has already delivered us there) or astrology tracking machines just yet. (i forget but its a named discovery subject)
Could you clarify whether there are going to be intermittent bugfix releases during the Big Wait (or even the Steam Wait)?Yes. Big Wait periodic bug fix releases for major crashes was confirmed a long time ago before Steam was ever a thing.
apologies if this has been asked before, but are we ever going to see the option to generate more history *after* a game has been played in a world? for example, if I have a fortress that makes a really valuable artifact or wages some war, I would want to see how it impacts the world on a larger scale, over the years.Last mention of this was that it's really, really hard to pack everything back together into a state that you can restart worldgen at the kind of speed initial worldgen runs at. But not impossible and is something Toady wants to try one day. Don't expect anything soon though.
apologies if this has been asked before, but are we ever going to see the option to generate more history *after* a game has been played in a world? for example, if I have a fortress that makes a really valuable artifact or wages some war, I would want to see how it impacts the world on a larger scale, over the years.It's a topic that's brought up regularly...
Hello, Toady!Lime green text for questions to Toady.
I have a question about Steam release.
As you, maybe, know, russian comminuty managed to localise Dwarf Fortress into russian languge.
May be you can inpliment other localisations as official? DF is great, but some time it's too hard to understand it, if you don't know English.
Does beekeeping make more trees and plants grow in your fortress, because of pollination? If not, then why do the deserts around fortresses bloom vigorously?Alliances:
How do the new alliances work in worldgen? Leader personalities? Ethics? Civ values? The old factions of snatcher civ vs. thief civ vs. civ with both vs. civ with neither? Evil races vs. non-evil races?
Alliances:
Everybody Vs KILL_NEUTRAL:REQUIRED (gobbos, necros in vanilla). Fairly sure the reverse isn't true though (so no goblin civilizations joining forces).
Kill_neutral:required implies they kill members of other goblin civs, being neutral, so wouldn't make alliances. Nothing Toady ever said about alliances implied that goblin civs were meant to gang up with other goblin civs or necros against the threat of Elvish invasion. So, not bugged, just kind of a limited system right now.
Nah, I've been wondering about these kinds of things too, but all that was said was that at some point in the future topics would actually affect the capabilities of a civ.
I mean, the dev page does mention maps for adventurers, and what is a boats arc without treasure maps, and I guess that much like with books there should be a proper industry for creating these maps, but there hasn't been anything said about it. Similarly, the various magic types mentioned do have types that interrelate with the mundane topics, like astronomy (planets), alchemy(potions), mathematics(ritual diagrams), etc, but there hasn't been much said about it either.
The orientation token doesn't seem to affect affairs and the like from what I've seen in my worlds - got most civilized creatures set to be only interested in commited relationships, yet I still see people becoming lovers with someone while already married to someone else.
The orientation token doesn't seem to affect affairs and the like from what I've seen in my worlds - got most civilized creatures set to be only interested in commited relationships, yet I still see people becoming lovers with someone while already married to someone else.
Did you try modifying LUST_PROPENSITY? Just a guess.
I still have to try the lust/love propensity edits out a bit more.The orientation token doesn't seem to affect affairs and the like from what I've seen in my worlds - got most civilized creatures set to be only interested in commited relationships, yet I still see people becoming lovers with someone while already married to someone else.
Did you try modifying LUST_PROPENSITY? Just a guess.
Id say a mix of love and lust propensity, I have a dwarf who drifts between relationships through their job as a Tavern keeper and copious amounts of alcohol being in contact with very open and very drunk dwarves a lot. Though for the more conservative players its a pity there's no additional controls on a creature or entity level to encourage/discourage relationship couplings.
1) How does DF interpret the species "eagle man"?
2) At the time of having children, would they lay eggs or become pregnant?
Whereas, within the animal kingdom, a dwarf is a mammal and a bird is an oviparous being ...
1) How does DF interpret the species "eagle man"?
2) At the time of having children, would they lay eggs or become pregnant?
3) Could there be different combinations (60% human, 40% eagle) for each created world? (I have mentioned the eagle man so far only as an example).
4) Are mythological creatures (such as dragons, forgotten beasts ...) somehow included in the animal hierarchy?
[SHEAR_YIELD:600000] used cotton
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:600000] used cotton
Do you remember where you sourced these numbers? The only other materials defined in the raws that match these characteristics at first pale are things like steel and adamantine, and plant thread has precipitously low attributes in every other characteristic.4) Are mythological creatures (such as dragons, forgotten beasts ...) somehow included in the animal hierarchy?
4) Are mythological creatures (such as dragons, forgotten beasts ...) somehow included in the animal hierarchy?
Good question. Current Dwarf Fortress doesn’t really have any notion of what an animal is; it does have the [MUNDANE] creature token marking RL creatures, but it only affects the age name. By that merit dragons etc. are not animals, and humans are.
Looking forwards though, some implementation of it is clearly planned. After all, the mythgen demos had ”the animals” as an existing actor, distinct from primordial forces and the intelligent races. Considering the supposed variability of the mythgen system it would be nice seeing some worlds where certain ”mythological beings” e.g. dragons were considered a subcategory of animals. I don’t think they would always be, though.
Quote from: ZM5Hate to ask another question so soon after the last one, but is there a token for summoning a creature onto a specific tile rather than randomly? Been trying with CONTEXT_LOCATION and CONTEXT_CREATURE_OR_LOCATION but it always seems to pop the summon onto the caster's tile - not sure if I'm setting things up correctly or if thats a current limitation.
EDIT: Before I forget - whats the token that marks a creature as a necromancer experiment? I don't think I've seen it in extracted raws yet.Quote from: pikachu17I_EFFECT:CREATE_ITEM can't be used on CONTEXT_LOCATION, just CONTEXT_CREATURE, and even on creatures, it only creates the item at their feet, not in their hands. Is there a reason for this beyond you just didn't around to doing it?Quote from: ZM5Got a question myself - what defines a creature as an experiment? By that I mean, the mutants created from the "horrible experiments" event type, with names like "Hand of Dastot" or "Eye of Urist". I've noticed [NIGHT_CREATURE_NIGHTMARE] is a token, but I didn't see something like [NIGHT_CREATURE_EXPERIMENT] or [NIGHT_CREATURE_MUTANT].
for a long time marksdwarves (I only know fort mode) behave in an, admittedly darven, stupid manner. Even while still having bolts, they actively seek to engage enemies in melee rather than firing from a distance. This can lead to stunning acrobatics at time to even reach the enemy.
Any chance we could see a fix to that behavior? Even if in an open field, I'd expect marksdwarves to first fire all their bolts before running up to the enemy, unless they're being attacked in melee.
Summoning and conjuration are insane godsends, but will we see any adjustments before the Big Wait?
Do you think Battlefield friendships fit adventure mode party dynamics or is the relationship between the members of a long term adventurer party its own unique thing?
I personally haven't found a case in legends yet but do people seek revenge on the behalf of family, friends and lovers or do they only avenge themselves?
Item materials - as there are seemingly no restrictions on item materials, the game creates immersion-breaking gold, silver or tetrahedrite barrels in taverns, and every table/chair is made of different material. Even kobold forts have golden tables, even though there is no other loot to speak of - they lack weapons and are semi-naked. Do you plan to restrict materials used for things like chairs or tables to materials that are appropriate, and make them more uniform?
The new necromancer towers are awesome looking.Thank you.
Any plans to make mummies build different looking towers?
Why don't statues in temples seem to curse me when I topple them anymore? Have you removed that for some reasom?
I've noticed that, at least on my end, "yawn" and "baby" are both the same word in Dwarven: åm. Is this intended?
Will we get a more better representation on how the Dark Fortress Civs Position system works? Modding wise, it seems to have become close to being unplayable as an idea for a "All Civs playable" type mods. With either Custom Offical positions, or newly created ones, causing crashes half the time, or every time. It seems that the new custom positions act like divine metals... They are either made during world gen or not.. and if they are, they seem to stop certain responsibilities being used with player custom positions, causing a further crash.
Will this be looked into with a better way of managing these positions for modders?
I'm guessing FIRE_SAFETY nobles will be more building inspector than firefighter; am I correct?
Will adding any of the new tokens to SITE and AS_NEEDED positions be a bad idea?
Is there a way to make summoning not summon or only summon creatures of a specific creature class? If not, why not?
I've been generating a lot of worlds in the new version, and I've been noticing that Dwarven civilizations are having a really hard time at sticking around,especially in longer histories. The new digging too deep and greedily events, Powerful necromancers and other civs having infinite lifespans seems to be really taking a toll. Are there any plans to buff dwarfs during world gen? Perhaps unique dwarven events that are positive?
The new necromancer minions with magic abilities had me wondering - do you think in the future you might add a more magical alternative to the FBs, with crazier/more unnatural appearances like, say, a wheel covered in eyes like some accounts of biblical angels, with more magic based instead of biology based powers? Likewise, do you think depending on how magic is generated per world, that Demons could become even more of a threat - like, say, the classic wall strategies becoming useless due to Demons sometimes having the ability to teleport or become intangible? Just this small taste of magic is making me so giddy for the future!
Is USAGE_HINT:MAJOR_BLESSING a thing, and if so, how can you make one happen to your adventurer?
Now that people can open the circus, will wee see adamantine artifacts during w.g ?
I just checked out the ingame manual again for once in a long while, and just noticed again the cool symbols you've got set and unused for magical items.
Will you still be using these particular symbols once magical items are properly introduced?
The new interaction options offer up many fun possibilities for magical secrets and modding in "high fantasy" worlds, but as far as I can tell, they still seem to be heavily tied to necromancer towers. I've tried adding teachable, researchable secrets that can be bestowed with minor/medium blessings in the hope that this would result in creatures being taught the secrets during worldgen and then spread them around by writing books or taking apprentices, but this doesn't seem to work; in the rare instance that someone acquires a non-necromancy secret from a slab, they rarely if ever write books or take apprentices, so the secret dies with them. Is there any way of "seeding" the world with modded secrets in such a way that they will be spread around reliably in worldgen, without making them variants of necromancy? And if not, are there any plans of making one before the next Big Wait?
Quote from: Immortal-DLittle while back, ThreeToe posted *We need your help with game ending stress*. Has the feedback there been helpful at all? Have you been able to investigate, if not actually work on, the root problems in the code of Dwarven psyche?Quote from: feelotravellerWill the poor ability of dwarfs in making friends be tweaked before moving onto the Steam release?Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAre we likely to see an interim release with fixes for stress/friendship and so on during Steam development, or are we going to have to wait until everything is done?
Looking through legends, I see a lot of histfigs failing at getting assets and eventually succeeding. How do histfigs gain the relevant skills in worldgen? Is it abstracted by them just gaining a lot more experience for each relevant action they take compared to the equivalent an adventurer or dwarf would need to do? Or do histfigs actually have to indicate they're practicing this skill?
I noticed while obsessively pouring over your old Mythgen pictures that there's a few "secret" and "destroyed" cities as separate pips on the mythgen. If it's not too much of a problem, do you think you could explain how you envision these pips ideally manifesting via worldgen - could we say, find the lost ruins of an ancient mythgen era civilization, or could the hidden cities lead to hidden underground or jungle-bound societies? I'm curious how you envision such things!
Will SUMMON_UNIT interaction effects be getting special support for applying syndromes to the summoned creatures, like how the ANIMATE effect has? The new feature is really cool for modding, but the lack of that limits its potential
Since necromancers/mummies are active conquerers with their own living ensemble of people-things whether they're intentional or failed, have you effectively surpassed your old development log targets around 'haunted hamlet' type abodes populated by peoples of some description or are they still on hold for a better time to address?
I ask just on account it threw me how often ruins are left behind rather than refilled up by experiments, though i imagine the villian themselves might be more single-minded about the end-goal to worry about the needs of the people they've made.
Could you clarify whether there are going to be intermittent bugfix releases during the Big Wait (or even the Steam Wait)?
are we ever going to see the option to generate more history *after* a game has been played in a world?
I have a question about Steam release.
As you, maybe, know, russian comminuty managed to localise Dwarf Fortress into russian languge.
May be you can inpliment other localisations as official? DF is great, but some time it's too hard to understand it, if you don't know English.
Does beekeeping make more trees and plants grow in your fortress, because of pollination? If not, then why do the deserts around fortresses bloom vigorously?
How do the new alliances work in worldgen? Leader personalities? Ethics? Civ values? The old factions of snatcher civ vs. thief civ vs. civ with both vs. civ with neither? Evil races vs. non-evil races?
Suggestiony: Have you considered increasing the minimum DF screen size (or possibly a "recommended" one, with a minimum one still functioning, but being awkward) for the Premium version in order to get more room for commands (and possibly info/labels) as part of the UI rework?
If the answer is yes, I guess it would give some people who are opposed to that a chance to speak up against it and explain why...
I've found the size to be very restrictive when making DFHack scripts with a UI (which isn't a good argument for increasing the size in itself), and assume that would apply to Toady and Threetoe as well (which obviously would be relevant).
Considering the profession skill "geographer", will access to map data (except for legends) be transitioned from "basic UI function" to "item based, and dependent on available/memorized maps", or will geography only have abstract implications ingame (such as enabling site/civ level capabilities for entities in a "not involving and thusly not lowering player map UI access." sort of way?
For the various profession skills, IE chemist, mathematician, etc, are there considerations for targeting the whole bodies of knowledge in a larger update arc, or is the plan to give them functions going to be "as we go along" for the most part?
Will magic discovery, research, acquisition, et cetera utilize the topics and skills system, or will magic and it's knowledge be largely segregated from worldly knowledge and study as of the myth-magic arc plans, or will any considerations surrounding that come much later?
Given the kind of workloads you experience during your Arc workloads (and interim projects like getting army arc prepped before steam release) is it likely if you're looking at fortifications, you'll be putting some time aside to make sure other constructions are also coherent?
Special mention to glass aquariums which can't hold large roaming fish like caught whales & sharks that's been on the bug tracker for ages. Though water projects have been a erm... controversial; fishing for whales using cage traps & using pit zones to artificially air-drown and beach them is very profitable for dwarf fortresses who can engineer it and miscallenously very visually appealing and accomplishing to hold exotic sea creatures for dwarves to gawk at as trophies within aquariums, or deployed to moats & ponds in defence.
With the Steam release on the way i've got some questions regarding the modding capabilities and also that one question i missed getting into the last FotF.
First that.
The new relationship stuff added in .47(divorces, affairs, etc.) are influenced by personality/civ values right? If so, what personality/civ values significantly affect that stuff happening or not happening? Also i assume that the ORIENTATION token is taken into account, so for example if an intelligent creature has it with values such as 0:0:1, the creature can never have an affair, since the creature would have no interest in a non-committed relationship?
Now for the steam stuff (i feel like this stuff probably has been answered before):
Since i presume you want to have Steam Workshop integration, does that mean we'll be getting something like mod-loading from folders? Since i can't imagine Workshop would work well with the current mod installation method of "Drop stuff into the raw/objects folder and hope it works".
In terms of the graphics stuff, can you give a rough outline of what new graphical features tileset authors can expect from the version coinciding with the Steam release?
Rumor is that the first ARM MacBook is coming out first half of 2021. Do you think ARM Macs will ever get builds of Dwarf Fortress?
1. Is it possible to create a custom experimental creature using non-procedurally generated interactions? The living night-creature type, not the ghoul type. I've looked into the raw examples but unless it's BOGEYMAN_POLYMORPH and I just don't understand how it works I'm not sure how I'd go about doing that.
2. How exactly is fear calculated? I've been running around in adventure mode and it seems that even hearthpeople and mercenaries will run away from larger monsters even if they're something my party could defeat? I guess it's not that important given I can control them manually now but I'm curious what factors go into threat assessment if there's any besides size and the discipline skill.
The new aquifers are still confusing. The pre embark info displays Light (new trickle ones), Heavy (old, open pipe ones), and the odd "Varied" description, which, if I understand it correctly doesn't exist as an actual discreet aquifer variant. I've seen increasing the embark rectangle from one to two tiles covering one Light and one Heavy tile has resulted in "Varied", which makes sense, but there's also areas where single tile embarks are displayed as "Varied", which I guess could result from one Light layer and one Heavy layer, or from two biomes being present on the same single tile embark, with different kinds of aquifers on each part.
1. What is DF's definition of a "Varied" aquifer?
2. How does DF determine what type of aquifer(s) a tile will have (of interest to tool makers and world designers)?
With the switch to graphics coming up in the steam release I have some questions regarding the graphical representation of creatures:
1. Will scars appear on creatures graphically and if so in the proper places? On a similar note will dismembered creature's sprites properly represent their lack of certain limbs?
2. With the main races at least(dwarves, humans, goblins and elves) there is a lot of physical description detail generated- how much of that will be represented on the sprite?
3. When it comes to generated races like escaped necromancer experiments will each generated combination have it's own sprite or will you generalize a sprite for escaped necromancer experiments in general?
4. When the myth and magic update finally comes around will magical corruption be represented on a creature's sprite? If so how detailed would the visual representation of the progression of this corruption be(referencing an old threetoe's story the dwarf who was cursed by elves slowly turned into a tree person starting with her hair)?
Whereas, within the animal kingdom, a dwarf is a mammal and a bird is an oviparous being ...
1) How does DF interpret the species "eagle man"?
2) At the time of having children, would they lay eggs or become pregnant?
3) Could there be different combinations (60% human, 40% eagle) for each created world? (I have mentioned the eagle man so far only as an example).
4) Are mythological creatures (such as dragons, forgotten beasts ...) somehow included in the animal hierarchy?
I've been plumbing the depths of the material templates definitions and found these tokens in THREAD_PLANT_TEMPLATE: [/color]Code: [Select][SHEAR_YIELD:600000] used cotton
Do you remember where you sourced these numbers? The only other materials defined in the raws that match these characteristics at first pale are things like steel and adamantine, and plant thread has precipitously low attributes in every other characteristic.
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:600000] used cotton
Is it a typo in the form of an extra 0, perhaps? I can imagine it might be due to the fact that every [SOFT] armor present in the game also has [STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD] attached, which reduces both the values to a much more sane (if a bit meager) cap, which lends me to believe that those values were the intended ones for cloth materials.
I've mainly been mulling over this because I've had a hard time finding good sources concerning fabric resistance on the internet myself, and I've been trying to make a neat little mod to add in "gambesons" as armor types, but noticed that they were seriously over performing against all edged weapons if they were allowed to use the thread templates' default values.
"If your dispatched Militia dwarves from fortress mode are searching for artifacts in a non-hostile way asking for directions & locations town to town like a adventuring group, and are eventually privy to the known location of it, is it currently implemented into the game to have them use their own intrigue/schemer skill (and related social skills) to corrupt a local into giving it to them without a fight?"
Without the dungeon keeper doing much to actually train schemer skill its one of those things you can get at embark but not do very much with. I had actually entertained retiring criminally/villanous adventuerers on my site to fufill the role if one of the starting seven eventually shuffled the mortal coil with their skillset or set off on a endless quest never to be seen again; in order to keep my fortress well connected.
Do you think you could provide a full list of valid creature and caste flags for use with the new summoning interaction tokens ([IE_FORBIDDEN_CREATURE_FLAG], [IE_FORBIDDEN_CREATURE_CASTE_FLAG], etc)? It looks like a number of them (SMALL_RACE, etc) do not correspond to the typical creature tokens documented on the wiki.
Cheers as always for the answers!Yes id noticed some movement on the bug tracker before i logged on this morning.
Definitely looking forward to parallel release stress and other bug fixes!
Excellent as always. Something that's been on my mind for a while now; Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?Can't you define these as you like in Advanced worldgen?
How long do you think it would take to remake the current build (at the time of answering) of DF from scratch if you knew everything you know now?To replicate or to make a more streamlined, modern, multi-cored DF monster that fixes every bit of code Toady ever planned to fix? There's quite a difference, and I doubt there's much point in doing the former. Whereas the latter is "how long does it take to make a game?". A near-impossible question. I mean, Toady knows what he knows now because he's spent the past 20 years making Dwarf Fortress and interacting with fans about it.
Excellent as always. Something that's been on my mind for a while now; Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?Can't you define these as you like in Advanced worldgen?
Is there anything especially technically difficult about it? Or is it something the UI revamp could just throw in?Excellent as always. Something that's been on my mind for a while now; Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?Can't you define these as you like in Advanced worldgen?
You can choose a mixture of the following dimensions on either axis:
17 -> 33 -> 65 -> 129 -> 257
Imm wants more options between those numbers but I'm not sure if he's tried something like 65x129 (which is almost the exact number of tiles as the 95x suggestion) to address his specific problem. I assume more dimension options will wait for the map rewrite. Even if it isn't strictly related it doesn't seem to me like the type of thing you'd make time for outside of that arc.
The temperature calculations seem to be based on a world size of 2**x + 1 for the latitudes, and probably would break a little. While those calculations are a poor fit with the real world (real world poles do not have a zero temperature variation between summer and winter), reworking them probably takes some effort.Is there anything especially technically difficult about it? Or is it something the UI revamp could just throw in?Excellent as always. Something that's been on my mind for a while now; Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?Can't you define these as you like in Advanced worldgen?
You can choose a mixture of the following dimensions on either axis:
17 -> 33 -> 65 -> 129 -> 257
Imm wants more options between those numbers but I'm not sure if he's tried something like 65x129 (which is almost the exact number of tiles as the 95x suggestion) to address his specific problem. I assume more dimension options will wait for the map rewrite. Even if it isn't strictly related it doesn't seem to me like the type of thing you'd make time for outside of that arc.
I'm not sure - the one angle I can think of is creatures with spheres. They should get the secret
Will you ever fix morale system in adventure mode, [...]Yes. Bugs will be fixed eventually.
Yes. Bugs will be fixed eventually.
Will you ever fix morale system in adventure mode, which currently forces most of NPC, including military and nobility, to run around aggressor and not respond the player's aggression with weapon? Honestly, it makes almost impossible to fight someone in versions after 0.34. You can just start the game as peasant and come to the capital, trying to hit with bronze knife High lady-vampire with over 9000 victims and she with her dozens of retinue and military guards will just try to run from the player, leaving her throne and treasures to single psycho... Not to mention poor peaceful bandits, of course.A couple of posts above yours, Toady said the fear system should be fixed.
2. Yeah, you are definitely noticing a defect. Everybody relevant in a fight feels terror (ie, not a ghost, not berserk, etc.), but the amount of terror is moderated by fearlessness and by the opposed strength of the sides. But the strength calculation isn't great, and larger beings do get a bit of an advantage there. It looks like the equipment/skill calc here is especially bad or even not happening at all - even the off-screen fights during raids do better equipment checks (which is good in a way, since it actually impacts the outcome there.) Should certainly be improved to better account for party equipment/skill/rep, and enemy equipment/rep at least, if not skill once you test it.
Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
Oddly, no you can not. If you enter a size outside the default parameters, it defaults to the closest one.Excellent as always. Something that's been on my mind for a while now; Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?Can't you define these as you like in Advanced worldgen?
Hi guys! A question about necromancy, I have a world without towers (and Necromancer I suppose). Could that arise during fortress/adventure normal games in years?Coloured that for you.
Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
They look very close to the Dward Crocodile, (Osteolaemus tetraspis), however, they differ by several points.
Those are neat, but their discovery post-dates the existence of cave crocodiles in DF by a few years.Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
Because Dwarf Fortress really happened...Those are neat, but their discovery post-dates the existence of cave crocodiles in DF by a few years.Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
How often do you take suggestions from the suggestions section into consideration?Depends on what you mean by "take into consideration".
And (in case it's not obvious) there's no guarantee Toady will implement anything if it doesn't fit with his vision of the game.How often do you take suggestions from the suggestions section into consideration?Depends on what you mean by "take into consideration".
- All suggestions are read.
- I assume interesting/good ones can result in notes being taken.
- I'd also assume suggestions relating to things that are to be addressed in a non trivial way are revisited.
- I wouldn't be surprised if reasonably simple ones might become candidates for parallel updates during the Big Wait and onward when the easy things planned and reasonably easy bug fixing has been done, but it will be some time before we get there.
How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?In this thread:
Those are neat, but their discovery post-dates the existence of cave crocodiles in DF by a few years.Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
I believe the statement was referring back to "did Toady base cave crocodiles on giant sewer alligators" to which the counter was "how about actual cave crocodiles?" to which this answer states that Dwarf Fortress predates the discovery of cave crocodiles (in 2008), therefore no.Those are neat, but their discovery post-dates the existence of cave crocodiles in DF by a few years.Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?Or real cave crocodiles (http://www.abanda-expedition.org/orange-cave-dwelling-crocodile-012.html)?
...You know animals exist before they're discovered, yeah? They lived before 1400.
How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?This would probably be better answer on the Kitfox Discord server, since they're the one mainly handling the Steam side of things.
Toady and only Toady is doing the coding (unless he gave up and called in help already). Kitfox are just publishing and paying the artists.How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?This would probably be better answer on the Kitfox Discord server, since they're the one mainly handling the Steam side of things.
Premium isn't Steam, but:Toady and only Toady is doing the coding (unless he gave up and called in help already). Kitfox are just publishing and paying the artists.How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?This would probably be better answer on the Kitfox Discord server, since they're the one mainly handling the Steam side of things.
(Question mistakenly says "in the Steam version", but it means "once the new graphics functionality the game is getting has been added".)
[...]
- Itch.io Premium: I don't know if that will exist, but expect it will, in which case it would be Commercial plus vendor specifics (might be workshop, trading cards, achievements, but presumably not compatible with the Steam implementations, as I'd expect Steam to make compatibility as difficult as possible for commercial reasons).
Yes, regardless, how graphical body parts are put together to form procgen beasts is entirely Toady, not Kitfox. Because the game is the game regardless of where it is or what it's called.Premium isn't Steam, but:Toady and only Toady is doing the coding (unless he gave up and called in help already). Kitfox are just publishing and paying the artists.How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?This would probably be better answer on the Kitfox Discord server, since they're the one mainly handling the Steam side of things.
(Question mistakenly says "in the Steam version", but it means "once the new graphics functionality the game is getting has been added".)
- Commercial Premium: Premium with official graphics pack and some minor things. Planned to be available via Steam and Itch.io.
- Standard Premium: The same functional code as the Commercial version, but without the extras.
- Steam Premium: Commercial Premium via Steam. Same DF functionality as Commercial, but with Steam specific things (might be workshop, trading cards, achievements).
- Itch.io Premium: I don't know if that will exist, but expect it will, in which case it would be Commercial plus vendor specifics (might be workshop, trading cards, achievements, but presumably not compatible with the Steam implementations, as I'd expect Steam to make compatibility as difficult as possible for commercial reasons).
- Standard Premium: The same functional code as the Commercial version, but without the extras.
It's the same game, so why not?- Standard Premium: The same functional code as the Commercial version, but without the extras.
Is that right? Releases on the site are gonna be like this, is classic gonna be done in parallel?
Has there been any talk about steam trading cards, custom chat emoticons, or profile backgrounds (https://steamcommunity.com/tradingcards/) being available for the steam release?Which swould probably be better asked on the Kitfox Discord, because they're handling the steam release.
Sorry, "Standard Premium" should have been called "Classic Premium", where Premium is the next major release, and the "prefix" is the way it's distributed.- Standard Premium: The same functional code as the Commercial version, but without the extras.
Is that right? Releases on the site are gonna be like this, is classic gonna be done in parallel?
'Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My bad, I mis quoated.
I meant this one:Has there been any talk about steam trading cards, custom chat emoticons, or profile backgrounds (https://steamcommunity.com/tradingcards/) being available for the steam release?Which swould probably be better asked on the Kitfox Discord, because they're handling the steam release.
Sorry if this has been asked before but are you planning to remove the restriction that dwarves need orthogonal access to construction sites in order to build there? They can already build diagonally, so it seems weird to require that they be able to stand orthogonally.But does it make sense to build a wall through a diagonal gap with no other access?
But does it make sense to build a wall through a diagonal gap with no other access?If you can walk through diagonal gaps, then yes.
(It's not really graphics related. The graphics won't ever be able to show you that a demon is several times larger than Giant elephant).
Ok, sorry, not "never". But certainly not in time for the Steam release. User friendly text to make the game easier to grasp is a much more feasible upgrade for at least the next decade or so.(It's not really graphics related. The graphics won't ever be able to show you that a demon is several times larger than Giant elephant).
I know currently it can't, but never? Has Tarn said he's never going to implement characters taking up more than one tile?
Ah, thank you. That answers my question; "if ever, not any time soon" is acceptable.
Double post, but a different issue:I think it was a bit cryptic for anyone except maybe the artists (and whoever else witnessed whatever happened today).
The latest dev log (03/11/2020) is probably rather cryptic for those who haven't seen your lastest FotF replies (or possibly info in channels I haven't seen).
If I understand it correctly, you're aiming at having menus and other text one size (or more than one?) and game tiles another, to allow for the larger tiles that are in development without blowing up the size of the text. I guess it might also allow for graphics to be zoomed without affecting text?
The latest dev log (03/11/2020) is probably rather cryptic for those who haven't seen your lastest FotF replies (or possibly info in channels I haven't seen).
If I understand it correctly, you're aiming at having menus and other text one size (or more than one?) and game tiles another, to allow for the larger tiles that are in development without blowing up the size of the text. I guess it might also allow for graphics to be zoomed without affecting text?
We are currently discussing the worldmap. Since 32x32 is a bit large, the idea is to use 16x16 tiles for it, to show more map at a time.
The latest dev log (03/11/2020) is probably rather cryptic for those who haven't seen your lastest FotF replies (or possibly info in channels I haven't seen).
If I understand it correctly, you're aiming at having menus and other text one size (or more than one?) and game tiles another, to allow for the larger tiles that are in development without blowing up the size of the text. I guess it might also allow for graphics to be zoomed without affecting text?
Based on the "Steam DF tileset - Mayday/Meph - Discussion and Suggestions" thread, one reason for different size tiles is to better show the world map. I haven't heard of much discussion around menu changes yet. The impression I got was that there would be another tweaking / bug fixing pass once the artists have more to work with before the menus / UI gets more focus.We are currently discussing the worldmap. Since 32x32 is a bit large, the idea is to use 16x16 tiles for it, to show more map at a time.
Differently sized grids: The game is set up in a grid of tiles. Those determine the sprite size. 32x32 for the ingame world right now; while the UI (text) and the worldmap use smaller sprites.
Identifiers: Toady wants to add a little utility that makes it easier to identify what a tile is showing. Many items in the game don't really have nice IDs. For example when I was working with TWBT, trying to figure how to assign a sprite to a bookcase, the ID was "B:UNK_V42_2:Bookcase::"
What tileset stuff will be possible in premium version, in comparison to what community can offer (TWBT, DFHack)? Would appreciate a table if you know at this point. If not, save this question for a future post.It's the same game. Graphics functionality is being added. The only difference between paying and not is that you get a tileset which takes advantage of that functionality from day 1 (and music, Steam workshop, etc). Everyone will be able to work with the new graphics functionality for whatever they want to do.
What tileset stuff will be possible in premium version, in comparison to what community can offer (TWBT, DFHack)? Would appreciate a table if you know at this point. If not, save this question for a future post.It's the same game. Graphics functionality is being added. The only difference between paying and not is that you get a tileset which takes advantage of that functionality from day 1 (and music, Steam workshop, etc). Everyone will be able to work with the new graphics functionality for whatever they want to do.
Stealing someone's child to exort their parents later etc.This already has a little basis in the legends, histfigs can request ransom for a kidnapped figure. It's not quite blackmail, but it's there...
Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, it's my first post.The big development arc planned after Mythgen is on society, politics, your fortress' (and other site's) purpose in the world. It'll be addressed then. Although that's still several years off yet, so specifically what will be addressed is probably not yet clear
Will there ever be any big repercussions for killing off nobles, like investigation or punishment by the player civ.
Will there ever be any use for ruler type nobles like the barron? a political system? Things like embargos, tariffs, military aid and treaties with stipulations other than the elve's tree quotas.
Currently, there isn't much of a reason to keep many of the nobles around and I just want to know if there will be in the future.
If you drain water into the underworld and make mud, cave moss grows in it. You can also grow crops too. However, trees and plants will never grow, even if you mod them to give them the same layer tokens as demons. How come? Is this just an edge case you never expected, or is it intended?You may have noted that while breaching caverns allows the plants to spread to muddy/soil in your fortress, they never spread to other caverns, i.e. caverns are locked to support only the plants "native" to them in the wild. If you look at the underworld, you'll note that it does not have any mud, and so does not provide any support for native plant life. The first part is a technical quirk of DF, while the second is a logical argument which may or may not match Toady's thoughts.
Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, it's my first post.
Will there ever be any big repercussions for killing off nobles, like investigation or punishment by the player civ.
Will there ever be any use for ruler type nobles like the barron? a political system? Things like embargos, tariffs, military aid and treaties with stipulations other than the elve's tree quotas.
Currently, there isn't much of a reason to keep many of the nobles around and I just want to know if there will be in the future.
I know you've said in the past that it's a bug,
[...]
However, all that said, it's a whole lot of fun. Are you really going to remove it "because it's a bug" and rely on players creating necromancers the old fashioned way with adventurers and books planted in the library? Because it seems it just needs a small amount of brushing up to be a usable feature.
Off the top of my head, rarer necromancer visitors, the dangerous loyalty issue of invaders and animals and maybe have necromancers take away the undead who haven't petitioned to join the fortress (they do that) when they leave and you could call it done (at least until Mythgen rewrite of course).
Much like stress problems, necromancer visitors are less "interesting" for those of us who play vanilla games with unmodded dwarves. Necromancers and intelligent undead taking over forts and then turning on the fortress as a result of a tavern scuffle is a regular topic of concern.
Perhaps you could just make a necromancer mod and offer it to those who are interested, rather than petitioning to keep game breaking bugs?
Regardless, I think perhaps you meant to post this in Suggestions. It's clearly not a FotF question, as you admit in the first line you already know it's been answered.
I think perhaps you meant to post this in Suggestions.
Edited to remove background details which might be confused for suggestions.
How are you planning to tackle the necromancer visitors bug? Just removing them altogether or by fixing the game-breaking parts of their behaviour and still allowing them to visit? (Secretly or otherwise, not sure if their openness is a separate bug).
Edited to remove background details which might be confused for suggestions.
How are you planning to tackle the necromancer visitors bug? Just removing them altogether or by fixing the game-breaking parts of their behaviour and still allowing them to visit? (Secretly or otherwise, not sure if their openness is a separate bug).
I for one think necromancers visiting secretly would be pretty cool, to share my opinion on such a thing. Could perhaps work them to covertly steal bodies from fortress tombs and crypts in the future, or something similar.
Current events have got me thinking...Disease and plague are mentioned in the Dev notes a few times yes. Especially in the larger version with the far off plans.
Are pathogens (apart from werebeasts) part of the roadmap? Have they ever been considered?
Seems highly interesting both mechanically and thematically. Pathogens could mutate randomly, altering a variety of straightforward statistics, e.g. what species they effect and how severely, mechanisms of spread (e.g. blood, prepared meals, shared mugs/goblets, close contact [e.g. having a conversation, meeting, dance, training, etc.], etc.), symptoms (e.g. personality/behavior changes, physical injuries, even beneficial traits, etc.).
Granted, this would be another thing that could just wipe out entire species/civilizations in world gen, making for somewhat less interesting worlds to play in. Though, containing a viral outbreak within your fort could provide a pretty darn interesting challenge in Fortress Mode.
Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam? The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?There's a lot of reports on bins on the tracker from various versions so it's probably best to be clear what's current. What issues in particular?
:Not quite a myth, as it happened in DF history. Somewhere back in 0.40.X I had a block stockpile in the caverns taking from another block stockpile close to the mason. I then had a worker take a block out of a bin to build the protecting wall, and a hauler came along to pick up the bin to top it up, chased by one or two workers who wanted to get their blocks out of that bin (which results in a funny picture in my head). I believe it happened more than once. However, it was fixed, probably though the jobs rewrite.
I think it's worth clarifying, because even now you see people on forums complain that dwarves will haul an entire bin of goods to where they need the one thing in it and then haul it all back again, which I think is some kind of urban myth.
Exactly, there's a lot of, I had a bug 10 years ago, it was fixed 8 years ago, Broken Game! Going on.:Not quite a myth, as it happened in DF history. Somewhere back in 0.40.X I had a block stockpile in the caverns taking from another block stockpile close to the mason. I then had a worker take a block out of a bin to build the protecting wall, and a hauler came along to pick up the bin to top it up, chased by one or two workers who wanted to get their blocks out of that bin (which results in a funny picture in my head). I believe it happened more than once. However, it was fixed, probably though the jobs rewrite.
I think it's worth clarifying, because even now you see people on forums complain that dwarves will haul an entire bin of goods to where they need the one thing in it and then haul it all back again, which I think is some kind of urban myth.
Also, I suspect people using the manager suffer less from bin locking than those using repeating workshop orders, as the former case just results in a failure message, while the latter also kills the repeat order.
Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam? The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?
Toady will give a proper answer at the end of the month. However, it seems like bin fixing would be a candidate for newbie friendliness adjustments (competing with far too many others). As feelotraveller pointed out, there have been multiple attempts to address the issue, each resulting in new undesired behaviors while fixing old ones, with each iteration a little bit better than the previous one.Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam? The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?
In short: No, yes and yes.
To clarify: bin behaviour/mechanism has been revised multiple times and the current version is the best we have ever had; but there is something fundamentally broken about how containers are set up that has never been addressed and will not be before at least the map rewrite.
Personally I have zero issues with bins because after long and frustrating experience my forts don't use them at all. Mind you I use quantum stockpiles liberally and put up with each piece of worn-out clothing being individually hauled to the depot for disposal. Shrug.
G'day all,Yes. Everything TWBT can do is being attempted. You can follow work on this thread by the artists:
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.
G'day all,Yes. Everything TWBT can do is being attempted. You can follow work on this thread by the artists:
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0
This interview from a week or two back (which wasn't linked to in the devblog for some reason) goes into both Steam release and future work in a fair amount of detail and is well worth listening to.
https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172
1. I was just curious, how you are feeling personally about all the changes for the Premium releases?1. Yes. There will be lots of candidates that won't make it in. There always are with open ended tasks.
:
Is there anything you're hoping to get in that you're not sure will make it?
2. Maybe I've missed it but at this point does it seem like Premium is going to be a save-breaking update?
:
Don't know if this has been asked already, but what do the "improved sieges" plan imply? Digging invaders? Tweaks to AI?Both have been mentioned in the past. E.g. avoiding routes where many casualties have been taken on the AI improvement side (hm, learning to zig-zag around the places where traps tend to be on caravan approaches. Scary!). They already know how to avoid traps reported to them by spies, but currently get caught again and again in the same traps that haven't been reported, even if their own troops have seen buddies getting the trap treatment.
Don't know if this has been asked already, but what do the "improved sieges" plan imply? Digging invaders? Tweaks to AI?Take a listen to this interview from a couple of weeks ago (which isn't linked on the devlog for some reason). Tarn goes into some detail about the aim of Improved Sieges and the kind of features we might expect. It sounds lots of fun.
1. I was just curious, how you are feeling personally about all the changes for the Premium releases?1. Yes. There will be lots of candidates that won't make it in. There always are with open ended tasks.
:
Is there anything you're hoping to get in that you're not sure will make it?
Take a listen to this interview from a couple of weeks ago (which isn't linked on the devlog for some reason). Tarn goes into a lot of detail about what he hopes to include in the Steam release and the kind of features we might expect. It sounds interesting.1. I was just curious, how you are feeling personally about all the changes for the Premium releases?1. Yes. There will be lots of candidates that won't make it in. There always are with open ended tasks.
:
Is there anything you're hoping to get in that you're not sure will make it?
We all know there are things that won't be finished. I'm fishing for him to reveal specifics things he wants to accomplish or thinks aren't going to work out.
How much damage do you envision characters/players being able to inflict on themselves, either for post-steam adventure mode vampire spreading or during the magic release? Will we ever see suicide sphere demons instructing their supporters to die in order to re-raise them? How about self-flagellation or scarification for different religions?Toady's mentioned applying the force effects in reverse before. Shatter all the bones in your hand by punching the bronze colossus. Ha ha.
Can you say how difficult it would be to add new world sizes? I find 'Small' (65x65) is too small to support a high number of civs & interesting events, while Medium (129x129) gets super laggy after a mere ~200 years. Maybe a 90x or 95x?
How long do you think it would take to remake the current build (at the time of answering) of DF from scratch if you knew everything you know now?
Quote from: meI'm not sure - the one angle I can think of is creatures with spheres. They should get the secretI don’t think this is actually true. Modding secrets and various megabeasts, demons, and other creatures with spheres and power and supernatural tags, they don’t actually ever write down or teach or use as bribes their secret knowledge or even ever seem to use their secrets to do anything, so I don’t think they get the secret knowledge at all. Should this go in the bug tracker? It might be a moot point, since the magic system will get reworked anyway after the steam premium release...
Will you ever fix morale system in adventure mode, which currently forces most of NPC, including military and nobility, to run around aggressor and not respond the player's aggression with weapon? Honestly, it makes almost impossible to fight someone in versions after 0.34. You can just start the game as peasant and come to the capital, trying to hit with bronze knife High lady-vampire with over 9000 victims and she with her dozens of retinue and military guards will just try to run from the player, leaving her throne and treasures to single psycho... Not to mention poor peaceful bandits, of course.
Are cave crocodiles based on the "sewer alligator" urban legends?
I don't play with graphics usually, but I always swap the curses tileset for a more pleasing to my eye ASCII-ish set (Taffer set usually) and a pleasant colour scheme that suits my monitor better than vanilla.
I assume there's a chance that Premium development is going to include big changes that will, for the first time, make even non-graphical tilesets no longer "plug-and-play" with the new release. Are you going to be releasing anything (whether a set of guidelines or a test version when the game is ready and started beta testing) for people who make such tilesets to get started on updating their sets, or am I going to have to switch to Curses if I want to play on day 1?
Yeah, I mean I'll buy the premium version anyway so will play the graphics version too of course, but I imagine I'll want to turn them off fairly soon. (At least in fortress mode anyway. Excited for non-crashing graphical Adventurer).
Hi guys! A question about necromancy, I have a world without towers (and Necromancer I suppose). Could that arise during fortress/adventure normal games in years?
Has there been any talk about steam trading cards, custom chat emoticons, or profile backgrounds being available for the steam release?
How will images for procedural creatures be handled in the steam version? The image would have to be assembled from different body parts of varying sizes. Will we have just a generic procedural creature image?
How often do you take suggestions from the suggestions section into consideration?
Sorry if this has been asked before but are you planning to remove the restriction that dwarves need orthogonal access to construction sites in order to build there? They can already build diagonally, so it seems weird to require that they be able to stand orthogonally.
Alongside the graphics upgrade, will the Steam/Itch release include the relative size of creatures being visually displayed?
The latest dev log (03/11/2020) is probably rather cryptic for those who haven't seen your lastest FotF replies (or possibly info in channels I haven't seen).
If I understand it correctly, you're aiming at having menus and other text one size (or more than one?) and game tiles another, to allow for the larger tiles that are in development without blowing up the size of the text. I guess it might also allow for graphics to be zoomed without affecting text?
Kind of a big request, but it's been bothering me for a long time, and pretty much all of my attempts at science (particularly worldgen-related science) have turned up fruitless. You did mention a few in your last reply, but a full explanation would be really handy.
Any chance of giving an explanation of each of the personality traits and values, both in gameplay and how they impact the unfolding of events in worldgen?
Will the premium release allow entities to appear to move smoothly between tiles?
Just listened to your interview on Literate Gamer. Very interesting.
https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172
You mention that you may need to dial back zombie invasions because vanilla worlds invariably die 600 years in. That's fair enough I think.
But are you able to make that moddable at all? Like a slider of zombie aggression or something? I ask because I'm having the opposite issue in my own modded worlds and I think it's mostly a result of having a whole load of anti-zombie civs (pretty much everyone except goblins), some of which are way too powerful. I fear that necromancers who don't try as hard won't ever get a chance to build a decent patch of evil, let alone take over the world.
Sure, that's pretty much entirely my problem and I should balance everything else to give the necros more of a fighting chance, but was just wondering what potential options you might add are.
What tileset stuff will be possible in premium version, in comparison to what community can offer (TWBT, DFHack)? Would appreciate a table if you know at this point. If not, save this question for a future post.
A picqued bit i noticed, is that child-care got a unexpected special mention or rather the erm, lack of non-motherly child care/maternal instincts to direct the babies away from throwing them into spartan like dog-pit regimes until they grow to adulthood tooth & nail or try to deliberately/'accidentally' commit infanticide around large areas with spikes.
With kidnapping plots, people retrieval missions and insinuated possible places to drop off your babies like the kobold egg lair, will this likely create a kind of sub-focus target for villianous behaviours? Stealing someone's child to exort their parents later etc.
There's that i understand a considerable wealth of community suggestions made out of interest on the topic. Besides some likely faults when it comes to pass like does the dwarf carry away eggs, drag behind itself non-baby like larvae grub, or carry a baby that is 10x the dwarf's current size like a elephant-person? But those are mostly abtract things.
If you drain water into the underworld and make mud, cave moss grows in it. You can also grow crops too. However, trees and plants will never grow, even if you mod them to give them the same layer tokens as demons. How come? Is this just an edge case you never expected, or is it intended?
Will there ever be any big repercussions for killing off nobles, like investigation or punishment by the player civ.
Will there ever be any use for ruler type nobles like the barron? a political system? Things like embargos, tariffs, military aid and treaties with stipulations other than the elve's tree quotas.
Currently, there isn't much of a reason to keep many of the nobles around and I just want to know if there will be in the future.
How are you planning to tackle the necromancer visitors bug? Just removing them altogether or by fixing the game-breaking parts of their behaviour and still allowing them to visit? (Secretly or otherwise, not sure if their openness is a separate bug).
Are there any plans for expanding the animation of tiles? Similar to water flowing downstream or waves crashing on the beach in the current versions.
Can you say if fixing Bins will make it in before Steam? The bugs related to Bins have been around for a while now; Is the issue complicated, or just never got to it?
What update arc will you be working on after the steam release? Will it finally be the myth and magic arc or something else?
G'day all,
I've been a bit out of the loop so I was wondering if anyone could tell me:
Is there any consideration regarding having multiple z-levels rendered at once in the new graphical version (e.g. being able to view an entire mountain-side)
This is something I'd be excited to see.
Also:
Is the future map re-write planned to change how things are brought up and drawn on the screen during play, how the world map and structures are generated, or allow the player to expand the playable area. Perhaps somewhere between the three?
It's been great following the recent progress of your work with Mayday and Meph! Thanks to all three of you for the recent pictures!
One thing that's come to mind is that this is probably the ideal time to consider any changes you might want to make to the mechanics behind workshops.
With the concurrent consideration being given to new players, I'm especially curious if you're thinking of regularizing the blocking tiles in magma workshops (or just making all their floors blocking,) and changing the dwarf killing workshops with their solid sides of impassable tiles (the Jeweler's workshop, its lesser partner the Bowyer's workshop, and any I might never have noticed)?
"Why won't they cut gems and why won't they haul my old jeweler's corpse?" is a constantly recurring new player question, and I can't imagine there was ever any reason for either solid wall, since neither interacts with machinery or liquids. Really the whole concept outside of pumps, machinery, magma workshops, etc., seems strangely freedom limiting, especially in light of the long term "workshop zone" plan.
1. I was just curious, how you are feeling personally about all the changes for the Premium releases? Is it nice to get into all this stuff that has been neglected for years or does it feel like a distraction from what you'd rather be doing? Are you needing to learn a bunch of new stuff to accomplish this? Is there anything you're hoping to get in that you're not sure will make it?
2. Maybe I've missed it but at this point does it seem like Premium is going to be a save-breaking update?
3. You're close to the US epicenter of the virus. How are things where you're living? Are you and your family ok?
Don't know if this has been asked already, but what do the "improved sieges" plan imply? Digging invaders? Tweaks to AI?
Dwarf Fortress trading cards would be sick. I would play the shit out of that.
playing games ingame is something which will be someday in DF.
eventually.
What does it mean when a villain confesses to following a plot under the influence of an unidentified creature?It's when the one(s) you're interrogating confess to their own involvement(s), but do not reveal who their master is. DF knows fully well who the master is, but it ain't telling you, at least not unless you get a better interrogator...
Like, I know it has to do with the master of a villain, but I am wondering why it is saying 'unidentified creature', I don't have culling of histfigs, so I am wondering, is this a bug or just me not understanding game mechanics?
Will be possible in steam version build dirt,glay,sand construction(fully terraforming)? I mean make hill from dirt or sand or rock and it not be constuction like stone wall or wood ramp.The forum convention is to mark questions to Toady with (lime) green to help him find them among the chatter when answering questions.
Sorry if incorrect topic.
Will be possible in steam version build dirt,glay,sand construction(fully terraforming)? I mean make hill from dirt or sand or rock and it not be constuction like stone wall or wood ramp.
Sorry if incorrect topic.
I don’t know how relevant these are to the army update (or how many times these have been asked), but:1. I see no connection to planned activities here. It's logical as a long term goal, though.
1 Will we actually be able to domesticate animals on a civilization wide level?
2 If we can, will enemy exotic mounts and war animals be more common?
3 Will our dwarves be able to use mounts?
4 Going a bit further ahead, will magical procgen tamable animals and mounts exist with the magic update?
I don’t know how relevant these are to the army update (or how many times these have been asked), but:3. While mounted combat is already in Fortress Mode (I was attacked by horse-mounted dwarves just recently), actual management of a player's Fortress Mode cavalry would be a pretty big upgrade as it implies stables, training areas, new tactics and AI (get on horse, charge, attack, get off horse lead horse to stable - it's much easier for invaders who already start mounted).
1 Will we actually be able to domesticate animals on a civilization wide level?
2 If we can, will enemy exotic mounts and war animals be more common?
3 Will our dwarves be able to use mounts?
4 Going a bit further ahead, will magical procgen tamable animals and mounts exist with the magic update?
I don’t know how relevant these are to the army update (or how many times these have been asked), but:
1 Will we actually be able to domesticate animals on a civilization wide level?
2 If we can, will enemy exotic mounts and war animals be more common?
3 Will our dwarves be able to use mounts?
4 Going a bit further ahead, will magical procgen tamable animals and mounts exist with the magic update?
Capntastic: Do you have chickens now man?
Toady: Yeah. Chickens. And enlarged chickens. I guess it's kind of obligatory that we put giant chickens in the game, we have some other giant animals, you can have giant chickens. We need a Night of the Lepus or whatever the rabbit movie with giant rabbits ... giant chickens. And we'll have giant pigs.
Is there a reason for the absence (if the DF wiki is to be believed) of giant and animal people versions of the domestic creatures (chickens, ducks, goats, geese, etc.)? And if so, is that reason one of design (so they won't be added later), or of convenience (there was some difficulty, but they will be added at some (presumably unspecified) later date)? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but I was listening to old DF talks and in episode 10, you talk about the addition of chickens and how there must be giant chickens as well at that point.Domestic animals currently don't have biomes, so they don't appear in the wild, so giant and animal person versions wouldn't appear even if they were in the game.Quote from: DF talk 10 transcriptCapntastic: Do you have chickens now man?
Toady: Yeah. Chickens. And enlarged chickens. I guess it's kind of obligatory that we put giant chickens in the game, we have some other giant animals, you can have giant chickens. We need a Night of the Lepus or whatever the rabbit movie with giant rabbits ... giant chickens. And we'll have giant pigs.
Because what biome is "domestic chicken" after all?
Humans settle in mountains, jungles, swamps and deserts too.Because what biome is "domestic chicken" after all?
Maybe plains, if we assume they escaped from a human settlement.
Is there a reason for the absence (if the DF wiki is to be believed) of giant and animal people versions of the domestic creatures (chickens, ducks, goats, geese, etc.)? And if so, is that reason one of design (so they won't be added later), or of convenience (there was some difficulty, but they will be added at some (presumably unspecified) later date)? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but I was listening to old DF talks and in episode 10, you talk about the addition of chickens and how there must be giant chickens as well at that point.Domestic animals currently don't have biomes, so they don't appear in the wild, so giant and animal person versions wouldn't appear even if they were in the game.Quote from: DF talk 10 transcriptCapntastic: Do you have chickens now man?
Toady: Yeah. Chickens. And enlarged chickens. I guess it's kind of obligatory that we put giant chickens in the game, we have some other giant animals, you can have giant chickens. We need a Night of the Lepus or whatever the rabbit movie with giant rabbits ... giant chickens. And we'll have giant pigs.
Because what biome is "domestic chicken" after all?
Hopefully will be a thing someday.
(There are, sadly, no giant chickens in the raws currently).
What is cat's biome? It doesn't have one. Open up the raws, read for yourself. How many wild cats have you encountered, none, right?Is there a reason for the absence (if the DF wiki is to be believed) of giant and animal people versions of the domestic creatures (chickens, ducks, goats, geese, etc.)? And if so, is that reason one of design (so they won't be added later), or of convenience (there was some difficulty, but they will be added at some (presumably unspecified) later date)? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but I was listening to old DF talks and in episode 10, you talk about the addition of chickens and how there must be giant chickens as well at that point.Domestic animals currently don't have biomes, so they don't appear in the wild, so giant and animal person versions wouldn't appear even if they were in the game.Quote from: DF talk 10 transcriptCapntastic: Do you have chickens now man?
Toady: Yeah. Chickens. And enlarged chickens. I guess it's kind of obligatory that we put giant chickens in the game, we have some other giant animals, you can have giant chickens. We need a Night of the Lepus or whatever the rabbit movie with giant rabbits ... giant chickens. And we'll have giant pigs.
Because what biome is "domestic chicken" after all?
Hopefully will be a thing someday.
(There are, sadly, no giant chickens in the raws currently).
It is false that domestic animals sui generis don't have biomes. From the wiki page on turkeys:
"Turkeys are a species of domesticated creature who can be brought on embark or found in the wild, inhabiting temperate wetlands."
And this is experience I have had in the game, having encountered several domestic animals in their wild versions.
I'm surprised you have never seen this!
Whatever the answer is to the question, it is not this...
What is cat's biome? It doesn't have one. Open up the raws, read for yourself. How many wild cats have you encountered, none, right?Is there a reason for the absence (if the DF wiki is to be believed) of giant and animal people versions of the domestic creatures (chickens, ducks, goats, geese, etc.)? And if so, is that reason one of design (so they won't be added later), or of convenience (there was some difficulty, but they will be added at some (presumably unspecified) later date)? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but I was listening to old DF talks and in episode 10, you talk about the addition of chickens and how there must be giant chickens as well at that point.Domestic animals currently don't have biomes, so they don't appear in the wild, so giant and animal person versions wouldn't appear even if they were in the game.Quote from: DF talk 10 transcriptCapntastic: Do you have chickens now man?
Toady: Yeah. Chickens. And enlarged chickens. I guess it's kind of obligatory that we put giant chickens in the game, we have some other giant animals, you can have giant chickens. We need a Night of the Lepus or whatever the rabbit movie with giant rabbits ... giant chickens. And we'll have giant pigs.
Because what biome is "domestic chicken" after all?
Hopefully will be a thing someday.
(There are, sadly, no giant chickens in the raws currently).
It is false that domestic animals sui generis don't have biomes. From the wiki page on turkeys:
"Turkeys are a species of domesticated creature who can be brought on embark or found in the wild, inhabiting temperate wetlands."
And this is experience I have had in the game, having encountered several domestic animals in their wild versions.
I'm surprised you have never seen this!
Whatever the answer is to the question, it is not this...
Turkey, peafowl and rabbit are the only animals in creature_domestic with biomes.
So, yes, for consistency, giant turkeys and bunny girls should be roaming the countryside and would be able to if they were added.
Cats in the wild might risk a serious catsplosion in world gen which could be problematic. I'm not sure how huge populations of off site critters are handled. But embarking on such an epicenter of cats would surely be an issue.Well, presumably this could be balanced a bit better than it was in the past. Also, the issue with catsplosions in the fort I think is that they are people's pets and so cannot be slaughtered without upsetting a lot of dwarves, but wild cats shouldn't be people's pets anyway, so I don't think they should be more of a problem than other types of wildlife.
Cats in the wild might risk a serious catsplosion in world gen which could be problematic. I'm not sure how huge populations of off site critters are handled. But embarking on such an epicenter of cats would surely be an issue.
Can we expect sentient wild populations (like animal-people and satyrs) to be more fleshed-out later in the development cycle?Not at all in this development cycle.
This is my first time posting to FotF, so sorry if I mess something up, eheh...(Based on previous fotf replies as I recall them, not copy/paste):
What are the chances that there will be features pertaining to the end of the world in the Myth release? For instance, say the creation myth foretells of a time when a legendary monster consumes the world, or in a world that’s an un-hatched cosmic egg, a certain condition causes the egg to hatch, ending the world as we know it? And, as an extension of this question, would this post-end world be playable, a la FF6, or would it force the world into a ‘legends-only’ situation?
I believe the plan is for Toady to keep working on DF until he dies.And what happens after? Would development stop or will someone inherit?
I think it's been said somewhere that the code will be open-sourced if he peacefully passes away. Not sure where though...I believe the plan is for Toady to keep working on DF until he dies.And what happens after? Would development stop or will someone inherit?
I think just about all of us use stairwells. And our dwarfs happily push wheelbarrows up and down them. I've tried this in real life and it's not quite as easy as it is for the dwarfs! Any plan to encourage the use of ramps by making stairs very difficult for wheelbarrows?”Questions” of this kind belong in the Suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) sub-forum ;)
I believe the plan is for Toady to keep working on DF until he dies.He'll never die, He is the Toad Emperor of Dwarfkind.
Am I the only one who's not very excited for the Steam version? I mean I'll buy it just to support Toady more, but I'm so used to ASCII and the cruddy interface that I don't want to learn it again.No need to learn graphics. Just play with an ascii tileset as you've always done. One which comes with the game, another one, whatever you like. That's kind of the point of having a customizable game.
Similarly for the v, t, and l buttons in fort mode.
Huh, I always thought that the different saves selected meant you could actually get results from the different raws in the save files, and for example access the generated raws as well. It doesn't do that?Pretty sure it does.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean ?
Ok. It was what i understood, then. Thanks.You are mistaken. The raws are written in plain English specifically for players with no coding experience to be able to mess with as much as they like. For the most part it's more of an advanced options menu for tweaking the simulation.
That's why i said "by tweaking" in the second question.
"Mess with the raws" isn't in my opinion something a player should do by default.
it's never likely to be made more "user friendly"Well i wouldn't be too sure of this. Especially the "never/aways" part, which, in DF, in not so definitive.
The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
As far as I understand the current plan is to assemble generated creatures from sprite parts. If the discussion about backward joints in the graphics implementation thread is any indication, they're prepared to let the graphics fail to represent some things correctly due to practical reasons, rather than restrict the set of variations generated.The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
2D is easier than 3D (no need to animate weird wrestling moves or simulate curly arm hair on 2D pixel art sprites, etc). Especially when you have dedicated artists being paid to do the work for you. Now is not the same as then.The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
Hopefully the system he writes now is robust enough that it won't need to be expanded much during the Big Wait, i.e. when new procedural creatures are next added. We'll see.Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
Seems that if the system being made now can manage Night Trolls, Bogeymen, Forgotten Beasts, Titans, Experiments and Nightmares it should be able to manage any of the Mythgen proc gen critters.Hopefully the system he writes now is robust enough that it won't need to be expanded much during the Big Wait, i.e. when new procedural creatures are next added. We'll see.Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
As far as I've heard, Toady has definitely thought about tackling the centaur problem, and I think he want's to solve it (while acknowledging that it won't be trivial). I think "when" is a more relevant question than "if" (and "now" would be a very poor answer...).Seems that if the system being made now can manage Night Trolls, Bogeymen, Forgotten Beasts, Titans, Experiments and Nightmares it should be able to manage any of the Mythgen proc gen critters.Hopefully the system he writes now is robust enough that it won't need to be expanded much during the Big Wait, i.e. when new procedural creatures are next added. We'll see.Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
Next difficult step will be "the centaur problem". How to merge creature A and creature B no matter what the creature. Hard enough in text and body-part raws, pixel art construction will be a real challenge (assuming that's something Toady wants to even think about trying).
Since post Mythgen (which we were talking about) is up to a decade away, I doubt anyone was thinking "now". :)As far as I've heard, Toady has definitely thought about tackling the centaur problem, and I think he want's to solve it (while acknowledging that it won't be trivial). I think "when" is a more relevant question than "if" (and "now" would be a very poor answer...).Seems that if the system being made now can manage Night Trolls, Bogeymen, Forgotten Beasts, Titans, Experiments and Nightmares it should be able to manage any of the Mythgen proc gen critters.Hopefully the system he writes now is robust enough that it won't need to be expanded much during the Big Wait, i.e. when new procedural creatures are next added. We'll see.Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
Next difficult step will be "the centaur problem". How to merge creature A and creature B no matter what the creature. Hard enough in text and body-part raws, pixel art construction will be a real challenge (assuming that's something Toady wants to even think about trying).
The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
Villains isn't restarting until after Steam. "Parallel development" just refers to getting out bug fixes every so often during long development phases (like this one). But Toady already said that the first of those releases isn't coming until the graphics part of this development is done.The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
There's been talk of 'parallel development' but we're yet to see what that amounts to. Perhaps a bit early to tell but as yet no mention of a single bug fix or any iteration of the unfinished bits of the villians arch.
Let's wait and see... :(
4. Since some animation seems to be in the steam release will there any animation for the generated in game dances or will it still just be creatures moving about in a pattern?4. Which animation do you mean? Windmills are animated in vanilla currently.
Dancing is currently represented as a status icon (♫). An example of an animation that's been added for premium release is gems sparkling.4. Since some animation seems to be in the steam release will there any animation for the generated in game dances or will it still just be creatures moving about in a pattern?4. Which animation do you mean? Windmills are animated in vanilla currently.
Which official screenshot had sparkling gems?Dancing is currently represented as a status icon (♫). An example of an animation that's been added for premium release is gems sparkling.4. Since some animation seems to be in the steam release will there any animation for the generated in game dances or will it still just be creatures moving about in a pattern?4. Which animation do you mean? Windmills are animated in vanilla currently.
A dancing animation would have to be the sprite just jittering around a bit. Any moving of arms and legs wouldn't be feasible given the large number of creature sprites.
My understanding (or is it wishful thinking?) was that "Parallel development" would be slightly more than bug fixes, and include minor tweaks and implementations. After the Premium release has switched over into the Big Wait, that would serve as "See, we're still here" indications. Once the initial graphics phase is done, I hope it will be a bit more that it will be later, as adjustments to the Stress system in particular would benefit from field testing to get several adjustment passes in, and there may be other adjustments that don't interact heavily with the UI overhaul (or that may be tackled before the overhaul starts) that could be candidates for release and general testing.Villains isn't restarting until after Steam. "Parallel development" just refers to getting out bug fixes every so often during long development phases (like this one). But Toady already said that the first of those releases isn't coming until the graphics part of this development is done.The plan is to have even deeper procgen. Maybe we will have sprites for procgen creatures that are "assembled" from sprites for body parts?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
There's been talk of 'parallel development' but we're yet to see what that amounts to. Perhaps a bit early to tell but as yet no mention of a single bug fix or any iteration of the unfinished bits of the villians arch.
Let's wait and see... :(
Maybe. But it was only promised as a way of avoiding fatal crash bugs lingering for several years. Nothing else.
Yes. Bug fixes. Dunno what else you want to know. I'm just telling what it is this development arc is promised to contain. You believe whatever you like.Maybe. But it was only promised as a way of avoiding fatal crash bugs lingering for several years. Nothing else.
What, like the raid equipment crash/savegame corruption bug? 2 years, another arc abandoned halfway through, and still going strong. But no time to deal with that now. And that was during a period of 'normal' development, i.e., not held up by graphics getting in the way of other game development.
I think it is fair enough to be concerned since the steam work crosses one of the core features of df development, the focus on gameplay in lieu of funky visual stuff. For some of us that was part of the attraction of df and what drew us here in the first place.
Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
What I am interested in is hearing Toady's thoughts on this question (my bolding in the below).Well yes but one of the reasons that ASCII was used for DF in the first place was to avoid needing to make a model/sprite for every creature because of how much it slowed down development of DF's predecessor. So I'm wondering if there is a plan to avoid that on this attempt.
Particularly since as the game iterates and adds new stuff, or redoes it (a la mythgen or map rewrite) this will be an ongoing effort and not just a one and done.
Will Events that depict battles in carvings be biased at all? Like a leader that died pathetically to a Beak dog. Will be told to have died to a Beak dog protecting his friends from the evil demon lord?Lime green text if that's a question for Toady.
I'd been joking before that in the worst case scenario meph and mayday are a little slow and toady has more time to spent on fixing bugs and polishing... Oh the horror. ;)
What does it mean when a villain confesses to following a plot under the influence of an unidentified creature?
Like, I know it has to do with the master of a villain, but I am wondering why it is saying 'unidentified creature', I don't have culling of histfigs, so I am wondering, is this a bug or just me not understanding game mechanics?
Will be possible in steam version build dirt,glay,sand construction(fully terraforming)? I mean make hill from dirt or sand or rock and it not be constuction like stone wall or wood ramp.
1 Will we actually be able to domesticate animals on a civilization wide level?
2 If we can, will enemy exotic mounts and war animals be more common?
3 Will our dwarves be able to use mounts?
4 Going a bit further ahead, will magical procgen tamable animals and mounts exist with the magic update?
- Right now infiltrators have a very easy time flipping dwarves. In legends mode I often see that friends try to prevent position holders from becoming corrupt. Do you think the easy flipping is because dwarves are really bad at making friends still, or is it because of missing features?
- Will the digging invaders (if they get in) be on all armies like climbing is?
- Given the map rewrite is going to lead to various bits of DF understanding 3d better, do you think flier pathing is also going to improve?
Is there a reason for the absence (if the DF wiki is to be believed) of giant and animal people versions of the domestic creatures (chickens, ducks, goats, geese, etc.)? And if so, is that reason one of design (so they won't be added later), or of convenience (there was some difficulty, but they will be added at some (presumably unspecified) later date)? I know it's a bit of a silly question, but I was listening to old DF talks and in episode 10, you talk about the addition of chickens and how there must be giant chickens as well at that point.
I think just about all of us use stairwells. And our dwarfs happily push wheelbarrows up and down them. I've tried this in real life and it's not quite as easy as it is for the dwarfs! Any plan to encourage the use of ramps by making stairs very difficult for wheelbarrows?
What exotic pets may be pack animals? Why they don't in current version?
Where will the signs be for non-rectangle stockpiles? Will discontinuous stockpiles have more than one sign? Will stockpiles with sections removed still have a fence around the new perimeter? Will adjacent stockpiles have zero, one, or two fences between them? How will it look if I checker my stockpiles? (this is useful to get around the wheelbarrow limit for rock stockpiles).
Can we expect sentient wild populations (like animal-people and satyrs) to be more fleshed-out later in the development cycle?
What are the chances that there will be features pertaining to the end of the world in the Myth release? For instance, say the creation myth foretells of a time when a legendary monster consumes the world, or in a world that’s an un-hatched cosmic egg, a certain condition causes the egg to hatch, ending the world as we know it? And, as an extension of this question, would this post-end world be playable, a la FF6, or would it force the world into a ‘legends-only’ situation?
How long is the development expected to last, and will it continue developing once it reaches full version?
In Arena mode, you can select your world. But i don't think it changes anything. Why is this option existing ?
Another question (i hope it's not too suggestive), in Arena, too, we can create every type of creatures except the FB/Titans. I know it can be done otherwise by tweaking some options, but is it the way you wanted it, do you plan to change this ?
With the UI update has any consideration been given to limiting the line length of text? Perhaps with an init.txt option?
1. How will DF's procedural generation be affected by the inclusion of graphics? If procgen creatures are going to have customized sprites, which means more work on the part of the artists as opposed to just ASCII where these things are handled by verbal descriptors, would that mean that future procedural generation stuff will have to be limited or removed to accommodate a graphical overlay?
2. In the past, there was talk about implementing adventurers commanding armies and a general military update prior to the Big Wait but probably after the last of the villains stuff and the steam release. Is that on the table and if so what sort of features can we expect, if any? I for one am interested in the idea of the world as a whole having more cohesion in its military shenanigans. Being able to play a simple hunter in a city as two NPC generals fight over it seems like it'd be a great survival adventure.
1. Since you will be adding a tutorial to fortress mode to help new players in the steam release will adventure mode also be getting a tutorial?
2. Currently the divination dice generate as practices of certain religions, eventually will our player adventurers be able to see the practices of their religion that they know about in the Q(info) screen?
3. Since in the steam release objects are now going to represented graphically how will statues and figurines be handled? Statues and figurines of certain things seem simple enough but what about ones depicting complicated scenes like historical events?
4. Since some animation seems to be in the steam release will there any animation for the generated in game dances or will it still just be creatures moving about in a pattern?
Will Events that depict battles in carvings be biased at all? Like a leader that died pathetically to a Beak dog. Will be told to have died to a Beak dog protecting his friends from the evil demon lord?
Yes, less than the width. With widescreen being the default and ever increasing resolutions the game can have lines of text that are a few times longer than is comfortable to read. Even the default of 80 is difficult when there is a lot of it. And the current zoom functionality doesn't adjust on the fly at all well.Quote from: ZiusudraWith the UI update has any consideration been given to limiting the line length of text? Perhaps with an init.txt option?
What is the context here? Before, aside from the many screens stuck at 80 because they weren't updated, everything was on the same grid and so it doesn't seem to matter much. Or are you talking about making it less than the width of the grid for some reason? I don't know yet what's going to happen more broadly yet.
Thanks for the answers! Ah, if there's no real defence system for villains at all, I do feel a little better about not having the tavern open...The problem with not having the tavern open is that the Outpost Liaison then hangs around the embark wagon to be slaughtered by the next siege (or just picking a losing fight with local wildlife, which happened to me, and the bugger was queen as well, so I immediately got saddled with a monarch). At least official civ members ought to be allowed in the tavern regardless of settings.
Really? Mine just mills around the nobles' quarters. But I wouldn't say no to more granularity in visitor settings, we might need to take that to the suggestion forums, though :)I could have had bad luck so the trade liaison happened to catch the expedition leader outside and then remained there. The expedition leaders generally don't get offices in my fortresses as they're not required.
The other thing that makes not having a tavern open annoying is when inexplicably all your migrants have skill with an instrument you can't make or trade for :D
How is UX design been going?If you intended the question for Toady you should attract his attention by marking it in (lime) green.
Procgen Beard Arc
No. It doesn't specify the type of braiding used, the color of beads and cord (nor their placement), or the types and materials of the various tools used to cut and groom the beards :PProcgen Beard Arc
that's already in, isn't it? =]
The problem with not having the tavern open is that the Outpost Liaison then hangs around the embark wagon to be slaughtered by the next siege...What kind of men doesn't disband the wagon to make a distillery right away?!
Officially Kitfox gave him complete control. The 30-40 year timeline hasn't changed (but UI improvements and graphics and stuff were brought forwards).The problem with not having the tavern open is that the Outpost Liaison then hangs around the embark wagon to be slaughtered by the next siege...What kind of men doesn't disband the wagon to make a distillery right away?!
For Toady, so far regarding the steam version, have you been forced or for practicality sake's have to make a compromise in the dwarf fortress development, feature wise I mean?
Wyy bother disassembling the wagon when a tree will have been felled by the time the wagon has been pulled apart? It's just wasted effort better spent elsewhere (e.g. collecting plants that can then be brewed in a still made from tree wood), unless you've got a treeless embark. Eventually the gobbo invaders (or necro experiments) will free the wagon logs, though.The problem with not having the tavern open is that the Outpost Liaison then hangs around the embark wagon to be slaughtered by the next siege...What kind of men doesn't disband the wagon to make a distillery right away?!
:
Really cool graphics of the world map in the latest devlog. The swirling, blending evil ocean on the far west coast caught my eye. Thanks to all the artists and contributors.I only see caves which are a standard Advanced Worldgen option to make visible. Are there vaults and labyrinths visible on this map?
In the world pics, I can see sites that are normally hidden initially by default (lairs, vaults, labyrinths, etc.). Presumably you did not travel to all of them in adv mode and just used a setting to unhid them all, in order to showcase their sprites. Is this setting a feature that we can expect to utilize in the next release?
I think I brought this up as a suggestion a while back but seeing as you're working on graphical stuff now, are there any plans for adding icons for items and creatures in menu screens next to their names to better differentiate them from each other?
Are there any plans on how other factions or elements can change biomes like the towers now can? Like elves expanding forests?
Rainseeker: Question here from Gorobay, he asks: 'If befoulment, as in Threetoe's story Forest Befouled, will be an interaction?'
Toady: Well that was a pretty messed up story if I remember that ending there, where the poor ... there were various dead things ... Yeah, so it kind of leads to the main overall question, like 'Where did these evil regions come from?' Some of them probably started out that way, but ... they obviously have to arise during play, I think, because that would be very interesting if you've got some kind of evil thing sweeping over the landscape or some horrifying event that happened that caused a whole place to turn corrupted in some way. So there are various ways to consider it and if he means would befoulment be an interaction in the sense of interactions ... he must be talking about interactions as we've been talking about them, as in a kind of magical effect that changes the world, and I think that's the best way to do it, because it's either that or it's some kind of scripted thing that says 'This region became evil' which is kind of how they're made now right at the beginning of the world; it just picks some regions and makes some evil.
But if it has internal consistency to it then it can lead to all sorts of interesting things as ... you know, it's kind of how we've strived to make all of our mechanics so that they all lock together, so if there's an interaction somehow, like if you take the evil thing example, that some horrifying thing happens - I mean there would have to be some kind of like 'How horrible is this event?' meter; in that story I don't remember quite what it was but it was bad, what happened in the water, there was something very bad that happened in the water in that story, that you are welcome to read - and that would count as ... The game should be able to recognize - especially if its matters of life and death, it's the easiest thing to recognize - 'Something bad just happened to a bunch of innocent critters' and that means that the interaction ... what I was getting at is that the interaction, then, there could be a regional interaction that has a trigger of something happening - there might have to be other conditions because you don't want it to happen necessarily all the time - but if something horrifying happens, whether or not it's a specific sacrifice or just some bad event, then what it could do is call down the effect with the target being the region, and the effect would be some kind of evilification procedure. Then that would go ahead and happen and what that would do would be to put evil regions on the same footing as cursed individuals, meaning that there would be a rhyme and reason now to what's happening, and I think that's definitely how it's going to go when we finally do answer the question about where all these evil regions came from; there are going to be procedures by which they're generated.
I think ... it's not just that, right? There could be ones that still are starting as evil regions because I think that's also a traditional way of doing things; 'This place is bad, it's always been bad, and no one asks why' and there is no why, right, there's just a bad area, but it's more interesting when there's a story behind it so generally I think that's how it'll actually go. We've already got some regional effects that are the region acting on people in the region, like something that ... you could make an evil region that gives you blisters or make an evil region that curses you for the rest of your life so that you can never perform a skill roll again, which is bad news, so you wouldn't go there. But the regions ... it isn't in now, but the region could just as easily be a target for that kind of thing, it's just the sort of thing that needs the will to push through the couple or three days it takes to do it, and that's it. Hopefully that answers the question ...
Are there any plans on how other factions or elements can change biomes like the towers now can? Like elves expanding forests?Civs have been able to reduce savagery to eventually enable settlement for a very long time, so one additional case is already present.
3. Is becoming a deity in adventurer mode a possibility?
1. Are there plans as part of the magic update for deities to interact with the world beyond the currently present demon bindings and curses?
2. Will some worlds have deities be historical figures that exist within the world as opposed to how the are now and if that is possible, will it be possible to encounter and fight them in fortress or adventurer mode?
3. Is becoming a deity in adventurer mode a possibility?
Quote from: Toady OneYes, less than the width. With widescreen being the default and ever increasing resolutions the game can have lines of text that are a few times longer than is comfortable to read. Even the default of 80 is difficult when there is a lot of it. And the current zoom functionality doesn't adjust on the fly at all well.Quote from: ZiusudraWith the UI update has any consideration been given to limiting the line length of text? Perhaps with an init.txt option?
What is the context here? Before, aside from the many screens stuck at 80 because they weren't updated, everything was on the same grid and so it doesn't seem to matter much. Or are you talking about making it less than the width of the grid for some reason? I don't know yet what's going to happen more broadly yet.
For Toady, so far regarding the steam version, have you been forced or for practicality sake's have to make a compromise in the dwarf fortress development, feature wise I mean?
In the world pics, I can see sites that are normally hidden initially by default (lairs, vaults, labyrinths, etc.). Presumably you did not travel to all of them in adv mode and just used a setting to unhid them all, in order to showcase their sprites. Is this setting a feature that we can expect to utilize in the next release?
I think I brought this up as a suggestion a while back but seeing as you're working on graphical stuff now, are there any plans for adding icons for items and creatures in menu screens next to their names to better differentiate them from each other?
i know golden salve is currently useless as anything other than a trade good [and considering that crafts are much easier to make, one might say it's useless even for that], but does it have anything planned? based on the name i'm guessing it'd be part of the healthcare industry.
previous mentions of golden salve in this thread were in the context of it being a magical item.
Are there any plans on how other factions or elements can change biomes like the towers now can? Like elves expanding forests?
World history can take a long time to generate. Which is fine, I like my highly detailed histories and characters and know how to cut things down and speed things up if I really wanted to. Are there any different, faster ways of achieving this that you've thought of, or have actually experimented with in side projects that could output the same amount of detail with the same amount of functionality (ability to easily export to other viewers, etc)? That's just a hypothetical tech question of course.
Come Mythgen, you maybe said once (I may have dreamt it) that it'd be good to be able to browse the Mythgen output during history worldgen. To be able to do anything with the game during the latter stages of history generation would be very cool, technically what possible ways are there to go about doing this?
1. Are there plans as part of the magic update for deities to interact with the world beyond the currently present demon bindings and curses?
2. Will some worlds have deities be historical figures that exist within the world as opposed to how the are now and if that is possible, will it be possible to encounter and fight them in fortress or adventurer mode?
3. Is becoming a deity in adventurer mode a possibility?
Thanks as always for the replies!There's a whole separate official thread dedicated to the current graphics development so not much to ask here really.
Strange how few questions you've gotten the last two months.
Is there a chance that we will see some changes to town and building generation sometime in the next update/s? The world of DF is truly massive, but towns, fortresses etc. completely lack any flavour - taverns, for example, are just some simple furniture, sometimes a bartender, some drunks, they never feel realistic or alive, and they're always too similar. This makes the adv mode rather unappealing.(Lime green, the recommended color, is easier on the eyes than the green you used, but it will still work as a Toady attractor).
Have you considered tile generation like the one used in Cataclysm: DDA? That can create simple variations (it has several thousand basic types and subtypes of buildings with different combinations - like ground floor A, combined with first floor B and basement C, with loot generated from appropriate sets, like house, shop, restaurant, petrol station - so it's always realistic). It combines simple house layouts written in simple code, to create cities that feel very realistic - kitchens always have appropriate cooking equipment, food, drinks, bedrooms have clothes and sheets, bathrooms are very random - some have medicine, some have drugs, they often have basic things like soap or razors. It's all rather simple but the effect is unlike any other game.
I think that DF would instantly become a very different and a much more advanced game with something like this.
In adventure mode, will it ever be possible for Lovers to become pregnant instead of having to get married? Also when will it be possible for your dwarves to have things like extramarital affairs?Part of the Villains update was to allow for cheating on the spouse, as well as having multiple lovers (and remarry, after an divorce, which was introduced as well, or the death of the spouse). In adventure mode adventurers can't get pregnant (or impregnate) because they're currently of a particular adventurer asexual kind. This will presumably be addressed at some time in the post Myth & Magic future, and there's no reason to assume the current looser restrictions won't apply to adventurers at that time (although there will also be a Law & Customs arc that may well include various legal restrictions and repercussions on marriage and extra maritial sex, varying with different cultures, probably ranging from "personal matter" to mandatory "death to any who deviate from the specified path" [possibly with the standard range of exceptions for the upper echelons when it comes to enforcement]).
Is there a chance that we will see some changes to town and building generation sometime in the next update/s? The world of DF is truly massive, but towns, fortresses etc. completely lack any flavour - taverns, for example, are just some simple furniture, sometimes a bartender, some drunks, they never feel realistic or alive, and they're always too similar. This makes the adv mode rather unappealing.(Lime green, the recommended color, is easier on the eyes than the green you used, but it will still work as a Toady attractor).
Have you considered tile generation like the one used in Cataclysm: DDA? That can create simple variations (it has several thousand basic types and subtypes of buildings with different combinations - like ground floor A, combined with first floor B and basement C, with loot generated from appropriate sets, like house, shop, restaurant, petrol station - so it's always realistic). It combines simple house layouts written in simple code, to create cities that feel very realistic - kitchens always have appropriate cooking equipment, food, drinks, bedrooms have clothes and sheets, bathrooms are very random - some have medicine, some have drugs, they often have basic things like soap or razors. It's all rather simple but the effect is unlike any other game.
I think that DF would instantly become a very different and a much more advanced game with something like this.
Not in the near future. The Myth & Magic arc (after the Big Wait, some 5 years or so from now) will be forced to rework human settlements to allow for the human race to be playable in fully mundane worlds. The map rewrite taking place during the Big Wait will probably introduce changes that invalidates some of the current logic for settlements anyway (at least it will allow for new things that don't exist and thus aren't generated generated currently), so they will probably have to be reworked for that reason alone, at least to some extent.
However, extensive work on one piece of the game (in this case site generation) by necessity has to come at the expense of work on any of the other urgent changes to the game when the game is a single programmer project. That said, Toady is known to spiral away on tangents and spend a fair bit of effort on seemingly minor details, but he probably won't know if that will be the case until it happens.
It can be noted that the necro towers and kobold caves were reworked as part of 0.47.01 because they had to be to handle the contents in that release, but also that Toady was shorter of time than usual due to the Premium release obligations, and those obligations are not getting less pressing when there's less time left.
Thanks for the answer Toady. And thanks Toady and ThreeToe.Is there a chance that we will see some changes to town and building generation sometime in the next update/s? The world of DF is truly massive, but towns, fortresses etc. completely lack any flavour - taverns, for example, are just some simple furniture, sometimes a bartender, some drunks, they never feel realistic or alive, and they're always too similar. This makes the adv mode rather unappealing.(Lime green, the recommended color, is easier on the eyes than the green you used, but it will still work as a Toady attractor).
Have you considered tile generation like the one used in Cataclysm: DDA? That can create simple variations (it has several thousand basic types and subtypes of buildings with different combinations - like ground floor A, combined with first floor B and basement C, with loot generated from appropriate sets, like house, shop, restaurant, petrol station - so it's always realistic). It combines simple house layouts written in simple code, to create cities that feel very realistic - kitchens always have appropriate cooking equipment, food, drinks, bedrooms have clothes and sheets, bathrooms are very random - some have medicine, some have drugs, they often have basic things like soap or razors. It's all rather simple but the effect is unlike any other game.
I think that DF would instantly become a very different and a much more advanced game with something like this.
Not in the near future. The Myth & Magic arc (after the Big Wait, some 5 years or so from now) will be forced to rework human settlements to allow for the human race to be playable in fully mundane worlds. The map rewrite taking place during the Big Wait will probably introduce changes that invalidates some of the current logic for settlements anyway (at least it will allow for new things that don't exist and thus aren't generated generated currently), so they will probably have to be reworked for that reason alone, at least to some extent.
However, extensive work on one piece of the game (in this case site generation) by necessity has to come at the expense of work on any of the other urgent changes to the game when the game is a single programmer project. That said, Toady is known to spiral away on tangents and spend a fair bit of effort on seemingly minor details, but he probably won't know if that will be the case until it happens.
It can be noted that the necro towers and kobold caves were reworked as part of 0.47.01 because they had to be to handle the contents in that release, but also that Toady was shorter of time than usual due to the Premium release obligations, and those obligations are not getting less pressing when there's less time left.
Most site/structure changes seem to happen when they're required to by other features focal to the dev arc, like kobold caves (for artifacts) and barrows in neco sites that are meant to house the experiment critters. Obviously this isn't always the case; the new necro tower generation didn't require to change as far as I know, aside from making them look more distinct and sinister I guess. Then again, it probably wouldn't have been changed if necromancers weren't one of the major focuses of the villains update.
As for the town & building gen on the level of detail that FAA described (w/ CDDA as a model): the first entry on the old roadmap/long-term goals (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html) (bustling town arc) more or less addresses this. But based on this info, I'd reckon that major work on this would not begin until post-magic, when the development shifts focus on laws/property/customs features and later the economy. Town NPCs are planned to engage in more daily scheduled activities beyond strolling and going to the well, such as doing labor-related jobs. This means interacting (or at the very least, be in the presence of) workshops and items related to their professions, which in turn will require more differentiated buildings and more well-planned layouts. Further details like furnishing and decoration will probably tie into culture, customs, etc.
CDDA owes to its post-apocalyptic setting that facilities and stations are meant to be (mostly) abandoned/static.
Different games do different things right, but when it comes to roguelikes, Cataclysm has the most detailed world. Particularly so, as it’s very easy to add new stuff to it.
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/40696
This is just one example. A single person added 42 kinds of basements, making houses much more fun. He was able to do so because the world gen system that builds individual houses after determining the overall layout of structures and spawns roads, is easy to define. That’s it, I think that doing something similar with world gen migt benefit the game, making it easier to make more believeable buildings, and significantly shortening the time needed to do so.
But that’s leading to some OP, anyway, good question there.
Has working on the Steam UI caused you to work on or otherwise revisit aspects of the game that you hadn't planned on getting to at this stage of development?Work on the UI hasn't started yet.
The "actual" work may not have started yet, but ThreeToe has thought about it and the might have run a few side projects, so I think the question may still get a useful answer even if the main development activity hasn't reached the UI by the end of the month.Has working on the Steam UI caused you to work on or otherwise revisit aspects of the game that you hadn't planned on getting to at this stage of development?Work on the UI hasn't started yet.
Well, it might have done by the end of the month I guess...
Any new insights on the new graphics architecture (e.g. separating the graphics from the sames)? Are you implementing in in parallel to the general graphics-rewrite, or has that part of the project yet to be started?I think you may want to revise that question. I, at least, fail to understand it, and I assume you want to be sure Toady understands what you mean when it's time to answer it. Hm, ah "sames" should be "saves" (I was barking up the multi thread tree).
Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?The convention is to use (lime) green for questions to Toady so he can locate them while answering (you can update your post to add color).
In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.
Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please.
Bug fix up is part of Steam development. The three or four known crash bugs (equipment/raiding, item search in manager, refusing artifacts) are likely the main candidates to be addressed at this point.Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?The convention is to use (lime) green for questions to Toady so he can locate them while answering (you can update your post to add color).
In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.
Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please.
Stop everything and work on stability isn't an option at the moment. The Premium release has to happen, and there are probably contractual obligations tied to it (including when it has to be released, which Toady has said he wants to do before the end of the year).
I sympathize with you, and would like the stability to be improved as well, but a crucial point is to find the causes of the crashes, and that, typically, requires saves uploaded and linked to on the bug tracker, and those saves would need to reliably show the crashes (rather than the typical situation of crashing often, but with no visible cause, with the same save sometimes crashing almost immediately, and sometimes running for a season without issues).
Crash bugs are the highest priority bugs to fix, but they have to be found first, and often a crashing save isn't sufficient, as it just shows that some structure has been corrupted, with no sign of what caused it (like the raid equipment corruption bug: the symptoms are well known, but the causes are not. Toady has tried to fix it, but since it's still happening there are more causes than the one(s) he dealt with). The time after the Premium release and its inevitable bug fix releases will be a critical time for stability, though.
Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?
In my experience, the game crashes on a regular basis. During regular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.
Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please.
Tody One, I'm a modder. I use mostly real-world values in my mods for weapons, creatures sizes, etc. It would be quite helpful if we could get more info on the units used in DF, along with features that allow for us to see it, much like how DFHack does. I know that SIZE, BODYSIZE, and contact area and penetration depth in ATTACK is cm3, temp, and weight in Urists (1 U degree is equal to 102 degrees Fahrenheit and 1 U is equal 1 Kg)[1], but I don't know about SHOOT_FORCE, SHOOT_MAXVEL, and *_STRAIN_AT_YIELD. It would be really nice to see if these have some kind of unit or other equivalents.No, 10000 Urists = 0 Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit = Water freezing.
With the graphical improvements coming being applied to the current version (or something like it), will the map updates coming with the developments that precursor the myth and magic release require new artwork and/or render old artwork obsolete?Probably yes.
Time for my newest round of stupid, far off, likely already asked, questions for you!Alternate planes, flying islands, sphere based areas replacing generic Good and Bad biomes. Better rock.
1:When you change world gen for the myth arc, what specific geographic features are you hoping for (either in general, or in particular)
2: With said new world gen, do you have any thoughts on how will biomes work? If you are planning a change on that front, what?
3: How long until you have working evolution (joke question, but still)
Bonus question: 1&2, but with alternate planes.
1) Is it likely that the game will move to an open development with volunteers working on particular parts of the game, like how it currently has external artists for the Steam version? Current development is very slow, I imagine it must be very hard, perhaps that would help?
See the talk I linked just above (after talk part) to watch Toady tackle that question again (including info on what bits he might actually open source). More of a "players want to play with this stuff" than a "I need help" thing though. Pretty sure he doesn't feel like he needs any help.1) Is it likely that the game will move to an open development with volunteers working on particular parts of the game, like how it currently has external artists for the Steam version? Current development is very slow, I imagine it must be very hard, perhaps that would help?
For anything relating to DF's code, Toady's answer is "absolutely not".
hi, I just have small suggestion. I am not sure if someone suggested this before, but it would be nice if we could get a description of a civs and groups flags when we open up their history in legends mode. I hate having to hunt them down and what's worst is not being able to see other groups symbols that aren't civs like bandits, criminals organizations, guilds, merchants, mercenaries, and sects.Suggestions in suggestions forum.
And also will you be able to implement it in 47.05? Doesn't feel all that difficult since the information of these groups symbols are already in the game, all it need is to be reveal Or will it destroy the whole code if you do?
1. In the steam release will items in our inventory in adventure mode have their tile symbol next to them so we can get a cursory idea of what they look like without having to examine them?1. This is a suggestion for the Suggestions thread.
2. Will we ever be able to start out as members of goblin or necromancer civilizations before the magic release when such things become irrelevant?
3. Sometime in the far future will our adventurers be able to further manage the hamlets they create? Maybe being able to appoint things like administrators or law makers or any position beyond hearth person?
4. For me at least adventure mode tends to crash after spending time in large cities when I try to save the game causing me to loose progress. To minimize lost progress will adventure mode ever get an auto save feature that periodically drops down a save of the game?
3.Are there any sounds/music to preview yet?
Hi there!
2.The http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0 thread to discuss graphics is absolutely awesome, could we get same thing for UX yay/nay type of feedback and ideation?
That's just a thread for people to brainstorm everything that's wrong with the current system and throw about ideas on improvements. It's not a discussion on the ongoing development the new UI. (Which hasn't started yet, but yeah, it would be good to have thoughts on the updatesin one official thread when they start coming in).Hi there!
2.The http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0 thread to discuss graphics is absolutely awesome, could we get same thing for UX yay/nay type of feedback and ideation?
Right here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174947.0)
Not UI, UX. "User eXperience". That's absolutely what that thread is about.Oh, OK. Then, yeah, I guess that's the thread. Not sure what the relation with the graphics feedback thread is though...
Where do Gorlaks learn their useful advise and practice their stimulating conversation? The little guys seem to be just wandering around the caves solo, foraging for mushrooms or whatever. Is there some kind of secret Gorlak society they don't want us to know about??The underground is full of deep dwarves. They don't exist yet, but theoretically they do. Gorlaks probably talk to them. Maybe even help them out in the mushroom farms.
Now that we're a bit closer to that work, could we get a status update? It's my go-to quote for reassuring people that you don't intend for reasonably well-run fortresses to collapse into tantrum spirals from dwarves being being in a state of constant internal rage after rained on when entering the map as migrants, etc.Quote from: clinodevWhen you work on the greatly anticipated stress, needs, and happiness changes, will you focus more on fixing the little bugs that made your original plan not work, or more on modifying the algorithm to run stress towards "okay" rather than either ecstatic or misery until well-run, safe fortresses stop breaking around the 5-6 year mark (without extreme micromanagement?) Likely some of each, but have you decided a focus?
Note I'm not asking if it'll be fixed, as that's been well-covered, but it would be neat to see the original plan implemented! There was a moment around August when I was actually somewhat excited the needs bugs might encourage the fixing of long-standing but trivial bugs, like allowing dwarves to: enjoy well-made meals, rather than only (secretly) craving Zebra hearts or polar bear brains; seek out their specifically needed temple; seek out friendships and relationships; grab desired high-value clothes and trinkets from stockpiles, etc.
That might even be mostly the same thing, depending on how much the long-term stress problems depend on broken needs vs. e.g. broken memories. A lot of the notes I've taken down are about several issues with socializing, meal thoughts, etc. I haven't jumped into it yet, which makes it hard to answer your question completely. Issues with long-term memories inside stress-prone dwarves, that kind of thing; I haven't gotten up to speed on all of it yet, and won't until the work begins. I have some threads marked down to look at when the time comes. Ideally, a really poorly run fortress will break over the needs issues, while even an 'okay' fortress won't completely fall apart over the background stressors.
You've mentioned that you don't like how easy it is to feed your dwarves. Do you have any ideas for what sorts of changes you'd like to make to farming/meat production? Is this a mechanic you want to work on before the magic update, or is this something that's further down the road?Tracking soil nutrients is one of the development goals. It's definitely not going to be in before the magic update.
In-universe, are intelligent undead supposed to look like regular people? They're treated like normal citizens in worldgen, but is that because nobody actually knows they're undead? Vampires and necromancers look pretty much normal, so they can hide among the populace (until someone notices that they've been 37 years old for the past 500 years). Are intelligent undead in a similar situation?
Seems to be back up today. Along with DFFD and the bug tracker.You've mentioned that you don't like how easy it is to feed your dwarves. Do you have any ideas for what sorts of changes you'd like to make to farming/meat production? Is this a mechanic you want to work on before the magic update, or is this something that's further down the road?Tracking soil nutrients is one of the development goals. It's definitely not going to be in before the magic update.In-universe, are intelligent undead supposed to look like regular people? They're treated like normal citizens in worldgen, but is that because nobody actually knows they're undead? Vampires and necromancers look pretty much normal, so they can hide among the populace (until someone notices that they've been 37 years old for the past 500 years). Are intelligent undead in a similar situation?The main Bay12 page containing the dev log is down right now, but I think there's something there about them looking like regular people.
Is there a chance that we will see some changes to town and building generation sometime in the next update/s? The world of DF is truly massive, but towns, fortresses etc. completely lack any flavour - taverns, for example, are just some simple furniture, sometimes a bartender, some drunks, they never feel realistic or alive, and they're always too similar. This makes the adv mode rather unappealing.
Have you considered tile generation like the one used in Cataclysm: DDA? That can create simple variations (it has several thousand basic types and subtypes of buildings with different combinations - like ground floor A, combined with first floor B and basement C, with loot generated from appropriate sets, like house, shop, restaurant, petrol station - so it's always realistic). It combines simple house layouts written in simple code, to create cities that feel very realistic - kitchens always have appropriate cooking equipment, food, drinks, bedrooms have clothes and sheets, bathrooms are very random - some have medicine, some have drugs, they often have basic things like soap or razors. It's all rather simple but the effect is unlike any other game.
I think that DF would instantly become a very different and a much more advanced game with something like this.
EDIT: I'm not a programmer, but I can make several realistic-looking locations for Cataclysm in a single day. I think that something like that, perhaps using JSON like Cataclysm, might make things easier and faster for Toady.
In fortress mode, will it ever be possible for Lovers to become pregnant instead of having to get married? So can your dwarves get divorced or cheat on each other in fort mode? I know dwarves can take multiple lovers but that might be a bug or something
Has working on the Steam UI caused you to work on or otherwise revisit aspects of the game that you hadn't planned on getting to at this stage of development?
Any new insights on the new graphics architecture (e.g. separating the graphics from the saves)? Are you implementing it in parallel to the general graphics-rewrite, or has that part of the project yet to be started?
Toady, have you given anything thought at all about knucking down and working on fixing bugs and improving the games stability?
In my experiance, the game crashes on a regular basis. During ragular playtime, I can expect the game to crash 3 or 4 times, if it wasn't for DF hack quicksave, and LNP seasonal saves, i would have lost my progress every single time.
Please, stop whatever features you're working on now and focus on improving the games stability, you don't have to change the game itself, just make it more stable. Please.
Are there any plans to expand the 'd'etail function to some of the older hard coded reactions like prepare meal, mill plant, mill seeds, or dye cloth? It would go a long way in terms of user experience and would save a lot of linked stock pile hassle.
Toady One, I see you talking about a lot of work with doing identifiers-- I wonder how systematic it is that you're doing the actual job. I expect the job to be rather systematically compling a list of relevant tiles and then linking up identifiers to tile maps, possibly with identifier text files for the images. Can you speak a little about what sort of job you're doing that requires so much work with what I (probably mistakenly) imagine to be manual identifiers?
Tody One, I'm a modder. I use mostly real-world values in my mods for weapons, creatures sizes, etc. It would be quite helpful if we could get more info on the units used in DF, along with features that allow for us to see it, much like how DFHack does. I know that SIZE, BODYSIZE, and contact area and penetration depth in ATTACK is cm3, temp, and weight in Urists (1 U degree is equal to 102 degrees Fahrenheit and 1 U is equal 1 Kg)[1], but I don't know about SHOOT_FORCE, SHOOT_MAXVEL, and *_STRAIN_AT_YIELD. It would be really nice to see if these have some kind of unit or other equivalents.
With the graphical improvements coming being applied to the current version (or something like it), will the map updates coming with the developments that precursor the myth and magic release require new artwork and/or render old artwork obsolete?
Now that we can actually see which way slopes point, can we order dwarves to carve out specifically oriented ramps?
Does it look cool when fluids dribble down slopes or does it sort of ignore them?
A few reasonably near time technical questions that may not have been decided on yet:
As far as I understand, the CP437 character set is going to be replaced with a wider set.
1A. Is the set going to be the same for actual text as for character graphics?
1B. Is the set going to be fixed size (e.g. 16 bit), or variable size (e.g. Unicode)?
1C. If the set(s) has been decided on, can you tell us what it is?
I have gotten the impression that the current set of 15 colors is going to be replaced by a wider set(s).
2A. I've seen indications that named colors will be usable, would that be in addition to RGB or instead of RGB?
2B. If both versions are supported, will you be able to use one or the other at will, or will each color usage situation have a fixed definition (or some being fixed and some variable)?
2C. Assuming named colors can be used, would they be fixed or defined in a RAW file where the users can add additional ones for use in RAWs?
Time for my newest round of stupid, far off, likely already asked, questions for you!
1:When you change world gen for the myth arc, what specific geographic features are you hoping for (either in general, or in particular)
2: With said new world gen, do you have any thoughts on how will biomes work? If you are planning a change on that front, what?
3: How long until you have working evolution (joke question, but still)
Bonus question: 1&2, but with alternate planes.
Two questions:
1) Is it likely that the game will move to an open development with volunteers working on particular parts of the game, like how it currently has external artists for the Steam version? Current development is very slow, I imagine it must be very hard, perhaps that would help?
2) Any chance that the adventure mode will become more like The Sims soon? I cannot think of any roguelikes where you can just live a life in a fantasy world. I’m not interested in combat at all, but would like to play as a craftsman, have a family, build a house, that sort of things. But above all I would love to live in a dynamic, realistic world. Is that, at least partly, the focus?
hi, I just have small suggestion. I am not sure if someone suggested this before, but it would be nice if we could get a description of a civs and groups flags when we open up their history in legends mode. I hate having to hunt them down and what's worst is not being able to see other groups symbols that aren't civs like bandits, criminals organizations, guilds, merchants, mercenaries, and sects.
And also will you be able to implement it in 47.05? Doesn't feel all that difficult since the information of these groups symbols are already in the game, all it need is to be reveal Or will it destroy the whole code if you do?
Prompted by a recent interview somebody linked to (thanks!), where world gen branching was mentioned: Have you considered getting someone to help you with running a number of profiler and analysis tools over DF, in particular world gen, to track down uninitialized variables and other potential issues the tools may find?
Another grunt task that might be given to others would be crash replication, where the assistant would perform the repeat job of trying to get the crashes to show up, and then hand over the computer with the debugger at the crash location to you. That might not be very suitable at the moment, though, given that it would probably have to be done at your place. It may also require a fair number of computers for parallel crash generation attempts.
What spheres can change surroundings into evil? What effect have each of this spheres?
1. In the steam release will items in our inventory in adventure mode have their tile symbol next to them so we can get a cursory idea of what they look like without having to examine them?
2. Will we ever be able to start out as members of goblin or necromancer civilizations before the magic release when such things become irrelevant?
3. Sometime in the far future will our adventurers be able to further manage the hamlets they create? Maybe being able to appoint things like administrators or law makers or any position beyond hearth person?
4. For me at least adventure mode tends to crash after spending time in large cities when I try to save the game causing me to loose progress. To minimize lost progress will adventure mode ever get an auto save feature that periodically drops down a save of the game?
1.Can you briefly speak about how the UX work is going to be organised, what will be general direction/inspirations of the design etc.
2.The http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173474.0 thread to discuss graphics is absolutely awesome, could we get same thing for UX yay/nay type of feedback and ideation?
3.Are there any sounds/music to preview yet?
You've mentioned that you don't like how easy it is to feed your dwarves. Do you have any ideas for what sorts of changes you'd like to make to farming/meat production? Is this a mechanic you want to work on before the magic update, or is this something that's further down the road?
In-universe, are intelligent undead supposed to look like regular people? They're treated like normal citizens in worldgen, but is that because nobody actually knows they're undead? Vampires and necromancers look pretty much normal, so they can hide among the populace (until someone notices that they've been 37 years old for the past 500 years). Are intelligent undead in a similar situation?
This gets weirder when some of these guys can be like, eternally bleeding from a massive gaping wound in their throat, but many intelligent undead are unwounded.
Where do Gorlaks learn their useful advise and practice their stimulating conversation? The little guys seem to be just wandering around the caves solo, foraging for mushrooms or whatever. Is there some kind of secret Gorlak society they don't want us to know about??
Now that we're a bit closer to that work, could we get a status update? It's my go-to quote for reassuring people that you don't intend for reasonably well-run fortresses to collapse into tantrum spirals from dwarves being being in a state of constant internal rage after rained on when entering the map as migrants, etc.Quote from: clinodevWhen you work on the greatly anticipated stress, needs, and happiness changes, will you focus more on fixing the little bugs that made your original plan not work, or more on modifying the algorithm to run stress towards "okay" rather than either ecstatic or misery until well-run, safe fortresses stop breaking around the 5-6 year mark (without extreme micromanagement?) Likely some of each, but have you decided a focus?
Note I'm not asking if it'll be fixed, as that's been well-covered, but it would be neat to see the original plan implemented! There was a moment around August when I was actually somewhat excited the needs bugs might encourage the fixing of long-standing but trivial bugs, like allowing dwarves to: enjoy well-made meals, rather than only (secretly) craving Zebra hearts or polar bear brains; seek out their specifically needed temple; seek out friendships and relationships; grab desired high-value clothes and trinkets from stockpiles, etc.
That might even be mostly the same thing, depending on how much the long-term stress problems depend on broken needs vs. e.g. broken memories. A lot of the notes I've taken down are about several issues with socializing, meal thoughts, etc. I haven't jumped into it yet, which makes it hard to answer your question completely. Issues with long-term memories inside stress-prone dwarves, that kind of thing; I haven't gotten up to speed on all of it yet, and won't until the work begins. I have some threads marked down to look at when the time comes. Ideally, a really poorly run fortress will break over the needs issues, while even an 'okay' fortress won't completely fall apart over the background stressors.
k/v/q/t being four modes instead of one way of interacting more generally
As long as it doesn't result in e.g. k/k-v/k-q/k-t, i.e. interact key (here loo'k') followed by another key to select the interaction sub mode if not the default one, as that would be worse than the current system (especially if it would force you to go through a list before selecting the sub mode, e.g. when a dorf is standing on a cluttered workshop with dropped items on top of the workshop and the clutter inside).Quotek/v/q/t being four modes instead of one way of interacting more generally
YAAAASSSSSSS
As long as it doesn't result in e.g. k/k-v/k-q/k-t, i.e. interact key (here loo'k') followed by another key
The problem is "knows what to do depending on the type of object" as in my example. I'll leave it at that to allow the thread to go back on track.QuoteAs long as it doesn't result in e.g. k/k-v/k-q/k-t, i.e. interact key (here loo'k') followed by another key
Dear Armok, no. One "interact" key or left mouse click, that knows what to do depending on the type of the object. I don't know for the life of me, why it wasn't like that from the beginning.
Look makes most sense to be a mouse hover event. So far we only have one text field to put look information in, but it could be a popup window in graphical mode and there you can put anything and everything about an object or a dwarf.
I imagine this was already asked before, and answered in turn, but what's the possibility of expanding the range of text characters that can be used to represent a tile? I'm not really sure of the technicalities of how that works, so I imagine there might be a practical restriction on it.Lime green text if that's a question you want Toady to answer.
Quote from: PatrikLundell
A few reasonably near time technical questions that may not have been decided on yet:
As far as I understand, the CP437 character set is going to be replaced with a wider set.
1A. Is the set going to be the same for actual text as for character graphics?
1B. Is the set going to be fixed size (e.g. 16 bit), or variable size (e.g. Unicode)?
1C. If the set(s) has been decided on, can you tell us what it is?
I have gotten the impression that the current set of 15 colors is going to be replaced by a wider set(s).
2A. I've seen indications that named colors will be usable, would that be in addition to RGB or instead of RGB?
2B. If both versions are supported, will you be able to use one or the other at will, or will each color usage situation have a fixed definition (or some being fixed and some variable)?
2C. Assuming named colors can be used, would they be fixed or defined in a RAW file where the users can add additional ones for use in RAWs?
Toady:
We haven't decided if we're going to use a wider set -- we're juuust starting to experiment with our first text-bearing buttons, and we'll see what comes out of that. The graphical tiles and the interface tiles are completely decoupled now, so the only relationships between their sizes are just based on what makes a nice button with an animal/item picture next to it, etc. I'm just using the old 8x12 font now. Dunno if we'll end up somewhere else, either in terms of fixed size or fixed width or anything else, though we've had trouble supporting ttf in the past and I'm not sure what issues there are implementing unicode. It's not as crucial as some of the absolutely horrible stuff about the UI, as long as it is legible.
The wider color ranges are used in recoloring the graphical tile set (weapon materials, gems, etc.), and those colors are already defined in a raw file (descriptor_color_standard.txt), but I haven't done anything with text yet. DF text has always been printed using 24 bit color, and it just artificially narrowed the range. So it would just take a few minutes to get it to print in any RGB color, as a technical matter, but it's a matter of where that is used. Certainly there are lots of places where it would make sense.
Having done nothing with it makes it difficult to comment on usage. The descriptor raw file is more for in-game stuff though, so for some UI text unrelated to game objects, something more along the lines of data/init/colors.txt would be appropriate. But if the text is, say, of an in-game material and we want it to be the same color as that material (possibly brightened if it is too dark), then that would still use a raw color definition.
We can now raise our citizens as intelligent undead, who retain all their conversational skills and personality traits, and act with wills of their own, yet have zero emotions. Emotion and motivation are closely tied, and trying to untangle them gets messy. For me it's hard to really comprehend what it would even mean for someone to lack all emotions. To my understanding, even people with Alexithymia don't outright lack all emotions, much of it is a more complicated inability to understand their own emotions. So with intelligent undead, who have no emotion yet behave in many ways like regular members of the fort... is it all an act? Are they just "pretending" to be the person they once were? Are they operating entirely on habit? What are your thoughts on the philosophical implications of having motivated people with zero emotions at all?I imagine any thinking has been put off until after Mythgen when the exact nature of master-zombie relationships and how much free will that implies has been developed.
This whole concept is extremely interesting to me, characters like Spock and Data in Star Trek always get me thinking hard about what exactly it is that motivates people, and how much of the human experience is directed by emotion.
1. On some Steam version screenshots, some creatures seem to be multi-tile. Can we expect multi-tile creatures then?1. The only multi tile "creature" in DF for the time being is the wagon. The creatures you've seen are probably the oversize ones, i.e. ones that are allowed to poke into neighboring tiles a little bit, but game wise they still occupy a single tile and have no problems moving through single tile spaces. Multi tile creatures have been mentioned in the past, but there are a number of problems with their implementation, so any attempt at those will be beyond the Myth & Magic arc (The boats and complex equipment work might possibly look at multi tile creatures, as boats will be multi tile, but that will remain to be seen).
2. If Steam version is going to expand upon overground farming, can we expect NPC farms?
3. Also re farming, can we expect to be able to dig stones from the ground and fill holes with dirt? So far when you’re farming above ground you end up with a lot of holes in the middle of the farm, if you happen to have stone tiles in the middle.
I'm really late but the comparisons to CDDA are kind of shallow IMO, cataclysm's buidlings are pre-built chunks (just randomly populated with items and mobs) and adding them kind of goes contrary to this game's goals of having everything be generated, which is far off but is the goal.
1. Will animal training ever extend to herding?
2. Will we ever have fences to keep livestock separated without a full wall?
3. Will we have dog breeds at some point? General domesticated breeds, selective breeding, explicit (dif name, sprite) or just trait-based? Sentient breeds, half-breeds?
4. Will fort mode ever receive a more real time clock with day-night cycle?
:4. Most probably not. Fortress mode uses an accelerated time where dorfs walk at 1/72 the speed of adventure mode, drinks twice a month, etc. While it certainly would be possible to change from accelerated time to real time (or a lesser acceleration), the result would be that any kind of fortress scale project would take forever to accomplish. Do you really want a DF year to take 3 real world years (assuming you spend 8 hours a day, every day, with no pausing [although a DF year is slightly shorter than a real world one])? A fortress day/might cycle at the current time scale would just add an annoying color scheme change cycle at a fairly high rate.
4. Will fort mode ever receive a more real time clock with day-night cycle?
I'm really late but the comparisons to CDDA are kind of shallow IMO, cataclysm's buidlings are pre-built chunks (just randomly populated with items and mobs) and adding them kind of goes contrary to this game's goals of having everything be generated, which is far off but is the goal.
To be fair, real-life buildings follow certain patterns so this would probably be the best way to do it. Create prefabs for the game to use, sets of furniture/items that match occupant’s civilisation, profession, wealth etc. and voila, a realistic world.
I'm really late but the comparisons to CDDA are kind of shallow IMO, cataclysm's buidlings are pre-built chunks (just randomly populated with items and mobs) and adding them kind of goes contrary to this game's goals of having everything be generated, which is far off but is the goal.
To be fair, real-life buildings follow certain patterns so this would probably be the best way to do it. Create prefabs for the game to use, sets of furniture/items that match occupant’s civilisation, profession, wealth etc. and voila, a realistic world.
Except that Toady markedly has mentioned many times he isn't lookign to create a "realistic" world, just create a complete random fantasy world generator. He outright mentioned in the big Myth and Magic plans interview he'd like the way the world and culture is built to differ every game and depend on elements of the setting itself - like in a world where teleportation magic is easy, it being integrated into society more than say roads are. Combine this with his plans to eventually make it so that you can have every single race and creature in the game be procedurally generated if you like, and pre-built building chunks would feel shallow and artificial, which to me goes against the point of this project. I believe he's even mentioned plans to completely overhaul the way the entire game world is generated to better suit his goals in this regard, with a total map rework being the first step in the big wait.
What's more likely is that he'll try and make it so buildings generate schematics procedurally, especially as he answered one of my questions a while back about desiring other planes which are just endless buildings/dungeons like some depictions of hell are.
CDDA doesn't really do that though - as somebody who dearly loves and plays the game regularly, I can recognize when buildings repeat over and over. The only differences are item placement, mob population, and if windows are broken or not. Furniture, layout, etc. etc. are all completely pre-built, and sometimes even item placement is deterministic based off the building chunk loaded (such as there often being a region map at the top of radio towers).
I would be pretty annoyed if i set the "randomness" slider all the way to the side only to see the same buildings dwarves, elves, and other vanilla fantasy cultures use rather than something new and fitting of the different alien creatures such a world would create. If you read the far off dev plans and Toady's interviews re: magic, I find it strongly likely things will only get more complicated with time, not less so.
Mostly what's been described so far is a "fantasy" slider. All the way up and everything is procedurally generated. Half-way (default) for Tolkien inspired fantasy plus some proc gen beasts, as we have now. And all the way down for no fantasy at all (human worlds).
Toady mentioned three sliders - fantasy, randomness and something akin to bleakness.
Yeah, no death at all to totally bleak and horrific. The "violence slider". I'm sure they'll all get better names in time when it's clear what they'll effect.Toady mentioned three sliders - fantasy, randomness and something akin to bleakness.
Violence? IIRC, he mentioned worlds where nobody could get injured.
In what old DF version if goblins steal elven, human and dwarven children, they build dwarven, human and elven buildings in dark pits and dark fortress?I'm really late but the comparisons to CDDA are kind of shallow IMO, cataclysm's buidlings are pre-built chunks (just randomly populated with items and mobs) and adding them kind of goes contrary to this game's goals of having everything be generated, which is far off but is the goal.
To be fair, real-life buildings follow certain patterns so this would probably be the best way to do it. Create prefabs for the game to use, sets of furniture/items that match occupant’s civilisation, profession, wealth etc. and voila, a realistic world.
Except that Toady markedly has mentioned many times he isn't lookign to create a "realistic" world, just create a complete random fantasy world generator. He outright mentioned in the big Myth and Magic plans interview he'd like the way the world and culture is built to differ every game and depend on elements of the setting itself - like in a world where teleportation magic is easy, it being integrated into society more than say roads are. Combine this with his plans to eventually make it so that you can have every single race and creature in the game be procedurally generated if you like, and pre-built building chunks would feel shallow and artificial, which to me goes against the point of this project. I believe he's even mentioned plans to completely overhaul the way the entire game world is generated to better suit his goals in this regard, with a total map rework being the first step in the big wait.
What's more likely is that he'll try and make it so buildings generate schematics procedurally, especially as he answered one of my questions a while back about desiring other planes which are just endless buildings/dungeons like some depictions of hell are.
I don't really see the difference. Right now procedurally generated things in the game are made from pre-made chunks and we're all happy. You take a body type, a material, some different biological features are added or removed, and sometimes a special attack, put it together and you get an enormous hairy slug made of filth with wings and two skinny tails, it squirms and fidgets, beware it's fire breath. That doesn't feel shallow or artificial just because I know slugs, filth, hair, wings, tails, fire breath, squirming are per-defined somewhere in the raws.
You can still generate schematics that mix and match different real and fantasy features of a buildings (materials, entrances, furniture, decorations, room layouts, size, tools, populating creatures, etc) from pre-defined chunks, put em together and generate a building. Sounds pretty similar to what people are saying CDDA does.
I know this type of thing is hard to predict, but a question about the Myth/Magic/Map Rewrite. Assuming the (hopefully) extreme estimates are correct it could be 4+ years for the whole update. What I was wondering about is how modular that map rewrite code itself will be. I know the myth/magic stuff can't work without the map rewrite, but could the current game work with the map rewrite? If the rewrite doesn't break the game would there be any benefit to releasing that part to break up the Long Wait?
The map rewrite will break things in many ways (which is a major reason for why it hasn't been done earlier), so saves will not be backwards compatible. I've asked earlier in the FotF about a midpoint release where the map rewrite was done and the game stitched back together with mostly the current functionality, and Toady didn't see any point in doing that (my points would be to get something new to play with, plus getting some testing, but that was before the Premium release decision, which probably will result in Toady providing updates for the latest released version from time to time, rather than nothing for 3-7 years). I suspect Toady hasn't changed his mind since.
I know this type of thing is hard to predict, but a question about the Myth/Magic/Map Rewrite. Assuming the (hopefully) extreme estimates are correct it could be 4+ years for the whole update. What I was wondering about is how modular that map rewrite code itself will be. I know the myth/magic stuff can't work without the map rewrite, but could the current game work with the map rewrite? If the rewrite doesn't break the game would there be any benefit to releasing that part to break up the Long Wait?
1. If Toady intends to try to support it he typically won't say it because of the backlash from people when "promised" things failed to make it it. I can't see multiple riders being a thing within the current scope, as it would probably mess around with things too much.
1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of things currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.
1. If Toady intends to try to support it he typically won't say it because of the backlash from people when "promised" things failed to make it it. I can't see multiple riders being a thing within the current scope, as it would probably mess around with things too much.
1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of things currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.
2. As far as I understand earlier answers the other dimensions effectively have to be a lot smaller than the current world (whether they are in total or just the parts you can reach doesn't matter too much), because of the resource explosion resulting from each dimension being a full world in itself (generating 10 histories, etc. with a significant risk of exceeding the physical memory, making thing slower, etc.).
3. "The near future" in my view is, at most, the time before the start of the big wait, but "the color of the sky" part seems to indicate the (first) Myth & Magic arc. It's probably a good idea to update the question to make it a bit more precise.
-snip-
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Now now, to be fair, the physical memory issues would be on the user end, and as not everyone understands what ram/working memory
[CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED]
"Partied out"?If that terse question asks what the term means, I would assume it is a count down during a period from the last party during which the character has no need to attend another. Since parties were removed/disabled in the needs rewrite I assume it currently does nothing.
Are there any plans for non-dwarven (or fort race) migrants that exist in your civ and mixed civs?Take a look at Legends (or use a util like Legends Viewer) all civs are mixed already. Elf civ dwarves, goblin civ humans, dwarf civ goblins and all the civilized animal people and escaped necromancer experiments living in each of the main civs.
I've been wanting to play a fortress thats kinda like Dorwinion and has a dichotomy between two different species of sentient people working in harmony, but I'm wondering if mechanically that's something that's going to be in the works.
Migrants themselves, yes, seem to be hardcoded to being dwarves (or whatever your main race is). But you can make non-dwarf visitors into citizens already so mechanically everything is in place. Just needs switching on.
Are there any plans for non-dwarven (or fort race) migrants that exist in your civ and mixed civs?As mentioned by others, you can bring in other races by accepting petitions from visiting scholars and performers, and with luck you may be able to get enough breeding pairs to get a generic base for one or more other races. The luck factor is important, though, because it seems the set of visitors available to your fortress gets determined at the embark, and they're not replaced when they die of old age and foolishly trying to enter the fortress when there's a full necro siege ongoing.
I've been wanting to play a fortress thats kinda like Dorwinion and has a dichotomy between two different species of sentient people working in harmony, but I'm wondering if mechanically that's something that's going to be in the works.
min/max FPS
In one of the recent dwarf fortress talks you mentioned a spell where the user sacrifices a bit of their flesh to bruise their target. Seeing a spell no one in their right mind would use made me wonder; in addition to the other myth generation configuration settings would how balanced magic is be another possible setting we could configure when generating the myth for a world? Like at one end is very underpowered the the other end is very over powered?Would that even be possible? The magic in the vanilla game right now is nowhere near balanced. Necromancers can make nightmare beasts, intelligent magical lieutenants and go on zombie horde rampages while other civs....can't. Is Mythgen really going to be able to judge how "Balanced" all it's systems are while generating them? Do we even want it to?
Seeing a spell no one in their right mind would use
Is the public going to get access to the Myth Generator at some point? If not, why?I'm pretty sure that what he's using in the talk is a stand alone program that doesn't work with any version of DF.
It seems like something you've already completed that doesn't seem to have much reason to not let people use.
Does it only work for the dev version of df or something?
So why isn't it released? It sounds pretty fun and it seems usable.Is the public going to get access to the Myth Generator at some point? If not, why?I'm pretty sure that what he's using in the talk is a stand alone program that doesn't work with any version of DF.
It seems like something you've already completed that doesn't seem to have much reason to not let people use.
Does it only work for the dev version of df or something?
Because it would raise possibly false expectations for the final product.So why isn't it released? It sounds pretty fun and it seems usable.Is the public going to get access to the Myth Generator at some point? If not, why?I'm pretty sure that what he's using in the talk is a stand alone program that doesn't work with any version of DF.
It seems like something you've already completed that doesn't seem to have much reason to not let people use.
Does it only work for the dev version of df or something?
Quote from: KittyTacWould you consider releasing a version of your standalone myth generator prototype, like you showed off at GDC? I imagine that people would appreciate something to check out during the Big Wait.
I'd prefer not to do this. I think it both has the bar too high in some places (effect lists, at least for release one, probably) and too low in others (most everything else.) It's not reflective enough of what I want to do, and I don't want expectations to coalesce around it overmuch.
So with intelligent undead, who have no emotion yet behave in many ways like regular members of the fort... is it all an act? Are they just "pretending" to be the person they once were? Are they operating entirely on habit? What are your thoughts on the philosophical implications of having motivated people with zero emotions at all?
This whole concept is extremely interesting to me, characters like Spock and Data in Star Trek always get me thinking hard about what exactly it is that motivates people, and how much of the human experience is directed by emotion.
1. On some Steam version screenshots, some creatures seem to be multi-tile. Can we expect multi-tile creatures then?
2. If Steam version is going to expand upon overground farming, can we expect NPC farms?
3. Also re farming, can we expect to be able to dig stones from the ground and fill holes with dirt? So far when you’re farming above ground you end up with a lot of holes in the middle of the farm, if you happen to have stone tiles in the middle.
1. Will animal training ever extend to herding?
2. Will we ever have fences to keep livestock separated without a full wall?
3. Will we have dog breeds at some point? General domesticated breeds, selective breeding, explicit (dif name, sprite) or just trait-based? Sentient breeds, half-breeds?
4. Will fort mode ever receive a more real time clock with day-night cycle?
I know dwarf appearance varies by civ, but does it also vary by sex? Could a particular civ have, say, shaved heads being in fashion for women while braided hair is all the rage for men?
With new music coming to the Steam/itch.io release, will the 2 tracks already present in the current version of the game be remastered (re-recorded), removed from the game completely or left as is? I feel like a lot of people associate those particular tunes with Dwarf Fortress (myself included) and it would be a nice to be able to hear them in the new version of the game in some form
When the 'randomness' slider is in effect for worlds, will that change the composition of Forgotten Beast & other procgen creatures? As in- would a low random world severely limit body plan & materials, or a high random world incorporate even more potential body plans.
I'm curious why monthly donations end in odd cents. I'm thinking exchange rates from foreign currencies?
Do you think that the map rework or any future updates or changes will introduce a more dynamic and individualized way of generating buildings?
I know this type of thing is hard to predict, but a question about the Myth/Magic/Map Rewrite. Assuming the (hopefully) extreme estimates are correct it could be 4+ years for the whole update. What I was wondering about is how modular that map rewrite code itself will be. I know the myth/magic stuff can't work without the map rewrite, but could the current game work with the map rewrite? If the rewrite doesn't break the game would there be any benefit to releasing that part to break up the Long Wait?
1. Will the military update allow non-party adventure mode NPCs or fortress dwarves to ride mounts around? Would larger ones be able to have howdahs or an equivalent to support multiple riders? Mostly thinking of elephants here but maybe the amount of passengers could scale according to size, I dunno how it would work.
2. In the previous FOTF you outlined how in the far future different dimensions would work. How much could modders customize these other dimensions? For example, could I make a scifi mod where I make a different "dimension" to represent different planets and moons in the solar system (taking into account stone/minerals, flora and fauna, etc), and create civilizations for each? Or at least create civilizations in the dimensions that are added? Obviously that'd take a lot of processing power but I'm just speaking hypothetically.
3. What sort of raw data currently inaccessible to modders do you think will become available in the near future? Just off the top of my head, there's water, the weather descriptors, the color of the sky, stuff like that.
4. What exactly is the difference between armor levels 2 and 3 in regards to how entities decide use it? I know both correspond to melee units, representing chain and plate armor respectively (with the exception of soldiers of a civilization, which can get level 2 or 3 chest and head gear), but I can't find much information one what causes a civilization or NPC to decide to/be able to equip one or the other.
5. In adventure mode I have seen NPCs in taverns wearing armor made from multiple materials that were exclusive to a single civilization. So it was wearing armor made from metal exclusive to Civ A, and also another piece made with metal exclusive to Civ B. I'm curious how that works. Do NPCs loot equipment or gain access to materials from particular civs by spending some time with them?
Hi Toady, I've got a modding question which I haven't been able to find an answer to. What purpose does "REQUIRED" serve in the COUNTER_TRIGGER syndrome effect, and are there any other arguments which can be used in its place? For instance, the example vampire interaction contains the following line:Code: [Select][CE:COUNTER_TRIGGER:DRINKING_BLOOD:1:NONE:REQUIRED]
On a similar note, the wiki details 8 counters for use with the COUNTER_TRIGGER effect, but does not reference a source for this information. As such, are there any other counters available besides those included in the following list?Spoiler: counters (click to show/hide)
As Steam moves on to Villains and "stuff to do before the Big Wait" do you think you'll have another shot at cleaning up fortress unretirement? Or are the various bugs ("hostile" visitors who aren't, visitor number explosions, etc) caused by underlying issues that need save-breaking rewrites?
Are there any plans for non-dwarven (or fort race) migrants that exist in your civ and mixed civs?
I've been wanting to play a fortress thats kinda like Dorwinion and has a dichotomy between two different species of sentient people working in harmony, but I'm wondering if mechanically that's something that's going to be in the works.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAre the icons sliders and other graphical parts of the interface that you're adding locked to the official tileset? I'm just wondering how the new interface will work for anyone who doesn't buy the Steam version. Or indeed in Steam's curses tileset, is that Curses plus graphical icons? Different icons to match the ASCII style? Presumably all the new rectangle drawing tools and such will be fully functional?Quote from: DGAre all new UI elements and any changes to current ones supporting keyboard only input?
You mentioned in the dev blog that we're now able to set designations during unpaused play. Does that accompany some control over the play speed during play? Everything happens awfully quickly at 100FPS and awfully slowly at 5 FPS, will we have some ability to set min/max FPS during play?
I have to say that not having to pause the game to make any changes when things are running slow sounds like a great feature, I think I spend more time paused than running in older forts.
In one of the recent dwarf fortress talks you mentioned a spell where the user sacrifices a bit of their flesh to bruise their target. Seeing a spell no one in their right mind would use made me wonder; in addition to the other myth generation configuration settings would how balanced magic is be another possible setting we could configure when generating the myth for a world? Like at one end is very underpowered the the other end is very over powered?
Is the public going to get access to the Myth Generator program at some point? If not, why?
It seems like something you've already completed that doesn't seem to have much reason to not let people use, and it seems pretty cool and fun.
Quote from: squamous4. What exactly is the difference between armor levels 2 and 3 in regards to how entities decide use it? I know both correspond to melee units, representing chain and plate armor respectively (with the exception of soldiers of a civilization, which can get level 2 or 3 chest and head gear), but I can't find much information one what causes a civilization or NPC to decide to/be able to equip one or the other.4. It gets convoluted, so I'm not sure how this plays out now, but it looks like it chooses half the possible level 3s to be part of the uniform for invading soldiers, so that they have a mix of 2s and 3s. Do humans, say, when they come to invade, wear the level 3 sections with any consistency, in a given civilization? The code is so old and goes on such a walk now it'd be easier to just check an army to see if that happens. It doesn't look like it's used anywhere else at this point.
5. In adventure mode I have seen NPCs in taverns wearing armor made from multiple materials that were exclusive to a single civilization. So it was wearing armor made from metal exclusive to Civ A, and also another piece made with metal exclusive to Civ B. I'm curious how that works. Do NPCs loot equipment or gain access to materials from particular civs by spending some time with them?
5. Hmm, they don't do specific looting aside from artifacts. And when it generates inventory items, it appears to use just one civilization. There's a lot of code here, so it's not clear immediately if there's another path where it might use more than one. It's also possible the civilizations themselves are picking up the materials through other means, though if they don't use the material elsewhere that's less likely.
Quote from: Mort StroodleI know dwarf appearance varies by civ, but does it also vary by sex? Could a particular civ have, say, shaved heads being in fashion for women while braided hair is all the rage for men?
There's nothing like that currently. I think it'll still vary e.g. eye color if only one of the castes has eyes, but I'm not even sure about that.
I should probably interject that moustaches and facial hair are a hard-coded masculine facial feature, its not very... free to utilize but its there.
I should probably interject that moustaches and facial hair are a hard-coded masculine facial feature, its not very... free to utilize but its there.
"hard-coded" = one set of square brackets in the raws away from being not the case :P
Regarding different dimensions, does any of your inspiration come from Michael Moorcock's books, particularly The Knight, Queen, & King of the Swords trilogy and the Chronicles of Corum? He uses the term "planes" rather than "dimensions", and many (if not most) of his other works use his concept of the multiverse of planes. His books have been favorites for me since the 80's. Yes, I deliberately didn't mention the Elric series because everyone must have read some of those.
Would it be possible to include "infinite" procedurally generated planes? DF currently generates maps of a fixed size. Because DF procedurally generates history, it has to be confined to a finite area. But could DF grant players access to planes where no history occurs, just infinite pseudo-random wilderneness? Or what about an infinite plane where civilisation is just confined to the "middle"?From Toady (about six posts above this one...)
For the infinite planes etc., we'd have to be much more careful, but it'd still be possible to have crucial places (travel/plane hubs, divine seats, capitals, etc.) have complete rich parallel histories, lessened only by the way that extraplanar things that touch them seem to disappear more or have less of a defined-yet-sprawling character (compared to worldgen farmland/etc.) We should be able to get a long way like this though, in some senses as far as a lot of the works set in such multiverses which also focus almost entirely on the important bits.
In other mushier infinite setups, there might be nothing historical at all away from the core play zone, if there is even one of those.
Eventually, every items/buildings in the game will be textured, and not ASCII-ed.No, DF will allow for different tile sets, one of which is character based (the only one in Classic, the alternative one in Premium), however, I assume the separation of raws from tile sets means each "thing" will have to have some kind of identifier in the raws that has to be matched in the tile set(s) the mod supports. I assume you can specify a pre existing tile depicting one of the ASCII characters, one of the pre existing CP437 non ASCII characters, or a new one you come up with based on a character not present in CP437.
1. At this point, will we still be able to mod in new items/workshops by simply editing the raws ?
2. Will this require a sprite/texture for the modded items/buildings or could we just give it an ASCII tile like today ?
Can personality be tied to political beliefs? In the next version, will there be political beliefs and non-theism/anti-theism that will also develop much like personality?
Can personality be tied to political beliefs? In the next version, will there be political beliefs and non-theism/anti-theism that will also develop much like personality?
Will the position tokens, currently unused in dwarf civs and only found on human gen civs, be expanded upon in later versions? Some suggestions might be an advisor (ADVISE_LEADERS) for leaders higher than expedition leader, a raid leader (ATTACK_ENEMIES) noble, a dedicated master architect (CONSTRUCTION_PERMITS) noble, and a return of the arsenal dwarf (EQUIPMENT_MANIFESTS and UPGRADE_SQUAD_EQUIPMENT, this might be rolled into militia commander instead).Suggestions belong in the suggestions sub forum http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
snipSuggestions belong in the suggestions sub forum http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
Could future updates see specific dishes or cuisines associated with certain civs and/or sites?Yes, this is planned and in the devnotes. It was almost part of the taverns update but was cut for time, likely not to be attempted again until the economy is done to make it worthwhile.
I actually went back and looked, and I don't see any mention of economy regarding tavern games and recipes. Rather that these things require generators, and that there's no official place in the roadmap where they'd go. So for all we know it might be M&M release 2.3 ;) (which isn't too weird an idea either, most of the mentioned myth gen magic systems seem to use materials, so I am assuming we'll see magic potions before too long)They were part of the taverns update:
Especially given worldgen does have gambling and there's the divination dice already.
Set prices/activitiesThe generators weren't made and they've now been put off. Most likely (fotf answer somewhere) until the economy makes them more worthwhile.
Recipes/drink quality
Games
Dwarves can gamble with outsiders
Ability to play games directly if a dwarf is involved
So, yeah, we had planned to break the tavern stuff up and get two reasonably short releases in. Then we did the normal thing and this release ended up not quite as short, and then we started feeling a little uncomfortable continuing on in the same vein for too long. And getting a bit over-excited about the myth stuff as we played around with the generator side project. Coupled with the gambling vs economy+justice problem, we are leaning toward the artifact release now after this. I still really like the random games and recipe ideas though. They may find side generators of their own lighting a fire under them before long.
Day and night (in Fortress Mode), No. Answered last month (or the month before). Would just be annoying flashing through day and night cycles every couple of seconds unless the timescale (and therefore the entire gameplay of Fortress mode) changed drastically.
Will adventure mode get graphical paper-doll equipment screen?
Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Can we have animation for wind swaying the trees lightly? Pretty please :)
Will there be animations for moving objects, destroying objects, dorf attacks, fire, waterfalls etc?
Do you have any interest in adding evolutionary capabilities to the game? I think having physical features naturally adapt to each environment would add a lot of interesting variety to the game. Maybe even aspects of personality and mind can be tied to genetics in the game? Regarding the time scales, I have made a few simulations of my own and evolution can happen very fast in some circumstances. Wars and environment changes can spur rapid change in the gene distribution. This may be out of scope for what you have in mind for DF, but I think it could lead to interesting cases, such as magically inclined or magically resistant populations.
I have a question regarding the code. In the past the idea was to have the code delivered to the NY Museum of Arts in the case of Toady passing. First, I dont know if that actuallt meant the code would be made public or only parts of it as some display of sorts. Second, is that still the plan? Or now the code wont be released ever to anyone?
Also, Toady, would you aprove of us trying to use necromancy in that case to bring you back? I mean, what could go wrong? .
1. At this point, will we still be able to mod in new items/workshops by simply editing the raws ?
Can personality be tied to political beliefs? In the next version, will there be political beliefs and non-theism/anti-theism that will also develop much like personality?
To add to this. This was decided really early on by the community in part. There wont be a day/night cycle in Fort mode because players valued having some dorfs always active over period of time where there were no dorfs active.
Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).To add to this. This was decided really early on by the community in part. There wont be a day/night cycle in Fort mode because players valued having some dorfs always active over period of time where there were no dorfs active.
Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Will 24-bit colors for text display mentioned in the 08/08/2020 dev post also be in the classic game?
Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it'd be a fun game. It's just not the game people enjoy playing right now. So not something to approach lightly. Maybe the result of another Big Wait in the far future which changes so much that a Fortress Mode gameplay rewrite is a minor detail and has the assurance that we always have a "stable" version of the previous version to fall back on.Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).
Also that if its too regular or irregular, creatures & sentient beings will probably end up sleeping or being active during particular periods because they already have rules on whether they rise during the day, dusk, morning, evening or night defined in tokens. Though everything else took into account too, like were-beasts having definite windows to be active, what time people should sleep, and the presence of things like bogeymen or creatures that dissapate in daylight.
Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Yes, changing the time progression of Fortress to 1/72 of the current rate would result in something rather different. However, expanding Adventure Mode with options that allows you to manage a fortress might well be fun in its own way (and at the other end of the scale we have the Civ management level that could either be an optional extension to Fortress Mode, or its own mode where you don't control any site in detail).Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it'd be a fun game. It's just not the game people enjoy playing right now. So not something to approach lightly. Maybe the result of another Big Wait in the far future which changes so much that a Fortress Mode gameplay rewrite is a minor detail and has the assurance that we always have a "stable" version of the previous version to fall back on.Well, if Toady really wanted it, this could be overcome. I imagine dwarves without a need for sunlight would adapt well to shift work. But, yeah, it's a massive change to the whole of Fortress Mode which most likely isn't worth it until the simulation demands perfect synchronisation between Adventurer and Fortress (and whatever other modes there are in that far, far away scenario).
Also that if its too regular or irregular, creatures & sentient beings will probably end up sleeping or being active during particular periods because they already have rules on whether they rise during the day, dusk, morning, evening or night defined in tokens. Though everything else took into account too, like were-beasts having definite windows to be active, what time people should sleep, and the presence of things like bogeymen or creatures that dissapate in daylight.
The rate is a too slow to act as a stroboscope, but fast enough to be really annoying, so it it's introduced, I hope it can be disabled with an option (or, better, enabled by those who want it). Underground would presumably have its own perpetual twilight level from abstract light sources.Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Even if it was just cosmetic, something would have to be done about lighting the underground. It wouldn't make sense to have it change with the surface, and perpetual nighttime underground isn't satisfying either.
The rate is a too slow to act as a stroboscope, but fast enough to be really annoying, so it it's introduced, I hope it can be disabled with an option (or, better, enabled by those who want it). Underground would presumably have its own perpetual twilight level from abstract light sources.
Is it true that long term memories can't be replaced by short term memories of equal strength? This Reddit thread seems to think it's the cause of major stress issues. (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/hjt112/i_think_ive_figured_out_the_stress_spiral_thoughts/)
Regarding the recent UI update posted for Steam; Can you yet say how much of an overhaul the Labors menu will receive? Will there be functional changes beyond graphics & mouse scrolling? i.e. the abilities of Dwarf Therapist utility to mass-apply labors and create custom 'professions' (a saved grouping of labors).In a couple of recent interviews (and one of the Dftalks maybe) he said he would prefer something closer to auto-labor to help with labor settings. But that providing options for people who prefer spreadsheet micromanagement is important too). Seemed like this was all part of the updates for Steam.
Edit: Do you have any new info regarding the Game Ending Stress thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174931.0)?
So much to say about the new UI!If the name doesn't reflect what's in the entity raw then it would likely be an oversight, but I guess it doesn't hurt much to use some forum space for a reminder (especially since prototypes cobbled together have a tendency not to be replaced with "proper" implementations in the SW industry).
But I think I'll go with...
The top tab on the embark screen says "Dwarves". Is that a procedurally generated word that changes automatically in modded games? Or if not, can it be changed by modders?
(I understand the colors and things are likely moddable, but a lot of text in the current version is hard-coded, would be nice not to have more of it).
Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders :)
Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders :)
As LordBaal said, the long term goal is to make as much as possible available through raws. As also mentioned, there's been no indication that the Premium release will make a push at that effort (and I don't think it should: there are so many more urgent things that are actually in the Premium release's scope that will have to be cut due to time constraints).Im wondering, we will be able ti turn things like stairs and ramps directions.
The tile set/text separation will result in raw changes that allow tile sets to be selected independently of saves, so that's some raw changes that support modders, but it's more of a side effect.
Im wondering, we will be able ti turn things like stairs and ramps directions.I fail to understand the question, so Toady might struggle as well. Is it a suggestion to add the ability to modify stairs from one version to another as direct commands rather than using the current alternatives? The subject of changing ramp directions does not make sense to me, since ramps always are on the lower level going up, with the indication on the level above just being an indication that there's a ramp below (rather than just showing the open space that's actually there), and ramps are magical in that they automatically morph to allow you to climb up in any direction in which the ramp is supported by a wall (although you still have to supply a flat space on the level above to step to for the ramp to work).
The stuff you were talking about in the second-to-last DF talk about imaginary magic systems in mundane worlds got me thinking: will humans in such settings sometimes still believe that the vanilla DF fantasy races like dwarves, elves, goblins, and the like exist in their particular world? It's not like various human cultures haven't believed in these creatures in the past, so it would make sense.Would be the same as the way dwarves believe in griffons, centaurs and chimeras now
Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.
Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.
Are you saying that almost anything could be modded through DFHack?
What's the current approach regarding the UI for the Classic/character tile set Premium version of DF?For reference this was the situation a month ago:
The reason for the question is the realization that things are reworked significantly, so the current UI can't be retained as is, and it seems to be a duplication of effort to make two different versions of the UI, in particular if a character set oriented version would try to emulate widgets using characters (or something looking like characters).
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Are the icons sliders and other graphical parts of the interface that you're adding locked to the official tileset? I'm just wondering how the new interface will work for anyone who doesn't buy the Steam version. Or indeed in Steam's curses tileset, is that Curses plus graphical icons? Different icons to match the ASCII style? Presumably all the new rectangle drawing tools and such will be fully functional?
Quote from: DG
Are all new UI elements and any changes to current ones supporting keyboard only input?
Toadyone:
They are locked, insofar as everything else is - it's set up currently as the creature graphics have been, where you link up images with text files and so forth, and the fancy image sets aren't going to be in DF Classic (which is likely what the Steam curses version will be, same as the free one.) That does leave us the question of what DF Classic is, when we've been aiming for "no graphics but as many of the interface improvements as possible." We'll very soon reach a point where the changes will require some sort of substitute. Whether those are literal text buttons (with line outlines and ASCII symbols inside), or something else, is yet to be seen. The way the interface currently works where it still respects the old grid somewhat (rather than the new graphical layer, which doesn't respect the old grid, other than being a grid at all) makes it much easier to handle ASCII parallel work on an ongoing basis.
Yeah, the continuing plan, which seems feasible thus far, is to maintain keyboard alternatives everywhere. There are some questions here and there about how some nested widget might work, if various little tick boxes end up being convenient, and so forth, but having quick key/sequence methods is important.
Quite a significant number of the boolean flags for this and that end up being mapped out and twiddled with via the DFhack github project and this is the foundational basis for a lot of DFhack scripts and community bit-patches that have emerged over the years, its really as close as anybody would get to anything that is not the RAWS without being either of the Adams brothers themselves.
Are you saying that almost anything could be modded through DFHack?
Will there be an expansion on medical simulation in Fortress Mode? Will there also be disease simulation, dentistry, and hygiene (haircare and skincare) in the game at some point?
What's the current approach regarding the UI for the Classic/character tile set Premium version of DF?
The reason for the question is the realization that things are reworked significantly, so the current UI can't be retained as is, and it seems to be a duplication of effort to make two different versions of the UI, in particular if a character set oriented version would try to emulate widgets using characters (or something looking like characters).
Edit: To clarify, I'm thinking of things like sliders, that do not naturally translate into tiles, rather than cases where the character tile set can easily be used instead of image/icon tiles.
1. What exactly is required for a bandit/mercenary fort to spawn in the world. I am currently working on a project in which the only civ type is the fortress site-type and the only biomes are tundra and mountains. The civ has BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS, but the forts themselves do not appear. Are there other requirements I don't know about?
2. When the eventual military update rolls around, will there be more diversity in unit types? By which I mean more combinations of armor (ranged units in heavy plate armor for example) or the use of sidearms/multiple weapons, like a pikeman or bowman who carries a shortsword and uses it when the enemy comes close, or a berserker-type of fighter who uses two one-handed weapons.
This has probably already been asked, but will we be able to transfer saves from the current version to Steam and vice versa?Lime Green text for Toady ;)
This has probably already been asked, but will we be able to transfer saves from the current version to Steam and vice versa?
This has probably already been asked, but will we be able to transfer saves from the current version to Steam and vice versa?Building on clinodev's answer:
Toady has said that the only difference between the Steam EXE and the classic EXE will be steam integration, nothing else.the current devpost (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/#2020-08-28) would appear to indicate this is no longer strictly the case.
You mean the guts? That's just a difference between using a graphics set and using an ascii-like set. Both of which are options in the Steam version. Both of which will be options in Classic (once modders have made their own sets).Toady has said that the only difference between the Steam EXE and the classic EXE will be steam integration, nothing else.the current devpost (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/#2020-08-28) would appear to indicate this is no longer strictly the case.
How many more things need to be done before dwarf fortress can be released on steam?A lot more than there's time for. As far as I understand, there's a contractual obligation to release it before a deadline (approaching fast, at a rate of one day per day), with Toady having made the unusual move of mentioning a release before the end of the year, and a huge table filled with stuff that ought to be done. The result will be the usual for DF (and SW in general): as the time runs out things will have to be cut at an accelerating pace.
Hey Toady I've seen some mentions of alternative "Planes/Universes" in the questions and I had a couple questions about them too, along with Gods, Divinity, and Magic.
1.Could it be possible to "Destroy" an entire Plane?
2.Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
3. Is there a Chance of a Plane where Gods Reside? such as Mt. Olympus in Greek Mythology. Where Gods will Exist as Physical Beings and interact with each other? Potentially effecting the Mortal Plane?
4.If So Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
5.will it be possible for a Mortal Creature to Ascend to Divinity?
Hey Toady I've seen some mentions of alternative "Planes/Universes" in the questions and I had a couple questions about them too, along with Gods, Divinity, and Magic.Since the magic arc isnt the current focus. The answer to these question, is 'That sounds cool. Maybe, we'll see. I dont know yet.'
1.Could it be possible to "Destroy" an entire Plane?
2.Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
3. Is there a Chance of a Plane where Gods Reside? such as Mt. Olympus in Greek Mythology. Where Gods will Exist as Physical Beings and interact with each other? Potentially effecting the Mortal Plane?
4.If So Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
5.will it be possible for a Mortal Creature to Ascend to Divinity?
Regarding different dimensions, does any of your inspiration come from Michael Moorcock's books, particularly The Knight, Queen, & King of the Swords trilogy and the Chronicles of Corum? He uses the term "planes" rather than "dimensions", and many (if not most) of his other works use his concept of the multiverse of planes. His books have been favorites for me since the 80's. Yes, I deliberately didn't mention the Elric series because everyone must have read some of those.
Would it be possible to include "infinite" procedurally generated planes? DF currently generates maps of a fixed size. Because DF procedurally generates history, it has to be confined to a finite area. But could DF grant players access to planes where no history occurs, just infinite pseudo-random wilderneness? Or what about an infinite plane where civilisation is just confined to the "middle"?
Eventually, every items/buildings in the game will be textured, and not ASCII-ed.
1. At this point, will we still be able to mod in new items/workshops by simply editing the raws ?
2. Will this require a sprite/texture for the modded items/buildings or could we just give it an ASCII tile like today ?
Can personality be tied to political beliefs? In the next version, will there be political beliefs and non-theism/anti-theism that will also develop much like personality?
Will the position tokens, currently unused in dwarf civs and only found on human gen civs, be expanded upon in later versions? Some suggestions might be an advisor (ADVISE_LEADERS) for leaders higher than expedition leader, a raid leader (ATTACK_ENEMIES) noble, a dedicated master architect (CONSTRUCTION_PERMITS) noble, and a return of the arsenal dwarf (EQUIPMENT_MANIFESTS and UPGRADE_SQUAD_EQUIPMENT, this might be rolled into militia commander instead).
Could future updates see specific dishes or cuisines associated with certain civs and/or sites?
1. Criminal behaviour such as embezzling suggests w.g civ/off-site dwarves end up earning a wage, same as devlog comments on wealthy patrons buying buildings. Are there any other implicit w.g things that dwarves spend their money on?
2. Is there any particular ordering of precedence to w.g payment for civ/non-fort-site positions or is it handled in some hardcoded way?
3. If poverty is a issue for a large majority of roles regarding the site-level army in supplimenting its equipment, do you think that it would impact responsibilities like [RESPONSIBILITY:UPGRADE_SQUAD_EQUIPMENT] (from the arsenal-dwarf, still a valid token to use but doesn't really do anything) capability to function without first procuring more money not spent elsewhere into funding better equipment?
I mainly say this because im in the middle of writing a suggestion thread as i speak; about the economics of how compared to mercenaries and rich folk operate in the mini-economy and some suggestions on how to budget armies a little bit more so that sieges can differ in quality between different civs at different levels of wealth. It'd be nice to have some informative quotes by the next time the FotF rolls around.
Its novel to think that humans while being the most merchantile grop with the highest respect for commerce, propensity to build merchant companies, (and some guilds to refine goods) are often fielding the worst armies quality wise in mass deployment of copper equipment, because the person in charge of the squads is a low paid and ranking member of their society with enormous gambling debts.
Will adventure mode get graphical paper-doll equipment screen?
Will there be daytime/nighttime change in DF? At least purely cosmetically it would be nice IMO.
Can we have animation for wind swaying the trees lightly? Pretty please :)
Will there be animations for moving objects, destroying objects, dorf attacks, fire, waterfalls etc?
Do you have any interest in adding evolutionary capabilities to the game? I think having physical features naturally adapt to each environment would add a lot of interesting variety to the game. Maybe even aspects of personality and mind can be tied to genetics in the game? Regarding the time scales, I have made a few simulations of my own and evolution can happen very fast in some circumstances. Wars and environment changes can spur rapid change in the gene distribution. This may be out of scope for what you have in mind for DF, but I think it could lead to interesting cases, such as magically inclined or magically resistant populations.
With features like beard color being more visible by the promotional content for the steam release, do you think that there would ever be such popularity for a feature or increased requests for ways to aesthetically alter dwarf's beards or other body aspects through in-game means (bleaching beards, barbering & dying, tattoos, bodypaint, yikes deliberately cutting off hair as punishment etc.)
Something emergent like elves suddenly isolated and under shaping of dark forces becoming orcs (which is a device of Tolkien) or even the radical transformation of necromancer-experiments is a example of forced evolution. The people affected by it just live with it, when the site government falls apart for whatever reason they're thrown out into the world free to follow their wishes, they aren't night creatures but its easy to draw a association, a bit like when you judge a goblin in a tavern is automatically a spy.
I have a question regarding the code. In the past the idea was to have the code delivered to the NY Museum of Arts in the case of Toady passing. First, I dont know if that actuallt meant the code would be made public or only parts of it as some display of sorts. Second, is that still the plan? Or now the code wont be released ever to anyone?
Also, Toady, would you aprove of us trying to use necromancy in that case to bring you back? I mean, what could go wrong? .
Will 24-bit colors for text display mentioned in the 08/08/2020 dev post also be in the classic game?
Is it true that long term memories can't be replaced by short term memories of equal strength? This Reddit thread seems to think it's the cause of major stress issues. (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/hjt112/i_think_ive_figured_out_the_stress_spiral_thoughts/)
Considering that when you subjugate goblins after much back and forth raiding & bashing up they don't really keep their promises at all to send you their agreed continous tribute, will you expect a further implementation of sending actors to these sites to do intrigue can help reinforce them doing 'what you want them to do' implicitly the game guessing for you on circumstance, or will there be details?
Regarding the recent UI update posted for Steam; Can you yet say how much of an overhaul the Labors menu will receive? Will there be functional changes beyond graphics & mouse scrolling? i.e. the abilities of Dwarf Therapist utility to mass-apply labors and create custom 'professions' (a saved grouping of labors).
Edit: Do you have any new info regarding the Game Ending Stress thread?
The top tab on the embark screen says "Dwarves". Is that a procedurally generated word that changes automatically in modded games? Or if not, can it be changed by modders?
Hello,
I'm not a modder myself but I'm curious about modding possibilities. Anyone knows if the Toady is planning to make more of the hardcoded data accessible to modders for the steam version?
Basically giving full control to modders
Im wondering, we will be able ti turn things like stairs and ramps directions.
I mean the graphics. Currently the ramps and stairs are represented by a single title each, so i.e. in graphic packages you have to decide if up stairs and down stairs go to the left or the rigth. The ramps currently are represented in the vertical direcction.
Its only a cosmetic and useless issue.
The stuff you were talking about in the second-to-last DF talk about imaginary magic systems in mundane worlds got me thinking: will humans in such settings sometimes still believe that the vanilla DF fantasy races like dwarves, elves, goblins, and the like exist in their particular world? It's not like various human cultures haven't believed in these creatures in the past, so it would make sense.
What's the current approach regarding the UI for the Classic/character tile set Premium version of DF?
The reason for the question is the realization that things are reworked significantly, so the current UI can't be retained as is, and it seems to be a duplication of effort to make two different versions of the UI, in particular if a character set oriented version would try to emulate widgets using characters (or something looking like characters).
Edit: To clarify, I'm thinking of things like sliders, that do not naturally translate into tiles, rather than cases where the character tile set can easily be used instead of image/icon tiles.
Will there be an expansion on medical simulation in Fortress Mode? Will there also be disease simulation, dentistry, and hygiene (haircare and skincare) in the game at some point?
I heard there was some criticism of the scroll bars in the embark loadout screen. Have you considered having multiple pages to tab through rather than scroll bars? Already, there are category tabs at the top, so my concern with pages replacing scroll bars would be just too many tabs.
Do you think the 'text' terminal rendering mode for DF will survive all these upgrades? I know we're keeping an old-style ascii graphics pack, but all the changes made to different grid sizes sound like terminal-text wouldn't be compatible anymore.
1. What exactly is required for a bandit/mercenary fort to spawn in the world. I am currently working on a project in which the only civ type is the fortress site-type and the only biomes are tundra and mountains. The civ has BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS, but the forts themselves do not appear. Are there other requirements I don't know about? [answered I guess]
2. When the eventual military update rolls around, will there be more diversity in unit types? By which I mean more combinations of armor (ranged units in heavy plate armor for example) or the use of sidearms/multiple weapons, like a pikeman or bowman who carries a shortsword and uses it when the enemy comes close, or a berserker-type of fighter who uses two one-handed weapons.
3. Is there any way to prevent forgotten beasts from spawning without setting cavern layers to 0?
The Dwarf Fortress Wiki article on 'Time' indicates that time advances 72 times faster per tick in Fortress Mode relative to Adventurer Mode, which is something I've seen repeated as a fact in a plethora of forum posts over the years. However, when attempting to corroborate this using DFHack, I observed that the presumed fortress-mode-tick counter increases by 1 for every 144 increase in the presumed adventurer-mode-tick counter, and the counter from which the calendar date appears to be derived in both modes increments by 1 when these increase by 10 and 1440 respectively. To me, this implies that the time difference between the two modes is in fact double the value stated above. Is this actually the case, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Since the positions are hardcoded at present, for the upcoming (past steam release in mind) Military Arc, would you be releasing any of the structures related to the military positions (like elf rangers, human warriors, generic captains etc) to the modding community or would you be expecting to flush them out and put in a new system/set of positions in typical DF style?
It's kind of frustrating that these old positions with [ATTACK_ENEMIES] and [PATROL_TERRITORY] do not have any perjunctive use at all but carry everything related to sieges in their mysterious ways, but i hope im not overstepping too much asking about it; after the modding community got a significant boost in 47. with forgotten beasts and our special friends the clowns's special tokens being brought to the forefront was greatly appreciated.
This has probably already been asked, but will we be able to transfer saves from the current version to Steam and vice versa?
1. Will the graphical equipment and goods selection screen also be used when selecting our starting gear in adventure mode in addition to being used in fortress mode?
2. Will the fast travel screen in adventure mode also have a graphical mini map version?
For the steam/itch release, will there be support for playing different music depending on the situation? Like changing song during a siege, breaching HFS, traveling, exploring, combat in adventure mode?
Will you post a cute picture of Scamps?
How does the differences in trailing gut behaviour between tileset and ASCII modes affect save compatibility?
IIRC, you can currently smash trailing guts with a drawbridge. Would they disappear in tileset mode if you smashed them in ASCII mode?
How many more things need to be done before dwarf fortress can be released on steam?
Will there be a new font for Steam version of the game? I find the existing one not blending well with the UI.
Hey Toady I've seen some mentions of alternative "Planes/Universes" in the questions and I had a couple questions about them too, along with Gods, Divinity, and Magic.
1.Could it be possible to "Destroy" an entire Plane?
2.Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
3. Is there a Chance of a Plane where Gods Reside? such as Mt. Olympus in Greek Mythology. Where Gods will Exist as Physical Beings and interact with each other? Potentially effecting the Mortal Plane?
4.If So Will Gods have a chance being able to physically enter and interact/alter a plane, as a Living God/Avatar. Or Potentially Create a Entirely New Plane?
5.will it be possible for a Mortal Creature to Ascend to Divinity?
What are your plans on fixing game's performance in the long run? It's hardly possible to play with 50 dwarves, if we add procgen magic and planes to it - it would be even slower?I play with regularly with 150 + visitors and don't have a particularly powerful machine. Check all the known bugs that cause sudden drops in fps (like pets trying to path through locked doors). Fixing these would be a nice start even before looking at any more complex optimisations.
What are your plans on fixing game's performance in the long run? It's hardly possible to play with 50 dwarves, if we add procgen magic and planes to it - it would be even slower?Here's someone who has managed 2000+ : https://dffd.bay12games.com/who.php?id=1895
What are your plans on fixing game's performance in the long run? It's hardly possible to play with 50 dwarves, if we add procgen magic and planes to it - it would be even slower?
Following Df talk with Brian Bucklew - have you played Caves of Qud?Yes, Toady's mentioned playing Caves of Qud many times before.
What do you think of it's UI?
Have you seen new UI being developed - https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/ho140h/ui_design_of_the_game_caves_of_qud_finished/ ?
Any thoughts on this top-bottom approach vs DF's apparently opposite approach - from details to the wide picture.
Following Df talk with Brian Bucklew - have you played Caves of Qud?Yes, Toady's mentioned playing Caves of Qud many times before.
What do you think of it's UI?
Have you seen new UI being developed - https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/ho140h/ui_design_of_the_game_caves_of_qud_finished/ ?
Any thoughts on this top-bottom approach vs DF's apparently opposite approach - from details to the wide picture.
Interested in what you mean, can you give an example? I don't think we've seen much of Toady's thoughts on the actual design process. Devlogs have been incredibly dull for this dev arc, only updating when there's pretty pictures to show (probably reflects what Toady says about not enjoying the process). However he started from a point of view making the overall experience better for a player starting up the game and the steps they go through to get into the game. Although little has been mentioned on how that actually works yet. Not sure if that's what you mean by "details".
Probably a limitation of implementing a new UI for a completed game, compared with one which has several decades of development left. As I said, there's been very little actual information on development in the devlogs so we really have no idea of anything they're doing besides adding a tileset (which you don't need to use and most people will likely replace with the tileset of their choice just like we've always done).
Perhaps the weird devlogs are something to do with with what Toady mentioned about Kitfox wanting to announce certain milestones at specific times so he can't just chat freely like he used to. How far in advance was the new Qud design philosophy announced and explained in detail?
Don't expect them to rewrite the game from scratch though. That would be suicide to try right before releasing on Steam.
Sure. Just allocate the next 5 years to that effortThere's no need to be sarcastic. I was asking a question in good faith with only the best intensions.
From what I can observe, DF premium is being done in an opposite way - atomic chunks of game like one menu or one mode(zone mode) are being re-made in graphical mode but absolutely identical in terms of UX.
There's currently a supply/population readout at the top, and you can access the stocks screen directly from there - stocks are not a screen anymore, but a large window that comes down, with visual contents more or less like the embark item above. Instead of adding and subtracting as in embark, buttons for recenter/view/forbid/dump/melt/hide options are available, both for groups and individual items. And it has text filtering now!
We're hoping to continue to bring screens hidden in the depths out to the main screen as possible (the Stocks used to be found at 'z' and then some tabs over), allowing you to remain more present in the main play area as in most modern strategy games. I think the world map ('c') will probably still be its own screen, due to the world map display, but we'll see about the rest!
1. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
Hey TarnTarn is going to be busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. Not Kitfox. So not very likely at all.
1. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
Hey Tarn
1. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
While babynamescube (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) and themeaningofthename (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) claims that origin of the name, the Norwegian statistics bureau says there are 0 Tarns in Norway (you can search for names on their site (https://www.ssb.no/navn#renderAjaxBanner)). Isn't the true origin just the noun "tarn" meaning "pond, small lake"?Hey TarnTarn is going to be busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. Not Kitfox. So not very likely at all.
1. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
(Tarn. Norse origins. Because Toady is a Viking. Maybe).
"Lake" is a fairly reasonable name. Craig after all, just means "Rock". But yeah, seems to be rare.While babynamescube (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) and themeaningofthename (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) claims that origin of the name, the Norwegian statistics bureau says there are 0 Tarns in Norway (you can search for names on their site (https://www.ssb.no/navn#renderAjaxBanner)). Isn't the true origin just the noun "tarn" meaning "pond, small lake"?Hey TarnTarn is going to be busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. Not Kitfox. So not very likely at all.
1. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
(Tarn. Norse origins. Because Toady is a Viking. Maybe).
(There are also 0 people with the first name Tjern/Tjörn, which is Norwegian for "tarn", so I doubt the origin of the name is Norwegian immigrants changing their names by direct translation. It technically could still be Norwegian somehow, but my bet is on some conjuring of information along the line, and then sites copying another without facts-checking.)
While babynamescube (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) and themeaningofthename (https://www.babynamescube.com/tarn-name-meaning) claims that origin of the name, the Norwegian statistics bureau says there are 0 Tarns in Norway (you can search for names on their site (https://www.ssb.no/navn#renderAjaxBanner)). Isn't the true origin just the noun "tarn" meaning "pond, small lake"?
(There are also 0 people with the first name Tjern/Tjörn, which is Norwegian for "tarn", so I doubt the origin of the name is Norwegian immigrants changing their names by direct translation. It technically could still be Norwegian somehow, but my bet is on some conjuring of information along the line, and then sites copying another without facts-checking.)
Someone other than Toady probably already knows this one.You can always just take on a secret identity to steal the artifact. Then return it as yourself. So long as no-one saw you, you should be OK.
If you only travel by night, sneak well, swim through sewers to avoid leaving tracks, and stay out of sight the entire time can you keep the artifacts you steal from generating rumors of their actual location indefinitely? If you manage to keep the rumors down this way could you still return the item for positive reputation or does there need to be intervening rumors about it being taken?
Quote from: nenjin on October 25, 2017 at 08:03:05 am
The last few years browsers have started more aggressively notifying you when the connection is insecure.
I spend a lot of time on these forums and I know others do as well. Is there anyway we could get the forum running on HTTPS? I think it'd make a lot of us feel safer browsing on the forums.
Thanks!
Yeah, we've been looking at that, but it's a mess. Once the next release is up and stabilized, we might take some time with it, since it'll be a long process -- we also have to upgrade other aspects of the server to get the next SMF patch to work.
According to people that have looked at what's being sent back and forth, I'd recommend making sure you don't use your username/password combination elsewhere if you are using the forum on coffee shop wifi or something.
Toady has earlier answered that the Character version of screens won't be considered in any detail until the principles have been worked out (if a widget turns out not to be that great, it's a waste to make a Character version of it as well). It's also been mentioned that key bindings will be thrown up in the air and reworked as part of the UI rework, so the particular key a function is bound to may very well change, but since key bindings are just that, displaying the key currently bound would reflect whatever the key is currently bound to. The optimistic interpretation is that key bindings won't be included in screens until the actual functionality has been decided upon, while the pessimistic one is that it will be put off until after the last minute, and won't make it in, as Toady's key support wordings have been less than reassuring.He mentioned that the keyboard support will still be there in the latest video, which is positive, at least, and I believe it's been said before too. Just nothing about any enhancements or changes to it. Even if it's last minute, I don't think representing key bindings would be cut altogether since it's not really that hard to do, just takes implementing it in each place. But even in terms of layout issues, they're planning full tooltip support and would be pretty easy to just stick a little text call into the tooltip.
All that's been said so far indicates that the key binding functionality would be identical between the Premium and the Classic version, so if one version requires a mouse equivalent the other one does as well (it can be noted that a key binding widget should work identically in Tile Set as well as Character mode, with only the tiles used for potential decoration of the widget differing).
What are you discussing? New video? Stress meters? Did I miss some new UI reveal?Was on Steam update.
The rate of updates is within the range that it has been historically. Toady just doesn't make a special devlog for the marketing stuff that's made with the advisement of Kitfox, but just includes it in whatever dev log comes next.What are you discussing? New video? Stress meters? Did I miss some new UI reveal?Was on Steam update.
Dev blog here is sadly now updated only occasionally. It'll get here eventually I expect.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.90
Yeah, it's about was it has been for a very slow month. Down from once a week to one this month so far (and a Dftalk announcement). Of course, usually in a slow month it's slow because there hasn't been anything to write about. Which as you can see on Steam, isn't the case.The rate of updates is within the range that it has been historically. Toady just doesn't make a special devlog for the marketing stuff that's made with the advisement of Kitfox, but just includes it in whatever dev log comes next.What are you discussing? New video? Stress meters? Did I miss some new UI reveal?Was on Steam update.
Dev blog here is sadly now updated only occasionally. It'll get here eventually I expect.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.90
I tried to watch the video last night but I've run out of data on my phone plan and have no other internet access, so the connection timed out because I'm getting like 0.5kb/s. Would someone be kind enough to post a transcript or summary of what was covered?UI Shit is happening! Mouse Control for lots of items! Not for everything. Hud elements to make it easier to see how happy your fort is!
Hey Tarn,
This is my first time on the forum but I had a few questions.
1. Will there be new types of generated playable races that come with the magic update?
Welcome to the Forum! Hope you stay around!
3. I'm excited about the prospect of in the post-magic update, trying to delve into worlds with a lot of magic and make sense of it all. But I'm wondering if given all the possible strange beings, realms, and magic systems, how much would the core gameplay of dwarf fortress still be usable? Would it be common for fortresses to be basically unplayably difficult, embarrassingly easy, or just there be fewer relevant gameplay features given the presence of non-dwarves? I guess what I'm trying to say is, are the more magical generated worlds going to be free to be game-breakingly strange, or will there be focus on making a game loop resistant to some of the wild aspects coming with the magic release?
Thanks for everything Toady and Kitfox! Very excited for the future of Dwarf Fortress!
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2. Going forward, will Kitfox remain in the picture in order to create new artwork as new creatures/tiles may be added?
:
1. How will naked creatures be handled in the steam release?(I have unfortunately run into some naked people in taverns)Some necromancer experiments have already been posted in the official thread on the tileset. (Or perhaps it was only night-trolls, I forget)?
2. Sometime in the next few months can we see some screenshots of animal people and escaped necromancer experiments?
:
And if it possible make in future make open data file for community localisation in other lenguages?
:
Are powers unique to the individual on the table for the magic update?
1. Is any more adventure mode crafting coming in the near future, Such as wood and stone weapons crafting, cooking or clothes crafting?
2. In adventure mode, the zones menu brings up a 'craft guildhall' option, does this have any purpose in adventure mode?
3.
a. Are there plans to make the other main races become Outsider controllable, and if so, will Outsiders be able to create groups to claim their camps?
b. And are there plans for giving String names to items and groups
4. I read that apparently there are plans to add the ability to romance ncps and play as an heir in adventure mode, how would this be implemented especially with the slowing of time in adventure mode?
5. Are there plans to have tavern games? And If so, would these games like chess or tic tac toe (by different in-game names of course) open up a new interface to have the player directly compete with an A.I, or would it be like how performances are done where a moment passes and its completed?
Quote from: ror6axWhat changes to adventure mode are planned for Steam release?Quote from: falccToady, do you have any loose plans for what the new adventure mode UI is going to be like, prior to the post-steam rewrites? For example:
1) Are you getting rid of the letter-based inventory?
2) Will interact with items, inventory, wear, drink/eat, etc stay in different menus or will there be all kinds of since-invented clicking interactions? If the latter what do you think you'll do with all those spare keyboard keys?
3) Will there still be roughly the same number of button presses for directed combat since the easy mode of just arrow buttoning towards an enemy is already implemented?
4) Will there be any changes to conversation filtering?
5) Any chance of a little speech bubble next to a sprite when a creature is talking?
Has there been any graphic work done to the intro cinematic? Are there any changes planned for the intro cinematic, either for this release or long term?
Following Df talk with Brian Bucklew - have you played Caves of Qud?
What do you think of it's UI?
Have you seen new UI being developed - https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/ho140h/ui_design_of_the_game_caves_of_qud_finished/ ?
Any thoughts on this top-bottom approach vs DF's apparently opposite approach - from details to the wide picture.
Quote from: TrevorBOB91. I know even after Steam releases Kitfox is going to be very busy with fixes, improvements, keeping up with updates, etc. But is it possible that a successful release might lead to them or a different developer porting the Steam release to the Switch or other consoles?
2. I don’t know how you feel about slightly personal questions, but is there any particular significance behind the name “Tarn”? I’ve never heard of it anywhere else.Quote from: Buttery_Mess-TrevorBOB9 asked about releases for other platforms. I remembered that Steam support for Linux is pretty good. Is the Steam release going to be Linux compatible? Have you thought about an android release- with the GUI improvements, this seems more reasonable.
If you only travel by night, sneak well, swim through sewers to avoid leaving tracks, and stay out of sight the entire time can you keep the artifacts you steal from generating rumors of their actual location indefinitely? If you manage to keep the rumors down this way could you still return the item for positive reputation or does there need to be intervening rumors about it being taken?
In the recent images, the UI for zones doesn't represent hotkeys. Is this a decision that was made for aesthetic reasons, are details of the keyboard controls being reconsidered (and meaning that hotkey representation could change a lot), or is it just not there currently for another reason? Are there any particular thoughts about how keyboard usability will change in the steam/itch version? Most everything I've seen is about the new UI stuff, but personally this is one of the screens where I haven't memorized them and find it handy to have them listed. I'm sure there will also be plenty of new players who don't know that stuff but would rather use keyboard either for general efficiency or accessibility (mouse requires far greater manual abilities), so making that stuff easy to see is handy.
Looks like a forum update was queued but forgotten about, will you be getting around to this soon?
EDIT: I'm primarily interested in getting us up on https.
Just wondering as I don't see it on the Steam page anywhere, are you dropping the whole "Slaves to Armok, God of Blood" subtitle thing for Steam release?
Currently certain screens, like the military screen, do not scale with increased window size. Will all screens be fully scaleable in the Steam release, and therefore, will all screens be fully scaleable in the legacy release?
Several screens currently lock important information away from the player. For exaple, when a liason springs the barony nomination on you, there's no way to browse dwarf personalities and such like before leaving the nomination screen. You get a similar situation on the trade good requests screen. Will these screens be rethought for the next release? Either as a pop-up, a returnable-to prompt, nested unit screen menu or nested stock screen menu? I ask because it seems like at this point, you'll be forced to rethink just to make it graphical.
There are some elements of the UI that don't seem to be working as intended. For example, I noted that it's not possible to select generic leather as a material for shields or shell as a material for leggings on the military>uniform screen (or if it is there, it's rather hard to find.) I suppose my question is, are you planning on redesigning the interface as you tart it up in order to wring out all the quirks and bugs, or just tart it up, or tart it up and fix quirks and bugs, but not going so far as a complete redesign?
I have seen that you've already added nice features to the embark screen. I wondered if the trade menu was going to get similar treatment? I was buying gemstones earlier and this involved several minutes of hitting down, enter, down, enter... it made me think, can we expect to see general GUI features like being able to drag a box around multiple items, holding control to add items to a list on top of that, and so on?
I get the feeling that every screen and menu function in DF was scratch-coded from the bottom up every time a new feature was added to the game. Are you going back and replacing each unique menu with something more like a generic abstract interface now? Do you think this will make it easier to add new features in the future?
TrevorBOB9 asked about releases for other platforms. I remembered that Steam support for Linux is pretty good. Is the Steam release going to be Linux compatible? Have you thought about an android release- with the GUI improvements, this seems more reasonable.
I believe you've stated in the podcasts that you're not particularly enjoying UI work, is that true? What of it is the most rewarding aspect to you, and what's the least rewarding?
On the Wiki, there are listed some physical equations behind penetration of layers and how that interacts with tissue damage and armor in combat; I have been told these are from DF2012. The relevant equations are under https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Weapon#Combat_formulae as:
1. M = Skill * Size * Str * Vel / (10^6 * (1 + i_Size/(w_density*w_size))
2. M >= (aSY/wSY + (A+1)*aSF/wSF) * (10 + 2*a_quality) / (Sha * w_quality)
3. 2 * w_size * wIY > A * a_density
4. M >= (2*aIF - aIY) * (2 + 0.4*a_quality) * A
Anyways, I am a physics nerd, and I would like to ask you what the true (and new) equations are and how they are used, so we can post them on the wiki and also marvel at your genius. We could use DFHack to figure it out instead of bugging you, but we might get the equations wrong (as, from what I can tell, at least one of the equations on the Wiki mixes units in rather horrifying ways).
Can you describe where the data to populate the military equipment screen lists comes from? We can tell when the UI list is corrupted, but we need to know where the data is stored to potentially repair it with DFHack.
Regarding the UI in the new video, categorically, it looks great. Not sure the three types of food would be what I'd have put on the top bar but considering how much spare space there is, seems reasonable until the caravan arc comes to fuller fruition and other forms of wealth become available. What's the nature of the considerations for what types of resource are likely to be valuable to the player, and what resources or other elements have priority in the new UI? To what degree is it customizable, or (more likely) to what degree are possibilities of customizable UI being discussed? It would be cool if it were configurable so if, for example, you were working on a megaproject you could have stone (or even specific types of stone) on the bar.
Also, a minor question but what is the conceptual distinction between lower left, lower center, and lower right UI buttons? How might other things not yet represented be incorporated as UI work continues? Seems roughly like designations, various types of area that aren't designations, and then the escape menu and map? But that leaves a handful of things that you could get in one keypress that don't yet have a clickable button, notably everything to do with military (which I know is a much bigger topic).
1. Will there be new types of generated playable races that come with the magic update?
2. Going forward, will Kitfox remain in the picture in order to create new artwork as new creatures/tiles may be added?
3. I'm excited about the prospect of in the post-magic update, trying to delve into worlds with a lot of magic and make sense of it all. But I'm wondering if given all the possible strange beings, realms, and magic systems, how much would the core gameplay of dwarf fortress still be usable? Would it be common for fortresses to be basically unplayably difficult, embarrassingly easy, or just there be fewer relevant gameplay features given the presence of non-dwarves? I guess what I'm trying to say is, are the more magical generated worlds going to be free to be game-breakingly strange, or will there be focus on making a game loop resistant to some of the wild aspects coming with the magic release?
1. At the top of the devlog pages of past years, e.g. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2017.html, why "Development in 2015 (RSS Feed)"?
2. Could you set up redirects between "http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#year-date" and "http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_year.html#year-date" for applicable years/dates? Lots of "old" links (2015-2019 I believe) were broken by the remodeling, and it by the look of it all links to 2020-logs i.e. "http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2020-date" will break at the end of the year as well.
I vaguely remember the idea of introducing larger machinery to fort mode being discussed before, possibly going as far as having moving forts. Would the map rewrite make such things possible? I remember the idea being floated of being able to view squads going off map on missions in a little window. Is that possibility a planned feature for the map rewrite? Would that also make ships that come and go a possibility, or will that have to wait until trade and industry?
1. How will naked creatures be handled in the steam release?(I have unfortunately run into some naked people in taverns)
2. Sometime in the next few months can we see some screenshots of animal people and escaped necromancer experiments?
Can you talk please how tiles works in steam version now? I mean render and data structure. In each Z layer it have now many tile layers or some other trick?
And if it possible make in future make open data file for community localisation in other lenguages?
You know you're old when the idea of updates to the status quo make you anxious. I'll stay positive and hope the things I like about the current ui are retained somewhere. I had no idea numpads were disappearing.Disappearing from computers, or from the game?
You know you're old when the idea of updates to the status quo make you anxious. I'll stay positive and hope the things I like about the current ui are retained somewhere. I had no idea numpads were disappearing.They are, at least on laptops. When I bought a new laptop earlier this year only one model within my price range had one... ultimately the one I bought too, but it is very wide due to the numpad so I can see why people chose to buy others, without numpads. Those attachable USB-numpads do exist as a separate purchase for that reason, but the fact that they are separate still means most people won't own one.
Concerning internationalization:The issue isn't translation.
Have you heard of GNU Gettext. From what I can tell it's included in the GNU standard C library and provides a mechanism whereby the developer (primarily by using functions that are basically extended versions of printf, sprintf, et.al.) adds support for internationalization, and then the actual work of translation can be done by someone else* (with translation packs also being able to be distributed separately).
*technically, if the developer has added support for internationalization properly, the translators don't have to coordinate with the developer (or even let the developer know what they are doing). This leads to the possibility of community supported translation in which someone in the forums just up and decides to start a translation. From this point translations essentially become another form of modding (and could possibly have their own sub-forum under "DF Modding").
Anyways, that's my understanding from skimming through the Gettext section of the Glibc info file. I could, of course, be wrong about some/all of the above.
Concerning internationalization:The issue isn't translation.
Have you heard of GNU Gettext. From what I can tell it's included in the GNU standard C library and provides a mechanism whereby the developer (primarily by using functions that are basically extended versions of printf, sprintf, et.al.) adds support for internationalization, and then the actual work of translation can be done by someone else* (with translation packs also being able to be distributed separately).
*technically, if the developer has added support for internationalization properly, the translators don't have to coordinate with the developer (or even let the developer know what they are doing). This leads to the possibility of community supported translation in which someone in the forums just up and decides to start a translation. From this point translations essentially become another form of modding (and could possibly have their own sub-forum under "DF Modding").
Anyways, that's my understanding from skimming through the Gettext section of the Glibc info file. I could, of course, be wrong about some/all of the above.
It's procedurally generated text. Which means it needs to be coded, not translated. It literally uses the grammar rules of English to produce text. To make the game do something else requires new code, and the game isn't Open Source, so that's not happening.
As Toady said, the tooltips and fixed text can all be open. Which is nice. But that won't help you Localize the game.
Let's take an example, say, Japanese.
Worldgen produces a mountain range called "The Mountains of Slaying". OK so fans using whatever system you're talking about quickly translate mountains and slaying in the word lists. But:
1) We need the code to tell the program to drop "the".
2 We need the code to tell the program to swap mountains and slaying into "slaying mountains".
3) We need the code to drop "of" in some cases, but not always.
None of that is "fan inputted translation". It's code that tells the game to obey the grammatical rules of Japanese (in my example, the very easiest ones). That code isn't in the game. That code won't be added by fans to the game.
Not saying it's impossible, but it requires Toady to write an engine in which fans can input their own languages' grammatical rules in addition to words. And, well, quick glance of Google Translate shows that they can't do it properly yet so expecting Toady and some Dwarf Fortress fans to whip up something in their "spare time" is pretty optimistic.
Still not seeing the "translators simply enter the translation" easy localization system. Just some code you've made. You expect translators to enter code for every variation on a sentence that could be generated?The "message catalog" A_Curious_Cat is talking about is something akin to a raw file. People already edit those, and they're not really "code" per-say.
Regarding something like the semi-procedural dragon-generating system that's been discussed as a potential thing that could happen in the future, will that be available in the raws for modders?The intention is to have, as far as possible, everything like this in the raws eventually.
Thanks Toady for answer.If it's grammatically incorrect then it's not localized properly. Also you've chosen quite simple examples. How about the fact that to make the word localized properly in russian you need to know the gender of this word. Also all adjectives related to this word has to know the gender and some verbs also. And i'm not talking about cases. And other languages hvave completely different issues that also has to be handled. That's why it is low priority. After all we have google translate that uses huge amount of resources and smart people to work and still the result is desired to be much better.
In Russian community we have translation of dwarf fortress in russian. But how I understand it was very difficult for translate(mean hack code for translate). It not grammary correct, but it help easy for understand many texts in game. And if it will be possible to translate not harcode blocks of text like mode. For exmaple
names
Urist = Урист
Likot = Ликот
Ubendeb = Убендеб
Hide dead come ! = Прячьтесь, мертвые идут!
end ect.
(https://www.dfwk.ru/images/3/35/Tfn6TDVX.png)
So it no so imposible like you think. Yes it not correct grammaticly, but it possible.
When will be update 47.05?That's a question that won't get an answer. DF releases are made when they're done.
When will be update 47.05?That's a question that won't get an answer. DF releases are made when they're done.
There are essentially two possible scenarios:
1. There won't be any more 0.47.X releases. Instead the next release will be the Premium one, which probably would be called 0.48.01 (or 48.01), as it contains major UI differences compared to the current release, and thus really need a higher major number, even if the contents according to the naming rules still only really qualify it for the 0.47.X. Toady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.
2. Toady tests out the parallel development process and produces 0.47.05 to get some wider feedback on stress adjustments, possibly with some needs tweaks as well. If that happens it probably couldn't be later than the beginning of December in order to get and process feedback into the Premium release. It would have to happen earlier than that if the process should allow for another iteration.
Toady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.
QuoteToady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.
Wait, did he really say this? I was mentally preparing for next year's summer...
What Steam? No. He said "there's a deadline to finish the work, and it's not this year". So it's next year, or later. And then he said how important it is to keep to deadlines. Followed by Tanya at Kitfox making hasty statements during Pax, that she's not pressuring Tarn at all and they can be flexible. So...a while yet. Hopefully see a stress tweak before the end of the year though.QuoteToady has done the unusual thing to say that he aims for that to happen before the end of the year.
Wait, did he really say this? I was mentally preparing for next year's summer...
...there is a deadline (it isn't this year, and I don't want to get into it specifically since it's not the same as a release date. We do not have a release date.)
Yeah that is what I remember, hence my surprise at aiming to do *anything* before *any date*.Funnily enough, that was a reply to PatrikLundell's own question as I recall...
A #2 wouldn't be a major release, so it wouldn't contradict Tanya's statement.
The reason for the posting about stress has died down could also be caused both by people having said what they have to say and gotten tired of repeating the same thing over and over, as well as Threetoe's thread being a very clear indication that they intend to address the issue before the Premium release.
"I've played for years but can't handle stress, so I'm waiting for Premium," is a comment I see about as often as "I want to learn, but I'm waiting for the Steam release," which is to say, both unfortunately very frequently.
There's nothing wrong in those comments, as they're valid sentiments from players. The thing that's wrong/bad is that there's a very valid cause for them: The stress (in)balance is an issue, and it won't go away by itself, but has to be addressed, either sooner or too late (if the Premium release doesn't address it it's going to hurt DF badly. There's only one chance for a first impression, and patch releases can do provide some limited damage control). The comment was made to counter a comment by someone that the number of complaints about the balance has (or may seem to have) diminished over time."I've played for years but can't handle stress, so I'm waiting for Premium," is a comment I see about as often as "I want to learn, but I'm waiting for the Steam release," which is to say, both unfortunately very frequently.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why would there be anything wrong with those comments?
I'm not sure where I saw/heard Toady saying he definitely wanted DF Premium out this year, but it was probably one of the interviews (and I only know about ones linked from this forum, either linked by Toady or someone else).Toady gave a very clear answer (as far as he was able) when we brought it up in Future of the Fortress last month. Which he then confirmed again at Pax. Steam is not due out this year.
in every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?
apologies if this has already been answered elsewhere.
QuoteQuote from: Shonai_DwellerAre the icons sliders and other graphical parts of the interface that you're adding locked to the official tileset? I'm just wondering how the new interface will work for anyone who doesn't buy the Steam version. Or indeed in Steam's curses tileset, is that Curses plus graphical icons? Different icons to match the ASCII style? Presumably all the new rectangle drawing tools and such will be fully functional?Quote from: DGAre all new UI elements and any changes to current ones supporting keyboard only input?
They are locked, insofar as everything else is - it's set up currently as the creature graphics have been, where you link up images with text files and so forth, and the fancy image sets aren't going to be in DF Classic (which is likely what the Steam curses version will be, same as the free one.) That does leave us the question of what DF Classic is, when we've been aiming for "no graphics but as many of the interface improvements as possible." We'll very soon reach a point where the changes will require some sort of substitute. Whether those are literal text buttons (with line outlines and ASCII symbols inside), or something else, is yet to be seen. The way the interface currently works where it still respects the old grid somewhat (rather than the new graphical layer, which doesn't respect the old grid, other than being a grid at all) makes it much easier to handle ASCII parallel work on an ongoing basis.
Yeah, the continuing plan, which seems feasible thus far, is to maintain keyboard alternatives everywhere. There are some questions here and there about how some nested widget might work, if various little tick boxes end up being convenient, and so forth, but having quick key/sequence methods is important.
Sorry in advance if this question has already been asked.Toady mentioned needing to do a settings menu in DFTalk yesterday. Take a listen!
Since the UI is getting a touch up (and by extension the menu) are you planning on moving settings currently found in init.txt and d_init.txt into a "settings" menu so they can be tweaked in-game(if changes to the settings in-game is even possible)?
Next up I have a suggestion (apologies as it is not really an educated one and more just me spitballing after reading the recent post)
have you considered re-scaling and repositioning clothing (and whatever other overlays) based on the animals persons size?
Thanks for your time!
Will the Itch.io/Steam version of Dwarf Fortress include a way for players to see individual dwarves' stress levels? The happiness counter that is a part of DFHack is incredibly useful to see fortress wide how the stress situation is. So I am very happy to see that in the Autumn Dev Update video :) I find it also very helpful to be able to see not just how many dwarves are unhappy, but which ones are at what level of unhappiness so I can spoil them with extra furniture made from their favorite stone, arrange a stockpile in their room of their favorite food and drink, misting them with waterfalls, etc., and cheer them up back from the precipice of insanity.Probably better as a suggestion. But, I guess most things are when asking about the UI as we don't know much about it.
Not numbers, just the same 7 smiley / frowny face types from the UI but for each dwarf. That would be my suggestion, but I'm more curious as to if the individual stress condition of the dwarves is accounted for. I suppose it does border on suggestion territory.
So far, there's only one type of attack and it is only per one creature, AFAIK. Caves of Qud has swipes, jabs, hook-and-grabs, dismembering, bloodletting etc. Shooting enemies with crossbows also may have variations - pinning, blinding, kicking back, suppressing return fire, etc. Would something like this be present in DF? Would you make such "abilities" tied to level of weapon mastery or would it be some other skill tree of sorts?
- Combat flow
- Notion of stance/guard, with varying bonuses/penalties
- Ability to jump up on and ride opponents if they are large enough (can happen to you too of course)
- Not being able to hit a giant in the head, hitting a dragon in the head as a reaction when it attempts to bite
- Notion of overall wrestling position (who is on top of or controlling whom, etc.)
- Combat styles
- Combat styles involving weapons or natural attacks with associated stances and moves
- Ability to learn moves, etc. from others with whom you have a high enough reputation
- Certain moves may only be available as specific counters, while others might just be regular attacks
- Ability to create new moves/styles when highly skilled
So far, there's only one type of attack and it is only per one creature, AFAIK.
Wow. I've attempted playing adventurer a couple of times but I was not aware of any of this. I thought combat is simply "arrowing" into an enemy.
Wow. I've attempted playing adventurer a couple of times but I was not aware of any of this. I thought combat is simply "arrowing" into an enemy.
press 'a' to open the attack menu - tons of options. Your statement is valuable, though - as you're certainly not the only person who missed the very complex combat system in DF. Hopefully the new UI will highlight this stuff easier.
It's Shift+A by default.
Adventure mode feels like a broken game - and this is coming from a fan of "walking simulators"!Shhhhhhs kid! Don't conjure terrible, dark and ancient forces upon youself!
Adventure mode feels like a broken game - and this is coming from a fan of "walking simulators"!
1. With all of the creation myth features being planned, are apocalypses and the end of the world something you have considered adding? If so, how do you envision them working? Would they just end the game or would they be something you can play during or even after?
2. Will the map rewrite allow biomes to change during world gen, either through natural processes or through some kind of artificial or magical means?
One of the aspects of this universe that we wanted to emphasize was the passage between the ages, which is more prominent here than in the last story involving magic (see that story's analysis for more on magic systems and metaphysics, as well as the dev page). There aren't always discrete boundaries -- much like the current DF, the world's balance can change slowly as magical creatures are killed, for example, or as rifts are shut in a multiple-rift/portal apocalypse scenario. Those apocalypse scenarios themselves, on the other hand, set a clear era boundary. The Tales Foretold setting had eight named periods involving two apocalyptic events, and several gradual changes. Sometimes the gradual changes don't involve the fading of magical forces, but rather their growth/flowering through a period of research and stability to the point where the name of the era justifiably changes. The Golden Age and Dulchari period of the Tales Foretold setting worked this way.
We'll save some of the details for a future story, but another aspect of this universe to emphasize is the interconnected mechanics like soul cradles, lines of fate, and material transmutation (in DF, this configuration would be a generated part of one universe). Magical research in the Tales Foretold system involved understanding these building blocks, and then merging them together in new ways. The access to new worlds caused by the first Nightmare Apocalypse allowed additional forms of magic to be incorporated into existing native systems, leading to the more complicated magic used by the Dulchari wizards. When Cenaster separated the world from other planes, certain forms of magic ceased to work, and it also changed the mechanics of the afterlife. In Dwarf Fortress, systematizing the way the basic metaphysical aspects of the world work will cause these effects to happen as consequences of these sorts of disasters, and ideally they'd also be able to adapt to player-led changes in the structure of the universe.
1.Definitely.
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2. Will the map rewrite allow biomes to change during world gen, either through natural processes or through some kind of artificial or magical means?
2. Will the map rewrite allow biomes to change during world gen, either through natural processes or through some kind of artificial or magical means?
Quote from: MalroktheIIITime for my newest round of stupid, far off, likely already asked, questions for you!Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8157663#msg8157663
1:When you change world gen for the myth arc, what specific geographic features are you hoping for (either in general, or in particular)
2: With said new world gen, do you have any thoughts on how will biomes work? If you are planning a change on that front, what?
3: How long until you have working evolution (joke question, but still)
Bonus question: 1&2, but with alternate planes.
The first step with the map rewrite is to create a structure which will support what we want to do, whether that's with planes or real world land/waterforms, etc. In no particular order, one list we have is different distant/time scales, a general framework for world spanning features like rivers that will allow world trees or ley lines or tortoises or whatever), world edges, connectors like rainbow bridges/multiplanar rivers, multiple view ports, boats and moving map segments/shifting mazes, shadow/veil concepts, recursive/fractal/'levels of reality'/micro-macrocosm concepts, non-rectangular world shapes (giant pillar, tubes, giant pit, etc., though we likely won't attempt traditional spheres, as wrapping abilities are limited by the grid), better geological layers/intrusions/cliffs/eroded features, support for linkages between rivers/caves entrances/etc., support for small sites (logging camps, crossroad inns, etc.), support for nomadic groups sites (the current tents the armies use are horrible), ability to support world-spanning settlements, portals (various), faerie-type border zones, infinite worlds (not that there's memory for that, but the ability to reshift focus), liquid/air/etc. based worlds, auras/fields/mists/wtvr and restructure good/evil-type sphere links, compatability with astronomical or larger universe concepts, support for regional/world natural disasters and resulting map changes (and map repair like forest regrowth), places in the clouds, underground oceans and other improved underground linkages/structure/features, consider support for broader liquid/material types in terrain, large vortices/whirlwinds/etc., z-level buildings/doors/etc., merging/mixing planes, teleporting sites, illusions of various kinds (non-tactile, tactile but impermanent in some way.)
No way we're getting to all or even most of that on the first pass! But we're hoping to create a backbone that support it all. I also have a few other lists around that are mostly in that one up there, but I doubt that's everything.
Biomes relate to a lot of that, how they are contained or how they can change and bleed together, and what sort of ecological simming we can get away with. Ultimately we'll still need to have rainfall, temperature, drainage, present species, and that sort of thing, and the existing classifications aren't bad there.
From the bottom of the October 22nd steam update: https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/975370?emclan=103582791464215078&emgid=2930114451182913855 (https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/975370?emclan=103582791464215078&emgid=2930114451182913855),Well, yes, my interpretation of that is that that image allowed you to sort according to dwarf size armor and non dwarf size armor, with humans just being an example. With that interpretation, the non dwarf size armor setting would also receive the useless troll sized and ogre sized junk. Hence the need for more granularity.
"This pile has been set to accept only bronze armor, for example. Not just that, but it'll only accept bronze armor which can be worn by dwarves. If the armor with the X at the top is turned on, it would also accept bronze armor for humans, which might show up in an invasion. This allows you to separate out junk, for example, so you can melt it down more easily. Note also that you can rule objects in and out by type, by quality, and so on."
I like the idea of being able to separate out junk for easier melting / trading away. Worn clothing also tends to accumulate fairly quickly.
What other criteria might be available to sort items by in stockpiles?
Does are any plans of making trade depots an "area" like worshops in the future?DF currently has trouble with multiple trade depots (although that can very well have been fixed before that far off future event). Dedications to trade goods makes sense only if caravans are dedicated, although market places could be dedicated while caravans still visited the depot. However, I don't know what use a market place would be of in a fortress, unless dorf actually earn money (in whatever form) and have to spend it to get things (unless it's a fortress assigned military uniform, or tool). Multiple markets seem to be a recipe for wasting a lot of space, though.
This got me thinking, once economy is started again, a single trade depot would work? What about having several "depots" at once, each dedicated to specific goods or trade partners, different sizes and whatnot. Or having a single huge market area for everyone, external an internal traders?
Sorry if it derived towards a suggestion, the main question is still adecuate I think.
Concerning internationalization:
Have you heard of GNU Gettext. From what I can tell it's included in the GNU standard C library and provides a mechanism whereby the developer (primarily by using functions that are basically extended versions of printf, sprintf, et.al.) adds support for internationalization, and then the actual work of translation can be done by someone else* (with translation packs also being able to be distributed separately).
*technically, if the developer has added support for internationalization properly, the translators don't have to coordinate with the developer (or even let the developer know what they are doing). This leads to the possibility of community supported translation in which someone in the forums just up and decides to start a translation. From this point translations essentially become another form of modding (and could possibly have their own sub-forum under "DF Modding").
Anyways, that's my understanding from skimming through the Gettext section of the Glibc info file. I could, of course, be wrong about some/all of the above.
Regarding something like the semi-procedural dragon-generating system that's been discussed as a potential thing that could happen in the future, will that be available in the raws for modders?
When will be update 47.05?
in every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?
Since the UI is getting a touch up (and by extension the menu) are you planning on moving settings currently found in init.txt and d_init.txt into a "settings" menu so they can be tweaked in-game(if changes to the settings in-game is even possible)?
Will the Itch.io/Steam version of Dwarf Fortress include a way for players to see individual dwarves' stress levels? The happiness counter that is a part of DFHack is incredibly useful to see fortress wide how the stress situation is. So I am very happy to see that in the Autumn Dev Update video :) I find it also very helpful to be able to see not just how many dwarves are unhappy, but which ones are at what level of unhappiness so I can spoil them with extra furniture made from their favorite stone, arrange a stockpile in their room of their favorite food and drink, misting them with waterfalls, etc., and cheer them up back from the precipice of insanity.
1) Relating to a question in the recent DF talk but maybe less severe: Will there be any way to let Goblins or other non-undead non-drinkers enjoy some food and booze just to sate their intemperance while they live at the fort?
2) If you make enough sweet, sweet, steam money will you keep the graphics artists working on to expand the graphics that make it into the steam release? For example making more complicated animal people images, more available parts for generated creatures, or making cool effects for magic?
3) You talked about improving military commands in the near future, as well as enemy armies doing things like building humiliating statues at your fort. Do you have any plans for armies to show up only planning to capture the single well-armed squad you send out to face them? How about having night trolls showing up to fulfill their kidnapping desires?
I have a small question. Will part of the future military/armies update also include things like rebalancing bows and crossbows? Fixing how slow they are, fixing how dwarves will run up and start smashing enemies with their crossbows unless they have no direct path to them, and other such quirks. Okay, two questions. Would this also include making Throwing less ridiculous?
So far, there's only one type of attack and it is only per one creature, AFAIK. Caves of Qud has swipes, jabs, hook-and-grabs, dismembering, bloodletting etc. Shooting enemies with crossbows also may have variations - pinning, blinding, kicking back, suppressing return fire, etc. Would something like this be present in DF? Would you make such "abilities" tied to level of weapon mastery or would it be some other skill tree of sorts?
Will next release contains more about night creatures?
Quote from: RoseHow will the stockpile size selector work when you have multiple sized people in your fortress?
I want true multicultural forts.Quote from: Schmaven"This pile has been set to accept only bronze armor, for example. Not just that, but it'll only accept bronze armor which can be worn by dwarves. If the armor with the X at the top is turned on, it would also accept bronze armor for humans, which might show up in an invasion. This allows you to separate out junk, for example, so you can melt it down more easily. Note also that you can rule objects in and out by type, by quality, and so on."
I like the idea of being able to separate out junk for easier melting / trading away. Worn clothing also tends to accumulate fairly quickly.
What other criteria might be available to sort items by in stockpiles?
Do you have any plans to take s second pass at trees and tree growth? It occurs to me that DF vanilla elves are supposed to have tree shaping magic, so M&M would be an opportunity to look at plants. I'm not saying the way trees grow is bad- it's a world of improvement over the prior 1 tile trees- but the way they burst out of the ground suddenly fully formed, and die in a puff of logs, could use a little more granularity, and it would be nice if dwarves could plant trees or suppress tree growth. Would the map rewrite help with this, for instance, making it possible to rotate felled trees through a horizontal dimension, or to render arbitrarily large or ambulatory trees (like a World Tree or Treant?)
Sorry if this comes across suggesty, I was just wondering if it might be in the cards.
1. With all of the creation myth features being planned, are apocalypses and the end of the world something you have considered adding? If so, how do you envision them working? Would they just end the game or would they be something you can play during or even after?
2. Will the map rewrite allow biomes to change during world gen, either through natural processes or through some kind of artificial or magical means?
Does are any plans of making trade depots an "area" like worshops in the future?
This got me thinking, once economy is started again, a single trade depot would work? What about having several "depots" at once, each dedicated to specific goods or trade partners, different sizes and whatnot. Or having a single huge market area for everyone, external an internal traders?
Sorry if it derived towards a suggestion, the main question is still adecuate I think.
About what percent of creatures do you have sprites for so far?
Some questions:2) Hyperlinks were mentioned in a recent interview (Dftalk, maybe?). Like the interface from the Mythgen demo.
1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?
2. I haven't heard much about planned changes to the legends mode interface yet. Any concrete plans here? Better navigation, search, maybe event filtering?
3. Related, but probably more of a long-term thing: Would it be possible to make legends mode accessible from other game modes? Because I feel like that's where most of the game's true depth is, but that depth isn't really visible when playing adventure or fortress mode. Alternatively, have you thought about using the UI revamp to expose more legends info, for instance on artefacts' or visitors' history?
Some questions:2) Hyperlinks were mentioned in a recent interview (Dftalk, maybe?). Like the interface from the Mythgen demo.
1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?
2. I haven't heard much about planned changes to the legends mode interface yet. Any concrete plans here? Better navigation, search, maybe event filtering?
3. Related, but probably more of a long-term thing: Would it be possible to make legends mode accessible from other game modes? Because I feel like that's where most of the game's true depth is, but that depth isn't really visible when playing adventure or fortress mode. Alternatively, have you thought about using the UI revamp to expose more legends info, for instance on artefacts' or visitors' history?
[talking about information overload]Then they go into information handling in adventure mode and don't mention legends again. The conversation is interesting, but doesn't really answer 3).
Toady: Yeah, and that's another question about Steam players and stuff, it is just a giant brick, right, of text; should we enter like the age of the tab, the age of highlighting certain more important information?
Capntastic: Hyperlinks.
Toady: Hyperlinks in Legends mode especially, that's well on the table. Wouldn't it be great, to click on somebody's name in Adventure mode, instead of having to write it down on a scrap of paper, as I have done many times.
In the fortress mode it has been considered that we can generate waste that we have to channel through a sewer system?There are long discussions in Suggestions regarding it, yes. Toady reads the Suggestions threads but hasn't yet indicated a big "waste arc" yet. Would be good though.
Some questions:
1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?
2. I haven't heard much about planned changes to the legends mode interface yet. Any concrete plans here? Better navigation, search, maybe event filtering?
3. Related, but probably more of a long-term thing: Would it be possible to make legends mode accessible from other game modes? Because I feel like that's where most of the game's true depth is, but that depth isn't really visible when playing adventure or fortress mode. Alternatively, have you thought about using the UI revamp to expose more legends info, for instance on artefacts' or visitors' history?
There was that distant time when legends mode was going to be about the information you've uncovered in all of your games, but it's really moved away from that - and the volume of information is so large now (and mostly uninteresting by itself) that that seems fine. However, when we get to the origin of the world and the big ticket secrets, that seems like something we'll definitely be doing again. For all of the other little secrets, yeah, I dunno. There's a lot of stuff you kind of shouldn't know now, concerning plots and so forth, but legends mode doesn't read well without them. It might be something more like letting you look at a sort of legends mode from the other modes, with only the things you should know, which I think was always in the cards but has some difficulties in terms of information tracking.
There's this answer (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8004239;topicseen#msg8004239) from a while back regarding certain parts of legends mode remaining secret that gives somewhat of an answer to number 3:Quote from: ToadyOneThere was that distant time when legends mode was going to be about the information you've uncovered in all of your games, but it's really moved away from that - and the volume of information is so large now (and mostly uninteresting by itself) that that seems fine. However, when we get to the origin of the world and the big ticket secrets, that seems like something we'll definitely be doing again. For all of the other little secrets, yeah, I dunno. There's a lot of stuff you kind of shouldn't know now, concerning plots and so forth, but legends mode doesn't read well without them. It might be something more like letting you look at a sort of legends mode from the other modes, with only the things you should know, which I think was always in the cards but has some difficulties in terms of information tracking.
Some questions:I'm sure Toady has some ideas, but I wouldn't expect him to go into details, as he tends to not to want to appear to promise something, as that tends to result in complaints when someone's pet bug turned out to be too hard to fix, or wouldn't make it in time wise.
1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?
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I am sure this is far too many questions. Feel free to ignore as many of them as you want. The examples I give are merely to illustrate my points, they are not direct suggestions.Welcome to the Forum. Hope you stick around! Toady isnt currently working on Seiges right now. So you may want to save these questions when they are. As you're not likely to get any substantive answer, beyond, "we'll see", "sounds goods", or "i dont know".
1:With the siege rework, will necromancers (and similar night creatures) be affected, as far as tactics go?
2:Will the personality and/or emotional state, in addition of a commanding officer affect tactics (or even lead to mistakes on the sieging armies part)?
3:Will army morale or, possibly general army mood (eg: the general mood of the sieging army is vengeful, after you assassinated their commanding officer with a balista) be a thing? (Or if it is, will it be a more significant factor?
3b:If morale/mood is a thing, how deep would it go (whole army, squads, all of a certain race or religion in an army, etc)
4:Are/Will actual officers which can lead an army/part of an army be a thing?
5:Will importance be given to certain groups an an army, with certain groups being treated as expendable (eg: mindless undead, trolls, less skilled squads), with others being granted specialized tasks, like flanking while some of the expendable keeps the fort busy, or going in to take prisoners and loot (and then maybe running off) (Perhaps the officers backstory (race, personality, current civ, previous civs, religious affiliation, orders, likes/dislikes, current mood) might effect it
6:Will enemies attempt to take and hold (and maybe even fortify) sections of fort, if they feel that going further in (without time to dig) means death (eg: you have a trap hall between your forges and farms, and they only have the forges), perhaps using/looting the sections they took, only destroying it (after taking all the valuables they can steal) if they are about to be driven out.
7:I saw something about conquerors adding new (and possibly humiliating) things to the forts they take. What other things besides that would they add? What does it entail?
8: Will (especially if you abandon the fort during a siege) any prisoners/ slaves be taken from your populations.
9:Will there be any direct/special behaviors for certain armies eg: elves/goblins eating corpses, or necromancers taking time to raise the dead between attack waves, or humans making actual camps which they rest in between waves (like, actual constructions, as opposed to them sitting in a corner or something) or dwarves digging down and releasing the hfs?(joke, don’t make dwarves so that please)
10:Will invading enemies have new goals besides conquering the fortress (or, maybe having secondary goals to fall back on if they fail to conquer the fort)
Feel free to ignore the examples here, these would probably do better in suggestions.
Some examples would be stealing/recovering(if the fort stole it) an artifact, freeing prisoners (cage traps), secretly subverting defenses (secret tunnels), acting as a vanguard for a larger force (Lay enough infrastructure down and soften the fort enough do that the incoming force can crush it),Doing a certain amount of damage/killings/kidnappings (either as retribution, a culling, a demand for tribute, or, if used alternately, a draft/tithe), killing/kidnapping a king/militia captain/ other position holder, killing/kidnapping a non-position holder, a cleansing (killing vampires, werecreatures, and necromancers specifically), ethnic cleansing (kill elves only (like those tavern dancers)), looting as much as possible, taking slaves/prisoners, or a scouting mission (probe defenses).
10a:If you would add extra goals, would some of them be tied to the villain system (assuming you add the left out features at some point), eg: a spy telling the anti necromancer alliance that you specifically harbor necromancers(which might be false), causing for them to send a force to slay the existential threat, or a spy making a secret tunnel for the goblins, or a villain dwarf becoming king by convincing the goblin spy to send information such that the next siege is out to specifically kidnap/kill the king.
Regarding Steam: Given DF's extreme long-term development roadmap, are you planning to release the game labeled as Early Access? Also, will Steam have its' own bug reporting, or will you redirect Steam players to Mantis?Last word was that he didn't want to do early access, as that would imply there was a complete game on the way sometime soon before Steam goes bankrupt in 30 years time. Will likely be up to Steam in the end though. Unreal World isn't Early Access and that a very similar model with a similar "might take two or three more lifetimes to finish everything" development plan.
DF is similar to UrW in the sense that both are eternity projects, but extremely dissimilar in that UrW is focused on keeping the game playable and as bug free as humanly possible, while DF is a "you're along for the ride" project where adding stuff is much more important than balance, playability, and bugs. The commercial launch of DF may well result in the project being pushed to give a higher weight to playability and bug fixing than what's been the case in the past, but it's extremely unlikely that it will come anywhere close to the UrW development model (and I'm not sure that would be good for either DF or Toady anyway).Regarding Steam: Given DF's extreme long-term development roadmap, are you planning to release the game labeled as Early Access? Also, will Steam have its' own bug reporting, or will you redirect Steam players to Mantis?Last word was that he didn't want to do early access, as that would imply there was a complete game on the way sometime soon before Steam goes bankrupt in 30 years time. Will likely be up to Steam in the end though. Unreal World isn't Early Access and that a very similar model with a similar "might take two or three more lifetimes to finish everything" development plan.
Steam gives you access to a tileset and music tracks. It's the same game otherwise. Two bug trackers would be meaningless.
So you think Steam will force an Early Access label on Dwarf Fortress because it has bugs?DF is similar to UrW in the sense that both are eternity projects, but extremely dissimilar in that UrW is focused on keeping the game playable and as bug free as humanly possible, while DF is a "you're along for the ride" project where adding stuff is much more important than balance, playability, and bugs. The commercial launch of DF may well result in the project being pushed to give a higher weight to playability and bug fixing than what's been the case in the past, but it's extremely unlikely that it will come anywhere close to the UrW development model (and I'm not sure that would be good for either DF or Toady anyway).Regarding Steam: Given DF's extreme long-term development roadmap, are you planning to release the game labeled as Early Access? Also, will Steam have its' own bug reporting, or will you redirect Steam players to Mantis?Last word was that he didn't want to do early access, as that would imply there was a complete game on the way sometime soon before Steam goes bankrupt in 30 years time. Will likely be up to Steam in the end though. Unreal World isn't Early Access and that a very similar model with a similar "might take two or three more lifetimes to finish everything" development plan.
Steam gives you access to a tileset and music tracks. It's the same game otherwise. Two bug trackers would be meaningless.
:No. I've made the mistake of donating to Steam in the hope of being granted a license to play a game (which was granted, as expected), only to find it ended abruptly (as in: the story arc didn't have any continuation, with the sandbox part still active) well before an expected halfway point. A number of years later it's supposedly finished. Thus, I doubt Steam cares much, and so my totally uneducated guess is that they won't force the label on DF.
So you think Steam will force an Early Access label on Dwarf Fortress because it has bugs?
:No. I've made the mistake of donating to Steam in the hope of being granted a license to play a game (which was granted, as expected), only to find it ended abruptly (as in: the story arc didn't have any continuation, with the sandbox part still active) well before an expected halfway point. A number of years later it's supposedly finished. Thus, I doubt Steam cares much, and so my totally uneducated guess is that they won't force the label on DF.
So you think Steam will force an Early Access label on Dwarf Fortress because it has bugs?
My point was that the comparison between UrW and DF isn't a fair one. The former is a polished game in perpetual development, while the latter is riddled with bugs and half finished features similar to what you'd expect in Early Access (at least for the cases where it isn't more like early alpha), with no indication that the situation would change drastically before nearing completion. I still believe DF should use the Early Access tag, as it would better describe the game's state and future (in the absence of a Perpetual Development indication that still would need to be qualified).
Nowadays graphic work and Interface design for Steam version is focused in Fortress mode. I remember having read once that is not the same making tiles for Fortress mode than Adventure mode due some diferences betwen both ones. It's possible that I can be in a mistake, for that reason I decided not colour my question in green lime until somebody could say me if I was wrong or not.
My question:
How much of done graphic work could be represented in adventure mode in this moment? How differents are both modes respect to tiles or interfaces implementation? Could it mean double task?
Nowadays graphic work and Interface design for Steam version is focused in Fortress mode. I remember having read once that is not the same making tiles for Fortress mode than Adventure mode due some diferences betwen both ones. It's possible that I can be in a mistake, for that reason I decided not colour my question in green lime until somebody could say me if I was wrong or not.
My question:
How much of done graphic work could be represented in adventure mode in this moment? How differents are both modes respect to tiles or interfaces implementation? Could it mean double task?
Even if the answer is known by some fringe of the community, there’s nothing wrong with asking a question directly to Tarn. If it is answered in this thread before the end of the month, he’ll link to the answers and say ”yeah what they said” in the FotF reply, and that way others that didn’t know it and who don’t comb this thread still get to know the answer.
I want to ask this question, but I have a feeling its already been asked before though I can't find it in a search of the thread. Has anyone asked Toady if Werebeasts/Vampires will change their personality after being cursed in response to their nature in future versions. Because as I understand it, they continue on acting as normal until they need to feed or the fullmoon strikes. Also other dwarfs cannot remember a specific dwarf being the werebeast even if it slaughters people in front of them after transforming.Don't recall it so you may as well ask. Although it's more of a suggestion than a question about upcoming plans. Nothing's planned specifically for werebeasts in the near future (although Mythgen when we eventually get there will likely get them looked at again).
Does anyone know if this question has been asked in an older version of this thread?
1. Have you considered opening an official DF swag shop? It would surely put a few coins in the piggybank...Well, your promise promises a gross income from such a shop, but unless you can make a production on demand deal with no minimum volumes or deal setup costs, Toady is going to have to take a risk by putting money into making deals and getting stock, so there's no guaranteed positive economic outcome.
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Will this new tileset be easily modable ?
I'm not convinced with what I saw.
missing depth and perspective, colors looks washed, total lack of character.
Will this new tileset be easily modable ?
I'm not convinced with what I saw.
missing depth and perspective, colors looks washed, total lack of character.
Yes. Afaik many of the existing graphics sets (at least those using TWBT) will be updated to match Premium as well, so soonish after the release there will be alternatives to the vanilla graphics.
If you want anything other than a slice-by-slice 2D view though, for more "depth and perspective", you'll have to use third-party visualizers like Stonesense or Armok Vision.
1. Have you considered opening an official DF swag shop? It would surely put a few coins in the piggybank...
Do you mean multi-level view is no longer going to be supported?[snip][snip]
missing depth and perspective, colors looks washed, total lack of character.
If you want anything other than a slice-by-slice 2D view though, for more "depth and perspective", you'll have to use third-party visualizers like Stonesense or Armok Vision.
Will this new tileset be easily modable ?
I'm not convinced with what I saw.
missing depth and perspective, colors looks washed, total lack of character.
Yes. Afaik many of the existing graphics sets (at least those using TWBT) will be updated to match Premium as well, so soonish after the release there will be alternatives to the vanilla graphics.
If you want anything other than a slice-by-slice 2D view though, for more "depth and perspective", you'll have to use third-party visualizers like Stonesense or Armok Vision.
Do you mean multi-level view is no longer going to be supported?
Why RAISED_GHOST interactions are currently removed from the game?Too many bugs.
2. M >= (aSY/wSY + (A+1)*aSF/wSF) * (10 + 2*a_quality) / (Sha * w_quality)
Will there be a fix of famously useless professions / workshop entries before Steam release? As far as I am aware it's only a matter of adding some entries in raw files so it should be really easy compared to all the bug-fixing.Which are these? The alchemist profession? The liquid fire a mog hopper juice reactions? Asking out of curiosity, and as a clearer question will lead to a clearer answer as well.
Will there be a fix of famously useless professions / workshop entries before Steam release? As far as I am aware it's only a matter of adding some entries in raw files so it should be really easy compared to all the bug-fixing.Everything is really easy compared to hard things. Problem is there are thousands and thousands of them and some things (like making a UI) have to be prioritized over....whatever you're asking for here. Probably ought to clarify. Things that are "famous" to a niche portion of forum people likely aren't known through subtle hints to anyone else, including the people who make the game.
I think he's probably talking about stuff like fish dissection. I'm pretty sure most people who play the game have had enough legendary fish dissectors arrive at their fort to know how useless that skill is.
Honestly I'd rate the fact that migrants can waste their lives learning terrible skills that make even stuff like beekeeping seem good in comparison is probably more subtly impactful to the game's experience than a lot of stuff people complain about, and I'm sure that more players have started cursing and been frustrated at waves of legendary cheesemakers than the wagon despawning bug, or raid based crashing, or the age of goblins or any of bugs that seem bigger on the surface.
Its also probably not good for getting new players in if they see skills like animal caretaking and try to figure out what it does, not knowing that the answer is "pretty much nothing".
I think he's probably talking about stuff like fish dissection. I'm pretty sure most people who play the game have had enough legendary fish dissectors arrive and their fort to know how useless that skill is.
Can we have a separate thread for Steam achievement ideas?http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175041 It already exists. ;)
These are reading more and more like suggestions. Put them over in the suggestions forum for better handling (especially if you have more).I think he's probably talking about stuff like fish dissection. I'm pretty sure most people who play the game have had enough legendary fish dissectors arrive and their fort to know how useless that skill is.Basically I meant extending extracts made in various workshops - https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Extracts is very empty.
On a similar note, making cooked foods cost less and paper industry products cost more would also be a simple fix, but one that prevents severe imbalance that leads to either ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard gameplay experience without any reason whatsoever.
Can we have a separate thread for Steam achievement ideas?http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175041 It already exists. ;)These are reading more and more like suggestions. Put them over in the suggestions forum for better handling (especially if you have more).I think he's probably talking about stuff like fish dissection. I'm pretty sure most people who play the game have had enough legendary fish dissectors arrive and their fort to know how useless that skill is.Basically I meant extending extracts made in various workshops - https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Extracts is very empty.
On a similar note, making cooked foods cost less and paper industry products cost more would also be a simple fix, but one that prevents severe imbalance that leads to either ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard gameplay experience without any reason whatsoever.
Your original question then was, "Will you expand the workshop extracts system for Steam release (as it seems incomplete)"?Can we have a separate thread for Steam achievement ideas?http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175041 It already exists. ;)These are reading more and more like suggestions. Put them over in the suggestions forum for better handling (especially if you have more).I think he's probably talking about stuff like fish dissection. I'm pretty sure most people who play the game have had enough legendary fish dissectors arrive and their fort to know how useless that skill is.Basically I meant extending extracts made in various workshops - https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Extracts is very empty.
On a similar note, making cooked foods cost less and paper industry products cost more would also be a simple fix, but one that prevents severe imbalance that leads to either ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard gameplay experience without any reason whatsoever.
My apologies to all, then, for trying to help - it just seems to be what happens when you try to include proper context to the original question, hence the limegreening on my part.
Just curious, is there an integration test suite or every release gets manually playtested for not introducing bugs?Playtested by whom? Scamps?
Just curious, is there an integration test suite or every release gets manually playtested for not introducing bugs?Playtested by whom? Scamps?
I'm starting to feel like I'm upsetting people by asking questions to what is supposed to be a AMA thread.
What are the current plans for alchemy? Any chance for some of them to get implemented during the myths & magic arc?
Quote from: Beag1. In terms of magical crafting in the first pass of the myth and magic update will there be forms of magic crafting that require stationary work areas such as an alchemy lab or run scribing table? If so would an adventurer in those worlds be able to participate in magic crafting if they found one of those work areas or would such crafting be fortress mode only?PatrikLundell said "It's probably too early to say what will and what will not appear in the *first* Myth & Magic arc," and I'd like to emphasize that; for many questions, I'm just not going to be able to provide a timeline, though we've committed to certain bits or themes for the first pass.
[...]
1. On the one hand, adventurers can't use most workshops and the most industrialized magic forms might end up falling into this pattern. However, on the other, we'd be pretty invested in having adventurer involvement throughout here.
[...]
Quote from: JesterHell696Do you think dynamic combination of magic will be possible with magic, an example being mixing water and fire magic on the fly to create steam or fire and earth to create magma or would such combinations need to be predefined?Something needs to be defined somewhere; what the atoms are is up to the system. If we rely on chemistry etc. out in the typical game mechanics, we'll have the things we current have (magma and water produces steam and obsidian etc), plus anything that is explicitly added. If the system uses predefined conceptual nodes, like the spheres, then they can hop around the friend/parent/child/opposition relationships they have, and spell effects might be related to that. So, as a potential example, a light effect might miscast into a (generated) sun effect, which could be very bad -- I'm not sure what we'll have in this first pass, but this is the sort of thing that should be natural for it to do, as sphere-effect coverage grows. There's also a cross-over zone with stuff like the "sphere" regions; if a region is interacted with and its attached symbols change, then its properties might shift dynamically.
We don't currently have a (possibly generated?) sphere/concept math, like <sphere:earth> + <sphere:water> =e.g.= <sphere:muck>, but this sort of thing is possible and might come in with alchemy. There are various ways this can be done, and we've toyed around with a few of them in side projects. Not all ~120 spheres need to be represented; it could pick, say, 8 sufficiently "far apart" spheres at random, and then use whatever mixing system and generic sphere-effect generators to handle situations, with coverage and possibilities being increased as we add effects and conceptual linkages.
My anticipation now is that we'll have some of this to start, a few classes of generated system with this kind of behavior, and then it will improve and broaden over time.
Quote from: Renarin21[...][...]
9. Will certain symbols become recurring and socially relevant? (ex: in various ancient real-life cultures, horns are considered a sign of power, and some speculate that crowns symbolically replicate them)
[...]
9. We have entity symbols now, they just aren't done well and don't feed into a larger symbolism. Magic symbolism will probably come in before cultural symbolism, just because of the release order and the likelihood that e.g. any form of 'alchemy' or 'potion-making' will require that sort of thing.
[...]
I know big part of comminity that like to play with funny bugs, like catsplosion. Why you don't release 'unstable' version of Villains update with buggy ghosts?
I know big part of comminity that like to play with funny bugs, like catsplosion. Why you don't release 'unstable' version of Villains update with buggy ghosts?Current version of the game has buggy ghosts. That's why he couldn't make the intelligent undead versions. As fun as it all is, no-one makes bugs on purpose.
Regarding the myth/magic content, will the AI respond preemptively to foreknown world events? For instance, if a given region is going to shift to become a demonic hellscape when the planets align, and the date (and implications) of this alignment are common knowledge in that world, one would expect nearby civilizations to evacuate the area as the date approaches; if an immortal being's lover is cursed to sleep for 700 years, then as the curse nears its end that being might choose to return to the tomb where their lover sleeps in order to meet them when they awaken; and so on for a variety of other prophecies, curses and such where important magical events or changes in the world are knowable in advance. Is this sort of preemptive action on the part of ingame beings or civilizations planned for the myth/magic content, or even feasible to implement?
Regarding the myth/magic content, will the AI respond preemptively to foreknown world events? For instance, if a given region is going to shift to become a demonic hellscape when the planets align, and the date (and implications) of this alignment are common knowledge in that world, one would expect nearby civilizations to evacuate the area as the date approaches; if an immortal being's lover is cursed to sleep for 700 years, then as the curse nears its end that being might choose to return to the tomb where their lover sleeps in order to meet them when they awaken; and so on for a variety of other prophecies, curses and such where important magical events or changes in the world are knowable in advance. Is this sort of preemptive action on the part of ingame beings or civilizations planned for the myth/magic content, or even feasible to implement?
Regarding the myth/magic content, will the AI respond preemptively to foreknown world events? For instance, if a given region is going to shift to become a demonic hellscape when the planets align, and the date (and implications) of this alignment are common knowledge in that world, one would expect nearby civilizations to evacuate the area as the date approaches; if an immortal being's lover is cursed to sleep for 700 years, then as the curse nears its end that being might choose to return to the tomb where their lover sleeps in order to meet them when they awaken; and so on for a variety of other prophecies, curses and such where important magical events or changes in the world are knowable in advance. Is this sort of preemptive action on the part of ingame beings or civilizations planned for the myth/magic content, or even feasible to implement?
On that topic, how much does the AI currently care about future events? I know we have refugees, but those evacuate after the site is attacked, afaik.
The new (villainous) agents make up plans and conspiracies of their own, but how appropriately do they react to other actor’s plans if they know about them, especially ones they cannot stop? Like if a quester leaked their plan to steal an artifact from a dragon, could rival questers/quest-givers cancel their plans to do the same, instead opting for an ambush?
The current Linux/Mac versions are not sellable (this is my fault, not the porting volunteers, obviously, since in the one case I never made a proper Mac bundle, and in the other, I never figured out how to do libraries/symlinks/wtvr in a wholesome way, and both these things are well beyond me), so we need to work through that before we can release on those platforms - this seems more feasible in the near-term than the rest, but it is not done yet. That'll likely be a whole discussion with Kitfox, whether it works in the existing partially-open-source framework or something new.
I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?
1. Apart from using magic, are their other ways that civilizations or other factions could treat magic. Like instead of accepting it and actively using it, could they be more bent on something like eradicating it?
* Removing or reawakening magic in the world
I’ve heard that the next version is going to remove the 31x31 limit on stockpile sizes.
Is there any possibility that the limit on zone sizes might also be lifted?
I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?
1. You mentioned in the previous reply that some long-standing bugs are planned to be fixed for the Premium update. Do you have some vague idea what bugs can be addressed here in time? Bins, military finickiness, civil wars?
2. I haven't heard much about planned changes to the legends mode interface yet. Any concrete plans here? Better navigation, search, maybe event filtering?
3. Related, but probably more of a long-term thing: Would it be possible to make legends mode accessible from other game modes? Because I feel like that's where most of the game's true depth is, but that depth isn't really visible when playing adventure or fortress mode. Alternatively, have you thought about using the UI revamp to expose more legends info where that would make sense, for instance on artefacts' or visitors' history?
In the Steam version, to what extent will we be able to implement our own graphics not only for the 'in-game' tiles but also for the new UI menus and other elements? Basically, I'd like to be able to play with ASCII tileset/graphics and my own custom UI elements to match the ASCII look and feel. Can this be a thing?
1:With the siege rework, will necromancers (and similar night creatures) be affected, as far as tactics go?
2:Will the personality and/or emotional state, in addition of a commanding officer affect tactics (or even lead to mistakes on the sieging armies part)?
3:Will army morale or, possibly general army mood (eg: the general mood of the sieging army is vengeful, after you assassinated their commanding officer with a balista) be a thing? (Or if it is, will it be a more significant factor?
3b:If morale/mood is a thing, how deep would it go (whole army, squads, all of a certain race or religion in an army, etc)
4:Are/Will actual officers which can lead an army/part of an army be a thing?
5:Will importance be given to certain groups an an army, with certain groups being treated as expendable (eg: mindless undead, trolls, less skilled squads), with others being granted specialized tasks, like flanking while some of the expendable keeps the fort busy, or going in to take prisoners and loot (and then maybe running off) (Perhaps the officers backstory (race, personality, current civ, previous civs, religious affiliation, orders, likes/dislikes, current mood) might effect it
6:Will enemies attempt to take and hold (and maybe even fortify) sections of fort, if they feel that going further in (without time to dig) means death (eg: you have a trap hall between your forges and farms, and they only have the forges), perhaps using/looting the sections they took, only destroying it (after taking all the valuables they can steal) if they are about to be driven out.
7:I saw something about conquerors adding new (and possibly humiliating) things to the forts they take. What other things besides that would they add? What does it entail?
8: Will (especially if you abandon the fort during a siege) any prisoners/ slaves be taken from your populations.
9:Will there be any direct/special behaviors for certain armies eg: elves/goblins eating corpses, or necromancers taking time to raise the dead between attack waves, or humans making actual camps which they rest in between waves (like, actual constructions, as opposed to them sitting in a corner or something) or dwarves digging down and releasing the hfs?(joke, don’t make dwarves so that please)
10:Will invading enemies have new goals besides conquering the fortress (or, maybe having secondary goals to fall back on if they fail to conquer the fort)
Feel free to ignore the examples here, these would probably do better in suggestions.
Some examples would be stealing/recovering(if the fort stole it) an artifact, freeing prisoners (cage traps), secretly subverting defenses (secret tunnels), acting as a vanguard for a larger force (Lay enough infrastructure down and soften the fort enough do that the incoming force can crush it),Doing a certain amount of damage/killings/kidnappings (either as retribution, a culling, a demand for tribute, or, if used alternately, a draft/tithe), killing/kidnapping a king/militia captain/ other position holder, killing/kidnapping a non-position holder, a cleansing (killing vampires, werecreatures, and necromancers specifically), ethnic cleansing (kill elves only (like those tavern dancers)), looting as much as possible, taking slaves/prisoners, or a scouting mission (probe defenses).
10a:If you would add extra goals, would some of them be tied to the villain system (assuming you add the left out features at some point), eg: a spy telling the anti necromancer alliance that you specifically harbor necromancers(which might be false), causing for them to send a force to slay the existential threat, or a spy making a secret tunnel for the goblins, or a villain dwarf becoming king by convincing the goblin spy to send information such that the next siege is out to specifically kidnap/kill the king.
I wanted to bring up (lack of) shadows of the mountains.
Slopes have their individual shadows - on the last email update images the "sun" seems to be in the "north". If there is a shadow at all - it's not midday, hence it would naturally follow that a mountain of z levels above would have a multiplying, overlapping shadow that extends on the grass that's below it on the screen.
Seeing that change over time would also be insanely beneficial for immersion.
Regarding Steam: Given DF's extreme long-term development roadmap, are you planning to release the game labeled as Early Access? Also, will Steam have its' own bug reporting, or will you redirect Steam players to Mantis?
How much of done graphic work could be represented in adventure mode in this moment? How differents are both modes respect to tiles or interfaces implementation? Could it mean double task?
1. Have you considered opening an official DF swag shop? It would surely put a few coins in the piggybank...
2. Since the beta is not in the cards, could we get the next best thing - more screenshots of your test runs? I'm waiting Thursdays like a madman only to have few tiny cropped images to look at.
2. M >= (aSY/wSY + (A+1)*aSF/wSF) * (10 + 2*a_quality) / (Sha * w_quality)
Where does this equation come from? I went on a wild goose choose through the Internet to try and figure this one out, but to no avail. On the plus side, I learned a lot about fracture mechanics.
Here is the link to my original question, also: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8192435#msg8192435
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR!Why RAISED_GHOST interactions are currently removed from the game?Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR!I know big part of comminity that like to play with funny bugs, like catsplosion. Why you don't release 'unstable' version of Villains update with buggy ghosts?
Will there be a fix of famously useless professions / workshop entries before Steam release? As far as I am aware it's only a matter of adding some entries in raw files so it should be really easy compared to all the bug-fixing.
-
Basically I meant extending extracts made in various workshops - https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Extracts is very empty.
On a similar note, making cooked foods cost less and paper industry products cost more would also be a simple fix, but one that prevents severe imbalance that leads to either ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard gameplay experience without any reason whatsoever.
regarding your latest blog post - will the "v-q-t-k look-and-do-stuff command set" be unified into one keyboard command? it's always tripped me up that they all do slightly different subsets of what feels like should be the same thing.
also, don't take this as a complaint or anything, i'm just curious - how often do you update the development page?
Can we have a separate thread for Steam achievement ideas?
Just curious, is there an integration test suite or every release gets manually playtested for not introducing bugs?
What are the current plans for alchemy? Any chance for some of them to get implemented during the myths & magic arc?
Would you consider using professional impact analysis for different types of weapons to adjust the way armour and shield works in DF? A good example of a decent analysis of how shields work against arrows can be found here: https://youtu.be/y6IlEUm_Eo4 This channel has quite a lot of different tests, using different weapons and types of armour. I thought it might be useful.
Quote from: green_meklarRegarding the myth/magic content, will the AI respond preemptively to foreknown world events? For instance, if a given region is going to shift to become a demonic hellscape when the planets align, and the date (and implications) of this alignment are common knowledge in that world, one would expect nearby civilizations to evacuate the area as the date approaches; if an immortal being's lover is cursed to sleep for 700 years, then as the curse nears its end that being might choose to return to the tomb where their lover sleeps in order to meet them when they awaken; and so on for a variety of other prophecies, curses and such where important magical events or changes in the world are knowable in advance. Is this sort of preemptive action on the part of ingame beings or civilizations planned for the myth/magic content, or even feasible to implement?Quote from: voliolOn that topic, how much does the AI currently care about future events? I know we have refugees, but those evacuate after the site is attacked, afaik.
The new (villainous) agents make up plans and conspiracies of their own, but how appropriately do they react to other actor’s plans if they know about them, especially ones they cannot stop? Like if a quester leaked their plan to steal an artifact from a dragon, could rival questers/quest-givers cancel their plans to do the same, instead opting for an ambush?
I'm sure this has been asked already, but is there going to be a linux version of the Steam release available?
Will you add tobacco into next Villains updates? This shall be great!
What do you think about adding discrimination between species? I don't mean within species as that might hit a bit close to home, so to speak... but certain races (species) just not trusting members of each other due to past events is common in fantasy works and the game would feel a bit incomplete without that.
1. Apart from using magic, are their other ways that civilizations or other factions could treat magic. Like instead of accepting it and actively using it, could they be more bent on something like eradicating it?
2. With all of the changes you have mentioned are planned for the Myth & Magic update, it seems to me that the current age system in world gen will be rather outdated. How will it change as you start to add myth features to the game? Will there be more set ages the world can pass through or are you planning on adding a way to randomly generate new ages?
3. Lastly, the game has the capability to theoretically generate thousand year histories or even longer. However, it usually takes an extremely long time to generate them; even on the best computers out there. Do you see any way of speeding up the process of creating large histories and if so, it is in the cards?
I remember you said animal people may not gain the same sprite treatment as other races, does this mean if we play animal person adventurers our equipment will not be visible on their sprites?
How exactly does (L)ooking for vermin work in adventure mode? Does it draw from creature populations from that area? What kind of vermin can one find using it? Is it even possible to get a (wild) pet fairy by looking?
I’ve heard that the next version is going to remove the 31x31 limit on stockpile sizes.
Is there any possibility that the limit on zone sizes might also be lifted?
1. Any chance we get a GOG release?
1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?We have already seen footages of guts so yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaVZn2QKuA&list=PLcOt9GXNrkgiejOzLVHGU8ra8VwAv0Knw&index=3&ab_channel=Blind
1. I'd expect it to be the same as it is currently, i.e. Myth world creation plays out, then year 1 happens and history starts. However, the myth stuff doesn't end, as whatever it created still exists and can influence the world. A hypothetical example would be a prophecy generated during myth gen that then gets fulfilled during history, and another might be that a godlike myth generated entity severs connections to a magic realm or opens a connection to another.
1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
In fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.The currently chosen path is to have the civ define its members, which is why "goblin" invasions can consist of mostly non goblins, and visiting goblins don't generally have the "murder: private matter" ethics, because they tend to come from non goblin civs (the exception is the performance troupes, where its members [and not restricted to goblin ones] can be members of a goblin civ as well, and then act as spies).
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).
Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?Hopefully some interesting answers to come, but the main thing to remember is that it won't be the same every time. Mythgen cooks up procedurally generated connections and meaning for innate and learned magic powers with some pushes in certain directions for different races probably.
2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?
3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)
4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)
1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?
2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?
3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)
4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)
Hopefully some interesting answers to come, but the main thing to remember is that it won't be the same every time. Mythgen cooks up procedurally generated connections and meaning for innate and learned magic powers with some pushes in certain directions for different races probably.
So in one world, Dwarves have the innate ability to lob magma balls. How fun. And in another dwarves have the arcane knowledge of how to change a bucket of water into a bucket of booze by gathering runes from the four corners of the earth (at the cost of only half of their blood). Great...
Rainseeker: Right. So, theoretically, you could have a magic system where it's completely overpowered and you could cause flowers to sprout from everyone's eyeballs and then win.Courtesy to JCsuper for the transcription, you can read it here: https://pastebin.com/knW3gzmw
Toady One: Yeah, well, there's no winning because the other people that can do that can do that too, right? I think the idea about balance, in this case, we have to be careful with, because a fantasy universe is inherently unbalanced by its fantasy elements. And that's the whole point, right?[...]
I think that, since there are a lot of mythical concepts of afterlife out there, afterlife is gonna work differently in different worlds. Maybe we will be able to choose the general concepts like reincarnation, going to either heaven and hell, etc in the world settings[color=lime_green]1. I'd expect it to be the same as it is currently, i.e. Myth world creation plays out, then year 1 happens and history starts. However, the myth stuff doesn't end, as whatever it created still exists and can influence the world. A hypothetical example would be a prophecy generated during myth gen that then gets fulfilled during history, and another might be that a godlike myth generated entity severs connections to a magic realm or opens a connection to another.
1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
[/color]
2/3. It most likely won't be any implementation in the first Myth & Magic release (and possibly not in the first arc either). When implemented, its effects would depend on what the afterlife is like. If your soul gets sent to heaven/hell I can imagine a (late) implementation of continued play in those places, while reincarnation might offer you the option to be reincarnated upon death, starting as a new character but with more or less knowledge intact. It all depends on what those afterlives look like. In a fully mundane world the afterlife is just a myth, so death is the end of it.
If there is play in the afterlife, it's not unreasonable to allow an adventurer to try to claw himself back to the world of the living, either in the afterlife form or somehow regaining the previous form or a similar one (i.e. become e.g. a dwarf again). It wouldn't be unreasonable to allow for an Orpheus trip to the afterlife either.
Based on necro tower spoils, necros seem to spend a lot of time writing books. Many, but certainly not all, on the secret of life and death.
What do the evil villains do in their off-time?
Probably been asked before but will magic be able to use components? so the 50 barrels of dragonfly blood that the traders keep trying to pawn off on me will have some real (non Armok-related, of course) use?Yes. Not sure which materials/items will be up for picks though. I think all the materials in the mythgen demos we’ve seen were procedurally generated, but those demos are far from representative of the final product.
how much are we, as players, going to be able to influence myth gen? will it have its own section in advanced world generation to determine things? E.g if i really want a world which is bound to fall during an apocalypse, is that something i will be able to generate on purpose?The prototype Toady demonstrated was all controllable by text raws so seems like it's to be developed that way, yes. Plus a fixed world editor is to be part of one of the releases in the arc, so you'll have full control over what Mythgen pulls up (amongst other things). Of course, issues might crop up, changing any of this once the work begins in a couple of years.
I buy my games preferably on GOG because I like em DRM free. There is no guarantee what happends to my library if steam goes bankrupt or will be bought by somebody else. Unlikely but possible.1. Any chance we get a GOG release?
This has been addressed elsewhere by Kitfox Games, who have been engaged to handle these sorts of details.
They said basically that they weren't opposed to the idea, but already had extensive connections with itch.io and Steam, but none with GOG.
I like GOG myself, as I'm a fan of retro games they often sell for cheap, but I don't really care where I buy DF. Is there any particular reason you have for wanting to buy it from GOG that I could pass on to Kitfox?
2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?We have already seen footages of guts so yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaVZn2QKuA&list=PLcOt9GXNrkgiejOzLVHGU8ra8VwAv0Knw&index=3&ab_channel=Blind
Game will still be free at Bay12Games when that happens.I buy my games preferably on GOG because I like em DRM free. There is no guarantee what happends to my library if steam goes bankrupt or will be bought by somebody else. Unlikely but possible.1. Any chance we get a GOG release?
This has been addressed elsewhere by Kitfox Games, who have been engaged to handle these sorts of details.
They said basically that they weren't opposed to the idea, but already had extensive connections with itch.io and Steam, but none with GOG.
I like GOG myself, as I'm a fan of retro games they often sell for cheap, but I don't really care where I buy DF. Is there any particular reason you have for wanting to buy it from GOG that I could pass on to Kitfox?2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?We have already seen footages of guts so yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaVZn2QKuA&list=PLcOt9GXNrkgiejOzLVHGU8ra8VwAv0Knw&index=3&ab_channel=Blind
Thank you!
I buy my games preferably on GOG because I like em DRM free. There is no guarantee what happends to my library if steam goes bankrupt or will be bought by somebody else. Unlikely but possible.
No.Game will still be free at Bay12Games when that happens.I buy my games preferably on GOG because I like em DRM free. There is no guarantee what happends to my library if steam goes bankrupt or will be bought by somebody else. Unlikely but possible.1. Any chance we get a GOG release?
This has been addressed elsewhere by Kitfox Games, who have been engaged to handle these sorts of details.
They said basically that they weren't opposed to the idea, but already had extensive connections with itch.io and Steam, but none with GOG.
I like GOG myself, as I'm a fan of retro games they often sell for cheap, but I don't really care where I buy DF. Is there any particular reason you have for wanting to buy it from GOG that I could pass on to Kitfox?2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?We have already seen footages of guts so yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LaVZn2QKuA&list=PLcOt9GXNrkgiejOzLVHGU8ra8VwAv0Knw&index=3&ab_channel=Blind
Thank you!
And likely approaching 70% complete by then. :)
Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Or just read any real world creation myth (like the one about Adam's second wife Eve)...Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Besides, it's a fantasy game myth generator. Dwarves created from clay, elves created when the clay mates with the moledog of Elestior, etc. Read some fantasy to see how "logical" it tends to be.
Well anyway it would be good to do something with people being born before year 0. Right now there is just no real explaination.Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Besides, it's a fantasy game myth generator. Dwarves created from clay, elves created when the clay mates with the moledog of Elestior, etc. Read some fantasy to see how "logical" it tends to be.
Lots of people were born before year 0 in the real world, regardless of which of the historically used year counting systems you look at. You really have three phases in the DF chronology:Well anyway it would be good to do something with people being born before year 0. Right now there is just no real explaination.Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Besides, it's a fantasy game myth generator. Dwarves created from clay, elves created when the clay mates with the moledog of Elestior, etc. Read some fantasy to see how "logical" it tends to be.
Lots of people were born before year 0 in the real world, regardless of which of the historically used year counting systems you look at.Well anyway it would be good to do something with people being born before year 0. Right now there is just no real explaination.Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Besides, it's a fantasy game myth generator. Dwarves created from clay, elves created when the clay mates with the moledog of Elestior, etc. Read some fantasy to see how "logical" it tends to be.
I buy my games preferably on GOG because I like em DRM free. There is no guarantee what happends to my library if steam goes bankrupt or will be bought by somebody else. Unlikely but possible.
Buy from Itch then. They're DRM free, same as GOG.
No. It isn't. When do you think all that erosion is taking place during map generation? Hence people being born in the year -80.Lots of people were born before year 0 in the real world, regardless of which of the historically used year counting systems you look at.Well anyway it would be good to do something with people being born before year 0. Right now there is just no real explaination.Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in currentWritten history begins in year 0. Why is it strange that people exist before written history begins?
version
Besides, it's a fantasy game myth generator. Dwarves created from clay, elves created when the clay mates with the moledog of Elestior, etc. Read some fantasy to see how "logical" it tends to be.
In the real world year 0 is not the beginning of the Universe. In current version of DF it is.
This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?Welcome to the forum, VineFynn! In this thread we use lime green text when asking questions to Toady, as it's easier for him to filter them out that way.
[color=limegreen]whatever text[/color]
and it'll turn out like whatever text.This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?I imagine it's not too much to add for regular development. New stuff that needs to be visualised doesn't get added very often. Mythgen will produce some new critters and scenery maybe, but what's an extra 3 months on top of a multi-year Big Wait. Besides Toady doesn't make the graphics himself so possibly no extra time needed at all.
This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?As Shonai_Dweller said, the overhead will most likely be limited. Integral support for tile sets means that whatever has to be done to support that will have to be done for new tiles (and there will probably be a fair number of new tiles resulting from Myth & Magic given that there will be new terrain as well as effects, but "a fair number" will most likely be something in the 1-10% range of the current number of tiles). In addition to the code support, there will have to be coordination with the artists, so an official tile set will have some additional overhead above the effort of just supporting tile sets (but I hope reviewing tiles and discussing them with the artists is at least somewhat enjoyable to Toady, rather than just a necessary evil chore).
This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?Welcome to the forum, VineFynn! In this thread we use lime green text when asking questions to Toady, as it's easier for him to filter them out that way.
I've already marked yours, for convenience' sake, but you can also do it yourself by usingCode: [Select][color=limegreen]whatever text[/color]
and it'll turn out like whatever text.
More color codes here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164890.0
And here's a welcome thread for the whole forum, if you wish to stay: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177499.0
This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?As Shonai_Dweller said, the overhead will most likely be limited. Integral support for tile sets means that whatever has to be done to support that will have to be done for new tiles (and there will probably be a fair number of new tiles resulting from Myth & Magic given that there will be new terrain as well as effects, but "a fair number" will most likely be something in the 1-10% range of the current number of tiles). In addition to the code support, there will have to be coordination with the artists, so an official tile set will have some additional overhead above the effort of just supporting tile sets (but I hope reviewing tiles and discussing them with the artists is at least somewhat enjoyable to Toady, rather than just a necessary evil chore).
I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out that Steam would be a larger burden over time than tile set support, though (Steam Workshop, achievements, changes to the requirements over time).
It can also be mentioned that as DF grows the effort of integrating new elements into a growing and increasingly complex framework will continue to increase. In that perspective, a better tile set support is just another element in the growth process.
Makes sense. Thanks both.This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?I imagine it's not too much to add for regular development. New stuff that needs to be visualised doesn't get added very often. Mythgen will produce some new critters and scenery maybe, but what's an extra 3 months on top of a multi-year Big Wait. Besides Toady doesn't make the graphics himself so possibly no extra time needed at all.
After all, he'll be developing new stuff with the understanding that official graphics are going to be made for it, rather than trying to retrofit and add catch-up code like he is now.
No way this hasn't come up some time before given the abundance of other formulas, but what exactly determines a successful dodge/block/parry? Is it skill vs skill alongside whatever debuffs a creature might have plus their attributes, and then that's it? Does size play a factor?Lime green for questions to Toady (assuming no-one else answers in the next few weeks).
I have a billion questions (A whole google doc of them) but I don't wanna overwhelm Toady so I'll trickle my questions out. (Also I'm not sure if you're allowed more than one question per post)Feel free to post as many questions as you like. People post huge lists sometimes. Although try to stay clear of "suggestions", keep them in the suggestions forum (not a rule for rules sake, if your suggestion is good it may well be taken up, but it won't be remembered here. Suggestions forum is proactively checked by Toady/Threetoe).
Will there be a slider for us to determine if magic items exist or not and if so can we determine how powerful they are and how common they are?
For example can I make the following scenario happen?:
Urist Weavercave is weaver and a former wizard. He keeps an enchanted ring on him that he found in a random stockpile. Many rings with the same spell litter the fortress as it is a cheap (Only costs a little bit of stamina on the caster's part), but still price-raising enchantment. Goes out into the caves to collect webs. Runs into a giant cave spider, he snaps his fingers and knocks the thing back. The giant cave spider smacks a wall and Urist goes about the rest of his day.
Generally I'm wondering if it's possible to build a fortress economy based off of selling magic items if the created magic system allows it? I like the idea of running a magic fortress and creating the most obnoxiously powerful magic items I can create for fun
(And, Shonai_Dweller, I think some word incorrection SW has attacked your "Threetoe").Fatal combination of autocorrect, typing on a phone and deteriorating eyesight...
This question isn't as consequential, but can you eat vermin if your adventurer is hungry enough?
Any "vermin related" bugs could be swept away with a couple of RAW changes, and perhaps purring maggot herding will become commonplace throughout the depths!.
I remember you saying that adding the ability to give custom names to Adventurer Camps was doable, so could this also apply to entire regions as well?This is presently possible through DFHack or save-editing; regions use the same naming system as just about everything else. A name in DF is either indexical, such that it uses words defined in the raws, or a normal string, such that it can be anything. By default, regions' names are indexical, but the game supports them being strings.
1. After the steam release, what if anything is left before the big wait for the myth and magic update?
2. Will procedurally generated humanoids like escaped necromancer experiments have their equipment show up on their sprites?
3. Will there be any attempt made before the big wait to make necromancers less world ending? Maybe either less powerful or friendly enough to have joinable civs of experiments.
4. In the myth and magic update will generated experiments such as what the necromancers currently do be playable in game as a magic user adventerer, to clarify will we be able to experiment on people?
5. Also in the myth and magic update will it be possible for our adventurers to be captured and experimented on potentially changing their race?
In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:Towers are indicated on the embark map. No need to change anything there. Embark with undead risk, embark without undead risk.
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Necromancer#Fortress_mode) get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:Towers are indicated on the embark map. No need to change anything there. Embark with undead risk, embark without undead risk.
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Necromancer#Fortress_mode) get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
I'm not talking about advanced worldgen. I'm talking about the opening screen. The one which every single player is presented with where they choose where to embark. You choose an evil region for evil things, you choose goblins for sieges. Make this screen better for new people, yes. More obvious what the info means, yes, give an explanation yes. Add a tutorial yes. But this is not a hidden feature. It's right there in front of you. Do you want undead sieges yes/no?In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:Towers are indicated on the embark map. No need to change anything there. Embark with undead risk, embark without undead risk.
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Necromancer#Fortress_mode) get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
Yes, and sophisticated players could turn off werebeast curses in advanced worldgen for years before the recent changes.
Likewise, you can certainly go through and comment "You're doing it wrong!" on all of negative reviews from people who will inevitably embark their first time between 4 towers, or Tarn could rationalize it a little bit as was done with werebeasts.
It seems likely to me that the latter option would be more effective.
In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:Towers are indicated on the embark map. No need to change anything there. Embark with undead risk, embark without undead risk.
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Necromancer#Fortress_mode) get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
Yes, and sophisticated players could turn off werebeast curses in advanced worldgen for years before the recent changes.
Likewise, you can certainly go through and comment "You're doing it wrong!" on all of negative reviews from people who will inevitably embark their first time between 4 towers, or Tarn could rationalize it a little bit as was done with werebeasts.
It seems likely to me that the latter option would be more effective.
To what extent are powers going to get used in world gen after the magic update?I don't understand exactly what you mean by "powers", so you may want to clarify that if you can before Toady has recovered from the yearly lutefisk overdose and is ready to answer this FotF...
In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:Towers are indicated on the embark map. No need to change anything there. Embark with undead risk, embark without undead risk.
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Necromancer#Fortress_mode) get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
Do they still come only from towers? Necromancers conquer other sites now.
1. Any chance we get a GOG release?
2. Will it be visually perceptible if a creature is hurt or will it be shown what body parts are injured/missing?
1)What are the bounds between creation myth and actual world history? Will there be a strict bound where the world "has been created" and the year 1 begins? Will we be able to affect it for example by playing adventure mode while gods do their active job?
2)I've heard that creation myth will do explanations for the afterlife. How will afterlife be incorporated into the game? Is it gonna track what happens to historical figures in their afterlife? Maybe they even do some celestial carrier and then will be able to interact with gods? Or maybe going to hell and be able to become demons somehow?
3)If things from previous really happen in some form, how will it affect the adventure mode? Does this mean that death of your adventurer is no longer a gameover?
In fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).
Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
1: With the magic arc, how disgustingly powerful do you expect super soldier programs to get? Are there going to be any restrictions or drawbacks that prevent or dissuade players from giving their dwarves most/every power/curse that is generated in their world? If so, have you thought of any yet?
2:Secondarily, in the magic arc, how much could dead dwarves effect fort mode? Right now we have ghosts, but how much bigger is it going to get on that front?
3:Thirdly in them magic arc, (Someone's probably asked this, but I'll ask anyway): what level of magic would you be able to pull off in fort mode without "special preparation" (eg: use of dump piles or pitting or something, as opposed to just setting a dwarf to a task)
4:I know that we'll probably eventually be able to play as other races, once you flesh them out enough, so, once you can, if you get conquered by an enemy force, would you have the option to play them controlling the fortress? (or alternatively, just as your conquered dwarves, but oppressed)
What do the evil villains do in their off-time?
Probably been asked before but will magic be able to use components? so the 50 barrels of dragonfly blood that the traders keep trying to pawn off on me will have some real (non Armok-related, of course) use?
how much are we, as players, going to be able to influence myth gen? will it have its own section in advanced world generation to determine things? E.g if i really want a world which is bound to fall during an apocalypse, is that something i will be able to generate on purpose?
Will myth generator make "Adam and Eve" for each civ (or maybe even each species)? That would be very logical. It's strange to see some historical figures born on like year -80 in current version
This has probably been asked before, but will the existence of the Steam build and the accompanying graphics indefinitely add overhead to development, since it needs to be updated?
No way this hasn't come up some time before given the abundance of other formulas, but what exactly determines a successful dodge/block/parry? Is it skill vs skill alongside whatever debuffs a creature might have plus their attributes, and then that's it? Does size play a factor?
Will there be a slider for us to determine if magic items exist or not and if so can we determine how powerful they are and how common they are?
For example can I make the following scenario happen?:
Urist Weavercave is weaver and a former wizard. He keeps an enchanted ring on him that he found in a random stockpile. Many rings with the same spell litter the fortress as it is a cheap (Only costs a little bit of stamina on the caster's part), but still price-raising enchantment. Goes out into the caves to collect webs. Runs into a giant cave spider, he snaps his fingers and knocks the thing back. The giant cave spider smacks a wall and Urist goes about the rest of his day.
Generally I'm wondering if it's possible to build a fortress economy based off of selling magic items if the created magic system allows it? I like the idea of running a magic fortress and creating the most obnoxiously powerful magic items I can create for fun
I remember you saying that adding the ability to give custom names to Adventurer Camps was doable, so could this also apply to entire regions as well?
This question isn't as consequential, but can you eat vermin if your adventurer is hungry enough?
In the latest Kitfox video (made available to this forum thanks to clinodev), you said (and Fiona repeated in writing) that the interface was different compared to Classic. I hope you really meant different compared to the current version, rather than the Premium version of the Premium release would have a new UI logic while the Classic version of the Premium release would retain the current UI (not only would it be a pain to maintain two gradually diverging UIs, but it would also result in a disincentive to shift from the Premium release Classic version to the Premium release Premium version if it comes a the cost of learning a new UI [if anything, forcing the current Classic version users to relearn the UI would lower the threshold for also moving to the Premium version for current players]).
In the 21 December 2020 DevLog, you write in part: " Dwarven cheese/milk are properly available at embark (came up in art testing, as all of the cheeses have different pictures and dwarven cheese was being elusive.)"
Did you fix the various bugs with dwarven cheese/milk, or just force them on the embark list?
According to the wiki, purring maggots don't appear on cavern level one anymore (with multiple other bugs listed in the report), which is the basic reason caravans and the embark menu don't show dwarven cheese/milk since 40d. Additionally, "Tamed purring maggots can't be milked.", and "After being milked, purring maggots are left inside the workshop as an item."
Has your recent work on the Stockpile interface caused you examine the myriad bugs involving Bins? Can you say if it would be easier to effectively write a new Bin on top of existing code instead of trying to retro-fix the existing Bin?
I've heard you say in a couple interviews that the difference between a cow and an alligator in DF is pretty negligible. So I was wondering, in your opinion, what needs to be done to fix this? You are clearly thinking about it, so when do you think you'll make those changes?
1. After the steam release, what if anything is left before the big wait for the myth and magic update?
2. Will procedurally generated humanoids like escaped necromancer experiments have their equipment show up on their sprites?
3. Will there be any attempt made before the big wait to make necromancers less world ending? Maybe either less powerful or friendly enough to have joinable civs of experiments.
4. In the myth and magic update will generated experiments such as what the necromancers currently do be playable in game as a magic user adventerer, to clarify will we be able to experiment on people?
5. Also in the myth and magic update will it be possible for our adventurers to be captured and experimented on potentially changing their race?
In the spirit of early werebeast attacks being a surprise to the dev team after many years:
Will undead sieges, which can come even before the first migration wave, get user-definable triggers to avoid early attacks?
1.One of the pre myth and magic adventure mode candidates: gaining a civ level position through reputation or intrigue- is marked as partially done. Has it been added to the game to some extent? I know there is a bug/exploit to have rulers inexplicably give you their title if you hang on the make make demands menu.
2. Pre the the myth and magic update would holding this position actually do anything besides giving the player adventurer a prestigious title? Could they command the city's local soldiers or hold some other form of power?
3. How would the player adventurer go about go about acquiring this title through reputation? And like wise how could they go about acquiring it through intrigue?
To what extent are powers going to get used in world gen after the magic update?
I was searching over the raws when i made a abrupt realization that there's a elephant in the room, regarding that humans have [USE_NON_EXOTIC_PET_RACE] that freezes them out from using them. But appear in the steamrelease-teaser-screenshots gallery of a apparently natural human siege.
Is this a sneaky hint that elephants or humans will recieve a RAW change in the next version respective to each other, or is this a subtle bit of editing to appeal more interesting for the devlog?
I didn't change anything directly here, and I didn't edit anything for the dev log. When I was testing, I ran the attack code so I could get some humans, and there were elephants, which was a bonus since we wanted to show their tile at some point. Does PET or TRAINABLE put them in the regular non-exotic pool for 'monster' races? Elephants have MOUNT_EXOTIC, but these weren't mounted - they came in the troll way, a whole bunch of them. The lone elephant there was the result of a bug (making it the leader of the whole army), but it was followed by about 20 more that I figured were legitimate 'monster' units. Or could a general have tamed them in world gen? I'm not sure, ha ha.
I don't recall how eating works - my vague recollection is that the "no, that's disgusting"-type message is mostly removed as a barrier if you are a starving, but that might not be the case.Your recollection is correct. Of course, once you do eat the vermin, you'll no longer be starving. So it's not like you can fill up on them.
Yeah I think intrinsic species traits would be sketchy, I don't see any reason why background alone wouldn't be enough (for one thing it gives us the chance to have our own Carrot Ironfoundersson types) and giving any group an "inherent nature" is a rather bioessentialist view.Quote from: FrankVillIn fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).
Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8219578#msg8219578
There are some biases in the raw files, and for the goblins, the lack of altruism I think does count as reasonably stark species difference, since they can't break 50%, though for two individuals you couldn't pick the goblin out every time. For the elves, despite how it works now, we never really decided whether the cannibalism bit was entirely cultural. With dwarves though, we've intentionally made them a bit closer to humans than they might normally be on the theory that it helps story formation somewhat. I'm not sure if we'll ever change that part in the default setup, though the myth release is likely to make more variability possible or even commonplace.
There's some tension here, as I think came up in DND and various other places, involving racism and roleplaying and etc. It's safest to completely homogenize the minds, not to vary them at all in a way linked to creature type, but our current thinking is that we can allow some variability, including stuff that's more stark than what we're doing now.
It's just a normal fantasy thing in regards to innate traits, I don't see why it's "sketchy" or why it should be removed or changed. Even dwarves have a similar thing going on where they're more greedy on average and slightly less prone to stress, amongst other traits - I don't think anyone really sees that as an issue.Yeah I think intrinsic species traits would be sketchy, I don't see any reason why background alone wouldn't be enough (for one thing it gives us the chance to have our own Carrot Ironfoundersson types) and giving any group an "inherent nature" is a rather bioessentialist view.Quote from: FrankVillIn fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).
Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8219578#msg8219578
There are some biases in the raw files, and for the goblins, the lack of altruism I think does count as reasonably stark species difference, since they can't break 50%, though for two individuals you couldn't pick the goblin out every time. For the elves, despite how it works now, we never really decided whether the cannibalism bit was entirely cultural. With dwarves though, we've intentionally made them a bit closer to humans than they might normally be on the theory that it helps story formation somewhat. I'm not sure if we'll ever change that part in the default setup, though the myth release is likely to make more variability possible or even commonplace.
There's some tension here, as I think came up in DND and various other places, involving racism and roleplaying and etc. It's safest to completely homogenize the minds, not to vary them at all in a way linked to creature type, but our current thinking is that we can allow some variability, including stuff that's more stark than what we're doing now.
Thanks for the replies Toady, but id be sure to answer your question for a change based on what i know of the subject topic with this new info.Quote from: ToadyOneI didn't change anything directly here, and I didn't edit anything for the dev log. When I was testing, I ran the attack code so I could get some humans, and there were elephants, which was a bonus since we wanted to show their tile at some point. Does PET or TRAINABLE put them in the regular non-exotic pool for 'monster' races? Elephants have MOUNT_EXOTIC, but these weren't mounted - they came in the troll way, a whole bunch of them. The lone elephant there was the result of a bug (making it the leader of the whole army), but it was followed by about 20 more that I figured were legitimate 'monster' units. Or could a general have tamed them in world gen? I'm not sure, ha ha.
Filtering, the [POSITION:CAPTAIN] noble or overlapping any variable position of creatures outside the defined scope fixes this kind of thing, as that's mainly the w.g nonhistorical and no-equipment fodder the AI throws virtually unlimited amounts at you for. If it was a inaccessible class of creature and that the civ couldn't fufill to find that creature (sentient or otherwise) inside itself it'd omit them entirely and as i remember it working the once after i made a faulty RAW definition, sending out site militia's making historical site population trickle down after being unable to reach its reliable captains.
Example made for humans being similar to the dwarven template under the mountain civ, with the creature clause.Spoiler: "Captain code enclosed" (click to show/hide)
From what you say, that elephant is just controlling the smallest branch of the army onto your site technically underneath the lieutenant/general hierarchy, and animals have been noted, as per bug report ( #6708: Human civilization's soldier is an Alligator Recruit. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6708) ) as recruits themselves so maybe the elephant brought its own squad by chance?
A additional note, that creature-feature monster squads vanish from goblins (trolls in armor etc) if this is also filled out with trolls appearing in the correct capacity.
The elephants being tamed for their [MOUNT_EXOTIC] is quite likely the result of a general going out of their way to travel the wilds for animals now that i think about it since [USE_NON_EXOTIC_PET_RACE] and elephant [PET] is compatible on the surface while [MOUNT_EXOTIC] is not, i was just wondering if there was more to it personally but this is a satisfiable result.
this is terrifying, elephants having squads behind them, now imagine if that got scaled up to say, tamed roc's if monster units can suddenly be generated on the map
It's just a normal fantasy thing in regards to innate traits, I don't see why it's "sketchy" or why it should be removed or changed. Even dwarves have a similar thing going on where they're more greedy on average and slightly less prone to stress, amongst other traits - I don't think anyone really sees that as an issue.Yeah I think intrinsic species traits would be sketchy, I don't see any reason why background alone wouldn't be enough (for one thing it gives us the chance to have our own Carrot Ironfoundersson types) and giving any group an "inherent nature" is a rather bioessentialist view.Quote from: FrankVillIn fortress mode, I can see a meticulous and detailed description of the physical appearance and psychological state of each of my dwarves. They are all unique in terms of their way of being, preferences, memories, etc ... The same can also be observed in residents of different races, such as an elf who lives in my fortress.
At the level of physical appearance, dwarves and elves clearly differ from each other, but at a psychological level there are no elements that allow me to differentiate them (perhaps I have overlooked some detail that may currently be present).
Looking to the future:
- How do you consider differentiating the personalities between two or several races / species to the point that they may have some incompatibilities between them? For example, that a race thinks in a certain way due to its genetics.
- Or, on the contrary, do you think it is better to have a common psychological framework for each intelligent creature and let external elements (culture, religion, professions, civilizations...) shape and define the psychology of each one?
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8219578#msg8219578
There are some biases in the raw files, and for the goblins, the lack of altruism I think does count as reasonably stark species difference, since they can't break 50%, though for two individuals you couldn't pick the goblin out every time. For the elves, despite how it works now, we never really decided whether the cannibalism bit was entirely cultural. With dwarves though, we've intentionally made them a bit closer to humans than they might normally be on the theory that it helps story formation somewhat. I'm not sure if we'll ever change that part in the default setup, though the myth release is likely to make more variability possible or even commonplace.
There's some tension here, as I think came up in DND and various other places, involving racism and roleplaying and etc. It's safest to completely homogenize the minds, not to vary them at all in a way linked to creature type, but our current thinking is that we can allow some variability, including stuff that's more stark than what we're doing now.
I feel like it would be appropriate to give radically different personalities to creatures which clearly aren't just reskinned humans. Dwarves, elves, and goblins could plausibly be seen as being different races of human, or closely related species. But animal people or demons or whatever kind of generated sapient we wind up getting could think drastically differently from humans. IMO it would be a wasted opportunity if solitary carnivore cat people had exactly the same outlook as humans, and demons aren't really even animals, so it would be expected for them to have different priorities from anything living.But would a solitaire carnivore cat creature who was born and raised in a human town really have a completely different personality and outlook on life than the humans around him?
It does have to be approached mindfully, but "truly alien beings" are some of my favorite things in fiction.
If we kept things just because they were normal nothing would ever improve, a while ago there was actually a big discussion about the latest D&D edition where plenty of people saw the issue, because "this race has inherently bad traits" is a concept that's led to a lot of awful things in the world, is a kind of lazy way to develop personalities and is arbitrarily limiting.I think that the sort of person who looks at something like DF's goblins and analogizes them with a real ethnic group is probably quite prejudiced to begin with. Assuming that the existence of monstrous humanoids in a fantasy world is tantamount to racists caricaturing other people as monsters strikes me as ceding ground to bigots. Of course, optics are a legitimate concern, but I resent the notion that DF, as it exists, might be inculcating hatred in its players.
Even Tolkien regretted making orcs predisposed to evil in his later writings.Wasn't this because of the theological implications? An innately evil race would seem to lack the opportunity for salvation, for one. Dwarf Fortress, however, is not made with an eye towards conforming with Christian beliefs.
I would expect the human-raised cat-creature to be culturally human, but still to have feline inclinations, and vice-versa. This is consistent with how the game works at present, with civilization-raws defining cultural values and creature-raws defining personality parameters. Having a uniform felinid-personality would obviously be silly, but DF is at no risk of being that simplistic.I feel like it would be appropriate to give radically different personalities to creatures which clearly aren't just reskinned humans. Dwarves, elves, and goblins could plausibly be seen as being different races of human, or closely related species. But animal people or demons or whatever kind of generated sapient we wind up getting could think drastically differently from humans. IMO it would be a wasted opportunity if solitary carnivore cat people had exactly the same outlook as humans, and demons aren't really even animals, so it would be expected for them to have different priorities from anything living.But would a solitaire carnivore cat creature who was born and raised in a human town really have a completely different personality and outlook on life than the humans around him?
It does have to be approached mindfully, but "truly alien beings" are some of my favorite things in fiction.
And would a human raised by a (nearly) solitaire carnivore cat creature have the same personality as those in the town?
The system needs to be flexible enough to deal with those cases. Assigning a "cat creature" personality in a world as complex as a typical Dwarf Fortress world seems way too simple.
I feel like it would be appropriate to give radically different personalities to creatures which clearly aren't just reskinned humans. Dwarves, elves, and goblins could plausibly be seen as being different races of human, or closely related species.Right, and once interbreeding is introduced (as I believe is planned) they will be, in effect, members of the same species.
Ohh please... how anyone could see DF goblins and think that is a jab of any real life human ethnicity or group? Whoever does that must have a real problem. I would apreciate if you do not pollute this thread/forum/game with any of that crap.
Fantastic racism makes for some interesting plots and argumental lines. To draw paralels or connections to real life racism? No, please no. Racism in real life is stupid and one of the main reasons lots of people suffer.
I feel like it would be appropriate to give radically different personalities to creatures which clearly aren't just reskinned humans. Dwarves, elves, and goblins could plausibly be seen as being different races of human, or closely related species. But animal people or demons or whatever kind of generated sapient we wind up getting could think drastically differently from humans. IMO it would be a wasted opportunity if solitary carnivore cat people had exactly the same outlook as humans, and demons aren't really even animals, so it would be expected for them to have different priorities from anything living.
It does have to be approached mindfully, but "truly alien beings" are some of my favorite things in fiction.
Grants the user a week of good luck/bad luck (unknown effect, assumed to be similar-but-opposite to the mummy's curse, or temporary in the case of bad luck)".... Using the same dice under the same deity's blessing more than twice in an uncertain period of time, known to be between 24 hours - 1 week...
Editors for fixed worlds
You can make any race as evil, good natured or mixmatch of it. Whole races universally evil or otherwise. You can also have fantastic racism between them as plot devices like the dwarves and elves and so on as (sadly) a parallelism of real world. Specially when some, most of all of that racism is found out to be baseless as the plot advances in the case of books and such.
What should be avoided by anyone is seeing a fantasy race, specially a generic one like goblins and think/say/write: "It's offensive to X group of real life people", without any kind of support beyond their own predisposition and prejudgment.
Now, evil necromancers do are a jab at most politicians hehehehee
I think there just needs to be more ethics tags related to nationality and other social issues such as women's ability to participate in a civ for instance. I know there's a workaround for this in modding, but modders are lazy so having thoses types tags would help. It also add to simlution that's going on as well. More soical simultion is all ways welcome.
Edit: Nearly forgot. Is 'time before time' references in legends any sort of placeholder for mythgen connections coming in, or do my eyes deceive me?
I was wondering about dragon generation, would dragons be different world to world which I presume is the case, or would there be several dragon types like how there are cave dragons and regular dragons.fixed your colouring, lime green is pretty much necessary for questions to Toady - some sort of eyesight issue, IIRC, not exactly colour blindness so much as... it's uncertain quite what.
And what are going to happen to cave dragons?
The coloring is not an eye issue as such, but a practical one: coloring the questions allows Toady to quickly find them among the chaff of other posts (like this one). If you look at his answers, you find that he's got no problem reading and linking to those other posts when they contain relevant info.Also, the green, as opposed to lime green is really hard to read on some monitors, so lime green is preferred. That said, Toady's never complained about green posts and answers them whenever they crop up.
Thus, it's a way to speed up the monthly answering process (and the sooner that's taken care of, the more time he can spend on "real" DF work).
Edit: Nearly forgot. Is 'time before time' references in legends any sort of placeholder for mythgen connections coming in, or do my eyes deceive me?
Here in particular, I speak for those who are also drawing a blank on whatever a 'fixed world' might be, some kind of post-worldgen thing?Quote from: devlogEditors for fixed worlds
Has generative/adaptive music in DF been suggested before?
Have you changed the myth generator in any way from the moment you introduced it to GDC?Toady might well have tinkered with the prototype since the presentation, but bear in mind that he has not yet begun work on the Myth Arc, which is expected to last well over a year (easily over two, in my view). The final product will surely differ in various ways from what was shown at GDC, but I don't think you'll glean much of interest on the topic at present. Actually integrating it with the game is a bridge that Toady has yet to cross.
Has generative/adaptive music in DF been suggested before?
Yes. Here are just a couple that have procedural and music in the title.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159551.msg7102711#msg7102711
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149508.msg6111038#msg6111038
Although, I assume you mean "how hard do you think it would be to implement and if you do hypothetically intend to, what sort of priority is it compared to things already in the pipeline?" which you wont find an answer for in the suggestion threads.
Will we have a multicore version for the steam release?No, DF will not be multithreaded beyond the graphics using a separate thread. It has been discussed many times, and making DF multithreaded is an immense effort for relatively negligible benefits.
Will we have a multicore version for the steam release?Voliol's right, but even if DF were to go multicore, it wouldn't be Steam-exclusive. Toady has expressed a desire not to keep essential features out of the classic version.
Voliol's right, but even if DF were to go multicore, it wouldn't be Steam-exclusive. Toady has expressed a desire not to keep essential features out of the classic version.I think it's as much a desire to not have to maintain two code bases.
I think it's as much a desire to not have to maintain two code bases.Most certainly; that'd be a right pain. Regardless, I don't want anyone getting the impression that the Classic Edition is a less complete version of the game.
In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?Unless you can somehow squeeze it into "better military", the answer is most likely no, and I think the odds for getting that into military to any significant extent is quite limited (they might benefit from something general, but that's probably about it).
In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?
Goblins have snatchers. Kobolds have thieves.In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?
Huh?! Did the Goblins run out of dwarven, elven, and human children, so they’re snatching kobolds now?
1) What exactly does the [IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RESEARCH_POSSIBLE] interaction token do? The wiki simply states that "the secret can be researched by mundane means", which isn't particularly enlightening.I can't find any quotes at the moment, but my understanding is that the token doesn't actually do anything quite yet, perhaps luckily for the worlds that already have some necromancer problems. I recall it being called a "for the future" addition, essentially.
In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?
Don't they generate a "kobold has stolen some stuff" message when they reach the map edge?In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?
Well, yeah, if they were successful you didn't see them!
Will there be an updated look screen for when our adventurers look at a creature in the steam release similar to what was shown to be upcoming for fortress mode?
You misunderstood the question: Available in Adventure Mode as well as Fortress Mode in the Premium release.Will there be an updated look screen for when our adventurers look at a creature in the steam release similar to what was shown to be upcoming for fortress mode?
Huh? If your talking about the one in the update on the devlog, that’s for the Steam release.
You misunderstood the question: Available in Adventure Mode as well as Fortress Mode in the Premium release.Will there be an updated look screen for when our adventurers look at a creature in the steam release similar to what was shown to be upcoming for fortress mode?
Huh? If your talking about the one in the update on the devlog, that’s for the Steam release.
Will recipes be procedural generated to produce recognisable dishes with interesting ingrediences (outside "normal " dishes like "roasted xxx")?
Will unprepared food get bad after some time in stock?
There appear to be some issues with dice effects (and the bane for overuse) that I, at least, can't quite make out? Such as:QuoteGrants the user a week of good luck/bad luck (unknown effect, assumed to be similar-but-opposite to the mummy's curse, or temporary in the case of bad luck)".... Using the same dice under the same deity's blessing more than twice in an uncertain period of time, known to be between 24 hours - 1 week...
Edit: Nearly forgot. Is 'time before time' references in legends any sort of placeholder for mythgen connections coming in, or do my eyes deceive me?
Here in particular, I speak for those who are also drawing a blank on whatever a 'fixed world' might be, some kind of post-worldgen thing?Quote from: devlogEditors for fixed worlds
Does the "myth" part of the magic and myths update only include creation myths, or will there be other tales involving the gods as well in the initial worldgen process? Things like that one myth where Amaterasu hid a cave after Susanoo threw a flayed horse at her so the gods had to convene to try to get her out of the cave, for example.
also
Will there be a way to easily understand how a world's magic system works upon worldgen? Obviously there's room for discovery in gameplay, but it wouldn't hurt if there was at least a rough summary of how each world's magic system is set up on worldgen, unless the creation myth is supposed to explain the magic system as well.
I was wondering about dragon generation, would dragons be different world to world which I presume is the case, or would there be several dragon types like how there are cave dragons and regular dragons.
And what are going to happen to cave dragons?
Has generative/adaptive music in DF been suggested before?
Hello Tarn how are Zack and his health?Have you changed the myth generator in any way from the moment you introduced it to GDC?
Will we have a multicore version for the steam release?
In my years of playing the game I've never seen a successful kobold thief. Are there any plans to buff ambushers before the big wait?
1) What exactly does the [IS_SECRET:MUNDANE_RESEARCH_POSSIBLE] interaction token do? The wiki simply states that "the secret can be researched by mundane means", which isn't particularly enlightening.
2) What is the cut-off at which a gait is considered to be fast with regard to the [IE_HAVE_FAST_EFFORTLESS_GAIT_SPEED] and [IE_ALL_SLOW_EFFORTLESS_GAIT_SPEED] tokens?
Will there be an updated look screen for when our adventurers look at a creature in the steam release similar to what was shown to be upcoming for fortress mode?
- The release note said meal value affects meal satisfaction. Does meal quality factor in beyond its value enhancement factor?
- Does the new meal satisfaction logic affect meal selection so dorfs now first look for favored ingredients and then value, or does the previous logic remain, i.e. favored ingredients and then closest (with satisfaction due to value being down to luck/stockpile design)?
With the second pass of the villains update, will we see NPCs like bandit leaders or notable mercs/wanderers also utilize mounts and pets? It feels kinda strange that only the player really uses either in adventure mode right now.
Hello! I apologize in advance if I did not formulate my question well in English.Villains update (which is all of that) was paused before most of it was complete to work on Steam. Work resumes after Steam release is fairly stable.
Will the "police" system be reviewed?
The situation: the guard notices a thief who steals an artifact does not prevent the crime but runs past the criminal because he needs to first report this to the sheriff.
Will it be possible to add to the guards the ability to prevent a crime based on the situation, and then only report it to the sheriff?
Villains update (which is all of that) was paused before most of it was complete to work on Steam. Work resumes after Steam release is fairly stable.Got it, thanks for the answer.
With the UI updates, are there any plans to have skills consolidated eg metalsmith and metal crafter, fish cleaner/dissectorThese are really suggestions thinly disguised as questions.
Are there any plans for an in game glossary or recipe tree? Eg Iron is made of 3 different ores: hematite, lignite and magnetite. Combine with flux stone to make pig iron
Have any discussions been had about future Steam releases/add-ons/DLC? Things like new music or art packs. Presumably you wouldn’t want to lock any gameplay behind another paywall, but do you envision the $20 Steam version as being the only DF-thing someone would be able to buy?Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.
Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.
Now, if someone really clever came up with a program that would replicate the procedural music being played in the tavern in realtime I'd pay for that.
Probably more something Kitfox might consider investing in if DF turns out to be a good source of income for them.
Good question. Much as we all hate DLC, if the new music is popular, I could see official music packs being added. Someone's gotta pay the musicians presumably.
Now, if someone really clever came up with a program that would replicate the procedural music being played in the tavern in realtime I'd pay for that.
I saw that Tarn mentioned on Feb 01 that he can't justify the time it would take but surely after he makes his first $10 million he can pay someone else to take the time for him. :P
It would be rad (https://soundcloud.com/musicmastermsh/sets/songs-of-zavazsil)
Regarding the previously mentioned upcoming army update, will there be anything like joining another party rather than leading one yourself? It's a bit difficult to describe, but like, you could say enlist with an army for a time in adventure mode and your character will be dragged along the overlord in whatever direction the army goes, participating in battles and sieges and all that.Doesn't look like something that's in the scope of an army improvement push.
dirshouldectly
dirshouldectly
As a non-native speaker I really pondered about that for quite a time... :D
Recently, I was thinking about automation in Fortress mode.Don't forget that (no matter how much some people hate it because they're used to Dfhack versions) we have automation already:
Just looking at the workshops, there are three possible situations:
1- you have to choose a task in a workshop to build an object (a bed).
2 - you have to synchronize some workshops with different raw materials / tasks to get an object (soap)
3 - in Fishery it is not necessary to order any tasks, if there is a fish, the dwarf fisherman will do the task alone.
I understand that if everything were automated the Fortress mode could become contemplative and possibly boring, but if you have to be attentive to every step or detail the experience could become tedious and overwhelming. For that reason it is important to strike a balance and I suppose this question will often be a headache when designing DF.
My question is:
- Looking into the distant future, what role will task automation play or how far do you hope it can go?
- If the player does not have to worry about certain routine things, what do you hope he can get his attention to during the game?
Bit late to ask this but....The code isn't open, so no.
I'm wondering if there was ever a conceptual idea to establish some sort of volunteer based team whose aim was to track down and find solutions for the backlog of bugs that has built up over time. Now I realize that The Toady One doesn't necessarily need or want help, but I am seeing this from a less then direct angle. The plan would be for a group of volunteers who are familiar with at least parts of the game's code to try and pinpoint what is causing certain bugs, attempt to solve it, and then provide a report detailing what was changed and where in the code. Other volunteers, ideally the more experienced, would go over the report and try to determine if said solution is "safe" and would not cause errors elsewhere in the game, and should they feel confident in a solution they'd publish it. Toady himself could then choose whether or not to act on it, I definitely will not rule out cases where a found solution to a bug might cause problems in later versions and so may be found undesirable, but DF players would also have a choice to act on it.
Mind something like this could already exist in some form and I'm just not aware or failing to recognize them.
Inspired by Ariosto's question - has an idea of test suite been raised?Toady has debugging tools he's mentioned.
What I mean here is external piece of code that runs some scenarios and compares if their output is as expected.
That would eliminate the need to extensively play-test all new versions of the game to validate every single action.
The code isn't open, so no.
Bug tracker is run by volunteers, some of whom can hack their way in with Dfhack, etc to suggest solutions. But only Toady has the code.
Adding to Shonai_Dweller's response: While the source code isn't available, people investigating bugs can identify the cause with an impressive accuracy at times. The werecreature birth bug fixed in the latest release is an example of that. Finding the cause of a problem is often the most time consuming part of fixing bugs.I'm not surprised, even if I have to admit that I was thinking in terms of the game code available (i.e. the downloaded files) rather than the game code proper. I wasn't aware that the Bug Tracker was run by volunteers though, but I suppose I never gave it a hard glance in the past beyond seeing if certain bugs were logged or solved.
Toady has debugging tools he's mentioned.It would be dependent on the amount of time it would take to set up and whether it could be done in a manner that would satisfy Toady's privacy when it came to the DF code, but it would provide an extensive supply of manhours and computing power with which he could use to order tests. The caveat of course as you note is the amount of time it would take to set up the test suite, and honestly I'm not sure how long it would take; in the long-term it would always pay back, but the short-term cost I can't gauge.
Would spending the time to develop himself a test suite be of some benefit compared to the tests he already carries out?
Recently, I was thinking about automation in Fortress mode.Don't forget that (no matter how much some people hate it because they're used to Dfhack versions) we have automation already:
Just looking at the workshops, there are three possible situations:
1- you have to choose a task in a workshop to build an object (a bed).
2 - you have to synchronize some workshops with different raw materials / tasks to get an object (soap)
3 - in Fishery it is not necessary to order any tasks, if there is a fish, the dwarf fisherman will do the task alone.
I understand that if everything were automated the Fortress mode could become contemplative and possibly boring, but if you have to be attentive to every step or detail the experience could become tedious and overwhelming. For that reason it is important to strike a balance and I suppose this question will often be a headache when designing DF.
My question is:
- Looking into the distant future, what role will task automation play or how far do you hope it can go?
- If the player does not have to worry about certain routine things, what do you hope he can get his attention to during the game?
4. You use the manager to simply order tasks to be carried out when resources are available and let the dwarves worry about what workshop to use (with fine tuning in workshop Profiles).
Is "bogeymen" pronounced /bʊ.gi,mɛn/ or /bəu.gi.mɛn/?Boo pronunciation is spelt "Boogyman". So not that.
As if we spell things (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bogeyman) like they sound in this language or anything is ever that simple.Is "bogeymen" pronounced /bʊ.gi,mɛn/ or /bəu.gi.mɛn/?Boo pronunciation is spelt "Boogyman". So not that.
Really?As if we spell things (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bogeyman) like they sound in this language or anything is ever that simple.Is "bogeymen" pronounced /bʊ.gi,mɛn/ or /bəu.gi.mɛn/?Boo pronunciation is spelt "Boogyman". So not that.
Is "bogeymen" pronounced /bʊ.gi,mɛn/ or /bəu.gi.mɛn/?
The logic of English spelling: How do you pronounce "ghoti"?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's the word ghoti (made up word, but still a classic example) being pronounced in the same way as you would pronounce fish. No-one's spelling any existing words differently.The logic of English spelling: How do you pronounce "ghoti"?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No, you can't spell fish "ghoti" and have it be consistent with english spelling. However, you can spell it "pfysche", which is still pretty ridiculous.
It's the word ghoti (made up word, but still a classic example) being pronounced in the same way as you would pronounce fish. No-one's spelling any existing words differently.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti
Speaking of pronunciation:
Is there something like an official pronunciation guide for the languages in the game? I've always wondered how all those dwarven vowels are supposed to be pronounced.
My guess, from knowing the languages were thrown together relatively quickly as a placeholder for eventual procgen languages, is that the letters for each language were chosen on gut feeling, with the available codepage having lots of diacritics to spice up the orthography. It's only speculation though, Toady will have to (de)confirm it.
That said, you're not the first person to wonder about it, as some forumgoers went out of their way to codify the Dwarven language (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173289.0) a couple of years ago. Personally I favor Loam's comments (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173289.msg7941045#msg7941045) on phonology (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173289.msg7996111#msg7996111).
Why can't we make wooden training maces & warhammers?
With the map rewrite, coupled with the Myth & Magic release, will there be a possibility of solid clouds that we can walk around on- that will float over the scenery beneath?Kind of a suggestion.
Flying ("solid") clouds, islands, castles, cosmic shards (or something like that) should be enabled by the map rewrite. The time at which any of these will be introduced won't be known until it happens, though. However, placing it above another piece of terrain (as opposed to just have it as it's own kind of "island" from which you can fall to a certain death) probably requires more work than just "another dimension".With the map rewrite, coupled with the Myth & Magic release, will there be a possibility of solid clouds that we can walk around on- that will float over the scenery beneath?Kind of a suggestion.
Floating castles have been mentioned, so likely quite possible to do clouds.
Are there any plans to add off-site (wildlife) hunting missions?Nothing has been mentioned so it almost certainly shouldn't happen before Myth & Magic. I would assume that to be some generalization of the army logic, in which case it would fit in with things like geological surveys, natural resource inventory, magical effect loci localization, threat scout missions, etc. However, with the current abundance of food hunting expeditions would be somewhat pointless, so it probably wouldn't happen before a revamp of agriculture.
Any plans to allow the creation/filling of a wagon and sending it to trade off-site?A return of the economy and trade is in the future somewhere after Myth & Magic. It's not unreasonable that trade "armies" could be introduced after that. It's probably better to make this suggestion in the suggestion forum, though, as Toady won't look back to this thread at that time, but he does look at the suggestions.
Graphics: 1GB of VRAM: Intel HD 3000 GPU / AMD HD 5450 / Nvidia 9400 GT
The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?Generated playable races were demonstrated in the Mythgen prototype. Then it's just a matter of whether the Centaur Problem itself gets addressed with a nice generator at that time. Seems like it would be a lot of fun to have both generated from scratch races and "combined raws" races in our worlds.
The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?Unless Toady solves the Centaur Problem in a side project it's unlikely it would be tackled in the shock full context of the first Myth & Magic arc. It's not critical to either Myth or Magic, and probably not a core pillar for future functionality (like the map rewrite is).
You don't see the link between "generating new races" (Mythgen core feature) and "generating new races (from existing raws)" (Centaur Problem)? Seems a perfectly natural time to approach the problem. When else would you do it? Culture & Society rewrite? Boats?The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?Unless Toady solves the Centaur Problem in a side project it's unlikely it would be tackled in the shock full context of the first Myth & Magic arc. It's not critical to either Myth or Magic, and probably not a core pillar for future functionality (like the map rewrite is).
Myth & Magic will likely come as multiple (waves of) releases, PatrikLundell probably means it won't come in the first of those, the one which will partially be focused on the map rewrite. And features that fit well within an update thematically have been skipped/suspended before, such as tavern games and recipes for the tavern release. Another example are the various 0.47 night creatures that didn't make it in when vampires and werebeasts did, but were unexpectedly added through a tangent for the villains release.You don't see the link between "generating new races" (Mythgen core feature) and "generating new races (from existing raws)" (Centaur Problem)? Seems a perfectly natural time to approach the problem. When else would you do it? Culture & Society rewrite? Boats?The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?Unless Toady solves the Centaur Problem in a side project it's unlikely it would be tackled in the shock full context of the first Myth & Magic arc. It's not critical to either Myth or Magic, and probably not a core pillar for future functionality (like the map rewrite is).
He said "arc", but OK, maybe my mistake. We all know Mythgen is likely to be multiple releases. Mythgen without a Myth Generator and nothing but a map rewrite which doesn't do anything would seem like a bit of an anticlimax.Myth & Magic will likely come as multiple (waves of) releases, PatrikLundell probably means it won't come in the first of those, the one which will partially be focused on the map rewrite. And features that fit well within an update thematically have been skipped/suspended before, such as tavern games and recipes for the tavern release. Another example are the various 0.47 night creatures that didn't make it in when vampires and werebeasts did, but were unexpectedly added through a tangent for the villains release.You don't see the link between "generating new races" (Mythgen core feature) and "generating new races (from existing raws)" (Centaur Problem)? Seems a perfectly natural time to approach the problem. When else would you do it? Culture & Society rewrite? Boats?The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?Unless Toady solves the Centaur Problem in a side project it's unlikely it would be tackled in the shock full context of the first Myth & Magic arc. It's not critical to either Myth or Magic, and probably not a core pillar for future functionality (like the map rewrite is).
During the 'finish the villains release' period, will player fortresses be able to weave nefarious plots of their own? I guess raids sort of count but I was more thinking of assassinationsNot quite the same, but Player Adventurers will be able to be villains, with plots, networks, assassinations and so on, along with the current ability to build an underground hideout.
Is there a plan for the interface to provide some sort of farm management overview to see or control individual seed reserves and material flow into produce which does or does not drop seeds?
Will the "police" system be reviewed?
The situation: the guard notices a thief who steals an artifact does not prevent the crime but runs past the criminal because he needs to first report this to the sheriff.
Will it be possible to add to the guards the ability to prevent a crime based on the situation, and then only report it to the sheriff?
With the UI updates, are there any plans to have skills consolidated eg metalsmith and metal crafter, fish cleaner/dissector
Are there any plans for an in game glossary or recipe tree? Eg Iron is made of 3 different ores: hematite, lignite and magnetite. Combine with flux stone to make pig iron
Have any discussions been had about future Steam releases/add-ons/DLC? Things like new music or art packs. Presumably you wouldn’t want to lock any gameplay behind another paywall, but do you envision the $20 Steam version as being the only DF-thing someone would be able to buy?
1. Regarding the previously mentioned upcoming army update, will there be anything like joining another party rather than leading one yourself? It's a bit difficult to describe, but like, you could say enlist with an army for a time in adventure mode and your character will be dragged along the overlord in whatever direction the army goes, participating in battles and sieges and all that.
2. Also regarding the army update, will it be possible to see stuff like cities being overrun by soldier and stumbling into battles?
3. A lot of demon stuff seems to be tied to the existence of procedurally generated demons (ie custom demons won't spawn unless they're enabled etc). Are there any tags or adv worldgen edits I could make to negate this?
4. Will future releases let us create custom modded night creature experiments?
Will animals that die from old age ever be butcherable / if not, will an animal trainer be able to notify you when they are nearing their natural lifespan?
Will swords and weapons be able to be encrusted with gems?
And lastly,
Will there ever be an option to migrate a fortress? As in taking some of your current dwarves, supplies and animals and building some wagons and starting a new fortress, either abandoning or retiring the other one?
Recently, I was thinking about automation in Fortress mode.
Just looking at the workshops, there are three possible situations:
1- you have to choose a task in a workshop to build an object (a bed).
2 - you have to synchronize some workshops with different raw materials / tasks to get an object (soap)
3 - in Fishery it is not necessary to order any tasks, if there is a fish, the dwarf fisherman will do the task alone.
I understand that if everything were automated the Fortress mode could become contemplative and possibly boring, but if you have to be attentive to every step or detail the experience could become tedious and overwhelming. For that reason it is important to strike a balance and I suppose this question will often be a headache when designing DF.
My question is:
- Looking into the distant future, what role will task automation play or how far do you hope it can go?
- If the player does not have to worry about certain routine things, what do you hope he can get his attention to during the game?
Quote from: AriostoI'm wondering if there was ever a conceptual idea to establish some sort of volunteer based team whose aim was to track down and find solutions for the backlog of bugs that has built up over time. Now I realize that The Toady One doesn't necessarily need or want help, but I am seeing this from a less then direct angle. The plan would be for a group of volunteers who are familiar with at least parts of the game's code to try and pinpoint what is causing certain bugs, attempt to solve it, and then provide a report detailing what was changed and where in the code. Other volunteers, ideally the more experienced, would go over the report and try to determine if said solution is "safe" and would not cause errors elsewhere in the game, and should they feel confident in a solution they'd publish it. Toady himself could then choose whether or not to act on it, I definitely will not rule out cases where a found solution to a bug might cause problems in later versions and so may be found undesirable, but DF players would also have a choice to act on it.
Mind something like this could already exist in some form and I'm just not aware or failing to recognize them.Quote from: ror6axInspired by Ariosto's question - has an idea of test suite been raised?
What I mean here is external piece of code that runs some scenarios and compares if their output is as expected.
That would eliminate the need to extensively play-test all new versions of the game to validate every single action.
Is "bogeymen" pronounced /b?.gi,m?n/ or /b?u.gi.m?n/?
* In terms of baby mismanagement, would mothers in the military be programmed with better baby handling UI (putting them down for one), or are prospective parents (dads and mothers all) going to pick up any incidental babies on the battlefield and start using them as improv shields. (yeah that'll sort their stress-balance out all-right) like they roughhandle their own offspring.
* And how do you expect to handle some of the odder fringe cases of babies left behind from experiments or semi-intelligents (sieging and wild trolls comes to mind killed in the midst of combat) who don't really fit into the category of being socially presentable unless you have some weird hands-off goblin creche thing going on to encourage it.
Is there something like an official pronunciation guide for the languages in the game? I've always wondered how all those dwarven vowels are supposed to be pronounced.
Why can't we make wooden training maces & warhammers?
Does the new UI and/or tutorial promts for Premium DF imply there's going to be a makeover of some raw files, such as reaction raws? Or will the UI/tutorial simply interpret the old raws in a new way in that regard?
With the map rewrite, coupled with the Myth & Magic release, will there be a possibility of solid clouds that we can walk around on- that will float over the scenery beneath?
Quote from: HellrazorAre there any plans to add off-site (wildlife) hunting missions?Quote from: BromsAny plans to allow the creation/filling of a wagon and sending it to trade off-site?
Currently on the Steam store page, you have listed as a requirement:QuoteGraphics: 1GB of VRAM: Intel HD 3000 GPU / AMD HD 5450 / Nvidia 9400 GT
which I'll note are all 10-12 year old.
Now that you have a lot of work into the new graphics, and your multilevel view and so on, does that still seem like a reasonable requirement for Premium, or is it likely to be revised up?
I suspect it's probably not far off, but they're old enough graphics solutions that it might have been the default text filled in on the store form or something. :D
(I've been asked about this a few times recently, which I take as a compliment for you and the artists.)
Today some modern roguelikes are starting to simplify the user interface. For example, Caves of Qud uses the Space key to perform any action on an element that is close to you, Cataclysm DDA uses Enter to concentrate, classify and order all the actions that your character could do at a given moment (they are still not easy to play for those who are not experts in this genre, ha ha).
In order to make Adventure Mode a little more newbie friendly to the Premium version, what do you have in mind about the user interface?
The recent interviews have made me wonder: in the myth and magic update will possible generated playable races include hybrids similar to centaurs? For example a human upper half and a tiger lower half?
I remember there was Talk of the possibility of creating a new game mode, the so-called 'deity mode', fleshed out from debugging tools. If I remember correctly the limiting factor was the fact that all a player-deity could do is curse random people and affect some rolls or something. Are you still optimistic on that front? Assuming divine overreach gets a revamping e.g. during the myth release, could deity mode be a possible byproduct, however rudimentary?
Right now when I want to search something and I make a typo or something and search something again, the forum tells me to wait 5 seconds, except I often estimate badly and wait for only 3 seconds or something, so I get the error message and have to wait 5 more seconds, and so on. Also, the 'display more relevant results' option is useless and should not be the default (it should be 'most recent results' instead). Could you please fix it?
During the 'finish the villains release' period, will player fortresses be able to weave nefarious plots of their own? I guess raids sort of count but I was more thinking of assassinations, hostage taking, and generally more complex endeavors involving handlers and sleepers on foreign sites, just like foreign entities do with your fortress.
Now that literally every single character in the world can mount stuff except for citizens in fortress mode, what are the remaining technical hurdles?
Could you explain the detailed mechanics of how insurrections and claims work? The wiki is really lacking.
Quote from: Buttery_MessWith the map rewrite, coupled with the Myth & Magic release, will there be a possibility of solid clouds that we can walk around on- that will float over the scenery beneath?
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8249281#msg8249281
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8249318#msg8249318
Yeah, we're hoping to support that kind of thing. The verticality, the lack-of-caveins, and the procedural material aspect. And I suppose we always have to ask what happens if you whack it with a pick.
Quote from: UthimienureWhy can't we make wooden training maces & warhammers?If I recollect, the reasoning at the time was that they take the edges off, which was a source of death/maiming in training. I don't remember if material weight/combat effects came before or after? Do mace dwarves spar with regular maces or do they not spar at all? Are there injuries with the real maces if so? In terms of real-world stuff, I'm not really aware of what distinctions were made or how much training weapons were ever used, for any weapon type. Just solving the bleeding problem at the time, but open for additions and changes.
In the meantime, I can try the [TRAINING] token in weapons.txt as suggested by FantasticDorf[/color]
I imagine for fort mode there'd be some irritations getting the two to be in the same place, but it's not much different from pets or animal jobs there. If fliers are involved, there could be additional issues.
Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of verminMaybe ghosts is the exception, but most events do give different reactions based on personality. It's more noticeable if you mod dwarves to have more extreme ranges of personality of course.
Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of verminYes. Ever has already happened...
Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of vermin
I believe there have been reports of extreme cases where events that are negative to the vast majority of dorfs is positive for a quirky individual.
A less extreme case is that dwarven baseline personality dislikes bad weather, but some like the outdoors and grumble only mildly at inclement weather.
So, the systems are there, but there's always room for expansion (once there's again time for something that's not strictly necessary).
Quote from: UthimienureWhy can't we make wooden training maces & warhammers?If I recollect, the reasoning at the time was that they take the edges off, which was a source of death/maiming in training. I don't remember if material weight/combat effects came before or after? Do mace dwarves spar with regular maces or do they not spar at all? Are there injuries with the real maces if so? In terms of real-world stuff, I'm not really aware of what distinctions were made or how much training weapons were ever used, for any weapon type. Just solving the bleeding problem at the time, but open for additions and changes.
Sparring is very safe with any weapon, as far as I've observed. Looking back, I should have also given the reason why I asked my question, because we approached it from two completely different angles. I wasn't concerned with sparring, but rather if we hadn't yet found metal to make the real weapons, but still wanted to train dwarfs in those weapon skills.
In the meantime, I can try the [TRAINING] token in weapons.txt as suggested by FantasticDorf
:1. Yes. It's long been recommended to equip the hammerer with a feather wood crossbow to reduce the injuries caused by beatings.
1. Would feather tree wood be light enough to only bruise as a blunt weapon?
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Given that some form(s) of magic essentially would be magical alchemy, it would seem reasonable that "real world" alchemy (a.k.a. chemistry) would make it into the game, although it remains to be seen when (I'd guess a fairly bare bones magical alchemy system would make it into the first Myth & Magic arc).
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Is alchemy coming back?
Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of verminMaybe ghosts is the exception, but most events do give different reactions based on personality. It's more noticeable if you mod dwarves to have more extreme ranges of personality of course.
And dwarves have phobias, I think any vermin are possible sources, it's in their descriptions. Leads to their "friends" drawing pictures of them screaming while surrounded by spiders and so on...
Will statues in the graphics release have a backup placeholder appearance, or does their content being shown visually mean the "statue of a ." bug will be getting more serious investigation prior to release?Lots of bugs will be looked at before Steam release. It's part of this arc's development plan. And if a statue relating to a farmer's guild doesn't display because of this bug, it'll likely be fixed sooner because it'll be discovered naturally when testing art/statues.
Neither do dwarves. People who don't like them make fun of them by depicting them surrounded by their feared vermin type.Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of verminMaybe ghosts is the exception, but most events do give different reactions based on personality. It's more noticeable if you mod dwarves to have more extreme ranges of personality of course.
And dwarves have phobias, I think any vermin are possible sources, it's in their descriptions. Leads to their "friends" drawing pictures of them screaming while surrounded by spiders and so on...
probably should have mentioned the hateable stuff part in my post
i meant more of a fear like id definitely not make art of my phobias personally
You spoke a little about pebbles in the recent DF Talk.1. Currently it's essentially just a description.
1. How do pebbles as terrain work?
2. Is there a way planned to reduce boulders to pebbly terrain, or was that just speculating about what you would need to do if there was a realistic amount of stone?
3. Are there any plans to introduce throwing combat into fortress mode or would our military love throwing their clothes too much for it to be sustainable?
4. Is there any chance of brave civilians tossing pebbles at an invading force, or a hated noble?
Will the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
Yes, I agree that changing workshops into work zones is a fairly substantial change, and I doubt it would be possible to be done in a save compatible manner (at least with a reasonable effort). Changing rooms from being designated from a furniture to having that same furniture being placed in a zone still plays with the same components.Will the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
It's in the cards for later. Has been mentioned a few times previously.Would be great to see, but I think that's a much bigger rewrite. I mean, a bedroom is a bedroom regardless of how you draw it. A 10x10 room which is now a designated "carpenter's zone" is a whole paradigm shift. Multiple workers, assistants, tools, what do you do with the space if you can designate a 5 z-level ultra-sized butchers workshop?
Of course, but it'd also really tidy up the whole building menu and unify two otherwise kind of clashing ideas, so I thought I'd ask if it was in the cards for now or later, since the motivation for the change was motivated by new players ability to grabble with it.
The tile set thread recently showed weapon rack and armor stand tiles, so it's rather unlikely they'll be removed. It certainly makes sense to fix these objects so they work as most everyone would expect, so it's probably more a matter of "when" than "if".
Chests and bags (I assume: I've never used them as constructed items) work for storing private items currently (and work horribly when shared between overlapping bedrooms and dorms [again assumed as I haven't even tried them there]), so storage of stuff there is not really a problem. Storage of squad equipment in barracks would be neat, especially if you don't have to disconnect the squads from the barracks when the militia is off duty to get them to engage in R&R (or civilian tasks) rather than individual training.
Regarding 'Bedroom Zones' in the March 8 update; Could this mechanic theoretically be applied to critters? Specifically, a 'Nest Box Zone' for the purpose of allowing underwater nest boxes to work, so we can finally breed the mythical Sea Serpent.
Regarding 'Bedroom Zones' in the March 8 update; Could this mechanic theoretically be applied to critters? Specifically, a 'Nest Box Zone' for the purpose of allowing underwater nest boxes to work, so we can finally breed the mythical Sea Serpent.You may, in fact, argue that the relationship between nest boxes and animal zones already is at the place where DF is heading, i.e. zones where you place appropriate furniture for use within it. The working of submerged nest boxes is a completely different issue that has nothing to do with zones as such.
Regarding kobolds and certain of their currently bizarre impulses - bizarre for a "context-based sublanguage",that is, to give a summary:I think it's an unfinished feature, rather than an error; the structures exist abstractly, but the game has no routines for generating them in kobold caves. In a similar vein, I have never been able to locate the taverns that supposedly reside in dark fortresses. A kobolds' library, now, would be incongruent, but think they might reasonably have markets or dungeons.
According to legends mode, kobolds may construct a market and a dungeon in their cave. As there is no evidence of any structures resembling such in kobold caves, they are probably either an error or serve an unknown purpose during world generation.
...which do you think it is? Thanks, anyway.
edit: formatting for extra clarity
Do you think we could expand further on the government and site control mechanics? I know DF is more of a world simulation than a strategy game and that we already have stuff like holdings, tribute and occupying sites mechanics, but after playing Crusader Kings for a while it seems there's a lot of mechanics that could be implemented to further flesh out both Adventure and Fortress gameplay:
-adding government types for civilizations instead of static feudal templates based on race. so we could have stuff like Dwarven Merchant Republics, Elven Theocracies, or Tribal Human civilizations.
-those government archetypes would have base mechanics but many of its rules could be procedurally generated, so for example, Civilization A could be your current fort's home civilization and they are a Theocracy ruled by a female and a set of arch bishops which are taken as consorts to the holy ruler, this is due to their god head being a deity with spheres of Fertility, Womanhood or stuff like that. while Civilization B is a Human Merchant Republic ruled by a group of barons, each one of different races because their culture has spheres regarding diversity and diplomacy or some stuff like that.
-Fortress mode not being limited to just Dwarven civilizations but instead being able to select from the current, living civilizations instead. (different race fortresses can be done with modding but i mean changing the fortress mode selection to make players able to create settlements different than a Fortress by basing the system on civilizations instead of race).
-Tribal races can form villages in the map, they are very basic sites with huts and other important buildings like worship circles or wells.
-Tribal civilizations can form in the world if a tribe or group of them occupies a territory of certain size
-Nomadic civilizations could exist with single static sites as trading/diplomatic/pilgrimae centers while the rest of the race moves around their territories. (could work like constantly marching armies or groups of traders)
-Tribal and Nomadic civilizations may raid or occupy other civilizations
-Faith, Wealth, Prestige, Holding Size, Culture, Government Type and Knowledge are now used to calculate diplomatic relations and the chance of certain events happening on fortress mode. so for example Fortress A has a huge library with a substantial amount of settlers writing and copying books from all over the world, this fortress doesnt do much outside of that so its wealth, faith and prestige may be below average but certain factions like Necromancers may be interested on raiding the site for knowledge, meanwhile Fortress B is built from a Merchant Republic and as such its citizens are very keen on making a profit so its a highly sought target from raiding based cultures both feudal, tribal or nomadic.
-Megabeast attacks could be out of this equation and instead be random happenings due to close proximity to their lairs (no more Titans crossing continent and a half to destroy your fort....)
-Evil civilization rulers may raid other civilizations based on their spheres. like raiding nearby Merchant Republics for wealth or nearby settlements from other civilizations for slaves
-Good biome civilizations may exist too, with the same kind of interactions as Evil ones based on their leader's cultural spheres. (perhaps a SPOILER related entity controls this civilization or they are usually led by a religious figure instead)
-Adventurers can form civilizations if they control a sizeable amount of sites. (would probably be like declaring the title and then retiring your adventurer, with that civilization appearing on the list when making a new fortress, or playing the main site directly)
-different types of Casus Belli may exist for limiting civilization attacks on each other. theocracies may declare holy wars to reclaim a site, nobles or rules may fabricate claims on nearby settlements. tribal/nomadic/evil civilizations may declare invasions and so on
-Economy focused civilizations may form trade routes on their territory and with other civilizations creating a path of wealth along the map. their capital settlements being the main nodes along the routes.
-Dead civilizations may be forgotten overtime, only their ruins and artifacts stating in the game but characters in the world wouldnt be able to trace their origin (they would basically be erased from the civilization records and legends after a while, their sites, historical figures and artifacts being marked as hailing from a "mysterious civilization" or something like that)
-sailing update could add merchant fleets, which move around wealth between trading ports
-Civilizations may create colonies on distant unexplored territories via sailing (once implemented).
-Colonies may have different ruling systems based on their parent civilization, unrest or lack of development may force them to rebel an declare independent civilizations.
there's a lot more but i think the list is getting too long. just wanted to get the most essential stuff in.
:As Silverwing235 said, these aren't really questions but rather suggestions.
-Fortress mode not being limited to just Dwarven civilizations but instead being able to select from the current, living civilizations instead. (different race fortresses can be done with modding but i mean changing the fortress mode selection to make players able to create settlements different than a Fortress by basing the system on civilizations instead of race).
-Tribal races can form villages in the map, they are very basic sites with huts and other important buildings like worship circles or wells.
-Tribal civilizations can form in the world if a tribe or group of them occupies a territory of certain size
-Nomadic civilizations could exist with single static sites as trading/diplomatic/pilgrimae centers while the rest of the race moves around their territories. (could work like constantly marching armies or groups of traders)
:
-Evil civilization rulers may raid other civilizations based on their spheres. like raiding nearby Merchant Republics for wealth or nearby settlements from other civilizations for slaves
-Good biome civilizations may exist too, with the same kind of interactions as Evil ones based on their leader's cultural spheres. (perhaps a SPOILER related entity controls this civilization or they are usually led by a religious figure instead)
:
-Civilizations may create colonies on distant unexplored territories via sailing (once implemented).
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With the zone style rooms, will we now be able to assign multiple individuals to a single room (as some other zone designations allow) or will it remain as it currently is with either just a single owner or else no particular owner?If you'd be able to explicitly assign multiple dorfs to the same room (the current system automatically assigns the spouse to the same room), there would need to be a warning about usage of storage furniture until such a time such furniture can either be shared or assigned to individuals (the latter being a worse alternative).
What actual in-game cases are people wanting to assign multiple people to a bedroom, besides enforced honeymoon suites (shouldn't be a vanilla thing in my opinion) of course, where a dormitory wouldn't suffice?With the zone style rooms, will we now be able to assign multiple individuals to a single room (as some other zone designations allow) or will it remain as it currently is with either just a single owner or else no particular owner?If you'd be able to explicitly assign multiple dorfs to the same room (the current system automatically assigns the spouse to the same room), there would need to be a warning about usage of storage furniture until such a time such furniture can either be shared or assigned to individuals (the latter being a worse alternative).
I'd be rather surprised if it happened before Myth & Magic, as reorganizing all workshops likely would be a substantial task.
Do you intend the new room designating to trial the 'decentralised' workshop system you once spoke of, in which the function of a zone is determined by the tools/furnature present?
Can we expect the undead and non-biological monsters (eg titans made of stone) after the Myth&Magic release to have greater complexity of their "mechanics" on par with living things? What I mean by this is living things currently have blood amounts, pain, fear, muscles, ligaments, guts etc. all effecting combat and abilities while animated dead and non-biological monsters have none of that and are relatively simplified mechanics-wise. I suppose after myth&magic there will be some kind of functional magic that stands in for functional blood and muscles, like "pulling 5% of the aura from the nearest piece of underworld slade" or whatever?Changing the non living (and non reanimated) monsters won't happen automatically as a result of Myth & Magic, but would require its own development task. With Myth & Magic the non living monsters can be explained away as being powered by a magic source inside them (node or whatever, that just dissipates when the critter is destroyed: later development might allow harvest of that whatever, but that's later development), while leaving their functionality unchanged (until the time to flesh out the system arrives).
I was under the impression that the Myth & Magic arc *is* to flesh out that kind of functionality. Though I suppose if the arc is slit up into multiple pushes, which Toady has said it will be, it makes sense to place that kind of work in the second or subsequent one while the first push is geared towards the generation of the spheres that explain the existence of the undead or whatever. Thanks for the reply.Can we expect the undead and non-biological monsters (eg titans made of stone) after the Myth&Magic release to have greater complexity of their "mechanics" on par with living things? What I mean by this is living things currently have blood amounts, pain, fear, muscles, ligaments, guts etc. all effecting combat and abilities while animated dead and non-biological monsters have none of that and are relatively simplified mechanics-wise. I suppose after myth&magic there will be some kind of functional magic that stands in for functional blood and muscles, like "pulling 5% of the aura from the nearest piece of underworld slade" or whatever?Changing the non living (and non reanimated) monsters won't happen automatically as a result of Myth & Magic, but would require its own development task. With Myth & Magic the non living monsters can be explained away as being powered by a magic source inside them (node or whatever, that just dissipates when the critter is destroyed: later development might allow harvest of that whatever, but that's later development), while leaving their functionality unchanged (until the time to flesh out the system arrives).
Can we expect the undead and non-biological monsters (eg titans made of stone) after the Myth&Magic release to have greater complexity of their "mechanics" on par with living things? What I mean by this is living things currently have blood amounts, pain, fear, muscles, ligaments, guts etc. all effecting combat and abilities while animated dead and non-biological monsters have none of that and are relatively simplified mechanics-wise. I suppose after myth&magic there will be some kind of functional magic that stands in for functional blood and muscles, like "pulling 5% of the aura from the nearest piece of underworld slade" or whatever?Welcome to the forum! I hope you stick around!
I'm not sure if it's been asked yet, but are we likely to see workshops zonified in the same way bedrooms and the like are? Will it require creating certain tools instead of making most workshops out of just one material? I'm thinking of the way forges and dye workshops are built, requiring an anvil or barrel.Yes, it's the direction Toady is heading in. However, probably won't happen before Myth & Magic. See my previous attempt to answer this a few posts up (kontako asked basically the same question).
If dorfs were free to claim furniture....As an option I mean.
A chair and a table can equally well be used as an office or a dining room, and both pieces of furniture would be required for the room to be functional in a real setting, so there is no way to automatically deduce what the room is intended for. You could, of course, add logic to try to set the room to the type matching the furniture in the center, but that's defeated both by rooms that have even tile dimensions (so there are 4 tiles equally close to the center) and by the practice I have (I may or may not be alone) of placing non masterwork furniture offset from the location I will eventually place masterwork replacements in. That way I can place the new furniture first and remove the inferior one afterwards, without interrupting the room's functionality.Yes, hence my question. Are furniture designated rooms gone (March 8th statement) or not (Implied in March 19th statement)?
I wouldn't expect improved sieges to introduce improved siege weapons, as those are very strong candidates for rework during boats/movable equipment/traps work, and so would be scrapped and reworked at that time.
Tents already pop up in refugee camps, will the reworked sieges make use of them as well?
Likewise, will a sieging army make use of artillery as we know it, or will artillery be reworked?
I like to imagine sieging armies set up camps and patrols, raiding your surrounding settlements to coax you out, and for artillery fire to follow an arc, followed by area-of-effect/structure damage.
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Is the area rework contemplating or serving as a base for the planned workshop rework into areas?At the very least I'd expect it to serve as tests of some principles that may be of use. Lessons learned might then be applied both to workshops and the zones implemented now (and the ones existing in the current version).
I wouldn't expect improved sieges to introduce improved siege weapons, as those are very strong candidates for rework during boats/movable equipment/traps work, and so would be scrapped and reworked at that time.
Why would enemies that don't eat or sleep use camps, and what would patrols achieve? Patrols would have a purpose if the sieger doesn't know things instantly, i.e. if scouts/patrols would have to report the opening/closing of avenues of entries, defender patrols being sent out, etc. to their on scene command and it would then send orders back to react to what's reported. That would make the whole affair very sluggish.
I wouldn't expect improved sieges to introduce improved siege weapons, as those are very strong candidates for rework during boats/movable equipment/traps work, and so would be scrapped and reworked at that time.
I thought much the same, though I wasn't sure how else 'improved' sieges would work in the next release, other than invaders just digging through everything.Why would enemies that don't eat or sleep use camps, and what would patrols achieve? Patrols would have a purpose if the sieger doesn't know things instantly, i.e. if scouts/patrols would have to report the opening/closing of avenues of entries, defender patrols being sent out, etc. to their on scene command and it would then send orders back to react to what's reported. That would make the whole affair very sluggish.
Currently they just stand out in the fields, for months at a time, braving the wind, rain and snow... It seems much stranger to me than forming camps.
Why? It serves as a fortified position to organise the siege, collect and store resources to construct siege weapons, and serves as a counter-objective for the player to attack with their own siege weapons and defences.
I like to imagine goblins shouting at eachother around a table prior to every assault, or the lone necromancer menacingly watching from afar on a throne in the only tent.
Sieges are supposed take a long time, in that case I don't see sluggish as bad.
Quote from: squamous3. A lot of demon stuff seems to be tied to the existence of procedurally generated demons (ie custom demons won't spawn unless they're enabled etc). Are there any tags or adv worldgen edits I could make to negate this?
3. For the spire-creating demons, looking at how it works, having UNIQUE_DEMON and CAN_LEARN/INTELLIGENT on them should put them in the candidate pool, without them needing to be procedural and even with the proc demons set to zero, but you can't turn off the spire process for generated/raw creatures with those tags (UNIQUE_DEMON is overloaded in that sense.) I may be misunderstanding the question. Do the custom spire demons not appear in world gen if proc demons are turned off (Bottom Layer needs to be turned on, since the spire connects)? Or do you mean after digging?
when can we expect more procedurally generated culture like what we have for music, particularly art styles for images and patterns for decorations?Next big arc after Mythgen releases, "Starting Scenarios", is due to take on society, culture and politics in detail.
Well, currently sieges last for one season or one year, unless broken before that (with some odd exceptions that are probably bugs).
As it currently stands, I send attackers to one entrance until the traps are filled (or, if I'd used militia, the kill zone was sufficiently populated), block that entrance, and open another, while "processing" the first one. However, if observations had to be made and reported, the closing of the first entrance wouldn't stop enemies rushing for it until after a couple of days, and similarly, it would take additional time before scouts would report the second entrance being open and enemies starting to move towards it. It already takes a couple of days for enemies to cross the embark to attack from the other side, and adding additional time to that just makes things more boring, possibly to the point where I'd just take out a first wave to get some goblinite, but then just wait it out if it doesn't seem possible to wear them down before they give up and leave anyway (it's a bit tricky to try to juggle the current mega project while also dealing with a siege: the siege typically tends to demand the full attention both of me and of the dorfs [all hands on deck]).
Current siege weapons are essentially useless for trying to hit a random target on the embark, given the restrictions currently in place, so a camp wouldn't really make a viable target.
If you could control squads I could definitely see them being useful if the enemy was under a fog of war restriction so you could raid the enemy (that typically outnumber your forces significantly), but on the other hand it would be odd if you had a complete overview of the map and the enemy didn't.
I guess we'll see more about where Improved Sieges will head when Toady starts to work on it.
Will there ever be different reactions to certain events and things based on personality quirks? for example most dwarves are horrified by ghosts but some might be fascinated/excited by them and react accordingly or dwarves having phobias of things such as types of vermin
1. Would feather tree wood be light enough to only bruise as a blunt weapon?
2. How is impact damage currently calculated for blunt weapons, especially in regards to armor penetration(which is quite high for blunt if I remember correctly)?
3. Have you considered having (higher tier?) tools made of more than one material, like a wooden axe handle + leather grip + metal head, possibly even customizable?
4. Is there a plan for varying wood value?
Will army formations be in the game? Will it be like or use dancing? Is alchemy coming back?
Will statues in the graphics release have a backup placeholder appearance, or does their content being shown visually mean the "statue of a ." bug will be getting more serious investigation prior to release?
1. How do pebbles as terrain work?
2. Is there a way planned to reduce boulders to pebbly terrain, or was that just speculating about what you would need to do if there was a realistic amount of stone?
3. Are there any plans to introduce throwing combat into fortress mode or would our military love throwing their clothes too much for it to be sustainable?
4. Is there any chance of brave civilians tossing pebbles at an invading force, or a hated noble?
Do you anticipate potential problems where a mechanic could be easily implemented and rendered in the graphical version of dwarf fortress, but would be difficult to convey in the classic version? An example of this might be narrow barriers that are placed and drawn on the borders between tiles, rather than in the tiles themselves. Partitions for rooms, or fences for pastures, etc.
The graphical version opens a lot of possibilities up for DF, and I worry that the classical version might hold some of those back. Do you have thoughts about balancing potential new mechanics vs. backwards compatibility?
Quote from: clinodevWith the new bedroom zones discussed in the March 8th DevLog, will we still be in a situation of having to draw hundreds of individual bedrooms? I can imagine a situation where the game knows to flood fill out from individual rooms defined by doors and walls, or perhaps beds, within the zone, treating them as individual bedrooms but vastly simplifying player layout.
"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?" --From /u/bbkilmister on reddit, excellent question!Quote from: Shonai_DwellerMarch 8th: "Furniture based rooms are not going to survive"
March 19th: "...it uses a flood routine from each potential piece of furniture"
So, which is it? Are bedrooms linked to beds now or not? Can we make a bedroom without a bed by just drawing a zone and calling it a bedroom? And can flood fill designate a hundred enclosed rooms as "bedrooms" if they don't contain beds? Or will that just not work?
Also does flood-fill automatically know what kind of room I want based on it's furniture? Or do we have to choose "bedroom--flood fill", then "office-flood-fill", etc. So if I have 10 bedrooms and a manager's office (with furniture) can I drag a zone and it'll know to make an office from the chair and bedrooms from the beds.
And if it is automatic, what if I have a room with a table, a chair and a statue, will it know this is a pleasant dining room or might it be confused and call it a statue garden or an office?
Quote from: LysabildWill the workshops get the same treatment as rooms now or later? So instead of putting down a 3x3 'forge' you put down an anvil and whatever else it wants, letting you customize rooms much more while building.Quote from: kontakoDo you intend the new room designating to trial the 'decentralised' workshop system you once spoke of, in which the function of a zone is determined by the tools/furnature present?Quote from: Buttery_MessI'm not sure if it's been asked yet, but are we likely to see workshops zonified in the same way bedrooms and the like are? Will it require creating certain tools instead of making most workshops out of just one material? I'm thinking of the way forges and dye workshops are built, requiring an anvil or barrel.Quote from: LordBaalIs the area rework contemplating or serving as a base for the planned workshop rework into areas?
With the new way that rooms are designated, will it still be possible to have overlapping room designations - such as a shared office / dining room?
With barracks and archery ranges being within the room zone changes (barracks not explicitly said), will the function of armor and weapon stands as a place for storage be planned to be somewhat salvaged or rebuilt from the ground up?
Fingers crossed for stashing away stuff in bedrooms and armories, with less juggling of item ownership of having it loose in a pile or stack of bins.
Where would a dwarf who's made a particular attachment to a object or a preference (oft a slayer artifact with its own rules) want to store their objects out of duty?
Regarding 'Bedroom Zones' in the March 8 update; Could this mechanic theoretically be applied to critters? Specifically, a 'Nest Box Zone' for the purpose of allowing underwater nest boxes to work, so we can finally breed the mythical Sea Serpent.
Regarding kobolds and certain of their currently bizarre impulses - bizarre for a "context-based sublanguage",that is, to give a summary:
According to legends mode, kobolds may construct a market and a dungeon in their cave. As there is no evidence of any structures resembling such in kobold caves, they are probably either an error or serve an unknown purpose during world generation.
...which do you think it is? Thanks, anyway.
Do you think we could expand further on the government and site control mechanics? I know DF is more of a world simulation than a strategy game and that we already have stuff like holdings, tribute and occupying sites mechanics, but after playing Crusader Kings for a while it seems there's a lot of mechanics that could be implemented to further flesh out both Adventure and Fortress gameplay:
<various government ideas>
I'm impressed by how customisable the graphics are going to be. Are you thinking of trying something similar for the music? While vanilla may only have seasonal and maybe "siege" music, for modders being able to assign a unique soundtrack for each invading force/megabeast attack would be great.
Also, are you planning sound effects for Steam release too?
With the zone style rooms, will we now be able to assign multiple individuals to a single room (as some other zone designations allow) or will it remain as it currently is with either just a single owner or else no particular owner?
Can we expect the undead and non-biological monsters (eg titans made of stone) after the Myth&Magic release to have greater complexity of their "mechanics" on par with living things? What I mean by this is living things currently have blood amounts, pain, fear, muscles, ligaments, guts etc. all effecting combat and abilities while animated dead and non-biological monsters have none of that and are relatively simplified mechanics-wise. I suppose after myth&magic there will be some kind of functional magic that stands in for functional blood and muscles, like "pulling 5% of the aura from the nearest piece of underworld slade" or whatever?
Archery range updates sound excellent! Can these ranges be set over multiple z-levels, or was your wooden platform at the same level as the distant cliff targets?
Related (kind-of) to flood-fill assigning of tombs, has something been added for regular coffins too? Enabling every one of those for burial (or, most likely forgetting to until miasma is filling up your tavern) is kind of annoying.
Flood-fill bedrooms - if we're setting a bunch of bedrooms for the tavern, will we still have to go back to set the location one at a time, or can this also be mass-selected?
Tents already pop up in refugee camps, will the reworked sieges make use of them as well?
Likewise, will a sieging army make use of artillery as we know it, or will artillery be reworked?
I like to imagine sieging armies set up camps and patrols, raiding your surrounding settlements to coax you out, and for artillery fire to follow an arc, followed by area-of-effect/structure damage.
Unrelated to above, can all historical events which occur in world generation also occur in the world (whether on or off-screen) during fortress mode?
What sort of activities will adventurers be able to do in the military update? I assume commanding armies, but how will that work? Will site leaders give us troops and tell us to go and attack a certain spot or something?
In the far future do you think it would be possible to have self-propelled siege engines, or mod them in? Like landships or something.
What does UNDEAD_CANDIDATE (the entity token) do? The wiki entry seems unsure.
What factors cause a dirt road to evolve into a higher-tier road in worldgen?
when can we expect more procedurally generated culture like what we have for music, particularly art styles for images and patterns for decorations?
Has anything been revealed on how the manager page will be reworked?
In the magic update are there going to be procedural workshops or something similar, for doing magical stuff, like creating golems?
Given the new graphical requirements for creatures due to the steam release do you foresee the myth and magic update taking slightly longer due to needing to be able to graphically represent large quantities of randomly generated creatures?
Thanks as always for the answers!The question was answered, although that particular variation of the question wasn't quoted:
I'll go ahead and throw the one you missed about z-levels back in the mix:
"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?"
--From /u/bbkilmister on reddit, excellent question!
Thanks as always for the answers!The question was answered, although that particular variation of the question wasn't quoted:
I'll go ahead and throw the one you missed about z-levels back in the mix:
"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?"
--From /u/bbkilmister on reddit, excellent question!
[snip]
"
Always the same z level! Any fundamental change to the 'building' concept is going to have to wait until the map rewrite.
:
"
Will it be possible to play the older versions of DF to be available to play on Steam and itch? I understand that remaking them on the same scale the current version is being updated, but making them available to play as they are available now on bay12?What do you hope to achieve playing in Steam that you can't do by just downloading and playing the games from Bay12?
If you have an idea at this early stage, roughly speaking, how will the steam workshop handle mods and their compatibility/conflicts? That is, different mods making changes to the same raw files or objects?
If you have an idea at this early stage, roughly speaking, how will the steam workshop handle mods and their compatibility/conflicts? That is, different mods making changes to the same raw files or objects?
I'm excited to see how this goes. Hopefully tilesets won't touch the raws anymore, at least. I know there have been a couple different mod merging projects to reconcile multiple mods, and mods with tilesets, but my impression is they've not solved the problem.
The Premium release will see a separation of tile sets from raws (to e.g. allow a Premium version player to share a save with a Classic version player regardless of whether the Premium player uses the Premium tile set unavailable to the Classic version). This means the raw information will be reorganized. Also, the new tile set functionality introduced by the Premium release will have to get raw representations, some of which may well replace some that exists now. Thus, migrating an existing tile set to work with the Premium release is probably a fair bit of work, mostly because the raw info has to be moved to fit into the decoupled organization (plus an optional amount of work to support the new functionality, if desired: you can spend more work than what Meph + Mayday does for the official Premium version tile set to support what's possible but they simply don't have time to support [now]).If you have an idea at this early stage, roughly speaking, how will the steam workshop handle mods and their compatibility/conflicts? That is, different mods making changes to the same raw files or objects?
I'm excited to see how this goes. Hopefully tilesets won't touch the raws anymore, at least. I know there have been a couple different mod merging projects to reconcile multiple mods, and mods with tilesets, but my impression is they've not solved the problem.
Incidentally, I have another related question along these lines.
Are the graphics raws (ie `[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]`) likely to change much/be made obsolete (compared to now) when the Steam release comes out?
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If you have an idea at this early stage, roughly speaking, how will the steam workshop handle mods and their compatibility/conflicts? That is, different mods making changes to the same raw files or objects?
I'm excited to see how this goes. Hopefully tilesets won't touch the raws anymore, at least. I know there have been a couple different mod merging projects to reconcile multiple mods, and mods with tilesets, but my impression is they've not solved the problem.
Incidentally, I have another related question along these lines.
Are the graphics raws (ie `[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]`) likely to change much/be made obsolete (compared to now) when the Steam release comes out?
And in general I guess, what sort of changes can we expect to happen in the raw files for the Steam release (and also the accompanying Classic version update)?
Will there be a way to change the positions and/or sizes of some UI elements (buttons, menus etc), either as an ingame option/setting, or via modding? I ask because in so far, I'm a bit worried about how far spread out various UI elements are: ...I second this question/worry, and truly hope we can play entirely without the mouse!
:2: Villains can offer immortality as an incentive to work for them (both vampirism and necromancy), and presumably those who accept that offer also desire immortality. Thus, it's likely the immortality drive is a factor behind a desire to build towers (although I could make a case for e.g. knowledge seeking to be another driving factor if you'd acquired it through other means, such as reading a book with the secret).
2. Besides being able to create reanimated minions, what are the factors which influence an NPC to build a necromancer tower? I'm trying to create a situation where a creature spreads the necromancy syndrome via a werebeast bite, but the victims never seem to build towers. Is it a matter of having the syndrome alter their personalities so they want to build towers, or something more complex? I know the only people who get slabs in the first place desire immortality, so that might have something to do with it.
3. How will the steam modding workshop function after the steam release? Are there any plans to use it or will mods just remain on the normal uploading websites?
I'm not sure if it's been replied before. It is likely, but I'll take the chance.Previously the answer has been yes, the game will be controllable on the keyboard. Don't think anything's changed.
I just watched the Spring update video, and it reminded me of this question I had for a while :
1. Will the graphical release have keyboard shortcuts ? Asking because it seems slower to use the mouse in certain situations...
2. Will the game have full keyboard-only support, or will you must use the mouse at some points ?
I'm not sure if it's been replied before. It is likely, but I'll take the chance.
I just watched the Spring update video, and it reminded me of this question I had for a while :
1. Will the graphical release have keyboard shortcuts ? Asking because it seems slower to use the mouse in certain situations...
2. Will the game have full keyboard-only support, or will you must use the mouse at some points ?
Quote from: Suin every demonstration i've seen of the new guis, all the interactions have been made with the mouse. currently, i play with the mouse completely disabled via the init files - will the new graphical interfaces [which are looking very very pretty, by the way!] be usable with just my keyboard?
DG: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8197475#msg8197475 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8197475#msg8197475)
Yeah, the situation remains unchanged from my reply to DG. The plan is to support a non-mouse approach. There are some complications to this, but it seems feasible given that DF has managed it (in whatever inglorious fashion) to this point. Seems likely we'll just need to support multiple interface setups now, for the numpadless WASD people, to the mouseless-by-choice. As we mentioned previously, the new look of the menus/etc. in Classic will need to be aligned with whatever's going on in Premium, since I can't maintain two entirely separate interfaces, but that can be made keyboard compatible. I still have all the old cursor code, etc., and that may just have to be something that's turned on in an option, especially for dragging out rectangles and so forth where it doesn't align with the new paradigm very well.
Will universal beards for dwarves ever qualify as an INIT setting? If so, what category of work do you think it would fall under? It's not hard to mod in, but is it a tonal slider kind of thing? Something that's more suitable for the cultural updates when there's generated genders to go around? If it's never in the INIT is there any intention to direct Steam users who really expect one experience or the other from Dwarves to the file where you already tutorialize it?
Will universal beards for dwarves ever qualify as an INIT setting? If so, what category of work do you think it would fall under? It's not hard to mod in, but is it a tonal slider kind of thing? Something that's more suitable for the cultural updates when there's generated genders to go around? If it's never in the INIT is there any intention to direct Steam users who really expect one experience or the other from Dwarves to the file where you already tutorialize it?
Universal bears can already be very easily be modded in. The raw files are no more difficult to mod than the init file.
Will universal beards for dwarves ever qualify as an INIT setting? If so, what category of work do you think it would fall under? It's not hard to mod in, but is it a tonal slider kind of thing? Something that's more suitable for the cultural updates when there's generated genders to go around? If it's never in the INIT is there any intention to direct Steam users who really expect one experience or the other from Dwarves to the file where you already tutorialize it?
Female dwarves are beardless, elves are vicious, insulting cannibals, and so on.
The dwarf raws are full of comments teaching how to mod a creature yes, including an example of adding beards for female dwarves if you want (since it's a popular mod).Female dwarves are beardless, elves are vicious, insulting cannibals, and so on.
I think beards for female dwarves exists commented-out in the raws, FWIW.
Raws inserting init options is an interesting suggestion to put forward, especially as init files will be moved to become in-game settings (iirc). I'm sure some modders/players would appreciate little toggles/sliders for e.g. custom entity invasion caps. If it the Steam Workshop implementation turns out simple enough this might be overkill though.
Since you've mentioned there'd be more updates after the steam release but before the myth and magic arc is there any chance any of those updates could add ways for player adventurers to acquire combat magic similar to what sentient undead can use to help tide us over for the big wait?
"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?"
Will it be possible to play the older versions of DF to be available to play on Steam and itch? I understand that remaking them on the same scale the current version is being updated, but making them available to play as they are available now on bay12?
Quote from: Mr_CrabmanIf you have an idea at this early stage, roughly speaking, how will the steam workshop handle mods and their compatibility/conflicts? That is, different mods making changes to the same raw files or objects?
Are the graphics raws (ie `[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]`) likely to change much/be made obsolete (compared to now) when the Steam release comes out?
And in general I guess, what sort of changes can we expect to happen in the raw files for the Steam release (and also the accompanying Classic version update)?Quote from: squamous3. How will the steam modding workshop function after the steam release? Are there any plans to use it or will mods just remain on the normal uploading websites?
Quote from: Relative_Programmingwill there be smooth scrolling of the view of the current area in the Steam version?Quote from: Mr_Crabman4: I know smoothly moving creatures between tiles instead of blinking from tile to tile won't be happening on the release of Premium (from what you said before), but is it on the table for being added later at some point?
Will there be a way to change the positions and/or sizes of some UI elements (buttons, menus etc), either as an ingame option/setting, or via modding?
Also, if on a higher elevation layer, can creatures below be seen on the terrain?
1. What are the factors that cause bandit camps to spawn besides the banditry percentage token in the entity file? I've genned a world that's all mountains/tundra and no water at all, which seems to have prevented them from being constructed. I'm wondering if there's something I could tweak to alter this.
2. Besides being able to create reanimated minions, what are the factors which influence an NPC to build a necromancer tower? I'm trying to create a situation where a creature spreads the necromancy syndrome via a werebeast bite, but the victims never seem to build towers. Is it a matter of having the syndrome alter their personalities so they want to build towers, or something more complex? I know the only people who get slabs in the first place desire immortality, so that might have something to do with it.
4. Are there any pre-Big Wait changes to the armor and weapon raws planned?
1. Will the graphical release have keyboard shortcuts ? Asking because it seems slower to use the mouse in certain situations...
2. Will the game have full keyboard-only support, or will you must use the mouse at some points ?
Will universal beards for dwarves ever qualify as an INIT setting? If so, what category of work do you think it would fall under? It's not hard to mod in, but is it a tonal slider kind of thing? Something that's more suitable for the cultural updates when there's generated genders to go around? If it's never in the INIT is there any intention to direct Steam users who really expect one experience or the other from Dwarves to the file where you already tutorialize it?
1: How do you expect multi tile creatures (when they become a thing in however many years) to work?
By this I mean, wagons are 3x3 at all times and cannot change their shape/footprint at all, only rotate (so they're "stiff"), and if they were 2x3 instead presumably they would still be able to rotate, but only still be 2x3 rectangles (ie they don't have limbs that can move separate from the body, and they are basically just boxes shape-wise).
So basically, would other creatures also be "stiff" and non-complex like wagons, and if not, do you expect this do be a problem for the premium version? As an example I can almost imagine a long snakelike creature that can move diagonally (because it's not stiff), but this would be quite disjointed looking in a tileset (though ultimately it would be a worth it even if it looks a bit strange).
2: Maybe a silly question and I expect the answer is yes, but would multi-tile creatures be viewed from the top down (like wagons in the Premium tileset) as opposed to a side profile (like the large creatures are currently)?
3: How big would be big enough to justify a creature being multi-tile?
5: Has the situation with Linux support for the Steam version changed since last time you were asked?
6: When the siege update comes, will siegers have to have a supply line/eat food brought from the outside or with them?
7: Will the likes of clowns and other procedurally generated creatures have some of their generation logic exposed to the raws one day (eg, adding new body types/parts and abilities/interactions that can be had and the like)?
8: You've said you're considering Steam achievements for encouraging players to try new things they might not otherwise ("start a honey industry" for example), but what are your thoughts on achievements for challenges to undertake, like "live on an embark for X years without doing X", or events like "encounter your first X"?
9: To what extent will magic generation be controllable? You've mentioned for example having no deities, or having a slider for "how magical" a world is overall, but how far/specific would this control go? I guess this ties in to question 6 a bit as well.
10: Other than the "stingers" for announcements you mentioned elsewhere, how much new music will be in the Premium release?
Since you've mentioned there'd be more updates after the steam release but before the myth and magic arc is there any chance any of those updates could add ways for player adventurers to acquire combat magic similar to what sentient undead can use to help tide us over for the big wait?
Quote from: /u/bbkilmister on reddit via clinodev"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?"
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8265634#msg8265634
clinodev (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8265645#msg8265645
Ha ha, sadly, no, I was talking about buildings generally that currently operate on one z level. The z-location variable is all over the place, so even rewriting, say, the bedrooms as locations still involves a lot of rewrites everywhere to get them to work.
Quote from: /u/bbkilmister on reddit via clinodev"So, does this mean we can actually make multi z-level tall bed/throne rooms (if their assignment works the same way as with other zones)?"
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8265634#msg8265634
clinodev (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8265645#msg8265645
Ha ha, sadly, no, I was talking about buildings generally that currently operate on one z level. The z-location variable is all over the place, so even rewriting, say, the bedrooms as locations still involves a lot of rewrites everywhere to get them to work.
Alas! This is one of the things I really hope to see in the "Underground Rewrite!"
I know that all can get complicated with load orders and all that, so it might just have to reject mods that try to create the same objects, although I might be able to check if the text is identical for a given loaded object and then just pass it over the second time and accept the rest of the mod.
children will have menial tasks to perform and keep the fortress running smoothly, what does he mean by this? Children will help to do simple tasks, like hauling? Does this mean they'll have a limited labour menu? Now that you've taken a look at child labour, does that mean that they'll be able to, for instance, attend educational courses at guildhalls, or something, as well?
ThreeToe says,Quotechildren will have menial tasks to perform and keep the fortress running smoothlywhat does he mean by this? Children will help to do simple tasks, like hauling? Does this mean they'll have a limited labour menu? Now that you've taken a look at child labour, does that mean that they'll be able to, for instance, attend educational courses at guildhalls, or something, as well?
I know that all can get complicated with load orders and all that, so it might just have to reject mods that try to create the same objects, although I might be able to check if the text is identical for a given loaded object and then just pass it over the second time and accept the rest of the mod.
What do you think of a "Minecraft resource pack"-like solution of having a menu where the player can define the load order of mods themselves, such that if a mod tries to create the same object as another mod, whatever mod is on the top of the load order would override the first version of the object? The same could go for mods trying to overwrite the same vanilla object (assuming merging objects can't be done).
1. With the myth/magic update, is there anything planned regarding evolution or corruption of different races and species (sentient and non-sentient)? This could include either initial mythical origins, "natural" evolution and mutations, hybrid species, or unnatural/magical forces and experiments.
[...]
[...] [The abridged version of dwarven myth] doesn't cover kobolds at all, right. Unless dwarves were made from kobolds, which can happen.And if you open the spoiler below there's a myth demo screenshot showing goblins being cursed forms of dwarves (from this interview (https://www.pcgamer.com/dwarf-fortress-creator-on-how-hes-42-towards-simulating-existence/2/)).
2. Studying and accessing magic sources, or swearing allegiance to cosmic entities (or their servants) in order to magically summon/teleport creatures from other planes of existence would be badass. This includes either summoning actively in battle, or by constructing large structures/portals in order to summon/transport large amounts of such creatures, or even avatars of the cosmic entities. Of course, tapping into these forces would have huge costs or drawbacks, etc...
loads of stuffThanks bro. The DF Talk about myth generation blew me away.
In one of the most recent DF talks (either 27 or 28) it was also mentioned that dwarven cheese will get a little animation, so we are getting more if it with Premium.I don't think I want to eat animated cheese.
In one of the most recent DF talks (either 27 or 28) it was also mentioned that dwarven cheese will get a little animation, so we are getting more if it with Premium.I don't think I want to eat animated cheese.
In one of the most recent DF talks (either 27 or 28) it was also mentioned that dwarven cheese will get a little animation, so we are getting more if it with Premium.I don't think I want to eat animated cheese.
In one of the most recent DF talks (either 27 or 28) it was also mentioned that dwarven cheese will get a little animation, so we are getting more if it with Premium.I don't think I want to eat animated cheese.
Why not? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casu_martzu)
Because the larvae in the cheese can launch themselves for distances up to 15 centimetres (6 in) when disturbed,[4][11] diners hold their hands above the sandwich to prevent the maggots from leaping.
DF needs self-launching maggots now.
2) Will (clear) glass become transparent?From what I've seen with glass bridge previews shown by Meph, I'd say yes. This probably won't have a mechanical difference though, just visual.
If that is so, then either the mechanics ought to follow suit or the rendering changed to match the implementation. It's not good when the visuals imply something that isn't actually working that way in the game. A real life bridge made out of glass would (if it wouldn't shatter) probably let a little light through, but smear it out completely so no shapes were seen. If nothing else, it would quickly be scratched.2) Will (clear) glass become transparent?From what I've seen with glass bridge previews shown by Meph, I'd say yes. This probably won't have a mechanical difference though, just visual.
If that is so, then either the mechanics ought to follow suit or the rendering changed to match the implementation. It's not good when the visuals imply something that isn't actually working that way in the game. A real life bridge made out of glass would (if it wouldn't shatter) probably let a little light through, but smear it out completely so no shapes were seen. If nothing else, it would quickly be scratched.2) Will (clear) glass become transparent?From what I've seen with glass bridge previews shown by Meph, I'd say yes. This probably won't have a mechanical difference though, just visual.
On the Steam build; the preview of the Trade Depot & Wagons / Pack Animals was nice, but gave me the feeling of being too much detail that most players will overlook. For the sake of your own time and mental energy, has there been any instances where you decided that a certain feature (graphics or UI) would be nice, but ultimately not worth the effort?
Not for Steam Release, which is pretty much all that's going on for the "near future" (a year or so). Likely will see some general improvements (along with everyone else) in how they act as Villains is completed after Steam.
I think it was mentioned at some point that vampires would be getting a look-over/improvement in the near future? Are there any particular ideas being considered and would they be moddable?
I think it was mentioned at some point that vampires would be getting a look-over/improvement in the near future? Are there any particular ideas being considered and would they be moddable?”Near future” improvements for vampires could mean either the villains or the myth&magic arc, both after the Premium release. It depends on when you’ve heard it. Myth&magic has been promised some modding support, though no one knows the full extent of it yet (of course).
Quote from: Mr_Crabman7: Will the likes of clowns and other procedurally generated creatures have some of their generation logic exposed to the raws one day (eg, adding new body types/parts and abilities/interactions that can be had and the like)?7: That was eventually the plan, though it seems destined to be a mythgen/editor sort of thing.
:The "realism" slider concept demands that the sapient races are generated with ordinary world humans at the extreme mundane end and weird thingies at the other one, with "normal" fantasy races corresponding to the current one somewhere in between. Part of that would be to to generate their entities/traits/appearances with more variations at the entity level at the very least.
2. You've mentioned having dragons (and other megabeasts) be randomly generated not just in abilities, but also physical traits/appearance, but with constraints so they are still reasonably called "dragons"; do you have plans to set something up like this for the other, non-megabeast fantasy creatures as well, including dwarves and elves? That is, their appearance, physical traits and culture/default entities.
3. Speaking of entities, will entities be more varied (and random) in the future? It's slightly odd that all members of a species have the same cultural ethics and societal structure, except when they are subsumed into a civilization of another primary species.
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6. Will there eventually be more motivations for necromancy than obsession with one's own mortality? I'd imagine there are more reasons someone might seek to become a necromancer.I don't think Dr Frankenstein was obsessed with his own mortality, so I think the answer to 6 is a clear "Yes", with a much less clear "When".
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7. Do you mean it used to be the plan to expose them to the raws, but they won't be anymore? Would this be more restrictive than the original plan? I'm afraid I'm not clearly understanding this response/what is meant by "mythgen/editor".
My interpretation of that is that it was the plan to expose the raws, and that time has now been pushed to/through Myth&Magic. The current plan, as I interpret it, is to let Myth&Magic generate the raws, and those raws eventually should be possible to supply manually "from the side" into the editor side of mythgen. There's no guarantee the editor side will contain that functionality on the first Myth&Magic iteration, though.
Forgive me, but I'm not sure what you mean about the current plan. If Myth&Magic generates the raws, doesn't that mean those raws are an output, and not a thing that can be given as an input in an editor
My interpretation of that is that it was the plan to expose the raws, and that time has now been pushed to/through Myth&Magic. The current plan, as I interpret it, is to let Myth&Magic generate the raws, and those raws eventually should be possible to supply manually "from the side" into the editor side of mythgen. There's no guarantee the editor side will contain that functionality on the first Myth&Magic iteration, though.
Forgive me, but I'm not sure what you mean about the current plan. If Myth&Magic generates the raws, doesn't that mean those raws are an output, and not a thing that can be given as an input in an editor?
My original question was basically whether it would be possible to specify that one wants to let the "titan generator" use XYZ new modded body plans/parts, materials or interactions when it creates titans (and for other procgen creatures).
Fikilili asks "You've mentioned that you're thinking of implementing a dragon randomizer in the game, that would generate different types of dragons, and I wondered how it would work. [etc.]"
The short answer to your question is yes. The talk gives a little lengthier answer taking dragons as an example, but segues into one about Pokémon breeding and Ultima Online chicken fights after a while. I doubt the details have been worked out yet.
Are there any plans to revisit the issues with military equipment for the steam release, e.g. woodcutters and miners not being able to use their work tools as weapons? Any other changes planned regarding squads and military interactions?(fixing colour mistake, ignore)
The short answer to your question is yes. The talk gives a little lengthier answer taking dragons as an example, but segues into one about Pokémon breeding and Ultima Online chicken fights after a while. I doubt the details have been worked out yet.
Ah, that's good to hear.
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1. Will the map rewrite bring us liquid tiles other than water and magma? Rivers of blood would fit right into some more evil biomes, and a moat of honey would be interesting (exhausting siegers with the sheer viscosity of it).
2. Will the map rewrite also be where water no longer freezes instantly?
3. At some point will tiles other than water be affected by temperature? For example, dragonfire being able to actually melt stone walls, or constructions (and other terrain tiles) being able to catch fire and burn when appropriate in contact with magma or fire (ie no more wooden walls to block off magma).
4. Will shields eventually no longer be immune to dragonfire when blocking it? (and presumably other attacks that the material shouldn't be able to withstand).
5. Will werebeasts/other transformations always regenerate the body fully on transforming? There's something to be said thematically about wounds carrying over between forms (I presume this is a technical challenge, especially where body parts don't match up 1-1).
6a. What are your thoughts/ideas about magic related to fate/prophecy/destiny both in worldgen and in play? As in, its technical feasibility and how it could work.
6b. Same question as 6a, but for magic relating to time travel/manipulation? Like stopping time or slowing it down (which I guess is the same as speeding the user up sufficiently technically), or slowing down/freezing the time of specific objects or creatures, and traveling to the future and the past?
7. This might end up being related to the previous 2 questions funny enough, but are there any kinds of magic that you would have liked to have eventually, but which you consider just too impossible/impractical computationally to ever do?
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8:
I've got a long question here (well, more a short question, and a lot of explaining what I am asking about); how does the magic generation work/how does it apply constraints at different levels?
By this I mean, some magic may have certain costs, or certain effects it can have, and ways to be learned, sources it can be accessed from, methods by which it can be cast, ranges it can affect, whether it persists or requires constant maintenance, and all kinds of other limitation/ability/way it works.
But some aspects/constraints in a given magic system often can vary between individuals, or bloodlines, or species, or sources (gods, natural forces etc), and other aspects within those same groupings may remain the same, as constant rules and/or themes (and these aspects can naturally "nest" as you go deeper), and these constraints all help to give the magic system a unique "flavor", as well as cement it around some consistent themes.
For example:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So my question is, how is it planned to work for DF, roughly speaking? What's the system whereby constraints are imposed during worldgen (other than spheres), sometimes at different stages/steps, and how would it decide what scopes to place the constraints at? To be clear, I'm not talking about a myth&magic editor, or even modding or advanced configuration here (because clearly you could force certain constraints manually this way), but the vanilla generator, with configuration being limited to the basic worldgen screen and whatever simple options that has.
I ask because from what I've seen with the mythgen stuff talked about elsewhere, it feels like the only global constraints any world would have, would be magical spheres, and other than that, a lot of it looks just random for each interaction with a given species by a given god/primordial creative force, which seems like it would end up with a bit of a kitchen sink of magic in every single world, rather than allowing it to be possible all magic center among some limited themes/restrictions like most magic systems (themes other than spheres of the actual spells being cast that is); I am probably mistaken though, which is why I ask.
1. I'd expect the rewrite to allow for additional fluids, because that's something that affects the structures. Whether any additional liquids will be present at the first iteration is a different issue.
5. It's really a technical problem to transform wounds on and through polymorphing, and there are reasons to assume Toady wants to be able to carry wounds through for some transformations, while weres probably should continue to heal fully (at least in some worlds).
6a. The subject has been mentioned in talks. It's tricky, but feasible in principle at least to some extent. Scheduled events are possible, for instance, including allowing for influence to stop them from happening/assisting them into happening. Fate/destiny may be trickier, especially if it would require the universe to turn upside down to prevent the destined person from dying to allow for the destiny to be fulfilled, but it ought to be possible to assist some fates (destined to fall in battle -> greatly increased risk to die when engaged in battle; possibly generate a coup/mutiny against someone hiding from such a destiny), while hard to engineer others (Oidipus, for instance).
6b. Time travel beyond passive witnessing of past event would be a mess. Time speed manipulation is probably more of an issue of whether the results would be interesting and worth the effort required (all timers would somehow have to be set to a different rate, for instance).
8. My understanding is that mythgen would generate the constraints for the magic systems as part of the process such that each system gets a common set of underlying principles/rules. However, there may be more than one magic system in the same world, so you might have bloodline magic, trained magic, species magic, and "divine" magic in the same world but with different constraints for each set (and there's nothing to stop e.g. two bloodlines to appear within the same world with different constraints, or have multiple panthea with different sets of rules for "divine" magic).
6b. Time travel beyond passive witnessing of past event would be a mess. Time speed manipulation is probably more of an issue of whether the results would be interesting and worth the effort required (all timers would somehow have to be set to a different rate, for instance).
8. My understanding is that mythgen would generate the constraints for the magic systems as part of the process such that each system gets a common set of underlying principles/rules. However, there may be more than one magic system in the same world, so you might have bloodline magic, trained magic, species magic, and "divine" magic in the same world but with different constraints for each set (and there's nothing to stop e.g. two bloodlines to appear within the same world with different constraints, or have multiple panthea with different sets of rules for "divine" magic).
Travel to the future is trivial; it's the returning that causes a mess (I believe I've heard of an AD&D pact with an arch demon that had the wisher ask for the death of someone, which the demon fulfilled by time stopping the wisher until the "victim" had died...).
Wouldn't it be nice to have more than 4 season music and perhaps sounds for workshops(hammers/wood saw etc)? As far as I understand it will require very simple coding (play sound.mp3 on loop when tile X is within N distance from center of the screen) but would add to perceived 'polish' of the game.
You mentioned switching engines? Could you elaborate? Do you plan to switch to something like Unity eventually?
1. Are there plans to have the stone materials be tweaked to make them less inferior to say, bones? (in terms of sharpness and whatnot at least)I suggest you move this suggestion to the suggestion sub forum, adding the reasons you think things should be changed and how they should be changed. The questions in this thread are essentially left to sink into oblivion once they've been answered (i.e. Toady won't go back to this thread to look for things), while he does look a the suggestions, in particular when reworking related functionality.
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Exactly what is on the table in terms of siege improvements until the magic update?
1. What sort of content is on the table for the interlude between the steam release and the myth and magic big wait?Some candidates are listed at the top of this page (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html). I don't think it's been disclosed exactly what is making it in or not, if it's even been decided.
As far as I understand, the development process consists of bringing up all the possible candidates for a development phase and then cut the ones that won't make it either after some further thought (too much work to be worth it/requires too much work in unrelated areas/...), or during development (out of time/didn't work out/too many problems and not time to deal with them/...).Exactly what is on the table in terms of siege improvements until the magic update?1. What sort of content is on the table for the interlude between the steam release and the myth and magic big wait?Some candidates are listed at the top of this page (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html). I don't think it's been disclosed exactly what is making it in or not, if it's even been decided.
Currently in adventure mode, in large towns it's not uncommon to find characters murdered in the streets from random fights (especially if there are a lot of goblins). Will these events be considered crimes when the villains release is completed, and will it be possible for adventurers to "get to the bottom of it"?
What do you think of a "Minecraft resource pack"-like solution of having a menu where the player can define the load order of mods themselves, such that if a mod tries to create the same object as another mod, whatever mod is on the top of the load order would override the first version of the object? The same could go for mods trying to overwrite the same vanilla object (assuming merging objects can't be done).
Children will help to do simple tasks, like hauling? Does this mean they'll have a limited labour menu? Now that you've taken a look at child labour, does that mean that they'll be able to, for instance, attend educational courses at guildhalls, or something, as well?
With the myth/magic update, is there anything planned regarding evolution or corruption of different races and species (sentient and non-sentient)? This could include either initial mythical origins, "natural" evolution and mutations, hybrid species, or unnatural/magical forces and experiments.
Quote from: ror6axWouldn't it be nice to have more than 4 season music and perhaps sounds for workshops(hammers/wood saw etc)? As far as I understand it will require very simple coding (play sound.mp3 on loop when tile X is within N distance from center of the screen) but would add to perceived 'polish' of the game.
Same question as above, but animated textures(tree leaves/grass/snow). Seems easy, would look great, mostly a job for artists - what gives?
You mentioned switching engines? Could you elaborate? Do you plan to switch to something like Unity eventually?Quote from: Mr_CrabmanOn the topic of audio though, for the longterm, what do you think in terms of expansion of music and sound effects and ambience? Would you aim towards eventually having something with as much extensive variety as SoundSense for example?
The Premium graphics currently show tiles from Z-levels below the current one (if no obstacles occlude them of course).
1) Will the Classic graphics also do this?
2) Will (clear) glass become transparent?
On the Steam build; the preview of the Trade Depot & Wagons / Pack Animals was nice, but gave me the feeling of being too much detail that most players will overlook. For the sake of your own time and mental energy, has there been any instances where you decided that a certain feature (graphics or UI) would be nice, but ultimately not worth the effort?
I think it was mentioned at some point that vampires would be getting a look-over/improvement in the near future? Are there any particular ideas being considered and would they be moddable?
1. Can we expect to see new spheres for the myth and magic release?
2. You've mentioned having dragons (and other megabeasts) be randomly generated not just in abilities, but also physical traits/appearance, but with constraints so they are still reasonably called "dragons"; do you have plans to set something up like this for the other, non-megabeast fantasy creatures as well, including dwarves and elves? That is, their appearance, physical traits and culture/default entities.
3. Speaking of entities, will entities be more varied (and random) in the future? It's slightly odd that all members of a species have the same cultural ethics and societal structure, except when they are subsumed into a civilization of another primary species.
4. At some point, will siegers/other creatures no longer have omniscience about which way to go into a fortress and actually potentially even wander into dead ends if someone say, builds a maze?
5. Will hydras eventually regrow destroyed/severed heads?
6. Will there eventually be more motivations for necromancy than obsession with one's own mortality? I'd imagine there are more reasons someone might seek to become a necromancer.
7. Do you mean it used to be the plan to expose [monster generation logic] to the raws, but they won't be anymore? Would this be more restrictive than the original plan? I'm afraid I'm not clearly understanding this response/what is meant by "mythgen/editor".
Are there any plans to revisit the issues with military equipment for the steam release, e.g. woodcutters and miners not being able to use their work tools as weapons? Any other changes planned regarding squads and military interactions?
1. Will the map rewrite bring us liquid tiles other than water and magma? Rivers of blood would fit right into some more evil biomes, and a moat of honey would be interesting (exhausting siegers with the sheer viscosity of it).
2. Will the map rewrite also be where water no longer freezes instantly?
3. At some point will tiles other than water be affected by temperature? For example, dragonfire being able to actually melt stone walls, or constructions (and other terrain tiles) being able to catch fire and burn when appropriate in contact with magma or fire (ie no more wooden walls to block off magma).
4. Will shields eventually no longer be immune to dragonfire when blocking it? (and presumably other attacks that the material shouldn't be able to withstand).
5. Will werebeasts/other transformations always regenerate the body fully on transforming? There's something to be said thematically about wounds carrying over between forms (I presume this is a technical challenge, especially where body parts don't match up 1-1).
6a. What are your thoughts/ideas about magic related to fate/prophecy/destiny both in worldgen and in play? As in, its technical feasibility and how it could work.
6b. Same question as 6a, but for magic relating to time travel/manipulation? Like stopping time or slowing it down (which I guess is the same as speeding the user up sufficiently technically), or slowing down/freezing the time of specific objects or creatures, and traveling to the future and the past?
7. This might end up being related to the previous 2 questions funny enough, but are there any kinds of magic that you would have liked to have eventually, but which you consider just too impossible/impractical computationally to ever do?
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8:
I've got a long question here (well, more a short question, and a lot of explaining what I am asking about); how does the magic generation work/how does it apply constraints at different levels?
By this I mean, some magic may have certain costs, or certain effects it can have, and ways to be learned, sources it can be accessed from, methods by which it can be cast, ranges it can affect, whether it persists or requires constant maintenance, and all kinds of other limitation/ability/way it works.
But some aspects/constraints in a given magic system often can vary between individuals, or bloodlines, or species, or sources (gods, natural forces etc), and other aspects within those same groupings may remain the same, as constant rules and/or themes (and these aspects can naturally "nest" as you go deeper), and these constraints all help to give the magic system a unique "flavor", as well as cement it around some consistent themes.
So my question is, how is it planned to work for DF, roughly speaking? What's the system whereby constraints are imposed during worldgen (other than spheres), sometimes at different stages/steps, and how would it decide what scopes to place the constraints at? To be clear, I'm not talking about a myth&magic editor, or even modding or advanced configuration here (because clearly you could force certain constraints manually this way), but the vanilla generator, with configuration being limited to the basic worldgen screen and whatever simple options that has.
I ask because from what I've seen with the mythgen stuff talked about elsewhere, it feels like the only global constraints any world would have, would be magical spheres, and other than that, a lot of it looks just random for each interaction with a given species by a given god/primordial creative force, which seems like it would end up with a bit of a kitchen sink of magic in every single world, rather than allowing it to be possible all magic center among some limited themes/restrictions like most magic systems (themes other than spheres of the actual spells being cast that is); I am probably mistaken though, which is why I ask.
Do you worry that some things that are currently regarded as spoilers/secrets may be spoiled for new players by the myth generator/viewer?
1. Are there plans to have the stone materials be tweaked to make them less inferior to say, bones? (in terms of sharpness and whatnot at least)
2. will the guildhall zone option in adventure mode allow for training idle followers within the designated zone? and if so could those followers form a guild?
3. How do Adventurer camps interact with the world? are they recognized as actual settlements that people migrate to and such, or are they nonexistent entities in the eyes of the factions of the world?
wolf men armor fits dwarves and weighs a bit less, cougar/hyenna man sized armor fits dwarves and humans alike and weighs a bit more. wolf men have adult size 55k, dwarves 60k and cougar/hyenna men 65k. in a previous question thread you wrote the rule seems to be like 6/7, creature size 7/8.my question
how does armour size scaling function exactly? what's the exact min and max equip size for dorfs, as the wiki states 52.500 (emu men armor) still should be wearable, but actually isn't and has the prefix "small" once you craft it. when you craft armor in fort mode which defaults to dwarven size, what actual size is the armour? exactly 60.000 for adults? do you get negative combat rolls or something like that for wearing armour that's from another creature but lacks the prefix 'small' or 'large', meaning you can equip it normally? on the other hand apart from the weight itself, are there maybe other beneficial factors, like hyena man armour beeing slightly larger? the stats like coverage are still the same tho.
Are you and ThreeToe continuing the Premium fortress you've been showing in the Steam Community Updates?
If so, how far along is it?
Quote from: Urist McSadistExactly what is on the table in terms of siege improvements until the magic update?Quote from: Beag1. What sort of content is on the table for the interlude between the steam release and the myth and magic big wait?
2. What is one interesting graphical challenge you or your team has encountered recently in preparing the steam release of dwarf fortress?
1. Quite a few functions/screens in the Premium release have had some pretty significant changes, like with "zone bedrooms/other rooms", and also the announced plans to consolidate all the "look" functions into 1 menu, and being able to send items to the trade depo from the items themselves; what are some other screens and functions you expect to also have significant improvements like that? As opposed to say, workshops, which do have some improvements (like seeing what is located there at the same time as the jobs, searching the list of job types, and mouse controls, and obviously all the polish/readability), but otherwise look relatively similar to before in functionality.
2. Is it planned for workshop jobs/the searchable list of jobs to have icons representing the item type to be made/job to be completed beside them? I saw it's absent from the news screenshots, but I assume this could be chalked up to it just not being implemented yet, but just wanted to be sure.
A question for next month !
Do you feel concerned/worried by the collapse in forum's activity ? (activity divided by 3 - 6 in 7 years depending on what you are looking at)
At the same time donations have never been this high but I wonder if this means that Dwarf fortress isn't a game everybody loves but nobody plays anymore. Or is it because forum aren't used anymore replaced by - for instance- Reddit ?
Thanks Toady !
A question for next month !
Do you feel concerned/worried by the collapse in forum's activity ? (activity divided by 3 - 6 in 7 years depending on what you are looking at)
At the same time donations have never been this high but I wonder if this means that Dwarf fortress isn't a game everybody loves but nobody plays anymore. Or is it because forum aren't used anymore replaced by - for instance- Reddit ?
Are there any plans regarding simple terraforming, i.e. filling up single tiles with dirt or being able to rebuild ramps? If so, do you have an idea where it fits in the timeline?There are plans to make sand and clay deposits run out, and thoughts about moving soil for agriculture. Landscaping would be a fairly natural extension of that (basically, each tile would probably consist of X/Y of a substance, so you could remove it over time, and and that logic ought to allow for removal to be replaced by refilling [with the added complication that would result from mixed substances, possibly a new substance in the form of "mixed soil, or something]).
Quote from: leastannoyingmanWith the myth/magic update, is there anything planned regarding evolution or corruption of different races and species (sentient and non-sentient)? This could include either initial mythical origins, "natural" evolution and mutations, hybrid species, or unnatural/magical forces and experiments.
voliol: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8278301#msg8278301
Just a note on your later custom groupings post ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8278407#msg8278407 ) - since this already happens with deities (when they cover more than one sphere), I imagine this'll all come for free from the editor/param side.
I don't see the tying of magic to properties as being insane, at least not reasonably static ones.
I doubt highly variable aspects would be included, but regardless, I'd be wary of suggesting that particular version unless you fancy being the target of a witch hunt organized by the political correctness mafia (whose ability to detect any trace of incorrect discrimination is honed to perfection).I don't see the tying of magic to properties as being insane, at least not reasonably static ones.
Oh, all the game's features are insane to me anyway.
The stuff about the myth generator and myth editor makes sense, thanks. Let's hope it'll have solid footing that could let you get really weird with it - like making magic powers depend on beard length, or something.
Aside from being technically ambitious task, have you considered what gameplay purpose will Myth and Magic serve? As a player, would it make a considerable difference for me to play a procgen race with procgen magic system as opposed to playing the hardcoded one?If that's a question to Toady you should mark it in lime green so he finds it when going through the questions at the beginning of the next month (separating questions from chaff like this post).
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
1. Multi tile vehicles are off the table. Wagons are, technically, weird "animals" in the game, and that's something Toady want to get rid of.
1. Even if multistory siege weapons are off the table, what sort of siege machines might be available, and how moddable will that whole system be? Will it be possible to create entirely custom siege weapons/ammunition for example? Would that extend to wagons?
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
3. Some mods come with the actual game's .exe for ease of installation, effectively functioning as an "independent" game you can install like the normal one, how would mods like that function on the steam workshop if at all?
4. Will container items like backpacks and quivers become moddable before or after the Big Wait?
Regarding development, is there an order of things planned before the Big Waittm? Can we expect adventure mode intrigues to be expanded and finished before the Big Waittm?Current plan (subject to change) is:
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
IIRC, it's been said that the Steam version will come with an ASCII option.
Just wondering if you've given any thought to what a tutorial might look like for Steam. Any notes or simply 'thinking out loud' ideas?There definitely have been thoughts, as Toady has mentioned it several times, and given how Toady and Threetoe seem to operate, there are probably lots of notes with more or less thought out ideas, and possibly even some side projects. Whether they're ready to share any of those initial thoughts is a different issue (weighing cost/benefit of discussions [takes time, but may provide useful suggestions], as well as some people treating lists of candidates as promises [at least when it comes to their favorite items]).
Do you have any way to protect the steam version of dwarf fortress from piracy? I assume that virtually all the game files from the normal, ascii version, stay on the steam version, but with new ui and tileset files; creative modders could try to integrate the stuff from steam version into the ascii version for free using someone else's copy of the game; does the steam version require steam to play, or you can just copy the files from your steam copy to share with other people, like with older games released on steam, where steam is just the "bootloader"?The tileset and music are the only locked items. Everything else is the same as the free version. Just a matter of flagging tilesets which use assets from premium and either blocking them or moderating forums like this one to prevent them being shared for free.
17. Which screens/interfaces/functionality still remain to be completed for Fortress mode in the Premium update?
13. What about creatures fighting differently depending on the size and position of their opponent (kind of related to the above question I guess)? By this I mean something like a bronze colossus happily punching, wrestling and headbutting other massive beasts, but preferring to stomp on or kick puny dwarves, unless the dwarves are on a ledge or something and therefore easier to reach with the arms.
- Ability to jump up on and ride opponents if they are large enough (can happen to you too of course)
- Not being able to hit a giant in the head, hitting a dragon in the head as a reaction when it attempts to bite
It can also be noted that multiple threads don't speed things up if the calculations are bound by the rate at which data can be brought in from memory, and I believe there are indications DF is memory bound rather than CPU bound.
As far as VRAM goes, DF probably only uses graphics hardware for the obvious purpose of rendering. So the only data needed in VRAM is the sprites and some buffers telling where to draw them, what color and blending mode. It’s possible to offload game logic processes onto graphics hardware, but that requires even more deep rewrites than I mentioned above. Even then, getting the data on and off of VRAM is a hassle. There’d usually be no reason to put game logic data in VRAM unless you were processing it there.
Blind people probably don’t have much of an interest in fancy tiles, so I imagine they will opt out and continue playing in ascii mode. It has me wondering though, do you know if they used TEXT/console mode or the standard 2D printing mode? The latter is technically tile-based already so a program capable of reading it should be expandable to include fancier tiles (though I imagine the layering would complicate things), while TEXT mode might be endangered if DF doesn’t make it natively to Linux and Mac post-Premium.
I just remembered there was a blind DF player on the forum a couple of years back. How will the change to tiles for the character set affect the ability to translate the display into sound? Has any thought gone into that, and, if so, has any support been thought of?
The main thing it does to me is to underscore what a huge amount of work it would be to multithread DF. Each of those subsystems would have to be significantly revised.
Which by the way would slow the whole thing down on single processor systems.
Using the GPU is even harder because you have to translate the code to shader language and figure out how to get good throughout, something the CPU kind of takes care of for you. Oh, and then you get bugs that only affect some graphics cards.
When you’re done, it’s just the one system that’s now optimized…so one out of about a dozen listed in that article.
Quote[...]Will language be expanded on like music and such. Being randomly generated and having to be taught/learned? It be interesting to see if one language rises to the top of the heap to become that worlds version of 'common' Or if the myth/history generate makes a single world language that was created by a god for the people to use. Also maybe species with langagues that can't be spoken or understood by others do some some biological reasion.[...]Yeah. I'm not sure *when*, but I'm looking forward to it and it's an earlier non-DF interest of mine.
We're hoping to do a lot with language at some point, but it's always ended up being a lower priority compared to other features. The notes are pretty extensive at this point, but that's meaningless if we don't work on it.
QuoteHave you seen the "Dwaven Language Codifier" here ? And if yes, what are your thoughts about it ?Yeah, I've seen it! I think it's a cool project.
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173289.0)
Since some of the analysis applies to all the languages (since they are underspecified but have a lot of similar characteristics), it's important to note that we're going to end up having to blow a lot of stuff up with procgen, if we can get it to work. Though I've been wanting to do that for years and haven't had time. And as with the myth stuff vs. the creature types etc., I really don't know precisely what 'default' is going to mean, or what sorts of vanilla language notions will remain intact. Presumably, with the editor examples etc., there might even be a more and more fixed version of things.
Have you considered enabling autosave and backups by default on the Steam version?
and also because they'd suck up the hard-drive space, which isn't what you want the default settings to doAn option to automatically delete old backups would come in handy then.
2. How would you handle the possibility/risk of making Steam achievements that later become obsolete or nonsensical/impossible to achieve due to design/mechanical changes in updates?
4. Why are there only mammal and reptile werebeasts? Was this a design decision, or just about not having time or interest to manually hardcode loads of bird and insect werebeasts and instead waiting for them to be generatable?
5. How do you manage doing bugfix updates/patches for current versions, while still working on large changes that are not ready to be released to the public (that is, getting the bugfixes/patches in both the release, and in the unreleased version)? I only ask because I wonder how that's possible to practically manage without using a version control system or branches (assuming that hasn't changed).
6. Related to the last thing, how do you keep track of what changes you have made to the codebase and to features?
Given that adventurers are asexual, shouldn’t unicorns be friendly towards them?
Given that adventurers are asexual, shouldn’t unicorns be friendly towards them?
Please link to bugs on the tracker. Nothing more annoying than saying "Hey, Toady, when are you going to fix that bug? You know, the one with elves!" As though he'll have any idea what you're talking about.
Is it intentional that elven visitors almost exclusively are members of performance troupes (or villains)? Is it something in elven culture that causes its members to join troupes rather than strike out on their own (and thus sometimes be available for recruitment, as performance troupe recruitment is bugged)?
Will we ever be able to destroy artifacts? This could be useful for some more world events eg destroying a holy relic will cause the adventurer or fortress to be excommunicated, destroying a demon slab could banish them or make the goblins turn on their ruler, a slab with life and death being broken could cause those who read from it to die from a curse/lose their undead
This actually came up in smallhands recently over in community fort. For story reasons I was trying to dispose of a slab. I ended up having to dig a room and drop the room into magma to throw the slab into it and even then its not gone, only "hidden" until reclaim/adventure mode
Will we ever be able to destroy artifacts? This could be useful for some more world events eg destroying a holy relic will cause the adventurer or fortress to be excommunicated, destroying a demon slab could banish them or make the goblins turn on their ruler, a slab with life and death being broken could cause those who read from it to die from a curse/lose their undeadConsidering how influential the Lord of the Rings is to the fantasy genre in general, and to a game called Dwarf Fortress especially, I have a hard time seeing its premise would not be reproducible in some future version of the game. Also, many non-mood artifacts found in the game (holy relics, named weapons, original books) are destructible already.
Will we ever be able to destroy artifacts? This could be useful for some more world events eg destroying a holy relic will cause the adventurer or fortress to be excommunicated, destroying a demon slab could banish them or make the goblins turn on their ruler, a slab with life and death being broken could cause those who read from it to die from a curse/lose their undeadI thought both atom smashing and SMR annihilation destroyed artifacts?
:
I thought both atom smashing and SMR annihilation destroyed artifacts?
Will we ever be able to destroy artifacts? This could be useful for some more world events eg destroying a holy relic will cause the adventurer or fortress to be excommunicated, destroying a demon slab could banish them or make the goblins turn on their ruler, a slab with life and death being broken could cause those who read from it to die from a curse/lose their undeadI thought both atom smashing and SMR annihilation destroyed artifacts?
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As others have mentioned, magic means to destroy magic items would make sense post Myth & Magic.
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG4:2:HORN:2]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG5:2:HEART:2:ARG4:2:EYE:2:ARG3:2:HORN:2:ARG2:2:ARG1:2]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:TUSK:IVORY:100]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE:ARG5:4:ARG1:1]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG4:2:HORN:2:ARG4]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR:NORMAL]]
Do you feel concerned/worried by the collapse in forum's activity ? (activity divided by 3 - 6 in 7 years depending on what you are looking at)
Is it true that the leftwards and rightwards triangle will be used as delimiters for magical items?
Are there any plans regarding simple terraforming, i.e. filling up single tiles with dirt or being able to rebuild ramps? If so, do you have an idea where it fits in the timeline?
Are the changes for steam release fully compatible with macros? Are there any future plans for the macro feature or is it considered finished?
Aside from being technically ambitious task, have you considered what gameplay purpose will Myth and Magic serve? As a player, would it make a considerable difference for me to play a procgen race with procgen magic system as opposed to playing the hardcoded one?
1. Even if multistory siege weapons are off the table, what sort of siege machines might be available, and how moddable will that whole system be? Will it be possible to create entirely custom siege weapons/ammunition for example? Would that extend to wagons?
2. Will the steam version of the game have an option to play the game in ascii, or will it be required to use the graphics pack?
3. Some mods come with the actual game's .exe for ease of installation, effectively functioning as an "independent" game you can install like the default one, how would mods like that function on the steam workshop if at all?
4. Will container items like backpacks and quivers become moddable before or after the Big Wait?
5. Will stuff like armor and weapons eventually become as granular as instruments? Maybe not in the near future, but at some point?
6. I believe it was discussed before that "normal" DF wouldn't feature technology past a certain level, but what sort of anachronisms do you think might be added as potential tools for NPCs to discover/develop?
7. What traits influence the odds of an NPC becoming an "adventurer" ie warrior/mercenary/monster slayer in worldgen? Violence and excitement-seeking maybe, but is there anything else?
Regarding development, is there an order of things planned before the Big Waittm? Can we expect adventure mode intrigues to be expanded and finished before the Big Waittm?
Just wondering if you've given any thought to what a tutorial might look like for Steam. Any notes or simply 'thinking out loud' ideas?
Do you have any way to protect the steam version of dwarf fortress from piracy? I assume that virtually all the game files from the normal, ascii version, stay on the steam version, but with new ui and tileset files; creative modders could try to integrate the stuff from steam version into the ascii version for free using someone else's copy of the game; does the steam version require steam to play, or you can just copy the files from your steam copy to share with other people, like with older games released on steam, where steam is just the "bootloader"?
Toady, any plans for sorting options in the new Trade Screen? Especially sorting by item value could be very useful.
1. Will the map rewrite make it possible for tiles to stop being considered "on the surface/outdoors" forever if exposed once to the sky?
2. Will it be possible to engrave each side of a wall separately?
3. There are plans for siegers (presumably ones armed with mining tools) to be able to dig through tiles, but will some strong and/or big creatures/monsters be able to dig through tiles and smash through constructions without the use of tools?
4. What sort of limits if any (other than the obvious "no digging through adamantine/slade"), do you imagine instituting for digging siegers (or monsters) for balance purposes?
5. Different places in the real world have different durations of seasons (and in the southern hemisphere they are in reverse order), and AFAIK some places don't experience the familiar 4 seasons but instead have a different set, is this something that is planned eventually? Similar question goes for durations of day and night depending on location.
6. Speaking of seasons (and day/night cycles), does the "list of things to have in the game one day" include more bizarre/random/high magic worlds taking into account different astronomy (amount of suns etc), and maybe even some "magic cycles" that happen alongside (or sometimes replace) natural cycles like seasons and day/night, with their own effects?
7. You've said something about playing as procgen races in fort mode even in the first myth&magic update, provided they tick off a certain number of fort mode necessities (including digging), as some features aren't where they need to be yet (such as above-ground constructions for non-digging civilizations). Other than the digging, are there any other requirements you can think of off the top of your head, or is it pretty much just digging?
8. Right now creatures like hydras and ettins have 1 mind for all heads, and I think you've said you plan to support 1 mind per head, but would that apply to all kinds of multi-headed creature, or would some species and/or creatures have it one way and others the other way?
9a. Are "animated statues and figurines" planned? That is, magic that turns an arbitrary statue/figurine into a bronze-colossus-like creature made of "whatever the statue/figurine was made of", with the anatomy/body shape of the thing the statue is depicting, at the appropriate size of the statue/figurines representation of that thing. The dev notes mention automatons, but I'm not sure if that's quite the same thing (magic automatons are usually custom built to be automatons and aren't fully solid).
9b. A similar question goes for art/engravings (like an engraving of a troll just coming off of the wall, leaving the wall bare).
10. Will bronze colossi ever turn into statues of themselves upon death instead of the statue having a random subject, or is there some other plan in mind for them?
11. How do you think mind reading and/or short-term clairvoyance by reading intentions would work (assuming it's planned)? Wondering particularly about your thoughts on NPC's trying to read the mind/intentions of a player's adventurer.
12. Is it planned for creatures to be able to be eaten or swallowed whole by much larger ones? Like a dwarf being eaten by a dragon or other large enough beast, and maybe being rescuable if you get them out before they suffocate or get digested.
13. What about creatures fighting differently depending on the size and position of their opponent (kind of related to the above question I guess)? By this I mean something like a bronze colossus happily punching, wrestling and headbutting other massive beasts, but preferring to stomp on or kick puny dwarves, unless the dwarves are on a ledge or something and therefore easier to reach with the arms.
14. Regarding creature sizes, will it always be the case that their size is modeled only with volume? Apart from when they're real life creatures or just assumed to be of human proportions, it's often ambiguous whether something is meant to be tall and skinny, or wide and bulky, or really long.
15. The images shown for Steam with the new trade depo seem to imply that wagons no longer overlap with the depo, how does that work now? Will more space be necessary to have a functioning trade depo?
16. Many screens will now apparently no longer pause the game when brought up; will it be possible to set in a menu to pause automatically when opening these?
17. Which screens/interfaces/functionality still remain to be completed for Fortress mode in the Premium update?
18. If the Steam release does well enough to accommodate it, would you consider hiring someone more experienced with optimization to help with that during the map rewrite? Or maybe bringing on volunteers (under NDA of course).
19. With the big map rewrite coming up, is threading or even GPU acceleration (like OpenCL, or whatever its successor is) that something you might try to implement in there, or at least architect the new code with potential for it in mind (so if you decide in the future that it's necessary, it wouldn't require another big rewrite)? Especially if you have help from someone more knowledgeable about threading (and GPU acceleration). In particular, I'm asking about pathfinding, temperatures, and liquid flow, as while I may be mistaken, "map rewrite" sounds like it involves rewriting those to an extent, and they happen to be some of the biggest FPS users.
I just remembered there was a blind DF player on the forum a couple of years back. How will the change to tiles for the character set affect the ability to translate the display into sound? Has any thought gone into that, and, if so, has any support been thought of?
I've been looking through the disassembly of a function that returns a plant at an x, y, z coordinate. (Looks like it's called by tree chopping and rendering code, among others.)
It looks like it checks if ((x / 48) * 48) < 0 || ((x / 48) * 48) >= map_size_in_x_tiles. (It might also be (x - x%48) in your code.)
This check will succeed for values of x as low as -47. Same for the y check. The checks should probably be using the regular x and y coordinates.
There's a check inside a loop that will reject any index that would be outside of the array of a tree struct, though an incorrect result (instead of NULL) could be returned if the value ((tree_dim_x / 2) - plant_x%48) + x%48) is somehow >= 0 and < tree_dim_x for a tree. This is all dependent on a negative value somehow being passed to the function, of course.
Do you have any plans to do something like procedurally generated languages/conlangs?
If so, what extent would this be going to/how far indepth would this be? Like, evolving/splitting over time between cultures, partial merging via loanwords or 2 cultures being in close proximity all the time, creatures not understanding some languages but "translators" or well-traveled ones being multi-lingual?
And for the contents of the languages themselves, would generating them involve low level details to make them seem natural/not generated, like this?:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just wondering how far this would go (if this stuff isn't planned already I'll definitely post a suggestion for it, along with some links to good sources people use for making conlangs).
You've mentioned plans for the siege rework before the big wait including ways for invaders to get through walls, like digging or breaking them down. Are there similar plans to make monsters like Giants or FBs have similar capability?
1. Might be a Dumb question, but are pebbles only able to be formed from the specific materials listed in the stone layers or can pebbles be of any material so long as its stone? (I.E native copper, cinnabar, pyrite)
2. Regarding custom made companions:
A. Are companions created from the starting screen considered a separate faction or something? Im wondering because they're loyal to you specifically and will even turn on other companions if you attack them.
B. Also what do the "Respects you" "Highly Loyal" and "Loves You" traits do to your companions and how they act?
3. How wide is the scope of pets that can be spawned by divination dice? Because I've had pets spawn that weren't even Tameable creatures. Is it any creatures with the Large creature tag? Could i theoretically roll until i get a Night Creature or Angel as a pet?
Have you considered enabling autosave and backups by default on the Steam version?
Relevant thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/o4ob7q/ive_done_it_again_i_forgot_to_turn_autosaves_on/
1. For various syndrome tokens, I see in a lot of mods people create, that arguments/tags like `ABRUPT` and `PEAK`, and even `SIZE_DILUTES` are used, even in places where it doesn't appear to make intuitive sense, like `CE_ADD_TAG` for example, since it doesn't seem possible for the intensity of something like that to vary over time (and therefore to have a "peak", or to start "abruptly", or be "diluted by size").
Would these actually work in these cases (and if so, what do they do?), or is it just a matter of them being ignored by the token parser? Another way of asking I guess, is which of these "special" creature effect syndrome tokens actually make use of `ABRUPT`, `PEAK`, and `SIZE_DILUTES` (and for that matter, `SEV`)?: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Syndrome#Special_Effects
2. How would you handle the possibility/risk of making Steam achievements that later become obsolete or nonsensical/impossible to achieve due to design/mechanical changes in updates?
3. Do you think that, if the Bay12 forums become very saturated with new players, it may become a problem to continue FotF as you do now, and to handle reading the Suggestions forum? If so, what solutions would you have in mind? (for example, for suggestions might you make more subforums for different types of suggestion?)
4. Why are there only mammal and reptile werebeasts? Was this a design decision, or just about not having time or interest to manually hardcode loads of bird and insect werebeasts and instead waiting for them to be generatable?
5. How do you manage doing bugfix updates/patches for current versions, while still working on large changes that are not ready to be released to the public (that is, getting the bugfixes/patches in both the release, and in the unreleased version)? I only ask because I wonder how that's possible to practically manage without using a version control system or branches (assuming that hasn't changed).
6. Related to the last thing, how do you keep track of what changes you have made to the codebase and to features?
7. What happens when the raw parser encounters a "creature level" token (like `BIOME` or `MEGABEAST`) inside a `CASTE` or `SELECT_CASTE`? Does it return back to parsing at the creature level and "cancel" the parsing of that caste? Or does it just ignore that token and keep moving on like it wasn't there? Or does it parse that token at the creature level and then immediately return back to the original caste?
What is it that happens? I don't seem to be seeing any errorlogs or crashes when I test this, so I'm guessing it has some kind of "graceful" solution other than crashing, but I'd like to know what it is, as I'm working with someone else on a language server for raw files (error underlining, autocomplete etc etc), and need to know what to do when these tokens when they are entered (like if they should be marked with a code warning for instance).
Given that adventurers are asexual, shouldn’t unicorns be friendly towards them?
Is it intentional that elven visitors almost exclusively are members of performance troupes (or villains)? Is it something in elven culture that causes its members to join troupes rather than strike out on their own (and thus sometimes be available for recruitment, as performance troupe recruitment is bugged)?
Edit: In response to Shonai_Dweller's post below: The bug report is https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=11001, although the actual question is about why elves are almost exclusive to performance troupes. The fact that they're bugged was added as context for why I even care. I expect bugs to be fixed when they get fixed, not when Toady gets bugged about them.
Will we ever be able to destroy artifacts? This could be useful for some more world events eg destroying a holy relic will cause the adventurer or fortress to be excommunicated, destroying a demon slab could banish them or make the goblins turn on their ruler, a slab with life and death being broken could cause those who read from it to die from a curse/lose their undead
This actually came up in smallhands recently over in community fort. For story reasons I was trying to dispose of a slab. I ended up having to dig a room and drop the room into magma to throw the slab into it and even then its not gone, only "hidden" until reclaim/adventure mode
How are you and Zach holding up to the heatwave? I hope you and all the pets are ok.
What exactly is a WORSHIP_HF token? i noticed it appear in speech raws dialogue for temples when describing the inhouse patron god of a temple when being accepted into it (though i've never actually played a temple induction myself, usually there's nobody around to talk to, to take a quest from) and a few select interesting nuggets about it being connected to demon-leaders/diplomats/trade-liason foolery when used for position-code mainly based on past versions and a little bit of present version tinkering.
I mean what i *think* i've got from my results so far is that its meant to be any sort of dedicated role for gods/pretenders, but its hard to tell because only the vaguest fringes of it is editable from entity_default on a dark-fortress which has the criteria of a living physical "pretender".
1. How do `APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION` args work? Like, can they be of any type? (I ask because the vanilla raws only seem to use integers, and I've not seen any mods bucking this trend).
2. How many args can be given/used in `APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION`? `BODY_DETAIL_PLANS` only take a maximum of 5 it seems, so I was wondering if these also have a hardcoded limit (I can tell it's at least 6, but might be more).
3. Also, about the special `|` character being used to separate arguments in `APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION` so that one `!ARG` can represent multiple arguments, can there be more than 2 arguments in this way, and if so, is there a maximum or is it arbitrary? Such as `5|0|8`?
4. How does `CTAG` and it's conditional behavior on a single token interact with the above `|` behavior? Can it only work if `!ARG1` is not actually multiple arguments, or would it just pick the first one out of the bunch?
5. About `BODY_DETAIL_PLAN` objects and giving "coverage" for some relations, I've also seen coverages given for positions, and sometimes I see coverages given and other times I don't (even for relations like `BELOW`); which relations/positions actually require a coverage value, and do any take it optionally? What's the situation there with layer coverages?
6. In the `BODY_DETAIL_PLAN` token `BP_LAYERS`, apparently you can only define 5 "ARG" tokens (ie up to `ARG5`), but you can also mix in specific tissues like so:Code: [Select][BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG4:2:HORN:2]
My question is, can you add more than 5 tissues using `BP_LAYERS`, if in addition to the `ARG1`-`ARG5` tissues, you also add in other specific tissues? Or is it hardcoded to 5 tissues maximum even then? Like, would something like this be possible?:Code: [Select][BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG5:2:HEART:2:ARG4:2:EYE:2:ARG3:2:HORN:2:ARG2:2:ARG1:2]
7. About the "thickness" of each tissue (the number given after each tissue argument); is this relative or absolute, and how high can it go? I get the impression from the numbers that it's a percentage (ie a percentage of how much that tissue takes up of that body part), but I'm unsure, because it doesn't always add up to 100:Code: [Select][BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:TUSK:IVORY:100]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE:ARG5:4:ARG1:1]
8. Can you define the same tissue more than one time in a single `BP_LAYERS`? Like this:Code: [Select][BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HORN:ARG4:2:HORN:2:ARG4]
9. In the `TISSUE_LAYER` token in some creature tokens, you see the likes of:Code: [Select][TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR:NORMAL]]
What is the "NORMAL"? Usually in that place there's a position or relation token, but I have no idea what to make of this one/what it means.
1. How do `APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION` args work? Like, can they be of any type? (I ask because the vanilla raws only seem to use integers, and I've not seen any mods bucking this trend).
Does the current version of the game really need IDLERS up front in bold fooling new players into thinking this is somehow a bad thing? Giving dwarves time off to enjoy themselves is an increasingly important part of Fortress life and I've seen new players post in panic that whatever they do the fortress is full of "Idlers".
It's a useful indicator for some people playing in very specific ways but seems a bit too frightening for what it's actually showing (a perfectly healthy fortress).
:Quote from: PatrikLundellIs it intentional that elven visitors almost exclusively are members of performance troupes (or villains)? Is it something in elven culture that causes its members to join troupes rather than strike out on their own (and thus sometimes be available for recruitment, as performance troupe recruitment is bugged)?
Edit: In response to Shonai_Dweller's post below: The bug report is https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=11001, although the actual question is about why elves are almost exclusive to performance troupes. The fact that they're bugged was added as context for why I even care. I expect bugs to be fixed when they get fixed, not when Toady gets bugged about them.
Elves have WANDERER and SCOUT, where dwarves/humans have WANDER, BEAST_HUNTER, SCOUT, and MERCENARY. That impacts the overall frequencies - the artists get selected from the same pool as heroes/snatchers/merchants/etc. when it is looking for those sorts of people.
:
I'm having trouble understanding the answer...
Does this mean that the MERCENARY tag opens up another pool for military mercenaries/traveling artists/artists seeking employment (as individuals rather than troupes)/(potentially as traveling/job seeking scientists)?
Otherwise I don't see how the artists that do travel all end up in troupes rather than as individuals.
1. Will the medical update implement simple prosthetics like peg legs or something like Götz von Berlichingen's iron hand?
2. What are the variables needed to implement demons taking over a civ besides MINING_UNDERWORLD_DISASTERS? That is, if one wanted to make a custom civilization be taken over by custom demons and their custom minions, what tags would be required for all of that stuff to work?
Starting with zero goblin civs (set in max starting civs) works. A new gobbo civ will be formed when someone opens up the circus.
Ah, sorry, I was just replying as to why a higher percentage of elves are artists, without addressing the troupe vs. individual question by itself. My mistake! It's possible the higher proportion of artists leads to more troupes just because there's more artists around. I don't think there are particular personality effects here, but I can check for next time.Thanks Toady. I'm looking forward to it.
1. In v.47.05, there were changes to the balance of migrants professions according to the changelog. Can you give an outline of what exactly was changed?
When are weather systems, basic ones, coming?
When are weather systems, basic ones, coming?
The game does, in fact, have a rather in-depth weather simulation that you never see.
I think what I mean is more stuff like lightning storms, hurricanes, tornados. More dynamic weather systems in general for the player to face. Even randomly erupting volcanoes for volcano biomes would be interesting. Biomes don't feel alive, they feel rather static, with only animal populations changing/going extinct. Even simple stuff like changing temperature over years, cloudy weather which can affect said temperature, and player actions like cutting down forests could raise temperatures. An ecology update would be amazing for DF if the time comes.
So about the Myth & Magic arc and what I understand about the cutoff between mundane and magical worlds...It would be odd if that wouldn't be a possibility. The magic sliders shouldn't be directly tied to the weirdness ones, so it ought to also be possible to play as slimes (or whatever, including elves) in an otherwise non magical world where the gods are not real.
Will there be a niche for relatively "mundane", human-only worlds which still have a certain amount of magic and unusual creatures here and there (something like Song of Ice and Fire/GoT), or does the presence of magic automatically imply nonhuman civs by extension?
I don't have any clue as to what causes an artist to elect to join a performance troupe versus striking out on their own, unless a MERCENARY tag match means "seek work/visit alone", while artists that don't match that tag join troupes/mercenary companies. Humans seem to be split between the two avenues of artistic expression, while elves seem stuck on only one (on the other hand, almost all human mercs get locked up in merc companies and thus lost to fortresses to the lament of some players, while the remainder tend to start as questers and sometimes switch over to mercs, but rather few of those are seen).
:Intelligent semi mega beasts presumably use the same breeding model as other "wild" intelligent creatures (such as troglodytes), i.e. the animal breeding model. This can be seen when a group camps in a cavern. I don't know if anyone has tried to set up any breeding programs for intelligent semi mega beasts, though, but it has probably been done.
Mage beast and semi-mega beast reproduce during world gen, how do they go about their reproduction? do giants form relationships Off screen/invisibly or is it just mindless mating/reproduction?
Since some animals do form pair bonds for life would it make sense for at least some Mega beasts and Semi-Mega beast to form relationships and track family members so they can seek revenge or render assistance to each other or are they intended to not have such motivations?
:
Fully intelligent megabeasts or otherwise for 44.12 rely on marriage rules and it happens offscreen in w.g, only slow learners like 'Giants' rely on animal-level mating given the practices you can partake in to breed troglodytes and trolls by breeding them on a chain or in cages near compatible mates. Though its fully possible now on 47.01 that cyclopian family groups could be introduced to one another in fortress mode through controlled introduction to one another on a chain in the hopes of them becoming lovers, though its not much of a existance.
The purposes for breeding cyclopses would be a difficult lengthy process, that isn't nearly as productive as breeding trolls (putting in pits, slow down siegers, long lifespan for cage exhibits) for albiet a cyclops has much more potential (once a few years has elapsed) to be used as defensive failguard or guardian of a pit. Taking into account megabeast caps too.
- The civilized concept of marriage not being applicable to megabeasts and uncivilized creatures and thinking about life-bond/relationship status of a mate -monogomy is a nice thought but probably warrants a suggestion thread instead
Do humanoid creatures (such as ogres, giants, and animal people) belong to a civilization, and therefore perhaps have 'cultures' or are they considered wildlife?
If they do, can they become things like heroes, warriors or musicians during world-gen?
Would you believe I only had to go back a bit to answer my question, who would've known...
@kontako: - None of the megabeasts are intelligent, and they can be bred (with the exception for the non organic bronze colossus, of course) as far as I understand. However, they're born adult, and so cannot be fully tamed.
Answer you may be looking for is [LOCAL_POPS_PRODUCE_HEROES]
...gremlins however as the only intentional "intelligent" pet...
@kontako:
Your questions are inconsistent:
Funnily enough, i feel some of these questions might have been spurred by a recent kruggsmash video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN1Z-dSABuM) in modded settings and the renewed interest around this bug-report on what happens when babies drop not belonging to your fort. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=11490)Spoiler: "relevant vid spoilers - TLDW" (click to show/hide)
:The omission of the semi turns out to be rather important as none of the megabeasts are intelligent, while all of the semi-megabeasts are (I don't think there's any unintelligent semi-megabeast, anyway). This means the distinction becomes important as the intelligence (or lack thereof) is implied by the description.@kontako:
Your questions are inconsistent:
Other than the omission of 'semi', I don't particularly note an inconsistency
:
How is the hit rating (not sure what you call it) calculated for logs that fall after a tree is cut?
2. Yeah, I only implemented ARG1 through ARG5 because I was being lazy or rushed way back whenever, but the loader of arguments can keep pulling them in.
5. There's a lot going on there and some examples would help me check more quickly.
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:RIB_FALSE:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:LIVER:15]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:RIB_FLOATING:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:LIVER:15]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RHB:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER:33]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LHB:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER:33]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT:IN_FRONT:BY_CATEGORY:NECK]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RCB:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER:33]
Like, the accuracy?
none of the new screens you've shown so far have had keyboard controls displayed. in fact, they look completely unusable with a keyboard to me.
Does the current version of the game really need IDLERS up front in bold fooling new players into thinking this is somehow a bad thing? Giving dwarves time off to enjoy themselves is an increasingly important part of Fortress life and I've seen new players post in panic that whatever they do the fortress is full of "Idlers".
It's a useful indicator for some people playing in very specific ways but seems a bit too frightening for what it's actually showing (a perfectly healthy fortress).
And yeeaahhh, suggestion maybe. But would like to hear Toady's reasoning on why this is important for people to know all of the time.
Quote from: PatrikLundellDoes this mean that the MERCENARY tag opens up another pool for military mercenaries/traveling artists/artists seeking employment (as individuals rather than troupes)/(potentially as traveling/job seeking scientists)?
Otherwise I don't see how the artists that do travel all end up in troupes rather than as individuals.Quote from: meAh, sorry, I was just replying as to why a higher percentage of elves are artists, without addressing the troupe vs. individual question by itself. My mistake! It's possible the higher proportion of artists leads to more troupes just because there's more artists around. I don't think there are particular personality effects here, but I can check for next time.Quote from: PatrikLundellRelated bonus question: Is there some similar logic to determine whether mercs go into merc bands, set out alone, or become quest seekers (often in groups)? Some people like hiring mercs, so it would be useful to know if there's a way to influence the ratios between them.
Quote from: squamous1. Will the medical update implement simple prosthetics like peg legs or something like Götz von Berlichingen's iron hand?
2. What are the variables needed to implement demons taking over a civ besides MINING_UNDERWORLD_DISASTERS? That is, if one wanted to make a custom civilization be taken over by custom demons and their custom minions, what tags would be required for all of that stuff to work?
3. Are there any plans to make vault dwelling angels moddable like demons are?Quote from: EternalCaveDragonIs the ability for the underworld disaster civs to spawn tied at all to MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER? For example, if one wanted to prevent the initial placement of goblin/custom evil civs but allow them to spawn after civ placement.
There probably is an obvious answer lurking around here somewhere, but I already looked and searched a bit and might have missed it.
Are there any plans to add more depth to offscreen battles in the near future? Maybe take powers besides necromancy into account?
I've been trying to work out what may be causing the migrants profession weirdness; specifically animal caretakers and herbalists being overrepresented in migrant waves, which is an issue I've been running into a lot since the last update. I have some questions regarding that:
1. In v.47.05, there were changes to the balance of migrants professions according to the changelog. Can you give an outline of what exactly was changed?
2. More generally, what determines the kind of migrants you get? I know it's supposed to be based on the availability of professions/skills at the player's fort and histfigs would be prioritised if possible. But can other factors have an indirect influence, like the age of the world or what little economy is simulated currently?
3. Under what circumstances do histfigs switch to another civilisation? I've noticed that nearly all of these animal caretakers and herbalists are former citizens of elven sites. I presume the reason there are so many of them is because they run over to the player's civ and then show up in migrant waves, but I am not really sure what causes them to do so.
When are weather systems, basic ones, coming?
So about the Myth & Magic arc and what I understand about the cutoff between mundane and magical worlds...
Will there be a niche for relatively "mundane", human-only worlds which still have a certain amount of magic and unusual creatures here and there (something like Song of Ice and Fire/GoT), or does the presence of magic automatically imply nonhuman civs by extension?
I think I found the cause of the floating down-ramps after shroom trees are cut down bug.
The algorithm for removing trees always puts a down-ramp over an up-ramp, even if that up-ramp is part of the tree to be removed. It should either ignore the type of up-ramp used by shroom trees, or ignore one that's part of the same tree (if it's possible for trees to overlap in such a way.)
This is something discovered by WindComeCalling and submitted as a bug:
DF includes two weird factor of 10 discrepancies that cancel out. Everything is ten times as small as it should be (except weapons and a few others), but everything is ten times as dense as it should be (again except weapons), so upon first inspection it's all fine. But this makes cloth denser than real-world lead, and seeds deadlier than real-world bullets (known bug). To fix this, you would reverse the changes: multiply the size of almost everything by 10 and remove the hidden factor of 10 multiplier on density when calculating weight.
TL;DR: Will everything be made bigger and less dense, and why is it like this in the first place?
Toady, with the new screens discerning animals & civilians much clearer will a gremlin's UI as a intelligent-feature-creature finally be cleaned to a usable standard to try and fit in with the rest of the dwarves?)
I doubt any improvement with the steam df graphical would be mega-amazing drastic in a rework on release in this area, but anything that is a bit clearer helps, as well as seeing the said gremlins happyness passively in civilian counts if that can be correlated to how likely they are to go and petition for full labors.
How is the hit rating (not sure what you call it) calculated for logs that fall after a tree is cut? (Edit: It's a value in the projectile struct.)
The value is typically around 1 for the created logs, but I'm not sure what the equation or random number range used is. Falling webs get a value of 0, whereas fired bolts can have a value in the 100's.
1. If the siege improvements include some kind of digging ability for invaders, could we expect material properties to play a role in ability to dig a tile? For example could iron blocks block the digging or make it very slow (like several fort mode days per block)?
2. Will the Tactician trait provide benefits to on-map dwarves after the siege improvements?
3. Will we see any basic formations for on-map dwarves in the siege improvements?
How accurate is this page: https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html, as far as planned features goes? Presumably plenty of what's planned isn't listed there, and it isn't accurate about which things are already completed, or what order you're prioritizing what remains; but would some/many of the plans there be scrapped? (even if you don't know the specifics because it's too long to actually check).
What sort of changes if any do you have planned for combat logs for the Premium release?Quote from: Toady One2. Yeah, I only implemented ARG1 through ARG5 because I was being lazy or rushed way back whenever, but the loader of arguments can keep pulling them in.
5. There's a lot going on there and some examples would help me check more quickly.
2. So to clarify (I may be failing in reading comprehension here), would it be possible for us users to define ARG6 and !ARG7 and beyond in our arguments (and pass in those arguments into the body detail plans and creature variations)?
I'm not sure whether by "only implemented ARG1 through ARG5" you're just referring to your own use of them in the files, or if it's that putting in the !ARG7 (in creature variations) and ARG6 (in body detail plans) just won't work (and that the creature can pass in more args, but they get ignored).
5. So this is what I was talking about:Code: [Select][BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:RIB_FALSE:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:LIVER:15]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:RIB_FLOATING:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:LIVER:15]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RHB:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER:33]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:LHB:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER:33]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT:IN_FRONT:BY_CATEGORY:NECK]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:RCB:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER:33]
In some cases there is a number given on the end, representing the coverage (according to the wiki), and in other cases there isn't, so I was wondering what difference this would make; like, do some relations require a coverage while others do not accept one, or is it mandatory for some but optional for others, or is the coverage optional in all cases (with some fallback "default" when no coverage is given)?
hi toady. i know you've already said that there will be keyboard support, but i'm worried. one of the best things about df classic is that - with very few exceptions - all of the relevant controls are always displayed on screen. i don't have to remember what exact key to press to be able to designate dig tiles, for example, because it's all shown right there in the side panel. it might be clunky in places, and i still have to remember which submenu things are in, but i never have to be confused about which key to press.
none of the new screens you've shown so far have had keyboard controls displayed. in fact, they look completely unusable with a keyboard to me. they're pretty, to be sure, but if there's no way for me to tell what keyboard keys to press, i'm not going to be able to play anymore. i don't have anywhere near the kind of memory needed to remember so many controls.
are you planing on making a second pass to add keyboard hints, or am i shit out of luck?
How is Scamps going ?
I heard him meow on the last youtube video, I was wondering how our beloved cat goes
We still see crayon art trickling out!
How many crayon rewards are left, and how long do you estimate before you're finished?
I know it's been answered that the text colors will be user settable. As the colors do not appear to have subsequently changed in Steam Community Updates, the following questions have arisen:
Are you in fact trolling us with the continued dark blue text on dark background?
Is that dark blue your favorite color?
How do dwarves currently decide which meeting area they go to when they're idling? Do they just go to the nearest one they can find or are there some other factors at play?
Why don't Outsiders have access to any clothing or Leather armor on the starting page? They can get chain mail and what not but why no clothing or leather?
Are there any plans to have a technology slider or anything? Like on one hand you have stone age, then on the other side you have machine guns and modern clothing
:They don't respect burrows properly. If you burrow someone in their nuptial encouragement suite while they happen to be passing through the tavern (or temple, etc.) they'll most likely start socializing in the tavern rather than going to the suite to socialize (in a zone set up there). Presumably the burrow check is performed only of there's a need to make a path to the destination checked.Quote from: NilsolmHow do dwarves currently decide which meeting area they go to when they're idling? Do they just go to the nearest one they can find or are there some other factors at play?
They check their needs first, and go with a match there. After that, they should respect their burrows and the citizens-allowed flag if applicable, but otherwise they choose randomly. There's some other stuff for guests.
:
:They don't respect burrows properly. If you burrow someone in their nuptial encouragement suite while they happen to be passing through the tavern (or temple, etc.) they'll most likely start socializing in the tavern rather than going to the suite to socialize (in a zone set up there). Presumably the burrow check is performed only of there's a need to make a path to the destination checked.Quote from: NilsolmHow do dwarves currently decide which meeting area they go to when they're idling? Do they just go to the nearest one they can find or are there some other factors at play?
They check their needs first, and go with a match there. After that, they should respect their burrows and the citizens-allowed flag if applicable, but otherwise they choose randomly. There's some other stuff for guests.
:
Starting with zero goblin civs (set in max starting civs) works. A new gobbo civ will be formed when someone opens up the circus.
Anything that changes the composition of histfigs would have an impact, since it draws from that pool. Are these worlds dominated by elves? I haven't been able to reproduce these caretaker/herbalist migrant waves. I suppose there could be some weird situation like the children of artists creating a bias, if there are more elven artists and thus a draw from the performance troupes?
Anything that changes the composition of histfigs would have an impact, since it draws from that pool. Are these worlds dominated by elves? I haven't been able to reproduce these caretaker/herbalist migrant waves. I suppose there could be some weird situation like the children of artists creating a bias, if there are more elven artists and thus a draw from the performance troupes?
I have a world (47.4) which had this, so out of curiosity i went back to check for elven meddling. No relation to performance troupes or artists, but sure enough, there are two forest retreats with many dwarves in it (each >200 dwarves, out of each ~1000 residents) and all the herbalist and animal caretaker migrants lived there at some point. The elven civilisation is big and had an alliance with the dwarven civ throughout worldgen, but for some reason war broke out during Fort mode.
So, the migrant skill problems are seemingly caused by dwarves living in elven civs in general.
Are dwarves from other civs meant to join player fortresses? They just show up there and quietly declare themselves members of a different nation? Are they alliance visa, or war refugees?
I have a world (47.4) which had this, so out of curiosity i went back to check for elven meddling. No relation to performance troupes or artists, but sure enough, there are two forest retreats with many dwarves in it (each >200 dwarves, out of each ~1000 residents) and all the herbalist and animal caretaker migrants lived there at some point. The elven civilisation is big and had an alliance with the dwarven civ throughout worldgen, but for some reason war broke out during Fort mode.
So, the migrant skill problems are seemingly caused by dwarves living in elven civs in general.
Are dwarves from other civs meant to join player fortresses? They just show up there and quietly declare themselves members of a different nation? Are they alliance visa, or war refugees?
Quote from: FantasticDorfToady, with the new screens discerning animals & civilians much clearer will a gremlin's UI as a intelligent-feature-creature finally be cleaned to a usable standard to try and fit in with the rest of the dwarves?)
I doubt any improvement with the steam df graphical would be mega-amazing drastic in a rework on release in this area, but anything that is a bit clearer helps, as well as seeing the said gremlins happyness passively in civilian counts if that can be correlated to how likely they are to go and petition for full labors.
Hmm, I doubt this'll be a high priority sadly. I kind of painted myself into a corner since gremlins are supposed to be able to be pets, so that they can pull levers and cause trouble even more maliciously, rather than being proper civ members, even though they are intelligent. And the game just doesn't support that very well.
Quote from: FantasticDorfToady, with the new screens discerning animals & civilians much clearer will a gremlin's UI as a intelligent-feature-creature finally be cleaned to a usable standard to try and fit in with the rest of the dwarves?)
I doubt any improvement with the steam df graphical would be mega-amazing drastic in a rework on release in this area, but anything that is a bit clearer helps, as well as seeing the said gremlins happyness passively in civilian counts if that can be correlated to how likely they are to go and petition for full labors.
Hmm, I doubt this'll be a high priority sadly. I kind of painted myself into a corner since gremlins are supposed to be able to be pets, so that they can pull levers and cause trouble even more maliciously, rather than being proper civ members, even though they are intelligent. And the game just doesn't support that very well.
The game does however allow children of pets, if they were born intelligent, to be assigned labors, rooms, squads, noble positions etc, and includes them under the cirizens tab. I know because I've used unintelligent pets in a rare caste to give birth to a frequent caste of intelligent children to pump up my citizen count artificially. Is it possible to enable these things on all pets that are intelligent? The game seems to already recognize them if they're born into your fort, but not tamed on site or bought from a caravan. Gremlins and trolls brought on embark (by civs that allow them) and pets that gain intelligence through a syndrome automatically self-assign labors they're skilled in and hauling/cleaning/construction labors, but the UI elements to assign labors yourself never appear unless they're born into the fort and intelligent from birth, making them a citizen that carries the (TAME) flag around their whole life. So from personal experience it looks like a UI element not getting turned on/off rather than additional issues.
I know because I've used unintelligent pets in a rare caste to give birth to a frequent caste of intelligent children to pump up my citizen count artificially.
Is it possible to enable these things on all pets that are intelligent? The game seems to already recognize them if they're born into your fort, but not tamed on site or bought from a caravan.
Also, I've never seen gremlins do their mischievous thing once tamed. Whether brought on embark, bought from a caravan, or caught and tamed on-site, they either do their default labors, or hang out in meeting halls. I suspect that something is broken there.
Quote from: Silverwing235Regarding kobolds and certain of their currently bizarre impulses - bizarre for a "context-based sublanguage",that is, to give a summary:
According to legends mode, kobolds may construct a market and a dungeon in their cave. As there is no evidence of any structures resembling such in kobold caves, they are probably either an error or serve an unknown purpose during world generation.
...which do you think it is? Thanks, anyway.
Urlance Woolsbane: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8258379#msg8258379
Yeah, Urlance is correct there - we just haven't supported everything on the monster maps. I think the code cuts them off from libraries? I hope so... there's a further complication that the 'market' flag is overloaded now to signify important sites. I'm not sure what motivated them to build a dungeon though, ha ha.
Do those scripts grant them citizenship in the faction or tick that is_dward flag or what? I know there's another script that switches visitors and invaders faction membership so they join your fort too.
- And indeed reportedly on that mod-script, when you put a semi-intelligent in charge of a squad it will crash, because it contradicts that semi-intelligents can't lead squads in fortress mode, which must be a hard-code defined thing
Oh Toady the greatest of toads, There is by any chance add a FORCE dig option (explanation dig even if there is damp location) for our tiny dwarfs? sometimes I want to dig through an aquifer location without having to remake the tile to dig again.
Thanks in advance and I wish you all shiny cut gems our dwarfs can find.
Questions in lime green please. By "Change Color" in the top right of the edit box or [.color=limegreen] with a [./color] (minus .) surrounding text.
Oh Toady the greatest of toads, There is by any chance add a FORCE dig option (explanation dig even if there is damp location) for our tiny dwarfs? sometimes I want to dig through an aquifer location without having to remake the tile to dig again.
Thanks in advance and I wish you all shiny cut gems our dwarfs can find.
Will the new multi-z-layer display be toggleable? Can we turn it off and see just one z-level at a time?
I can picture myself turning it off briefly as a way to confirm what I'm seeing, especially with ramps/slopes (fairly often until getting the hang of the new graphics).
...snip...Agreed. When I first tried TWBT it was "wow" and then the confusion was a problem along with crashes and so I play without TWBT or graphics and find it's the best way for me. No eye-candy to distract me from the pure beauty of the game itself.
While the current TWBT implementation is neat sometimes, it's not universally popular, so this was very good news. I keep it off myself, to aid in building floor spans across crevices, etc. It's neat on the surface, but underground, especially in forts with multi-z structures, it can be very confusing.
The ”before posting a suggestion” guidelines on the suggestions board (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) link to the old outdated consolidated development page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_single.html), which feels suboptimal. I’m not sure if there is a better place for this, so I’m posting this here to make sure Toady sees it.
1.When are we going to actually see festivals during gameplay?
Quote from: Eric Blank1)You mentioned gambling problems. What are dwarves actually gambling on? Can they gamble on the outcomes of WG festivities/tournaments? Or is it just abstract board/card games for now?1) He he he, unspecified. Given what we have, it's most likely those festival competitions, yeah. I may add some flavor specifics yet, if I get a chance to revisit before release.
2.Sorry if this is too much of a suggestion, but it's kind of a bummer how colosseums and skulls on pedestals do nothing but give your people trauma (especially when playing a modded race like goblins). Are there any plans to change that in the near future, maybe taking certain traits like cruelty into account?
3.Are we going to see Adventure mode ai improvements before the big wait? It's pretty silly how I can murder innocent villagers one by one and all they do is cry and spit on me.
45.Dungeon Masters don't do much right now. What exactly are they planned to do once the villain update is over?They have the intrigue tokens and handle animals, i dont know what the latter animal handling might do in the future (in the 2d past, dungeon masters were the only people responsible for taming exotics) and as up to of recently they're your spymasters.
6.Are we going to see more flexible magic system? IE systems that let you create your own spells?
What if players will have some limited access to legends right during their fortress/adventure runs that will only allow viewing events that are known to the player? This would really bring joy of discovery and some order to the information you know (especially useful in adventure mode)?I believe the past answer for the question about limited knowledge is that it's quite costly to keep track of who knows what and to disseminate knowledge to people properly, so if you ask A about something today they won't know much, but tomorrow, after speaking to B, they know a bit more, but still not everything.
Well there is already a menu that has a list of events, people, sites, artifacts, etc. that you are aware of but you can only use it to find these things on the world map. I think it would be great to have more information about them immediately available so that these things become actually meaningful and immersive.What if players will have some limited access to legends right during their fortress/adventure runs that will only allow viewing events that are known to the player? This would really bring joy of discovery and some order to the information you know (especially useful in adventure mode)?I believe the past answer for the question about limited knowledge is that it's quite costly to keep track of who knows what and to disseminate knowledge to people properly, so if you ask A about something today they won't know much, but tomorrow, after speaking to B, they know a bit more, but still not everything.
My guess is that the meta info of keeping track of who knows what easily can outweigh the actual information itself, and Legends info can be quite substantial.
That's on the fortress level, rather than the individual one, requiring a lot less memory to keep track of the state of the single fortress entity. It can be noted that engravings can reveal a lot of info not otherwise available (again, because knowledge about events isn't tracked).Well there is already a menu that has a list of events, people, sites, artifacts, etc. that you are aware of but you can only use it to find these things on the world map. I think it would be great to have more information about them immediately available so that these things become actually meaningful and immersive.What if players will have some limited access to legends right during their fortress/adventure runs that will only allow viewing events that are known to the player? This would really bring joy of discovery and some order to the information you know (especially useful in adventure mode)?I believe the past answer for the question about limited knowledge is that it's quite costly to keep track of who knows what and to disseminate knowledge to people properly, so if you ask A about something today they won't know much, but tomorrow, after speaking to B, they know a bit more, but still not everything.
My guess is that the meta info of keeping track of who knows what easily can outweigh the actual information itself, and Legends info can be quite substantial.
The 1.0.0 release is decades away. It won't be larger than 16*16 before the Myth & Magic arc, and it remains to be seen if the bugs affecting 16*16 will get prioritized before then. The map rewrite included in the first Myth & Magic release ought to lay the groundwork for additional map feature placements and sizes (by avoiding the introduction of restrictions that aren't deemed necessary), but whether anything of that is actually going to be used for embarks probably remains to be seen.
What is the biggest embark size that you expect to be stable by the 1.0.0 release? Do you think it might be greater than the current maximum possible of 16x16?
there are goals other than "immortality" that are valid for secrets. Given that they currently do nothing, unlike the Immortality goal, are there any plans to make these functional after/during the Myth and Magic "arc", or are they sort of placeholders for something bigger? Or maybe placeholders for a a kind of "primitive" magic system?
[CREATURE:PENGUIN MAN]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:BIRD_PENGUIN]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:ANIMAL_PERSON]
[GO_TO_TAG:BODY]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:BODY]
[CV_ADD_TAG:BODY:HUMANOID_NECK:2EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:GIZZARD:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4FINGERS:4TOES:BEAK:TONGUE:RIBCAGE]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
2. Moving fortresses/fortress parts have been mentioned, but are there any plans to eventually add mechanisms for things like airships in addition to sea vessels and the like?At least one of Threetoe’s stories has a flying castle in it. I don’t know what the stance on aerodynamics and balloons and the like is, but at least the magic path should be accessible at some point to those who wish to make fortresses and fleets in the sky.
1) Ill quickly say that anecdotally i've set up small taverns to ensure visitation inside hospitals by friends and loved ones, and keeping the alcohol tap flowing for the benefit of longer term residents. Since this would be awkward to overlap with two occupation zones, will there be any degree of revision change of the hospital's "rules" if nessescary to discriminate between public and private hospitals?
2) Is there a expected "flow", prioritizing fortress mode outwards into adventure and worldgen in mind or will each area for medicine affected by this occupation zone and permancy change be respectfully stalled to their appropriate arcs after the big wait?
[CV_CONVERT_TAG]
[CVCT_MASTER:BODY]
[CVCT_TARGET:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:HUMANOID_NECK:3FINGERS]
[BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:FRONT_BODY_FLIPPERS:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
How does CV_CONVERT_TAG work with target selection? That is, take this example:Code: [Select][CV_CONVERT_TAG]
In actuality `BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD_NECK` are the very first 2 arguments in BODY everywhere this pair is used, and they are beside each other, but in principle, do they have to be directly beside each other to be detected and replaced? Like, would this be detected here?:
[CVCT_MASTER:BODY]
[CVCT_TARGET:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:HUMANOID_NECK:3FINGERS]Code: [Select][BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:FRONT_BODY_FLIPPERS:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
Or does it need to be immediately consecutive?
[DESCRIPTION:This is an example creature. It is ATTRIBUTE_STRING. Very, very ATTRIBUTE_STRING]
[CV_CONVERT_TAG]
[CVCT_MASTER:DESCRIPTION]
[CVCT_TARGET:ATTRIBUTE_STRING]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:fast]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
and get[DESCRIPTION:This is an example creature. It is fast. Very, very fast.]
I don't know the answer to the second one, but there's a lot of modding knowledge floating around the community which is poorly or not written down at all. Asking first in one of the modding threads is always better because it 1. offloads Toady, 2. probably gets you a quicker answer, and 3. brings up the topic in case it is under-researched, and the subsequent !science! can either solve the issue and advance modding, or home in on a less broad question which is quicker for Toady to read through and answer.
I don't know the answer to the second one, but there's a lot of modding knowledge floating around the community which is poorly or not written down at all. Asking first in one of the modding threads is always better because it 1. offloads Toady, 2. probably gets you a quicker answer, and 3. brings up the topic in case it is under-researched, and the subsequent !science! can either solve the issue and advance modding, or home in on a less broad question which is quicker for Toady to read through and answer.
Fair enough, this makes sense; I should probably edit that question out then?
hi toady! bit of an unusual question today - we've been watching/reading this talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4b--cyXEsM) [from the 2020 virtual Roguelike Celebration] on using hash functions instead of using rand() to randomly decide things, so that rng calls won't be affected by earlier calls. it's very interesting.
does dwarf fortress do anything like this already, or have you considered the technique? we recall there being something in one of the update posts a while back that sounded you were suffering from this problem.
hi toady! bit of an unusual question today - we've been watching/reading this talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4b--cyXEsM) [from the 2020 virtual Roguelike Celebration] on using hash functions instead of using rand() to randomly decide things, so that rng calls won't be affected by earlier calls. it's very interesting.
does dwarf fortress do anything like this already, or have you considered the technique? we recall there being something in one of the update posts a while back that sounded you were suffering from this problem.
May I enlighten you to srand(), the function that takes an uint to do exactly this? It sets a "seed" for rand() and thereby it will always generate the same sequence of random numbers.
Advanced world parameters already do this! There's a seed for geography, one for history, etc. To my knowledge, there are no seeds used in Fortress or Adventurer mode.
The simple switch up to SDL2 makes the most sense first.
[CREATURE:GIANT_TOAD]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:TOAD]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:GIANT]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
[GO_TO_END]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC:100700]
[GO_TO_START]
[NAME:giant toad:giant toads:giant toad]
[CASTE_NAME:giant toad:giant toads:giant toad]
[DESCRIPTION:A huge monster in the shape of a toad.]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[CREATURE_TILE:'T']
[COLOR:2:0:0]
[PET_EXOTIC]
[PETVALUE:500]
[MOUNT_EXOTIC]
[GO_TO_END]
[PREFSTRING:beauty]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_WALK_CRAWL_GAITS:3512:2634:1756:878:4900:6900] 10 kph
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CRAWLING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_SWIMMING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
Are dwarves from other civs meant to join player fortresses? They just show up there and quietly declare themselves members of a different nation? Are they alliance visa, or war refugees?
The game does however allow children of pets, if they were born intelligent, to be assigned labors, rooms, squads, noble positions etc, and includes them under the cirizens tab. I know because I've used unintelligent pets in a rare caste to give birth to a frequent caste of intelligent children to pump up my citizen count artificially. Is it possible to enable these things on all pets that are intelligent? The game seems to already recognize them if they're born into your fort, but not tamed on site or bought from a caravan. Gremlins and trolls brought on embark (by civs that allow them) and pets that gain intelligence through a syndrome automatically self-assign labors they're skilled in and hauling/cleaning/construction labors, but the UI elements to assign labors yourself never appear unless they're born into the fort and intelligent from birth, making them a citizen that carries the (TAME) flag around their whole life. So from personal experience it looks like a UI element not getting turned on/off rather than additional issues.
Also, I've never seen gremlins do their mischievous thing once tamed. Whether brought on embark, bought from a caravan, or caught and tamed on-site, they either do their default labors, or hang out in meeting halls. I suspect that something is broken there.
On the topic, if animals as mounts and companions were to expect more scope for fortress mode and w.g as a whole (ei army arc dedicated cavalry), would the current distinction of non-histfig animals logic end up being changed eventually to create historical and non-historical populations?
EI - The named horses and animals are found in the stables but all the strays still linger around with a more even distribution on w.g of how animals are represented / dwarves bonding with their mounts or giant ridable housecats choose who can ride on their backs.
There is by any chance add a FORCE dig option (explanation dig even if there is damp location) for our tiny dwarfs? sometimes I want to dig through an aquifer location without having to remake the tile to dig again.
In the "s" Squads screen, using "p" to select individual dwarves for squads #11 and higher never works, while it does work for squads #1-10. Is this on the radar to fix?
Will the new multi-z-layer display be toggleable? Can we turn it off and see just one z-level at a time?
I can picture myself turning it off briefly as a way to confirm what I'm seeing, especially with ramps/slopes (fairly often until getting the hang of the new graphics).
is that old development page accurate in that while it's probably incomplete and not in the planned order, everything on it is still planned to be done eventually, or would some features have been scrapped?
1.When are we going to actually see festivals during gameplay?
2.Sorry if this is too much of a suggestion, but it's kind of a bummer how colosseums and skulls on pedestals do nothing but give your people trauma (especially when playing a modded race like goblins). Are there any plans to change that in the near future, maybe taking certain traits like cruelty into account?
3.Are we going to see Adventure mode ai improvements before the big wait? It's pretty silly how I can murder innocent villagers one by one and all they do is cry and spit on me.
4.I remember you mentioned adoption being added in the near future. Is this going to allow gay/asexual figures to get heirs?
5.Dungeon Masters don't do much right now. What exactly are they planned to do once the villain update is over?
6.Are we going to see more flexible magic system? IE systems that let you create your own spells?
What if players will have some limited access to legends right during their fortress/adventure runs that will only allow viewing events that are known to the player? This would really bring joy of discovery and some order to the information you know (especially useful in adventure mode)?
I don't understand how "...but the jobs will be done by anybody available, starting with the most talented." can work unless most of the work force is unassigned to any "real" job. In the current system dorfs select posted jobs as they become available for new jobs, unless unoccupied when the job is posted. Without changes to that logic, the talented dorfs will almost always get the next job in a workshop taken by somebody else, unless the current "finished job. Wander away for 10 or so steps before taking a new one" behavior is changed so dorfs now either kick the unskilled out, or grab the next job immediately. Any comments on how this will work?
On the positive potential side, does need satisfaction factor into the job selection process, such that those who desperately want to craft something get a higher priority than the usual riffraff?
What is the biggest embark size that you expect to be stable by the 1.0.0 release? Do you think it might be greater than the current maximum possible of 16x16?
there are goals other than "immortality" that are valid for secrets. Given that they currently do nothing, unlike the Immortality goal, are there any plans to make these functional after/during the Myth and Magic "arc", or are they sort of placeholders for something bigger? Or maybe placeholders for a a kind of "primitive" magic system?
I don't want to build any unrealistic expectations for myself but the hype train is real.
What's the reason for having APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION? I don't see why the likes of CV_REMOVE_TAG, when defined directly in a creature, couldn't just be applied immediately, and then the same for any subsequent CV_ tokens like CV_ADD_TAG and CV_CONVERT_TAG.
For example, penguin men start out like this:Code: [Select][CREATURE:PENGUIN MAN]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:BIRD_PENGUIN]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:ANIMAL_PERSON]
[GO_TO_TAG:BODY]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:BODY]
[CV_ADD_TAG:BODY:HUMANOID_NECK:2EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:GIZZARD:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4FINGERS:4TOES:BEAK:TONGUE:RIBCAGE]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
Why couldn't [CV_REMOVE_TAG:BODY] and the [CV_ADD_TAG:BODY:...] just be applied immediately one after the other automatically? As far as I can tell, [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:ANIMAL_PERSON] is applied instantly, it's just the manual "inside the creature definition" creature variation tokens that need APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION.
Also, why does CV_ADD_TAG need to exist anyway? If BODY has already been removed, surely it could just be re-added directly as [BODY:...], and the same for every other possible tag that could be added?
1. Are there any plans for larger cities than currently exist? Something like huge metropoli akin to Rome or Constantinople for example, taking up multiple world tiles.
2. Moving fortresses/fortress parts have been mentioned, but are there any plans to eventually add mechanisms for things like airships in addition to sea vessels and the like?
3. I've heard that there are plans for ruined civilizations and such. Are there plans for modders to be able to make ruins of their own, with custom loot/squatters/monsters?
Feels odd, but the topic for the addition of a hospital occupation has put me and probably a few other people in a wierd spot, because it makes anything said flex the thin veil of suggestionhood if its all very prematurely formed at this stage. Ill stick my neck out, assuming we don't see a steam-post before the end of the month.
1) Ill quickly say that anecdotally i've set up small taverns to ensure visitation inside hospitals by friends and loved ones, and keeping the alcohol tap flowing for the benefit of longer term residents. Since this would be awkward to overlap with two occupation zones, will there be any degree of revision change of the hospital's "rules" if nessescary to discriminate between public and private hospitals?
2) Is there a expected "flow", prioritizing fortress mode outwards into adventure and worldgen in mind or will each area for medicine affected by this occupation zone and permancy change be respectfully stalled to their appropriate arcs after the big wait?
Though i wonder how many visitors would willingly let your dwarves do surgery on them if they had heard about your inhouse hospital. Its not like they can pay you for your trouble, so im not sure what a player could even possibly get out of it besides their imparted gratitude and that character lives to survive another day. A good deed in high places makes all the difference i suppose.
If hospitals are now a location, does that mean that we will see hospitals in different parts of the world both in adventure mode and in world gen? Or will we have to wait until later for that?
My biggest concern with the new labour system is that it addresses the opposite of my own concerns. The new labour system allows you to easily prevent e.g. non-stonecrafters from doing stonecrafting jobs; I don't mind if low-skill stonecrafters do stonecrafting, but what I really want is for miners to only mine and not do any other jobs.
With the new labour system, is there an easier way to prevent e.g. miners from doing non-mining jobs, than from making every work detail selected-dwarfs-only, and then assigning every dwarf that isn't a miner to every not-mining work detail?
How does CV_CONVERT_TAG work with target selection? That is, take this example:Code: [Select][CV_CONVERT_TAG]
[CVCT_MASTER:BODY]
[CVCT_TARGET:BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
[CVCT_REPLACEMENT:HUMANOID_NECK:3FINGERS]
In actuality `BASIC_2PARTBODY:BASIC_HEAD_NECK` are the very first 2 arguments in BODY everywhere this pair is used, and they are beside each other, but in principle, do they have to be directly beside each other to be detected and replaced? Like, would this be detected here?:Code: [Select][BODY:BASIC_2PARTBODY:FRONT_BODY_FLIPPERS:BASIC_HEAD_NECK]
Or does it need to be immediately consecutive?
hi toady! bit of an unusual question today - we've been watching/reading this talk [from the 2020 virtual Roguelike Celebration] on using hash functions instead of using rand() to randomly decide things, so that rng calls won't be affected by earlier calls. it's very interesting.
does dwarf fortress do anything like this already, or have you considered the technique? we recall there being something in one of the update posts a while back that sounded you were suffering from this problem.
Are you planning to upgrade DF to SDL 2 (or has it happened already)?
What changes if any do you have planned for the likes of combat report logs, and the "block of text describing this creature's current injuries"? For the Steam release that is.
For the dragon/constrained randomizer, do you have any idea at this stage how descriptions would work? Currently descriptions for most creatures are manually entered into the raws, and for procgen creatures follow a hardcoded format for certain bodily traits and abilities.
But if dragon variations are to be exposed to the raws, presumably just 1 description couldn't cover all possible dragons without being extremely vague, but hardcoded means of generating descriptions seem a bit tricky to pull off in terms of how to neatly describe important features without describing too much, and in a bland manner (ie being too "anatomical/clinical" or repetitive, and lacking in flavor like many of the manual descriptions currently have), especially if the constrained randomizing functionality isn't tied to dragons/is expanded to other creatures.
To an extent this also applies to other procgen stuff planned to be exposed to/manipulable in the raws at a later point in some way, and because of how after myth and magic, a lot more creatures in a world may potentially be randomly generated.
EDIT: Same sort of question also goes for prefstrings.
Also, why is it that only integers seem to be used in the raws for everything? I don't think any numbers use decimal points as far as I can tell.
What's the purpose of using GO_TO_START in creature variants? For example:Code: [Select][CREATURE:GIANT_TOAD]
[COPY_TAGS_FROM:TOAD]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:GIANT]
[CV_REMOVE_TAG:CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC]
[APPLY_CURRENT_CREATURE_VARIATION]
[GO_TO_END]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC:100700]
[GO_TO_START]
[NAME:giant toad:giant toads:giant toad]
[CASTE_NAME:giant toad:giant toads:giant toad]
[DESCRIPTION:A huge monster in the shape of a toad.]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:1]
[CREATURE_TILE:'T']
[COLOR:2:0:0]
[PET_EXOTIC]
[PETVALUE:500]
[MOUNT_EXOTIC]
[GO_TO_END]
[PREFSTRING:beauty]
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_WALK_CRAWL_GAITS:3512:2634:1756:878:4900:6900] 10 kph
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CRAWLING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
[APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_SWIMMING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
Here you SELECT_CASTE:ALL, and then add one token, and then go back to the stat to add a bunch more tokens, and back to the end again.
But why is this? To my knowledge, the very start of the object is treated as the ALL caste already, so it doesn't seem like it makes a functional difference whether these tokens are at the start of the object, or at the end inside SELECT_CASTE:ALL, and it doesn't seem to serve a clear stylistic purpose either; my only guess is that maybe you look at the end resulting raw object after these commands have been processed, and so you get to see those tokens actually look at the top like with all "normal" creatures.
Have you ever considered changing the lycanthrope 'Wereass' to 'Weredonkey'? I know it's technically correct, but thinking ahead to the Steam release, might be best to just nip that in the bud, as it were.
Have you ever considered changing the lycanthrope 'Wereass' to 'Weredonkey'? I know it's technically correct, but thinking ahead to the Steam release, might be best to just nip that in the bud, as it were.
I'm for the change from "ass" to "donkey", but TBH I don't have a problem with the vomit/filth demons and forgotten beasts.
Hello! I've been working on a game myself that relies strongly on procedural generation, and I have a few technical questions as to how Dwarf Fortress world generation works behind the scenes. First of all, how does each tile decide which biome it's a part of? My game uses a chunk-based system, and I have a voronoi diagram for assigning biomes. A voronoi sample is done for each vertex of the chunk, and if there are any discrepancies then a voronoi sample is done on every tile.
Secondly, how are erosion passes handled? I can't think of a way to do it that wouldn't bleed over into nearby chunks.
Finally, how is it decided where lakes and rivers start? I know that they just go downhill after being placed, but I'm not sure where to place these water features in the first place.
I'd be fine with the ass-to-donkey change if just for consistency's sake.
No function, presumably a placeholder.
hey, not sure if this has been asked before but will the map rewrite include being able to actually mod in structures? so instead of having to use something like CAVE_DETAILED or CITY in your entity file you'd be able to insert your own raw defined structure.
Quote from: MalroktheIIITime for my newest round of stupid, far off, likely already asked, questions for you!
1:When you change world gen for the myth arc, what specific geographic features are you hoping for (either in general, or in particular)
2: With said new world gen, do you have any thoughts on how will biomes work? If you are planning a change on that front, what?
3: How long until you have working evolution (joke question, but still)
Bonus question: 1&2, but with alternate planes.
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8157663#msg8157663
The first step with the map rewrite is to create a structure which will support what we want to do, whether that's with planes or real world land/waterforms, etc. In no particular order, one list we have is different distant/time scales, a general framework for world spanning features like rivers that will allow world trees or ley lines or tortoises or whatever), world edges, connectors like rainbow bridges/multiplanar rivers, multiple view ports, boats and moving map segments/shifting mazes, shadow/veil concepts, recursive/fractal/'levels of reality'/micro-macrocosm concepts, non-rectangular world shapes (giant pillar, tubes, giant pit, etc., though we likely won't attempt traditional spheres, as wrapping abilities are limited by the grid), better geological layers/intrusions/cliffs/eroded features, support for linkages between rivers/caves entrances/etc., support for small sites (logging camps, crossroad inns, etc.), support for nomadic groups sites (the current tents the armies use are horrible), ability to support world-spanning settlements, portals (various), faerie-type border zones, infinite worlds (not that there's memory for that, but the ability to reshift focus), liquid/air/etc. based worlds, auras/fields/mists/wtvr and restructure good/evil-type sphere links, compatability with astronomical or larger universe concepts, support for regional/world natural disasters and resulting map changes (and map repair like forest regrowth), places in the clouds, underground oceans and other improved underground linkages/structure/features, consider support for broader liquid/material types in terrain, large vortices/whirlwinds/etc., z-level buildings/doors/etc., merging/mixing planes, teleporting sites, illusions of various kinds (non-tactile, tactile but impermanent in some way.)
No way we're getting to all or even most of that on the first pass! But we're hoping to create a backbone that support it all. I also have a few other lists around that are mostly in that one up there, but I doubt that's everything.
Biomes relate to a lot of that, how they are contained or how they can change and bleed together, and what sort of ecological simming we can get away with. Ultimately we'll still need to have rainfall, temperature, drainage, present species, and that sort of thing, and the existing classifications aren't bad there.
Will the existing menus be polished by artists or what we've seen is the final product?
Quote from: Immortal-DHave you ever considered changing the lycanthrope 'Wereass' to 'Weredonkey'? I know it's technically correct, but thinking ahead to the Steam release, might be best to just nip that in the bud, as it were.Quote from: Silverwing235A side note to this, but it appears demons/forgotten beasts made of vomit can also come about - definitely a bit overly 'gross-out humor' for the tone, IMO?
Hello! I've been working on a game myself that relies strongly on procedural generation, and I have a few technical questions as to how Dwarf Fortress world generation works behind the scenes. First of all, how does each tile decide which biome it's a part of? My game uses a chunk-based system, and I have a voronoi diagram for assigning biomes. A voronoi sample is done for each vertex of the chunk, and if there are any discrepancies then a voronoi sample is done on every tile.
Secondly, how are erosion passes handled? I can't think of a way to do it that wouldn't bleed over into nearby chunks.
Finally, how is it decided where lakes and rivers start? I know that they just go downhill after being placed, but I'm not sure where to place these water features in the first place.
How complex would it be to restructure stockpiles to accept modded materials?
For example, I can mod bone blocks into the game, but I can't add 'Bone' to the 'Blocks: Other Materials' menu in stockpile options, and consequently the bone blocks aren't accepted.
Could stockpiles theoretically be pushed to the raws, or would this require some kind of code that scans all of the reactions to see what can be made of what materials?
Have you thought about revamping the three main splash pages for the graphical release?
On a technical level, would you be willing (or perhaps as part of the steam release) to build DF for ARM architecture? Mostly for Raspberry Pis and other SBCs. No idea how much of a hassle that would be, but the latest RPis are powerful enough to run DF without immediately meeting FPS death.
The new video of Zach playing a desert fort has a ”stoneworker’s workshop” (seemingly) instead of a ”mason’s workshop”. The workshop also includes some tasks that reside in a craftdwarf’s workshop in the currently available versions of DF, such as those for slabs and pedestals but notably not the crafts. Does this mean all those tasks will now be done by a mason (perhaps renamed to ”stoneworker”?) and that only the common crafts such as figurines and rings will stay with the stonecrafter/craftsdwarf’s workshop?
Edit: And a question for ThreeToe: In the desert fort, you locked a door between the fort and the caverns because ”monsters might come”. Knowing building destroyers roam down there, that obviously won’t work in the long run. Was this intentional to lead new players to discover !fun! and antimeasures against it on their own? Or do you simply play more open forts like that?
Just checking regarding the MAGICAL creature-caste token:Quote from: DFwikiNo function, presumably a placeholder.
Is it actually a piece of scaffolding left sticking out, or is there more to it?
Thanks for all the effort you are doing :D I have never felt so excited about a game!
I have a doubt, I understand that the videos so far are not going to be the final product, are there any plans to add an option to enable/disable the flicker on dwarves and entities? I feel a little weird to see sprites that don't have the characteristic flicker of the game, especially I feel that the feeling of movement when moving from one frame to another is missing
hey, not sure if this has been asked before but will the map rewrite include being able to actually mod in structures? so instead of having to use something like CAVE_DETAILED or CITY in your entity file you'd be able to insert your own raw defined structure.
Will the existing menus be polished by artists or what we've seen is the final product?
What are artists working on currently? UI feedback thread has been silent for months.
Will the game have own sound effects or at least support workshop mods to add them? I mean sounds of menu interactions, environment and unit sounds etc.
Gnomoria has a concept of darkness in caves being a source of monsters. That makes room-making more demanding and purposeful. Same with cave-ins - they seem to be rather rare now so I'm not incentified NOT to make a huge-ass 40x40 square rooms everywhere. Have you considered these or perhaps other ways to make fortress design more engaging as a game mechanic?
What is your opinion about the dwarf fortress-lite genre that seems to be blossoming? Do you consider those to be competition to DF?
Have you/Kitfox considered hiring a professional UX designer who would help find optimal solutions to the arguably quite challenging problems DF has to offer?
Are there plans to eventually expand on senses, such as echolocation, more indepth/functional hearing, viper-like heat vision etc? Right now the [EXTRAVISION] tag seems like a sort of crude prototype version of echolocation in a way.
hey, not sure if this has been asked before but will the map rewrite include being able to actually mod in structures? so instead of having to use something like CAVE_DETAILED or CITY in your entity file you'd be able to insert your own raw defined structure.
Thanks Toady. Sad to see that wereasses will be renamed. The reactions from newcomers never gets old. But I understand: it's fundamentally misleading, and there are now commercial and ethical reasons for the name change.
For me it's really exclusively a consistency issue, I'm not especially concerned with abuse of juvenile puns or any potential obscure ethical objections people may have to the word "ass" that I'm unfamiliar with. It quite simply makes no sense (IMO anyway) to have the word "ass" in a game where the domesticated equine sometimes referred to by that name in the real world is only ever called a "donkey". If wild asses ever get around to being implemented as an official creature in vanilla DF, then we can talk about reimplementing wereasses and the like. Until then, as already brought up, there's always mods.Oh, does this mean the were-mammoth must now be deleted? That's too bad. All because some people find words funny.
I guess I see your point, didn't actually think of that (not to mention all the other possible procgen creatures corresponding to animals that don't currently exist in vanilla DF). To tell the truth, wherever Toady lands on the issue I'll probably be fine with it. Just felt the need to put my two cents in for some reason, which I'm now regretting. :POh, it's certainly an issue that needs some discussion. Putting aside the ass thing, is there a reason that were-creatures and demons can include extinct and mythical creatures?
Extinct creatures also give immortal monsters from "a time before time" a suitably ancient feel IMO, whereas an ass is still just...an ass.Still extinct. (Or most varieties are anyway).
Are there any plans to add giant desert scorpions back in?
will add replacement scorpion laterAlas, the powers of the scorpion are too mighty. Even a mere effigy may gain access to the source of the banished one. Who knows what happens then...
How are big enemies going to be represented visually in Steam version? Will they be multi-tile?
I could be wrong, but I believe this discussion settled on the large creatures' sprites being slightly outside the bounds of their tile, but still only taking a tile. This way it doesn't require a huge rewrite, but conveys size to some degree.
I think that Carrolito did mean the /-\| animation, status symbols, et cetera. I assume that "when moving from one frame to another" refers to these things happening over time, rather than in-game movement.Quote from: CarrolitoThanks for all the effort you are doing :D I have never felt so excited about a game!
I have a doubt, I understand that the videos so far are not going to be the final product, are there any plans to add an option to enable/disable the flicker on dwarves and entities? I feel a little weird to see sprites that don't have the characteristic flicker of the game, especially I feel that the feeling of movement when moving from one frame to another is missing
I don't understand this one - is there a characteristic flicker in the ASCII version? To me the happy face symbols are on one tile, and then they are on another tile, and there's no flicker at all related to movement or otherwise, and it works the same way in the Steam version. Whether or not there should be sliding movement in the graphical version is a different question as I understand it. Things I can think of that are like flicker are the flashing legendary dwarves, the /-\|/ animation when there are multiple creatures in a tile, and the status symbols that flash over them, but those things don't relate to movement.
I see there have been changes to workshops, menus, and jobs, and I've seen the graphical representations of these changes, but for most of them I haven't seen corresponding ASCII versions. If I choose to use the ASCII version, will I be able to identify everything immediately or will many things be unfamiliar?
I've seen how lower layers look in the graphical version, will there be similar effects in the ASCII version?
Are you working in ASCII first and then moving to graphics, or are you working with graphics first and then going back to ASCII?
Will mythologies and magic systems be customizable? And if that's the case, will they also be exportable?
On the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.
ARTIFACT = 0
IS_ARTIFACT = 1
NEMESIS = 2
IS_NEMESIS = 3
ITEM = 4
ITEM_TYPE = 5
COINBATCH = 6
MAPSQUARE = 7
ENTITY_ART_IMAGE = 8
CONTAINS_UNIT = 9
CONTAINS_ITEM = 10
CONTAINED_IN_ITEM = 11
PROJECTILE = 12
UNIT = 13
UNIT_MILKEE = 14
UNIT_TRAINEE = 15
UNIT_ITEMOWNER = 16
UNIT_TRADEBRINGER = 17
UNIT_HOLDER = 18
UNIT_WORKER = 19
UNIT_CAGEE = 20
UNIT_BEATEE = 21
UNIT_FOODRECEIVER = 22
UNIT_KIDNAPEE = 23
UNIT_PATIENT = 24
UNIT_INFANT = 25
UNIT_SLAUGHTEREE = 26
UNIT_SHEAREE = 27
UNIT_SUCKEE = 28
UNIT_REPORTEE = 29
BUILDING = 30
BUILDING_CIVZONE_ASSIGNED = 31
BUILDING_TRIGGER = 32
BUILDING_TRIGGERTARGET = 33
BUILDING_CHAIN = 34
BUILDING_CAGED = 35
BUILDING_HOLDER = 36
BUILDING_WELL_TAG = 37
BUILDING_USE_TARGET_1 = 38
BUILDING_USE_TARGET_2 = 39
BUILDING_DESTINATION = 40
BUILDING_NEST_BOX = 41
ENTITY = 42
ENTITY_STOLEN = 43
ENTITY_OFFERED = 44
ENTITY_ITEMOWNER = 45
LOCATION = 46
INTERACTION = 47
ABSTRACT_BUILDING = 48
HISTORICAL_EVENT = 49
SPHERE = 50
SITE = 51
SUBREGION = 52
FEATURE_LAYER = 53
HISTORICAL_FIGURE = 54
ENTITY_POP = 55
CREATURE = 56
UNIT_RIDER = 57
UNIT_CLIMBER = 58
UNIT_GELDEE = 59
KNOWLEDGE_SCHOLAR_FLAG = 60
ACTIVITY_EVENT = 61
VALUE_LEVEL = 62
LANGUAGE = 63
WRITTEN_CONTENT = 64
POETIC_FORM = 65
MUSICAL_FORM = 66
DANCE_FORM = 67
BUILDING_DISPLAY_FURNITURE = 68
UNIT_INTERROGATEE = 69
UNIT = 1
JOB = 2
BUILDING_PARTY = 3
ACTIVITY = 4
ITEM_GENERAL = 5
EFFECT = 6
PETINFO_PET = 7
PETINFO_OWNER = 8
VERMIN_EVENT = 9
VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET = 10
ENTITY = 11
PLOT_INFO = 12
VIEWSCREEN = 13
UNIT_ITEM_WRESTLE = 14
NULL_REF = 15
HIST_FIG = 16
SITE = 17
ARTIFACT = 18
ITEM_IMPROVEMENT = 19
COIN_FRONT = 20
COIN_BACK = 21
DETAIL_EVENT = 22
SUBREGION = 23
FEATURE_LAYER = 24
ART_IMAGE = 25
CREATURE_DEF = 26
ENTITY_ART_IMAGE = 27
ENTITY_POPULATION = 29
BREED = 30
NONE = -1
What are the proper terms?
What is the question here, all of the post? Only the edit is marked in green.
It has been mentioned before[1] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8284471#msg8284471) that divine spheres will be customisable to some extend via the Mythgen params/editor. Does it stop there?
When there's a Steam Release, is there going to be an advertising campaign? Seeing ads for DF would be a ray of sunshine in the darkest timeline.
For what it's worth, all of the "general_ref" names were taken directly from the class names (which are visible in RTTI), and for the other enum there's a function that's used to load references from savegames and it logs unique error messages for each type (e.g. "Nuked Vermin Reference (Escaped Pet)") and I used those for the names.
What is the question here, all of the post? Only the edit is marked in green.
Would like to know the proper names of the enum values, for verification. They're just integers in compiled code, so DFHack has them as best guesses based on use. Posting the correct names would be easier and more useful than answering the original (now unmarked and spoilered) question, which involves a specific segment of code.
DFHack's term "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" is either overly specific, DFHack's got something out of order, or Toady's code is checking the wrong one for some reason.
Edit: Just added the integer values to my post and noticed "CONTAINS_ITEM" and "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" share a value of 10. This might suggest it's an issue in the code, but "UNIT_HOLDER" doesn't have the same problem.
Are there any plans to add giant desert scorpions back in?
How are big enemies going to be represented visually in Steam version? Will they be multi-tile?
Has there been any thought to visualisation of damage/fight? Once dwarf and the enemy are on adjacent tiles, what will we see/hear?
would it be possible to change the layer fog in caverns to a darker purpler hue? the reason light works like this irl is because the sky is blue, but underground this wouldn't be the case, meaning right now the caves feel really outside for something hat's supposedly pretty deep
1. Assuming it's still not clear whether Linux (and Mac) support will be possible on the Steam release, at what point/milestone in development would this be investigated?
2. Obviously this depends on player feedback, but after the initial Steam release (and fixing any major problems that may arise), would there a second (small) UI pass made (and/or enhancement of modding capabilities/framework), or is it just immediately onto resuming the villain stuff?
3. Can you say roughly what sort of priority/frequency future updates to modding/workshop capabilities or UI enhancements (or even graphical, such as smooth movement between tiles for instance) would have after the initial release (and if there is one, the "smaller second pass") in general? Contingent on player feedback of course.
4. What screens/menus remain to be done for fortress mode? With the military stuff hopefully done by the time you read/respond to this, I think it's the civ screen and whatever is left in the "info hub", but what is left in the info hub, and is there anything else outside the info hub and civ screen?
5. Is the info presented in the top bar final? For instance, I think somewhere there was something asked a while back about whether it might mislead players about needing to keep the entire fort fully active at all times by showing the number of idlers, and on wider screens there's quite a bit of unused space (granted, maybe some of it should be reserved for future updates).
I see there have been changes to workshops, menus, and jobs, and I've seen the graphical representations of these changes, but for most of them I haven't seen corresponding ASCII versions. If I choose to use the ASCII version, will I be able to identify everything immediately or will many things be unfamiliar?
How well does all the information fit into an ASCII screen? How will it look at smaller than 1920x1080 resolution and/or resized windows?
I've seen how lower layers look in the graphical version, will there be similar effects in the ASCII version?
How wed are you to the ANSI colours, will you move to a broader colour palette in the ASCII version at any point?
Are you working in ASCII first and then moving to graphics, or are you working with graphics first and then going back to ASCII?
How do floaty menus work in ASCII? Do they snap to a grid or are they unaligned with the background graphics?
1.Will mythologies and magic systems be customizable? And if that's the case, will they also be exportable?
2.Are there ever going to be procedural weapons?
3.Are cage traps and drawbridges going to get nerfed with the siege improvements?
4.Are guilds and religions going to be expanded upon before the big wait?
5.Are longer weapons like spears ever going to actually have more range?
On the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.
1) Would we maybe be seeing some of this equipment screen being designed for military recycled for domestic trinkets (earrings etc) on a dwarf's person in the future?
2) Lastly, with the slots assigned imparticular would they manifest with the BP of the creature using some of the existing cues like hearing token parts required for earrings? (ei, ettins would have two helmet-slots for two independent heads, or if BP was tokened not to, retracting the choice of a slot)
That last bit is a bit suggestiony, but i have faith that it might hopefully eliminate the long standing recessive code artifact that quadruped people (along the lines of centaurs) wear two pairs of pants and shoes over their hooves.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8324639#msg8324639
Would like to know the proper names of the enum values, for verification. They're just integers in compiled code, so DFHack has them as best guesses based on use. Posting the correct names would be easier and more useful than answering the original (now unmarked and spoilered) question, which involves a specific segment of code.
DFHack's term "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" is either overly specific, DFHack's got something out of order, or Toady's code is checking the wrong one for some reason.
Edit: Just added the integer values to my post and noticed "CONTAINS_ITEM" and "VERMIN_ESCAPED_PET" share a value of 10. This might suggest it's an issue in the code, but "UNIT_HOLDER" doesn't have the same problem.
It has been mentioned before that divine spheres will be customisable to some extend via the Mythgen params/editor. Does it stop there?
Do you intend for spheres to become exposed in the Raws? On one hand, they are supposed to be universal concepts that derive their flavour from intersection, and thus wouldn't need any raw mods. On the other hand, some settings could benefit from revamping or adding spheres. (e.g. The Long Night could split "animals" between "mutants" and "nanites", and add "machine" deities.)
When there's a Steam Release, is there going to be an advertising campaign? Seeing ads for DF would be a ray of sunshine in the darkest timeline.
Thanks as always for the replies!
>Quote from: Immortal-D
> On the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.
I suspect they're getting st things like the "seed spam" you get when a dwarf grabs the seed barrel and drags it to the dining room to pick up a plump helmet spawn, leading to mass cancellation spam messages from the planter who just knows the barrel is gone. It's solved "easily enough" by making a feeder stockpile that takes seeds from anywhere but has no barrels, and a stockpile with barrels that takes from it, but it's a source of endless confusion for newer players "I know for sure I have seeds, but it says there aren't any!" I have no suggestions for a fix, but it's an ever-present issue for newer players.
>Quote from: FantasticDorf
> 1) Would we maybe be seeing some of this equipment screen being designed for military recycled for domestic trinkets (earrings etc) on a dwarf's person in the future?
I suspect they'd like to see the same sort of code used in the military screen to assign jewelry and possibly clothing, etc., to a particular dwarf. This would be fantastic for filling needs as opposed to the current "make everyone haul trinkets between stockpiles in a loop until they all take something" system, and very nice for playing dress up with priests and nobles.
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code? Do they just have amazing memories for when you've answered similar questions in the past? How do they know so much?
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code? Do they just have amazing memories for when you've answered similar questions in the past? How do they know so much?
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code? Do they just have amazing memories for when you've answered similar questions in the past? How do they know so much?
Quote from: Immortal-DOn the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8322876#msg8322876
I'm not sure what you are asking specifically here, in terms of problems to be addressed. There are new conveniences - from the item sheets, you can zip easily down into containers and then back up to whatever/whoever is holding the object, which wasn't possible before, and barrels (and later bins) graphically show their general contents a bit now.
1. Do you have plans to add more colorations of various stones (I'm assuming this would be post-release)?
2. What does this mean for stones that aren't a solid color even from a fair distance, especially puddingstone or gem walls?
(I've looked at the gem walls in the videos and they don't really stand out)
[INORGANIC:PUDDINGSTONE]DISPLAY_COLOR can manage all that, plus your color settings in init. Or am I missing your meaning?
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:puddingstone][DISPLAY_COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:233]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:CONGLOMERATE:CLUSTER:100][AQUIFER]
[IS_STONE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:2000]
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code? Do they just have amazing memories for when you've answered similar questions in the past? How do they know so much?It's been answered already, but it's a combination of past answers by Toady, getting acquainted with (some) DFHack structures (and, to some extent, participating in mapping them), posts about how things work by people on the forum, own play experience, and programming experience coupled with an idea of how Toady organizes data. All of that filtered through a memory that's far from perfect.
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code?
After the rewriting is complete, will you leave some easter eggs in the game relating the "old" way to play the game ? Like the infamous unfriendly UMKH keys ? Would something happen if you use them ?
1. Do you have plans to add more colorations of various stones (I'm assuming this would be post-release)?
2. What does this mean for stones that aren't a solid color even from a fair distance, especially puddingstone or gem walls?
(I've looked at the gem walls in the videos and they don't really stand out)
All of these are editable in the raws, and I expect the Steam release will follow the same structure.
I am also interested to see what a new 'friendly' embark screen UI will be like, if theres any general refinement in the presentation of a embark, since most players outsource to DFhack for the info they actually want, like a geological survey hinging on almost cheating on the content of the soil and ore densities/types.
But i suppose in context, you can say dwarves run around with dousing rods to get the briefest of ideas what lies on embark, or least they know already without calling upon generalized geographical knowledge (abstract from scholarly pursuits, but maybe probably shouldn't be so omniscient about it without good reason)
I am also interested to see what a new 'friendly' embark screen UI will be like, if theres any general refinement in the presentation of a embark, since most players outsource to DFhack for the info they actually want, like a geological survey hinging on almost cheating on the content of the soil and ore densities/types.
But i suppose in context, you can say dwarves run around with dousing rods to get the briefest of ideas what lies on embark, or least they know already without calling upon generalized geographical knowledge (abstract from scholarly pursuits, but maybe probably shouldn't be so omniscient about it without good reason)
True, DFhack's `prospect` is a bit overly generous with quantities and depths, but really the idea that dwarves would stop at some random location on the strength of "There's some kinds of metals here, somewhere!" as in standard vanilla embarking that's historically strange and unrealistic.
Quote from: Immortal-DOn the subject of tackling the more complicated interfaces for Steam, have you had a chance to look at bins & containers in general? i.e. Seeds within bags within barrels within stockpiles.
FantasticDorf: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8322876#msg8322876
I'm not sure what you are asking specifically here, in terms of problems to be addressed. There are new conveniences - from the item sheets, you can zip easily down into containers and then back up to whatever/whoever is holding the object, which wasn't possible before, and barrels (and later bins) graphically show their general contents a bit now.
To clarify for Bins specifically; A Dwarf will claim an item inside the Bin for a task, and the entire contents of the Bin then become inaccessible for the duration. If the Dwarf is interrupted or far away, an entire stack of cloth or bolts becomes unavailable until that retrieval has cleared.
QuoteFikilili asks "You've mentioned that you're thinking of implementing a dragon randomizer in the game, that would generate different types of dragons, and I wondered how it would work. [etc.]"
The short answer to your question is yes. The talk gives a little lengthier answer taking dragons as an example, but segues into one about Pokémon breeding and Ultima Online chicken fights after a while. I doubt the details have been worked out yet.
QuoteFikilili asks "You've mentioned that you're thinking of implementing a dragon randomizer in the game, that would generate different types of dragons, and I wondered how it would work. [etc.]"
The short answer to your question is yes. The talk gives a little lengthier answer taking dragons as an example, but segues into one about Pokémon breeding and Ultima Online chicken fights after a while. I doubt the details have been worked out yet.
Wait what? Sorry, I'm very late to the party, but when did Tarn answered my question? It's been a while. I'd love to hear about this Pokémon breeding and Ultima Chicken fight thing... Sounds weird but also extremely interesting.
After the rewriting is complete, will you leave some easter eggs in the game relating the "old" way to play the game ? Like the infamous unfriendly UMKH keys ? Would something happen if you use them ?
"DF Classic" will be included in the package as an optional feature, so it's not like the old-school intro screen will be rendered totally obsolete.
To clarify, I'm looking forward to a new one - even if it's the same intro but in the new art style.
In the z-status screen, other than prepared meals, what else is included in the "Other" category of the Food Stores?
In the z-status screen, other than prepared meals, what else is included in the "Other" category of the Food Stores?
Bonemeal, as it usually is has its own category of powder_misc_creature (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Bone_meal), sort of nessecity given you could embark ontop of a bonegrinding monster lair and then need somewhere to store the "food", but not really useful unless you find somewhere to mod it in yourself, dwarves dont make a concious effort to attempt to eat it themselves.
A alternative would be like saying you could grind up animal-dye (a powdery substance) out of vermin (sea snails and beetles), which there are some mods to do exactly that to give more expansion to the category. IRL this would be like grinding pangolin scales or big-game horns into 'folk-medicine' as like what exists in certain Asian cultures.
[...] the most popular perhaps being the addition of 1-2 extra glyph sheets👀
The wiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Status) states that it also includes stuff like flour, syrup, and even dyes.In the z-status screen, other than prepared meals, what else is included in the "Other" category of the Food Stores?
Bonemeal, as it usually is has its own category of powder_misc_creature (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Bone_meal), sort of nessecity given you could embark ontop of a bonegrinding monster lair and then need somewhere to store the "food", but not really useful unless you find somewhere to mod it in yourself, dwarves dont make a concious effort to attempt to eat it themselves.
A alternative would be like saying you could grind up animal-dye (a powdery substance) out of vermin (sea snails and beetles), which there are some mods to do exactly that to give more expansion to the category. IRL this would be like grinding pangolin scales or big-game horns into 'folk-medicine' as like what exists in certain Asian cultures.
So for the more tame embarks, the "Other" category would most likely only be referring to prepared meals then?
...
The wiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Status) states that it also includes stuff like flour, syrup, and even dyes.
Looking at my disassembly of 0.47.05, the following items are counted: prepared meals, cheeses, raw (i.e. unprepared) fish, eggs, non-raw-edible plants/growths (since edible ones count as "Plants"), "food-like" globs (e.g. fat/tallow and rock nut paste/cakes), and all plant powders (including dyes).
Hey Toady One !
Can I help with the title set? I would work for free just to help the development process. I'm not that active on the forum but... I'm willing to make anything possible to help
Hey Toady One !
Can I help with the title set? I would work for free just to help the development process. I'm not that active on the forum but... I'm willing to make anything possible to help
I think that question is best asked to Kitfox, though by the words used in the recent update they may already be covered.
How do these other forum members (like Clinodev, PatrikLundell, FantasticDorf and so many others) help answer questions, particularly ones that seem like they would require knowledge of the actual code? Do they just have amazing memories for when you've answered similar questions in the past? How do they know so much?
A long time ago, you dealt with a specific problem in ansi,
Doors and floodgates were too bright when made out of brightly colored stones.
So bright that people would refuse and dispose of, doors and floodgates made out of said stone, because of the glare.
The colors of many stones were changed to less bright versions of said regolith, while microcline and orthoclase were given a darker secondary color for doors and floodgates. cinnabar was outright made darker in color to reflect real life better, with the new red being acceptable enough for doors/floodgates.
1. Do you have plans to add more colorations of various stones (I'm assuming this would be post-release)?
2. What does this mean for stones that aren't a solid color even from a fair distance, especially puddingstone or gem walls?
(I've looked at the gem walls in the videos and they don't really stand out)
Quote from: SpriggansAfter the rewriting is complete, will you leave some easter eggs in the game relating the "old" way to play the game ? Like the infamous unfriendly UMKH keys ? Would something happen if you use them ?Quote from: delphonsoI was actually wondering about the intro screen. The opening animation is a reference to 2D DF - it is also iconic, and has a special place in our tiny, cold hearts.
Are we going to see a new opening animation?
In the z-status screen, other than prepared meals, what else is included in the "Other" category of the Food Stores?
(regarding Toady One: "the most popular perhaps being the addition of 1-2 extra glyph sheet")
do you have a shortlist of glyphs to add? will they be based on unicode glyphs, or be entirely custom?
Regarding the Patrol Route video form Kitfox:
1. Do we have to go down to find our squad as it was done in the beginning of video or it's just to show how awesome the fort is?
2. Can we now recruit more then 10 dwarfes in a squad?
To what extent will we be able to modify the art style? Would it be possible to make something more akin to castlevania sprites with more "realistic" proportions and it simply being a matter of making all the pieces match up, or would artists have to conform to the existing big-headed style for dwarves and such?
I know that, for the steam version of DF, you have enlisted the help of some of the community, including Meph. If the Steam/ItchIO release does well enough, is there any chance that you might contiunue to work with some community members on core developement?
I know that there are a lot of less demanding tasks that could be done by secondary devlopers, such as increasing animal diversity, or creating more detailed bodies for certain types of creature. I'm also aware that the community provides bug-fixes in their mods and mod-packs, thus another task that could potentially be done by a full or part-time emplyee..?
Basically, I'm very excited by the Steam release, and the potential that it's developement has for increasing developement speed and/or quality more generally, even if only in more minor areas of developement.
How are values and spheres evaluated when determining the relationship between two civilizations?
We have a pretty elaborate explanation for how ethics impact the chances of two civs going to war, but I haven't been able to find any calculation as far as values or spheres are concerned. Does it just add up the total differences in values? Do similar values reduce the chances of war, as with similar ethics?
So, in the announcement code there are several checks for adventure mode. If a position is set for the announcement (x != -30000), the type is not one of CREATURE_SOUND, REGULAR_CONVERSATION, CONFLICT_CONVERSATION, or MECHANISM_SOUND, and the adventurer is not one of the units involved, there's a final check that will cause the function to return without doing the announcement.
If I'm not mistaken, it's a check if the 5th bit of the tile's flags is false. This results in a return if the tile is undesignated or designated for UpDownStair, Ramp, or Upstair. It will proceed with the function if the tile is designated for Dig, Channel, or DownStair.
What's the purpose of this check, and is it working as intended? It seems most likely that it should be a check for a hidden tile.
This one's not technically a question, but I'll point it out:
I noticed in the checks for hidden units (used in avoiding announcements if the player can't see any units involved) that it seems like the check for being on a hidden tile won't occur if the unit is in a cage on the ground. This could potentially result in announcements being displayed that shouldn't if a caravan gets spooked and drops a caged animal while exiting through the caverns (I'll create a bug report if I can confirm that.) There might be more substantial implications in other parts of the code.
I think part of the reason it doesn't use SSL is because most people here have externally-hosted avatar images, and having HTTP images in an HTTPS page tends to result in "mixed content" security warnings. Of course, it also seems to require HTTP URLs for avatars, so that doesn't really help things much...
in a similar vein: is there any chance of updating the forums to https? http is rather antiquated at this point - my browser complains every time i open the site, lol.
I think part of the reason it doesn't use SSL is because most people here have externally-hosted avatar images, and having HTTP images in an HTTPS page tends to result in "mixed content" security warnings. Of course, it also seems to require HTTP URLs for avatars, so that doesn't really help things much...
in a similar vein: is there any chance of updating the forums to https? http is rather antiquated at this point - my browser complains every time i open the site, lol.
The purple miasma certainly gets the point across - don't go here, it's NASTY! But... I'm wondering if you might consider making it transparent? I never thought it was right that we can't even see what's underneath the stench cloud. Then again, it does add a little bit of !FUN! by way of potential surprises.
The coming week(s) it should also become more apparent whether pre-Premium saves will be transferable to the new versions. That is: Having worked on the save/mod restructuring, does it seem like the Premium release (and corresponding Classic release) will be compatible with old saves? If it comes down to writing some tool that transforms old saves/raws into new ones, has this already been done, is it something you might revisit later, or do you expect the community to figure it out (if possible)?
Not to be rude or anything. Unless its a extremely low hagging fruit, Toady should not concern with save game retro compatibility for the new version.
I have a few questions:Commitment? You mean like realistic Hungry Heads, humans who sleep once a month and visitors who don't eat?
- What does Dwarf Fortress's commitment to realism mean for, uh, sex-related stuff?
- What does Dwarf Fortress's commitment to realism mean for, uh, sex-related stuff?
Have you considered making the graphical side of the Premium/Classic division be purely a tile set one, i.e. have the same UI in both versions/modes and just have the tiles used for the game being different? As far as I can see it would mean less work to make a single UI and less work to maintain a single one.
However, it might give a weird impression to have a "normal" UI paired with character based tiles in the game (and, presumably, the tiles in the UI representing in-game things). There may also be contractual issues making the UI elements unavailable for use in the Classic version.
Well, I agree the Fortress Mode level is reasonable.Adventurer mode cuts away during boring interludes that the player doesn't need to see (fast travel, chopping down trees, building houses). Sex can very easily be covered in the same way.
However, as far as I understand, there's long been an interest among Adventure Mode players to form relations and have families. I can also imagine that some may want to engage in "conquests".
@Mr_Crabman:
According to my understanding of what Toady has said that is NOT the current plan. Instead, a "character based" UI is intended to be implemented with its own widgets emulating the "graphic" ones, but that this development won't be started until the "graphic" widgets are finalized (or nearly so), in order not to waste time on developing emulations of things that didn't work out.
@Shonai_Dweller:
Yes, I agree the physical sex act can reasonably be handled in that way, but not the path to it. At the absolute minimum for there to be any such activity (in Adventure Mode), there has to be some dialog where interest in the activity is expressed and an agreement is reached (which typically is a longer process than a direct question/direct answer in the real world, as far as I understand). Rape doesn't have to involve any dialog, but it's unlikely that would be included (and I see no reason why it should be, anyway), and even then there would have to be an order to (try to) commit the crime.
The real horror will be the procedurally generated love poetry.I'll one up that. Procedurally generated sex positions. Named after creatures in the world. Granted that might just loop back around to being funny when the game generates something like "the upward dwarf position" or the "the sideways forgotten beast position".
[PLANT:MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP]
[NAME:plump helmet][NAME_PLURAL:plump helmets][ADJ:plump helmet]
Every plant needs a structural material so that the game knows how it behaves when it's alive.
Here the material is added to the plant, using a template from the material file.
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:DRINK_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SEED_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
Here the material is marked as the structural material (this could be below the edible tags which come next). In general, you can use LOCAL_PLANT_MAT|<token>, PLANT_MAT|<plant>|<token>, CREATURE_MAT|<creature>|<token> or INORGANIC|IRON (though the game might hiccup for a while specifically on plants that aren't structurally plants).
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
We also modify it a bit to make the plant edible. Any token material can be used here to modify the material that was created from the template.
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MUSHROOM:MUSHROOM_TEMPLATE]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PICKED_TILE:6][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:0]
[GROWDUR:300][VALUE:2]
Next we establish an alcohol material in much the same way as the structural material.
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
The material template is just called "alcohol" so we need to give it a proper name.
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen dwarven wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:dwarven wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling dwarven wine]
We also set a few more numbers to distinguish the alcohol from the template.
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
The seed material and information is established in a similar fashion. Other plants (including trees) add materials in the same way, though trees cannot be used at this time with seeds/thread/drink etc. They just use the TREE tag to obtain a wood material (they also have a structural material for their live form).
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:plump helmet spawn:plump helmet spawn:4:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:rounded tops]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:58]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:0]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
- Is it true that the difference between primordial and circumstantial evil regions is that primordial ones appear as dark red/gray, and circumstantial ones appear as light/dark magenta?
[M]agenta evil biomes have been around since long before evil biome spread.
[M]agenta evil biomes have been around since long before evil biome spread.
Interesting. What about the dark red/gray ones?
[M]agenta evil biomes have been around since long before evil biome spread.
Interesting. What about the dark red/gray ones?
They have been there since before too (this version of the article is from September 2019 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Map_legend&oldid=247038), evil biome spread was introduced in 0.47.01, January 2020 (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Release_information/0.47.01)). Since I still can’t tell you the criteria I suppose they could have changed to being based on something new; regardless it is probably faster to try out yourself than waiting for the end of the month.
I'm reasonably sure it's just based on biome.
Currently Demons, boogeymen etc. are bound to evil spheres like darkness, death, horror. And good creatures are biased to Light and Life spheres. Is it possible in the future M&M mechanic to have the opposite? For example light creatures are terrorizing common folks and dark creatures are good and helpful.
Mods store version compatibility information, so saves should be able to update their mods if the authors provide when they release new versions. I've also generally restructured the data and raw folders so that more of the text files are encompassed in the object/mod system.
Do you yet have a means of handling mod conflicts, for instance if two mods both modify creature_standard.txt? Are you open to suggestions on ways to handle or reduce conflicts? I had a few immediate ideas actually
When you create a world, you can set a load order from among the mods that are installed on your computer, including the vanilla objects.
1.Just how customizable are mythologies going to be? Will we be able to make our own from scratch?1. That's the goal (within the limits the mythological mechanics will have, of course).
2.Are drawbridges going to get nerfed with the siege improvements? Pretty silly how you can squish a whole army with them right now.
:
1.Just how customizable are mythologies going to be? Will we be able to make our own from scratch?1. That's the goal (within the limits the mythological mechanics will have, of course).
2.Are drawbridges going to get nerfed with the siege improvements? Pretty silly how you can squish a whole army with them right now.
:
2. Highly unlikely. They'll probably remain unchanged until movable terrain (allowing for "elevators", multi tile traps, etc.) is tackled.
you've said in the past that you intend to update the bugtracker when you have time - is there any chance of that happening before the commercial release? it is over a decade[!] out of date now, after all.
in a similar vein: is there any chance of updating the forums to https? http is rather antiquated at this point - my browser complains every time i open the site, lol.
The purple miasma certainly gets the point across - don't go here, it's NASTY! But... I'm wondering if you might consider making it transparent? I never thought it was right that we can't even see what's underneath the stench cloud. Then again, it does add a little bit of !FUN! by way of potential surprises.
When it is done, will people be able to switch between graphics and ascii? This might be important for community games.
The coming week(s) it should also become more apparent whether pre-Premium saves will be transferable to the new versions. That is: Having worked on the save/mod restructuring, does it seem like the Premium release (and corresponding Classic release) will be compatible with old saves? If it comes down to writing some tool that transforms old saves/raws into new ones, has this already been done, is it something you might revisit later, or do you expect the community to figure it out (if possible)?
With whatever progress or inclination towards tutorialization you're doing for the steam release, do you think your work there will influence the hastening or later-groundwork implementation of the scenario arc?
- What's with the weird hardcoded materials like amber, pearl, coral, filth, and the unknown substance?
- What does Dwarf Fortress's commitment to realism mean for, uh, sex-related stuff?
- Once the Myth and Magic update is done, do you think y'all'll focus on smaller things (e.g. fixing bugs, making tweaks, optimizing things, etc.) as the community stays tided over by the update for a while?
Have you considered making the graphical side of the Premium/Classic division be purely a tile set one, i.e. have the same UI in both versions/modes and just have the tiles used for the game being different? As far as I can see it would mean less work to make a single UI and less work to maintain a single one.
However, it might give a weird impression to have a "normal" UI paired with character based tiles in the game (and, presumably, the tiles in the UI representing in-game things). There may also be contractual issues making the UI elements unavailable for use in the Classic version.
I may as well ask a thought I had the other day, while thinking about the new style for military patrols: How will notes (as in, tile markers) work with the premium version? Will they be using text symbols, abstract symbols, or actual sprites?
Below is the raws for plump helmets, but what I don't understand is, what is the deal with the MUSHROOM material? It's not used in another token (like the SEED, STRUCTURAL and DRINK materials are). so what's going on with it? This is incidentally, the only place in the raws that MUSHROOM_TEMPLATE is used (not even plump helmet men or dimple cups), making it even more mysterious.
I failed to see any world tile border indications in the video. Does that mean you can actually have embarks straddling borders of world tiles?
Regardless, as someone who always enables grids whenever possible in games, I'd suggest the introduction of an option to show world tile and intermediate tile boundaries at least (character mode probably doesn't need a grid at the one tile per tile scale, but I'd still want to know where the world tile boundaries are for the zoomed in mode).
If nothing else, a grid would help answering the inevitable question of players why half of the single biome embark suddenly freezes over while the other half doesn't for a world tile straddling embark (and, conversely, it can be used to deliberately seek out straddling, for various effects).
- Why are good wetlands blue instead of cyan?
- Is it true that the difference between primordial and circumstantial evil regions is that primordial ones appear as dark red/gray, and circumstantial ones appear as light/dark magenta?
- Are there any plans to have flora or fauna unique to anti-savage regions?
Currently Demons, boogeymen etc. are bound to evil spheres like darkness, death, horror. And good creatures are biased to Light and Life spheres. Is it possible in the future M&M mechanic to have the opposite? For example light creatures are terrorizing common folks and dark creatures are good and helpful.
I just got to thinking something: In 0.34.07, mining was changed so that mining out a tile of ordinary stone had a 25% chance of producing a loose stone. At the same time, the yield of the “make rock blocks” reaction was changed to produce four blocks from each stone instead of the one block it had previously produced. Why weren’t other reactions that use ordinary stone (such as reactions for stone furniture or stone crafts) changed to increase their yields?
How will elevation be shown on the new embark screen? Will it be the same as classic version but changing the whole map?
Will the current pathfinding bug be fixed? The one when if you have several digging designations one above another miners run up and down constantly to dig portions of halls instead of just digging one of them and then move to another.
Are some of the features/capabilities from the likes of community tools such as "Legends Viewer" and "Legends Browser" on the table for the official legends mode for the Steam release?
1. About what you said in your latest devlog:QuoteMods store version compatibility information, so saves should be able to update their mods if the authors provide when they release new versions. I've also generally restructured the data and raw folders so that more of the text files are encompassed in the object/mod system.
Do you mean that the mods can store information about compatibility with their own previous versions? Or is "version compatability information" referring to compatibility with different versions of DF?
2. Is there more to come for modding/save changes beyond what's been completed already/covered in this devlog?
3. Oh, speaking of mod version compatibility, assuming it's about save compatibility with previous mod versions, how would a mod author know if their mod is save compatible (trying out their mod updates would probably reveal this, but I have a deeper question kind of)?
As far as I know, currently, lots of changes (particularly adding objects, and basically all ENTITY changes) won't actually work in existing saves (because for instance, new creatures need to be populated at the start of worldgen to actually show up), but won't cause an existing save to break (so someone can update the mod even if they won't get all the benefits), whereas some changes will break existing saves (the only ones I know of are removing objects and changing body parts: https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1271).
So basically, what kind of mod updates other than changing body parts or removing object IDs will break/destabilize a save? (if you expect this answer to change due to more modding/raw changes, you may as well wait until it's finalized to answer this)
Considering you're farther along in an adjacent topic, do you know now if Steam Workshop support will be available at the initial release, or whether that's something to fiddle with after?
Quote from: Urist McSadist1.Just how customizable are mythologies going to be? Will we be able to make our own from scratch?
2.Are drawbridges going to get nerfed with the siege improvements? Pretty silly how you can squish a whole army with them right now.
3.Are diseases a planned feature?
4.After the magic update will there be procedural sins?
5.How are necromancer experiments going to look like in the steam version?
6.Will we be able to use the same creation myth for multiple worlds?Quote from: Sui imagine this will have much the same answer, but - is there any chance of seige engine projectiles moving to an arc-based trajectory, instead of being "locked" to a single z-level, in the seige improvements? most specifically for the catapult, with the ballistae it's much less obvious that something is funky.
Will the post-steam army update include something like armor for war animals?
1. How active will Gods be during play in either Adventure or Fortress modes (obviously it would depend on the characteristics and motivations of said Gods), will some Gods actually alter the environment, manifest, or intervene in mortal affairs, or will they remain stagnant/deistic after Myth Generation?
1.1 If they will interact in the world as you play the game, would there be any variance or nuance as to the level of interaction? Would some Gods alter the weather while others casually delete continents for fun and actively show their presence?
2. In Adventure mode, will the new procedurally generated magic systems require a new complex screen/UI for casting spells? Or will it just be a plain list of spells and a "Press X to Cast!"
When will we be able to see an example of the `info.txt` file for mods, and examples of the new raws/modding format?
There's not a lot of time to do a variety of features, so we may be limited to hyperlinks and tabs.
Yeah, you can embark anywhere now.
It is currently unknown what actions are required to complete this quest. Attacking, killing, murdering, robbing, harassing, and arguing with the inhabitants does not seem to work, nor does causing insurrections seem to be the solution.
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:LYING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:NOT_APPLICABLE]
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods. Could you provide any elucidation?
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods. Could you provide any elucidation?
You may want to expand on that yourself - I believe it's been mostly asked and answered? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179415.msg8343301#msg8343301 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179415.msg8343301#msg8343301)
I noticed that dragonflies are incorrectly represented in game as having two wings, as opposed to four. This led me to realize that there is no default body plan for creatures that possess four wings. [BODY:4WINGS] isn't included in the vanilla raws.
Upon further investigation, I was surprised to learn that of the very few insects that received sponsored requests during the animal sponsorship drive, that one particular insect, the damselfly, actually features a four winged body plan, however the game only represents damselflies as having two wings.
Are there any plans to update the game files so as to provide the other two wings to creatures who naturally possess four? For reference:(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:1500x700,q:85/14/24014-004-D4BAD59E/parts-adult-damselfly.jpg)
Gelders are useful to keep the damnable cats under control (although drawbridges work as an alternative, and females can't be gelded), shearers provide you with wool (which you need for moods, even if you won't bother using it for clothing). I personally won't bother with milking because I'm too lazy to write a script that manages it (and buckets are in short supply for a very long time), but it is useful to provide favorite food ingredients, as well as cheese (although you probably don't need as many cheese makers as you get via migrant waves).Let's say a 'Rancher' profession replaces gelder, shearer and milker. The jobs and the way we use them would stay the same, so if no milking job is started, no dwarf will do it. A dwarf with this skill would be more useful, that's my point. I also think that improving the job organisation is not necessary, especially with the new system. But my example doesn't really matter, I'll just rephrase my question:
Mashing roles (or professions, if you like) into fewer ones takes away control from those who want it, while only saving (some) players a few role selections when organizing dorfs. If you go the main (Premium release) route and let the game try to organize labor it won't matter at all if roles are specific or mashed into a small number of combination roles since you won't touch it anyway.
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods. Could you provide any elucidation?
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods. Could you provide any elucidation?
Fey means having a sense of nebulous otherworldliness, like you might ascribe to a person who suddenly dropped everything and started babbling about some legendary thing they're going to create.
@Mr Crabman
...Sometimes, as seems to be the case here, people dump their questions and run. So, this is just me properly colouring, fixing, and keeping things on track, since dikbutdagrate didn't seem to bother with that at all.
Hybrids: That has been discussed many times in the past (for races, not castes, although the standard caste case is very simple and exists in DF: offspring of the male caste and the female caste randomly belong to either parent caste, while same caste creatures won't produce offspring. More complex caste societies again produce offspring that belong to one of the castes, not hybrids). It's a matter of descriptions as well as determining how to determining the characteristics of the offspring for creatures with the same basic body plan (flipping a coin for one or the other as a base for a feature, or interpolate, or a random value in between the two; base of the individuals or their races, or outside the range of either, etc?). The more difficult case is called the Centaur problem here, i.e. how to mash together different body plans into a new creature. Both cases are intended to be addressed at some time in the future, and at least the first problem probably has to be solved during the Myth & Magic arc when procedurally generated races are introduced (not exactly the same, but the logic is probably going to be much the same). Whether the Centaur problem itself will be tackled remains to see (it's also possible to generate weird critters using a number of templates).
The life span of offspring of two races can be determined to be that of either parent or somewhere in between. When one parent is immune to aging the "in between" would have to first realize that the offspring is now aging, and so assign some max value for how old an aging creature can become.
It can also be noted that offspring parameters may not lie within the span of that of the parents. As far as I understand, ligers and tigrons are larger than either parent species, for instance.
Thanks Pat! But I thought the Centaur problem was already solved, based on what is already featured in game? The example of the centaur seems like an imaginary problem, one which only exists because it seems like it does. You have men with the head of X, hands, whatever, already in game, and a centaur is no different.
Distinguishing a severed centaur hoof from a severed centaur torso is really no different than the distinguishing of the severed, limbs, shells, and parts of anything else for any other creature or entity. What does butchering a severed centaur leg turn into? Centaur bones, centaur meat, centaur hair, and centaur hoof. What does an arm or a hand turn into? Centaur meat and centaur bones, albeit with less hair, less meat, and less hoof. A severed centaur leg doesn't produce horse meat, just as its torso doesn't produce people meat. Else we would expect a number of animal-people to produce different types of meat, which derive from entirely different species, depending on which part of their body we dissect.
If I may, I'm redirecting this discussion of the centaur problem to its most recent suggestion thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175335.0). It brings up some answers to the points brought up here, but I'm sure there is still room to improve on the topic over there.
Will it be possible to customize the text colors used in various places, and how would this be done? The new cyan text (as seen for example, in the recent new legends mode menu, used for entities/civs) is okay to read in of itself, but I find it really hard to distinguish it from the normal white text around it.
Why are wars fought over some issues more than others? For example devouring of bodies, tree or animal killing, and trophies. I've been testing warfare for a while and it seems like certain ethics are more likely to trigger wars than others. The main thing that seems odd to me is slavery, which Im guessing wars arent fought over so that dwarves and humans are not constantly at war. Will this be in place forever or will it be changed eventually?There's this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=22151.msg240207#msg240207), the questions from that being, is it still accurate, and why just those ethics?
See here (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Color_scheme).
As many tabs as I want it is said, but how many tabs until the programme bites it? :D
Will it be possible for the scrollwheel now do actual scrolling in menus? One thing I noticed while trying to browse legends currently is that you have to use the arrow keys to very slowly scroll up and down, because using the scrollwheel zooms in and out instead, which maybe works for fortress mode, but is pretty uncomfortable when trying to scroll through a long menu (which is what a lot of legends mode screens are).
What image and audio file types will be accepted by DF for the likes of graphics or sound packs? Or has it not changed?
Finally, I’ve noticed that it’s impossible to show the entirety of an embark even at the largest zoom level because part of the embark gets cut off by the black regions on the sides. Would it be possible to change this to allow the full embark to be seen (I’d kind of like to get a screenshot of my full embark, but it’s currently impossible)?
By tabs, are you referring to:
1. Changing the display structure of individual pages, like say, having "relationships this figure has" be a separate tab to "things this figure has done in their life"?
Or:
2. A browser like situation where one can have multiple pages open at once, like having "Urist McExample" in one tab, "Aban DwarfGuy" in another, "The Kingdom of Monarchy" in another, "The Scroll of Lazy Name Examples" in yet another and so on?
'Cause trouble' quests in adventure mode rear their heads again. Given the decent summary of them we have here, my question is:QuoteIt is currently unknown what actions are required to complete this quest. Attacking, killing, murdering, robbing, harassing, and arguing with the inhabitants does not seem to work, nor does causing insurrections seem to be the solution.
...my question is, Could you please explain how to do this; it's obviously been causing 'trouble' of its own for quite a while, which I for one am profoundly sick of? Thanks very much, and happy lutefisking, I suppose?
Edit: I had also intended to ask, regarding Kobolds' entity ethics, are those generally (frex):Quote[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:LYING:NOT_APPLICABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:NOT_APPLICABLE]
finalised, or not? Because if not...well, there is a certain source of highly probable misinformation floating 'round elsewhere, in regards to the Kobolds' (supposedly, lack of) verbal language based on this premise that I feel needs stamping out. Thanks again.
Are there any plans to update the game files so as to provide additional wings to creatures who naturally possess four? And do you have any plans at this time for issuing a formal televised & tear-filled apology to the user who requested the damselfly and was evidently shortchanged?
There’s a bit of a discussion going on in one of the threads in the suggestions forum as to the meaning and origin of the phrase “fey mood” in relation to strange moods. Could you provide any elucidation?
1. The transition between z-levels and ramps still look a bit jarring to me. Are there any plans to add graphics or add shadows to destinguish levels from each other?
2. Looking at the new workshop design I'm curious: Are they single graphics or are they compositions? So - if I changed the graphics of the Lever, would that also change how the Lever on the Mechanics workshop looks?
3. I have to know: Will bars, grates and glass be see-through, so I could see what's below?
In the steam & classic versions, when a tile contains multiple creatures/items, will they still cycle (or flash) to show their presence as they currently do?
I hope so!
Currently in adventure mode the game performance struggles in human cities: the many characters in the area cause the game to lag, making it hard to play. However there are a lot of cool features in the game located in cities: taverns, catacombs, dungeons. Will the in-city performance be optimized by the steam release?
Are there plans to merge or change the useless and rarely used professions (milker, shearer, etc.)? I know that you said changing them would destroy saves, but I wanted to know if a change like that is likely if old saves won't work in the steam version anyway because of some other changes in the code.
Also, are you going to rebalance prices? Wax crafts and mead for instance are very labor intensive and pottery uses a lot of resources, but they are pretty much not worth the hassle compared to stone or metal crafts. Prepared meals on the other hand are an incredibly easy way to get rich. I know that more work not does not always equal a higher price in a real market and perfect balancing of that would be a bit game-y, but honey and wax were very sought-after commodities in medieval times.
...
Let's say a 'Rancher' profession replaces gelder, shearer and milker. The jobs and the way we use them would stay the same, so if no milking job is started, no dwarf will do it. A dwarf with this skill would be more useful, that's my point. I also think that improving the job organisation is not necessary, especially with the new system. But my example doesn't really matter, I'll just rephrase my question:
Are there plans to change professions with the steam release?
Just curious as to why the "Cull unimportant historical figures" option in world gen is so CPU intensive. Is it doing a simple check to see whether dead historical figures have led important lives, and if not flagging them for removal, or is does it attempt to retcon their lives to be a bit more important?
Mr. Toad, question: Why is it that the dwarves in world-gen are able to understand how cold an environment is, but not how hot it is? Meaning, they seem to avoid expanding when surrounded by temperatures of absolute zero, but will continue to expand into areas that are DF's equivalent to 2,556,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit. When I embark in those areas, I get notifications that my dwarf's eyeballs are melting out of their heads, and that my wagon has burst into flames. The rest of the dwarf civ doesn't seem to mind though.
Last one: If Dwarf Fortress could be played as a competitive real time strategy game, over LAN against a real human opponent, in which you share the same map, but with fog of war, and the goal being to wipe out all of your opponents dwarves, what would be your strategy for winning your first game? How would you maximize the value of your starting deployment material? And how do you stop the mad man who deploys seven dwarves maxed out in mining and dodge, who is making a break for the circus, in an effort to flip a coin on who ends up losing first once the clowns arrive?
Will it be possible to customize the text colors used in various places, and how would this be done? The new cyan text (as seen for example, in the recent new legends mode menu, used for entities/civs) is okay to read in of itself, but I find it really hard to distinguish it from the normal white text around it.
Why are wars fought over some issues more than others? For example devouring of bodies, tree or animal killing, and trophies. I've been testing warfare for a while and it seems like certain ethics are more likely to trigger wars than others. The main thing that seems odd to me is slavery, which Im guessing wars arent fought over so that dwarves and humans are not constantly at war. Will this be in place forever or will it be changed eventually? Also will noble succession ever be "cleaned up" for the intrigue release? With actual pretenders to the throne and such?
Quote from: Mr Crabman1. A recent devlog says the most important event of the last 1000 is shown every second in the "worldgen legend chronicles"; what determines the "importance" of an event?
2. Can you move the cursor/camera around the world during worldgen now? It would be nice to see during worldgen what places there are other than The Mischievous Hill in The Land of Funerals, and to have info about them.
3. Do the responsiveness changes or history readouts slow down worldgen any significant amount? I wonder if perhaps there is some threading going on here, since in principle it would be a lot easier to put UI (or "legends browsing") on a different thread to worldgen, than it would be to do the usual threading suggestions (which would involve huge rewrites), and it would come with noteworthy other potential benefits (like genning multiple worlds at a time).
4. How much is left now to be done before release?
5. I recall it being said that other OS compatibility would be investigated after the worldgen/embarking was done, around the time when modding and legends, adventure, arena and such stuff were looked at; since we're in that midst now, is there any news on the Linux support front?
6. With the new modding system, is there (or will there be) a way to have "settings/options" for mods in the mod loading menu? Currently it's possible to offer different versions of a mod, or to make a mod modular; just distribute a zip file on DFFD with multiple folders (or just files) inside it and tell people which folders or files to copy into the raws depending on the content they want.
But on Steam, the workshop only allows one "version" of each mod to be hosted per mod, so there wouldn't really be a practical way to make mods have parts that can be enabled or disabled (or to have different "versions" of the same objects), because uploading alternate mods to the workshop would get ugly in a hurry (polluting the workshop with many nearly identical mods). That is, unless it's possible for modders to define some options viewable ingame (like labeled checkboxes) that can enable and disable certain objects or groups of objects, or overwrite certain objects with alternative versions (or even enable/disable certain sections/raw tokens in some objects, so as to reduce duplication).
(toad: moved this up from your other question block): Can individual mods now group files into subfolders within the mod (either for mod option modularity purposes if they apply, or for simple organizational purposes with no functional meaning), or do they still have to be kept all in one folder with no subfolders (ie a "flat" structure of sorts)?
7. Somewhat related to the last question, one thing that seems like it would be useful is for mods adding new content (eg, new creatures), to be able to "support" multiple different tilesets (at least, the big/popular ones that many people would want) rather than just having only one set of sprites. Would there be some way of supporting this other than the somewhat clumsy solution of just posting supplementary mini graphics packs to the workshop? The "options" mentioned in question 6 wouldn't really be suited to this because for save compatibility reasons, options could probably only be set when first creating a world, whereas graphics should be changeable during gameplay.
8. How are mods differentiated from each other for the purposes of listing dependencies? One could imagine 2 mods happening to use the same name, which could lead to confusion when a player is deciding which mod they need to get (especially if they are mutually incompatible).
9. About mod loading order and overwriting; can raw txt files in different mods share the same name and header text (like `creature_ocean`), or would one overwrite the other? Obviously actual object ID's can't be shared and one has to override the other, but filenames/headers seem like they should be able to only have meaning in the context of that individual mod.
10. Have any decisions been made on what's going to happen to the "classic" fort mode music track now that it doesn't fit alongside the new ones? Is there some place for it in the Steam version even if it's not fort (or adventure) mode?Quote from: InariusYou say "The most important event of the last 1000", but how does the world generator "knows" what is "most important" ?Quote from: voliolWhat is the not-so-graphical work being done the coming weeks? More Legends mode? Packaging for Steam/itch.io? Classic? Secret?
Quote from: scriverAs many tabs as I want it is said, but how many tabs until the programme bites it?
This is actually a very important question that I'm interested in and wanted to draw your attention to. Maybe you (Toady) should artificially cap it at the point where it becomes unstable, if only to intercept "my game crashed because I opened 5000 tabs in legends mode" complaints.
Quote from: Mr CrabmanWill it be possible for the scrollwheel now do actual scrolling in menus? One thing I noticed while trying to browse legends currently is that you have to use the arrow keys to very slowly scroll up and down, because using the scrollwheel zooms in and out instead, which maybe works for fortress mode, but is pretty uncomfortable when trying to scroll through a long menu (which is what a lot of legends mode screens are).
What image and audio file types will be accepted by DF for the likes of graphics or sound packs? Or has it not changed?Quote from: A_Curious_CatWould it be possible to support tilt-wheels for scrolling side to side? Also, would it be possible to support touchscreen gestures (such as pinch-zoom and two finger scrolling) on systems that have them?
Finally, I’ve noticed that it’s impossible to show the entirety of an embark even at the largest zoom level because part of the embark gets cut off by the black regions on the sides. Would it be possible to change this to allow the full embark to be seen (I’d kind of like to get a screenshot of my full embark, but it’s currently impossible)?
Mr. Toad, question: Why is it that the dwarves in world-gen are able to understand how cold an environment is, but not how hot it is? Meaning, they seem to avoid expanding when surrounded by temperatures of absolute zero, but will continue to expand into areas that are DF's equivalent to 2,556,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 degrees Fahrenheit. When I embark in those areas, I get notifications that my dwarf's eyeballs are melting out of their heads, and that my wagon has burst into flames. The rest of the dwarf civ doesn't seem to mind though.
Was this modding the temperatures to extremes? Perhaps the cold check matches up with the biome stuff, so it happens to work out? But they considered ultra-high temperatures to be "tropical" still?
Thanks as always for the replies!
@Mr Crabman:
If you haven't seen this, it's well-worth your time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRxLNo7XQE
2. Yeah. You could always do that when paused or at the end, but now there's hover info too.
6. We don't have this currently, but doing something like it would be possible. I know Factorio for instance has mod settings you can do at startup and in-game etc. - but we don't have nice scripted files in a widely adopted format, so it's a bit trickier for us to get at things like that (or to do interface mods/API-style mods generally.)
7. I'm not sure I've quite understood this one. Like, if we have big popular set B, and default set A. Then somebody makes a new creature, they'd provide pictures of it in both A and B styles, and you can flip between them? This isn't supported right now, but it seems feasible enough - as a startup setting anyway, or on a per-load basis. Switching graphics sets would have to process a lot of textures and I don't see it as something that would be happening on the fly exactly (the classic version is a special case since it uses a very limited set of characters which can remain in memory.) It is at least the case now that saves don't retain any graphical information, so we shouldn't have compat issues down the line if we do more here
Embark image: I don't think this'll be possible. In the existing version, there is the image export feature which produces what's effectively a screenshot of a z-slice, which you could then resize in any way you like, though maybe not what you wanted? (though we haven't got that done either)
8. We use identifiers for dependencies. I'm not sure how to avoid trouble if people use the same identifier, since we don't ourselves control a central hub with links or anything like that - for instance, I don't know how much Workshop helps with that, or enables chains of downloads etc., if the modder provides some kind of workshop id/page, but our own system of dependency tracking has to work independently from Workshop. This makes it less friendly, since we don't have our own mod server. It shouldn't be too long before I finally get a chance to look at Workshop integration and we'll see what more there is to say, and if our own internal system changes to something that can capture both that and elsewise. Integration may mean mods have to have two identifiers for all I know, which'll be fun.
9. Identical filenames should be fine.
Thanks as always for the replies!
@Mr Crabman:
If you haven't seen this, it's well-worth your time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRxLNo7XQE
I have; it's interesting stuff (I love this sort of creativity leading to things few would think of, like a language without permanent meanings of words), but I'm not sure what I said that prompted this?
Have you considered allowing players to designate an entire ore/gem vein from an exposed tile instead of using a selection rectangle with sub-settings? I was recently reminded that the former is not a vanilla function (DFHack), and seems like a good quality of life addition for Steam.
Have you considered allowing players to designate an entire ore/gem vein from an exposed tile instead of using a selection rectangle with sub-settings? I was recently reminded that the former is not a vanilla function (DFHack), and seems like a good quality of life addition for Steam.
If I'm understanding correctly, it actually is a vanilla feature, it came in some years ago with marker mode and taverns, if I recall correctly, but I talk to people who don't know about it all the time!
From the menu, click d then a, and look near the bottom of the menu. You'll see, as you press a repeatedly, that "a: Designating All" will cycle through several other options, including "a: Automining Ore/Gems" which works very much like DFhack's "digv", you can select a single tile of a vein or cluster and it will designate it to be mined out. The main difference is it doesn't "cheat" and reveal the whole vein at once, but discovers each tile as it becomes visible, then designates it. Much more elegant.
Here's the wiki page: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Designations_menu#Designations_modification
(https://i.imgur.com/YWs9EnP.png)
Ok, if I understand correctly, Adventure Mode isn't sure to ever be released in the steam version ? That would be too bad, it has crazy potential !
Where did you hear adventure mode might not ever come to Steam? It'll definitely be coming eventually, though I think I've heard (unsubstantiated) rumors/guesses that it might be skipped for the first Steam release to get it out sooner, but those rumors will be confirmed or deconfirmed one way or another this Thursday when we get the official steam release roadmap.
We haven't started converting adventure mode yet, and I think it's premature to say exactly how much we'll be able to manage before it crosses the point of being good enough for a release. It is a weird creature in a lot of ways, and a lot of things are broken about itMy overthinking self overthought these words as "it's so broken we're gonna try but maybe not succeed to cross the point of being good enough for a release", but that's just me then. I'll eagerly wait for the roadmap 8) the hype !
Where did you hear adventure mode might not ever come to Steam? It'll definitely be coming eventually, though I think I've heard (unsubstantiated) rumors/guesses that it might be skipped for the first Steam release to get it out sooner, but those rumors will be confirmed or deconfirmed one way or another this Thursday when we get the official steam release roadmap.
Thanks for reassuring me ! This got me worried :We haven't started converting adventure mode yet, and I think it's premature to say exactly how much we'll be able to manage before it crosses the point of being good enough for a release. It is a weird creature in a lot of ways, and a lot of things are broken about itMy overthinking self overthought these words as "it's so broken we're gonna try but maybe not succeed to cross the point of being good enough for a release", but that's just me then. I'll eagerly wait for the roadmap 8) the hype !
]Does "haven't done anything with Adventure mode and Arena mode yet" mean these modes would be available with the old (0.47) interface? Or unavailable at all?
Feedback on the Official Announcement of yesterday:
Whatever you do, DON'T do a "full release" with half of the game missing (Classic, Adventure Mode, Arena, ...). IF you feel a need to get something out there for feedback and whatnot, make an alpha release (a.k.a. "Early Access"), but don't adopt the awful deceitful recent practice of making a "full release" that actually doesn't contain half of the contents. Also, if you do make an alpha release, make a firm promise to actually finish the job before moving on to the "post release" phase, or you'll make it far too easy to push those parts off until never, especially when under pressure from those who don't care about the missing parts. Or you can make the honest decision to drop the cumbersome parts and state that clearly. An honest disappointment is far better than a deceptive promise that won't be kept.
Also note that an alpha release will inundate you with new bug reports of most of the bugs that are currently in the bug tracker as new people encounter them. They will demand that these bugs get fixed yesterday.
If I had had it my way DF would be in perpetual "Early Access", but that would be in its beta stages, not this alpha stage. And it has been decided not to do it that way...
<snip>Quote from: A_Curious_Cat<snip>
Finally, I’ve noticed that it’s impossible to show the entirety of an embark even at the largest zoom level because part of the embark gets cut off by the black regions on the sides. Would it be possible to change this to allow the full embark to be seen (I’d kind of like to get a screenshot of my full embark, but it’s currently impossible)?
<snip>
Embark image: I don't think this'll be possible. In the existing version, there is the image export feature which produces what's effectively a screenshot of a z-slice, which you could then resize in any way you like, though maybe not what you wanted? (though we haven't got that done either)
What are the legalities of releasing the game on Steam without ASCII or Adventure mode? Considering the parity issues mentioned before, and that those parts would exist outside of the Steam version in 0.47.05, are there any risks of 0.47.05 downloads on the Bay 12 site leading to trouble? Or does that mean including a 0.47.05 download as well, somewhere in the Steam setup for Premium?
Why does DF use its own special format for raw files instead of an existing format (and particularly, why was the decision made that the format should SCREAM EVERYTHING)?
But can [moving the camera during worldgen] now be done unpaused? Sorry for asking, it's just that this sentence feels ambiguous.
Do you think it would be feasible to do [mod options] before the first release? Even just being able to enable and disable particular raw files (or multiple raw files) from being loaded/read based on labeled checkboxes (maybe also with a descriptive "this will enable X" blurb written by the mod author) being ticked or not would go a long way, basically offering equivalent power to what we have now, and it would solve the potential problem of the workshop (and DFFD probably) being filled with similar but slightly different versions of mods. Being able to enable or disable specific chunks of raw files (marked by special tokens at the start and end of the "chunk") would be even better, but presumably a bit harder to implement.
What's the limit for zooming out, and what's the cause of this limit? I worry if it might prevent larger screens from being able to see bigger sections of the embark (leading to them just having "bigger tile squares" instead, which isn't an ideal use of extra screen space).
[identical filenames:] What about the header at the top of the file (which can be different to the filename in principle, though usually it's the same), or was that implied in your response?
Are gremlins being trainable intentional, or a case of a pet token you forgot to remove? Given they're the only sapients you can train, and trained sapients are buggy at best, I was wondering whether it was an accident or something you actually intend to expand upon later.
How much can/has DF be/been multithreaded?
As CPUs grow wider and not fast, it seems like headroom for performance for Single Threaded applications has been reached.
DF seems to have a lot of opportunity for threadedness which has not been taken advantage of but this can be hard to perceive. Often threadable tasks are quick and efficient while the non-threadable tasks may be long and slow so the actions which were threaded are completed quickly and wait while the rest of the software completes.
Are there other milestones which stand in the way or things which need to be stabilized before threading is safe?
Will the other main civilizations (especially humans) get hairstyles for the Steam release? It looks like only dwarven civs have defined hair styles in the raws it seems, and now that we have graphics, it could be weird or samey looking if everybody ends up with super long ungroomed hair unless they live with dwarves.
I noticed a while back that night trolls that abduct creatures always transform their new mate exactly 9 months after the kidnapping. Is this because of pregnancy time? Does this mean that giving birth to a night troll's child turns a creature into a night troll? Why does it work the same way for male abductees? If worldgen happens to end during the time between a kidnapping and the transformation, could I travel to the night creature's lair and peer into the data structures to see if the female is pregnant?
Have you considered allowing players to designate an entire ore/gem vein from an exposed tile instead of using a selection rectangle with sub-settings? I was recently reminded that the former is not a vanilla function (DFHack), and seems like a good quality of life addition for Steam.
1. Why are embark tiles 48x48? It feels like a weird number, neither just an intuitive even number like 100, nor a power of 2 like 32 or 64.
2. Would custom/moddable biomes and dimensions be possible in the future at some point after the map rewrite and mythgen?
That is, for biomes this would ideally enable things like custom ranges of flora/fauna with different predominances.
And for dimensions, would allow stuff like their own set of biomes and geology/material composition and structural generation (probably borrowed from other parts of worldgen, like "this is a cavern-like dimension" or "this place is made of floating rocks in a void" or something; or maybe that would be per-biome or something) and their metaphysical/magical rules (to an extent anyway; leaving some flexibility for mythgen to play with the dimension to varying degrees would be good probably).
In both cases, I mean in advance of worldgen itself for worldgen to work with, not just editing a specific world map post-worldgen with the "map editor" that's been mentioned before.
How would mod updates work with the fact that saves don't keep raws anymore? One thing I see that worries me is that neither DFFD nor the Steam Workshop store old uploaded versions of mods (uploading a new version replaces the old one), so if all saves share mods (since they aren't stored inside the save folder anymore), that means updating a mod could irreversibly make all existing saves using it unplayable, and therefore as long as those saves exist, updating mods won't be safe/doable, so it won't be possible to use an updated version in a new save even though it could make use of it (if not for the other existing saves relying on the old version).
Ok, if I understand correctly, Adventure Mode isn't sure to ever be released in the steam version ? That would be too bad, it has crazy potential !
How often are you designing/planning/discussing other future stuff during, or when taking pauses from, working on the Premium release? Compared to during a more ”feature-heavy” arc like the villains one. Is it more often as revamping menus is more samey? Or more seldom because of being busy or having planned out what can be already? Or about the same?
1. The number of sliders that can be put into the "main" generation screen is limited for obvious reasons of not being overwhelming; just some basic stuff, and all the masses of complex options get shoved into the advanced worldgen menu.
But for myth and magic (and maybe even future updates possibly, if you have plans that far ahead), what do you imagine these "top level, non-advanced" sliders for worlds would be? The most obvious ones (and which have been mentioned before) for myth&magic are a "mundane vs fantasy" slider, and a "randomness" slider separate to that maybe (though what a zero-fantasy world with high randomness would even mean?), but there also has been mention of things like world bleakness and such in the past, so I'm curious what you consider worthy of being a "basic" slider for the normal worldgen menu.
2. So you got a new batch of music from the composer apparently... What will it be for?
1. What menus could not make it over to Classic semi-automatically? Due to what UI elements? The icon buttons?
2. It makes sense to me that Adventure and Legends mode get priority over Steam Workshop support. Is 4. on the roadmap just investigating Workshop, or for implementing it as well if it doesn’t take too long?
3. Have you figured a way to make future menus Classic/Premium-proof, having seen what broke this time? So that you won’t have to do double menus in the future?
Does "haven't done anything with Adventure mode and Arena mode yet" mean these modes would be available with the old (0.47) interface? Or unavailable at all?
Will the weapons made by Ironhand keep the same style, or were the bases as well as the variations we’ve seen made by Meph? If they have changed, may we see them (for mod spriting purposes, as well as curiosity)?
Where does tutorialization go in the roadmap? With the tool-tips?
What sort of features for Legends mode were you thinking of for point 5 in the roadmap? I assumed the hyperlinks, tabs and worldgen chronicle were going to be the end of it to be honest, at least until post-release.
Quote from: squamous1. Are there any plans in the near future (post-Steam release) to implement a description tag for things like plants and items?
2. Even if the graphical version of the game is published with only fort mode available, will the classic version of the game exist on steam as a separate branch of the game you could chose to install?Quote from: voliolWhat are the legalities of releasing the game on Steam without ASCII or Adventure mode? Considering the parity issues mentioned before, and that those parts would exist outside of the Steam version in 0.47.05, are there any risks of 0.47.05 downloads on the Bay 12 site leading to trouble? Or does that mean including a 0.47.05 download as well, somewhere in the Steam setup for Premium?
1. How flexible is the versioning for mods? Like, is it just a string that you can put anything in, or does it want 3 numbers separated by dots, or an arbitrary number of dot separated numbers, or what?
2. Do you expect that there would be any kind of automatic version compatibility detection for mods (based on author-provided information of course), or would the nature of the version numbers make it just something the end user has to figure out? Like, if the author says that "3.0" is incompatible with "2.9" saves, would the syntax the author uses for that make it possible for the game to auto-detect that the mod shouldn't be updated to 3.0 for that save?
3. Will it be possible for graphics packs to define a greyscale texture and then have it be filled in with a true color? I ask because this old post by Meph: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178199.msg8255811#msg8255811
Shows that hair colors for example, are bunched into groups, where each defined color has to point to its own specific sprite in a spritemap; so basically, would it be possible in principle to only have one sprite for a given hairstyle, and pull the color for the (greyscale) sprite directly from the defined set of colors? Or does each color always have to be its own sprite?
Quote from: BlueManedHawkWhy does DF use its own special format for raw files instead of an existing format (and particularly, why was the decision made that the format should SCREAM EVERYTHING)?Quote from: Mr CrabmanAdditional question along these lines, under what circumstances would you switch to a more traditional format for raw fies? You've mentioned before the idea of switching to a "proper scripting language" in a way that didn't sound like it was totally out of the question, just impractical.
I don't even know if Lua is the normal decision anymore or if other things have become more accepted.
Old installed mods should stay around at least - it unzips them into their own folder, which doesn't conflict with other installed versions, and I don't think Steam erases those since it isn't linked to their database. So there's one buffer anyway, though it wouldn't help if you had to reinstall the game or use another computer. Of course keeping the old installed mods also leads to a garbage pileup issue, since mostly you'll just want newer (compatible) mods. Not sure what to do about that yet.
2. Legends, more seasonal stuff, caverns, battles... and there's more coming, ha ha. This has been going quite well.
If they don't have graphics and mouse support, they won't be in the Premium release.
Python an Lua are both script languages, which means they can be used to write plugin scripts. I don't think they're particularly good for defining data, though (although Lua is better than C in that regard, which doesn't say much).
Note that none of the above should be seen as recommendations. There may very well be more suitable candidates for both scripting and data definition, but you should use something suitable for your purpose, not something that's widely use for other purposes.
The nutjob who created JSON threw out the baby with the bath water when removing the support for comments in a rage fit over someone "abusing" comments for processing directives, according to the explanation I've heard, so comments are out, unless you disguise them as data...
The nutjob who created JSON threw out the baby with the bath water when removing the support for comments in a rage fit over someone "abusing" comments for processing directives, according to the explanation I've heard, so comments are out, unless you disguise them as data...
I... What?
I removed comments from JSON because I saw people were using them to hold parsing directives, a practice which would have destroyed interoperability. I know that the lack of comments makes some people sad, but it shouldn't.
Suppose you are using JSON to keep configuration files, which you would like to annotate. Go ahead and insert all the comments you like. Then pipe it through JSMin before handing it to your JSON parser.
-snip-this old joke led to some funny adv builds. Since they were probably one of the fun types of pets to get for a human outsider given one could see how many gremlins could survive any hostile encounter or attempt to train and armed a pack of gremlins with weapons see if they fair better. then there's the making a gremlin performing troupe.Quote from: OluapPlayerAre gremlins being trainable intentional, or a case of a pet token you forgot to remove? Given they're the only sapients you can train, and trained sapients are buggy at best, I was wondering whether it was an accident or something you actually intend to expand upon later.
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8350582#msg8350582
Yeah, this is all kind of half-assed, based on a very old joke/easter egg that gremlins could be 'tamed' after being caught in cage traps but then would still go pull levers, if this ever worked. It should probably all just be turned off at this point and revisited from something more like the villain/impersonation context vampires etc. use, and that wouldn't be a high priority thing.
-snip-
creature_other
[OBJECT:CREATURE]
[CREATURE:FOXSQUIRREL]
Thank you for the answers, Toady!
And thanks to Crabman for thinking ahead wrt modding!Python an Lua are both script languages, which means they can be used to write plugin scripts. I don't think they're particularly good for defining data, though (although Lua is better than C in that regard, which doesn't say much).
Having modded with Lua before, I agree with this. Lua's greatest strength for modding is the ability to re-arrange function calls and shuffle data with little to no knowledge of what other mods may do. This would require DF to be partially rewritten and exposed in Lua.
Some of Lua's shortcoming wrt data are, to quote a friend: no integer type, coercion between strings and numbers, "tables" being one kind of data structure for both sequences and key/value associations (and mixtures of both)
Quote from: Eric BlankIf modifications are done to the vanilla raw/objects folder directly instead of packed into a mod zip file, does the game treat them like theyre vanilla objects, and then additional mods are applied on top of those per the load order?
Do you yet have a means of handling mod conflicts, for instance if two mods both modify creature_standard.txt? Are you open to suggestions on ways to handle or reduce conflicts? I had a few immediate ideas actually
Su: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8340044#msg8340044
If you alter the base game files directly, the game has no idea this has happened, and treats them as the vanilla objects.
Suggestions threads are always welcome - people have made some regarding mod management already and it's helpful to see what people want here especially since modding is naturally community-oriented.
As Su says, the load order is the new main way of managing conflicts, and also the manual tagging of conflicting mods (which I imagine will mostly just apply to mods in use by a lot of people, since it's a manual process.) It seems difficult to try and tackle any meaningful conflict detection in code. People will just need to be mindful of the mods they are installing, but I'm open to ideas people have, though I won't be able to act on a lot of them initially.
As I understand it, engraved floors will now show an image of the thing engraved. How does this work for the more abstract subjects, such as the shapes? Does it show only the first noun if, for example, the description is complex (for instance, "a Dwarf slaying numberless goblins. The dwarf is laughing," would render as a dwarf?) If the image is of a specific historical figure, how does the game 'dress' the image- is it based on what they're currently wearing, or is it based on their occupation? If so, does the game remember their occupation after death? Are generic dwarfs naked?
How does the idea of grouping different versions of a single mod inside the same folder sound for helping with this issue? And under the same "slot" in the ingame list, with a list of which versions you have alongside the description stuff (maybe a dropdown menu where the version number is displayed). This would at least somewhat neaten the mod folder and ingame modloader (so the garbage buildup would just be about disc space rather than clutter), unless this is how it already works?
Could the current/old versions be enabled through some out-of-the-way config option somewhere, maybe even requiring editing a text file instead of just toggling something in the menu? At least the Object Testing Arena, because it's quite handy for... Object testing. Trying to update mods for the new graphics functionality (or trying to make new mods entirely) for the Premium version would go somewhat slower and more painfully if there is no way to instantly test things on the Premium version, and if the concern is exposing unwitting new players to an unpolished and difficult to use menu, requiring out-of-the-way configuration to access it would solve this.
Can 2 different files in different mods use the same header? By "header", I mean the first line in the raw file, which apparently, unlike the actual filename, determines the raw loading order; for example:Code: [Select]creature_other
[OBJECT:CREATURE]
[CREATURE:FOXSQUIRREL]
Here `creature_other` is the header, and `creature_ocean.txt` has the header `creature_ocean`.
So the question is basically: will 2 different, simultaneously loaded mods be able to use a file that is named `creature_other.txt` and have `creature_other` as its header (and each mod would have different contents in each file), or would this cause one of the files to be ignored or overridden?
Having to be careful about naming the mod identifier itself, and about naming object identifiers (assuming you don't want to overwrite the vanilla [CREATURE:DWARF]) makes sense, but the filenames and headers would be rather convenient to have "isolated" within each mod so that one can just use readable filenames/headers without worrying if someone else has used them.
Zach says you're good at guitar now, and you said you've been practicing for years... any chance we can get a secret (patron only? ;)) bonus track for the release of the steam version of something in the same style by you? As much as you disparage your improvisation from way back when it has a mood to it and I think people would love something in a similar style and I hope it would be a pretty low effort project for you.
You've said before there's going to be multiple "passes" of magic update, and the first one isn't going to have all the stuff you have planned, but will lay out the framework for it to be possible. Where do these "extra passes" fit into the timeline? Are they just multiple different releases one after the other (and being released in pieces/passes so that the big wait isn't quite as big), or would they be separated by other update arcs like starting scenarios or economy or boats?
Is there any technical constraint or conceptual reasoning behind beverages not changing in qualiy the same way meals' quality depends on cooking skills? I just noticed how brewers don't get to make masterwork distilations, and I wondered if alcohol quality was ever considered before as a feature.
Is the new palette swap system going to be used for all items and constructions (walls, floors etc) so that the colors are accurate? I heard before that constructions weren't going to be recolored because it wouldn't look great, but with the new recoloring system that answer might have changed.
Will there be any changes to how "evil" artefacts get handled? For example the reason why necromancer apocalypses are so common is because after a slab is made, if the new necromancer either doesn't do much with it before perishing (persumably if they dont want to conquer the world/write books forever) and it gets dumped in a random hamlet/town it inevitably leads to the death of all nearby civilization because any random civilized mortal person who wants to become a necromancer can become one just by reading it with no delay. I doubt that anyone other than goblins/maybe weirder human civs would keep a dark slab like that around, especially if they know the potential consequences. Will this ever be changed? If it were would this apply say to artefacts made in fell moods/from goblin's doing murdering. It seems odd that fell mood artefact creators seem to go unpunished by their civilizations as well. Is this intentional?
currently, all overground crops can be planted year-round. will this be changed before the Big Wait?
As I understand it, engraved floors will now show an image of the thing engraved. How does this work for the more abstract subjects, such as the shapes? Does it show only the first noun if, for example, the description is complex (for instance, "a Dwarf slaying numberless goblins. The dwarf is laughing," would render as a dwarf?) If the image is of a specific historical figure, how does the game 'dress' the image- is it based on what they're currently wearing, or is it based on their occupation? If so, does the game remember their occupation after death? Are generic dwarfs naked?
How does the material blend with the colour palette in engraved images? What I'm thinking of is, if a particular material has a primary colour of black and secondary of green, and another material, primary of black and secondary of green, could you make an attractive chequerboard pattern of circles with the right material?
Do you have any plans for constructed engravings?
1.Are the starting 7 ever gonna have customizable personalities and traits?
2.It's pretty annoying how once you retire your fort, half your dwarves leave. Is there any planned fix for that?
Are there any plans to have countries have borders? Kinda hard to draw world maps when all the countries are interlaced with each other.
Quote from: TheFlame52Are there any plans to have countries have borders? Kinda hard to draw world maps when all the countries are interlaced with each other.
The mess will likely continue, since things are supposed to be messy, though we have a few additional notions we didn't have originally (with the various holdings) that give it a bit more structure sometimes.
I would love to have territorial wars, customs, frontier patrols, or fortified frontiers like the roman Limes. I would feel much more alive and real. At least for organised territories (human culture, for instance)
Is this part about the map screen in legends, and changes made to it for the upcoming release? Or don’t you think language borders will ever become clear in the game, even after entity/politics/what-have-you rewrites? I don’t know much about medeival geopolitics so I don’t know if fuzzy borders would be historically accurate.
I would love to have territorial wars, customs, frontier patrols, or fortified frontiers like the roman Limes. I would feel much more alive and real. At least for organised territories (human culture, for instance)
hi, welcome to the forums! if you want toady to read something, you should use lime green text. however, it looks like the suggestions board (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) might be a more apropriate place to post.
I would love to have territorial wars, customs, frontier patrols, or fortified frontiers like the roman Limes. I would feel much more alive and real. At least for organised territories (human culture, for instance)
hi, welcome to the forums! if you want toady to read something, you should use lime green text. however, it looks like the suggestions board (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) might be a more apropriate place to post.
Well, i have been here for the last 10 years, so don't welcome me. And here i don't want to speak to toady, i'm just reacting. I have asked or answered many times here before. If i wanted to ask Toady a question, at least i would use a "?" . Thanks for the help anyway but i think you are a bit overreacting here :)
Are there any planned uses for golden salve and liquid fire?
1. Will there be randomly generated “Chosen One(s)” “Son(s) of God(s)”, "Speakers for God(s)" or “Messiah(s)” in Dwarf Fortress's Myth [and Magic] Update?
Animal people from in the caverns are listed as possible targets for interrogation. Technically regular animals are too, so this might not be intended behavior. It still got me thinking.
A ) Will there be a chance of a wanderer in the caverns being propositioned to steal something by the local animal people instead of just attacking every time?
B ) Is there any chance that animal people and/or trolls be able to petition release?
~C is snipped~
I know I've asked about trolls before but you recently talked about being unsure if they could be citizens already so I wondered if you'd changed your mind.
A trade depot in 0.47.05 can hold several caravans simultaneously. When the player tries to trade, the UI asks which one to trade with.[1] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179775.0) I don't recall seeing anything about this (admittedly niche) feature in the Premium devlogs and previews.Yes. Gameplay mechanics are the same between versions, and any instance where they are not is a bug.
Can a trade depot in Premium still accept multiple caravans?
Unless I missed it, we haven't seen any screenshots of the Classic/ASCII version yet. Any chance we can get a preview of what it will look like?
Is this part about the map screen in legends, and changes made to it for the upcoming release? Or don’t you think language borders will ever become clear in the game, even after entity/politics/what-have-you rewrites? I don’t know much about medeival geopolitics so I don’t know if fuzzy borders would be historically accurate.
Also, is the knowledge tab planned to eventually hold esoteric magicky knowledge? Or some other knowledge? It feels to me that the info in there wouldn’t be something I look up for an individual dwarf, because I don’t know how to interact with it, but maybe that is because it hasn’t surfaced before so I’ve not gotten used to it.
I remember reading once that the Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art set up a preservation system for DF releases. There was some quote about how if all of Bay12 blew up, their curators would have a copy. Does that still exist, and will they get archival access to the premium releases?
The new elven grown wood weapons seem to have leaves on them... Does this mean the graphics raws can differentiate between grown and normal wooden items?
Last year you've made a statement of support to Palestine. It would mean a lot if you condemned russian genocide in Ukraine in similar way.
Are there any planned uses for golden salve and liquid fire?
Quote from: WraithfulWrath1. Will there be randomly generated “Chosen One(s)” “Son(s) of God(s)”, "Speakers for God(s)" or “Messiah(s)” in Dwarf Fortress's Myth Update? If so, how will they be fit into the wider Creation Story and can they be tied into play or will they be a strictly Legends-only edition?
2. Slightly riding off of question one -- Will there be various “Prophecies” or “End times” events for the Proc. Generated Myth? If that concept is planned, will some Prophecies and/or End times actually happen during gameplay (meaning you can actually WATCH the world be destroyed or reformed) or will it just be part of the Myth story?Quote from: BlueManedHawkI certainly doubt the term "messiah" will be used, but this does sound like it could be cool. I wonder if it would be possible to start adventurer mode games as a "Chosen One".
Animal people from in the caverns are listed as possible targets for interrogation. Technically regular animals are too, so this might not be intended behavior. It still got me thinking.
A ) Will there be a chance of a wanderer in the caverns being propositioned to steal something by the local animal people instead of just attacking every time?
B ) Is there any chance that animal people and/or trolls be able to petition release?
C ) What about getting messengers, negotiations, or demands from the elves petitioning for the release of animal people?
I know I've asked about trolls before but you recently talked about being unsure if they could be citizens already so I wondered if you'd changed your mind.
D ) Since changes to sieges and the second villains release are now both coming before The Big Wait will there be more ways of non-lethally incapacitating invaders than just static cages? Or options to leave them unconscious to be dragged off by their retreating army?
E ) If someone's armies get wooped in battle enough do they form a rival attachment to an enemy general? Or is that only for athletic matters? Semi-related do rivals have a bias towards or against kissing one another before/after an athletic competition?
Are expansions to the C screen now you've revamped it in the recent devlog on the table for the future? trying not to skew the question with a suggestion, but practical ones like seeing tunnel connection points between fortresses and any subterrenean FOV your civilization has relevant for travelling.
Regarding the early game stress fixes you posted about; How will the game handle a migrant who has family on the other side of the world, so he is immediately depressed due to missing family?
A trade depot in 0.47.05 can hold several caravans simultaneously. When the player tries to trade, the UI asks which one to trade with. I don't recall seeing anything about this (admittedly niche) feature in the Premium devlogs and previews.
Can a trade depot in Premium still accept multiple caravans?
These new animal people sprites have more variance in their body shapes than I remember from the ones shown earlier, though the two bird-men and insect-men seem to have the same base. Will they have support for showing actual worn clothing/armor where possible (i.e. the body because they all have unique heads and limbs)? Or will the brown tunic be the extent of their graphical wardrobe? Or some in-between where the tunic can be palette-swapped according to profession?
Edit: And apropos of the giant toad/toad man shown, do you have any plans for how to fix that bug of them not appearing in-game? Will the principle of creatures not just "spawning" but having to arrive from off-screen be broken, since ponds never cross the borders of the map?
Unless I missed it, we haven't seen any screenshots of the Classic/ASCII version yet. Any chance we can get a preview of what it will look like?
Ah, I wasn't even aware of the giant toad/toad man problem, so I don't have plans for it. Seems like something that should be fixed though! We haven't done much with behavior of creatures in their environments so pond restrictions don't seem important to maintain for things like toad people.
in all our time on bay12, we don't think we've ever seen zack post to the main page. what brought that about?
in all our time on bay12, we don't think we've ever seen zack post to the main page. what brought that about?
im going to put a question in for the next one.
1 will prophets have more functions in the myth and magic update depending on who they serve.
2 would it be possible when prophecies come out to proclaim your own.
Toady has said in the past he doesn't want to release it directly because its content and function would inevitably become what people expect the DF mythgen system to be, and he wants freedom to essentially set up the df mythgen system separately, doing things that that generator can't do and otherwise not trying to emulate it
im going to put a question in for the next one.
1 will prophets have more functions in the myth and magic update depending on who they serve.
2 would it be possible when prophecies come out to proclaim your own.
Lime green so they're read please @Bloodwarrior.
About #1 Do you mean by the context of interpretation/actions they take to try and follow their gods direction? In the Bible, 'God' regularly intervened with the lives of the Disciples, going where they were directed by 'him' or whisked away abroad to spread Christianity faster and correct notions on his intentions to deviate from the set Abrahamic Judaic view of the faith (which i guess is a bit like travelling inside one DF religious sphere of nature, and ending up with a emphasis on trees on the related childtype on similar but different values).
Or uh, did you have something slightly more cultishly world-doom cataclysmic dramatic in mind?
I think Toady would have difficulty with that question on the first try to be honest, it took me a few re-edits of this post to try and understand it, if you could expand the question with a bit more detail that'd help.
To answer #2 abstractly, (genuine) prophets do technically already work as the middlemen to deliver religion to the non-believers, so when they have a mechanic to actually communicate with gods as actors (which is something im not entirely sure you need myth and magic to do, gods already "talk" with the mortal world through dice) it may be a thing to pursue in adventuremode once villian arc gets more fleshing out.
If you're a good persuader you can already sway people with the power of arguement on mundane topics through talking or writing very well, notably in fortress mode, priests can convert folks inside of temples burrowed there within listening distance when they deliver their sermons, so even if you make it up in adventuremode, you can in theory just choose a diety, and go prophiezing from there town to town with your persuader skill until people knock-on effect believe you. (if something like that ends up being implemented)
What is the "shrouded history" mentioned in the prefstring of kobold bulbs?
Is there a matrix/spreadsheet screen planned that has skills in columns with rows being dwarves? Many city builders based on DF have this type of screen to quickly isolate/find which citizens are the best at things and it would help build initial militaries and finding the best gem setter in the fortress when needed.
Why are fluffy wamblers immune to fevers, despite vermin not getting affected by fevers in the first place?
With the map rewrite, will you be taking a stab at improved hydrology? Specifically I'm thinking of tides, oceans that don't freeze solid every night, and perhaps icebergs? Will geysers ever be a feature?
With the map rewrite, will you be taking a stab at improved hydrology? Specifically I'm thinking of tides, oceans that don't freeze solid every night, and perhaps icebergs? Will geysers ever be a feature?
Wanna make your question lime green so Toady knows its directed at him. Oceans that dont freeze solid was definitely one intended feature thats been brought up since literally the inception of the game. Icebergs and geysers Im not sure ive heard about specifically. Tides, who knows, im not sure ive seen a game simulate tidal action before. Waves, sure, we have those now, but the tides rising and falling over the course of the day ive never seen done before
I've spent the last some days updating tracks and rollers and stops.
1. Have the tutorials been finalised? Do they cover everything?
Are starting scenarios/goals incoming in the near or long term?
Will the Steam release include new music? If so, has the music been made yet?
Legends, more seasonal stuff, caverns, battles... and there's more coming, ha ha.
What gameplay value does it add to have so many different kinds of stone, wood, vermin, gems, etc. when most of them are, for many practical purposes, exactly the same? How does this help to make the game more fun?
What gameplay value does it add to have so many different kinds of stone, wood, vermin, gems, etc. when most of them are, for many practical purposes, exactly the same? How does this help to make the game more fun?
It adds to the flavor, which is arguably separate from pure gameplay, but also contributes to an enjoyable experience. Stuff like setting red tourmalines in the eyes of your volcano god statue, and indigo tourmalines in the one of the night goddess, is fun.
What gameplay value does it add to have so many different kinds of stone, wood, vermin, gems, etc. when most of them are, for many practical purposes, exactly the same? How does this help to make the game more fun?
It adds to the flavor, which is arguably separate from pure gameplay, but also contributes to an enjoyable experience. Stuff like setting red tourmalines in the eyes of your volcano god statue, and indigo tourmalines in the one of the night goddess, is fun.
[Snipped from above.]
There are modifications that set out to streamline things like this though, as with a bit of clever editing you can route the products of animals/people to a generic type (takes technical effort, commonly creature variations or CV's for short) and simplified wood/metals more broadly displayed without really affecting their impact aesthetically, like converting all appletree logs into "hardwood"
[Snipped from above.]
There are modifications that set out to streamline things like this though, as with a bit of clever editing you can route the products of animals/people to a generic type (takes technical effort, commonly creature variations or CV's for short) and simplified wood/metals more broadly displayed without really affecting their impact aesthetically, like converting all appletree logs into "hardwood"
What are those modifications? Also, surely there must be some stuff that they can't simplify because it's hardcoded, right?
There's a pretty good current reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/v0vsi1/necromancer_towers_should_be_nerfed/?depth=10) about problems with how necromancers work now.On this specifically, would it be worthwhile to both make having any sort of undead affiliation (necromancer and undead both) more implicitly hostile to living entities, and also for living undead/necromancer-created monsters to better purge their preexisting affiliations to be more implicitly hostile? I definitely noticed in my campaigns way too many flavors of undead something-or-others milling about casually, which doesn't seem quite right.
As you're looking at difficulty options, what changes are planned for necromancers?
What, exactly, is meant by “irritation” in the most recent devlog? At first, I read it as “irrigation” but then I noticed it was actually “irritation” and now I’m confused…
In adventure mode, the visible tile flag is the 5th bit. It cohabitates with some of the dwarf mode digging stuff to save room. Since I think the dwarf hidden flag might be if you ever saw it, not if you currently see it, where a new flag was needed.
Is there a reason you are going back to giving us twice-a-week instead of once-every-two-weeks news on bay12games dev blog ?
It's been something like years, (maybe 2014 ?) last time you did this.
I personnally like this way, but i wondered if there was a specific reason for this sudden change ?
What, exactly, is meant by “irritation” in the most recent devlog? At first, I read it as “irrigation” but then I noticed it was actually “irritation” and now I’m confused…
i assume this is going to be some measure of how much you've changed the area by digging, chopping down trees, and / or killing wildlife.
Is there a reason you are going back to giving us twice-a-week instead of once-every-two-weeks news on bay12games dev blog ?
It's been something like years, (maybe 2014 ?) last time you did this.
I personnally like this way, but i wondered if there was a specific reason for this sudden change ?
Steam release is a big event. Im sure they can answer this well enough themselves but there's a lot riding on this so the Tarn brothers are on their A-game to ensure it goes well. The funds crucially will be going towards Zach's surgery if i remember correctly of a melenoma on his nose and ensuring the game's future security.
Are animal man tribes going to attack in an ambusher style raids, and if so, what are their objectives? To steal items, kill dwarves, or annihilate our fort?
Quote from: Suin all our time on bay12, we don't think we've ever seen zack post to the main page. what brought that about?Quote from: InariusIs there a reason you are going back to giving us twice-a-week instead of once-every-two-weeks news on bay12games dev blog ?
1 will prophets have more functions in the myth and magic update depending on who they serve.
2 would it be possible when prophecies come out to proclaim your own.
In the past I remember mentions of adventurer-conquerors and government positions as a possible part of the upcoming Army Arc (the later being possible already with a little dialogue trick, but not very satisfying). After a long time and the current developments in the Steam version, my question is:
What can we expect from the Army Arc regarding adventure mode?
in your gdc 2016 talk, you showed off the creation myth generator that seemed to be a generally separate program from dwarf fortress proper (assumably to be reintegrated into df when myths starts development). would you be cool with sharing it for the community to get a taste of myths long before it comes out or would this fall under code being shared? i would personally just like to play around with it since worldbuildings fun but i can definitely see how it conflicts with the "no code sharing" policy.
Not entirely game related, but I've had this question living rent free in my head since the unfortunate and tragic death of Kentaro Miura, who left us with his unfinished magnum opus.
1. With the arrival of the Steam version and the ever growing list of to-be-added features in the Bay12 Development log, do you still feel like you'll be able to one day complete the game? Don't you feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of work it represents, or do you really think you have the time to polish it/finish it completely before... Well, anything unfortunate happens to you?
2. If you and Threetoe were to leave the game unfinished, who would take the lead and keep its development? Would you leave DF to the community like ID Software did with Doom? Or will someone else keep developing it, albeit, in a different form?
Don't interpret my questions as mean spirited, but this last decade has been chokeful of artists who left us or abandoned their work without finishing it, so the slow but steady development of DF sometimes worries me. Although don't worry, I have faith in the two of you.
What is the "shrouded history" mentioned in the prefstring of kobold bulbs?
Is there a matrix/spreadsheet screen planned that has skills in columns with rows being dwarves? Many city builders based on DF have this type of screen to quickly isolate/find which citizens are the best at things and it would help build initial militaries and finding the best gem setter in the fortress when needed.
Why are fluffy wamblers immune to fevers, despite vermin not getting affected by fevers in the first place?
Last December you answered you did not know what would happen with the ASCII intro animation going forward. Has its future been cleared out by now? If not, where does figuring it out land on the road map, roughly?
And also, has the title screen been finished?
With the map rewrite, will you be taking a stab at improved hydrology? Specifically I'm thinking of tides, oceans that don't freeze solid every night, and perhaps icebergs? Will geysers ever be a feature?
I have a question, mostly to do with things that would be beneficial for creating mods, not entirely sure how useful they'd be for normal gameplay though.
Are user-definable clothing items something that might be implemented ?
What I mean by this is... I have a modded beastman race, they have horns. I'd like to be able to create clothing (and/or jewellery) that they could wear on their horns. So, being able to define new bits of clothing with a token like[WORN_ON_BODY_PART:HORN], would be ideal for me.
Are you more decided on the issue of Adventure/ASCII mode making it in the initial Steam/itch.io release, or is that still up in the air?
For that matter, what about Legends mode? It was also included in point 5 of the roadmap, but as something closer to being finished, with only (?) the maps left to be done. Were those maps among the screens that were done this past month? It would be nice to be able to say ”Fortress and Legends modes, maybe Adventure and ASCII modes” instead of ”Fortress and maybe Legends, Adventure and ASCII modes” when people ask what’s coming in the (initial) Steam release.
Will there be changes to cart/track physics or build possibilities? e.g. Impulse ramps are a bug, but a wonderful one that'd be sad to lose without a replacement. Lots of current cart engineering relies on deep understanding of derailment and checkpoint effects. (Which has both good and bad aspects.) Will anything change mechanically?
1. Have the tutorials been finalised? Do they cover everything?
Are starting scenarios/goals incoming in the near or long term?
Does the Steam release include a new intro movie?
Will the Steam release include new music? If so, has the music been made yet?
Will the Steam release include any sound (even if it's just menu clicks or something)? If not, will there be plans to include sounds in the future?
Hey, I was told I could ask a specific science question in this thread if all else failed, so...
How is exhaustion from firing a crossbow calculated? I know it uses attributes but what's the exact equation for what gets added to the counter value?
Many thanks for bringing DF into the world and apologies for the minor derailment
1.Once bows and crossbows will get proper arcs, will modders have the option to keep the current firing lines for things like guns?
2.Will cage traps be nerfed before magic?
3.After the magic update, will there be more generic effects? As an example, could there be a spell that turns you into an animal and lets you pick which one?
4.I remember seeing a generated myth where the goblins were a cursed version of the dwarves. How exactly does that work?
What gameplay value does it add to have so many different kinds of stone, wood, vermin, gems, etc. when most of them are, for many practical purposes, exactly the same? How does this help to make the game more fun?
When the second villain release is complete, what will the requirements be for a dwarf that dreams of ruling the world to be recognized as their dream having been achieved?
Are the settings ThreeToe talked about in this devlog post the same as the ones in init.txt and d_init.txt, but with some more control over difficulty? Or will those settings have their own (in-game) menu?
When buying off Goblins with an Artifact, do original books count?
I can't remember if this has been asked before or not - but in regards to the music, is there gonna be support for situational music changes? I.e megabeast fight or siege in fort mode (maybe different tracks depending on the megabeast or sieging faction, same for adventure mode megabeast/night creature fights), fading out when shifting back to "peace" mode?
Are there any factors besides ethical differences that impact the size of a civ's armies and/or war frequency? I've been genning a large humans-only world with multiple civs of differing ethics and I've noticed there seems to be a lot less fighting than what the population of civilizations should lead to, and I wonder if there might be any factors that I'm missing.
Do undead peasants still show up in sieges? If not, why? If so, why dont they outnumber the actual soldiers considering necromancers probably shouldn’t be sending all soldiers when they’re primarily taking hamlets down.
Why do dragons take 1000 years to mature? They don’t typically survive that long in worldgen and actually breeding them in dwarf mode seems… slow. It just seems odd when compared to rocs 20 years to max size.
Are there any plans for minor raw changes before the steam update? Basically stuff like animal men into animal people. For clarity between a porcupine animal men man and a porcupine animal man woman as an example
Quote from: clinodevThere's a pretty good current reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/v0vsi1/necromancer_towers_should_be_nerfed/?depth=10) about problems with how necromancers work now.
As you're looking at difficulty options, what changes are planned for necromancers?Quote from: LuuBluumOn this specifically, would it be worthwhile to both make having any sort of undead affiliation (necromancer and undead both) more implicitly hostile to living entities, and also for living undead/necromancer-created monsters to better purge their preexisting affiliations to be more implicitly hostile? I definitely noticed in my campaigns way too many flavors of undead something-or-others milling about casually, which doesn't seem quite right.
A quick question about world-gen…
Why does the line that says “Forming lakes…” change to “Forming lakes and minerals…”? What is going on there? I’ve searched both the wiki and the forums, but I can’t seem to find an answer.
Quick question about the recent devlog
Maybe its too soon to say with the changes to nobles but: Regarding there are 2 types of nobles, [ELECTED] and [LAND_HOLDER] (occasionally a modded instance will mix the two) do [RULES_FROM_LOCATION] & [ELECTED] individuals such as mayors still count towards the caravan changes if you wanted a 'Republic' kind of fortress playstyle or wanted to stall nobles from appearing through conversing with the outpost liason.
Since below-ground farming was changed, will we also see some changes to aboveground farming in a similar vein?
On that same note, do you think there would be enough time to work in seasons for aboveground crops, to keep them on-par with the belowground ones?
I feel there will be/is a lot of questions this month, I hope I’m personally not overdoing it...
1. Can you assign non-wearable/non-carryable items to nobles, like furniture, and what happens then? Do they want them in their rooms, or is any deeper functionality left for a more thorough look at nobles at a later point in time (starting scenarios?).
2. Can you assign multiple items to the same position? Like a royal amulet and a royal scepter? Or is the idea that the item is a proof of identity, thereby making multiple items redundant/tricky to deal with?
What, exactly, is meant by “irritation” in the most recent devlog? At first, I read it as “irrigation” but then I noticed it was actually “irritation” and now I’m confused…
the latest devpost says that the Z-screen has been removed and replaced with a tooltip.
how are keyboard users going to access this information? i'm becoming increasingly worried that keyboard support is going to become a second-class citizen, with controls going unshown and features becoming outright unavailable without the use of a mouse.
on an arguably more positive note - is there an official link to the updated roadmap? it sounds like things are nearing completion.
What is presented publicly is that generated sites keep track of what they produce every week, such as milking or woodcrafting. I would like to know details of how this affects the world in general, but particularly:
- Items that adventurers are able to see and purchase in market stalls and shops of human towns, and trade depots of dwarven fortresses. Do those, and/or the existence of particular shops in general, get affected by such production?
- Caravans received in Fortress Mode. Are the products of those relevant civs generated spontaneously based on player need, or resource production and availability of the civilization sending merchants?
- Do those weekly production cycles continue post world-generation? For this question, that includes the 2 weeks between embarks/adventures, during Fortress Mode, and during Adventure Mode?
I imagine a "No" answer to mean that the items that exist at the end of world generation are all that will ever exist in Adventure Mode - that clearing a Mead Hall of items, then playing 10 years of a fortress, then returning to that Mead Hall in a new adventurer would still result in an empty Mead Hall.
For some reason, this loop of world generation regarding production and trade is something that has been keeping me thinking. If you wish to provide those details, it would mean a lot to learn how it works behind the hood, and what the consequences are for the rest of the game post-generation.
Several months ago I asked a question about a tile flag check for adventure mode and got a reply:QuoteIn adventure mode, the visible tile flag is the 5th bit. It cohabitates with some of the dwarf mode digging stuff to save room. Since I think the dwarf hidden flag might be if you ever saw it, not if you currently see it, where a new flag was needed.
Would you mind sharing what any of the other overlapping flags are?
Quote from: Eric Blankso from the 5/30 devlog, if I'm reading it correctly it sounds like there are now settings to explicitly control forgotten beast attacks and what sounds like animal man tribe attacks. Are animal man tribes going to attack in an ambusher style raids, and if so, what are their objectives? To steal items, kill dwarves, or annihilate our fort?
Like goblin sieges, can their demands be satisfied?
And on the topic of goblin sieges, does the new artifact demand happen every time or will they give up on making demands and just attack you after a while?Quote from: FantasticDorfQuestion in a similar vein: 1) Will animal-tribe irritables defined by [LAYER_LINKED] have any soft supportive additions to make them more than a enviromental hazard (maybe even playable on the level of a normal civ)?
2)'ly is the irritation global amongst all underground dwellers, or will the player be taking the Ire of a particular group.
Currently [SUBTERREANEAN LINKED] has mixed pro's & cons, (free layer animals, nobody knows who you are, not even yourself since you're not a civ), I can imagine once the update comes in, modders might want to upgrade the tribe people to less primitive forms (and attempt to emulate them). Its definitely appealing, as the only otherwise thematic entrance of underground dwellers currently appears by a disaster, which is workable for modding means but not always optimal.
Currently we are leaning toward a graphical Fort mode release - the community votes went solidly that way (about 2:1 as I recall), and the money situation is now slightly worrying though probably okay. It seems like a first good fort release then doing followups would be prudent and what people want us to do. As people know, I'm a big adv mode proponent (it's slowly becoming what the original draglay/armok were shooting for), but I don't think doing a series of releases will hurt anything, and fort mode is plenty of game. It's just a little weird to not have it there to start, for Boatmurdered etc. purposes.Glad to see advmode is becoming what armok 1 was suppose to be, though kinda wonder how is the whole mouse changes with fort mode going to relate to adv mode? I know there some mouse control in the adventure mode's item crafting menus in the current build but like is the idea also to do away with keyboard controls also there? or is Adv mode going to have a mouse and keyboard set up like I can see some stuff that could be done with mouse like the painting and drawing designations but only mouse feels like it could lead to a different set of wrist and hand issues than the repeated keystrokes caused. like I'm down for more accessibility options with the mouse but I feel like removing keyboard controls would bring up a different set of accessibility issues.
-snip-
This may be the case. For instance, there are no keyboard cursors right now. People generally wanted 50 keypresses to be replaced by a few mouse clicks, and I don't think there were any general proponents of the keyboard in this case. There are some specific concerns, like with macros and stuff, but those would probably be better replaced by interactive blueprints etc. as in Factorio and etc. I'm all for hotkeys of course, and being able to pull up various information and get things selected quickly with the keyboard, but I've been leaning against replacement cursors and haven't heard a case for them. I've never seen a similar modern game use keyboard cursors, because it requires so many keypresses, something people have hated and mocked about DF for many years. And once we admit the mouse at all, wealth display being a hover etc. isn't a concern (although arguably it works as a hotkey for speed purposes.) But perhaps mouse use is a barrier generally for you - I haven't really heard from the keyboard-only side since they were the only side we'd been supporting to this point.
:I've been pestering you about keyboard support for years, and have ceased posting as I saw the keyboard support dropping coming, with halfhearted assurances that it would be kept as signs that it wouldn't, which this confirms, and Mouse Fortress is of no interest to me.Quote from: Suthe latest devpost says that the Z-screen has been removed and replaced with a tooltip.
how are keyboard users going to access this information? i'm becoming increasingly worried that keyboard support is going to become a second-class citizen, with controls going unshown and features becoming outright unavailable without the use of a mouse.
on an arguably more positive note - is there an official link to the updated roadmap? it sounds like things are nearing completion.
This may be the case. For instance, there are no keyboard cursors right now. People generally wanted 50 keypresses to be replaced by a few mouse clicks, and I don't think there were any general proponents of the keyboard in this case. There are some specific concerns, like with macros and stuff, but those would probably be better replaced by interactive blueprints etc. as in Factorio and etc. I'm all for hotkeys of course, and being able to pull up various information and get things selected quickly with the keyboard, but I've been leaning against replacement cursors and haven't heard a case for them. I've never seen a similar modern game use keyboard cursors, because it requires so many keypresses, something people have hated and mocked about DF for many years. And once we admit the mouse at all, wealth display being a hover etc. isn't a concern (although arguably it works as a hotkey for speed purposes.) But perhaps mouse use is a barrier generally for you - I haven't really heard from the keyboard-only side since they were the only side we'd been supporting to this point.
We haven't been updating a roadmap - it's just that one news post ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=174112.msg8354566#msg8354566 ). And we've only just gotten through the first part, with the big question being whether we first release after Stage 3 or 4 or 5 or 6.
:
Does breaking into the caverns still essentially destroy your FPS? I remember the game losing a ton of FPS back in the day if you broke into them, and it was one of the reasons you didn't want to do that. Has this already been mitigated, and I am so stuck in my old ways that I never realized it? Will the steam release include performances fixes for these sorts of common FPS losses?
Does breaking into the caverns still essentially destroy your FPS? I remember the game losing a ton of FPS back in the day if you broke into them, and it was one of the reasons you didn't want to do that. Has this already been mitigated, and I am so stuck in my old ways that I never realized it? Will the steam release include performances fixes for these sorts of common FPS losses?
use lime green to get toady's attention if this question is meant for him =]
i i break into the caverns in almost every fort eventually and haven't noticed any significant drop in fps, but that might just be me not paying enough attention.
On to an actual question:
The information provided about being able to change the difficulty settings (encounter triggers, wealth, etc.) on embark made me curious about two distinct things. The first was the changing of these setting during an active fort without having to go to save files. Even if this required the game to save, quit, relaunch, and reload, this would be a fantastic storytelling tool, one that is already heavily used by many DF storytellers.
Im not as perturbed by mouse support, or lack of keyboard support. Ill make my mind up on the systems closer to release on whether they suit me personally, but singularly a concern i will say is that consistent fotressmode game-speed might make mouse scrolling too slow to react to fast paced events such as asformentioned difficulty spikes from combat, werebeasts/(necromancer ghouls) etc without leaning on excessive amounts of pausing to take time to finely analyze what to do next.
[...]
From recent private correspondence, many settings that are currently tucked away in text files, and the init settings specifically, are already included in internal menus, and changes made in those menus go into effect immediately, "[j]ust like any modern game pretty much".
- Making DF into a clone of the clones of DF doesn't seem to be a good way to stand out.
I'm totally on board with the UI changes Toady. I hope you don't sacrifice improvements or delay development even longer trying to make dual systems because a few people are scared of changes. If the mouse controls are good people will get over it quickly, and I trust Zach when he says things are getting easier.
Will both version of the game receive the same updates other than graphics/UI/mouse support stuff?That's the plan:
Dwarf Fortress Classic is not changing. It’ll be updated alongside the new premium versions, just without the new art, music, and Steam Workshop support.
I know this may be a question that's been answered in ancient times, but Toady discussing wanting to provide us with more incentive to break into the cavern layers made me realize I don't think I ever broke into them more than once or twice since they were introduced a million years ago, and I always add extra normal layers to the map before the caverns can spawn.
Does breaking into the caverns still essentially destroy your FPS? I remember the game losing a ton of FPS back in the day if you broke into them, and it was one of the reasons you didn't want to do that. Has this already been mitigated, and I am so stuck in my old ways that I never realized it? Will the steam release include performances fixes for these sorts of common FPS losses?
I profiled Dwarf Fortress and found something that was, in long-term worldgen, asymptotically dominating the CPU time spent. I zapped that part of the game's assembly code (this is not advisable) and found that it was causing some specific errors in the errorlog:Code: [Select]MOUNTAIN trying to generate musical form without speech or instruments
At this point I just contacted the Toady One to see if he had any insight. He suggested removing all artforms from the raws (to be exact, the entity tokens allowing them to be generated) and, yeah, that caused a speedup. Seems he figured out the rest, nice.
Impoverished Word Selector
PLAINS trying to generate musical form without speech or instruments
Impoverished Word Selector
Impoverished Word Selector
EVIL trying to generate musical form without speech or instruments
Impoverished Word Selector
EVIL trying to generate musical form without speech or instruments
Impoverished Word Selector
MOUNTAIN trying to generate musical form without speech or instruments****
How is the sharpness value of an item that gets made calculated? Are artifacts special cases?I can actually answer this one - sharpness ranges from 50% to 100% of the material's [MAX_EDGE] based on the item quality (i.e. 50% for base-quality, 60% for well-crafted, 70% for fine, 80% for superior, 90% for exceptional, 100% for masterwork).
What makes crossbows such a bad melee weapon? (gave a steel one to a bronze colossus and they only bruised their victims to death yikes that’s ineffective)The huge contact area for the blunt attack of a crossbow - 10,000 vs a war hammer at 10 or a mace at 20 - it's no better than hitting them with a light weight stick. The low mass and slow speed don't help any.
The huge contact area for the blunt attack of a crossbow - 10,000 vs a war hammer at 10 or a mace at 20 - it's no better than hitting them with a light weight stick. The low mass and slow speed don't help any.
Will there ever be Randomly generated Martial Arts? Will dwarven children ever play-spar with each other and get combat experience?
Will there ever be Randomly generated Martial Arts? Will dwarven children ever play-spar with each other and get combat experience?
Q: Regarding the groundwork of "religious hunting orders", will they avoid forming in the death religion* or will a alternative explanation like ethical legality on necromancy/nightcreatures be introduced to motivate their behaviours?
- Since the main proprietor of give & take for slabs (creating devoted followers who raise & destroy the undead) is the god itself as the source. Seems good for making bodies, but not for a clear view of what the sphere would now represent.
1.Right now necromancers can attack your fort at any time if you are close enough. Is that intentional?
2.What changes to traps can we expect before magic?
3.Will mothers stop bringing their babies to battle in the near future?
4.Do you plan to implement proper civil wars, and if yes, when would that be?
Last, the most important question:
How's Scamps doing? What's he up to?
Last, the most important question:
How's Scamps doing? What's he up to?
Just discovered myself - the junior Linux programmer got lymphoma'd off the team, as unfortunate as it is.
Have you considered getting another cat? I’d suggest going to an animal shelter. Also, I’d suggest letting the cat choose you, instead of you choosing the cat…
In the recent update it said, people tend to worship frequent attackers of the same kind. Is this where it ends, or does/can it go further?
like i.e. a contract involving sacrifice of humans or cattle in exchange for peace/protection or something?
In the recent update it said, people tend to worship frequent attackers of the same kind. Is this where it ends, or does/can it go further?None of the megabeasts are intelligent, so there is no way to negotiate with them. It attacks were caused by them being hungry, a "sacrifice" in the form or cattle (or captured invaders) could sate their appetite for the time being, but they're currently not driven by hunger (and if you provide animals with easy food you have a decent chance to entice them to return for more anyway).
like i.e. a contract involving sacrifice of humans or cattle in exchange for peace/protection or something?
None of the megabeasts are intelligent, so there is no way to negotiate with them.
Yes, (some?) semi megabeasts are intelligent (and I think some of them are even fully intelligent), but they're not megabeasts.I think all 4(unless there's another semi-megabeast I'm forgetting) semi-megabeasts are fully intelligent and with persuasion in adv mode you could get them to join a site, even a player's fort (with a bunch of luck depending on how you tackle this task).
The dump zone is far to valuable to be wasted on dumping garbage, when it's needed for e.g. the stripping of prisoners.
Suggestions for the improvement of the Dump functionality:
- Allow dump zones to use stockpile filters so they only receive certain types of items. That would allow you to have more than one zone active at a time and still get items dumped in the intended location.
@SammyLiimex: As far as I understand that's the result of dwarves on assignment being removed from the fortress and re-introduced when they return rather than remain as fortress members while away (like inbound caravan members are in the data structures but not visible until they actually enter the map). Past reports have not indicated the approach has been changed when bugs have been addressed.
I'm curious - wasn't the original purpose of Corpse stockpiles (originally Graveyard stockpiles) to only accept buriable corpses while everything else would go to Refuse stockpiles? It looks like that changed at some point, and I'm not sure I understand why.
Suggestion for an improvement of the Corpse stockpile functionality:
Add a setting to allow you to dedicate the stockpile for corpses that can be buried vs. corpses that can't. Invader corpses need to be disposed of, while you want to ensure your citizens aren't dumped into the incinerator/garbage compactor. Optionally a category for corpses that can be buried but won't be raised as ghosts if they aren't.
I'm curious - wasn't the original purpose of Corpse stockpiles (originally Graveyard stockpiles) to only accept buriable corpses while everything else would go to Refuse stockpiles? It looks like that changed at some point, and I'm not sure I understand why.
Suggestion for an improvement of the Corpse stockpile functionality:
Add a setting to allow you to dedicate the stockpile for corpses that can be buried vs. corpses that can't. Invader corpses need to be disposed of, while you want to ensure your citizens aren't dumped into the incinerator/garbage compactor. Optionally a category for corpses that can be buried but won't be raised as ghosts if they aren't.
Farm plots aren't as easy to misplace, since there are usually only a few layers where they can logically be set down, but it's nice to have an overview of what's currently growing and ready to harvest.
Also played around with farming to shake up some patterns. Farming in the shallow soil layers far above the caverns is now no longer as viable, and farming in the cavern layers is as rich as usual.
Since 47.05, I have been unable to generate worlds with the classic evil biomes.
don't get me wrong, goo rain and dust are both deserving of an evil embark.
but I miss the challenge of dealing with all the nasties that came with certain biomes.
Stuff like roaming undead animals and flying hungry heads that scour the earth hunting anything living.
did you remove standard evil areas intentionally?
Since 47.05, I have been unable to generate worlds with the classic evil biomes.
don't get me wrong, goo rain and dust are both deserving of an evil embark.
but I miss the challenge of dealing with all the nasties that came with certain biomes.
Stuff like roaming undead animals and flying hungry heads that scour the earth hunting anything living.
did you remove standard evil areas intentionally?
Procedural races would probably have procedurally generated technologies
Actually, my spoiler comment above reminds me
...
I wouldn't mind assigning all of my animal dissector migrants to power a fort's machinery, as this facilitate a use for these dwarves. Perhaps even a giant hamster (tame), if such a thing were possible. Apologies if this is more line with a suggestion, but this has actually confused me for a while.
I don't see why someone couldn't pretent pumps are treadmills and have those migrants pump water through some water wheels to generate power for the machinery.
If I remember correctly, when talking about the myths&magic update, you mentioned procedurally generated races and worlds that may not include dwarfs. Does that mean that fortress mode will be expanded to make all civilizations playable regardless of what race they are? Are there going to be mechanical or technological differences between different races and civilizations?
One [stumbling block for playing as non-dwarfs] would be just the overall framing story, like we probably don't want the mountain homes of the humans like sending you a liaison that requests that you uplift a baron, in like the same way and stuff, right? So there'd be certain restructuring and the current thinking on that had been to do that with the Embark Scenarios. To kind of think about why you're there and then that would be more structurable. Of course that would come after the Myth & Magic release, and this is kind of the big point on that is that with the Myth & Magic release you set those weird sliders over to have non dwarf play because you're playing a like three legged mollusk. Then, I mean, human town mode seems attainable when you've know done three legged mollusk mode. Of course three legged mollusk mode comes before the Embark Scenarios in this timeline, so you'd still have some kind of like output liaison scenario probably with your three-legged mollusks. So it's one of these things that we're approaching in this modular fashion.
The game searches the world for an optimal tutorial location - forested, brook, pretty flat, shallow metals, if it can get all this - and plops you down there after a short animation.
In the 06/06/2022 DevLog, you talk about tutorial site selection.
With all that in mind, are you considering expanding the site selection search for Premium, at least for tutorial embarks? It seems like a low-effort, high return change, and would act as more of a difficulty lever than many other changes. Searching for sedimentary layers would produce a far higher chance of good sites, for instance, than "shallow metals".
You can render with the minutest bit of modding,
In-universe explanations may still be on the table though for player usability without merging the embark-assistant tool right in, like pre-established geologic surveys which you pay a small fee of your embark money to have a contracted embark geologist dig a pre-dug hole for you and issue a report[...].
You can render with the minutest bit of modding,
Hopefully most people will play their first tutorial embark in a vanilla world, at least! :)
Does breaking into the caverns still essentially destroy your FPS? I remember the game losing a ton of FPS back in the day if you broke into them, and it was one of the reasons you didn't want to do that. Has this already been mitigated, and I am so stuck in my old ways that I never realized it? Will the steam release include performances fixes for these sorts of common FPS losses?
The information provided about being able to change the difficulty settings (encounter triggers, wealth, etc.) on embark made me curious about two distinct things. The first was the changing of these setting during an active fort without having to go to save files. Even if this required the game to save, quit, relaunch, and reload, this would be a fantastic storytelling tool, one that is already heavily used by many DF storytellers.
My second thought/question extends on from the first... In the future, could we see these variabes being modified dynamically in the game itself?
This is slightly complex to explain the use-cases of, but I'll try to be conciese...
Certain collections of modifiers could be made and defined as 'Periods'. A 'Period of Peace' might start when there are no wars and most factions have good relations. This period would slightly nudge the conflict rate down by modifying the settings approapriately. Similarly, if relations between many factions are bad, but haven't yet resulted in war, a 'Period of Tension' might occur, which raises the likelyhood of certain kinds of hostilities, reduces the elf-enforced tree-cutting limit, theives are more common, etc. Finally, to continue the example, a 'Period of Conflict' might start when a large number of wars break out, or a lot of sites are conquered, increasing the likelyhood of raids, seiges, and other threats, before things eventually settle down again.
This could later be tied into the economics, job assignments and other systems, so that these things also vary, such as having more guards during a 'Period of Tension' and harsher prison sentances, and weapons and armor being in high demand during a 'Period of Conflict', making them more valuable as trade goods.
Obviously, this is a big, long term kind of thing that would need to be strong enough to be noticable, but also not so strong that it derails things too often. Balancing would be a nightmare.
I'm curious if this kind of abstracted mood or relations layer is something that you have considered, or your thoughts on it more generally?
More questions about the irritation mechanic: 1) Is it a behaviour attached to a token on a creature (such as all or some giant animals through CV's) or a always present enviromental hazard?
2) And does it apply to the naked wildnerness animalpeople as we know it already? (though i would be suprised if animalpeople aboveground were united into their own civ-group alongside subterrenean people given the extreme variety, much least that'd mean a expansion of the entity file, or some hardcoded function)
I dont want to get the idea that a sudden stampede of irritated rhinos can be misinterpreted as a pseudo-siege, but there is getting a slight perceptive disparity over what 'irritation' means and its participants with your ostrich example of mundane animals as a overall mechanic. But maybe im just overthinking it.
With the internal menus for the settings coming, will we still be able to change the settings in d_init.txt, init.txt and other such files? I'm personally more comfortable with editing the settings with a text editor, so I'm curious to know if this option will still be available.
Will both version of the game receive the same updates other than graphics/UI/mouse support stuff?
Does the premium version have tools like this? For example, if I can designate a bedroom, then copy and paste it a few times, then that will be faster than even the keyboard controls currently are. Once they are dug out, can I then place all the room's furniture I need, then copy and paste those into the other bedrooms? I don't want you to actually just become a clone of other games, but all these other games have these Quality of Life features for a reason.
Are there any plans for updating stockpile settings to either:
Allow stockpile priorities (Important/High/Medium/Low, defaults to Medium for example) - similar to Rimworld and other games
Change Allow stockpiles from both give/take from either linked or any, to allowing individual link/any options for either give or take? Ex: Main storage stockpile is set to take/give from all, and it is linked to give to bar stockpile #1. Workshops and such wouldn't be prohibited from taking from the main storage stockpile without a link to the main stockpile.
I bring up #1 because having a low priority central general stockpile has obvious benefits, allowing you to set up more targeted higher priority stockpiles elsewhere. It would make sense for stockpile links to override priority settings.
If option #1 is not viable, then I bring up #2 because it would be useful to have a central general stockpile, and occasionally link new more targeted stockpile to it somewhere else without limiting everything else from taking from the central general stockpile. At the moment once you've introduced one linked stockpile, you're essentially forced to establish links to every workshop or other stockpile that would have otherwise had access to the central general stockpile, making it an all or nothing choice which can cost someone a lot of time depending on the amount of workshops that might use that central general stockpile.
I think this is an area of opportunity that would benefit from some type of polish for new future users.
Will it be possible to turn off tooltips?
Quote from: voliolWhat was the nature of the bug tipped by Putnam?
Will the fix have a visible footprint on the in-game cultures? I.e. will there be fewer/more books in a given world, or some properties of the former being rarer/more common?Quote from: Eric BlankDoes this book change imply authors in WG will spend less time reading books, or less time writing books about books? Necromancer towers can often contain books about the writing of a book that details the history of a book, which is a rebuttal of a book, about the author, all by the same author. Could really do with some books on what they think the meaning of life and death is or magical theory something, though that's more for myth and magic update.
With the impoverished word selector, are we looking at additions to the vocabulary and symbols lists again, or a workaround that let's them choose off-topic vocabulary?
And do you/Kitfox have a plan to deal with Steam mods that might contain adult content, like the words you removed some time ago, "nude" mods, cow woman milking, manure etc (you know it's going to happen)
Are blade scabbards planned for the future, and if so, would they be able to go on one's hip/waist? (More realistic (for longer weapons at least) than on upper body.)
To clarify regarding designations; does this mean that a mouse only or wasd+mouse designation method will be the default, with the traditional keyboard-only approach having a way to be enabled for players who prefer that method?
How are you holding up given what is probably a lot of stress? Do you worry that the game will not be recieved well? Are you drinking enough water?
Will we be able to click and drag round and rectangular shapes for constructions/designations, à la mspaint?
Is there are reason you're not doing pre-sales to boost your income for the time being?
Will cooking plants ever drop seeds?
Do you have any plans for logs themselves to wear out over the centuries, and if so, would that include constructed buildings? Would we have to do dwarven demolition of old surface buildings?
How come there's such a limited selection of creature tags you can put on a syndrome with CE_ADD_TAG?
Have you ever considered adding config options for features like unretiring breaking forts and such?
There was some mentions of the Z-status screen changing earlier, which reminded me of some not so DF related things I've been wanting to ask:
Did you possibly intentionally (or subconsciously) choose the z-key for the status screen because it was used in the Ultima series (Ztats) and, I think, some other old crpgs?
Speaking of Ultima, you've mentioned they've influenced you in world building, so my next question:
Do you have a favorite Ultima game or which one influenced you the most?
Is there going to be a more user friendly animal stocks page? I would like to be able to sort them by name, type, etc; but in the current DF version, they are all in a giant list by join date, which is kind of pointless and hard to figure out what you have.
I was in the object testing arena playing around with melee ranged hybrids and i ran into some issues, but it got me thinking (the issue was there are no quivers in there but anyway)
Will the object testing arena be in the first release?
As an extension, will i be able to make and save presets (grand master axedwarf with all relevant skills and full armor as an example) itd make repeated testing nice, one 5v5 can be misleading
When a dwarf has a crossbow they try to stay back, when they have a melee weapon they tend to rush the enemy, how do they behave when they have both?
What makes crossbows such a bad melee weapon? (gave a steel one to a bronze colossus and they only bruised their victims to death yikes that’s ineffective)
Ive seen dwarves parry arrows, how good are they at it at comparative skill levels when compared to a shield
Will there ever be Randomly generated Martial Arts? Will dwarven children ever play-spar with each other and get combat experience?
Have the artists recovered enough of the art to do a showcase video any time soon? I found those were both very enjoyable and gave a clear image of how the GUI worked in practice.
Q: Regarding the groundwork of "religious hunting orders", will they avoid forming in the death religion* or will a alternative explanation like ethical legality on necromancy/nightcreatures be introduced to motivate their behaviours?
Since the main proprietor of give & take for slabs (creating devoted followers who raise & destroy the undead) is the god itself as the source. Seems good for making bodies, but not for a clear view of what the sphere would now represent.
1.Right now necromancers can attack your fort at any time if you are close enough. Is that intentional?
2.What changes to traps can we expect before magic?
3.Will mothers stop bringing their babies to battle in the near future?
4.Do you plan to implement proper civil wars, and if yes, when would that be?
So the question is: have you ever thought of playing as an intelligent magical artifact?
In the recent update it said, people tend to worship frequent attackers of the same kind. Is this where it ends, or does/can it go further?
like i.e. a contract involving sacrifice of humans or cattle in exchange for peace/protection or something?
Does this new version address the super annoying issue of all military dwarves losing their assigned rooms every time you send them on a mission?
would it be possible within the next version to define megabeast worshipping religions on entity.txt? Or are they entirely by design w.g circumstantial?
Are the changes to farming depth based, or specifically surface soil and cavern based?
Have there been changes to farming that make irrigated stone plots on arbitrary levels less effective?
Encouraging players to dig a little deeper is lovely, but not at the expense of the Deep Plots that provide for the Dwarven Wine drank by the master smiths working at magma forges just above the lowest levels, when they take their rest.
In this general context, I've also been askedby dirty hill dwarves:
Will the changes will make actual outdoor plant surface farming less effective?
don't get me wrong, goo rain and dust are both deserving of an evil embark.
but I miss the challenge of dealing with all the nasties that came with certain biomes.
Stuff like roaming undead animals and flying hungry heads that scour the earth hunting anything living.
did you remove standard evil areas intentionally?
On the topic; with the changes being made to sustainability away from shallower layers to "more rich" farmland beneath what are your thoughts on the current state of cavern wildlife, and are we likely to see any biome alterations/isolated spheres in the caverns for the next version?
Are there any plans to improve the state of Dwarven recidivism in game? I see there are changes being made to the current stress system, will any of these improve matters?
A dwarf that gets thrown in prison for starting fights will likely only get worse while in prison, no matter how crazy expensive ritzy you make said prison.
If I remember correctly, when talking about the myths&magic update, you mentioned procedurally generated races and worlds that may not include dwarfs. Does that mean that fortress mode will be expanded to make all civilizations playable regardless of what race they are? Are there going to be mechanical or technological differences between different races and civilizations?
We have pump screws which convert dwarves labor into power for the sole purposes of pumping fluids, but why don't have a device for converting dwarves labor into power in general, like a treadmill?
With all that in mind, are you considering expanding the site selection search for Premium? It seems like a low-effort, high return change, and would act as more of a difficulty lever than many other changes. Searching for sedimentary layers [edit: or really much better, particular metals and minerals] would produce a far higher chance of good sites, for instance, than "shallow metals".
have you considered asking the "Do you want to do a tutorial?" question at the beginning of worldgen and locking the default "tutorial" experience to reasonable settings like "small" and "short"? This would go a long way towards discouraging the standard new player impulse to say, "I have a decent computer, let's choose Large and Very Long, heck, all max settings!" which leads to frustratingly long worldgens [Edit: and necromancer death worlds, and so on].
Though DFhack is obviously seperate, what do you think of the filtered polled data in parallel to your current work on the steam release?
Yeah, FantasticDorf is correct, though I've already forgotten the details. I don't remember specifically why regular zombies/evil creatures etc. were a casualty of this, or if they exist anywhere outside of demon/necro/mummy influence zones. We moved the nightmare stuff to certain of them, but of course that doesn't really come up in the fort (we could have bogeyman in those regions attack isolated dwarves sometimes and just ignore the day/night part of it if we were cruel I suppose.)
Although as you've mentioned in your most recent response, the hill dwarves could have gathered the "improved" soil from the mountainhome. That's my headcanon for now, at least.
How would that work anyway, if you were to add a soil gathering zone? Since soil is a material and is the same regardless of depth, plus cavern floors are currently just rock overlaid with mud. Would the rock/mud gathered from a cavern have a special flag for plot improvement use?
This is what my family used our sow for, and she was very effective. The chickens help keep the insect pests down but they'll uproot your plants to do it. Pig feces is so good plants will grow in it which the pig ate. She ate a squash and grew her own squash plant and then ate the squash it grew.
Perhaps we'll discover pigs and poultry will convert muddied stone into cavern floors. Pigs in particular were iron age cultivator's champions, widely used to clear small plots for horticulture. They'll uproot and "plow" a plot of woodland, clearing tangled briars, digging up rocks, toppling saplings, and small trees, preparing the soil while providing fertilization and soil aeration. Irish small tenants and cottiers were still using the method in the 19th and into the 20th century. They'd finish digging what they reasonably could of potatoes and other edible roots, then turn the pigs into last years plot, anplant the pig's old yard. Poultry will clean up a lot of what pigs miss.
1. When will the development page on the dwarf fortress site be updated.
2 how quickly is progress going on premium and any time frame for it
Also I’m having trouble changing this to lime green
Will steam version have the option to display water depth as 1-7? Not necessarily numbers but at least different tile image?It does! There's been numerous devlogs showing this off.
Oh, and I've also noticed many bandit forts being continually declared war on by random civilizations, why is this? Is this to cull bandit populations? Because as far as I can tell it doesnt have a major effect on fort populations and instead results in clutter in legends mode with the 1991th pillaging of a random bandit fort being noted.
I usually turn bandits off by setting to 0 on the entity file so more mercs can move in with more world impact (just being hired out is legendsmode contributive for battle etc), but overall bandits are pretty shabby and one more reason i never got as deep into adventuremode because it hampers the scripting side of the roguelike mode, and break the quests they're involved with (some random kobolds for instance in my most major ragequit for adventuremode invalidated the quest by colonizing the town somehow and making it unfufillable to drive the probably outcast refugee bandits away, i never go into adventuremode other than to firstperson goof around really.)This bug is one of my biggest pet peeves, so I'm glad to hear there's a workaround.
I'd expect the technology cut-off to remain at about 1400 even if technology is procedural. That would mean electricity is out of the question, but magic opens a completely different can of arcane worms.
"The Baghdad Battery is the name given to a set of three artifacts which were found together: a ceramic pot, a tube of copper, and a rod of iron. It was discovered in present-day Khujut Rabu, Iraq, close to the metropolis of Ctesiphon, the capital of the Parthian (150 BC – 223 AD) and Sasanian (224–650 AD) empires, and it is believed to date from either of these periods."
Yes, and steam powered toys existed in ancient times as well. However, neither of these were actually applied.I'd expect the technology cut-off to remain at about 1400 even if technology is procedural. That would mean electricity is out of the question, but magic opens a completely different can of arcane worms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_BatteryQuote"The Baghdad Battery is the name given to a set of three artifacts which were found together: a ceramic pot, a tube of copper, and a rod of iron. It was discovered in present-day Khujut Rabu, Iraq, close to the metropolis of Ctesiphon, the capital of the Parthian (150 BC – 223 AD) and Sasanian (224–650 AD) empires, and it is believed to date from either of these periods."
BACK WITH A FRESH BATCH OF QUESTIONS
1. You often mention the famous "Map Rewrite" that will happen... Soon-ish? And although with a name as foreboding as that, it must be very important to the game, what exactly is there to rewrite? What will the map rewrite do/change regarding map/world generation? What will it mean for modders?
2. Regarding culture; symbols and colors don't have the same meaning depending on the culture. For example the color black in Europe is attached to death and grieviances, whereas in China, it usually associated with prosperity and good health. Are there any plans to add cultural differences in DF?
3. Regarding Technology; every civilization seem to have access to the same level of technology no matter what age it is or how far in time the game takes in place. This means that even at the dawn of dwarfkind, they already figured out how to make wacky contraptions, but ten thousand years later, goblins still haven't put one and two together and figured out how to make drawbridges. Do you have any plans regarding technology evolving with time?
BTW, Blind, if you're reading this, it's pronounced "FEE-KEE-LEE-LEE"
1. You often mention the famous "Map Rewrite" that will happen... Soon-ish? And although with a name as foreboding as that, it must be very important to the game, what exactly is there to rewrite? What will the map rewrite do/change regarding map/world generation? What will it mean for modders?
2. Regarding culture; symbols and colors don't have the same meaning depending on the culture. For example the color black in Europe is attached to death and grieviances, whereas in China, it usually associated with prosperity and good health. Are there any plans to add cultural differences in DF?
3. Regarding Technology; every civilization seem to have access to the same level of technology no matter what age it is or how far in time the game takes in place. This means that even at the dawn of dwarfkind, they already figured out how to make wacky contraptions, but ten thousand years later, goblins still haven't put one and two together and figured out how to make drawbridges. Do you have any plans regarding technology evolving with time?
I'd expect the technology cut-off to remain at about 1400 even if technology is procedural. That would mean electricity is out of the question, but magic opens a completely different can of arcane worms.
Note that a lot of things the rewrite will support won't actually be implemented until much later, in later arcs. Portals, when they are implemented, will start with one way portals where stuff just appear on the player side, with no access to or view of the other side, for instance.
When asked whether the Big Wait could be split up into a Map Rewrite and a Myth & Magic phase a number of years ago, Toady didn't see any point in it.
"I have a few questions related to world generation, which turned out longer than I anticipated. Apologies in advance for being so wordy!
As I understand, the prevailing winds are based on the real-life Polar, Ferrel, and Hadley circulation cells, but are they generated to match the pole(s) of the world? Could there be a world generation option to set prevailing winds to be homogeneous across the whole map? Something like the existing option to set a north pole, south pole, both, or neither, but have options for the wind to come mostly from the north, northeast, east, and so on.
What scale do the temperature settings use in the advanced worldgen options? I've heard that the bug with pole-less worlds having extremely hot ""temperate"" biomes is already a known issue, and I know that the actual temperature is affected by rainfall and elevation, but I'm curious what the scale is supposed to be since it doesn't seem to match the ""degrees Urist"" used elsewhere in-game.
Also related to temperature, any rough idea of when we might get more fine-grained distinctions than ""temperate"" and ""tropical""? Maybe even have yearly minimum and maximum temperature values for each region, and have each plant and animal have its own tolerances? At the very least it would be nice to have ""subtropical"" biomes so that we don't have koalas in subarctic climates.
I love that in this game you can generate a world with a very realistic distance/area scale if you have no poles and set a very narrow temperature range. However, there are a few problems that arise when trying to make it as realistic as possible (so as to avoid questions about the geometry and scale of a whole planet the size of even a large DF world, and for the fun of recreating real-life locations), which is why I asked about the wind directions and temperature issues, and my last question is about the vertical scaling.
While it's possible to realistically recreate real places at a 1:1 scale horizontally (a Large DF world is nearly 395000 metres across and could fit Tasmania), you have to either flatten the real elevation range to fit in into DF's 400 2.8m z-levels, or find an area where any salt water is less than 278m deep and the highest elevation above sea level is 840m, and deal with the awkwardness of having the ""mountain"" biome anywhere that's more than 560m above sea level even if there's no big difference in biome IRL. (For reference, Mount Everest is about 9000m above sea level and Challenger Deep is about 11000m below it, or about 3200 and 4000 z-levels respectively.) So basically what I'm asking here is how doable it would be to have deeper oceans and taller mountains. Having a larger world volume to simulate would be a performance issue, but could the map have the same number of z-levels everywhere and have them offset depending on the elevation of the region or something? Isn't that how it already works?"
- Support for portals connecting non adjacent parts of the map to each other, both on the same map and to different maps. This can also support maps that wrap around (moving over the edge to the west causes you to enter the east edge of the map, resulting in a cylindrical world, or even wrap around north to south as well as east to west, resulting in a shape that doesn't exist in the real world).Technically, that shape does exist in the real world, at least sort of - it's a torus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus), more commonly recognized as a Donut.
That's true, but i think they may have meant that it's not a real planetary shape.- Support for portals connecting non adjacent parts of the map to each other, both on the same map and to different maps. This can also support maps that wrap around (moving over the edge to the west causes you to enter the east edge of the map, resulting in a cylindrical world, or even wrap around north to south as well as east to west, resulting in a shape that doesn't exist in the real world).Technically, that shape does exist in the real world, at least sort of - it's a torus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus), more commonly recognized as a Donut.
Technically toruses are bigger in the outer diameter than the inner and are curved, which does not happen with north and south being linked like this. A triangle's angles on a torus does not add up to 180 degrees.- Support for portals connecting non adjacent parts of the map to each other, both on the same map and to different maps. This can also support maps that wrap around (moving over the edge to the west causes you to enter the east edge of the map, resulting in a cylindrical world, or even wrap around north to south as well as east to west, resulting in a shape that doesn't exist in the real world).Technically, that shape does exist in the real world, at least sort of - it's a torus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus), more commonly recognized as a Donut.
Which version of C++ is Dwarf Fortress written in?It's been 20 years in the making ... so ... all of them.
DF is some combination of C and C++, not in some kind of standard obeying way, but sort of a mess that’s accreted over time.
Which version of C++ is Dwarf Fortress written in?
Which version of C++ is Dwarf Fortress written in?It's been 20 years in the making ... so ... all of them.Quote from: https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/31/700000-lines-of-code-20-years-and-one-developer-how-dwarf-fortress-is-built/DF is some combination of C and C++, not in some kind of standard obeying way, but sort of a mess that’s accreted over time.
I'm very excited about the Steam release for many reason but one will be the mods.
There seem to always be "quality of life" mods which come out and I was wondering what the policy would be on if these mods get adopted into the game?
I realize DF is probably a deeply cherished personal project but I also know that the devs have things they'd rather work on.
Has this been given any thought or an answer? Thanks.
I advise caution in any attempt to make nobility more central to the game without significant changes to nobility, which I don't think you have time to make. Nobility is currently not fun or interesting. Players kill them not because they're sadistic but because it's the most direct way to remove an unfun mechanic.
Hello! I have a bit of a difficulty settings question: is there currently a way to tweak how common visits that petition for mercenary/temple/tavern type are? I ask because I really enjoyed having a squad of humans/goblins/outsiders in the prior version and since when merc companies were added to world gen I haven't seen a single mercenary petition. That is something that would be really cool to have an option of having again some day for roleplaying/etc. Thank you for reading
When might we expect some random properties to be assigned to the divine metals? Any chance of we could see a small update for the divine metals prior to far off Myth and Magic update? Perhaps in a not entirely dissimilar manner to the prototype for magical powers that intelligent undead were given.
The divine metals are pretty boring as they only feature procedural generation which assigns them a name based on their corresponding deity's sphere. And their material properties are always the same.
Without turning this into a suggestion, I think simple things like random numbers for the material properties, and maybe one or two wacky things from a list would go a long way in generating some good stories out these obscure metals. It's certainly difficult for me to say that I would not thoroughly enjoy laying a war hammer of 'whatchamacallitonium', that has a persistent temperature of something like 672 °F, out in an open field with nothing to guard it. And just having the dwarves sit back and watch the results of kobolds and giant kea birds attempts to sneak off with it.
Divine materials are only used by angels and divination blessings that gift armor or weapons. They're nonexistent in fort mode, excluding the elf trade mat bug. Given their rarity, they probably won't be revisited until development puts them front-and-center. Divine mats had a chance to be updated when divination was added, and it didn't happen.
With the steam release's redesign of activity zones, will there be support for activity zones that exist across multiple z-levels? This would be especially useful for outdoor pastures on hillsides, where there isn't enough room on a single z-level to support many animals.
Does discovering the caverns have a negative impact on FPS due to cavern critter pathfinding / flowing water etc.? Or do those calculations just happen normally regardless of whether or not the caverns have been revealed?
3.After the Magic update, is hell gonna go away depending on the myth?
Yeah, so here are the questions: So we have a question from recon1o6. The question is:The "next question" is this one (https://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_25_transcript.html#25.16), which I'm not putting as quote here as it is both longer and has a more spread out answer, but they basically confirm the current setup should be one possibly myth-result.
When we do add the Myth & Magic release, when we add demons to it, is there going to be a possibility of worlds where the demons are not trapped in the underworld, that they're actually roaming around on the the the outside? Because what we were talking about when we talked about these other races, not just demons and things but angels and forest spirits, and all that, we just kind of talked about them as if they're out there doing their thing, or they're off in some plane somewhere, or they're wherever. And indeed that's the idea. The idea is that there would be a number of situations. It wouldn't always be the underworld exactly as it is with, you know, - spoiler alert! - adamantine spires coming up from a kind of underworld place that's described as being a different place, like the sky is described as different when you go down there and do the weather description, so it is sort of a different place, but it's really just kind of under too - it's the underworld. And it always works a certain way. Yeah. And we're planning on having just different possibilities there. Although in the next question we'll address that.
How long will it be before attacking armies will have the ability to dig or otherwise enter a walled off fort?
Regarding animal people, is there any control on how many show up or how frequently? Some people hate them with a burning passion and don't want them at all, afterall
Regarding animal people, is there any control on how many show up or how frequently? Some people hate them with a burning passion and don't want them at all, afterall
Hey T-dog, whats up with this dwarf and soap?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hey T-dog, whats up with this dwarf and soap?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://youtu.be/_KUt07R0I0k?t=215
What are his traits? My guess is it has to do with personality. Personality is a primary factor in determining a dwarf's emotions + needs. Maybe bathing is associated with orderliness (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Personality_trait#ORDERLINESS).
Hey T-dog, whats up with this dwarf and soap?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://youtu.be/_KUt07R0I0k?t=215
What are his traits? My guess is it has to do with personality. Personality is a primary factor in determining a dwarf's emotions + needs. Maybe bathing is associated with orderliness (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Personality_trait#ORDERLINESS).
Lol that clip was awesome.
Uhh... about the dwarf though, he appears to have fought the soap water all the way to the bitter end.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: DoorkeeperHillocks have shallow underground farms. Will the changes to soil farming affect crop yields in hillocks? More generally, does the sim now track whether a site has shallow sub farms or deep sub farms, and does crop production for that site correspond accordingly?
upd: upon further inspection the tiles inside the individual hillock structures are actually made of cavern floors... so it looks like they're just deep farming, technically. not shallow farming as implied by location.
Although as you've mentioned in your most recent response, the hill dwarves could have gathered the "improved" soil from the mountainhome. That's my headcanon for now, at least.
How would that work anyway, if you were to add a soil gathering zone? Since soil is a material and is the same regardless of depth, plus cavern floors are currently just rock overlaid with mud. Would the rock/mud gathered from a cavern have a special flag for plot improvement use?
upd2: haven't noticed this before until now, but i've dug out an indoor surface soil layer in fort mode, and the resulting floor tiles are labeled as cavern floor. Wondering if this was also changed as part of the farming overhaul. "Cavern Floor" just indicates that the tile attribute is subterranean, as far as i can tell (it's not displayed if vegetation is growing on it). But still wondering if the changes you've made affect this label since players could read "Cavern Floor" and confuse shallow soil for the cavern surface. I'm also not sure anymore if this means the hillock farm plots are counted as cavern/deep farming, since I initially assumed they were because the tiles were labeled as cavern floors.Quote from: clinodevAnother "new farming" question: How does a potash fertilized muddied stone/soil plot compare with cavern plots? How about with potash fertilized cavern plots? Some cleverness with the numbers could make potash fertilization useful for more than specialist early quarry bush cultivation.
1. When will the development page on the dwarf fortress site be updated.
2 how quickly is progress going on premium and any time frame for it
3 once magic and myth update comes out in what ways can during gameplay can a deity manifest
Regarding the changes to farming (and I suppose subterranean effects in general); Will there be any changes to the way 'light-dark' tiles are calculated? Right now, once a tile is exposed to the surface it becomes permanently 'light', even when covered again, meaning you can neutralize cave adaptation without risk.
Will steam version have the option to display water depth as 1-7? Not necessarily numbers but at least different tile image?
I've noticed that custom modded bloodsucker races with their own entities perform bloodsucker purges. I dont think this is a bug since it makes sense for other races to purge bloodsuckers but is them doing it to themselves intended?
Oh, and I've also noticed many bandit forts being continually declared war on by random civilizations, why is this? Is this to cull bandit populations? Because as far as I can tell it doesnt have a major effect on fort populations and instead results in clutter in legends mode with the 1991th pillaging of a random bandit fort being noted.
1. You often mention the famous "Map Rewrite" that will happen... Soon-ish? And although with a name as foreboding as that, it must be very important to the game, what exactly is there to rewrite? What will the map rewrite do/change regarding map/world generation? What will it mean for modders?
2. Regarding culture; symbols and colors don't have the same meaning depending on the culture. For example the color black in Europe is attached to death and grieviances, whereas in China, it usually associated with prosperity and good health. Are there any plans to add cultural differences in DF?
3. Regarding Technology; every civilization seem to have access to the same level of technology no matter what age it is or how far in time the game takes in place. This means that even at the dawn of dwarfkind, they already figured out how to make wacky contraptions, but ten thousand years later, goblins still haven't put one and two together and figured out how to make drawbridges. Do you have any plans regarding technology evolving with time?
According to Dwarf Fortress Talk 7, and comments you've made in this thread, artifacts are truly indestructible (if atom smashed, etc, they'll just be "hidden" and scrambled during claim/reclaim or adventurer visits.)
I've been wondering about a few nuances to this:
1. Are books and named items treated in the exact same way as other artifacts? (I reckon so, as the game tends to treat them the same way with the 'L' artifacts screen.)
2. Any changes to how 'hidden' is handled, or how artifacts are scrambled after destruction? I've made 2 attempts at destroying books and finding them again and both have failed. I haven't been able to find a proper artifact that was destroyed either. (Ignoring copies of books, which can be destoryed)
Also a completely unrelated question:
3. When two sites occupy the same world-tile, the 'c' menu will only show one of those sites and the other is inaccessible to raids/missions unless you send a mission for a person/artifact that might be there. Has this been dealt with in the new and upcoming UI stuff?
Thanks to you and the community for any answers to this!
I have a few questions related to world generation, which turned out longer than I anticipated. Apologies in advance for being so wordy!
As I understand, the prevailing winds are based on the real-life Polar, Ferrel, and Hadley circulation cells, but are they generated to match the pole(s) of the world? Could there be a world generation option to set prevailing winds to be homogeneous across the whole map? Something like the existing option to set a north pole, south pole, both, or neither, but have options for the wind to come mostly from the north, northeast, east, and so on.
What scale do the temperature settings use in the advanced worldgen options? I've heard that the bug with pole-less worlds having extremely hot ""temperate"" biomes is already a known issue, and I know that the actual temperature is affected by rainfall and elevation, but I'm curious what the scale is supposed to be since it doesn't seem to match the ""degrees Urist"" used elsewhere in-game.
Also related to temperature, any rough idea of when we might get more fine-grained distinctions than ""temperate"" and ""tropical""? Maybe even have yearly minimum and maximum temperature values for each region, and have each plant and animal have its own tolerances? At the very least it would be nice to have ""subtropical"" biomes so that we don't have koalas in subarctic climates.
I love that in this game you can generate a world with a very realistic distance/area scale if you have no poles and set a very narrow temperature range. However, there are a few problems that arise when trying to make it as realistic as possible (so as to avoid questions about the geometry and scale of a whole planet the size of even a large DF world, and for the fun of recreating real-life locations), which is why I asked about the wind directions and temperature issues, and my last question is about the vertical scaling.
While it's possible to realistically recreate real places at a 1:1 scale horizontally (a Large DF world is nearly 395000 metres across and could fit Tasmania), you have to either flatten the real elevation range to fit in into DF's 400 2.8m z-levels, or find an area where any salt water is less than 278m deep and the highest elevation above sea level is 840m, and deal with the awkwardness of having the ""mountain"" biome anywhere that's more than 560m above sea level even if there's no big difference in biome IRL. (For reference, Mount Everest is about 9000m above sea level and Challenger Deep is about 11000m below it, or about 3200 and 4000 z-levels respectively.) So basically what I'm asking here is how doable it would be to have deeper oceans and taller mountains. Having a larger world volume to simulate would be a performance issue, but could the map have the same number of z-levels everywhere and have them offset depending on the elevation of the region or something? Isn't that how it already works?
Which version of C++ is Dwarf Fortress written in?
Has any function for right-clicking been implemented?
I'm very excited about the Steam release for many reason but one will be the mods.
There seem to always be "quality of life" mods which come out and I was wondering what the policy would be on if these mods get adopted into the game?
I realize DF is probably a deeply cherished personal project but I also know that the devs have things they'd rather work on.
Has this been given any thought or an answer? Thanks.
Previously when you had shown the hyperlinks, figures and entities were coloured according to their kind.
Does this colouring carry over to statue and engraving descriptions in fortress mode?
Do functional hyperlinks?
Just finished reading the spoilerific Zachpost over the main page, I think i got the jist of it. ;D
Just the nitpicky one thing i want to pick up on though, question directed at Toady or Threetoe in this instance: If the caravan limit triggers have been altered, will suddenly losing the contents before they leave the map still cause as significant a relationship rift or has the tolerance/mechanics behind trade-relations been changed?
Because forcibly-small caravans running aground to adverse conditions and simple wildlife encounters getting too close seems like perfect-storm noob entanglement that's going to cause players issues; when the home civ attacks and ceases further relations for no apparent reason than the loss of traded capital with the fort fronting the blame (many times also hard to diagnose, and taking scripting than any ingame mechanism to fix). Typically a fortress's starting trust relations close to 0'ish in the first caravan is usually vital to direct diplomacy with any nation they interact with in 47.05 and many preceding versions.
2. Is first contact more formal in the planned new release, or can you still send delegations of unwashed dwarves applying demanding tribute missions to contact traders across the continent? The mentioned already used strategy would probably be more effective in the new build because of how better the UI is for trade/caravan mangement in general.
3. And co-joint question on the same topic as trade: does this open back up the path to the merchant nobility returning to the game in more force than just offmap merchant companies?
Probably just me overthinking it, but i am amused by the idea of a spymaster like noble who writes up little scribble money schemes, pays off legitimate hired goons and handles greater money loanlending (if spymaster ever gets completed to compare that imagined role to)
Ill be honest though, some parts of it left me confused and sometimes a tiny bit worried over change of such a vital part of fortress sustainability as my questions probably infer, but im still hopeful the changes are a safe addition to pass over some gripes and cheesy trade tactics.
Hello! I have a bit of a difficulty settings question: is there currently a way to tweak how common visits that petition for mercenary/temple/tavern type are? I ask because I really enjoyed having a squad of humans/goblins/outsiders in the prior version and since when merc companies were added to world gen I haven't seen a single mercenary petition. That is something that would be really cool to have an option of having again some day for roleplaying/etc. Thank you for reading
When might we expect some random properties to be assigned to the divine metals? Any chance of we could see a small update for the divine metals prior to far off Myth and Magic update? Perhaps in a not entirely dissimilar manner to the prototype for magical powers that intelligent undead were given.
The divine metals are pretty boring as they only feature procedural generation which assigns them a name based on their corresponding deity's sphere. And their material properties are always the same.
Without turning this into a suggestion, I think simple things like random numbers for the material properties, and maybe one or two wacky things from a list would go a long way in generating some good stories out these obscure metals. It's certainly difficult for me to say that I would not thoroughly enjoy laying a war hammer of 'whatchamacallitonium', that has a persistent temperature of something like 672 °F, out in an open field with nothing to guard it. And just having the dwarves sit back and watch the results of kobolds and giant kea birds attempts to sneak off with it.
How much do you worry about accidentally sacrificing gameplay value when pursuing other goals?
With the steam release's redesign of activity zones, will there be support for activity zones that exist across multiple z-levels? This would be especially useful for outdoor pastures on hillsides, where there isn't enough room on a single z-level to support many animals.
I apologize if this isn't an appropriate question for the Future of the Fortress thread, but I've heard conflicting theories over the years and I haven't been able to figure it out in my varied embark attemps. Though I have seen reanimating biomes quickly fill up the caverns with many reanimated trogdolyte and crundle pieces moving about and getting stuck atop giant mushrooms.
Does discovering the caverns have a negative impact on FPS due to cavern critter pathfinding / flowing water etc.? Or do those calculations just happen normally regardless of whether or not the caverns have been revealed?
1.Do you have any favorite generated myths you're willing to share?
2.How is the economy eventually going to work in our forts?
3.After the Magic update, is hell gonna go away depending on the myth?
4.How far away are we from getting fortress mode mounts?
5.Can we reassign war animals in the steam version?
6.Are we ever going to get the option to surrender to a siege and become part of the enemy civ, and if yes, when could we expect that?
How long will it be before attacking armies will have the ability to dig or otherwise enter a walled off fort?
Regarding animal people, is there any control on how many show up or how frequently? Some people hate them with a burning passion and don't want them at all, afterall
Hey T-dog, whats up with this dwarf and soap?
(picture of dwarf made miserable by soap)
Quote from: DoorkeeperHillocks have shallow underground farms. Will the changes to soil farming affect crop yields in hillocks? More generally, does the sim now track whether a site has shallow sub farms or deep sub farms, and does crop production for that site correspond accordingly?
upd: upon further inspection the tiles inside the individual hillock structures are actually made of cavern floors... so it looks like they're just deep farming, technically. not shallow farming as implied by location.
Although as you've mentioned in your most recent response, the hill dwarves could have gathered the "improved" soil from the mountainhome. That's my headcanon for now, at least.
How would that work anyway, if you were to add a soil gathering zone? Since soil is a material and is the same regardless of depth, plus cavern floors are currently just rock overlaid with mud. Would the rock/mud gathered from a cavern have a special flag for plot improvement use?
upd2: haven't noticed this before until now, but i've dug out an indoor surface soil layer in fort mode, and the resulting floor tiles are labeled as cavern floor. Wondering if this was also changed as part of the farming overhaul. "Cavern Floor" just indicates that the tile attribute is subterranean, as far as i can tell (it's not displayed if vegetation is growing on it). But still wondering if the changes you've made affect this label since players could read "Cavern Floor" and confuse shallow soil for the cavern surface. I'm also not sure anymore if this means the hillock farm plots are counted as cavern/deep farming, since I initially assumed they were because the tiles were labeled as cavern floors.
Are you talking about world gen production? Everything there works differently from fort mode, and we haven't updated anything. There's no production in other parts of the world after play begins.
Quote from: BrythonLexiWhat is presented publicly is that generated sites keep track of what they produce every week, such as milking or woodcrafting. I would like to know details of how this affects the world in general, but particularly:
- Items that adventurers are able to see and purchase in market stalls and shops of human towns, and trade depots of dwarven fortresses. Do those, and/or the existence of particular shops in general, get affected by such production?
- Caravans received in Fortress Mode. Are the products of those relevant civs generated spontaneously based on player need, or resource production and availability of the civilization sending merchants?
- Do those weekly production cycles continue post world-generation? For this question, that includes the 2 weeks between embarks/adventures, during Fortress Mode, and during Adventure Mode?
I imagine a "No" answer to mean that the items that exist at the end of world generation are all that will ever exist in Adventure Mode - that clearing a Mead Hall of items, then playing 10 years of a fortress, then returning to that Mead Hall in a new adventurer would still result in an empty Mead Hall. ...
It's a whole huge thing, way too big for what it does, so I can't really go into all of it here. There's a division of labor, lots of migration, the crops are tracked week by week, town expertise is tracked which results in the various shop divisions, and every resource and product is also tracked, including its source. This is why people in the market stalls in adv mode can yell about where the stuff comes from - all of those statements are factual.
As I recall, this includes not just all the purchaseable items in towns, but most of the furniture and food in buildings. If I recall, the dwarf forts only have beds in some of the bedrooms because their bed resource stockpile from worldgen had that many to provide. But of course there are a lot of cut corners too, especially for newer stuff - shrines for instance, with their statues and dice, are all generated rather than pulled from resource piles, and I believe that's also true of all doors.
Caravans are continuously arriving and new stuff isn't made, and it's a lot more stuff than the typical adventurer will grab, so their stuff all has to be generated. The goods do take local materials into consideration.
The weekly cycles stop after world gen. That's basically where I stopped way back during the caravan arc as far as I remember. Got world gen production in as a model for post world gen, but didn't start post world gen. And yeah, if you clear out the categories of objects that come from the worlgen stockpiles, they won't return.
According to tv tropes, it would be a duocylinder, a thing thats impossible in 3d.- Support for portals connecting non adjacent parts of the map to each other, both on the same map and to different maps. This can also support maps that wrap around (moving over the edge to the west causes you to enter the east edge of the map, resulting in a cylindrical world, or even wrap around north to south as well as east to west, resulting in a shape that doesn't exist in the real world).Technically, that shape does exist in the real world, at least sort of - it's a torus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus), more commonly recognized as a Donut.
The replies apply to the currently-released version, but divine items make more of an appearance in fort mode in the next release. I haven't changed anything about their properties yet, they just act as treasures and as equipment with properties between steel and adamantine if I remember. Certainly there's now a bit more dev potential in that direction with them around more commonly in playBut now what could this mean? :o
Topologically, it's a torus, just one that you can't really put into a 3D space without overlapping or whatever. A mug is also a torus, and all that.
Thanks for the answers Toady! Interesting that artifacts can be destroyed for good now. The wiki should be updated!Topologically, it's a torus, just one that you can't really put into a 3D space without overlapping or whatever. A mug is also a torus, and all that.
Dwarf Fortress is...mug shaped? It is Armok's will!
Something that's bugging me a little: Why are the underground crops the ones effected by the changing seasons while the surface crops- the ones actually exposed to the changing weather and temperature- aren't? The conditions underground are really quite stable- hence wine cellars and root cellars.
How much warning do you plan to give before the release of the new version? Will there be an official release date scheduled, or will you just drop it on us like in previous releases?
I'd like to be able to schedule some time off :D
Something that's bugging me a little: Why are the underground crops the ones effected by the changing seasons while the surface crops- the ones actually exposed to the changing weather and temperature- aren't? The conditions underground are really quite stable- hence wine cellars and root cellars.
Like Patrick said, there used to be underground seasons. In the 2D version, there was always a cave river in the mountain behind the fort, and every spring the river would flood the crops, so the crops available depended on the season. It never got updated when the z-levels got added and the flooding no longer happened, and then cave rivers and chasms got phased out when the current caverns got implemented. But crops still depend on the "seasonal floods" kinda. Which makes sense if the rock is porous enough that a significant amount of surface water drains down into them after every spring thaw. But thats not currently a thing in the game right now.
On the dev page (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html), Automatons were mentioned as a possible feature. When could we expect their first appearance?[
I was curious:1. The DF structures of DFHack maps most or all of the creature info, so you can find the info there (and you won't have to wait to the end of the month).
1: Once a creature is parsed from the raws, How do you represent it in memory(I'm ok with technical details)?
2: On the dev page (https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html), Automatons were mentioned as a possible feature. When could we expect their first appearance(After or before Myth/Magic)?
Thanks for the answers in advance!
3. Biome changes already exist, although only to a very small extent (savage biomes are tamed over time in world generation due to influence from civilization, and evil can now spread from nodes (necro towers and new demon led goblin civs)). The map rewrite will make it possible to change terrain as well, both gradually as a result of sphere influence changes, and abruptly as the result of a spell. or a divine or natural cataclysmic event. Thus, it has been considered, but it remains to see when and how abrupt changes make their appearance (spheres battling it out is more or less a given, and although the number of sphere influence changing factors will probably be limited initially, the "battle" mechanics will probably have to be in there from the start).
I know those kind of changes exist. I was talking about more natural changes such as temperature, sea levels, disasters, costal erosion and the like
3. At somepoint in the future will costal erosion be considered as a feature, so overtime the map changes, sea level rises, islands shifting together or breaking off. Sea volcanos forming islands. So sites might end up becoming lost under the ocean or burried in magma. I know its a big feature to implement but has it ever been thought about or considered before. As well as biome changes as the enviroment changes, like the expansion of a desert over time due to desertification or a forest becoming colder over time due to enviromental changes.
What does "Will the Myth & Magic arc significantly affect the dynamics of personality?" mean? Are you asking whether there will be some rewrite of the personality system?Will there be a personality rewrite? This seems connected to both play modes, the villains and army arcs, as well as my question below. Curious about bay12's thinking on personality.
I’ve been reading the wiki, and I’ve got a few questions.
It says that all towns start out as hamlets and then turn into towns under the right circumstances. What are those circumstances?
Also, it says that, for towns, of of +, *, #, or ☼ is used according to the population. For hamlets, are the distinctions between Æ and æ, and = and ≡ also based on population? If so, what are the required populations?
Also, is the list of population ranges for each level of town in the wiki (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Town) correct? If so, what determines whether a town with (for example) a population of exactly 1000 shows up as a + or a *?
I was curious:
1: Once a creature is parsed from the raws, How do you represent it in memory(I'm ok with technical details)?
I was curious:
1: Once a creature is parsed from the raws, How do you represent it in memory(I'm ok with technical details)?
https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/master/df.creature-raws.xml
If you mean the unit, rather than its creature raws,
https://github.com/DFHack/df-structures/blob/master/df.units.xml
Will the Myth and Magic arc significantly affect the dynamics of personality?Welcome to the forum.
Will creatures' bodies or behaviors ever change over generations?
/color]
Thank you for the game!
Will the Myth and Magic arc significantly affect the dynamics of personality?Welcome to the forum.
Will creatures' bodies or behaviors ever change over generations?
/color]
Thank you for the game!
ToadyOne will tend to only answer questions that are directly related what they're currently doing.
When asking questions regarding the future development, he responds with 'Yea that sounds good.' or 'We'll see.'
How does the look menu work now? Is there a quick way of identifying different types of stone to designate for mining, without having to use the look menu? I know what everything is at a glance with the ASCIIs, I'm worried I'll get confused by the artwork when looking for ores, mineral types, and so on.
How back compatible is the new version going to be with the old keyboard shortcuts? My hands remember which buttons to press even if my brain doesn't. Watching Zach's video fills me with confused terror.
- What about being able to use Legends Mode during Fortress Mode?
DIFFICULTY | Increases experience gain during adventure mode. Creatures with a difficulty of 11 or higher are not assigned for quests in adventure mode.
With the Steam release in mind;
- Have you considered giving Legends Mode a similar GUI overhaul? (Possibly similar to the popular utility 'Legends Viewer')
Why is the current default tileset nonsquare? If I remember correctly, there’s a square one in the files too.When the game was first created it was meant to hav exceedingly simple graphics and to that end they decided to emulate old DOS text displays, thus the 16 colors, the CP437 characters, the 80x25 character minimum size, and the 8x12 pixel character font. In 2002 when the game was first released most people were still using 800x600 monitors, with 1024x768 not over-taking that until the next year. The square font is 16 pixels, which at 80 characters requires at least a 1280 wide monitor. Some people still play DF on older computers or devices with various displays, so the defaults need to be small enough to fit those. Edit: well, sort of, the tileset is resized to be small enough to fit the current window size, but that can cause blurring or distortion. (And that also might hav been added by Baughn.) (Also, I think the square font may hav been added by Baughn when he helped update the graphics.)
- Why are demons only ever given the ampersand as their creature tile, whereas other procedurally-generated creatures like experiments, titans, and forgotten beasts are given random tiles?
...
[…]
The tiles for titans, FBs, etc. aren't entirely random though. It's the first letter of the form/animal of the random creature. Humanoids are 'H', anklyosaurids are 'A', and so on. At the very least, the latin alphabet letters are mostly used to represent creatures, with notable exceptions like 'O' and 'X'.
I think I remember you saying that ncurses mode is going away. Is that true? If so, is it still necessary to support 80x25 screens? What are the new minimum tile dimensions that you are targeting for the UI? In other words, when you design a new menu/screen/dialog, what can you assume about how much screen space you have to work with?
Remember to mark the questions in lime green if they are meant for Toady.
If the release of the game generates enough money, would you be willing to hire additional programmers. This could dramatically increase the speed at which you will be able to move through your update/feature timeline. This would also free you up to do more work on the design end of the game which would benefit everyone.
He does see money changing a few things. They might hire someone to help with graphics programming in the future so he can focus on developing Dwarf Fortress’s upcoming features, like a long-gestating magic system. He wants to keep paying the artists to work on the game after the initial Steam release. And if money as a concern really does go away for life, he says, why not release the source code?
PCGamer, 26 March, 2019 (https://www.pcgamer.com/if-dwarf-fortress-sells-millions-on-steam-its-creators-will-give-the-money-away-as-fast-as-possible/)
- Spending ever increasing parts of the time on managing others rather than doing the work that's actually enjoyable. That, in turn, risks killing the interest in the project, and can thus lead to it being abandoned.
- Lack of control and knowledge, i.e. things written by others may not be easily understood. Toady has had bad experiences in the past, with some things written by somebody else not being readily understood (and thus not updated).
will adventure mode exclusive creatures/items still be graphically ready by the release date? I want to import a fortress that already has divine metal once the steam release happens.
Secondly will saves work seamlessly between steam and the free version? For instance if i wanted to port a save from the steam release to the free release to do something on adventure mode, and then port it back after i am done, will that be possible without issue?
Finally, on the topic of adventure mode, will we be able to actually customize our character instead of randomizing it?
will adventure mode exclusive creatures/items still be graphically ready by the release date? I want to import a fortress that already has divine metal once the steam release happens.
Secondly will saves work seamlessly between steam and the free version? For instance if i wanted to port a save from the steam release to the free release to do something on adventure mode, and then port it back after i am done, will that be possible without issue?
Finally, on the topic of adventure mode, will we be able to actually customize our character instead of randomizing it?
I suspect the first point may be somewhat moot for you once the release drops- wouldn't be surprised if we hit a break in backwards compatibility, given all the changes that have been made. There's the Hospital's transition from Zone to Location just as one thing I can recall offhand.
I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me like it would be really weird to break backwards compatibility with the premium release. After all:Except the save format itself has been changed to separate out mods and graphics - I would think that alone makes backwards compatibility very difficult at best.
- while this has added quite a few things, most of them are graphical/usability improvements that (to me) shouldn't interfere with the gameplay itself
I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me like it would be really weird to break backwards compatibility with the premium release. After all:Except the save format itself has been changed to separate out mods and graphics - I would think that alone makes backwards compatibility very difficult at best.
- while this has added quite a few things, most of them are graphical/usability improvements that (to me) shouldn't interfere with the gameplay itself
What's stopping the game from just supporting both formats for a bit? I guess it would lead to a bit more resource usage, but, like, relative to the scope of DF as it is, i doubt it would be that much more. I'm not an expert, though.
If not, hey, 8 years of backwards compatibility is a fantastic run, and at least we won't have to explain to people that DF:2014 IS the current version of the wiki anymore!!
If not, hey, 8 years of backwards compatibility is a fantastic run, and at least we won't have to explain to people that DF:2014 IS the current version of the wiki anymore!!
I don't remember who it was (I wanna say voliol?), but there was a good case made on the forum somewhere that the premium release really should bring a wiki namespace update, even if it doesn't break save compatibility.
Since some of them contains dwarven lyrics does it mean that we have this language for the rest of the dev process?
The new tracks are lovely! When are we going to be hearing this music? I had been under the assumption that Dabu's four tracks were one for each season, but then where do the rest fit in? Is it like in Simcity where the music advances as your fortress/city grows? "Strike the earth" could be a first-year track, going by it's name, but the others don't give me this vibe.
Are Kobolds supposed to be able to come up with and build their own Musical Instruments? Because I just raided and razed a Kobold cave and got two separate kinds- the Tukududolgis and the Jadasraynkus. Definitely look like Kobold names, and they came from one of their caves...
@Randomizer:
An embark of size 3*3 or larger is guaranteed to have at least one spire, although a bug can cause some the spires not to show up in practice when using a reduced number of layers (layer accounting is botched, so a spire that should reach a layer that's been removed won't appear at all, rather than reach the layer that replaces the removed one). It's probably less work to fix the bug than it is to add an embark site search criterion that accounts for the bug...
Given that HFS is procedurally generated, the only way to find the variant themes you happen to be looking for would be to make a DFHack script to search for them, as it would be extremely unlikely Toady would produce a HFS variant matcher as part of a potential site finder update.
I was running a challenge with a no-aging hermit to discover every topic in existence, running a script to tell me how many topics have been discovered based on DFHack's df-structures information, and she's skipped out on "philosophy: propositional logic" and "engineering: models and templates" and gone straight to the "Research!" activity. What could have caused that to happen?
Had seen "Reserach!" before when setting all 312 (are there more?) topics to known.
Something that's bugging me a little: Why are the underground crops the ones effected by the changing seasons while the surface crops- the ones actually exposed to the changing weather and temperature- aren't? The conditions underground are really quite stable- hence wine cellars and root cellars.
How much warning do you plan to give before the release of the new version? Will there be an official release date scheduled, or will you just drop it on us like in previous releases?
Will premium introduce a solution to Necromancer Entropy - the fact that given enough time undead take over the world? I believe Tarn previously mentioned vampire hunters of the Van Helsing ilk, possibly grouping together into some kind of organizations. How are the odds for this looking right now? (This was stated in an interview with Blind, but not his most recent one, or maybe here, or in maybe in some other interview.)
I know this is technically an emergent gameplay feature rather than a bug, but it's not one that actually enables any fun gameplay (except for roleplaying Zombie Apolcalypse), and it seems you guys have acknowledged that it's a problem. Thanks for reading.
1: Once a creature is parsed from the raws, How do you represent it in memory(I'm ok with technical details)?
2: On the dev page, Automatons were mentioned as a possible feature. When could we reasonably expect their first appearance?
1. Have you ever considered restrictions/segmentation on books in libraries ever and would you possibly consider it in the future, such as restricting individual books and/or a library on a certain topic like astrology in one library and chronicles in another
2. In regards to religions, will it be possible in the future for a player to found them, especially in terms of adventure mode, having a adventurer founding a religious cult, a splinter off from a already exisiting one or becoming leadership and making changes to an existing one.
3. At somepoint in the future will costal erosion be considered as a feature, so overtime the map changes, sea level rises, islands shifting together or breaking off. Sea volcanos forming islands. So sites might end up becoming lost under the ocean or burried in magma. I know its a big feature to implement but has it ever been thought about or considered before. As well as biome changes as the enviroment changes, like the expansion of a desert over time due to desertification or a forest becoming colder over time due to enviromental changes.
1. Will the Myth and Magic arc significantly affect the dynamics of personality? Will there be a personality rewrite? This seems connected to both play modes, the villains and army arcs, as well as my question below. Curious about bay12's thinking on personality.
2. Will creatures' bodies or behaviors ever change over generations? I read that creatures do inherit both appearance and attributes. Does this produce an evolutionary effect currently? Do cultural customs change over time, or will they?
3. A gameplay question: During a conversation in adventure mode, some people have a "Sluggish" attitude toward me. What does that mean?
I’ve been reading the wiki, and I’ve got a few questions.
It says that all towns start out as hamlets and then turn into towns under the right circumstances. What are those circumstances?
Also, it says that, for towns, of of +, *, #, or ? is used according to the population. For hamlets, are the distinctions between Æ and æ, and = and ? also based on population? If so, what are the required populations?
Also, is the list of population ranges for each level of town in the wiki correct? If so, what determines whether a town with (for example) a population of exactly 1000 shows up as a + or a *?
1. Will the advanced worldgen menu be in the initial Premium release?
2. What sort of timeline are you thinking of for the releasing the raws/info for modders to prepare for updating?
3. Last we've heard about the roadmap plans were you decided on doing Adventure mode later, and are unsure about Arena mode; what's your position on the Steam Workshop and Achievements, which were also in an uncertain place?
4. Will the advanced world gen menu be in the initial Steam release?
5. Will the layer-fog color be changed? Blue makes it look like everything is flooded, at least underground.
6. Might something like the dragon randomizer (ie constrained randomness definable in raws, so that random things can be made to match "archetypes") ever exist for plants, materials, entities, interactions/magic, or other things that end up controllable?
7. What's the lore for why necromancers need to breathe, despite conquering all the other bodily needs (eating/drinking/sleeping)?
How does the look menu work now? Is there a quick way of identifying different types of stone to designate for mining, without having to use the look menu? I know what everything is at a glance with the ASCIIs, I'm worried I'll get confused by the artwork when looking for ores, mineral types, and so on.
How back compatible is the new version going to be with the old keyboard shortcuts? My hands remember which buttons to press even if my brain doesn't. Watching Zach's video fills me with confused terror.
With the Steam release in mind;
- Have you considered giving Legends Mode a similar GUI overhaul? (Possibly similar to the popular utility 'Legends Viewer')
- What about being able to use Legends Mode during Fortress Mode?
- Have you (and I suppose KitFox here) considered doing a promotional release several days before launch? Give a pre-release copy to streamers and the like.
- Why are demons only ever given the ampersand as their creature tile, whereas other procedurally-generated creatures like experiments, titans, and forgotten beasts are given random tiles?
- On a related note, why do demons have the same [DIFFICULTY] as forgotten beasts and titans, despite definitely being generally usually pretty harder?
- On a related note to that one, would it be possible for procedurally-generated creatures to have different [DIFFICULTY]s depending on their properties?
¿will you take some kind of rest, or holidays, when the Steam version is launched?
I guess you'll addres the most worrying bugs but after that, I mean.
You talk about development in a really casual way, like it's no big deal, but I'm pretty sure there's been a lot of stressful moments and a lot more will come with the release. I love the game, but no game is worth its creators' wellbeing.
If it's not too personal, ¿Have you ever felt you abused yourself pushing a release or hunting a bug? Is it difficult to handle the community's expectations and constant "when when when" questions?
Why is the current default tileset nonsquare? If I remember correctly, there’s a square one in the files too.
I think I remember you saying that ncurses mode is going away. Is that true? If so, is it still necessary to support 80x25 screens? What are the new minimum tile dimensions that you are targeting for the UI? In other words, when you design a new menu/screen/dialog, what can you assume about how much screen space you have to work with?
Will we be able to read the next part of Tales Foretold in the foreseeable future?
If the release of the game generates enough money, would you be willing to hire additional programmers. This could dramatically increase the speed at which you will be able to move through your update/feature timeline. This would also free you up to do more work on the design end of the game which would benefit everyone.
will adventure mode exclusive creatures/items still be graphically ready by the release date? I want to import a fortress that already has divine metal once the steam release happens.
Secondly will saves work seamlessly between steam and the free version? For instance if i wanted to port a save from the steam release to the free release to do something on adventure mode, and then port it back after i am done, will that be possible without issue?
Finally, on the topic of adventure mode, will we be able to actually customize our character instead of randomizing it?
Quick question about new soundtracks(more about dwarven language). Since some of them contains dwarven lyrics does it mean that we have this language for the rest of the dev process? I mean there was a forum topic where some baydweller tryed to make dwarven into actual language and as far as I remember he gave up because you said before that languages will be procgenerated too.
I was wondering, will the new location finder have a way of showing where candy and clowns are to be found?. That way when you embark you can be sure it is on the game map. There are types of HFS that are not always found on the game map. There may even be new HFS in the big release. I would like a way to guarantee it is all on the game map I choose. A setting in the init files could be used to switch this feature on and off.
I am aware you are almost guaranteed to have a least a little candy but presence of the other HFS is rare and reduced to dumb luck.
1.Are we going to see adventure mode ai improvements before magic? Would be nice if there were some consequences for killing the king.
2.Will we get fort mode mounts, and if so how would they be implemented?
The new tracks are lovely! When are we going to be hearing this music? I had been under the assumption that Dabu's four tracks were one for each season, but then where do the rest fit in? Is it like in Simcity where the music advances as your fortress/city grows? "Strike the earth" could be a first-year track, going by it's name, but the others don't give me this vibe.
Are Kobolds supposed to be able to come up with and build their own Musical Instruments? Because I just raided and razed a Kobold cave and got two separate kinds- the Tukududolgis and the Jadasraynkus. Definitely look like Kobold names, and they came from one of their caves...
What do you mean divine metal in fortress mode? How will we be able to get our hands on it? Will we be able to get different variations?
In regards to the new mod loading system, how will total conversions be handled?
[...]I'd imagine not much has changed since then; it's the latest mention of mod structure I could find in the devlogs.
When you create a world, you can set a load order from among the mods that are installed on your computer, including the vanilla objects. The default is just to load the vanilla objects in order, and you don't even see this if you haven't put mods on your system. On the other hand, vanilla objects don't need to be loaded at all, though obviously in that case you'll generally want something to replace them. Hopefully this will allow total object conversions and other large changes without needing to leave the in-game interface.
[...]
I watched the demo recorded on Twitch, awesome!
One thing that I find particularly jarring though, and that may be easily fixed, is how characters and objects on screen just snap to the next tile when moving. It feels very choppy and rough
Would it be possible to make the transition a little smoother, by making the elements slide from one tile to the next?
Thank you
Also, what are "tokens", "flags" and "tags" in your own words? Are the three terms synonymous w/ each other? They are often used interchangeably by mostly everyone here. I ask b/c when you use the terms in your posts, you appear to use tag and flag interchangeably, but usually use token in a different sense.
Regarding game dir nomenclature: does "raw" originally stand for "Rules As Written"? Or is the folder called raw in the sense that it contains "raw data"?
From what I understand you would not call AMPHIBIOUS or LARGE_PREDATOR tokens, but call them tags (specifically creature tags). In most definitions, a token is an instance of a type of object, right? So DOG is a token, and CREATURE is the type; DOG would be an instance of CREATURE. Or BLUEBERRY is a token of the object type PLANT, SKIN_TEMPLATE is a token of the object type MATERIAL_TEMPLATE (or the object type TISSUE_TEMPLATE, depending on context). FLUX is a token of REACTION_CLASS, ANGER is a token of PERSONALITY, GLACIER is a token of BIOME, etc. But PHYS_ATT_RANGE wouldn't be called a token b/c it isn't an object itself... I hope I didn't contradict myself.
@Immortal-D: Unlikely, as such adjustments aren't critical changes eligible to compete for the ever shrinking remaining development time. Such adjustments would definitely be candidates for contents in regular "current release version" updates once the Big Wait is underway, though (competing with thousands of other such changes).
@BlackAion: That sounds like one "classic" pantheon configuration that should be possible, probably with frequent twists resulting in more or less unusual sphere combinations. Note that there will probably be other possible combinations, though.
A Nature sphere ought to primarily concern the increase of "Nature", which might involve an increase in vegetation, flora and fauna diversity, suppression of unnatural influence (such as civilization), etc. Magic ought only to come into play if the influence (a god in your case) is ALSO a magic one.
Megabeasts sound like part nature, part savagery, and possibly part magic (savagery may well be an influence that gets replaced by new spheres, though).
Have you read Legends recently (or carried out combat)? Heck of a lot going on out there that isn't PG-13.@Immortal-D: Unlikely, as such adjustments aren't critical changes eligible to compete for the ever shrinking remaining development time. Such adjustments would definitely be candidates for contents in regular "current release version" updates once the Big Wait is underway, though (competing with thousands of other such changes).
@BlackAion: That sounds like one "classic" pantheon configuration that should be possible, probably with frequent twists resulting in more or less unusual sphere combinations. Note that there will probably be other possible combinations, though.
A Nature sphere ought to primarily concern the increase of "Nature", which might involve an increase in vegetation, flora and fauna diversity, suppression of unnatural influence (such as civilization), etc. Magic ought only to come into play if the influence (a god in your case) is ALSO a magic one.
Megabeasts sound like part nature, part savagery, and possibly part magic (savagery may well be an influence that gets replaced by new spheres, though).
Thanks for the quick reply but I got to ask, what powers would a God of Love/Lust even have? I am having a hard time figuring out what impacts they would have on the world that is significant but stays PG-13.
Have you read Legends recently (or carried out combat)? Heck of a lot going on out there that isn't PG-13.@Immortal-D: Unlikely, as such adjustments aren't critical changes eligible to compete for the ever shrinking remaining development time. Such adjustments would definitely be candidates for contents in regular "current release version" updates once the Big Wait is underway, though (competing with thousands of other such changes).
@BlackAion: That sounds like one "classic" pantheon configuration that should be possible, probably with frequent twists resulting in more or less unusual sphere combinations. Note that there will probably be other possible combinations, though.
A Nature sphere ought to primarily concern the increase of "Nature", which might involve an increase in vegetation, flora and fauna diversity, suppression of unnatural influence (such as civilization), etc. Magic ought only to come into play if the influence (a god in your case) is ALSO a magic one.
Megabeasts sound like part nature, part savagery, and possibly part magic (savagery may well be an influence that gets replaced by new spheres, though).
Thanks for the quick reply but I got to ask, what powers would a God of Love/Lust even have? I am having a hard time figuring out what impacts they would have on the world that is significant but stays PG-13.
Random guesses about Love and Lust:
- Less conflict (Love)
- More marriages and children (Love)
- More lovers (Love and Lust)
- More extra maritial affairs (Lust primarily)
- More master/student associations (Love, without any sexual connotations)
- Fewer murders (Love)
- More murders (of competitors, Lust)
Apart from that (and other things, of course), they'd also serve as opponents to the influence of other spheres. Some might not be head on opposition but rather at lesser angles, if the analogy makes sense. Similarly, they may modify other spheres.
- Love vs Hate
- Love vs Strife
- Love vs War
- Love vs Arrogance
- Love combining with Lust
- Love combining with Passion
- Lust vs Lethargy
- Lust combining with Hate and Strife (separately or combined)
- etc.
Spheres may also affect people's values, so people within a sphere's influence might be nudged toward aligned values. This can also be effected by making scholars within such influences more prone to write books promoting those values and less prone to write ones against them. Effects don't have to be obviously visible in the open to still affect things.
-snip-
-snip-
If it doesn't end with a questionmark then it's not a question and thus rather in suggestion land ;). Here is a thread about sphere-related magic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173189.0), if you want to continue the discussion in a place where Toady can dig it up more easily when it becomes relevant.
Quick question, how many different tiles are there for the same thing? For instance are there three different tiles for an unsmoothed stone floor or is there only one tile (in other words, piece of art work).As far as I understand it varies from tile to tile. I believe there are several variants of beds (from the same material), but "only" one for most creatures. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a defined pattern for how many variants you have for different categories of things.
Random guesses about Love and Lust:
- Less conflict (Love)
- More marriages and children (Love)
- More lovers (Love and Lust)
- More extra maritial affairs (Lust primarily)
- More master/student associations (Love, without any sexual connotations)
- Fewer murders (Love)
- More murders (of competitors, Lust)
Apart from that (and other things, of course), they'd also serve as opponents to the influence of other spheres. Some might not be head on opposition but rather at lesser angles, if the analogy makes sense. Similarly, they may modify other spheres.
- Love vs Hate
- Love vs Strife
- Love vs War
- Love vs Arrogance
- Love combining with Lust
- Love combining with Passion
- Lust vs Lethargy
- Lust combining with Hate and Strife (separately or combined)
- etc.
Spheres may also affect people's values, so people within a sphere's influence might be nudged toward aligned values. This can also be effected by making scholars within such influences more prone to write books promoting those values and less prone to write ones against them. Effects don't have to be obviously visible in the open to still affect things.
Random guesses about Love and Lust:
- Less conflict (Love)
- More marriages and children (Love)
- More lovers (Love and Lust)
- More extra maritial affairs (Lust primarily)
- More master/student associations (Love, without any sexual connotations)
- Fewer murders (Love)
- More murders (of competitors, Lust)
Apart from that (and other things, of course), they'd also serve as opponents to the influence of other spheres. Some might not be head on opposition but rather at lesser angles, if the analogy makes sense. Similarly, they may modify other spheres.
- Love vs Hate
- Love vs Strife
- Love vs War
- Love vs Arrogance
- Love combining with Lust
- Love combining with Passion
- Lust vs Lethargy
- Lust combining with Hate and Strife (separately or combined)
- etc.
Spheres may also affect people's values, so people within a sphere's influence might be nudged toward aligned values. This can also be effected by making scholars within such influences more prone to write books promoting those values and less prone to write ones against them. Effects don't have to be obviously visible in the open to still affect things.
Another interesting sphere, conceptually, is Depravity. According to the sphere relationship data, Lust and Depravity are more closely associated with each other than they are to any other in-game sphere, with Depravity being opposed to Laws.
What I'm thinking is that Depravity is the act of defying socially-acceptable behavior, while Lust is the motivation that causes one to do so. It doesn't have to be exclusively sexual lust; lust can be for money (theft) or violence (murder/assault). So maybe when a creature evaluates whether it will perform an action, its urges are pitted against its values.
A god of Lust could increase the strength of urges, while a god of Depravity could decrease the strength of values.
Orrr Lust could be exclusively sexual, considering that there doesn't seem to be another sphere specifically associated with sex.
Do you know if what you have done for Fortress will help to convert Adventure mode to new UI and graphical mode ? And which part will remain ?
Actually, you can build walls and the like in camps, though it is limited to wood that you get from felling trees. See https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Camp#Adventurer_camps and https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Adventurer_mode_gameplay#Woodcutting.2C_building_and_site_management
I bet the elves aren't very happy
Practicality of playing on a 16-16 map. With all the code updates for the big release as well as future updates, will the game ever be able to be played on a full 16-16 map? It would be a unique challenge making minecarts much more necessary. It is something I would really like to do.
Practicality of playing on a 16-16 map. With all the code updates for the big release as well as future updates, will the game ever be able to be played on a full 16-16 map? It would be a unique challenge making minecarts much more necessary. It is something I would really like to do.
even if it was incredibly well optimised, even with the best hardware on the planet - i don't think it'll ever be possible to run df at that kind of scale, and certainly not with a living world. it's just too big.
a more reasonable hope might be that you can have a few extra tiles - say 4x4 to 5x5 - and a slightly larger world / longer history.
The Dwarf Fortress year consists of 12 equal Months... But there are actually precisely 13 Lunar Cycles in each year. Is there any particular reason why these numbers don't match?Presumably because it's a simplified approximation of how things are on Earth in the real world, where the lunar cycles don't match a year at all, offsetting them from both the months and the year.
Practicality of playing on a 16-16 map. With all the code updates for the big release as well as future updates, will the game ever be able to be played on a full 16-16 map? It would be a unique challenge making minecarts much more necessary. It is something I would really like to do.Adding onto the previous responses: Only time will tell how playable it will be. There's also the issue of how low an FPS you consider "playable".
What do you mean divine metal in fortress mode? How will we be able to get our hands on it? Will we be able to get different variations?
In regards to the new mod loading system, how will total conversions be handled?
Is Technological progress planned? As in Tech being researched and developed over time, be it by player's request or organically during worldgen.
Currently the world has a stagnant tech level which i don't find fun... or !!FUN!! after all who wouldn't love to show our elven friends some new super fast flying sticks or funny explosion sticks!
Would it be possible to make the transition a little smoother, by making the elements slide from one tile to the next?
Regarding game dir nomenclature: does "raw" originally stand for "Rules As Written"? Or is the folder called raw in the sense that it contains "raw data"?
Also, what are "tokens", "flags" and "tags" in your own words? Are the three terms synonymous w/ each other? They are often used interchangeably by mostly everyone here. I ask b/c when you use the terms in your posts, you appear to use tag and flag interchangeably, but usually use token in a different sense.
From what I understand you would not call AMPHIBIOUS or LARGE_PREDATOR tokens, but call them tags (specifically creature tags). In most definitions, a token is an instance of a type of object, right? So DOG is a token, and CREATURE is the type; DOG would be an instance of CREATURE. Or BLUEBERRY is a token of the object type PLANT, SKIN_TEMPLATE is a token of the object type MATERIAL_TEMPLATE (or the object type TISSUE_TEMPLATE, depending on context). FLUX is a token of REACTION_CLASS, ANGER is a token of PERSONALITY, GLACIER is a token of BIOME, etc. But PHYS_ATT_RANGE wouldn't be called a token b/c it isn't an object itself... I hope I didn't contradict myself.
Do you have any idea what the new release number will be? Currently, it's 0.47.05. Are we looking at another 0.4x.00 release, or are we going to be hitting or even exceeding the 0.5x.00 milestone?
1. The fantasy landscape has changed a whole lot ever since DF was released. Do you still see the game as a "generic fantasy simulator" or something that has its own sort of twist on the fantasy genre now?
2. Speaking of fantasy, have you been reading/watching/playing anything fantasy related? If so, does your lectures/watchings/playthroughs give you inspiration for future DF content?
3. Sometimes I look at DF's beastiary and wonder why was this or that animal/fantasy creature was added. What exactly qualifies as a good candidate for a new addition to the game's roster of creatures to you?
Are there any plans to revise the list of critters that can be Tamed and War-Trained before Steam? For example; Grizzly Bear has both, Black Bear has neither. Dragons can be war-trained, but are born Adult and so never fully Tamed in the first place.
Quote from: BlackAionWill the Myth and Magic Release have gods of all categories (e.g. Gods of War, Sea, Lust etc.) and with all the respective magics that come with those titles?
Like will the physical manifestation of say a God Of Nature cause various magical creatures to come existence, magical forests to be made, and increase the number of Megabeasts?Quote from: BlackAionThanks for the quick reply but I got to ask, what powers would a God of Love/Lust even have? I am having a hard time figuring out what impacts they would have on the world that is significant but stays PG-13.
1.Will we ever get to see the procedural tavern games?
2.During the Premium gameplay livestream I saw an option called "Economy: Normal/Hard". What does that mean?
Currently, dwarves can embark at any place in the world (barring mountains, water) regardless of how difficult or dangerous the travel there would be. Will this ever change, or will the dwarves always be able to set up a fort in the middle of an evil biome, for the sake of player freedom?
What kind of changes are planned for adventure mode? By which i mean: what shortcomings do you think it has, and what are your ideas for solving said problems
(the UI is the obvious one) but im hoping for some minor new mechanics to address things, i really like the idea of the irritation mechanic for instance. Super interested in what he has to say
Quick question, how many different tiles are there for the same thing? For instance are there three different tiles for an unsmoothed stone floor or is there only one tile (in other words, piece of art work).
Why are dwarves unable to wield melee and ranged weapons simultaneously (as they are meant to function at least) they can carry both, and will train and fight with their melee weapons just fine, but the second a fight starts or you set them to train their ranged skills, they drop all of their picked up ammunition and get stuck in a loop trying to pick it up again (or ignore it to fight their target and come back) are they just not meant to be able to, or is it a bug.
Do you foresee any problems with the future of the fortress and similar community centric practices given the presumably enlarged community?
According to the latest blogpost we will be able to "append a few lines to existing entries". If I understand this right it should also be possible to remove or alter most tokens by having these new tokens be creature variation tokens (CV_REMOVE_TAG and CV_CONVERT_TAG). Is this right?
And if it is, is there some way to do this for objects other than creatures, since the current creature variations only work on those? And is there a way of changing what creature variations have been assigned at an earlier stage, e.g. changing SLUG_MAN to use ANIMAL_PERSON instead of ANIMAL_PERSON_LEGLESS?
Do you know if what you have done for Fortress will help to convert Adventure mode to new UI and graphical mode ? And which part will remain ?
Practicality of playing on a 16-16 map. With all the code updates for the big release as well as future updates, will the game ever be able to be played on a full 16-16 map? It would be a unique challenge making minecarts much more necessary. It is something I would really like to do.
The Dwarf Fortress year consists of 12 equal Months... But there are actually precisely 13 Lunar Cycles in each year. Is there any particular reason why these numbers don't match?
Will certain materials be grouped together as the same color for simplicity just like in the f2p Dwarf Fortress game? (i.e. Andesite, Basalt, Chromite, Claystone, Diorite, Gabbro, Graphite, Hornblende, Ilmenite, Jet, Mica, Pyrolusite, Rhyolite, Shale, and Slate all being Dark Gray in appearance.)
If not, will there be a specific color for ever possible construction material?
71 types of wood (including "normal" and "wagon")
12 non-economic stones (Shale, Granite, Gneiss, etc.)
13 economic stones (Marble, Obsidian, etc.)
40 "other" stones (Stones found within deposits of other stones. i.e. "Periclase" veins are sometimes found in Marble layers.)
17 ores (Native metals and minerals like Galena)
25 types of metal (pure and alloys)
3 types of glass (green, clear, crystal)
3 types of ceramic bricks (earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain)
6 bars (Ash, Charcoal, Coke, Pearlash, Potash, and Soap)
190 total colors for constructed materials?
If every material gets its own color, will all 65 types of boulders have different colors to distinguish them from their brick counter parts? (eco, non-eco, and "other" stone)
Will there be variations in the final product beyond just color?
I know that roads made with boulders are given the "rough" modifier, while roads made with cut stone are not. Will that "rough" modifier be applied visually?
Will there be a visual difference between the materials I use in the construction (i.e. Wood, Stone, Ore, and Brick) or will they all follow the same design and just palette swap?
Will objects like wheelbarrows and minecarts also have varying color palettes, or will this super cool feature be limited to construction?
Bonus Round:
Will you finally be implementing Pearls, coral, and Amber into the game?
Will the Steam Release see building destroyers taking down constructed walls?This is part of the updated sieges additions that were planned to follow the Villains update before Steam suddenly derailed everything (in a good way, I guess).
It's fairly easy to just plug your fortress up and never "lose".
There will probably be secrets and effects related to lust/love/etc spheres etc yeah, but there's not going to be anything even remotely explicit, or even suggestive, because Toady has always insisted on keeping everything PG(13ish,, including all the violence)
Why don't hair, nails, and a couple of other tissues that grow back in real life have healing rates? They aren't exactly vital organs, but it sucks losing a dwarf to an infected beard wound that won't heal.
I'm going to be upgrading my PC soon. How is the new version's multithreading/multiple CPU core use looking?
In the past I've prioritized processor speed over core count because of Dwarf Fortress, and I'd like to know whether I should continue to do so, lol
The main bottleneck seems to be memory bandwidth rather than raw CPU speed.
The main bottleneck seems to be memory bandwidth rather than raw CPU speed.
PatrikLundell is right, The wiki recommends fast ram and a large cache (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:System_requirements#CPU).
Reducing memory usage/size would probably be a better optimization, Since more data could fit in the L1 cache(Which is very fast).
PatrikLundell is right, The wiki recommends fast ram and a large cache (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:System_requirements#CPU).
Reducing memory usage/size would probably be a better optimization, Since more data could fit in the L1 cache(Which is very fast).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t each core in a multi-core processor have it’s own L1 cache? Currently (with DF being single-threaded), the game only uses the L1 cache on a single core. Would it be possible to split the map into multiple l x m x n 3d segments and have each segment simulated by a separate core, with an additional core handling communications and synchronization between segments (and, of course, an additional core handling graphics)?
Thanks for the replies Tarn! Here is a new batch of question for the next FotF!
Originally I was gonna ask about boats because you mentionned O'Brian's sailing books, but hey, too early to talk about that.
So given that we'll get the Myth and Magic update after the Steam Release (?), I wanted to ask a few questions regarding that.
Real-Life mythologies, although sometimes chaotic and having varying degrees of consistency depending on the period, have some form of inner-logic. There is a reason for this or that god to be there, or this or that agent of the gods to exist. DF's current handling of the gods is quite ubiquitous at times. Do you plan on actually retooling or entirely reworking the way Myths work so to generate some that are more accurate to the way real mythologies are formed/written?
C(++) is also unsuitable for multi threading, although it's used for a lot of things it's not suited for because a lot of people's only tool is a hammer, so every problem is a nail.
Would it be possible in the Myth and Magic expansion to create sky worlds? Like worlds where the continents are floating and the oceans are an endless sea of clouds? Or worlds where you live on the back of a turtle or worlds where it is literally one big giant tree?In principle the answer is yes. The goal is to allow for these kind of things. However, the first arc certainly won't implement everything, and may only have small entries into these kind of things, and it may even wait until the moving equipment arc to actually be implemented to any extent. Floating islands and cloud worlds are definitely thinks that the map rewrite part is intended to enable, but providing a foundation is not the same as implementing the contents on top of it.
Right. Might as well come up with another question then.Thanks for the replies Tarn! Here is a new batch of question for the next FotF!
Originally I was gonna ask about boats because you mentionned O'Brian's sailing books, but hey, too early to talk about that.
So given that we'll get the Myth and Magic update after the Steam Release (?), I wanted to ask a few questions regarding that.
Real-Life mythologies, although sometimes chaotic and having varying degrees of consistency depending on the period, have some form of inner-logic. There is a reason for this or that god to be there, or this or that agent of the gods to exist. DF's current handling of the gods is quite ubiquitous at times. Do you plan on actually retooling or entirely reworking the way Myths work so to generate some that are more accurate to the way real mythologies are formed/written?
I expect the answer from Toady to be simply "yes", as it is indeed planned to be half of that update. There are some old demos of it (as in showcases, the myth-demo software isn't available to us), and he also talks a bunch about it in the recent DF Talks. #24 I think has the highest concentration.
Are there plans to add more gameplay features for forts with 'Mountainhome' status, e.g. ability to direct the overall civilisation, declare wars, expand the civ, etc? Or is there any other 'end-game' type content you have been thinking about?
Thanks and much love
I wonder will the myth and magic update have stuff like people who became saints or siddha and will you be able to become one how do you make this lime green?
[color=limegreen]like this[/color]
(becomes "like this")
"Civilization mode" would be so cool, worldgen is already kinda like an AI-only 4X game. And think of the possibilities for adventurers like court intrigue to become king or simply staging a coup and then fighting a civil war against the now-dead king's loyalists.Are there plans to add more gameplay features for forts with 'Mountainhome' status, e.g. ability to direct the overall civilisation, declare wars, expand the civ, etc? Or is there any other 'end-game' type content you have been thinking about?
Thanks and much love
Having an optional 4x strategy game would be cool, But this would probably tie in better with Adventure Mode IMO. Becoming king could allow you to manipulate things on a larger scale.
Will the appearance description of any dwarf/human/elf/etc. receive an overhaul as well in preparation for the myth and magic update? The thoughts and preferences of any individual goes in-depth into any particular dwarfs personality but doesnt really describes their build or physique other than saying they are weak or strong. As there been any thoughts in simplifying the personality lore and adding more depth to physique descriptions?
Will the appearance description of any dwarf/human/elf/etc. receive an overhaul as well in preparation for the myth and magic update? The thoughts and preferences of any individual goes in-depth into any particular dwarfs personality but doesnt really describes their build or physique other than saying they are weak or strong. As there been any thoughts in simplifying the personality lore and adding more depth to physique descriptions?
It actually goes into detail, it's just that the extremes are rather rare, so you don't see them that often. But there are a lot of physique descriptors, like, a whole lot. Here's all of them:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Simplifying personality to add random shit like "his left arm is slightly more muscular than the rest of his body" sounds atrocious. Either have both at the same time or change nothing.
Will the appearance description of any dwarf/human/elf/etc. receive an overhaul as well in preparation for the myth and magic update? The thoughts and preferences of any individual goes in-depth into any particular dwarfs personality but doesnt really describes their build or physique other than saying they are weak or strong. As there been any thoughts in simplifying the personality lore and adding more depth to physique descriptions?
It actually goes into detail, it's just that the extremes are rather rare, so you don't see them that often. But there are a lot of physique descriptors, like, a whole lot. Here's all of them:
[spoiler]snip
Yes but each line is just that. One singular line describing that particular dwarfs physique. Considering this is Dwarf Fortress, I was honestly expecting it to go in depth into the fat to muscle ratio of a single arm, how long that arm is, how thick his/her arm bones are etc.
Simplifying personality to add random shit like "his left arm is slightly more muscular than the rest of his body" sounds atrocious. Either have both at the same time or change nothing.
bin storage jobs no longer stop other jobs from using the bin
On a side note, I saw something about a “vermin catcher’s workshop”. What’s that about?
I would like to know more about necromancer experiments: the huge amalgations mentioned in legends Mode, which seem to rampage like (semi)megabeasts. Is it possible to meet them in fortress mode or adventure mode? Would two of the same species be able to breed? I would like to know if they could even break away from their necromancer and join societies.
Thanks for creating this amazing game, Toady!
On the old consolidated development page, one of the categories of things to do was called "bloats". Considering that this is a word that generally has derogatory connotations, why was it selected to describe this category?
I would like to know more about necromancer experiments: the huge amalgations mentioned in legends Mode, which seem to rampage like (semi)megabeasts. Is it possible to meet them in fortress mode or adventure mode? Would two of the same species be able to breed? I would like to know if they could even break away from their necromancer and join societies.It's some times possible to play as them in adventurer mode, because the sapient ones can join civilizations. As explained on the wiki:
Thanks for creating this amazing game, Toady!
Experiments sometimes escape into the wild, and intelligent ones can rejoin civilization - in the latter case, they may become playable race options in adventurer mode.
According to Wiktionary, bloat has a derogatory, dated meaning of "a worthless, dissipated fellow". Is this what you're referring to, or is there a new bad slang?No. I was referring to the usage of "bloat" as a shorthand for code bloat or software bloat in a computer context.
Despite feature creep usually having a bad connotation (in programming sense), it is what made DF the game it is now[…]Is that really a good thing? I can't think of any way that bloat could possibly make a program better, and the examples i can think of that DF has (the first things that come to mind are the many redundant types of wood, stone, gems, etc. which don't have any significant differences between them) don't seem like exceptions.
Similarly to the recent changes to the jeweler's workshop, are there plans to also adjust some of the other generic "do things with thing" tasks so that they can be made more functional? For instance, jobs at a farmer's workshop don't let you specify what to process, milling jobs don't let you specify what to mill, and cooking jobs don't let you specify what ingredients to use (you can broadly say what you want to allow to cook or not cook, but you can't, say, set up a cooking task specifically to cook away all that flour or sugar you keep producing).It can be noted that the functionality for specifying the components for tasks is present in DF, but the UI to use it isn't. Thus, you can specify what ingredients to use for a cooking task using a DFHack script, so that level of specification is purely a UI job (which still isn't done instantly).
Also, similar to the bin changes, have you also considered making a similar change to bags/barrels? Farms in particular are notorious for seed barrels (and to a lesser extent, seed bags) having the same effect as bins.
Why is (kobold ore) cobaltite represented as a blue ore in game? And why can't we use it for anything?
Just curious about this. Were there plans at one point to make blue glass or blue porcelain a thing?
I always forget when I mine this stuff, that I can't turn it into anything other than blue furniture.
Why do beetles live at the circus?
Lol sorry, no punch-line for this one! I just found a couple of these lil' buddies pokin' around in the slade while taking a stroll in adventure mode. I backpacked a couple of them back to the fortress to make for a neat little bug exhibit for the dwarves, and I couldn't help but wonder what they were doing down there.
Have you ever seen those sheep that live on the Isle of Man?
Image from Wikipedia:They're called Manx Loaghtan sheep.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[OBJECT:BODY]
[BODY:NOSE]
[BP:NOSE:nose:STP]
When does the game shows the plural version of body parts? Like "right upper arms" instead of "right upper arm"? Everywhere I've checked, it just seems to either list each individual part one by one, or show the non-plural version and a number beside it.
Or I guess to get to the root of what I really want to know: body tokens accept the value `STP` which just takes the normal name and adds an `s` on the end; STP standing for "standard plural" I believe:Code: [Select][OBJECT:BODY]
[BODY:NOSE]
[BP:NOSE:nose:STP]
But I want to know if it also accepts the value `NP`, which stands for "no plural", and is used in other places in the raws. Would it accept NP as intended (making the plural of "nose" also just be "nose"), or would it literally just use the letters "NP" for the plural version of the name?
Why is (kobold ore) cobaltite represented as a blue ore in game? And why can't we use it for anything?
Just curious about this. Were there plans at one point to make blue glass or blue porcelain a thing?
I always forget when I mine this stuff, that I can't turn it into anything other than blue furniture.
Why do beetles live at the circus?
Lol sorry, no punch-line for this one! I just found a couple of these lil' buddies pokin' around in the slade while taking a stroll in adventure mode. I backpacked a couple of them back to the fortress to make for a neat little bug exhibit for the dwarves, and I couldn't help but wonder what they were doing down there.
Have you ever seen those sheep that live on the Isle of Man?
Image from Wikipedia:They're called Manx Loaghtan sheep.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
1, cobaltite smithing wasn't widely available until after the 1400 cutoff date for tech in df, metallic cobalt wasn't isolated until 1735. Back in the day, it was used as a pigment (the source of the bright blue color) for glassware and paints, but not known to produce useful metal, and attempting to smelt it with traditional methods (what dwarves have available) produces toxic arsenic gas. We might see it as a pigment later on. There's been a lot of debate in the community about whether or not dwarves should be able to smelt the metal anyway, but it's not a priority in game development and can be easily modded in anyway. Cobalt metal would only really make another trade alloy or poor quality weapon material anyway
According to Wiktionary, bloat has a derogatory, dated meaning of "a worthless, dissipated fellow". Is this what you're referring to, or is there a new bad slang?No. I was referring to the usage of "bloat" as a shorthand for code bloat or software bloat in a computer context.Despite feature creep usually having a bad connotation (in programming sense), it is what made DF the game it is now[…]Is that really a good thing? I can't think of any way that bloat could possibly make a program better, and the examples i can think of that DF has (the first things that come to mind are the many redundant types of wood, stone, gems, etc. which don't have any significant differences between them) don't seem like exceptions.
Will succession forts/trading savegames be possible in the initial steam release, or will it take some time for that to be possible?
Why don't hair, nails, and a couple of other tissues that grow back in real life have healing rates? They aren't exactly vital organs, but it sucks losing a dwarf to an infected beard wound that won't heal.
How is the new version's multithreading/multiple CPU core use looking?
Real-Life mythologies, although sometimes chaotic and having varying degrees of consistency depending on the period, have some form of inner-logic. There is a reason for this or that god to be there, or this or that agent of the gods to exist. DF's current handling of the gods is quite ubiquitous at times. Do you plan on actually retooling or entirely reworking the way Myths work so to generate some that are more accurate to the way real mythologies are formed/written?
Would it be possible in the Myth and Magic expansion to create sky worlds? Like worlds where the continents are floating and the oceans are an endless sea of clouds? Or worlds where you live on the back of a turtle or worlds where it is literally one big giant tree?
Are there plans to add more gameplay features for forts with 'Mountainhome' status, e.g. ability to direct the overall civilisation, declare wars, expand the civ, etc? Or is there any other 'end-game' type content you have been thinking about?
I wonder will the myth and magic update have stuff like people who became saints or siddha and will you be able to become one
Was diagonal gaps removing water pressure an intentional feature, and if not, do you feel like you can't change it now?
Will the appearance description of any dwarf/human/elf/etc. receive an overhaul as well in preparation for the myth and magic update? The thoughts and preferences of any individual goes in-depth into any particular dwarfs personality but doesnt really describes their build or physique other than saying they are weak or strong. As there been any thoughts in simplifying the personality lore and adding more depth to physique descriptions?
Will the new raw formatting be released before the game is, so modders get a chance to prepare their mods?
[ID:vanilla_buildings]
[NUMERIC_VERSION:5001]
[DISPLAYED_VERSION:50.01]
[EARLIEST_COMPATIBLE_NUMERIC_VERSION:5001]
[EARLIEST_COMPATIBLE_DISPLAYED_VERSION:50.01]
[AUTHOR:Bay 12 Games]
[NAME:Vanilla Buildings]
[DESCRIPTION:These are the default Dwarf Fortress buildings.]
[REQUIRES_ID:<id>]
[REQUIRES_ID_BEFORE_ME:<id>]
[REQUIRES_ID_AFTER_ME:<id>]
[CONFLICTS_WITH_ID:<id>]
In a similar vein as to the recent (Oct. 22nd) devlog, is it possible to clean up some of the decoration jobs? Right now there's a twofold issue: inability to specify exactly what object to decorate, and inability to avoid "repeat" decorations. The former means you have to set up very specific stockpiles to decorate, say, a very specific statue, and the latter means you can only decorate one thing at a time— if you try to queue up decorating, say, several statues with gemstones, you'll instead just decorate the first one with all the gemstones.
The rest of that devlog made me incredibly excited for the release; thank you so much for your hard work!
On a side note, I saw something about a “vermin catcher’s workshop”. What’s that about?
Are there any plans to revamp or add onto the bug tracker for Steam release? Or will Steam users also be directed to the catch-all Mantis archive?
Bit of an odd question, but I was hoping to add the crayon drawing I received to the wiki as an illustration on a creature page. Could you confirm whether this picture depicts a draltha or a drunian? (I requested a draltha but the colours and body shape threw me off, so now I'm second-guessing and don't want to put it on the wrong page.)
I would like to know more about necromancer experiments: the huge amalgations mentioned in legends Mode, which seem to rampage like (semi)megabeasts. Is it possible to meet them in fortress mode or adventure mode? Would two of the same species be able to breed? I would like to know if they could even break away from their necromancer and join societies.
Creatures use the same color descriptions as wood and stone. Will creatures like dogs and cats also vary in color based on those colors, like furniture and dwarves will?
On the old consolidated development page, one of the categories of things to do was called "bloats". Considering that this is a word that generally has derogatory connotations, why was it selected to describe this category?
Similarly to the recent changes to the jeweler's workshop, are there plans to also adjust some of the other generic "do things with thing" tasks so that they can be made more functional? For instance, jobs at a farmer's workshop don't let you specify what to process, milling jobs don't let you specify what to mill, and cooking jobs don't let you specify what ingredients to use (you can broadly say what you want to allow to cook or not cook, but you can't, say, set up a cooking task specifically to cook away all that flour or sugar you keep producing).
Also, similar to the bin changes, have you also considered making a similar change to bags/barrels? Farms in particular are notorious for seed barrels (and to a lesser extent, seed bags) having the same effect as bins.
When I first played DF, it was the bin bug that got me close to losing my mind. Especially with farm seeds. Didn’t end up encountering too many other bugs. The bin one took way too much googling back then to figure out. So grateful it’s been purged.
How does it feel to be resolving issues like that which you’ve had in the code for so long? Also, how are you prioritizing which bugs to fix/QoL stuff to add?
Does Kitfox have a stream of people new to the game getting fresh eyes on it to point out things that frustrate? Or is it mostly experienced dorfs giving suggestions, or do you feel you’ve got a good sense of what has needed fixing for awhile and just haven’t had time to do it until now?
Seems like a big priority for this release is making sure the thousands (millions?) of people who are first exposed don’t lose their minds with bugs/complexity right off the bat. Are you nervous about that period/response?
Why is (kobold ore) cobaltite represented as a blue ore in game? And why can't we use it for anything?
Just curious about this. Were there plans at one point to make blue glass or blue porcelain a thing?
I always forget when I mine this stuff, that I can't turn it into anything other than blue furniture.
Why do beetles live at the circus?
Lol sorry, no punch-line for this one! I just found a couple of these lil' buddies pokin' around in the slade while taking a stroll in adventure mode. I backpacked a couple of them back to the fortress to make for a neat little bug exhibit for the dwarves, and I couldn't help but wonder what they were doing down there.
Have you ever seen those sheep that live on the Isle of Man?
They're called Manx Loaghtan sheep.
1. Is there anything planned in the future to allow vampires to produce blood in order to transmit vampirism. Currently you can fill a goblet with vampire tainted blood and offer it to an NPC to drink but this method involves you having to wound and collect your own blood or another vampires.
2. Will title inheritance at some point get an overhall so each civ have different title inheritance rules. Currently i believe it looks for the offspring with the best social stats and failing that i believe the title goes randomly. So perhaps one dwarven civilization establishes absolute cognatic primogeniture whilst another decides on ultimogeniture. Additionally would this if implemented could change depending on the dwarf.
3. Will religions be unrestricted in adventure mode, as currently you have to be of that race of the civilization in order to choose one of their religons so if i was a bark scorpion man coming from a dwarven civilisation i cannot choose to worship any gods even of the civilization i am apart of. To further this, apart from assuming identity will you consider enabling the ability in adventure mode to find faith or pray to a god. Could make for an interesting story if an adventurer found faith on their journey or perhaps begun to worship a new god.
1.Will civilizations get evolving ethics?
2.I think it's pretty silly how you can slaughter all your visitors and they still keep coming. Will we get a visitor reputation system in the near future?
3.Will we get the option to surrender to the invading force and become part of their civilization?
4.Will there ever be a personality trait that makes people enjoy seeing death and violence?
5.Right now your military will charge mindlessly into the enemy and jump into moats. Will they get a better ai before magic?
6.Will we ever get sports in our fortresses?
When does the game shows the plural version of body parts? Like "right upper arms" instead of "right upper arm"? Everywhere I've checked, it just seems to either list each individual part one by one, or show the non-plural version and a number beside it.
Or I guess to get to the root of what I really want to know: body tokens accept the value `STP` which just takes the normal name and adds an `s` on the end; STP standing for "standard plural" I believe:
[OBJECT:BODY]
[BODY:NOSE]
[BP:NOSE:nose:STP]
But I want to know if it also accepts the value `NP`, which stands for "no plural", and is used in other places in the raws. Would it accept NP as intended (making the plural of "nose" also just be "nose"), or would it literally just use the letters "NP" for the plural version of the name?
Quote from: PillboWhat were you for Halloween? (Or what would you like to be if you had taken the time to put together a costume?)Quote from: A_Curious_CatHave the two of you ever considered dressing up as a toad and a sloth for Halloween?
Will succession forts/trading savegames be possible in the initial steam release, or will it take some time for that to be possible?
1. Assuming it's finalized now, how many music tracks are there now?
2. Where are the classic tracks going now, since apparently there is new menu music, and legends mode also has custom music for it?
3. It's been asked before, but... is there any news on what's happening with the intro movie?
So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Now that we have a release date, I am curious if any steamers/Let’s Players are being given early copies of the game to try out so they can release videos on the day of release and really get the initial ball rolling even harder.
I know you've said there won't be save game backward compatibility in the Steam release from previous versions, but will the various world gen seeds still produce the same worlds, terrain, civs, etc?That's unlikely.
How moddable will DF be with workshop support? will people be able to change core features of the game (different farming mechanics, different combat mechanics, new systems, etc) or will it be limited to using modules already in the engine?
In a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.That is simple. A dwarf makes the First Artifact Anvil out of some other material. From there, the forging of the first regular anvil can be accomplished and sent out into the world.
Except to make an artifact anvil, you need a metalworking mood... Which can only be carried out at a forge, so you're back where you started.In a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.That is simple. A dwarf makes the First Artifact Anvil out of some other material. From there, the forging of the first regular anvil can be accomplished and sent out into the world.
Except to make an artifact anvil, you need a metalworking mood... Which can only be carried out at a forge, so you're back where you started.In a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.That is simple. A dwarf makes the First Artifact Anvil out of some other material. From there, the forging of the first regular anvil can be accomplished and sent out into the world.
In a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.
:
2. Climate bands would be very nice to have, rather than the random distribution of deserts and jungles, even if the implementation was "quick and dirty" so to speak. Any plans to include that? And trade winds? Oh I can see how this would affect boats and trade... hmmmmm....
:
What sort of FPS does the new version run at? Have there been optimisations that make it run faster?
Can you limit the fort's population size from inside the game now, rather than having to do it through the init files?
For that matter, have most of the modifiable values which affect gameplay which were located in the init and d_init files been put into the main game?
I've edited my initial question for clarity. And I think I see your reasoning, though I am unsure if I agree with it, in regards to what is 'tangential.' But that's ultimately a matter of what is planned. If boats and trade weren't in the pipeline, I think I would agree more that is superfluous.
As the CDDA guy, I'm sure that you can understand the value of just a little generalization for 'future proofing' ;) (*cough* Z-Levels *cough*)
The foundation is required, but not the implementation itself.
You mentioned in the interview the other day that the 200 or so animal people don't have the layers info in their graphics RAWS to show clothing, hairstyles and such visually. That's a lot of data, so seems reasonable.
2. Is there a way to disable/toggle certain raw files, within a single mod/package from the workshop? For example, after downloading a "More Creatures" mod from the workshop, having some ingame menu that lets you toggle say, amphibians off but keep the mod's birds. Or alternatively, some other solution that allows a single Workshop subscription/page to contain what is technically multiple mods (so that "granular" mods don't have to post a million entries to the workshop).
How far off is the Improved Mechanics Update? (feasible trap mechanisms, springs, gears, ropes, pullies, piping, conveyer belts, maybe rock crushers, hydraulics?, Pneumatics?, etc.)Likely would be part of the "Moving Fortress Parts and Ships" arc (by the current release schedule, which could very easily change of course).
When will the caravans become more selective in the items they are willing to buy as well as the prices they put on items. They would act as real traders other then garbage collectors. They give a list of what they will accept. They may be convinced to take other stuff if it is of high quality and rare however.
The Dwarf Fortress development page mentions "automatons and magical prostheses" as part of Myth&Magic. These features seems innocent on the surface level, but actually raise a lot of question (hopefully not too many to answer):
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
2. How will prostheses fair in comparison to the original body part?
3. Will there be magical prosthetics that give the user magic powers?
4. Will it be possible to:
4,1. attach a prosthetic in addition to a being's natural body parts? Imagine a craftsdwarf having 4 arms, 2 natural and 2 artificial, increasing work speed.
4,2. replace a healthy body part with a prosthetic one?
4,3. mix and match parts (replace a dwarf's legs with prosthetic arms)?
5. How much of a dwarf's body can be replaced until he is considered an automaton?
6. Will automatons be able to take roles of nobility?
7. Will there be automaton models besides the standard humanoid worker?
8. What will be the upkeep costs of an automaton (I presume they won't need food and alcohol)?
9. Will you be able to have an automaton-exclusive fortress or play as an automaton in adventure mode?
10. Will it be possible for one to achieve immortality not via necromancy, but by replacing aging flesh with machinery/putting one's soul into an automaton body?[/color]
Thank you in advance!
The Dwarf Fortress development page mentions "automatons and magical prostheses" as part of Myth&Magic. These features seems innocent on the surface level, but actually raise a lot of question (hopefully not too many to answer):
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
2. How will prostheses fair in comparison to the original body part?
3. Will there be magical prosthetics that give the user magic powers?
4. Will it be possible to:
4,1. attach a prosthetic in addition to a being's natural body parts? Imagine a craftsdwarf having 4 arms, 2 natural and 2 artificial, increasing work speed.
4,2. replace a healthy body part with a prosthetic one?
4,3. mix and match parts (replace a dwarf's legs with prosthetic arms)?
5. How much of a dwarf's body can be replaced until he is considered an automaton?
6. Will automatons be able to take roles of nobility?
7. Will there be automaton models besides the standard humanoid worker?
8. What will be the upkeep costs of an automaton (I presume they won't need food and alcohol)?
9. Will you be able to have an automaton-exclusive fortress or play as an automaton in adventure mode?
10. Will it be possible for one to achieve immortality not via necromancy, but by replacing aging flesh with machinery/putting one's soul into an automaton body?[/color]
Thank you in advance!
Not Toady, but:
1. Probably; prostheses will have to be coded to be able to act as stand-ins for body parts and their functions (eg, GRASP), so why not the other functions as well?
2. Definitely would vary from world-to-world, and situation to situation. Some prostheses will be crude peg-legs and hook hands (pretty much all worlds will have this I imagine), others will be magical automail arms, others may be literally fully living organic replacements, or even be improvements over the original.
3. Definitely, in some worlds; prosthetics would be some sort of item/equipment/body part blend, and all of these are going to have potential to be magical.
4. I wouldn't be surprised if all of these were possible, given that lots of weird body transformation stuff is planned anyway.
5. May depend on the world. I'd guess it would be whenever their thought body part is replaced, and/or their soul is lost/replaced. What's the difference between a "flesh automaton" and a "normal person"? It's all fuzzy, just words.
6. Probably, depending on what "automaton" means, and may vary. Some may be mindless servants that can't act without orders from their creator, others may be freely willed beings. This answer goes for question 9 as well.
7. Absolutely; there's no way this game of all things will have hardcoded automaton models, especially in an update that aims to procedurally generate entire races. I guarantee that automatons will be treated in the code much like normal creatures are, but with relevant differences like different materials for their body parts, and different sustenance requirements etc (in many ways, a Bronze Colossus could be considered an "automaton" already, just uncontrollable and impossible to create).
8. Will vary from world to world without a doubt. Some will require absolutely nothing, some will require sacrifices of the best crops to the god of metal every full moon, others will be fueled by flesh & blood and will seek it out on their own accord, others will require the concentration/mana of their creator... And of course, some may need food.
10. Almost certainly, in some worlds. I expect there will be many of ways to achieve immortality, and many of them revolving around putting one's soul into something that doesn't age. Note that not all worlds may even have a such thing as souls at all (eg, the "zero magic" worlds).
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
Following up on a question I asked for the October FOTF reply, I assume the version number has been finalized by now? If so, what will it be?
- How do we identify the differences between animals and their savage giant cousins? Do they have different art, or are they larger than a single tile?
- Are there any Beasts/Titans that will take up more than one tile, or is that something you're not interested in doing?
- Will we be able to visually identify wild plants, or will we still need to mouse over/select them?
SOONISH
For the months following launch, we have more graphics we want to add. We'd like specific graphics for more plants (evergreens, real world plants, etc), for example, and we'd also love to put in images for baby animals instead of just scaling down the adult versions. Kittens and red panda cubs and giant eaglets!
So is ORANGE confirmed for being a new color in classic?The underlying system is the same for both Premium and Classic, which means that color restriction is lifted in both. Obviously, actually using the newly available colors requires an active effort, so I wouldn't expect color coding of glyph images to have been redone en masse, as someone would have to do that manually, and that's probably not a high priority task. Using newly available colors in the UI when said UI has to be redone anyway is a natural thing, though.
I was looking at some of the screenshots you had hosted of the new classic mode recently, when I noticed the color difference.
(https://i.imgur.com/No36GX2.png)
So is ORANGE confirmed for being a new color in classic?
I was looking at some of the screenshots you had hosted of the new classic mode recently, when I noticed the color difference.
(https://i.imgur.com/No36GX2.png)
item_helm
[OBJECT:ITEM]
Boy, been a long time since I've really done anything on the forum. But with The Release nearly upon us and the soundtrack already open to our ears now.I imagine they'll be easy enough to slot into the soundtrack as a basic mod. But, yeah, more official Simon Swerwer tracks can never be a bad thing.
Now that we've got a listen for the soundtrack, I want to preface my question with reassurances that the ambient music tracks are absolutely amazing and I'll probably listen to them when I go to sleep later.
At the same time, The vocal tracks like Drink & Industry and a very clearly upgraded Koganusan have given me goosebumps on a wholly different level. Assuming there are no hidden surprises on the music front for The Release, what are the chances of other vocal tracks such as Tankard Basher and Danger Room, or even more all-new tracks finding their way into future updates?
6. You said in the AMA that duplicated raws are still an issue (no automatic overwriting to resolve conflicts), but that "you could do a select and delete to remove old entries with an intervening mod if you like"
That phrasing intrigues me; does that mean simply that old mods (which now includes vanilla files) can be disabled/not loaded in the first place (by the user at world creation)?
Or are you implying that mods actually have a "delete previously defined versions of X object if it exists" command of sorts, like:Code: [Select][EDIT:CREATURE:DWARF]
Or something akin to that, that lets later mods define their own "fresh" dwarf (or just delete dwarves altogether) while still loading all the other vanilla creatures? (and likewise for other object types like items, buildings, entities etc)
[REMOVE_OBJECT]
6. You said in the AMA that duplicated raws are still an issue (no automatic overwriting to resolve conflicts), but that "you could do a select and delete to remove old entries with an intervening mod if you like"
That phrasing intrigues me; does that mean simply that old mods (which now includes vanilla files) can be disabled/not loaded in the first place (by the user at world creation)?
Or are you implying that mods actually have a "delete previously defined versions of X object if it exists" command of sorts, like:Code: [Select][EDIT:CREATURE:DWARF]
Or something akin to that, that lets later mods define their own "fresh" dwarf (or just delete dwarves altogether) while still loading all the other vanilla creatures? (and likewise for other object types like items, buildings, entities etc)
[REMOVE_OBJECT]
Putnam mentions a "CUT_CREATURE" in this Reddit comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/z9tuf8/steam_community_update_1_december_2022_dwarf/iyjz10d). It seems to be it. (I've gathered they've helped out Toady, why they know the new system)
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Are the vanilla raws split into multiple zipped folders going forwards, or was the "vanilla_buildings" example just an example?
I personally think that 30$ is a good price for such awesome game but people in russian community ask about possible region prices.
In a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.
This may have been asked before, But how much test coverage does your code have?(2022)
How moddable will DF be with workshop support? will people be able to change core features of the game (different farming mechanics, different combat mechanics, new systems, etc) or will it be limited to using modules already in the engine?
Will you include earnings from the Premium version in the monthly Bay 12 Reports? It's hard to speak for others, but I know I would appreciate the transparency.
Also, if it hasn't been disclosed by this point (the start of December), will DF Classic/ASCII mode be ready at the Premium launch?
1.Will non grazing animals require food before magic?
2.Right now adventure mode is basically unplayable in big cities. Will we get the option to add a population cap to sites?
3.Will gods have personalities after magic?
4.What can we expect the villains to do in our forts once the Villain Update is done?
Just watched the new video by Kitfox on YouTube, and I’ve got a question. I’ve noticed that the game doesn’t pause when a smaller screen pops up. Will it be possible to move these screens around on the screen so they don’t cover up what you don’t want them to cover up?
1. Might creatures (particularly forgotten beasts) made of fluid, gas or powder get buffed before the big wait? Seeing as how they're really fragile and a bit underwhelming (despite monsters like this in fantasy often being extra dangerous/hard to kill).
2. Will it be possible for off-site/worldgen combat calculations to be made more accurate at some point? Outside of the "literally viewing the battle with a second camera" thing planned for after the map rewrite, that is.
According to what I've heard from others, basically nothing factors into the outcome but combat skills, size, and the leaders tactical skills (basically none of their special abilities or comparative body material durability matters); and battles are all a sequence of 1v1s, so sheer numbers can't "overwhelm" an opponent, at best being extra dice rolls for one individual to get a lucky strike in.
3. Are animated worldmap tiles in the plans for the post-release graphics enhancements? Stuff like moving water/rivers, those "sparkles" in good aligned forests actually sparkling, "heat haze" for hot biomes, etc.
1. Will the world gen rewrite / myth and magic include constellations? Processions of the equinoxes? It would be really cool to have, say, "The Astrological age of the Shoe Cobbler end with the Cavy Pig Apocalypse, for so it was written in the beginning," for example. Also it would give all my astronomers more stuff to do :)
2. Tropics and Sub-Tropics would be very nice to have, rather than the random distribution of deserts and jungles, even if the implementation was "quick and dirty" so to speak. Any plans to include that? And trade winds? Oh I can see how this would affect boats and trade... hmmmmm....
*Since the game already has wind values based on latitude, it looks as though this was already an intended feature, but never fully implemented? I'm not sure if you intend to go the full nine yards and include axial tilt and such.
*edits for clarity
3. A recent combat log indicated that: "A forgotten beast bit off Urist McDwarfbaby's head! The part went flying in an arc!"
Infant mortality being what it is in DF, will there be artwork for dead dwarven infants / infant body parts? Or will changes have to be made now that the game is being published and distributed to a wider audience than before?
Quote from: Buttery_MessWhat sort of FPS does the new version run at? Have there been optimisations that make it run faster?
Can you limit the fort's population size from inside the game now, rather than having to do it through the init files?
For that matter, have most of the modifiable values which affect gameplay which were located in the init and d_init files been put into the main game?Quote from: A_Curious_CatOn a side note, have you seen this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180561.0)? If so, what do you think of Putnam’s discovery?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerYou mentioned in the interview the other day that the 200 or so animal people don't have the layers info in their graphics RAWS to show clothing, hairstyles and such visually. That's a lot of data, so seems reasonable.
1) Presumably there's no hard-coded restrictions on adding these ourselves in our mods (for those of us who play in worlds where rat people are far more important than elves)? Or will we run into issues with elephant-man helmets?
2) Is this something you consider as needed for releasing Adventurer (since surely no-one ever plays parties consisting entirely of dwarves, elves, humans and goblins)?
Apologies if it's all been answered before. Been in hibernation while this arc gets done.Quote from: voliolFrom my understanding, the creature variation templates will continue to only be for creatures in the upcoming release, instead of being generalized for all sorts of objects. I imagine this is some technical issue, but on which level?
And if it ends up being expanded/replaced by something more general, do you think it could work on graphics tokens as well? Admittedly a bit suggestion-y, but I think it could shorten the graphics files quite a lot using the argument functionality.
Quote from: Mr Crabman1. Are duplicated raws still a problem, or will mods later in the loading order that use the same ID for an object (eg, a creature) replace/overwrite definitions in previous mods?
2. Is there a way to disable/toggle certain raw files, within a single mod/package from the workshop? For example, after downloading a "More Creatures" mod from the workshop, having some ingame menu that lets you toggle say, amphibians off but keep the mod's birds. Or alternatively, some other solution that allows a single Workshop subscription/page to contain what is technically multiple mods (so that "granular" mods don't have to post a million entries to the workshop).Quote from: Eric BlankI had the same concern. Several people specifically asked me to add support for removing certain features from the mod I'm curating, which I did by splitting it into multiple parts as well as the single all-in-one version. With the steam release, will this modularity be possible from a single download now, i.e. uploading multiple object folders in the same steam mod and disabling the ones you don't want?
How long has the changelog grown to, presuming that you've managed to keep one this whole time?
When will the caravans become more selective in the items they are willing to buy as well as the prices they put on items. They would act as real traders other then garbage collectors. They give a list of what they will accept. They may be convinced to take other stuff if it is of high quality and rare however.
How far off is the Improved Mechanics Update? (feasible trap mechanisms, springs, gears, ropes, pullies, piping, conveyer belts, maybe rock crushers, hydraulics?, Pneumatics?, etc.)
The Dwarf Fortress development page mentions "automatons and magical prostheses" as part of Myth&Magic. These features seems innocent on the surface level, but actually raise a lot of question (hopefully not too many to answer):
1. Are the prostheses only for limbs, or will there be ones for every organ?
2. How will prostheses fair in comparison to the original body part?
3. Will there be magical prosthetics that give the user magic powers?
4. Will it be possible to:
4,1. attach a prosthetic in addition to a being's natural body parts? Imagine a craftsdwarf having 4 arms, 2 natural and 2 artificial, increasing work speed.
4,2. replace a healthy body part with a prosthetic one?
4,3. mix and match parts (replace a dwarf's legs with prosthetic arms)?
5. How much of a dwarf's body can be replaced until he is considered an automaton?
6. Will automatons be able to take roles of nobility?
7. Will there be automaton models besides the standard humanoid worker?
8. What will be the upkeep costs of an automaton (I presume they won't need food and alcohol)?
9. Will you be able to have an automaton-exclusive fortress or play as an automaton in adventure mode?
10. Will it be possible for one to achieve immortality not via necromancy, but by replacing aging flesh with machinery/putting one's soul into an automaton body?
You had said in villains part 2 a fort takeover could happen. Could you shed some more light on what this entails? And how the fort behaves afterwords? Does it become some big bad hq afterwords? Will villains use it as a base for future operations?
Will we be able to visually identify wild plants, or will we still need to mouse over/select them?
Will we be able to see the specific weapons used in a trap?
With the recent balance changes to farming, have you considered making greenhouses from glass roofs/walls?
How do we identify the differences between animals and their savage giant cousins? Do they have different art, or are they larger than a single tile?
Are there any Beasts/Titans that will take up more than one tile, or is that something you're not interested in doing?
What time will the game actually release? Is it a "rolling release" where every timezone gets access at midnight (or some other time) or a global release where everyone gets it at 0000XXT?
What will happen in the new version if you kill off the original dwarf caravan in the first year(drowning chamber)? Prolonged war? Will you ever get another dwarf caravan, perhaps from a different dwarf civilization?
1. I’m very excited about the upcoming changes to the "difficulty" of trading & farming in the Steam release, as “balance / challenge” has always been a big interest of mine. Are there plans down the road to similarly tweak other systems with an eye for balance, e.g. changing how easy it is to feed a fortress via trees / fishing, or certain combat options like cage traps having outsized effectiveness?
2. Similarly, with the eventual “army / siege” update down the line, are there any plans relating to the consistency / relative strength level of goblin sieges? I know it was only a “gamey” stopgap measure at the time, but one aspect I appreciated about the old goblin siege mechanics in the pre-0.4x days was reliably knowing a goblin siege would turn up in the first few years of new forts (if listed as a neighbor), and subsequent sieges would usually be roughly proportional to your fort's wealth / size, regardless of what other things may have been going on in the world.
So is ORANGE confirmed for being a new color in classic?
I was looking at some of the screenshots you had hosted of the new classic mode recently, when I noticed the color difference.
If you were cursed by a witch to live out your days as an animal person, which would you choose?
1. Do the new STEAM_TAG and STEAM_KEY_VALUE_TAG tokens accept any string value at all, or are they limited to pre-defined values (and if so, what are they)? Normally I see Steam workshops only using a limited number of tags that mods opt in to, like this for example:
(image w/ some tags, but not lotsa tags)
2. Can mod descriptions be multiple lines? For instance, by putting newlines in the DESCRIPTION or STEAM_DESCRIPTION tags, or by using one tag per line? Same question goes for the changelog.
3. I see that files still have headers, like so (the first line here):Code: [Select]item_helm
[OBJECT:ITEM]
Currently this header is required to load the file (it determines the loading order of files and such), and must be unique; is that still the case, or is it vestigial?
4. Can different mods have files with the same name? Like, can another mod use `item_helm.txt` in its own object file at the same time as vanilla is loaded (provided that the object IDs inside the file are unique of course), or will it cause some conflict in processing later down the line?
4b. And if duplicates are allowed, does the header (from question 3) need to be unique between mods?
5. What is STEAM_METADATA used for?
Now that we've got a listen for the soundtrack, I want to preface my question with reassurances that the ambient music tracks are absolutely amazing and I'll probably listen to them when I go to sleep later.
At the same time, The vocal tracks like Drink & Industry and a very clearly upgraded Koganusan have given me goosebumps on a wholly different level. Assuming there are no hidden surprises on the music front for The Release, what are the chances of other vocal tracks such as Tankard Basher and Danger Room, or even more all-new tracks finding their way into future updates?
I'm guessing the answer is yes, but is there a CUT_CREATURE and SELECT_CREATURE equivalent for all OBJECT types, including the graphics-defining stuff and creature variations?
And what happens if one uses a CUT_X tag (or SELECT_X) on an object that wasn't defined yet? For example, if CUT_CREATURE:DWARF, but the user disabled vanilla raws and has no other mod defining DWARF beforehand? Would `SELECT_CREATURE:undefined_creature` just silently not do anything or would it create the thing on the spot?
2. We don't specifically have a syntax for paragraph breaks. I do have an internal parser that has them for things like legends mode paragraphs and such, but it also uses [] so I'd need to handle that carefully.
[DESCRIPTION:First line of a description]
[DESCRIPTION:]
[DESCRIPTION:Second line of a description, after a paragraph break]
And yeah, since we've been doing questions etc on this since the AMA, I was also thinking this morning about automating a CUT before any new object. I'm not sure if this introduces problems? It seems like it definitely solves more problems than it causes anyway.
Creating objects by default with SELECT seems kind of dangerous since it would be empty and might not be filled by the calling mod.
Quote from: PaaaadIn a Watsonian sense, how do you think a DF world gets its first anvil, given how you, in gameplay, need a forge to make an anvil... And you need an anvil to build a forge.
demonbunny3po: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8425773#msg8425773
Paaaad (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8425860#msg8425860
Egan_BW: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8425863#msg8425863
Schmaven: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8425865#msg8425865
Lemunde: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8426328#msg8426328
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8426344#msg8426344
Ha ha, I don't have anything to add to the discussion. We do have gods that made slabs somehow, so there are possibilities even without relying on stone anvils, molds, etc.
(Also, I’ll note that bug tracker seems to have been completely wiped clean. Is there any reason for that?)The issues are still there, you can get to them using their id number, it's just that all searching seems to be broken.
Thanks for all the answers, Toady!
(Also, I’ll note that bug tracker seems to have been completely wiped clean. Is there any reason for that?)
Thanks for all the answers, Toady!
(Also, I’ll note that bug tracker seems to have been completely wiped clean. Is there any reason for that?)
They're preparing for the Premium release bug reporting system. The old data is safely backed up, we're told!
the one thing about the villains arc stuff is I hope you can play into the villains that join the fort than having to treat them like a pest... like are the villains that move to your fort still count as a citizen when they are the last citizen? I wonder if this might ruin villain hermit fort runs?
like I got some ideas of an necromancer+ vampire team fort draining new visitors that leads to raising them as intelligent undead workforce and it would probably suck if this and the coup stuff just ends forts when you only have them.
the one thing about the villains arc stuff is I hope you can play into the villains that join the fort than having to treat them like a pest... like are the villains that move to your fort still count as a citizen when they are the last citizen? I wonder if this might ruin villain hermit fort runs?
like I got some ideas of an necromancer+ vampire team fort draining new visitors that leads to raising them as intelligent undead workforce and it would probably suck if this and the coup stuff just ends forts when you only have them.
A villainous takeover that ends with you (the player) getting a chance of changing party might be fun. So you are made aware of the takeover and then given the choice of either abandoning the fort, playing as a group of rebel dwarves, or playing as the evil party, with the world hopefully respecting the choice made. So the coup happens and now you're a subsidiary of the local tower instead of a mountainhome, with the coup-leading necro villain as a noble, and your old dwarven civ as an enemy.
I wonder how much of that is plausible before the entity rewrite, though.
Quote from: A_Curious_CatThanks for all the answers, Toady!
Also, is there any chance that feather tree eggs will get eggshells (and thus be collectible) before the release?
(Also, I’ll note that bug tracker seems to have been completely wiped clean. Is there any reason for that?)
They're preparing for the Premium release bug reporting system. The old data is safely backed up, we're told!
On that note, hopefully not having been a joke: What would be an acceptable alternate method of bug reporting for those who cannot, or simply no longer wish to, use Mantis? Emails with [BUG] in subject line, Discord DMs, or something else? (Besides the report forms on Mantis being a shade over-complex IMHO IIRC, this humble Firefox user is having profound difficulties coming to terms with the idea that they may simply have neglected to store their password in this one case, you see.)
If you have an email, you can create a Mantis account.
If you have an email, you can create a Mantis account.
Technical issues aside, such as Mantis not sending confirmation emails to certain addresses.
I'm sure I'll find out once the game releases soon, but will there be any way to import my current Fortress into the Premium version and be able to see it with graphics? Thank you!No. This is a breaking update. First one since 2014 I think, but it still means it will not be compatible with existing saves.
i have an email from bay12 from 2006 thanking me for my donation
will you make NFTs for people that donated back in the day? that would be really sweet
congratulations on the steam launch! i have a mac so i'll have to wait a little longer to play this new version but i'm looking forward to it!
i have an email from bay12 from 2006 thanking me for my donation
will you make NFTs for people that donated back in the day? that would be really sweet
congratulations on the steam launch! i have a mac so i'll have to wait a little longer to play this new version but i'm looking forward to it!
I think NFTs would be a double edged sword. Sure, it might encourage some people but I know of at least one person who would never donate again.
How do the "difficulty setting" custom menu population/trade siege triggers interact with the triggers in the raws? Like most people playing in worlds with several different enemy civs, I've set the triggers individually per civ. Are the raws triggers now ignored?
So the lines in the entity raws are just ignored now?How do the "difficulty setting" custom menu population/trade siege triggers interact with the triggers in the raws? Like most people playing in worlds with several different enemy civs, I've set the triggers individually per civ. Are the raws triggers now ignored?
The raw trigger format has been replaced with a system of 1-5, which can be adjusted on the fly in the in-game settings. The default triggers are, for 1/2/3/4/5
Population: 20/50/80/110/140
Production: 5000/25000/100000/200000/300000
Trade: 500/2500/10000/20000/30000
So the lines in the entity raws are just ignored now?How do the "difficulty setting" custom menu population/trade siege triggers interact with the triggers in the raws? Like most people playing in worlds with several different enemy civs, I've set the triggers individually per civ. Are the raws triggers now ignored?
The raw trigger format has been replaced with a system of 1-5, which can be adjusted on the fly in the in-game settings. The default triggers are, for 1/2/3/4/5
Population: 20/50/80/110/140
Production: 5000/25000/100000/200000/300000
Trade: 500/2500/10000/20000/30000
Ok. Bit of a blow. We'll never see Tower Defence mod again.
It's got to show up as some thing. What would you rather it be?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
It's got to show up as some thing. What would you rather it be?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
I've noticed in the caverns that there are these small clusters of various colored diamonds and rubies/sapphires in a chunk of obsidian, but I can find nothing that causes this behavior in the raws. Is this intentional?Spoiler!
Ah, OK, I see it now. The difficulty menu is setting the exact number that the triggers 1-5 correspond to. Got it.So the lines in the entity raws are just ignored now?How do the "difficulty setting" custom menu population/trade siege triggers interact with the triggers in the raws? Like most people playing in worlds with several different enemy civs, I've set the triggers individually per civ. Are the raws triggers now ignored?
The raw trigger format has been replaced with a system of 1-5, which can be adjusted on the fly in the in-game settings. The default triggers are, for 1/2/3/4/5
Population: 20/50/80/110/140
Production: 5000/25000/100000/200000/300000
Trade: 500/2500/10000/20000/30000
Ok. Bit of a blow. We'll never see Tower Defence mod again.
No. I'm saying that the lines in the entity raws are now formatted 1-5 instead of precise amounts and use the settings in-game.
Spoiler!Is it? I genuinely have no idea what's going on with it; I'm not convinced that it's not just a bug, if it weren't so incredibly specific.
Spoiler!Is it? I genuinely have no idea what's going on with it; I'm not convinced that it's not just a bug, if it weren't so incredibly specific.
I expect a tiny letter flittering about by itself would be completely lost in amongst the other graphics.It's got to show up as some thing. What would you rather it be?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
Not the original poster, but to be honest, showing up as a graphic resembling its given ASCII tile (and using the given ASCII color) would be a good alternative. That way there's at least some information about what it is, instead of all non-sprited creatures being identical.
I expect a tiny letter flittering about by itself would be completely lost in amongst the other graphics.It's got to show up as some thing. What would you rather it be?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
Not the original poster, but to be honest, showing up as a graphic resembling its given ASCII tile (and using the given ASCII color) would be a good alternative. That way there's at least some information about what it is, instead of all non-sprited creatures being identical.
I'm pretty happy with the test creature. Means I can test my game before Classic is released and have fun trying to work out if that's a bunch of happy party Hobbit's heading towards the fortress or a herd of evil hippos.
Maybe give the test creature a T-shirt with the ascii symbol clearly printed on it?
I enjoy exploring Legends Mode and I often notice that people often have hundreds of relationships that only last 2-10 years or so, and never just settle down with one person that is a good match for them and who they "love" until they die. It's kind of depressing honestly. I think it would make for better storytelling to have more serious or long lasting relationships, eg. two people have been married for 50 years and one of them is killed/kidnapped by a monster or something, and the other gives up their comfy life in the hamlet to go search for/avenge them. It's just more dramatic. So, is there any plan to make relationships or marriages longer lasting/permanent (given the right circumstances)? I also think displaying the reason for break ups/divorces would be good as well.Read further. Long lasting marriages do exist.
body folder (all files) : b_detail_plan_default, body_default, body_rcp, tissue_template_defaultWhy this matters:
creature folder: c_variation_default
materials folder: material_template
and the following one which i'm personally less concerned about:
building folder: building (only applies to the two vanilla custom buildings, screw press + soaper, anyway)
If i want to make changes to, say, the c_variation_default file, I can't currently do that, and furthermore its in the same folder with all the creature files and have to ask my players to instead unload the entire Vanilla Creature Objects folder, with all its creatures.Are there any plans to introduce appropriate CUT and SELECT tags for these raw files?
Regarding a particular game mode, out of sheer curiosity since I personally don't know much about Dwarf Fortress's development, why is Adventure Mode always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates in comparison to Fortress Mode, Legends Mode, and possibly Arena Mode?.
Even before Dwarf Fortress's very successful release on both itch.io and Steam, congratulations by the way—got me a copy on Steam as soon as it became available, Adventure Mode was always last to receive the amount of attention Fortress Mode receives and now it's yet again last to receive updates and implementation into the premium version of Dwarf Fortress.
It's my favorite game mode, so I can't help but wonder, but thanks for all that you and your brother do. I'm very much looking forward to Dwarf Fortress's bright future now that its premium variant has been released.
I would prefer it to show an ASCII tileIt's got to show up as some thing. What would you rather it be?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
Regarding a particular game mode, out of sheer curiosity since I personally don't know much about Dwarf Fortress's development, why is Adventure Mode always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates in comparison to Fortress Mode, Legends Mode, and possibly Arena Mode?
Regarding a particular game mode, out of sheer curiosity since I personally don't know much about Dwarf Fortress's development, why is Adventure Mode always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates in comparison to Fortress Mode, Legends Mode, and possibly Arena Mode?
I can totally see how you'd thing that from recent dev cycles, but the normal cycle is 70% Legend, 20% Adventure, and "Oh, we should probably put out a release!" 10% Fortress-- "Didn't get everything we wanted done, but we had to release. Maybe we'll get around to putting those new Adventure features in Fortress one day!"
I know that fees and taxes and whatnot probably take a sizable chunk out of your sales revenue, but it looks like you just made a boatload of cash. Any fun plans for the money? DF-related or not.
Looks like Steam/Itch has been a massive success (Grats!). After you have established a health care fund, have you considered using some of the extra money to hire professional programming help? Either to ease your workload or help clean & optimize the code.
we saw someone on the kitfox discord say that the reason labor management was changed was because you don't want us to be able to micromanage our dwarves. is this a true sentiment, or were they just salty?So, I haven't gotten a copy of the premium version yet, but that statement is probably based on one of the DF talks (https://bay12games.com/media/df_talk_combined_transcript.html) (just do a ctrl+f search for 'therapist'):
[we quite liked the degree of control we had in the old system, so if it was intentionally removed and WONTFIX'd rather than an unexpected side effect of the new one... well, we'd be a little sad.]
Then there's the other branch you could take which is improving the ability to set jobs and micromanage things that utilities like Dwarf Therapist and so on do. This is sort of the spreadsheet approach or otherwise to make more management possible where it just kind of breaks down what the methods we're currently using.
And we are not really for a sort of spreadsheet approach. We wanna have, we wanna try and find another solution, not saying we have even found a solution there. And we like dwarven autonomy, but we are kind of mindful of the fact that it can take control out of your hands. So without kind of committing to a specific course of action, those are the things that we're mindful of and we definitely realize that it's not a tenable position that we're holding now, that the game really does become hard to work with when you have lots of dwarves. And we'll just have to kind of work with that slowly when we get to the next set of releases and so on.
And I haven't tried [dfhack autolabor] either, but it's along the lines of stuff that we've been talking with people about for years, but it's just a difficult problem about more dwarf autonomy, in their labor selections. And that of course raises a lot of questions about the role of the player and whether or not you can do megaprojects quite the way you want, and so forth. So you still want options that allow you to have more control over them. But what if you just set up the jobs and the dwarves were able to organize who does them fairly confidently, then that would be a whole burden taken off the player in terms of like making sure they have architecture selected on a dwarf or whatever.
Looks like Steam/Itch has been a massive success (Grats!). After you have established a health care fund, have you considered using some of the extra money to hire professional programming help? Either to ease your workload or help clean & optimize the code.
Knowing Toady's intent somewhat, from a recent AMA on Reddit, the proverbial pendulum appears to be swinging in the direction of the latter option.
we saw someone on the kitfox discord say that the reason labor management was changed was because you don't want us to be able to micromanage our dwarves. is this a true sentiment, or were they just salty?
Did they say if the new team member will be specialised in anything? e.g. UX design
Thanks. Haven't used forums in forever. Fixed!I know that fees and taxes and whatnot probably take a sizable chunk out of your sales revenue, but it looks like you just made a boatload of cash. Any fun plans for the money? DF-related or not.
Yeah, excuse me? For reference, you've botched the colour formatting somewhat, there - needs to be more like this.
we saw someone on the kitfox discord say that the reason labor management was changed was because you don't want us to be able to micromanage our dwarves. is this a true sentiment, or were they just salty?
[we quite liked the degree of control we had in the old system, so if it was intentionally removed and WONTFIX'd rather than an unexpected side effect of the new one... well, we'd be a little sad.]
what has collaborating with fans been like? will mike and the others be continuing to provide assets as development continues?
I kind of love the way that, in 50.0x, you can click on your cats or even the giant hamster closing in on your fisherdwarves and read that he's "grouchy after being caught in the rain" and other such thoughts. Is that supposed to happen, or is it something you'll be re-concealing later? Same for enemy skills, were they visible before? I forget.
Regarding a particular game mode, out of sheer curiosity since I personally don't know much about Dwarf Fortress's development, why is Adventure Mode always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates in comparison to Fortress Mode, Legends Mode, and possibly Arena Mode?
Even before Dwarf Fortress's very successful release on both itch.io and Steam, congratulations by the way—got me a copy on Steam as soon as it became available, Adventure Mode was always last to receive the amount of attention Fortress Mode receives and now it's yet again last to receive updates and implementation into the premium version of Dwarf Fortress.
It's my favorite game mode, so I can't help but wonder, but thanks for all that you and your brother do. I'm very much looking forward to Dwarf Fortress's bright future now that its premium variant has been released.
E: Thought I clicked the right color, but I guess I misclicked something on my browser. I know someone gave me a response, but I prefer one from Toady—if possible—since he knows his own game and could explain what may or may not affect Adventure Mode (or something else by changing Adventure mode first) during development.
we saw someone on the kitfox discord say that the reason labor management was changed was because you don't want us to be able to micromanage our dwarves. is this a true sentiment, or were they just salty?
[we quite liked the degree of control we had in the old system, so if it was intentionally removed and WONTFIX'd rather than an unexpected side effect of the new one... well, we'd be a little sad.]
what has collaborating with fans been like? will mike and the others be continuing to provide assets as development continues?
the system will prioritize basically whoever is idle to do a task if there's no skilled laborers, a dwarf who otherwise would have just sat around doing nothing in the spreadsheet system will overtime do that task and gain skill
the system will prioritize basically whoever is idle to do a task if there's no skilled laborers, a dwarf who otherwise would have just sat around doing nothing in the spreadsheet system will overtime do that task and gain skill
The issue is that sometimes your skilled labor is just busy for a moment, and then an unskilled dwarf crafts a sub-par quality item with your resources. Dwarves can gain skill by idling in a guildhall, instead, which you can just designate as a single tile of floor somewhere until they petition for a proper one.
We need to be able to edit what labors the default work assignments are allowed to use, and display the relevant skills for the dwarves more readily when you're selecting them.
the system will prioritize basically whoever is idle to do a task if there's no skilled laborers, a dwarf who otherwise would have just sat around doing nothing in the spreadsheet system will overtime do that task and gain skill
The issue is that sometimes your skilled labor is just busy for a moment, and then an unskilled dwarf crafts a sub-par quality item with your resources. Dwarves can gain skill by idling in a guildhall, instead, which you can just designate as a single tile of floor somewhere until they petition for a proper one.
We need to be able to edit what labors the default work assignments are allowed to use, and display the relevant skills for the dwarves more readily when you're selecting them.
the system will prioritize basically whoever is idle to do a task if there's no skilled laborers, a dwarf who otherwise would have just sat around doing nothing in the spreadsheet system will overtime do that task and gain skill
The issue is that sometimes your skilled labor is just busy for a moment, and then an unskilled dwarf crafts a sub-par quality item with your resources. ...
I know that fees and taxes and whatnot probably take a sizable chunk out of your sales revenue, but it looks like you just made a boatload of cash. Any fun plans for the money? DF-related or not.
"It's just a ton of money, but it's also for 20 years," Tarn Adams said. "So when you divide that by 20, you're kind of back down into normal tech salary range. Which is still pretty high, obviously."
Another trip-up, I see. Toady did repeatedly mention that the particular choice of color - this, to be exact - was for being able to distinguish one question from another at month's end, IIRC.
i prefer lime to lime green. if you can show me toady specifying lime green rather than just a generic green, i'll change it; but plenty of questions have been asked using lime before with no complaints.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well.
The green is pretty hard to see on some monitors.i prefer lime to lime green. if you can show me toady specifying lime green rather than just a generic green, i'll change it; but plenty of questions have been asked using lime before with no complaints.
From the first post of the thread (emphasis added):If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well.
From the first post of the thread (emphasis added):"Works pretty well" is far from a requirement. There's no way that Toady will miss a question because it's a slightly different shade of green. The purpose of the color is just to draw attention to questions, so let's stop complaining about people's exact question colors. If Toady cares, I'm sure he will clarify.If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well.
Nobody cares what shade of green you use. Just don't use bright yellow as someone someone did earlier.From the first post of the thread (emphasis added):"Works pretty well" is far from a requirement. There's no way that Toady will miss a question because it's a slightly different shade of green. The purpose of the color is just to draw attention to questions, so let's stop complaining about people's exact question colors. If Toady cares, I'm sure he will clarify.If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well.
The composers all seem to be interested in returning for the Adventure Mode Soundtrack!Excellent. Just having a musical cue as you accidentally stumble into a haunted biome would be great. Wait, what's going on here, sense of dread intensifies. Hoary Marmot Corpse attacks!
You've mentioned that you want DF playable for people without a numeric keypad. Does this extend to removing keypad movement from Adventurer? Or are you going to keep the keypad controls and also implement other ways of getting about with a mouse like in Caves of Qud?
For what it's worth I wouldn't feel very comfortable playing a roguelike and not being able to use the keypad.
Switchable keysets from the outset. Yeah, that's what I was getting at I think. Original controls (at least as far as moving about), alt controls, plus mouse for the mouse slaves.You've mentioned that you want DF playable for people without a numeric keypad. Does this extend to removing keypad movement from Adventurer? Or are you going to keep the keypad controls and also implement other ways of getting about with a mouse like in Caves of Qud?
For what it's worth I wouldn't feel very comfortable playing a roguelike and not being able to use the keypad.
My grognardia is flaring up, so I feel compelled to point out that many of the earliest roguelikes were played on terminals that may not have had keypads or had weird proprietary ones, and used hjkl movement like vi. To this day Angband and many of its descendants support two switchable keysets, one of which uses hjkl (etc) movement and thus needs a lot more shifted and control keys for other commands; this tends to be popular with people playing on laptops or reduced-count keyboards as seem to be weirdly popular in the mechanical keyboard community.
I'd love to see first-class support in DF for multiple, loadable, keysets, including at least one supplied default for each of minimal, invert-T, and full keypad.
iI also think that using hjkl for movement would be a good idea.You've mentioned that you want DF playable for people without a numeric keypad. Does this extend to removing keypad movement from Adventurer? Or are you going to keep the keypad controls and also implement other ways of getting about with a mouse like in Caves of Qud?
For what it's worth I wouldn't feel very comfortable playing a roguelike and not being able to use the keypad.
My grognardia is flaring up, so I feel compelled to point out that many of the earliest roguelikes were played on terminals that may not have had keypads or had weird proprietary ones, and used hjkl movement like vi. To this day Angband and many of its descendants support two switchable keysets, one of which uses hjkl (etc) movement and thus needs a lot more shifted and control keys for other commands; this tends to be popular with people playing on laptops or reduced-count keyboards as seem to be weirdly popular in the mechanical keyboard community.
I'd love to see first-class support in DF for multiple, loadable, keysets, including at least one supplied default for each of minimal, invert-T, and full keypad.
What are the other four directions of an hjkl control setup? (Quick Google only shows it as an alternative to wasd, can't seem to find an agreed standard for the diagonals).iI also think that using hjkl for movement would be a good idea.You've mentioned that you want DF playable for people without a numeric keypad. Does this extend to removing keypad movement from Adventurer? Or are you going to keep the keypad controls and also implement other ways of getting about with a mouse like in Caves of Qud?
For what it's worth I wouldn't feel very comfortable playing a roguelike and not being able to use the keypad.
My grognardia is flaring up, so I feel compelled to point out that many of the earliest roguelikes were played on terminals that may not have had keypads or had weird proprietary ones, and used hjkl movement like vi. To this day Angband and many of its descendants support two switchable keysets, one of which uses hjkl (etc) movement and thus needs a lot more shifted and control keys for other commands; this tends to be popular with people playing on laptops or reduced-count keyboards as seem to be weirdly popular in the mechanical keyboard community.
I'd love to see first-class support in DF for multiple, loadable, keysets, including at least one supplied default for each of minimal, invert-T, and full keypad.
:wq
- Why doesn't the official sprite for beak dogs show them with the rainbow-colored skin that's still in their raws?
- Why doesn't the official sprite for beak dogs show them with the rainbow-colored skin that's still in their raws?
I recall Toady mentioning that they were partially based on ThreeToe's peach-faced lovebirds, but that now that the game has actual peach-face lovebirds (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Peach-faced_lovebird) they shifted towards another of the inspirations. The other inspiration being the graboids from Tremors 2. I got no idea if this change was initiated by the brothers, or was one made by the artists that they agreed to.
- Why doesn't the official sprite for beak dogs show them with the rainbow-colored skin that's still in their raws?
I recall Toady mentioning that they were partially based on ThreeToe's peach-faced lovebirds, but that now that the game has actual peach-face lovebirds (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Peach-faced_lovebird) they shifted towards another of the inspirations. The other inspiration being the graboids from Tremors 2. I got no idea if this change was initiated by the brothers, or was one made by the artists that they agreed to.
I always thought they were the bird mounts (known as 'chicken leg' or cockatrice) from Golden Axe to be honest based on the description and traits.
The original inspirations [for the beak dogs] were, as far as I remember, those things (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8R6I_NsKbo) from tremors 2 and for riding, yeah, the labyrinth things, though we didn't get the beaks from that, and the original cautionsaurus. Velociprators weren't an inspiration -- I think that just came up in that thread and I was trying to describe it in those terms. Our crayon pictures of them devolved pretty far away from that though, and they end up looking kind of like wingless featherless versions of my brother's lovebirds. I don't think they have little arms any more.
... is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
One would hope things get better, but that depends partially on advances in cpu and ram technology and drivers. I upgraded my system to ddr4 ram and saw huge improvement in speed for instance. It still slows down, but not to 5fps like it used to. Now I get 15ish in my 180 dorf fort.
Better handling of town populations in adventure mode would be great, but it will probably take the form of "anyone who isn't a historical figure isn't allowed to path or think unless a player or historical figure is currently interacting with them" or just not loading non historical figures that don't cover important positions like a single shopkeeper per shop or tavern and a few units set aside for guards
One would hope things get better, but that depends partially on advances in cpu and ram technology and drivers. I upgraded my system to ddr4 ram and saw huge improvement in speed for instance. It still slows down, but not to 5fps like it used to. Now I get 15ish in my 180 dorf fort.
Better handling of town populations in adventure mode would be great, but it will probably take the form of "anyone who isn't a historical figure isn't allowed to path or think unless a player or historical figure is currently interacting with them" or just not loading non historical figures that don't cover important positions like a single shopkeeper per shop or tavern and a few units set aside for guards
And according to the most recent Steam update, it seems Putnam has been brought on to help with coding the game proper, so we have our answer.Looks like Steam/Itch has been a massive success (Grats!). After you have established a health care fund, have you considered using some of the extra money to hire professional programming help? Either to ease your workload or help clean & optimize the code.
Knowing Toady's intent somewhat, from a recent AMA on Reddit, the proverbial pendulum appears to be swinging in the direction of the latter option.
Congratulations to Putnam! I have full confidence in your ability to help.+1
Since then, we created the stress feedback thread, read the comments, and have collected a bunch of notes. We're planning on addressing a portion of the list for the Steam release (or before, with one of the patches, however that ends up working out), and hopefully we'll land somewhere more pleasant while not falling back to the permanent euphoria days. I don't have a definite list, since the work will be coupled with some numeric investigation - as I recall, players running experiments found that unmet needs weren't actually a stressor, just more of an annoying blaring siren which doesn't actually cause much stress (which needs to be looked at for that reason), and I need to see how the numbers are actually shaking out on the famous rain rememberance example vs. the body hauling work vs. cave adaptation nausea vs. etc. Then there are the more positive ideas along the lines of people comforting each other more and having some more fort-wide happy thoughts when the player does things like win sieges. We still want poorly run forts to have trouble, but forts that are run well should have more isolated/fixable problems, and those should be explained well and feel satisfying.
So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Here's the latest from Toady. You can read a little bit before this quote in this thread for some context (if you've already read this, sorry haha!).Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Don't expect it immediately and don't expect it to be as comprehensive as it was. Those of us who cared dropped the ball because Toady didn't think anyone did.
So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Here's the latest from Toady. You can read a little bit before this quote in this thread for some context (if you've already read this, sorry haha!).Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Don't expect it immediately and don't expect it to be as comprehensive as it was. Those of us who cared dropped the ball because Toady didn't think anyone did.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Looks like I'm not going to bother updating my DF for a while or possibly ever, then. Full keyboard control is key for reducing wrist strain for me. I need to reserve mouse use for things that are more important, like my job.
So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Here's the latest from Toady. You can read a little bit before this quote in this thread for some context (if you've already read this, sorry haha!).Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Don't expect it immediately and don't expect it to be as comprehensive as it was. Those of us who cared dropped the ball because Toady didn't think anyone did.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Looks like I'm not going to bother updating my DF for a while or possibly ever, then. Full keyboard control is key for reducing wrist strain for me. I need to reserve mouse use for things that are more important, like my job.
Have you considered getting an alternative pointing device such as a trackball, touchpad, or a keyboard with a trackpoint?
How close are we to an Adventure Mode release?"A lot further off" (than classic and arena).
I'm really missing it.
Physical descriptions - "fond of industry" - were previously an iconic feature of looking at units in dwarf fortress. Now they are buried four clicks down in the health menu. Instead, the first click of a unit gets in your face with a personality description, even for non-sentient creatures like frogs and elephants. A couple streamers have already made light-hearted fun of this.
Is there any hope of getting the physical descriptions out of the health screen and back on the main unit page?
Roadmap (posted about a day after Dwarf Fortress steam was released).
Did you have a merry christmas?
Will adventure and arena mode be coming out at the same time? I feel its probable since taking control of units requires the adventure interface, but want to know whats planned.
I do miss arena mode. So hard to test things when you can't take direct control over a dwarf and make them do the interaction you want them to test.
Also is there any way currently to make the embark box that shows the list of neighbors longer? It's already cutting off Towers a lot of the time in vanilla and really doesn't work at all in mods with multiple additional civs.
What determines if an image used in game uses palettes for material color or not? Will modders have a way to set their graphics as palette colored? I haven't been able to figure out how to palette cheese.
Don't specifically have one? Does that mean it's possible, but just weird and clunky? Something like:
[DESCRIPTION:First line of a description]
[DESCRIPTION:]
[DESCRIPTION:Second line of a description, after a paragraph break]
Would be somewhat awkward, but workable for when a mod needs a description of a moderate size that's still readable (or a changelog; I can't remember ever seeing a changelog that would fit in one line/paragraph comfortably).
Quote from: A_Curious_CatAlso, is there any chance that feather tree eggs will get eggshells (and thus be collectible) before the release?
(Also, I’ll note that bug tracker seems to have been completely wiped clean. Is there any reason for that?)Quote from: Silverwing235What would be an acceptable alternate method of bug reporting for those who cannot, or simply no longer wish to, use Mantis? Emails with [BUG] in subject line, Discord DMs, or something else? (Besides the report forms on Mantis being a shade over-complex IMHO IIRC, this humble Firefox user is having profound difficulties coming to terms with the idea that they may simply have neglected to store their password in this one case, you see.)
the one thing about the villains arc stuff is I hope you can play into the villains that join the fort than having to treat them like a pest... like are the villains that move to your fort still count as a citizen when they are the last citizen? I wonder if this might ruin villain hermit fort runs?
now that the game is out, i can see that there's some stuff in the vanilla definitions that would allow a degree of changes, but it requires me to change my question:
will we gain the ability to add mods to existing save files?
this has become a serious obstacle with mods that aim to improve accessibility by adjusting icons in the ui, or for my use case, replacing audio elements that are highly disruptive (like that horrific REEEE REEE REEEE bird noise in grasslands which is absolutely deleterious to some of us)
making a new save file every time we discover an experiential issue that someone solved with a mod is problematic.
Questions about prostetics reminded me about one thing: exoskeleton or power armor. What about them? In magic/myth future context of course.
On animal people armor
Would it be possible to have one piece of each armor type (one mail one breastplate, one left and right high boot etc) drawn out for each animal person and palatte swapped on demand rather than say one different armor graphic for each piece. Specifically can the graphics system handle palette swapping the gear itself, or would you need to premake the gear and apply the pallete swap manually to each piece of gear, then feed it to the graphic system.
Asking both in desire for custom mod armor/clothing without insane work, and for how your system could handle something like that for “middeground” you spoke of in reference to a similar question.
asking on the eve of release, but assuming you're reading this a good week or so after: were there any last minute mission-critical bugs you had to drop everything to fix, or has it been relatively smooth sailing?
will there be any way to import my current Fortress into the Premium version and be able to see it with graphics?
I've seen that the plan for boats is for them to be able to turn 90 degrees. Does this include turning around X or Y axis (that is, turning a wall into a floor and/or capsizing)?
will you make NFTs for people that donated back in the day? that would be really sweet
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerCouple of Worldgen questions:
MINERAL_SCARCITY in Advanced Worldgen parameters for every type of world changed from 2500 (sparse) to 100 (everywhere) in 50.01.
Was this simply to increase minerals in worlds, or did the balance change somewhere requiring a value of 100 to produce the same kind of result as 2500 in the previous version?
Titan and Werebeast Triggers changed from exact numbers to a 1-5 scale. Can we still adjust Worldgen.txt to use exact figures, or will these be ignored now?
Also:
Would it be possible to have an option to turn off the DFhack style prospector thing from the embark screen in the future? I get that some people are quite vocal about demanding to know exactly where the iron, gold and copper are, but it's kind of destroyed one of the fun things about fortress mode for me, which was adapting to what we discover upon Striking the Earth. Into the unknown...but actually not.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerHow do the "difficulty setting" custom menu population/trade siege triggers interact with the triggers in the raws? Like most people playing in worlds with several different enemy civs, I've set the triggers individually per civ. Are the raws triggers now ignored?
What's the thinking behind removing Civilian Alerts?
Is it due to some plans that you have for later improved sieges? Or a feature that you just haven't finished implementing yet?
I think most players (actual players, not folk struggling to get started) set up a civilian alert. Are our plant gatherers and hunters just supposed to die unless we indulge in horrible micromanagement of manual burrows?
Or is there a missing "get to the tavern" general button somewhere that we've all missed?
Quote from: KadzarWhat's the current priority for adding things like maps/exports for Legends mode to the Steam/itch.io release?Quote from: Stained_ClassWill Legends exports like the xml dump, the maps .bmp exports and other infos on the world like the world gen file, be back in a future version of the Premium game?
What's the current state of the native Linux port for v0.50? Steam doesn't appear to support it, but performance with Proton is apparently good. Are there any plans to port v0.50 natively to Linux for Premium? Will Classic still get a native port going forward?
1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
2.Will we ever get multiple economic systems rather than strict capitalism or communism?
3.What improvements can we expect from the premium adv mode release?
4.Currently the game doesn't warn you about being close to necromancer towers. Can we expect this to change in the near future?
I've noticed in the caverns that there are these small clusters of various colored diamonds and rubies/sapphires in a chunk of obsidian, but I can find nothing that causes this behavior in the raws. Is this intentional?
I enjoy exploring Legends Mode and I often notice that people often have hundreds of relationships that only last 2-10 years or so, and never just settle down with one person that is a good match for them and who they "love" until they die. It's kind of depressing honestly. I think it would make for better storytelling to have more serious or long lasting relationships, eg. two people have been married for 50 years and one of them is killed/kidnapped by a monster or something, and the other gives up their comfy life in the hamlet to go search for/avenge them. It's just more dramatic. So, is there any plan to make relationships or marriages longer lasting/permanent (given the right circumstances)? I also think displaying the reason for break ups/divorces would be good as well.
I know that fees and taxes and whatnot probably take a sizable chunk out of your sales revenue, but it looks like you just made a boatload of cash. Any fun plans for the money? DF-related or not.
The CUT and SELECT tags you introduced for us are great. However, a couple of these tags are not currently included in the base game, but apply to raw-moddable files. The raw files lacking appropriate CUT or SELECT tags are:
body folder (all files) : b_detail_plan_default, body_default, body_rcp, tissue_template_default
creature folder: c_variation_default
materials folder: material_template
and the following one which i'm personally less concerned about:
building folder: building (only applies to the two vanilla custom buildings, screw press + soaper, anyway)
Why this matters:
If i want to make changes to, say, the c_variation_default file, I can't currently do that, and furthermore its in the same folder with all the creature files and have to ask my players to instead unload the entire Vanilla Creature Objects folder, with all its creatures.
Are there any plans to introduce appropriate CUT and SELECT tags for these raw files?
Regarding a particular game mode, out of sheer curiosity since I personally don't know much about Dwarf Fortress's development, why is Adventure Mode always at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to updates in comparison to Fortress Mode, Legends Mode, and possibly Arena Mode?
Even before Dwarf Fortress's very successful release on both itch.io and Steam, congratulations by the way—got me a copy on Steam as soon as it became available, Adventure Mode was always last to receive the amount of attention Fortress Mode receives and now it's yet again last to receive updates and implementation into the premium version of Dwarf Fortress.
It's my favorite game mode, so I can't help but wonder, but thanks for all that you and your brother do. I'm very much looking forward to Dwarf Fortress's bright future now that its premium variant has been released.
I'm seeing some changes in worldgen between 47.05 and 50.02 in my modded world. Mostly that my one incredibly aggressive expansionist city building civ is not expanding (as you'd expect them to do in 90% of worlds generated in previous version) and they are content to found a couple of sites then build tombs until they go extinct. Same raws, same worldgen settings, no errors in copying stuff across as far as I can see. Just...different.
What kind of adjustments were made to worldgen balance this time that might affect the rate at which civs spread out? Maybe some necromancer nerfs or something?
--edit
After some fiddling about I found that adding Indoor/outdoor_farming gets them working again. I assume this is additions/fixes to the economy working behind the scenes. So generally is anything else interesting going on behind the scene during worldgen?
Quote from: Immortal-DCan you elaborate on what Putnam will be doing over the coming months? - Do you have plans to hire additional help in the near future? - Have you been receiving feedback about QoL changes to the UI? (tomb zones, report history, etc.)Quote from: Manveru TaurënérI assume this might very well be clarified soon enough anyway by either Putnam, Tarn or Kitfox, but I'm curious if there's a specific focus that Putnam is currently set to have?
I might be wrong but I'd assume Toady will want to keep the big picture, foundational feature coding of the game to himself still.
we saw someone on the kitfox discord say that the reason labor management was changed was because you don't want us to be able to micromanage our dwarves. is this a true sentiment, or were they just salty?
[we quite liked the degree of control we had in the old system, so if it was intentionally removed and WONTFIX'd rather than an unexpected side effect of the new one... well, we'd be a little sad.]
what has collaborating with fans been like? will mike and the others be continuing to provide assets as development continues?
1. I noticed in the steam version that combat and announcement logs are currently limited and temporary compared to previous version. I just wanted to check if a more comprehensive and permanent log will be brought back into future versions. Rereading what my guys were up to is important for storytelling purposes.
2. Related to storytelling, will we eventually be able to export legends content like before? Viewing it in 3rd party programs was fun but it was the easiest way to export world gen parameters.
3. There seems to be some confusion that the game has been slightly 'simplified' (less granular labor management, inability to select specific ammo, burrows etc) for the sake of reaching a wider audience. I don't believe that was ever mentioned and besides a few specific examples I don't see much evidence of that so I believe that's just a rumor that a handful of people are running with. I'm certain a lot of the examples people site are things currently in the works. Unless I missed it, which I totally could have, it might be nice to have a list of familiar features currently missing that are currently being worked on from the "old" version that will make their way to the steam version versus things that have been actually been simplified if that's the case.
I noticed in the steam version of fortress mode some content changes have been made to make the game more approachable. Will adventure mode receive any content or gameplay changes when it finally releases on steam? And if so, are there any future changes you are able to tell us about at this time?
I kind of love the way that, in 50.0x, you can click on your cats or even the giant hamster closing in on your fisherdwarves and read that he's "grouchy after being caught in the rain" and other such thoughts. Is that supposed to happen, or is it something you'll be re-concealing later? Same for enemy skills, were they visible before? I forget.
With alchemist removed as a skill, we got the option to use MODSKILL## for defining custom labors. It works fine. However, we can't seem to find a string for the unit type associated with MODSKILL##. So, for example, an elf will show up from off the map and his profession title is "Adept Skill1". Are we all overlooking a string that would let us rename the unittype Skill1?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8435972#msg8435972
Is open-sourcing parts of the game (especially the ones that relate to the more tedious aspects of it such as rendering, interface, etc.) now in the realm of possibility?
1. With the new additions to the Hidden Fun Stuff (gem spires and all their goodies), Will there be any changes or tweaks to this? While this might seem very hard for new players.. this is.. a oddly easy way to quickly obtain divine artifacts, specially since the baddies that can spawn with in.. tend to be made out of dust or something very weak.
2. With those changes to the Hidden Fun Stuff.. will there be changes to Vaults or anything for adventure mode? (it was possible to open a underworld pillar in adventure mode and cause demons to spawn too).
3. More or less likely when adventure mode is released.. alot of new players will question why we can't mine....lol. Will anything be implemented to let us do this in Adv Mode? Maybe something similar to how DFHack's gui/advfort worked? I would assume it would only allow us to dig on our player-made camps and nowhere else.
4. Without having you spoil to much, will there be any adventure mode bugs/issues that will be fixed for the adv. mode release?
Very much looking forward to Adventurer. With this tileset and the awesome soundtrack (maybe more soundtrack? That would be nice) it should be great fun. Having given yourself a "much further away" deadline to get it done, is this the deep dive focus on bringing Adventurer up to the standards of Fortress with side bugs and other issues all addressed along with the interface that we've all been waiting for? Or is that still something that will eventually happen over a long period of time and updates in amongst other update arcs? While none of it is "finished" of course, how "finished" will it feel as a game compared with Fortress when this update is done do you think?
Is the plan to release adventurer, then get back to villains, or release adventurer once villains is done (since it seems to be a large part of future adventurer play).
Also:
You've mentioned that you want DF playable for people without a numeric keypad. Does this extend to removing keypad movement from Adventurer? Or are you going to keep the keypad controls and also implement other ways of getting about with a mouse like in Caves of Qud?
For what it's worth I wouldn't feel very comfortable playing a roguelike and not being able to use the keypad.
- Why does the world map tileset have tiles for good+savage and evil+savage areas, but not for neutral savage areas?
- Why doesn't the official sprite for beak dogs show them with the rainbow-colored skin that's still in their raws?
What parts of the ear do the BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER parameters correspond to? Right now it seems a bit vague and it really could use some clarification.
Setting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.
Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)
will df ever support higher population counts? fortresses typically cap (mostly due to performance reasons) at 200, in worldgen dwarven civilizations typically get in the thousands (with the largest ive seen at 140000) while human typically get into the tens of thousands, with a lot of their population being stacked in town sites, which again, due to performance issues, are unplayable. relative to our world (in the medieval period) though, even the largest human settlements pale in comparison to most small to medium sized historical cities, and player fortresses barely pass as villages, to the point that its easier to think of the various entities as citystates rather than more widespread empires and nations (something which fits the pretty small ingame world size pretty well, and a direction i think df should actually lean into). similiar games like songs of syx usually have their player settlements reach in the thousands, and while i totally understand that this performance cap is due to technological limitations (which the afformentioned game doesn't have), can we expect a raise in site population performance anytime soon? metropolises being larger than irl hamlets and armies being larger than in the dozens would help great for immersion, imo
1. I've noticed in the current version, you're no longer able to assign "pet" sapients to a squad. In prior versions you could, for example, mod the game to make dwarves embark with trolls, and then assign those trolls to a squad led by a dwarf and give them weapons and armor and all that. Is the current absence of this feature a bug or intentional? If the latter I understand given that sort of thing will probably get a more nuanced system in the future but a lot of mods used it, so if its gone for good it'd be good to know.
2. For awhile now cannibalism has been completely impossible even if the civ has ethics that allow for it. Are there any plans to change that in the near future?
How did the stress feedback shape up? Any insights about mechanics involved
Wiki states Advanced worldgen setting BEAST_END_YEAR checks for dead Megabeasts and Titans. Is it just Megabeasts and Titans? Or do semi-megabeasts and forgotten beasts count? And is every Megabeast and Titan a historical figure? Or are there pools of abstract "Megabeast pops" somewhere?
I ask because my settings are to end at 50% with checks starting in the year 250, but I've just generated a 1000 year old world in which (according to Legends Mode historical figures list) 35 of 36 Megabeasts and 13 of 18 Titans are dead. So just wanted to check exactly what it's checking for before sending a bug report.
Quote from: thvazHow close are we to an Adventure Mode release?
I'm really missing it.Quote from: InariusDo you have any timeline/objective in regard of Aventure mode release ? I suppose it will be much faster than doing Fortress, but some things also have to be reworked, so maybe it will be longer than one can expect.
Species descriptions - "fond of drink and industry" - were previously an iconic feature of looking at units in dwarf fortress. Now they are buried four clicks down in the health menu. Instead, the first click of a unit gets in your face with a personality description, even for non-sentient creatures like frogs and elephants. A couple streamers have already made light-hearted fun of this.
Is there any hope of getting the species descriptions back onto the overview? And what about nerfing the extremely-humanoid personalities of anything that doesn't have CAN_SPEAK?
How does the near future look in the terms of improved modding support, versus squashing bugs and optimization? Some "missing" features such as not having SELECT/CUT for all object types means mods have to be written with workarounds/disallow usage with other mods. So I am wondering if it's worth waiting for 50.05 or .06 where that won't be needed, or if it's better (as a modder) to research the workarounds because it will be a while.
Did you have a merry christmas?
Will adventure and arena mode be coming out at the same time? I feel its probable since taking control of units requires the adventure interface, but want to know whats planned.
Lutefisk?
Any thoughts on updating the encoding used for the text in raws? -- I'm having some trouble with this myself at the moment. What about the Raws format itself? Besides updating the files themselves, how big of a lift would it be to move to something like XML or JSON?
Will modders be getting a way to edit dwarf image layers for the steam version without the inherent graphic incompatibilities of redoing the entire dwarf? is a SELECT_* tag a viable addition for this to allow more mod compatibility when editing or adding graphics?
What determines if an image used in game uses palettes for material color or not? Will modders have a way to set their graphics as palette colored? I haven't been able to figure out how to palette cheese.
Will dwarf layers be able to show material colors and dye colors, is there a particular reason that the layers were made for each of the vanilla materials instead of being a single palette colored layer? A group of modders I'm talking to have not been able to manage visible dye conditions outside of item tiles.
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAre there plans to be able to save the difficulty settings at some point? It's a little frustrating to have the custom settings reset at the start of every game.
Also is there any way currently to make the embark box that shows the list of neighbours longer? It's already cutting off Towers a lot of the time in vanilla and really doesn't work at all in mods with multiple additional civs.Quote from: RandomizerDo you plan on upgrading embark screen or the site finder in the near future?
I agree the embark box should show neighbors at a longer distance. Is it also possible to put all possible races in the site finder where you can check yes, no, friendly, or hostile for each one?
Didn't have time to proofread this time! Apologies in advance, things are just that way for the time being.
...Quote from: Bumrusher
Didn't have time to proofread this time! Apologies in advance, things are just that way for the time being.
...Quote from: Bumrusher
Apparently Rumrusher is "Bumrusher" now. :P
Quote from: Shonai_Dweller
Wiki states Advanced worldgen setting BEAST_END_YEAR checks for dead Megabeasts and Titans. Is it just Megabeasts and Titans? Or do semi-megabeasts and forgotten beasts count? And is every Megabeast and Titan a historical figure? Or are there pools of abstract "Megabeast pops" somewhere?
I ask because my settings are to end at 50% with checks starting in the year 250, but I've just generated a 1000 year old world in which (according to Legends Mode historical figures list) 35 of 36 Megabeasts and 13 of 18 Titans are dead. So just wanted to check exactly what it's checking for before sending a bug report.
It checks the percentage of the initial starting population versus the size of the hf_mega vector... that should just be living megabeasts and titans. The only way what you're seeing is not a bug is if most of those megabeasts were children not original (I think, maybe.) Like if initial pop were 9 megas and 18 titans, then 14 of 27 remaining is still above 50%. But I'm assuming you started with more than 9 megas.
1. full list: UNROTTEN, CONTAINS_LYE or POTASHABLE, NOT_WEB, WEB_ONLY, EMPTY, NOT_CONTAIN_BARREL_ITEM, GLASS_MATERIAL, BUILDMAT, FIRE_BUILD_SAFE, MAGMA_BUILD_SAFE, CAN_USE_ARTIFACT, WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY, ANY_PLANT_MATERIAL, ANY_SILK_MATERIAL, ANY_YARN_MATERIAL, ANY_SOAP_MATERIAL, ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL, ANY_BONE_MATERIAL, ANY_STRAND_TISSUE, ANY_SHELL_MATERIAL, ANY_WOOD_MATERIAL, (also STONE GEM TOOTH HORN PEARL), USE_BODY_COMPONENT, CAN_USE_LOCATION_RESERVED, NO_EDGE_ALLOWED, HAS_EDGE, ON_GROUND (ha), NOT_ENGRAVED, NOT_IMPROVED, HAS_WRITING_IMPROVEMENT, DOES_NOT_ABSORB, FOOD_STORAGE_CONTAINER, HARD_ITEM_MATERIAL, WOVEN_ITEM, NOT_PRESSED, METAL_ITEM_MATERIAL, IS_SAND_MATERIAL, IS_DIVINE_MATERIAL, IS_CRAFTED_ARTIFACT, NOT_ARTIFACT.+
Didn't have time to proofread this time! Apologies in advance, things are just that way for the time being.
...Quote from: Bumrusher
Apparently Rumrusher is "Bumrusher" now. :P
That got an answer pretty quick didnt it.Looks like Steam/Itch has been a massive success (Grats!). After you have established a health care fund, have you considered using some of the extra money to hire professional programming help? Either to ease your workload or help clean & optimize the code.
Knowing Toady's intent somewhat, from a recent AMA on Reddit, the proverbial pendulum appears to be swinging in the direction of the latter option.
There was a PC gamer article/interview (https://www.pcgamer.com/dwarf-fortress-now-needs-about-100-icons-for-spilled-intestines-torn-arteries-and-bruised-tendons/) which explained the prime reason the health screen is missing is because they want to get easy to understand icons for each item, but there's 100+ icons it'll need, and they prolly also should be easy to understand. Given there's only one place where these icons are seen, it makes sense that other stuff got prioritized :)
2. I assume absence of health overview of fortress as it was before is just a matter of time or it was removed intentionally?
This is the idea, yeah. The old code is there but it's not fit to sell - have to deal with the symlink situation or whatever issues various maintainers and etc. were troubled by, and I'm not qualified for that. Have to discuss it with Putnam, see where it goes, etc. But our plan is to get to native support for some flavor at least, however that usually ends up working for closed source steam stuff etc.
To my understanding (mostly just as a user of Steam on Linux), the way it usually works is that Steam distributes its own version of all the libraries you need to run a system and they make you build a version against that (they call it the Steam Runtime, basically think of it as a distro specifically for steam).For the Steam build, yeah, that's my understanding too. Some extra effort is involved for non-Steam builds, though.
Thanks for the answers Toady.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSetting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.
Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)
Miuramir: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555
We wanted to add some kind of catacomb zone to cover this, and didn't get there. It came up quite a bit in pre-launch testing. I don't think I can easily make multi recognize semi-enclosed spaces well, although I'm assuming there's various existing work on that.
As a side note, overlapping is a huge penalty now, so we're going to want to fix the spots where it feels improper.
Thanks for the answers Toady.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSetting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.
Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)
Miuramir: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555
We wanted to add some kind of catacomb zone to cover this, and didn't get there. It came up quite a bit in pre-launch testing. I don't think I can easily make multi recognize semi-enclosed spaces well, although I'm assuming there's various existing work on that.
As a side note, overlapping is a huge penalty now, so we're going to want to fix the spots where it feels improper.
If overlapping has a penalty, why is multi selecting the walls by default? Most players I believe won't have double-wide walls, especially for bedrooms.
As Toady mentioned, not everything is meant to produce an Overlapping penalty. Throwing a pasture into a dining room also doesn't for example. It's very obvious when it happens, it shows up in bright red on the interface.Thanks for the answers Toady.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSetting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.
Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)
Miuramir: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555
We wanted to add some kind of catacomb zone to cover this, and didn't get there. It came up quite a bit in pre-launch testing. I don't think I can easily make multi recognize semi-enclosed spaces well, although I'm assuming there's various existing work on that.
As a side note, overlapping is a huge penalty now, so we're going to want to fix the spots where it feels improper.
If overlapping has a penalty, why is multi selecting the walls by default? Most players I believe won't have double-wide walls, especially for bedrooms.
I just found v50's world save data cannot be played in v47, nor v47's map save data to v50. Is there really no hope? At least I could just play v50's world save data in v47.Few game releases of any games are forward compatible, i.e. able to load newer saves into older versions. It can happen if only some minor bugs have been fixed, but that's definitely not the case here. Thus, there is no realistic hope to load a v0.50.x save into v 0.47.x.
Quote from: Octopusfluffnow that the game is out, i can see that there's some stuff in the vanilla definitions that would allow a degree of changes, but it requires me to change my question:
will we gain the ability to add mods to existing save files?
this has become a serious obstacle with mods that aim to improve accessibility by adjusting icons in the ui, or for my use case, replacing audio elements that are highly disruptive (like that horrific REEEE REEE REEEE bird noise in grasslands which is absolutely deleterious to some of us)
making a new save file every time we discover an experiential issue that someone solved with a mod is problematic.
Graphics stuff can already be adjusted w/out worries about saves I think? I was doing it during development all the time anyway.
Sound just isn't that moddable yet, the format there isn't really complete. It doesn't know how to use non-vanilla files, doesn't have a place to put them. I wanted to get something in there so that saves could be a little bit compatible with more support later, by having any objects at all to work with.
Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?
Thanks for the answers Toady.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerSetting tombs in the new interface seems actually harder than previously (making a 1x1 zone on every coffin) unless you enclose every coffin in its own room and use the multi command.
Is that something that needs more development (to have multi recognise lots of unenclosed coffins as separate burial places) or is your vision of dwarven burial to have each coffin in its own room (and therefore system is working as intended).
(Also because the tombs are zones, when you designate a memorial hall over the graveyard it says it's "overlapping" which I think reduces the value, right? Guess that's not a big deal but I do like to avoid overlapping zones...)
Miuramir: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8437555#msg8437555)
We wanted to add some kind of catacomb zone to cover this, and didn't get there. It came up quite a bit in pre-launch testing. I don't think I can easily make multi recognize semi-enclosed spaces well, although I'm assuming there's various existing work on that.
As a side note, overlapping is a huge penalty now, so we're going to want to fix the spots where it feels improper.
If overlapping has a penalty, why is multi selecting the walls by default? Most players I believe won't have double-wide walls, especially for bedrooms.
Overlapping doesn't count walls
Saw a post somewhere, don't remember if it was Reddit, discord, or here. Anyway, the post seemed to indicate that engraving only has value in the direction towards the spot in which the dwarf who did the engraving was standing. So while there is no penalty for overlapping, I guess for min/maxing, it would seem double walling would be preferred to get full effect. Or maybe I read/inferred that wrong and both rooms get full wealth value, but the engraving can only be appreciated from the same side as where it was engraved from??
Engraving with walls is slightly complex. in order for an engraved wall to add its engraving to the room value, the room must contain, both the wall itself, and also the location the engraver was standing when it was engraved, this gives wall engravings a sort of directionality leading to people double walling so engravings can face into a room from both sides.
So you don't care about using glitches and Non-contiguous rooms. heres the way you break room value with minimal effort and resources.
1. Make a line of wall with 1 tile gap either side (if your engravers are really good this might only need to be 2-3 long)
2. Make the lines of floor either side of this wall out of the most valuable material you can (aluminum or platinum are great, steel and gold also work), and have your best engraver engrave them
3. Place doors on top of all those engraved tiles, what sort doesn't really matter, as they will be adding 10-100 value to 2-3k value floor tiles
4. For every room add the doors and the wall(this is a convenient rectangle). the wall makes the doors shareable, and the doors make the engraved floor shareable.
5. For optimal results hide this to the south east of your area, otherwise the zone icons can get rather confused
Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?
Glad to hear this is being worked on, it's quite unpleasant on a sufficiently high-resolution screen.Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?
Yeah, I'm doing that. Different scale modes are part of the plans for the SDL2 update I'm doing.
When an ice boulder melts underground, it becomes an item named "water" that differs from regular water in such fashion: it has no liquid level, does not leave mud when it evaporates, is cyan rather than blue, and dwarves eventually remove it with a "clean" job.Melted ice boulders cannot be used as a water source.
The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world and avoid insinuations of "promoting pedophilia/child labor/child soldiers" for allowing these things at ages appropriate for the setting/time period but inappropriate for modern ideas. So they're probably never going to be reset to the old 12 years of age at adulthood. A lot of people have suggested implementing a teenager/adolescent age group above 13, where they start taking on apprenticeships/jobs at their leisure and developing relationships with other teenagers. Maybe that's a possibility.As opposed to promoting "use of baby as a shield/deadly weapon", all very arbitrary. Ha ha...
The ice issue is a bug, basically. Water in its various forms don't all point back to flowing water, but often to water as an item glob.
The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world<…>
Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.
Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.
As far as i know, its there, but its not a skill but a labor buried very deep beneath the custom labor groupings that wouldn't be worth scooping out anymore due to the limited group slots.
Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.
Random thought regarding pathfinding algorithm:
If you pathfinded simultaneously from both dwarf and their goal (lets say a closed room), and formed path when these two floodfills collide (or just use the second pathfinding source to see if its an enclosed space), would that help avoid lags due to unreachable goal (since you will quickly get the result: room is a closed space)?
(also technically if using dijkstras, two small search circles colliding at edge has less area than a single big one, doubling search speed?)
See example:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
tile1.reachability == tile2.reachability
then the two tiles are reachable, otherwise they're not. The game does not do full pathfinding across the entire map to determine reachability every time a dwarf tries to pathfind to somewhere they can't reach, the game would run at something more like 0.05 FPS rather than the 6 FPS it drops to when multiple units are repeatedly repathing.The child ages was probably done to appease modern ideas about adulthood, to make the game "acceptable" for sale across the world<…>
Ah, so it's mainly capitalism that's to blame for unrealism.
A question to Putnam. What was your first impression on DF source code as a developer? Was it good? Was it OK? Was ot bad?
Well, it's pretty well-optimized and the biggest low-hanging fruit I found was an oversight rather than some fundamental optimization issue. The rest is as you would expect from a decades-long solo project, which is to say, consistent enough that I can actually get used to it, which is, to be frank, the best one can ever ask for.Thanks, Putnam))
I've got two main questions:
1. Could a toggle get added to the stocks screen that hides all the placed/constructed items? It's impossible to know how much of a metal you have left if you used some for walls/floors as they're counted together and you can only tell if it's been used by whether or not the melt button appears for a specific item.
2. Could the stockpile screen be made a bit more granular? ex: Moving clothing to their own category; replacing "usable" and "unusable" toggles with a submenu for equipment/clothe size; creating a writing category that holds sheets, quires, scrolls, book bindings, and scroll rollers (replacing the sheets category). It would be amazing if we could create and edit our own categories like we can for work details, but I understand if that's an ordeal to accomplish.
Are the fort mode map exports, timelapse maps, or exportable king lists ever making a comeback?From Jan 4th Future of the Fortress:
QuoteQuote from: Kadzar
What's the current priority for adding things like maps/exports for Legends mode to the Steam/itch.io release?
Quote from: Stained_Class
Will Legends exports like the xml dump, the maps .bmp exports and other infos on the world like the world gen file, be back in a future version of the Premium game?
It's up there with other stuff that used to be in the game but is missing. All important to do, and I'd expect all of it back before adventure mode is fully updated because they are all pretty straightforward, but there might be exceptions here and there if the wrinkles get nasty.
Are the fort mode map exports, timelapse maps, or exportable king lists ever making a comeback?From Jan 4th Future of the Fortress:QuoteQuoteQuote from: Kadzar
What's the current priority for adding things like maps/exports for Legends mode to the Steam/itch.io release?
Quote from: Stained_Class
Will Legends exports like the xml dump, the maps .bmp exports and other infos on the world like the world gen file, be back in a future version of the Premium game?
It's up there with other stuff that used to be in the game but is missing. All important to do, and I'd expect all of it back before adventure mode is fully updated because they are all pretty straightforward, but there might be exceptions here and there if the wrinkles get nasty.
Is it a bug or a feature that water pressure isn't transferred diagonally?
It seems like it's a bug, but the wiki and a lot of people treat it more like a feature.
Quote from: TachytaeniusWas diagonal gaps removing water pressure an intentional feature, and if not, do you feel like you can't change it now?
I can't think of a specific reason. It's likely faster to only use four directions, but I don't think that was a concern. And it's weird, since water can flow diagonally.
What is you vision of gods nature in M&M arc? Are they always primodial and unchanged? Or sometimes gods can be created or altered by compound believe of large enough amount of people?
Being able to kill god is a pretty common element of many different video games, so i wouldn't be surprised if it makes its way into DF.My question was mostly about people being able to create a new god by believing. Or changing god's aspects like sphere by believeing. For example a new religion with slightly different view of the god emerges and becomes dominant in the world will the corresponding god change to fit the religion?
As far as I understand, just about anything that's reasonable is desired to be possible.Being able to kill god is a pretty common element of many different video games, so i wouldn't be surprised if it makes its way into DF.My question was mostly about people being able to create a new god by believing. Or changing god's aspects like sphere by believeing. For example a new religion with slightly different view of the god emerges and becomes dominant in the world will the corresponding god change to fit the religion?
I've not heard of any way for a dwarf to completely forget who they are, causing a natural or re-rolled personality???
Have you ever considered adding something like this?
with spells, gods curses, extreme physical or physiological trauma
Are there particular problems that could prevent something like this being added?
Any chance that some of the money coming in will be spent on digital certificates for bay12games.com and bay12forums.com, and setting them up to use https?
Yeah, you can get SSL certificates for free these days even, so money can't be the problem.
LetsEncrypt has no such requirements. https://letsencrypt.org/docs/faq/
-snip-
Outside of a strange mood, Dwarves cannot make blunt weapons out of otherwise wonderfully dense gold, platinum, or lead. Is this a game design decision?Not sure how it would not be a game design decision. There are metals you can make armor and weapons out of and ones that you can not. That didn't accidentally happen.
For context, there have been several forum threads on this topic but no firm answers:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160130.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=95225.0
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Welcome to the forums, Kyo!
Your questions look very much like suggestions, so try keeping them on the Suggestions Board. This is actually for the sake of the suggestion, since Toady keeps track of them over there, but the same cannot be said of this thread.
Of course, it can be validating to get an answer from Toady, and the line between suggestion and question about the future is not always clear. Consequently, many half-suggestion, half-questions still slip in. Many of these are from new forumites, but we veterans are also guilty from time to time. That said, a rule of thumb I try to use myself is this: if you're making a case for it, it's a suggestion.
Finally, text to Toady should be lime green. :)
What is you vision of gods nature in M&M arc? Are they always primodial and unchanged? Or sometimes gods can be created or altered by compound believe of large enough amount of people?
Not sure how it would not be a game design decision. There are metals you can make armor and weapons out of and ones that you can not. That didn't accidentally happen.
Is this simply a suggestion that they should be?
It's likely a means of keeping the AI from making bad choices on materials used for weapons and armor.So, while this does help to filter out large sets of bad options, it’s situational (relies on assumptions that are not always true), crude (does not discern daggers from mauls),and still insufficient.
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but DF is supposed to be simulating a medieval world where international trade can make materials available even if a particular civ or site doesn't have access to them on their own.
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But the AI is too stupid/hasn't been programmed to ignore inferior materials choices for military equipment. They still use copper, for instance, when they have access to iron, bronze or steel in sufficient quantities to outfit their forces. We could remove copper too, but that takes away yet another option from players.
Brilliant ideas all round. And lost to time by the time a weapon materials rewrite occurs because they were posted to Future of the Fortress thread for some reason. Oh well.It's likely a means of keeping the AI from making bad choices on materials used for weapons and armor.So, while this does help to filter out large sets of bad options, it’s situational (relies on assumptions that are not always true), crude (does not discern daggers from mauls),and still insufficient.
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but DF is supposed to be simulating a medieval world where international trade can make materials available even if a particular civ or site doesn't have access to them on their own.
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But the AI is too stupid/hasn't been programmed to ignore inferior materials choices for military equipment. They still use copper, for instance, when they have access to iron, bronze or steel in sufficient quantities to outfit their forces. We could remove copper too, but that takes away yet another option from players.
It would work better with more functional categories (e.g. tags for suitability as bludgeon, blade, handle or spring) and somewhat randomized optimization criteria (performance/cost/weight).
LetsEncrypt has no such requirements. https://letsencrypt.org/docs/faq/
Interesting. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised. After reading that page (and a few others on that site), I’d say that I’d highly recommend that Toady One consider obtaining certificates from them.
<snip/>
I actually came to this thread to ask why the forums don't have a cert yet considering you can set one up with LetsEncrypt for free in like under 5 minutes lol. Please folks, do it! Then I won't have to click through an annoying warning every time I visit the forums!
Is it a possibility to bring back the [PRINT_MODE:TEXT] text mode? I loved to play 47.05 on multiple devices via SSH.
In older versions, it was possible to secede from your civ by rejecting the offer to become a barony. This apparently has been changed to only delay the question until the next year without changing political relations. Will the option to secede come back?It's never been possible to secede from your civ. At least not since 2014 when the outside world was turned on. Maybe a thing before that? Not sure.
<snip>It's never been possible to secede from your civ. At least not since 2014 when the outside world was turned on. Maybe a thing before that? Not sure.
Quote from: Dirst, in 2014Will a fortress be able to secede from its parent civilization? Would this be under player control, or need to result from a factional conflict?
You can sort of do that when you refuse to become a barony, but there still aren't repercussions. We won't get into that until start scenarios, outside settlements and your own map armies start coming into play.
Right "sort of". But you still get migrants from your civilization and their trade caravans, and go to war when your civ goes to war, and when you retire, the site will be treated exactly like any other member of the civilization. So, "sort of but not really at all" is the current situation.<snip>It's never been possible to secede from your civ. At least not since 2014 when the outside world was turned on. Maybe a thing before that? Not sure.
I was uncertain so I googled far and wide before asking, and my source for that was Toady himself! Though to be more specific, he said you can "sort of" secede.
Source http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg5140546#msg5140546Quote from: ToadyOne, in 2014Quote from: Dirst, in 2014Will a fortress be able to secede from its parent civilization? Would this be under player control, or need to result from a factional conflict?
You can sort of do that when you refuse to become a barony, but there still aren't repercussions. We won't get into that until start scenarios, outside settlements and your own map armies start coming into play.
1.) What in Sam Hill is an ANY_SOAP_MATERIAL token?
"A token used in defining custom reactions which produce soap goods, armor & weapons." - Would a forbidden beast made of FILTH_Y be weak to bolts made out of soap?
2.) Speaking of filth, will the GENERATES_MIASMA token ever be changed so as to permit materials other than rotting meat to produce miasma?
I've been trying to get a poop mod working for awhile, and the self-interaction logic is complicated enough as it is, (getting the self_interaction delay triggers just right, getting the dwarves to be variable levels of poop shy, having the dwarves physically explode from ruptured organs due to their own poop shyness, getting them dwarves not to poop in the hallways, and getting the dwarves to be consistent in whether they decide to drop their deuce inside of the fort's drinking well or not.) and just having an actual on-point material that functions correctly would be rad. Right now, I have to use RAW_FISH made out of DWARF?. The RAW_FISH looks like an actual dwarf, which then rots into an entire dead dwarf, which then rots again and produces miasma. It's neat, since the dwarves won't actually clean it up on their own for some reason, and thus it requires player micro.
The problem with the work around is that dead raw_fish dwarf statue poop/stuff won't fall through grates and things, which defeats the whole plumbing gameplay idea behind the mod. Also, it's kind of hard to tell whats a dwarf and whats a giant turd that looks like a dwarf.
There are a lot of issues & QoL considerations that came with Premium (as to be expected). How are you prioritizing what to work on and otherwise staying organized?
What was your design reason for splitting & recombining the old Masonry-Smoothing-Architect skills? (I'm still confused about Stone Cutting vs. Stone Carving).
1. How functional prostetics will be in non magical world? Just a pegleg and a hook or dwarven SCIENCE is able to provide somebetter solutions. If so then how anout non magical power armor?
2. I assume absence of health overview of fortress as it was before is just a matter of time or it was removed intentionally?
it would be possible to enable an earlier adventure mode release, maybe through a beta branch, even whith the old keyboard based controls/menus?
as a new player what really got me into the game was the ability to play long term runs with multiple forts, and exploring the world i shaped with adventurers. I usually don't play colony sims at all, but the the vast scope of the possible interactions and the proc gen nature of the game hooked me in this time. The lack of adventure mode is however extermly painful for me, it feels like beeing keeped out the most interesting part of the game.
Since the steam release i tried several times to get into the v47 but it's like a totally different game, mostly because of the graphics. So here i am, hoping in a early beta branch, because the developement of the new controls seems to be quite a long term task.
Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?
So my question is, in what way will we be able to interact with Legends data in the future?
Using dfhack in old versions you can run a exportlegends command and get an (huge) xml-file.
Will/is something similar possible in the steam release?
Remains of ancient civilizations are a common fantasy trope. Are there any plans to implement it in DF? Technically, this could be as easy as generating a random civ, and having all of its members die mysteriously before year 1, leaving behind only ruins. It would be something conceptually similar to how vaults work currently, but with a different flavor. Of course, the key here is to have the ruins be interesting enough to visit.
Quote from: Silverwing235I trust the bumping up (or down as it may be) of all entity-having creatures' (dwarves, elves, humans at least) CHILD tags to 18 is just temporary? Entirely too heavy post-industrial legislation vibes over here as it is, you see.Quote from: Shonai_DwellerWhat was the reason the age of adulthood for all races was raised from 12 to 18 in 50.01?
The switch from child to adult is very sudden regardless of the age it happens at, how would you like to see the transition work in some far off future version of the game where all is possible?
(Yeah I know there are threads where people randomly guess at the reasons, but I'm interested in the actual thinking there. 18 is kind of unprecedented for a "medieval" type game regardless of modern sensibilities).
Is there any intention to bring the architecture skill/labor back? Since it's been removed, from what I can tell the requirements for buildings that needed it before are now just carpentry for wood, masonry for stone, and any metalsmith labor (besides furnace operation) for metal.
For what it's worth, I'm fine with this being cut in the interest of streamlining things.
how much autonomy does putnam have when deciding what to work on?
has there been any discussion with her yet on plans for the Big Wait?
If you pathfinded simultaneously from both dwarf and their goal (lets say a closed room), and formed path when these two floodfills collide (or just use the second pathfinding source to see if its an enclosed space), would that help avoid lags due to unreachable goal (since you will quickly get the result: room is a closed space)?
I noticed while looking into Legends Mode that certain hyperlinks seem oddly left out? Masterwork Engravings for example, are given names in every other tab, but ONLY allowed to be opened up in the Art Tab. Meanwhile War Logs describing the details of battles including how many combatants and of what type, as well as the aesthetic "who outwitted who" description don't even get a tab of their own, and have to be manually scrolled through the Chronicles By Age Tab to find their appropriate links.
I feel like this is just an honest mistake, because it doesn't make sense that the hyperlinks system would leave out the ease and convenience of having ALL named historical subject matter be hyperlinked to its appropriate tab?
Would love to know if anyone else is having this problem, or if it's just me. Just to clarify again, my problem is that Masterwork Engravings and Warfare Logs are named throughout every other tab but aren't given hyperlinks except through very specific tabs, whereas other historical subject matter always has a hyperlink no matter what tab you're in.
If it's named, it has a hyperlink across all tabs, except for these two apparently?
Updated Edit: Apparently the Structures Tab is also not hyperlinked through other tabs - does this just need a lil more time to be fully implemented then? Only asking cus I love the hyperlinks system and it gets pretty grating to have to keep backtracking to figure out where certain bits of named information are hiding.
A question to Putnam. What was your first impression on DF source code as a developer? Was it good? Was it OK? Was ot bad?
A few questions for Toady and/or Putnam regarding modding capabilities
Any idea if or how I could change which “group” professions are in, or add new ones?
For example, if I wanted to move stone crafting and woodcrafting from craftsman to stoneworker and woodworker respectively
Or if I had some sort of Industrial Revolution mod that required an “Electrician” job, and I wanted to put it under engineering.
Or if I wanted to break up craftsman and farmer into separate smaller category professions (rancher, chef, cloth worker, etc)
Also, would it be possible to assign custom profession names to exclusively legendary civilian dwarves akin to the military ones? I like to give them custom nicknames, so I know not to conscript them, and I was wondering if I could use the raws to do that automatically. There has to be something that signals them to blink.
Also with music, how do the particular raw elements for the soundtracks work? Do the sound cards trigger with the same conditions as their full song counterparts? Does the game respect track length, so you could plug in full tracks of your own in place of the sound cards without worrying about overlap, or even add new ones?
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Well, it seems from digging deeper I’ve answered a few of my own questions.
To force name color changes, I could probably make a bunch of appointed “noble” positions corresponding to the category professions, with matching colors.
As for appearances, I noticed colors were assigned to professions, not the other way around, and they’re assigned by individual clothing item. Like I could make woodcrafters have blue shirts but yellow pants and shoes.
Though one thing I noticed while digging is that none of the colors had any noble, soldier, or other assigned professions attached to them, therefore they use all black as a default, was this intentional? I could see no colors having soldiers defined cause you’d want them to have the armor material instead, but the nobles and assigned positions I’m not sure about.
1. Could a toggle get added to the stocks screen that hides all the placed/constructed items? It's impossible to know how much of a metal you have left if you used some for walls/floors as they're counted together and you can only tell if it's been used by whether or not the melt button appears for a specific item.
2. Could the stockpile screen be made a bit more granular? ex: Moving clothing to their own category; replacing "usable" and "unusable" toggles with a submenu for equipment/clothe size; creating a writing category that holds sheets, quires, scrolls, book bindings, and scroll rollers (replacing the sheets category). It would be amazing if we could create and edit our own categories like we can for work details, but I understand if that's an ordeal to accomplish.
Are the fort mode map exports, timelapse maps, or exportable king lists ever making a comeback?
Is it a bug or a feature that water pressure isn't transferred diagonally?
It seems like it's a bug, but the wiki and a lot of people treat it more like a feature.
Do you have a rough idea on how the fort economies are gonna work after the economy update?
What is you vision of gods nature in M&M arc? Are they always primodial and unchanged? Or sometimes gods can be created or altered by compound believe of large enough amount of people?
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My question was mostly about people being able to create a new god by believing. Or changing god's aspects like sphere by believeing. For example a new religion with slightly different view of the god emerges and becomes dominant in the world will the corresponding god change to fit the religion?
I've not heard of any way for a dwarf to completely forget who they are, causing a natural or re-rolled personality???
Have you ever considered adding something like this?
with spells, gods curses, extreme physical or physiological trauma
Are there particular problems that could prevent something like this being added?
Any chance that some of the money coming in will be spent on digital certificates for bay12games.com and bay12forums.com, and setting them up to use https?
Dwarf behaviour is very complex and interesting, but there's one point where it falls flat the most, in my opinion: the way civilians handle threats such as invasions and megabeasts feels very robot-like. How feasible would it be to develop a more "organic" threat response? i. e., the first dwarf to see a threat screams very loudly or something like that, and the citizens in a large area either run to their rooms and lock the doors if they're cowardly, while the braver ones grab the nearest improvised weapons, form a group and go investigate the source of the scream. That and walking around armed and doing voluntary civilian drills after the fortress has been attacked a few times recently would make their behaviour feel much more organic. Can we expect anything like that before or during army & siege update?
Thank you for introducing so much joy into the world with your games. Hope you're happy and healthy! <3 I usually lurk, but had to join and ask:
1. Are cavern invader numbers pulled from local (site) populations like wild animals, whole world pops, or created ex nihilo? There are numbers that appear in detailed Legends exports which I assume sum of the number of "lizard men", for instance, in the entire world. But are there regional subdivisions beyond that, like one group that lives in the mountains and one group in the hills? An amount just for our site maybe?
2. I guess the real question between the lines here is: if I choose to genocidally exterminate pacify all the angry natives, could I cause them to go extinct and/or actually stop invasions?
3. Besides that, any chance for brokering peace with the cavern invaders in the future? Maybe we could offer them tribute? I could sympathize if they didn't want that, though!
Did something change in how minecarts work? Looks like some of the old tricks don't work anymore. FOr example minecarts are no longer generate mist when slide over the water on high speed
I've think I've noticed that wars are more common and long-lasting once one begins playing in the world (as opposed to during world gen). I assume that probably most activities occur differently, or at different rates, in world gen vs after the world has been active. I was wondering how these world events are handled mechanically in the two different modes? Like, is the code for the various types of events similar in both phases or did each event have to be extensively rewritten for world activation? Any notable examples?
Also, do you have a sort of philosophy when it comes to modeling these historical-type events, in terms of how important the involved actors' personalities and ethics should be, or if things like going to war ought to be based on more practical considerations like likelihood of success and some sort of need or goal to achieve? Or should things be randomized and up to interpretation by the player?
Outside of a strange mood, Dwarves cannot make blunt weapons out of otherwise wonderfully dense platinum. Is this a game design decision?
Is it a possibility to bring back the [PRINT_MODE:TEXT] text mode? I loved to play 47.05 on multiple devices via SSH.
In older versions, it was possible to secede from your civ by rejecting the offer to become a barony. This apparently has been changed to only delay the question until the next year without changing political relations. Will the option to secede come back?
Regarding stairs, I realized that we can no longer build an Up-Stair directly on the same tile as a carved Up/Down stair, to block entry from lower elevations. Was that an intentional change?
Are there also plans to re-implement the ability to build 1 elevation stairs--instead of spanning at minimum 2 elevations--for situations like these where we only want one stair?
Quote from: CriperumDid something change in how minecarts work? Looks like some of the old tricks don't work anymore. FOr example minecarts are no longer generate mist when slide over the water on high speed
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8449691#msg8449691
I don't recall changing them at all, or even being in that code area. We should probably add the ability to do vehicles and tracks to the arena ha ha.
[color=limegreen]in lime green[/color]
), though parts of yours could probably be split off to the Suggestions board (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0). :)
Hello! Before I'll ask my questions, I've wanted to congratulate you on the release, I've been playing DF since 2013-ish and I'm so happy that the launch of the game went so well. Thank you a hundredfold for all the hard work that you've put into the project over the years :)1b: Yes. This is part of the centaur problem, i.e. finding out how to create hybrid of different races species. The easier version is to come up with a way to create offspring based on creatures with the same body plan (such as e.g. human/dwarf/elf/goblin/kobold) and same general properties (human/dwarf, but elf falls that part on immortality, goblin on immortality+no-eat, kobold on egg laying, with animal people obviously falling on their animal parts), and onto biologically "impossible" mashes such as centaurs, cerberii, etc. that might still be possible magically.
I've got a mishmash of different questions:
1. Will relationships/marriages between different races ever be added into the game (i.e. human-elf, dwarf-elf, elf-dwarf, human-dwarf)?
1b. If yes, in-line with common fantasy tropes, would you consider ever adding half-elves, half-dwarves etc. as offspring of such marriages?
2. I remember seeing transgender/non-binary pops being mentioned a few years back somewhere as something that was planned. Is this still somewhere in the development pipeline perchance? I would absolutely love to see this included at some point :)
3. Is there a chance that (perhaps as part of the map rewrite update) eventually the map will be an actual projection of a planet instead of a rectangle suspended in space? I imagine that once boats become a thing then being able to circumnavigate the globe would be a nice feature.
4. Will there ever be a more complex diplomacy and interactions system with other sites/civs? Anything to make the messenger useful for anything more than requesting workers?
5. Lastly, the Steam edition of the soundtrack currently is just compromised of 176 kbps MP3s, whereas the Bandcamp release has much higher quality files available. Is there a chance that FLAC tracks will be included in the Steam version at any point?
Any chance we could have pressure occasionally equalize the top of a standing body of liquid once it fills the contain it's in? I'm talking about having that annoying one remaining 4/7 tile magically combine with the 2/7 tile at the other end of the 200 tile long tunnel so that we don't have to wait in-game months for RNGesus to allow the tiles to find eachother with the current random fluid wandering, distracting dwarves the entire time with "dangerous terrain" warnings. Might even significantly speed up the current pathfinding recalculations caused by large standing bodies of flowing mixed 3/7-4/7 water.
Perhaps even a more granular fluid model with 255 levels instead of 7? The dwarves at a dry end of long corridor filled with 7/7 water at the other end wouldn't have to wait years for any water to get to them, and we would be able to have much more interesting and/or reasonable evaporation and flow mechanics with what looks a pretty small change.
When anyone from a civilization passes over a trap the trap location becomes known to that individual and the information is immediately passed on to the civilization the moment that individual leaves the fortress map. Notably, this includes members of performance troupes, who are usually members both of the troupe and a civilization, and troupe membership seems to trump civilization membership when it comes to enemy identification (until fighting breaks out), so members of the goblin civ you're at war with can come and go as part of performance troupes without any problem. I've never been able to identify an actual spy (not to be confused with villain agents, which come in never ending streams even as legitimate visitors die of old age), despite having looked quite intensively for them. Either they're quite rare, or they're too cunning for me to detect (using DFHack scripts).
How does trap finding by enemies work? I know diplomats and spies can find them, but I'm not sure on the specifics, and the wiki doesn't have anything on it. May I get some in depth explanation?
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2. I remember seeing transgender/non-binary pops being mentioned a few years back somewhere as something that was planned. Is this still somewhere in the development pipeline perchance? I would absolutely love to see this included at some point :)
3. Is there a chance that (perhaps as part of the map rewrite update) eventually the map will be an actual projection of a planet instead of a rectangle suspended in space? I imagine that once boats become a thing then being able to circumnavigate the globe would be a nice feature.
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2. Currently cross dressing is rendered impossible by the fact that clothes aren't gendered and there aren't any other gender specific customs either, and I don't think the state surgery is in (based on the general reference timeline of 1400) would result in many individual want to try that route (I don't think the gelders would get many "unusual" requests from willing customers). Homosexual leanings already exist, and is currently the limit of what can be displayed.
3. No. This has been asked before, and the answer is that there is no reasonably way to make a rectangular grid out of a sphere. A cylinder (were moving off one side causes you to end up on the other) would be possible, as would the arcade variant where moving off to one side causes you to end up at the other side as well as moving off the top causes you to end up at the bottom. The latter is topologically identical to a torus, but it's not a possible shape if you bring in reality and demand that each tile should be a square of the same size. Of course, the "torus" might eventually be possible in a weird magical realm that's not supposed to make full real world sense, should Toady elect to create such a realm.
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... Surface escape velocity, if you try to lift straight off, is a low double-digit percentage of light speed. It is, in other words, "sticky" -- a flytrap for non-supertech civilizations. You can run experiments on its surface with reasonable confidence that they can't escape. If they try, you can sterilize them by torching off a supernova a couple of light years above the disk (if you can build an Alderson disk you can for sure engineer a supernova) and if things really go to hell in a hand-basket you can kick the props out from under it and suck everything into a medium-huge black hole (a convenient side-effect of which will be a hypernova that exterminates any escapees within several light years, however well shielded (think in terms of the neutrino pulse from a ~50,000 solar mass core collapse)).
Think of it as the ultimate petri dish for examining dangerous life forms.
Please include 4:3 support too! I sometimes play on a 1024x768 CRT for that good ole glow and have noticed UI scaling issues.Right now zooming in/out or scaling the UI in the premium version results in textures being blurry and it's especially visible on higher resolutions.
Do you plan to add nearest neighbor scaling in the future?
Yeah, I'm doing that. Different scale modes are part of the plans for the SDL2 update I'm doing.
Also, Male and Female are "just" castes of dwarves. It should be possible with fairly easy modding to create additional castes; whether setting up the additional relationship matrix can be done practically or at all is a more complicated question.
Clothes and accessories are gender-neutral
cross dressing is rendered impossible by the fact that clothes aren't gendered
Quote from: KatI have a question, mostly to do with things that would be beneficial for creating mods, not entirely sure how useful they'd be for normal gameplay though.It would be cool. It's complicated to make things more details though, and the clothing generally feels sort of silly sometimes, because of the amount of calculation that has to go on just to get people to choose their clothing properly. I'd like to do something sometime though. I just noted while playing around the other day that amulets are worn on the head even though we have necks now, and I thought about a simple version of your suggestion, looked at the clothing code and was like, "well, some other time..." We'll have to see.
Are user-definable clothing items something that might be implemented ?
What I mean by this is... I have a modded beastman race, they have horns. I'd like to be able to create clothing (and/or jewellery) that they could wear on their horns. So, being able to define new bits of clothing with a token like[WORN_ON_BODY_PART:HORN], would be ideal for me.
if you've toggled beards for everyone
All creatures have data stored in text files that can be easily edited (called "raws" as -amongst other reasons- they used to be in a folder called "raws").Quoteif you've toggled beards for everyone
Is there an option to do that? Have every dwarf, male as well as female, sport beards? In my view all dwarves wear facial hair so it's a feature I would use, but couldn't find in the options.
That's as close to "just toggle it on" as modding can really get. Playing with the Dwarf raws to make a variation on them can show you just how easy it is to mod the game.
Is it intentional that historical artifacts produced during world-gen do not simulate macabre moods? If this is intentional, what are there reasons for wanting to avoid historical artifacts made from vermin remains?
World-gen simulates fey and fell just fine, although you will occasionally get a chains made out of sand, which I don't think are possible items in actual fort-mode. Certainly, any number of historical artifacts can be evidently made out of dwarf/elf/goblin bones, you will not see any historical artifacts made out of "vermin remains", as the only mood which has any probability of producing an artifact whose base reagent is a vermin remains is the macabre mood. Hence, we assume that the macabre mood is not being simulated during world-gen, which is something of a curiosity.
[ If some randos on the Internet can do it, then surely the game's developer(s) can too, right?Right. But randos on the internet have collectively MUCH more time. And they cannot fix save corruptions and crashes so they focus on small fixes.
Is it intentional that historical artifacts produced during world-gen do not simulate macabre moods? If this is intentional, what are the reasons for wanting to avoid historical artifacts made from vermin remains?
World-gen simulates fey and fell just fine, although you will occasionally get a chains made out of sand, which I don't think are possible items in actual fort-mode. Certainly, any number of historical artifacts can be evidently made out of dwarf/elf/goblin bones, you will not see any historical artifacts made out of "vermin remains", as the only mood which has any probability of producing an artifact whose base reagent is a vermin remains is the macabre mood. Hence, we assume that the macabre mood is not being simulated during world-gen, which is something of a curiosity.
Since it's possible for worldgen moods to fail: could it be that artifact materials are sourced from what resources a civ has access to, and since vermin remains aren't an option, macabre moods always fail? That, or they could be omitted for that reason. Either makes equal amounts of sense to me.
I have noticed that there are a whole lot of mods whose only purpose is to edit one or a few lines in the raws to fix a minor bug, like pools not spawning creatures that can only spawn in pools, dwarves not being able to wield big weapons, etc. Wouldn't it be wise to make a list of these small bugs and squish them all at once? If some randos on the Internet can do it, then surely the game's developer(s) can too, right?
Hello! Before I'll ask my questions, I've wanted to congratulate you on the release, I've been playing DF since 2013-ish and I'm so happy that the launch of the game went so well. Thank you a hundredfold for all the hard work that you've put into the project over the years :)1b: Yes. This is part of the centaur problem, i.e. finding out how to create hybrid of different races species. The easier version is to come up with a way to create offspring based on creatures with the same body plan (such as e.g. human/dwarf/elf/goblin/kobold) and same general properties (human/dwarf, but elf falls that part on immortality, goblin on immortality+no-eat, kobold on egg laying, with animal people obviously falling on their animal parts), and onto biologically "impossible" mashes such as centaurs, cerberii, etc. that might still be possible magically.
I've got a mishmash of different questions:
1. Will relationships/marriages between different races ever be added into the game (i.e. human-elf, dwarf-elf, elf-dwarf, human-dwarf)?
1b. If yes, in-line with common fantasy tropes, would you consider ever adding half-elves, half-dwarves etc. as offspring of such marriages?
These problems are hard, but probably not perceived as impossible, and so are intended to be tacked eventually (which is well within the "ever" time frame). The result will probably not be as "primitive" as half-elves, but rather some kind of simulation of genetics that allows for offspring to inherit varying traits from their parents (such as a stocky daughter with a rounded skull and but prominent brow ridges and a slim son with an elongated skull and limited brow ridges from from the same neanderthal and sapiens parents), and, as a result of that, offspring that may inherit traits from a more varied ancestry (human/dwarf/elf/kobold with differing proportions of each, for instance, where the "proportions" would really be in the form of "genes").
Related though, have you considered appointing at least one dedicated moderator to this forum?
Given the repeated incidents we've had in some of the politics-related subforums in the general section, I've been hit with the realization that having to split your attention between game development and community moderation is probably not ideal for anyone.
Related though, have you considered appointing at least one dedicated moderator to this forum?
Given the repeated incidents we've had in some of the politics-related subforums in the general section, I've been hit with the realization that having to split your attention between game development and community moderation is probably not ideal for anyone.
A lot of those boards in the “finally” section – I don’t really know why they’re there except maybe just to keep that stuff out of the rest of the forum.
Related though, have you considered appointing at least one dedicated moderator to this forum?
Given the repeated incidents we've had in some of the politics-related subforums in the general section, I've been hit with the realization that having to split your attention between game development and community moderation is probably not ideal for anyone.
A lot of those boards in the “finally” section – I don’t really know why they’re there except maybe just to keep that stuff out of the rest of the forum.
Hey, FGAR is a more popular board than the Dwarf Fortress ones! Ok I know that probably wasn't the board you meant. Life Advice board attracts weirdos sometimes, also.
...though as far as I can tell, the politicking in lower boards doesn't really result in all that many moderation incidents, and I can't recall any huge ones recently. Check the mod log - there haven't been a lot of bannable incidents in bay12 history, relative to the length of that history.
Admittedly, letting more people in should be a compound issue with typical moderation; more of it would be needed if the Steam crowd flooded in.
Lately the updates/blog posts on the Bay 12 website and Steam alike have been very sparse. Can we expect this trend to continue going forwards, or is rather it that the current kind of work is hard to write about? The transparency in DF's dev cycle has always been a really strong point, imo, so it would be sad to see it lessened.Worth noting that Putnam has been posting almost every day on bug fixing and optimization progress. Not at this forum (it's not really the right set up for daily comment snippits), but "transparency" is still going on.
Lately the updates/blog posts on the Bay 12 website and Steam alike have been very sparse. Can we expect this trend to continue going forwards, or is rather it that the current kind of work is hard to write about? The transparency in DF's dev cycle has always been a really strong point, imo, so it would be sad to see it lessened.Worth noting that Putman has been posting almost every day on bug fixing and optimization progress. Not at this forum (it's not really the right set up for daily comment snippits), but "transparency" is still going on.
(Also Toady's devlog for the month is likely "bought a new suit, travelled, built a shelf to put my award trophy on". He did say in the last devblog update that February would be a weird month as far as progress was concerned).
"Bloat58, MORE LIVESTOCK, (Future): Livestock. Use of feathers. Use of wool. Various eggs and nests. Dwarves should hate eating plants all the time."That's a list of planned features. Although depending on how low priority it is, you might have to wait 20 years to see it. May as well mod it in yourself if you can.
It seems like this bloat-bucket list item has been mostly addressed, minus the use of feathers in game. Are there any plans to add a 'decorate with feathers option' to the craftdwarf's workshop? Or should DF modders plan on providing the functionality in .5+?
Are there currently any plans to add more music tracks to Dwarf Fortress? If yes, then specifically, are there any plans to port more of Simon Swerwer's DF-inspired music from the SoundSense days? I know we got Koganusan and some tracks that sound like spiritual successors to his music, but his tracks really are the music of Dwarf Fortress for me, and as much as I love the new tracks (ESPECIALLY Vile Force of Darkness), I kinda miss a lot of the old tracks I used to listen to over SoundSense, and even if a lot of the new tracks sound very similar, it's just not the same.
Now that I think of it, have there been any plans to add something along the same vein as Willow and Light by Kevin McLeod? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwluv_XKCfM In my personal view, this is the song that embodies the mystique of watching over the world as it comes into being before selecting a site that will become your dwarves' new home, and if I had to pick a song I miss the most from SoundSense, it would have to be this one. Now obviously, the real world is going to get in the way now that DF has gone premium, but I figured I'd put this out there.
and I know I've just asked for a lot, but speaking of all this, would there be a way to turn specific individual music tracks on or off? Sometimes I get sick of hearing one certain track or another, but only on that day. A music mod for the other things might be fine, but a music mod to remove existing tracks might be overkill, since that means the entire timeline now lacks that music track forever. If it's not possible, could it be possible to have a player-adjustable weighting system to reduce the frequency of certain tracks while boosting the likelihood of others? That might be enough, because I do remember how increasing the length between tracks did actually help me quite a lot in that regard, but I still kinda get frustrated at how frequently Strange Moods and Craftsdwarfship are always coming up all the freaking time, but I would love to hear Strike The Earth quite a bit more.
1. Will relationships/marriages between different races ever be added into the game (i.e. human-elf, dwarf-elf, elf-dwarf, human-dwarf)?
1b. If yes, in-line with common fantasy tropes, would you consider ever adding half-elves, half-dwarves etc. as offspring of such marriages?
2. I remember seeing transgender/non-binary pops being mentioned a few years back somewhere as something that was planned. Is this still somewhere in the development pipeline perchance? I would absolutely love to see this included at some point :)
3. Is there a chance that (perhaps as part of the map rewrite update) eventually the map will be an actual projection of a planet instead of a rectangle suspended in space? I imagine that once boats become a thing then being able to circumnavigate the globe would be a nice feature.
4. Will there ever be a more complex diplomacy and interactions system with other sites/civs? Anything to make the messenger useful for anything more than requesting workers?
5. Lastly, the Steam edition of the soundtrack currently is just compromised of 176 kbps MP3s, whereas the Bandcamp release has much higher quality files available. Is there a chance that FLAC tracks will be included in the Steam version at any point?
Speaking of Mason and Architect skills being obsolete and you were glad to get rid of them (redo Mason, remove Arch). What are other features of the game you see as wrong/obsolete or anyway in need of complete rework?
One of many things I love about Dwarf Fortress is how open to modding it is, laying the creature definitions out and opening them up to be changed and added to.
Did this way of handling things come with any larger headaches for development?
While writing a mod for a new creature and civ, I ran into trouble with several important tags serving very rigid dual purposes.
For instance, the UPPER_BODY, LOWER_BODY and HEAD tokens are all inherently related to equipment, but also to survivability.
Situations like that make it impossible to create e.g. creatures able to wear headgear on a head they can survive without - if they can wear hats, losing the head will always result in death.
On the flipside, other tokens seem to have no impact on various common circumstances.
To name a couple, creatures with NOBREATHE/NONAUSEA are still troubled by miasma, while creatures with NO_EAT/NO_DRINK/NO_EMOTIONS will still have related needs (but never fulfill them, leading them to be perpetually unfocused).
To what extent are creature-related tags as a whole maintained?
How prominent of a role are they intended to have in the game's current and future systems (thoughts, equipment, labor, magic)?
Are there currently any plans to expand their responsibilities?
Are there currently any plans to "officially" document the responsibilities of existing tags?
Thank you very much for this incredible work.
Dwarf Fortress really is one-of-a-kind, as are both the amount of care invested into- and the community grown around it.
I understand that all in all, these questions relate to a pretty niche element of DF, and that some things just have to be prioritized over others.
Any chance we could have pressure occasionally equalize the top of a standing body of liquid once it fills the contain it's in? I'm talking about having that annoying one remaining 4/7 tile magically combine with the 2/7 tile at the other end of the 200 tile long tunnel so that we don't have to wait in-game months for RNGesus to allow the tiles to find eachother with the current random fluid wandering, distracting dwarves the entire time with "dangerous terrain" warnings. Might even significantly speed up the current pathfinding recalculations caused by large standing bodies of flowing mixed 3/7-4/7 water.
Perhaps even a more granular fluid model with 255 levels instead of 7? The dwarves at a dry end of long corridor filled with 7/7 water at the other end wouldn't have to wait years for any water to get to them, and we would be able to have much more interesting and/or reasonable evaporation and flow mechanics with what looks a pretty small change.
How does trap finding by enemies work? I know diplomats and spies can find them, but I'm not sure on the specifics, and the wiki doesn't have anything on it. May I get some in depth explanation?
Was a bit disappointed to note that Legends Mode no longer refers to "A Time before Time" (such as when a demon thrusts a spire up from the underworld). Was it all changed to the comparitively boring "Year 1" to make way for updates when Mythgen comes along?
Is it intentional that historical artifacts produced during world-gen do not simulate macabre moods? If this is intentional, what are the reasons for wanting to avoid historical artifacts made from vermin remains?
World-gen simulates fey and fell just fine, although you will occasionally get a chains made out of sand, which I don't think are possible items in actual fort-mode. While any number of historical artifacts can be evidently made out of dwarf/elf/goblin bones, you will not however see any historical artifacts made out of "vermin remains", as the only mood which has any probability of producing an artifact whose base reagent is a vermin remains is the macabre mood. Hence, we assume that the macabre mood is not being simulated during world-gen, which is something of a curiosity.
Quote from: SamBucherI have noticed that there are a whole lot of mods whose only purpose is to edit one or a few lines in the raws to fix a minor bug, like pools not spawning creatures that can only spawn in pools, dwarves not being able to wield big weapons, etc. Wouldn't it be wise to make a list of these small bugs and squish them all at once? If some randos on the Internet can do it, then surely the game's developer(s) can too, right?Quote from: dikbutdagrateAre there any plans to allocate potential development time, in the semi-to-near-future, toward addressing some of the longstanding minor bugs concerning the game's default creature raws?
While many of these issues do appear to be very minor in scope, and have already been addressed in a variety of player hosted mods, an official release would really help in lowering the cognitive over-head required from newer players, such as myself, to fix these things whenever we encounter them. It really stinks when we look forward to seeing a specific creature spawning, and it just doesn't!
have you considered appointing at least one dedicated moderator to this forum? The subforum summaries indicate that a couple other users have been appointed as moderators in the past, but far as I can tell from checking their profiles and posts it looks like they haven't been active in years (Kurtulmak was last active over a decade ago, and Jonathan S. Fox not since last year, and both of those have subforum-specific moderator privileges it seems rather than general moderator authority).
Given the repeated incidents we've had in some of the politics-related subforums in the general section, I've been hit with the realization that having to split your attention between game development and community moderation is probably not ideal for anyone.
Have you considered hiring a webmaster?
- Have you treated yourself with the new income? Like a really high end gaming/office chair or some artwork?
- Is a non-mouse interface for Classic theoretically possible with all of the UI changes (regardless of plans for it)?
Do you miss drawing the crayon art rewards? Did you keep any scans/photos of them? Were they involved in helping the art team to draw the sprites?
Are there any mods which you're aware of that you'd consider adapting into the game, or which have or may inspire you to include new features?
Lately the updates/blog posts on the Bay 12 website and Steam alike have been very sparse. Can we expect this trend to continue going forwards, or is rather it that the current kind of work is hard to write about? The transparency in DF's dev cycle has always been a really strong point, imo, so it would be sad to see it lessened.
Subterranean invaders are currently very zerg-like. Shouldn't there be an option to appease them somehow?
Hello, I would like to ask some questions related to the user interface redesign that was part of 0.50.
1. How much did community feedback influence the redesign?
2. Were there any particular community suggestions that were implemented in the new interface?
3. If you did utilize community feedback/suggestions, was Bay 12 Forums the only source for them? Or were there other ones as well?
4. Were there any suggestions that were good at first glance but weren't practical to implement?
5. What UI/UX design theory did you read, if any?
6. Did you take any ideas for the redesign from critical reviews of Dwarf Fortress? If yes, which ones?
7. Did other games influence the redesign? If yes, which ones and in what way?
Unrelated to Dwarf Fortress itself, there's also another question: is there any obstacle to using messages on this forum as research material?
In the arena, are necromancer abilities determined each time the Arena is generated? Seems to be the case, but I might be missing something.
Would be nice to see details of their secrets in the arena, like we can see active syndromes. But that's for the suggestions thread.
"Bloat58, MORE LIVESTOCK, (Future): Livestock. Use of feathers. Use of wool. Various eggs and nests. Dwarves should hate eating plants all the time."
It seems like this bloat-bucket list item has been mostly addressed, minus the use of feathers in game. Are there any plans to add a 'decorate with feathers option' to the craftdwarf's workshop? Or should DF modders plan on providing the functionality in .5+?
Macabre Mood.
Aren't these marked by dwarves beginning to "skulk and brood"?
My worldgen has lots of these.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VsGxzDR9/mole.png)
Sorry, modded creature. Have skulking and brooding regular dwarves creating artifacts too.
But, yeah, no vermin remains that I can see, which is presumably what Toady meant about not getting all the materials done.
Also, baffled as to where you get 33% from?? You have access to Toady's code?
Heh, my bad!
It's zero-dot-fifty, not zero-point-five!
Sorry, modded creature. Have skulking and brooding regular dwarves creating artifacts too.
But, yeah, no vermin remains that I can see, which is presumably what Toady meant about not getting all the materials done.
Also, baffled as to where you get 33% from?? You have access to Toady's code?
Ran a fairly exhaustive series of tests. It supports the notion that all historical animal bone artifacts are now produced exclusively by dwarves who are listed as having had macabre moods, as of premium.
Where did I get 33% from?
https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack/blob/master/plugins/strangemood.cpp#L721
https://github.com/DFHack/dfhack/blob/master/plugins/strangemood.cpp#L725
wg moods obviously don't work the same as fort mode moods. Macabre moods just choose a random bone mat available to the civ, no weighting on vermin or anything.
Honestly, the old keyboard controls really were not that bad, despite the memes about it. It could use a little polish, but for a game like this, keyboard cursor is so much faster and efficient.Quote from: Immortal-D- Is a non-mouse interface for Classic theoretically possible with all of the UI changes (regardless of plans for it)?
- Like keyboard only? That's where we're hoping to head now that we're emerging into the quality of life phase slowly after the arena patch. I think there are things that are hard about it, but if some kind of focused element can be made to live in the menus that should get us a lot of the way there. Hotkeys alone won't do it. Of course this means you'll be back to pressing keys 50 times to do simple things, but I think maybe that's just how things would be.
Is there a technical or design reason why a tomb zone can not support multiple coffins? (each coffin must be its' own zone)Because dwarves claim zones right now, not furniture. It's exactly the same system as bedrooms and offices.
I was considering adding a 'catacomb' style zone that works like a dormitory for the dead. Have to tweak coffin 'ownership' a bit to make it work. (I don't remember if it technically counts as catacombs if the bodies aren't in the open rather than enclosed in individual caskets. We'd still be using individual caskets here, just no doors.)
Would it be possible to use letters as a backup for creature/item graphics if there's no graphical tile for it? Similar to what CDDA does.Suggestions forum is where you want to be. The game currently already has default graphics for when there isn't one available. So what's a better alternative? Just a random tiny letter thrown into the graphical environment would be lost immediately. Debug guy is far more visible. So, do you make a new tileset of graphics that look like the letters A-Z? But then do you want to differentiate creatures from items? In which case several new tilesets..
Would it be possible to use letters as a backup for creature/item graphics if there's no graphical tile for it? Similar to what CDDA does.This has also already been answered:
Quote from: Urist McSadist1.Right now modded creatures without textures show up as the debug creature, which can be annoying. Will this get changed?
Ziusudra: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8433121#msg8433121
Mr Crabman: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8433168#msg8433168
Shonai_Dweller: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8433262#msg8433262
Mr Crabman: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8433380#msg8433380
Urist McSadist (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8433714#msg8433714
1. It's possible to have options I suppose, but I don't want ASCII generally to show up in the graphical release without opt-in. It would be more confusing.
If the creature raws still define a character for things it would make sense to fall back to an image of that character (basically the tile set image used by the Classic version) if the currently selected tile set (which might not be an official one) doesn't contain the character. I also have third party tool usage of character images in mind (where character tiles from the character tile set would be addressed directly).What about a hat, like..a chef's hat. Bet you could fit a small, visible letter on there. :D
While having the debug creature wear a T-shirt with a character on it would be cool for creatures, I suspect the available number of pixels won't be sufficient to actually depict legible characters in many cases.
Much obliged.Is there a technical or design reason why a tomb zone can not support multiple coffins? (each coffin must be its' own zone)Because dwarves claim zones right now, not furniture. It's exactly the same system as bedrooms and offices.
You'd need to make a new system for tombs which allowed claimable furniture to work the way you want it to.
(Not that it wouldn't be a good idea, and there are several suggestions threads asking for it already).
Also eventual plans for a catacombs zone were mentioned in an earlier fotf:QuoteI was considering adding a 'catacomb' style zone that works like a dormitory for the dead. Have to tweak coffin 'ownership' a bit to make it work. (I don't remember if it technically counts as catacombs if the bodies aren't in the open rather than enclosed in individual caskets. We'd still be using individual caskets here, just no doors.)
I've personally updated a lot of stuff to use C++11 and on lately, it wasn't that much of an undertaking. Why, I even have a bit of code (don't expect to see it in production for a looong time) that uses concepts!
Where did the idea come from to call insect blood "ichor", rather than simply calling it "hemolymph"? And what edition of DF did insect blood start being referred to as ichor?I've been playing for 10 years and it's been called ichor the whole time. I can't speak of anything before that.
I can't find any descriptions of insect blood being called ichor prior to 2012, and outside of DF for that matter.
Does Bay12 call dibs on the copyright? Or does it abstain from making such a claim?
Theres an interview with some comic book artist, in which a claim is made concerning their appropriation of the word "ichor," which is what the insect people in the comic call their own blood, as hemolymph sounded too formal for the writer/artist. The comic book was published back in 2018, but I'm dead certain DF has that beat by at least 6 years.
Doesn't ichor date back to the Greeks? Seems a bit of a stretch for someone to try and copywrite it.
Where did the idea come from to call insect blood "ichor", rather than simply calling it "hemolymph"? And what edition of DF did insect blood start being referred to as ichor?2010 DF calls insect blood Ichor in the raws.
I can't find any descriptions of insect blood being called ichor prior to 2012 and outside of DF.
Also will all beings created by the gods look the same from world to world or will they look different.In his Mythgen videos Toady talks about procedurally generated races, including sliders where you can decide how "fantasy" you want your world to be (with the lowest being all-human worlds, the highest as all-procgen and Tolkien-esque in the middle somewhere).
Also will all beings created by the gods look the same from world to world or will they look different.In his Mythgen videos Toady talks about procedurally generated races, including sliders where you can decide how "fantasy" you want your world to be (with the lowest being all-human worlds, the highest as all-procgen and Tolkien-esque in the middle somewhere).
Or do you mean, goblins looking different from one another?
Ah, yes interesting. I seem to recall asking about that a long, long time ago. Will see if I can dig up the replay at the time (answer may have changed of course).Also will all beings created by the gods look the same from world to world or will they look different.In his Mythgen videos Toady talks about procedurally generated races, including sliders where you can decide how "fantasy" you want your world to be (with the lowest being all-human worlds, the highest as all-procgen and Tolkien-esque in the middle somewhere).
Or do you mean, goblins looking different from one another?
Im asking if a dragon or elf or goblin etc. will look exactly the same from world to world after the Myth update. Or will they look different. Cause I dont know about the community but fighting a flying dragon literally bigger than the mountain your fort is in would be awesome. And Dragons can come in all shapes and sizes. Elves and most other fantasy races too.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd-amulets-of-saegkkal/images/f/f2/Zhengyi-wang-composition5-9-copy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191212143124 (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd-amulets-of-saegkkal/images/f/f2/Zhengyi-wang-composition5-9-copy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191212143124)
When mythgen is complete will the civilizations be limited to Dwarf, Elf, Human, Goblin, Random Monstrosity (depending on your 'random' setting) or are you looking into having it throw out existing races as civs too (gnome, minotaur, gorlak, mountain goat, etc)?
With the upcoming (probably in the far future, but even so) generalization of fantasy races into a system where you can be toward the realistic (just humans) or toward the totally fantastic (naught but procedurally generated creatures), will at some point the stock races also see some more variability? Currently (for example) goblins are rather evil and elves are immortal cannibals; this is certainly not true in all fantasy. In Warcraft, goblins are a bit sneaky and rather capitalistic, but not necessarily evil or violent, and I don't think the LotR elves eat their own dead. Sometimes elves also just live longer lives rather than being fully immortal (to death by aging). Will such alternate possibilities at any point be included, and if so, how much, if any, player control do you envision over such things?
Sorry for multiple questions but will we will be able to make larger worlds? Like as in worlds so large they dwarf Earth since that has happened a few times in fiction albeit rarely. HunterXHunter and Toriko specifically had worlds so ridiculously big that the areas in which humans other sentients lived in amounted to a few small islands in middle of a lake. Not an inland ocean but a lake.
Sorry for multiple questions but will we will be able to make larger worlds? Like as in worlds so large they dwarf Earth since that has happened a few times in fiction albeit rarely. HunterXHunter and Toriko specifically had worlds so ridiculously big that the areas in which humans other sentients lived in amounted to a few small islands in middle of a lake. Not an inland ocean but a lake.
I believe there is a computational issue to making the worlds too large, without making them largely empty. You see this already with a large world (as in the setting "large") which slows down quite a bit compared to a pocket world, as they have to compute everything happening outside of your fort, even if that simulation is lower fidelity. Large worlds are iirc somewhere around the size of New Zealand, so you could see how going to truly Earth-sized worlds and beyond pose an issue... as long as they have things going on in them. Toady has mentioned the possibility of infinite (!) realms, so arbitrarily large wilderness areas might not be too far out.
Hmm. I don't see much slow down, if any, in playing on larger worlds. Much longer save/load times, sure. But actually during a game it starts off at the same speed as an embark in any other world, and slows down around the same time when the fortress becomes complex. There was an issue once with off-site births, but that was solved.Sorry for multiple questions but will we will be able to make larger worlds? Like as in worlds so large they dwarf Earth since that has happened a few times in fiction albeit rarely. HunterXHunter and Toriko specifically had worlds so ridiculously big that the areas in which humans other sentients lived in amounted to a few small islands in middle of a lake. Not an inland ocean but a lake.
I believe there is a computational issue to making the worlds too large, without making them largely empty. You see this already with a large world (as in the setting "large") which slows down quite a bit compared to a pocket world, as they have to compute everything happening outside of your fort, even if that simulation is lower fidelity. Large worlds are iirc somewhere around the size of New Zealand, so you could see how going to truly Earth-sized worlds and beyond pose an issue... as long as they have things going on in them. Toady has mentioned the possibility of infinite (!) realms, so arbitrarily large wilderness areas might not be too far out.
Only historical figures have information about their parents, and even in that case, this information may be missing because the parent(s) isn't itself a historical figure.
...
However, a historical figure has to be generated with some genes, so I would assume some kind of algorithm is used to generate the genes based on some pool (which presumably would be the genes of those 20 individuals), rather than actually generating a family tree for however many generations have passed since the start of time. The difference would be that a first generation hist fig might somehow get genes from more than two of the founders (but was the civ really founded in year 1, or was it just recorded at that time?).
That's honestly incredible.
In the event that this 'feature' isn't intentional, can we keep it?
Evidently, when an artifact is either created or named out in the rain, even if the precipitation happens to be some kind of freakish weather, the artifact is liable to be permanently covered in whatever its reagents or pre-artifact item was coated in.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For my money, this is freakin' sweet!
I suppose only if it were raining poison on the artifact creator.If you managed to grab a poisoned coated dagger from a kobold and then name it, I guess the poison would last forever.
I suppose only if it were raining poison on the artifact creator.
- What news of new music & graphics for premium?
- Are friendly Necromancer Experiments supposed to be so common? I rarely see them invade, but a whole bunch show up at every Fort as scholars and visitors.
- The caverns still regularly see multiple hundreds of invaders pile up, regardless of caps. Is this strictly a difficulty setting, or something that needs further adjustment?
- Is the lack of caravans from your home civ after becoming the Mountainhome intentional?
Would it be possible to use letters as a backup for creature/item graphics if there's no graphical tile for it? Similar to what CDDA does.
No doubt Steam graphics will be reused in Adventure mode. But, is there still much to be done in the graphic section for this mode by artists?
And in the sound section, can we finally enjoy a soundtrack in Adventure mode?
I am curious about the overall development of Dwarf Fortress. You on occasion mention upgrading the compiler, using visual studio 20XX and the like. As a programmer I wanted to ask, what automated tools do you use to help keep the code healthy and stop bugs before they begin? Examples being clang-tidy, gtest, or GSL (from microsoft). On the same vein, have you updated any parts of the code recently to use more modern patterns from C++11/14/17/20 I know that this is a relatively large project and started long ago so I imagine some things like unique_ptr/optional are not heavily used.
With the "baby update" either already being out by the time this is answered, or coming soon, are there any plans to go into the raws and give some creatures the CHILD token/child stages? Or is there some thematic meaning behind certain creatures being locked out of domestication due to being born as adults? The giant variants of animals which should metamorphose is understandable, since it'd presumably take a body rewrite to get proper giant cave tadpoles, and giant flea tadpoles. There is an argument for dragons too, since they are an ultimate beast of sorts. But crundles are less obvious.
Where did the idea come from to call insect blood "ichor", rather than simply calling it "hemolymph"? And what edition of DF did insect blood start being referred to as ichor?
I can't find any descriptions of insect blood being called ichor prior to 2012 and outside of DF.
Are there any plans for fixing/improving the ASCII UI? Right now it looks like the graphical UI copied one-to-one, which doesn't really work (for example, the magnifying glass icon in the workshop menu makes zero sense in ASCII, a simple capital D for "Details" would work a hundred times better - and the list goes on and on).
Im not sure this has ever been brought up but with the Myth and Magic release coming soonish will the gods and magic system allow for more varied, developed and complex megabeasts? Better yet will we get sentient races of megabeasts and/or primordial god-like beings that wander the world and create vague civilizations of their own? Also will all beings created by the gods look the same from world to world or will they look different.
Sorry for multiple questions but will we will be able to make larger worlds? Like as in worlds so large they dwarf Earth since that has happened a few times in fiction albeit rarely. HunterXHunter and Toriko specifically had worlds so ridiculously big that the areas in which humans other sentients lived in amounted to a few small islands in middle of a lake. Not an inland ocean but a lake.
This may be an unnecessary throwback to a now defunct mechanic, and I may have misinterpreted what was said (as tends to happen), but I've been listening to old DF Talk recordings:
In DF Talk 4 you mention that when placing civilisations you begin with 20 individuals to ensure genetic diversity and also limit incestuous couplings.
Does this mean that the family trees of all (non-historical) individuals is tracked through world generation, and a family tree could theoretically be drawn between a descendant and two of the founding 20?
It was always an assumption of mine that population numbers and growth was simulated through some sort of equation.
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This is the part I'm interested in, really. At the risk of having asked too many questions:
What determines what genes an individual can have? Is there a single gene pool available for members of a civilisation, or many? Or are gene pools more granular and differ based on site/ other entities?
In the event that this 'feature' isn't intentional, can we keep it?
Evidently, when an artifact is either created or named out in the rain, even if the precipitation happens to be some kind of freakish weather, the artifact is liable to be permanently covered in whatever its reagents or pre-artifact item was coated in.
In the Villains release, if, as an Adventurer, I manage to become a notorious villain, with a wide crime network, will the game be robust enough for me to retire and try to hunt down myself with a new character? Will the "clues" that should lead me to the villain I made exist?
After the Magic Update, will there be the possibility of superhero style worlds where each caster has unique powers?
What do you think will be the hardest part of adventure mode to port to the Steam release?
We're currently giving some attention to aboveground plants which are much more visible in adventure mode (but this will also impact aboveground fort farms of course.)
Thanks for the answers!My impression is that the answer refers to graphics rather than functionality. A farming overhaul is probably way too much work to fit into something else (in this case Adventure Mode adaptation to new UI and graphics, with some minor general improvements/additions). I assume Toady will answer the question in a month, though.We're currently giving some attention to aboveground plants which are much more visible in adventure mode (but this will also impact aboveground fort farms of course.)
Any specific plans for this already? Like, will the whole plants and not just growths be gatherable, will seasons come into play and will it be changed how much you can gather from one plant tile (since now you can just pick vast amounts)? And/or will there be new uses for plants?
Is there a possibility of getting starting scenarios or human/elf/goblin "forts" before the map rewrite? How much have you thought about this and how much might these be differentiated from dwarf mode? These can be modded in fairly easily but it's just dwarf mode in a fancy hat; is properly intergrating non-dwarf forts "low-hanging fruit" or do you intend to modify the gameplay enough that it's a bigger job?
My impression is that the answer refers to graphics rather than functionality. A farming overhaul is probably way too much work to fit into something else (in this case Adventure Mode adaptation to new UI and graphics, with some minor general improvements/additions). I assume Toady will answer the question in a month, though.We're currently giving some attention to aboveground plants which are much more visible in adventure mode (but this will also impact aboveground fort farms of course.)
Any specific plans for this already? Like, will the whole plants and not just growths be gatherable, will seasons come into play and will it be changed how much you can gather from one plant tile (since now you can just pick vast amounts)? And/or will there be new uses for plants?
Is there a possibility of getting starting scenarios or human/elf/goblin "forts" before the map rewrite? How much have you thought about this and how much might these be differentiated from dwarf mode? These can be modded in fairly easily but it's just dwarf mode in a fancy hat; is properly intergrating non-dwarf forts "low-hanging fruit" or do you intend to modify the gameplay enough that it's a bigger job?The "low hanging fruit" version of non dwarf fortresses is the modding that's currently possible, and, as mentioned, it's rather unsatisfactory. I don't agree with @Voliol, though, as non dwarven forts ought to appear in the Myth & Magic arc. As that arc intends to support mundane worlds (i.e. no dwarves), it has to support human fortresses at the very minimum, and it also has to support any playable race generated by more extreme settings. At that point, it's a fairly small step to require it to support any civilization capable race (not that multi race support is small, but the step from supporting all generated "primary" races with all their variations, to supporting "secondary" ones as well is probably small, and at that point the distinction disappears: any generated civ building race would be available for starting race selection).
To add to the replies, there's also that concept of the constrained dragon generator I've mentioned from time to time, and that applies to things like elves too, where there are lots of concepts that get mixed up, producing something 'elf'-like for a given setting. And there's the 'editor' style constraints, and the myth-imposed constraints. Once we have frameworks like that in place, we should be in a good position. We want to be able to build up raw definitions in various ways, with various stakeholders in the outcome - this seems possible anyway ha ha.
Yeah there are technical issues, some parts of the game are slower, from army pathfinding to save/load from the raw size of them. Map rewrite should get us some concepts of infinite worlds, but there's a trade-off since the information can't all be stored, it doesn't solve pathing on its own, and nothing gets around the fundamental problems of procedural emptiness and repetition except for the hard work of adding variety.
Is it intentional for the elves to count cavern trees as their own, or is it a bug?
Is it intentional for the elves to count cavern trees as their own, or is it a bug?
As far as anyone is aware it continues to be a feature.
https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2932
Reported on Mantis in 2010, with tags Intentional/Expected?
I understand you have very little way of knowing but do you believe myth and magic will release this decade? Simply curious.
I understand you have very little way of knowing but do you believe myth and magic will release this decade? Simply curious.We have a whole thread on guessing when the myth and magic release will come. That's full of people who have no way of knowing. :)
Any hope that export legends functionality will be added to Steam version?The convention used on the forum is to mark questions to Toady in Lime Green to make it easy for him to find the questions when it's time to answer them (you can update your post to do that, rather than add a redundant post).
Adventure mode is going to need a whole rpg-style soundscape. We're seeking an audio engineer for example for this reason. ]Music is also a current discussion. It should be pretty exciting overall! And we'll see what comes back to fort mode as well, since sounds (not music) got the short end of the stick there.
Would you consider implementing powder physics? I feel that Dwarf Fortress is known for it's simulation systems, but a lot of what is going on is not obvious. Physics simulations however are a very upfront way to reveal complexity, and they can be amazing fun. I consider the water physics to be one of the strongest features of the game, and I'm wondering what your thoughts on sand physics are because I feel this is a core building block of a sandbox environment.
Any hope that export legends functionality will be added to Steam version?
In DF Talk #28, you brought up "[adjective] dwarves" as a creature variant originating from mythgen.
The example of cloud dwarves and cloud dragons is a strong example of a shared spherical association. There's a pretty strong cultural background of what a creature associated with the sphere of SKY would be. Power of flight (either innate or as a spell), tissue layers could be given air-themed colors like sky blue or clear, any other interactions they can access would typically be either centered in the sphere of SKY or allowed to trickle in from related spheres.
1. This seems like a question of making the data structure for creature/object variations robust enough to have spherical and arbitrary tagging. Will we see the raw-defined creature variation object be expanded to serve the purpose of directed randomness in this way?
Like the idea of a single variation comprising [CE_ADD_TAG:CAN_SPEAK] + [CE_ADD_TAG:SKILL_LEARN_RATES:SPEAKING:200] given the sphere of SPEECH, when a creature is speciated to fit the magics of the speech domain. Likewise, different "dragon" abilities and bodies could be stored in the creature variation file with the creature definition calling those in a way that the world options can briefly look at the creature files to make buttons for.
2. Will we see the concept of a religious sphere also become opened up to modding? I know sub-domains of ANIMALS was talked about, but the idea of adding new spheres seems like something modders could do easily if the data structure was editable. The god descriptions and language symbols, and a new substructure for putting together creature variants.
Some way to discriminate variant generation by creature tags, that way we don't get redundant silliness like "talking dwarves" and "dark goblins" that describe what they already do. "Bardic dwarves" sounds more apt for an already-speaking creature and is more a flavor matter, but unless the concept of a goblin in DF is reworked to not always originate from dark pits there's not really any meaningful separation between a dark goblin and a banally evil regular goblin. Likewise, you'd need elves that don't live in forests for "wood elf" to be a meaningful discriminator, etc.
3. I'm also interested in the "humans, and one to two other things" scenario because it means either original entities or some sort of defined structure to elevate certain types of creatures. There are a couple of non-civilized mythical creatures in the game, and there's different attributes that would be expected of them. Satyrs love music and parties, gnomes can go in both really dwarfy (the tinker archetype) and really elfy (mushroom houses/"underground wood forest retreat") directions with that Paracelsian link to earth, and animal people should at least pay lip service to their ecological niche (diet and biome primarily). Gorlaks are described as good, so it'd be unusual having them originate a cruel and selfish civilization.
We also can sorta expect what a spherical variant of an entity would look like. Dark elves, if they're more broadly embodying the concept of evil rather than benign non-illumination, would behave in a certain general way. We'd expect them to dwell in cavern layers and dark pits, use evil words in their names, enjoy cruelty and hostility, just basically follow the goblin blueprint. Not all entity changes are created equal, as I'd imagine fire dwarves might be more passionate and prefer settling in warm biomes, but the subspecies is similar enough to integrate with the mountainhome unless there's a cultural rift with ice dwarves.
4. Fully procedural creatures, to me, seem like they'd benefit from a lot of the same variety that humans would, interestingly enough. I guess you'd need as much information you can in generating their entity definition, and without editing something that exists you'd need the spheres and the creation myth to really guide what it starts as. I guess even single entity tokens could be contextualized in the mythgen "such and such god revealed to this race the secret of brewing" and that would add the brewer job and the brewing reactions
Having such a huge list of associations is an argument against opening up the spheres, but would it be an extensible dev foundation to use object variations (in the specific technical sense we have now) as a way of grouping entity tokens mythologically? Not moving the entire entity def to applying variations, because that just reinvents tags, but things like making the various alloys is something that wants to be grouped. I don't want to learn about how the dwarves learned to make rose gold twice just because there's two separate reactions for it, it makes more sense that civs would learn about alloying metals as a whole
Doesn't ichor date back to the Greeks? Seems a bit of a stretch for someone to try and copywrite it.
The word does, but not the definition of it being applied by DF.
Ichor was the blood of the gods of mount Olympus. And as far as I am aware, the word ichor was not historically used in referring to mosquito and ant men blood. ...
will boats and other vehicles be modular and customizable objects that the player can construct block-by-block
Will the society system affect individual creature morals?
I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.
After watching your interview with blind, do you mind elaborating a little more on how we are going to deal with assigning ammo to squads of marksdwarves?You'll want to move that [ / color ] tag to the end of your text to make it correctly Lime Green.
Also is there any chance of marksdwarves using melee weapons that they are given as a backup? I.E if an enemy manages to reach my marksdwarves, but they have a hammer, would you want them to use the hammer, or would you want them to be ranged only troops vulnerable in melee.[/colour]
I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.There are a few reasons for why restoration of keyboard control won't use the same key bindings:
I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.There are a few reasons for why restoration of keyboard control won't use the same key bindings:
- The keyboard controls were very inconsistent (a number of different schemes for what was essentially the same control action used in different places), and that's rather messy for newcomers and not great overall.
- Functionality has been shifted around, so some new functionality isn't really the same as any of the old ones. Binding the old key to to something that's sort of the closest to an old usage isn't exactly great.
- When restoring keyboard control (it was intended to be almost entirely scrapped last summer) for a new audience provides an opportunity to not only consolidate "the same" actions to use the same keys throughout, but also to reshuffle keys bindings to keys that make more overall sense currently, rather than using whatever free key that sort of could be connected to some new functionality when that was added.
Will it be a pain to relearn keys? Yes.
Will it result in usage of muscle memory that's no longer correct for years to come? Yes.
Will it be better in the long run even for dinosaurs like me? Yes, unless the ability to form new memories have failed, in which case the game will probably be unplayable anyway.
I think it will be possible to change the key bindings, but I suspect it won't be worth the effort unless you need to because your (non US) keyboard doesn't provide a reasonable access to some keys (like everything that's used to "build" composite characters out of a modifier and a base character, like e.g. î on mine, where the circumflex isn't printable with a single key press, at least with normal keyboard processing routines).
Once keyboard support has been restored, assuming key rebinding is supported, it might be possible for interested parties to come up with a way to create a "classic" key rebinding tool that recreated the old bindings as much as possible. However, it might be tricky to change UI movement keys "back" if it isn't possible to bind the "same" function to different keys in different contexts.
I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.There are a few reasons for why restoration of keyboard control won't use the same key bindings:
- The keyboard controls were very inconsistent (a number of different schemes for what was essentially the same control action used in different places), and that's rather messy for newcomers and not great overall.
- Functionality has been shifted around, so some new functionality isn't really the same as any of the old ones. Binding the old key to to something that's sort of the closest to an old usage isn't exactly great.
- When restoring keyboard control (it was intended to be almost entirely scrapped last summer) for a new audience provides an opportunity to not only consolidate "the same" actions to use the same keys throughout, but also to reshuffle keys bindings to keys that make more overall sense currently, rather than using whatever free key that sort of could be connected to some new functionality when that was added.
Will it be a pain to relearn keys? Yes.
Will it result in usage of muscle memory that's no longer correct for years to come? Yes.
Will it be better in the long run even for dinosaurs like me? Yes, unless the ability to form new memories have failed, in which case the game will probably be unplayable anyway.
I think it will be possible to change the key bindings, but I suspect it won't be worth the effort unless you need to because your (non US) keyboard doesn't provide a reasonable access to some keys (like everything that's used to "build" composite characters out of a modifier and a base character, like e.g. î on mine, where the circumflex isn't printable with a single key press, at least with normal keyboard processing routines).
I appreciate the reply, I understand the reason for the changes. I'd still like a classic mode, though, and would like to hear from toady specifically. Until then, I'll be using old versions. I COULD probably manage on a version that didn't need the mouse.
Also, you didn't really need to make the quip about memory. It's rude, and some folks do have memory issues.
In addition requesting a classic control schema doesn't take anything from the game, though it DOES require dev time, which I understand. I'd like to think the added utility to what had been an ascii, keyboard based game for over a decade would be nice, bring folks into the newer versions, and keep the spirit of the original around for a while longer.
I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.There are a few reasons for why restoration of keyboard control won't use the same key bindings:
- The keyboard controls were very inconsistent (a number of different schemes for what was essentially the same control action used in different places), and that's rather messy for newcomers and not great overall.
- Functionality has been shifted around, so some new functionality isn't really the same as any of the old ones. Binding the old key to to something that's sort of the closest to an old usage isn't exactly great.
- When restoring keyboard control (it was intended to be almost entirely scrapped last summer) for a new audience provides an opportunity to not only consolidate "the same" actions to use the same keys throughout, but also to reshuffle keys bindings to keys that make more overall sense currently, rather than using whatever free key that sort of could be connected to some new functionality when that was added.
Will it be a pain to relearn keys? Yes.
Will it result in usage of muscle memory that's no longer correct for years to come? Yes.
Will it be better in the long run even for dinosaurs like me? Yes, unless the ability to form new memories have failed, in which case the game will probably be unplayable anyway.
I think it will be possible to change the key bindings, but I suspect it won't be worth the effort unless you need to because your (non US) keyboard doesn't provide a reasonable access to some keys (like everything that's used to "build" composite characters out of a modifier and a base character, like e.g. î on mine, where the circumflex isn't printable with a single key press, at least with normal keyboard processing routines).
I appreciate the reply, I understand the reason for the changes. I'd still like a classic mode, though, and would like to hear from toady specifically. Until then, I'll be using old versions. I COULD probably manage on a version that didn't need the mouse.
Also, you didn't really need to make the quip about memory. It's rude, and some folks do have memory issues.
In addition requesting a classic control schema doesn't take anything from the game, though it DOES require dev time, which I understand. I'd like to think the added utility to what had been an ascii, keyboard based game for over a decade would be nice, bring folks into the newer versions, and keep the spirit of the original around for a while longer.
It's been gone over quite a lot in various places: no, there won't be a classic mode, maintaining two completely independent UIs for the game at the same time is not feasible. To say it doesn't take anything away ignores just how much goes into keeping something like that up.
Interesting to say it's not feasible.I suppose what you mean by feasible, is possible? Many things are possible, in that they can be done. But feasible implies that it is also easy and convenient to do. Ensuring that new features work in 2 entirely different user interfaces sounds to me like a good deal more work than just a single user interface; which I believe is what makes it not easy or convenient to maintain (ie. not feasible).
Interesting to say it's not feasible.I suppose what you mean by feasible, is possible? Many things are possible, in that they can be done. But feasible implies that it is also easy and convenient to do. Ensuring that new features work in 2 entirely different user interfaces sounds to me like a good deal more work than just a single user interface; which I believe is what makes it not easy or convenient to maintain (ie. not feasible).
One day, there may be a mod that re-creates the old UI however.
Well, I did acknowledge that it takes dev time and resources. Interesting to say it's not feasible. Do you work on the game? Do you have a source for it not being worked on? I've seen otherwise from a few secondhand folks, which is why I'm attempting to go to the horses (toads) mouth.
*Edit: I see now that you are the other primary dev on the project, can I assume that the "No" is official and I can just contentedly remain on .47?
Well, I did acknowledge that it takes dev time and resources. Interesting to say it's not feasible. Do you work on the game? Do you have a source for it not being worked on? I've seen otherwise from a few secondhand folks, which is why I'm attempting to go to the horses (toads) mouth.
*Edit: I see now that you are the other primary dev on the project, can I assume that the "No" is official and I can just contentedly remain on .47?
That was funny.
Any specific plans for [aboveground plants] already? Like, will the whole plants and not just growths be gatherable, will seasons come into play and will it be changed how much you can gather from one plant tile (since now you can just pick vast amounts)? And/or will there be new uses for plants?
Is there a possibility of getting starting scenarios or human/elf/goblin "forts" before the map rewrite? How much have you thought about this and how much might these be differentiated from dwarf mode? These can be modded in fairly easily but it's just dwarf mode in a fancy hat; is properly intergrating non-dwarf forts "low-hanging fruit" or do you intend to modify the gameplay enough that it's a bigger job?
In the last FotF reply you mentioned above ground plant graphics getting some love. These questions possibly relate.
As things stand grasses can have their growths (flowers and buds) displayed as a layer above the base tiles. This does not work for other plants from what I can tell?
Spoiler: examples (click to show/hide)
Strawberries do kind of have their growth displayed, but in an unusual way. They have two sprites, one with and one without the fruit. Using SHRUB_PICKED for the sprite to use when it has no strawberries. Before they have the growth they are using SHRUB_PICKED, once grown SHRUB. Gathering destroys the plant so SHRUB_PICKED is never actually used for the picked plant.
Spoiler: example (click to show/hide)
My first question is whether you plan to allow us to specify graphics for each individual growth as with grass? This is preferable in my opinion as it allows for plants with multiple harvestable growths to display correctly and for plants to flower or display other growths independently. I had assumed this was the case having seen grass, but the way strawberries have been handled makes me wonder.
My second question is whether you intend to implement graphics for dead plants as in the text mode? As things stand you can't tell without mousing over them. It's annoying when designating individual plants for gathering.
Third is the same, but for specifying graphics for dry and dead grass?
Out of all (of) the story's from the community, which one is your(Your?) favorite?
Is it intentional for the elves to count cavern trees as their own, or is it a bug?
Hmm. Would it be possible to cheat and use the constrained Dragon/Elf/etc. generators you mentioned to do the bulk of the work then going in to add the finishing touches to it? Like for example say you had a constrained Giant generator which produces a giant of some description. You could then just take that data and refurbish a little, giving it keywords like can build civilizations, cast magic etc. then plop it somewhere in the arbitrarily large wilderness.
Additionally, couldnt we also have the gods be the generators of Variety? In-game they could be filling up the procedural emptiness with creations/magics/landforms etc. during the Age of Myths. Shouldnt be a problem with technical issues as the game wont keep track of it, just notes that something happened there.
Additionally additionally, would it be possible to code in an in-game file compressor to hold all that data?
Couple of questions about the difficulty settings:
What exactly does the "Vampire Migrant Fraction" do? I can assume it prevents vampires from coming to your fortress, but where does it factor in and how many more vampires do you get at the minimum setting of 1 in comparison to the default setting of 100?
Which of the economic/landholder triggers are needed for the monarch's arrival? Or is that a completely independent threshold?
I think you've implied this before, but just to confirm: Are all three of "Forgotten Beast Sensitivity", "Forgotten Beast Irritation Minimum", and "Forgotten Beast Wealth Divisor" also being used to control the rate of Cavern Dweller invasions?
What are your present thoughts on programming Dwarf Fortress using AI assistance like GitHub Copilot?
I understand you have very little way of knowing but do you believe myth and magic will release this decade? Simply curious.
The current non-layered graphics definitions seem to be a very cut down version of what we had with graphics sets. The main addition being caste specific graphics.
Do you plan to bring back a similar level of flexibility that has been lost in the move to premium. Specifically:
a) the ability to set graphics for individual professions. Layered conditions only include broad categories that don't even contain a bunch of professions such as doctors, bards, mercenaries, nobles.
b) the ability to set graphics for the different soldier types: recruit, swordsman, elite swordsman etc. This can be somewhat achieved using layers and item wielded conditions, but not for wrestlers or the elites.
c) same, but for some of the stranger ones: ghosts, prisoners, slaves, adventurers etc.
Any hope that export legends functionality will be added to Steam version?
Emphasis mine… Has the notion of, I suppose: ‘procedural asset reuse’ (that is, apropos musical forms from any given worldgen) been brought up at all yet in that discussion? (Not that I have any involvement, but; Ad hoc orchestral composition example: tracks 1 and 5 are irrelevant, furthermore I'm told it is, or was, a rough draft: https://soundcloud.com/musicmastermsh/sets/songs-of-zavazsil)
In DF Talk #28, Toady brought up "[adjective] dwarves" as a creature variant originating from mythgen.
The example of cloud dwarves and cloud dragons is a strong example of a shared spherical association. There's a pretty strong cultural background of what a creature associated with the sphere of SKY would be. Power of flight (either innate or as a spell), tissue layers could be given air-themed colors like sky blue or clear, any other interactions they can access would typically be either centered in the sphere of SKY or allowed to trickle in from related spheres.
1. "Cloud dwarves" seems like a question of making the data structure for creature/object variations robust enough to have spherical and arbitrary tagging. Will we see the raw-defined creature variation object be expanded to serve the purpose of mythically-directed randomness in this way?
Like the idea of a single variation comprising [CE_ADD_TAG:CAN_SPEAK] + [CE_ADD_TAG:SKILL_LEARN_RATES:SPEAKING:200] given the sphere of SPEECH, when a creature is speciated to fit the magics of the speech domain. Likewise, different "dragon" abilities and bodies could be stored in the creature variation file with the creature definition calling those, in a way that the world options can briefly look at the creature files to make buttons for.
Perhaps some way to discriminate variant generation by creature tags, that way we don't get redundant silliness like "talking dwarves" and "dark goblins" that describe what they already do. "Bardic dwarves" sounds more apt for an already-speaking creature and is more a flavor matter, but unless the concept of a goblin in DF is reworked to not always originate from dark pits there's not really any meaningful separation between a dark goblin and a banally evil regular goblin. Likewise, you'd need elves that don't live in forests for "wood elf" to be a meaningful discriminator, etc.
2. Will we see the entire concept of a religious sphere also become opened up to modding?
I know sub-domains of ANIMALS was talked about, but the idea of adding new spheres seems like something modders could do easily if the data structure was editable. The god descriptions and language symbols, and hooks in the code to link them with forces and spherical variants.
3. I'm interested in the "humans, and one to two other things" scenario because it means worldgen-relevant procedural entities to elevate certain types of creatures. There are plenty of intelligent creatures already with well-defined associations, how might that be reflected when the game gets around to generating an entity definition for them?
Satyrs love music and parties, gnomes can go in both really dwarfy (the tinker archetype) and really elfy (mushroom houses/"underground wood forest retreat") directions with that Paracelsian link to earth, and animal people should at least pay lip service to their ecological niche (diet and biome primarily). Gorlaks are described as good, so it'd be unusual having them originate a cruel and selfish civilization.
We also can sorta expect spherical associations to loop back around from flavoring original entities to modifying vanilla ones in the same way. Dark elves, if they're more broadly embodying the concept of evil rather than benign non-illumination, would behave in a certain general way. We'd expect them to dwell in cavern layers and dark pits, use evil words in their names, enjoy cruelty and hostility, just basically follow the goblin blueprint. Not all entity changes are created equal, as I'd imagine fire dwarves might be more passionate and prefer settling in warm biomes, but the subspecies is similar enough to integrate with the mountainhome unless there's a cultural rift with ice dwarves.
Would you consider implementing powder physics? I feel that Dwarf Fortress is known for it's simulation systems, but a lot of what is going on is not obvious. Physics simulations however are a very upfront way to reveal complexity, and they can be amazing fun. I consider the water physics to be one of the strongest features of the game, and I'm wondering what your thoughts on sand physics are because I feel this is a core building block of a sandbox environment.
On the development page and in some DF talks, you've mentioned that you're planning to add ships and other moving fortress parts to the game. My question is: will boats and other vehicles be modular and customizable objects that the player can construct block-by-block, or rather fixed structures, that are simply big blueprints the player adds resources to until the desired building is finished (like the trade depot, for example)?
You've also mentioned that you have plans to implement a society system into the game that reworks justice, economics, and culture. Will the society system affect individual creature morals? For example, it is currently impossible for dwarfs to butcher sentient beings. Could a civilization of cannibalistic dwarfs that get mood buffs from doing the currently forbidden things be generated? Will these systems be flexible, or stay the same for the sake of preventing the possibility bad PR (from what I've read, the mermaid thing could be considered an example of this)?
After watching your interview with blind, do you mind elaborating a little more on how we are going to deal with assigning ammo to squads of marksdwarves?
Also is there any chance of marksdwarves using melee weapons that they are given as a backup? I.E if an enemy manages to reach my marksdwarves, but they have a hammer, would you want them to use the hammer, or would you want them to be ranged only troops vulnerable in melee.
Quote from: cliff987I apologize if this has been asked, but will there be an option for legacy controls? I can't really play the new version. Too many years with the old. I know that's a me problem, but figured might as well throw my two bits in.Quote from: SchmavenDo you plan to add more keyboard control before or after the adventure mode update?
1.Are proper gladiatorial fights that don't make the watchers scared, and are actually entertaining for them a planned feature?
2.Just how in depth are you planning to make magic research?
How does progress look on supporting third party tilesets? I think it's been 90% finished since November, and just not yet gotten that final push?
Likewise, finishing up Classic "ascii" mode, zooming and so on.
Any estimate on when those will get some focus time?
For Myth & Magic, do you intend for 'vanilla' dwarves to be averse to wizardy type magic, and have preference for "magic" through feats of craftdwarfship, moods, use of magical materials and/or religious devotion?
Do you intend for some features of 'dwarfiness' to be purely cultural and others to be inherent to biology?
1. Is there any chance Steam Achievements are going to be added in the future?
2. Is the current way of activating mods (at the worldgen stage only) final? Will it be possible to load in mods to an already existing world?
2b. Are there plans to implement any additional sort of modding support, to further widen which parts of the game can be modded? (In example, I remember hearing somewhere that music modding is something that will be added in the future)
3. If new music gets added as part of future updates, will the Soundtrack DLC be updated to contain the new tracks, or will it be sold as a new DLC? (No complaints from me whichever way it would be done, I'd be happy to pay extra and support you and the artists :) )
3b. Would it be possible to update the OST DLC to include FLAC files as well? I know that you mentioned in the past that there was a discussion regarding this topic at some point.
4. I was thinking it would be nice if there would be an easy way to fiddle around with the token values. Would there be a chance that would some sort of in-game token editor that we could use to add/remove/edit tokens to creatures, plants, etc., if we'd like to customize things? Perhaps then the changes could be saved as presets and then loaded on a per-worldgen basis.
5. Do you like pineapple on pizza?
What are a couple reference materials you plan to use as inspiration for Myth and Magic?
Lately I've just been chopping up wikipedia since it's easy to get at digitally, and I expect it has some bias, but I've been trying to reach through cultures such as they exist there. I'm drawn to those huge numeric catalogs as well, but in practice I'm not sure I'll have much time to work from them. For non-real-world setups, I haven't been doing anything particularly new for this - just capturing some portion of the generic baseline is a large project.
Any May updates on when Mac ports might come out on Steam? (I'm very eager to try this game!)
Any May updates on when Mac ports might come out on Steam? (I'm very eager to try this game!)
I'm playing in mac using wineskin winery. It works pretty well. Here is a guide: https://re-actor.net/dwarf-fortress-how-to-run-the-game-on-mac/ (https://re-actor.net/dwarf-fortress-how-to-run-the-game-on-mac/)
> 50.08 notes: Allowed most water-based jobs that use buckets to use partially-filled water buckets in addition to empty buckets.
Which jobs can't use partially filled buckets?
I interpret that to mean that detection of any bucket using water based jobs that fail to use buckets partially filled with water are to be considered as bug report worthy.> 50.08 notes: Allowed most water-based jobs that use buckets to use partially-filled water buckets in addition to empty buckets.
Which jobs can't use partially filled buckets?
I could not tell you, for they will only fail to if I didn't find them
I’ll be holding out for a native 64-bit Linux version that supports SDL2 (mostly because the people in charge of my distribution have said that Hell will freeze over before they support the older versions of SDL…).
2. Given that personality tied magic is a common trope, there should be a possibility of it appearing eventually. I'm not sure I've seen personal values based ones (but certainly organizations/sects/... with magic and an expectation ranging from expectation up to demand on their values, but then we're basically back to normal sphere based magic).
1.Can we expect some adventure mode ai improvements after the update is out?
2.After the magic update, will there be the possibility of some people having powers based on their values and personalities?
3.Will we ever have procedural government systems?
Is it possible for one dwarf to affect the mood of another?
1) for example, perhaps a general who gets excited while in combat can cause others to become excited and spur them forward, while the same would be true if they are terrified and cause others to flea with them.
2) have you considered adding a counselling room?
where dwarfs who are upset will seek out help?
with the beauty of the room and skill of the counsellor causing a level of mood buff?
Quote from: VatticThe current non-layered graphics definitions seem to be a very cut down version of what we had with graphics sets. The main addition being caste specific graphics.
Do you plan to bring back a similar level of flexibility that has been lost in the move to premium. Specifically:
a) the ability to set graphics for individual professions. Layered conditions only include broad categories that don't even contain a bunch of professions such as doctors, bards, mercenaries, nobles.
b) the ability to set graphics for the different soldier types: recruit, swordsman, elite swordsman etc. This can be somewhat achieved using layers and item wielded conditions, but not for wrestlers or the elites.
c) same, but for some of the stranger ones: ghosts, prisoners, slaves, adventurers etc.
Does this not work? I didn't change the syntax. Where it says "ANIMATED" or "DEFAULT" in the creature graphics txt files, you should be able to put GHOST or etc. as well. It's still checking in the code for professions and types as well.
Humans, goblins, and a couple of minor entities already procedurally generate their government, they're tagged to do so. Human and goblin leaders can add various positions to their government - there's a couple of varying names and reasons why they add these positions. Right now every one of those civs generates leaders in the same manner: free humans get a nonspecific law-giver while [POWER] and [UNIQUE_DEMON] creatures become master, with lords that rule over sites and a couple of positions that are mostly relevant to villain plots atm.
3.Will we ever have procedural government systems?
Yes, it's true. The dwarves will build Mayan televisions.
Questions mean for Toady in this thread should be in lime green, but these read more like suggestions to me, apt for that board (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) instead.
Dwarves currently seek counseling/consoling from nobles and priests, and the quality of it depends on the dwarf giving it.
How do I access my preorder exclusive Giant-Robot cosmetic wagon skin? I saw some announcement about that.
How do I access my preorder exclusive Giant-Robot cosmetic wagon skin? I saw some announcement about that.
Log in to your FoxFriendsRewards!® program account and check your alerts, but Kitfox handled all that, not Bay 12 Games. You'll need to talk to them about any preorder bonus problems.This isn't even the dumbest question I've answered today. Fun is fun, but let's not make FotF miserable for Tarn. It's a precious resource for us all.
I interpret that to mean that detection of any bucket using water based jobs that fail to use buckets partially filled with water are to be considered as bug report worthy.> 50.08 notes: Allowed most water-based jobs that use buckets to use partially-filled water buckets in addition to empty buckets.
Which jobs can't use partially filled buckets?
I could not tell you, for they will only fail to if I didn't find them
Why can't I find the filter options for assigning units to zones (such as showing only grazing animals for pastures)?
1. What's left on the to do list before work porting adventure mode over to the steam version can begin? Adventure mode was always my favorite mode.
Are you satisfied with the way magma currently behaves? Were you ever interested in making it more realistic? For example, people can not sink into real magma, as it is roughly two to three times more dense than living tissue.
If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
I just wanna preface my question by saying that there are !!SPOILERS AHEAD!!. I haven't seen any forum guidelines regarding this sorta thing, but better safe than sorry! :D
[spoiler]spoiler stuff[/spoiler]
Do you have any plans for the underworld pre-magic, after which it will (presumably) be overhauled and left completely up to world generation? For example, adding something valuable there to make it worth venturing into? Or maybe creating underworld structures like fortresses/pits with cages and other evil contraptions of hellish depravityTM?
If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?The good tag just means they hang out in good biomes.
If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly. What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile. I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them. As opposed to say, normal visitors.
Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.
Do you have any plans for the underworld pre-magic, after which it will (presumably) be overhauled and left completely up to world generation? For example, adding something valuable there to make it worth venturing into? Or maybe creating underworld structures like fortresses/pits with cages and other evil contraptions of hellish depravityTM?
No longer in the game, but there used to be stuff in the older editions.
As of 47.05: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Demonic_fortress
In 0.34: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Demonic_fortress
--------
What is the EQUIPMENT creature flag used for?
I tested a summon unit interaction for creatures with the EQUIPMENT flag, and it ended up summoning a wagon. This is the same as summon interactions which only summon creatures with the EQUIPMENT_WAGON flag. I don't think these flags are redundant though.
edit: added question
Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly. What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile. I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them. As opposed to say, normal visitors.
Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.
Yeah. I guess you’re right about the tags. I still don’t understand why they don’t act like normal visitors, though. They are sapient, after all…
Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
Unicorns have a [GOOD] tag, and I would not describe them as particularly friendly. What you're likely more concerned about is their [BENIGN] tag, and why they're still listed as hostile. I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with ensuring that they set off traps, when they step on them. As opposed to say, normal visitors.
Edit: Trimmed the amount of text.
Yeah. I guess you’re right about the tags. I still don’t understand why they don’t act like normal visitors, though. They are sapient, after all…
Instead, it just indicates the association for other purposes. Like art pictures or preferences.
Stuff used to be sorted into normal evil and good biomes, it's a legacy tag from that era that does something else.
Going a little bit further, if I remember correctly, the tag is defunct for the purpose of what biome the creature 'should' reside in.
Instead, it just indicates the association for other purposes. Like art pictures or preferences.
Stuff used to be sorted into normal evil and good biomes, it's a legacy tag from that era that does something else.
The EQUIPMENT flag does most of the stuff involving making the creature unselectable as a pet, wild animal etc. required for wagons, except actually making it available as a wagon.Thank you for the response Putnam. I was wondering what was happening there.
Quote from: KristoffPLIs there any chance at all that backing up/syncing saves in the Steam Cloud service will be implemented in the future? I have two PCs I play the game on and it would be handy to have my saved games be synced between them (in addition to having a backup in case something goes from with the hard drive)Quote from: sbritorodrIs there any plans to add steam cloud saves? This would be a really QoL update for me
> 50.08 notes: Allowed most water-based jobs that use buckets to use partially-filled water buckets in addition to empty buckets.
Which jobs can't use partially filled buckets?
Quote from: Shonai_DwellerAre there plans to add the remaining export functions to Legends Mode? The pops and history files are probably the most important bit. At least to me as a modder anyway.Quote from: ListygThank you for reimplementing legends export. However, in the classic version alongside legends xml export there were some other options allowing to export for example, historical figures or terrain information. I heard that terrain data export would be difficult to reimplement for the time being because it's tied to adventurer mode in some way, but are there any plans to reimplement those other remaining export options that were there in the classic, in the Steam version in the meantime? Like the option to export historical figures etc. I apologize if I come off as overly persistent with asking about those exports but there seem to be quite a few of people who are looking forward to seeing them back in the Steam version of the game.
1.Can we expect some adventure mode ai improvements after the update is out?
2.After the magic update, will there be the possibility of some people having powers based on their values and personalities?
3.Will we ever have procedural government systems?
Are there plans to further expand the personality model, to have dwarfs interact more with the community in which they live? For example, to enable scenarios such as:
- A dwarf reacting with jealousy to a spouse having an affair.
- A dwarf trying to mend relationship between two friends who had a fight.
- A dwarf experiencing peer pressure to do something they don't really want to (e.g. joining the military, because all their acquaintances did).
Is it possible for one dwarf to affect the mood of another?
(do you have any future plans for how dwarfs affect one another, action-reaction scenarios)
1) for example, perhaps a general who gets excited while in combat can cause others to become excited and spur them forward, while the same would be true if they are terrified and cause others to flea with them.
2) have you considered adding a counselling room?
(Or some other method of helping dwarves regain control of their mood? magic enchantments???)
where dwarfs who are upset will seek out help?
with the beauty of the room and skill of the counsellor causing a level of mood buff?
(list of entity position tokens for graphics) Are we likely to get these back?
Whats going on under the hood exactly, when a fell mood dwarf grabs an intelligent HFS creature? Why does it look like probabilities are weighted differently depending on the reagent material used during a fell mood? From a lot of testing, it appears that in fell mood instances involving an intelligent HFS gemstone person being "used" as its reagent, specifically, the resulting artifact will be either a left or a right gauntlet 50% of the time, which is odd.
Are the black/shadowy sprites for procedurally generated creatures considered final art or stand-ins for the time being?
Early footage of premium featured more graphicalized tree stumps that did not make it into release; my theory is that by extending beyond it's own tilespace it created clipping issues when trees were directly adjacent other objects. They looked quite epic however! Might we seem them return, and what other kinds of fun graphics ended up on the cutting room floor due to time constraints? I enjoyed watching the evolution of many assets as the game neared release- and I'm also curious if the artists created referenced 3D models for the later iterations of wagons, siege engines, or windmills. They look "modeled", and they're some of the finest assets in the game now.
What news of reinstating keyboard controls? (I'm really struggling with the inefficiency of the mouse for large designations, plus the loss of macros)
Why can't I find the filter options for assigning units to zones (such as showing only grazing animals for pastures)?
1. What's left on the to do list before work porting adventure mode over to the steam version can begin? Adventure mode was always my favorite mode.
2. Over the updates between now and the myth and magic update will any other minor magical activities/effects be added similar to the divination dice that were added a while back?
Are you satisfied with the way magma currently behaves? Were you ever interested in making it more realistic? For example, people can not sink into real magma, as it is roughly two to three times more dense than living tissue.
If gorlaks have the [GOOD] tag and are supposed to be peaceful, sociable creatures, why are gorlaks that come from the caverns technically marked as hostile?
Currently, the underworld is a giant cave with demons and eerie glowing pits that sometimes connects to the upperworld through towers in dark fortresses. It's rather bland compared to other parts of the game.
Do you have any plans for the underworld pre-magic, after which it will (presumably) be overhauled and left completely up to world generation? For example, adding something valuable there to make it worth venturing into? Or maybe creating underworld structures like fortresses/pits with cages and other evil contraptions of hellish depravity?
What is the EQUIPMENT creature flag used for?
I tested a summon unit interaction for creatures with the EQUIPMENT flag, and it ended up summoning a wagon. This is the same as summon interactions which only summon creatures with the EQUIPMENT_WAGON flag. I don't think these flags are redundant though.
Thank you for your time and answers Mr. Toad.
Are there any plans to put something in the highlighted box when you're selecting things for trade in classic graphics? A colored 'x' or something -- as far as I can see it just kind of highlights itself a slightly lighter gray which can be a bit tricky to see at a glance
What is the timeline for fixing the [CONDITION_NOT_DYED] and [CONDITION_DYED:COLOR] tags?
I really want to make a mod which adds new dyes and accurately displays clothing colors instead of having profession colors. It would be cool if there was tags to detect if a body part is missing, or if a weapon is in multigrasp, or if a particular item is hauled instead of only a tag for number of items hauled. Currently I think artifact weapons and armor don't display on your dwarves in vanilla. I fixed this in my mod by removing the the [CONDITION_CRAFTED_ARTIFACT] tag and layer grouping some stuff. Unfortunately the game doesn't properly detect the material of a crafted artifact so it can only display a generic artifact instead of a specific one of a particular material. Last I checked the creatures_graphics layered file also looks for black bronze equipment instead of bismuth bronze. That would be an easy graphics fix since it only requires the replace command.
This is my first time writing here so please warn me If I do something wrong, thank you.1. It's not random, but procedurally generated. This means there will be a framework that specifies the things that can be generated for each parameter and logic tied to that to produce the resulting abilities and properties when these elements are combined. It's definitely not trivial, but it's something that's been used by DF as a fundamental element throughout the development, so it's something Toady is very familiar with.
1- About myth&magic update, myth generator will create random people and creatures but how will you make their designs in game if they are completely random? I remember I saw something like ''lizard with exposed brain'' this could be easy since we have lizard design but how will you do every random creatures' design?
:
1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?
2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?
3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?
4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?
1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?
2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?
3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?
4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?
You need to make your questions lime green so Toady can see them.
As multithreading appeared to be quite possible and implementable instead of being "too hard", may be another long wanted feature is also not so impossible? I mean multiplayer. There are a lot of turn based games with simultaneous MP like Crusader Kings or Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.Multithreading isn't a one-and-done feature - there is a large spectrum between "not multithreaded" and "completely multithreaded". Putnam identified a few things that were performance-intensive while also being independent enough that they could be multithreaded without a huge undertaking or rewrite, then implemented multithreading for some of them. The vast majority of features in the game are still not multithreaded, and I would guess they will probably stay that way, although there would probably continue to be some research into what makes sense to multithread. In other words, a number of DF's features still are "too hard" to multithread to justify the effort.
Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.This, you mean? (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606448745 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606448745)) Edit: (Yes, apparently so, in case Tarn's interest was piqued, due to Criperum's overcite (*ba dum tss*) in the first place.)
With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing and stone temp come to mind for me.Putnam has actually published some findings from profiling the game - this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180561.0) goes into some detail about how pathfinding isn't a major contributor to speedups. So even if it is relatively easier to multithread than other parts of the game, the payoff would be pretty minimal.
Yes, this oneRimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.This, you mean? (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606448745 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2606448745)) Edit: trying to cut down on confusion caused by you leaving that one out, if so.
1. As I recall from the myth demos, deities and primordial forces are given spheres by looking at what objects with obvious spheres (like the sky, elemental planes, certain creatures, divine law, etc.) they created during mythgen. So if a deity created the ocean, they might become associated with OCEAN or maybe WATER. However, some spheres would seem required for a more cohesive myth narrative. Like the TRICKERY of a trickster god, or a deity of LAW not running around wrecking things. Especially if mythgen doesn't cease completely at the point where historygen starts (or the player is able to enter the world), but continues to run in parallel to history (albeit slow). At what point would these sphere-connections be put into place? At the end of (normal?) mythgen where historygen starts? When something with an obvious sphere connection is created?
2. Many cultures have considered mundane animals to have magical properties, such as scarabs or black cats. Can we expect any of this with mythgen, or will it rather be the separate fantastic beasts, like the unicorn, who are granted powers?
3. Any thoughs on sacred animals/plants and mythgen?
With all the changes to UI, has it made it technically easier to translate Dwarf Fortress to other languages? Are we likely to see localisation of Dwarf Fortress, perhaps by KitFox or another third party? Is it technically feasible to abstract the interface to the point where fans could do the translations themselves? If not yet, is it possible or likely, perhaps something Putnam could take the lead on?
Given that we are about to switch to sdl2 and at the same time sdl2 is going into maintenance mode, are there any wishlist items that you want to see from sdl3? And on the same line of questions, can we move to sdl3 more quickly once it is released?Worth noting the difference between "maintenance mode" and "end of life". SDL2 will still minor releases for bugfixes from time to time. As far as I know, an end-of-life date hasn't been set yet. In contrast, SDL 1.2 has not seen any releases since 1.2.15 was released in 2012. (There actually are occasional changes made to it still, including as recently as last month (https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL-1.2/commits/main) (!), but you would have to compile SDL from source to use them.)
With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing and stone temp come to mind for me.Putnam has actually published some findings from profiling the game - this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180561.0) goes into some detail about how pathfinding isn't a major contributor to speedups. So even if it is relatively easier to multithread than other parts of the game, the payoff would be pretty minimal.
Saves can be very large so I don't think it can be a default option given how long it would take to sync saves. It might be possible to make it optional but the fast way of setting up a sync folder doesn't seem to do that. We're open to doing it but it might require a small workshop-like push to get it to function.
I already asked something similar here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180367.0), but I thought maybe it would be better to do so here. It's basically the same thing:The version number of the game indicates the percentage of features implemented from a list they have of "features for game to be considered 1.0".
Is there a roadmap being followed?
or
What would be the best way to keep track of the development of Dwarf Fortress?
There is a dev log at http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/ (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/) if you want somewhere you can check for updates.
What would be the best way to keep track of the development of Dwarf Fortress?
Quote from: Immortal-DWhat news of reinstating keyboard controls? (I'm really struggling with the inefficiency of the mouse for large designations, plus the loss of macros)
Macros are in there in some form, though maybe they don't play nice with the designation cursor - I thought I tested that part. In any case, there isn't specific news, but Putnam has been revamping interface stuff, including standardize some list widgets and such that should really help when we get there.
Given that we are about to switch to sdl2 and at the same time sdl2 is going into maintenance mode, are there any wishlist items that you want to see from sdl3? And on the same line of questions, can we move to sdl3 more quickly once it is released?
With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing and stone temp come to mind for me.Putnam has actually published some findings from profiling the game - this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=180561.0) goes into some detail about how pathfinding isn't a major contributor to speedups. So even if it is relatively easier to multithread than other parts of the game, the payoff would be pretty minimal.
I hadn't looked at that thread in a while, and didn't realize the numbers where rechecked and found to be even less then initially thought. Still, heat-checks (#6) was the other thing I asked about. and re-reading it just, really, changes the question to strike pathing and replace it with relationship checks during watching performances. What is being threaded isn't really the question, so much as is there things in the works to make better use of this 8-core/16-thread processor that I'm not sure I would have believed could be bought for a non-governmental budget when I started using computers.
In any event, it was worth reviewing that thread, there was a lot of new information in it since I last looked at it.
:
I made those relationship checks 10x as fast by just introducing a little caching, turning the checks from O(logn) to amortized O(1)--multithreading is an O(1) speedup, so improvements in algorithms will win just about 100% of the time, and this is a great example of that
This may have been asked before but currently, Legendsviewer doesn't work with the steam version as some of the data required can't be exported. Are there plans to bring back the required exporting options?
Are there any plans to put something in the highlighted box when you're selecting things for trade in classic graphics? A colored 'x' or something -- as far as I can see it just kind of highlights itself a slightly lighter gray which can be a bit tricky to see at a glance
Are there plans to re-implement an option for varied tiles in classic graphics? When I played before I would always immediately turned varied tiles off for easier readability
What is the timeline for fixing the [CONDITION_NOT_DYED] and [CONDITION_DYED:COLOR] tags?
I really want to make a mod which adds new dyes and accurately displays clothing colors instead of having profession colors. It would be cool if there was tags to detect if a body part is missing, or if a weapon is in multigrasp, or if a particular item is hauled instead of only a tag for number of items hauled. Currently I think artifact weapons and armor don't display on your dwarves in vanilla. I fixed this in my mod by removing the the [CONDITION_CRAFTED_ARTIFACT] tag and layer grouping some stuff. Unfortunately the game doesn't properly detect the material of a crafted artifact so it can only display a generic artifact instead of a specific one of a particular material. Last I checked the creatures_graphics layered file also looks for black bronze equipment instead of bismuth bronze. That would be an easy graphics fix since it only requires the replace command.
1- About myth&magic update, myth generator will create random people and creatures but how will you make their designs in game if they are completely random? I remember I saw something like ''lizard with exposed brain'' this could be easy since we have lizard design but how will you do every random creatures' design?
2- I don't know if random quests are possible but If it's not, will we see more complicated (or detailed) quests in adventure mode near future? Like maybe this example not that complicated but, you see a poor village and ask what happened, they say bandits often raid here but they don't know where they come so ask you if you spend some time here wait for bandits and offer you a house (you can reject and pay for it) and you wait some time and realize they don't come here so ask villagers about their predictions where bandits are etc.
3- Will our adventurer and others do their jobs (miner, farmer), earn money etc. before big wait?
4-I remember I saw one of the aims of new steam version adventure mode was adding new things for our adventurer and making the mode more enjoyable. So, will we see villain update too with adventure mode release or will we wait a bit longer for it?
Is the rate at which items in a refuse stockpile decay related to the item’s size? I.e. do larger items take longer to decay?
1. Have you considered consulting UX professional at any point? Caves of Qud has their entire UI re-conceptualised by an artist and they are implementing that step by step. Adventurer, being very interface-heavy, could benefit from this probably?
2. What are the plans ahead art-wise? Some animations perhaps?
3. Most games have audial feedback on UI interaction(think click sound on buttons). Would it be realistic to implement that in DF?
4. Have you ever played Gnomoria/Ingnomia?
With the multi-threaded improvements to the line-of-sight code going live, is there any plans to look into threading other parts of the code? Pathing relationship checks during watching performances and stone temp come to mind for me.
1. As I recall from the myth demos, deities and primordial forces are given spheres by looking at what objects with obvious spheres (like the sky, elemental planes, certain creatures, divine law, etc.) they created during mythgen. So if a deity created the ocean, they might become associated with OCEAN or maybe WATER. However, some spheres would seem required for a more cohesive myth narrative. Like the TRICKERY of a trickster god, or a deity of LAW not running around wrecking things. Especially if mythgen doesn't cease completely at the point where historygen starts (or the player is able to enter the world), but continues to run in parallel to history (albeit slow). At what point would these sphere-connections be put into place? At the end of (normal?) mythgen where historygen starts? When something with an obvious sphere connection is created?
2. Many cultures have considered mundane animals to have magical properties, such as scarabs or black cats. Can we expect any of this with mythgen, or will it rather be the separate fantastic beasts, like the unicorn, who are granted powers?
3. Any thoughs on sacred animals/plants and mythgen?
As multithreading appeared to be quite possible and implementable instead of being "too hard", may be another long wanted feature is also not so impossible? I mean multiplayer. There are a lot of turn based games with simultaneous MP like Crusader Kings or Rimworld which is basically DF for casuals, it has a mod that adds pretty decent multiplayer experience without issues.
Given that we are about to switch to sdl2 and at the same time sdl2 is going into maintenance mode, are there any wishlist items that you want to see from sdl3? And on the same line of questions, can we move to sdl3 more quickly once it is released?
Are there any scripts or features in DFHack that you think would be good candidates to integrate into DF itself, should time allow?
With all the changes to UI, has it made it technically easier to translate Dwarf Fortress to other languages? Are we likely to see localisation of Dwarf Fortress, perhaps by KitFox or another third party? Is it technically feasible to abstract the interface to the point where fans could do the translations themselves? If not yet, is it possible or likely, perhaps something Putnam could take the lead on?
With the Linux port compiling now, will we get an aarch64 build for Linux, or just aarch64 for macOS and x86_64 for Linux?
Is there a roadmap being followed?
or
What would be the best way to keep track of the development of Dwarf Fortress?
This may have been asked before but currently, Legendsviewer doesn't work with the steam version as some of the data required can't be exported. Are there plans to bring back the required exporting options?
:
I made those relationship checks 10x as fast by just introducing a little caching, turning the checks from O(logn) to amortized O(1)--multithreading is an O(1) speedup, so improvements in algorithms will win just about 100% of the time, and this is a great example of that
Expressing strong support for Putnam here: When looking to make things faster, first try to improve/replace the algorithms, then retry to improve the algorithms, then again try to improve the algorithms. After that you may start to look for optimizations (and while doing that, keep an eye open for algorithm improvements).
It's also the case that an algorithm that was good once upon a time may become less suited to its ever expanding set of tasks as years go by, so a need to replace an algorithm isn't automatically a sign of a bad design.
Are there any scripts or features in DFHack that you think would be good candidates to integrate into DF itself, should time allow?
People have noted that waves breaking on the shore, and the foam they spread around, currently look a lot less impressive in Graphics mode than in ASCII mode. Is there a plan to remedy this?
People have noted that waves breaking on the shore, and the foam they spread around, currently look a lot less impressive in Graphics mode than in ASCII mode. Is there a plan to remedy this?
Not just their look - you were probably unaware that they don't actually function as waves (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Ocean#Ocean_waves), either?
2) What is the nature of the code-sharing deal you worked out with the DF hack team? Are you taking precautions against potential copyright issues?
2) What is the nature of the code-sharing deal you worked out with the DF hack team? Are you taking precautions against potential copyright issues?
I think the short answer here is that there's no code-sharing deal with the DFHack team.
For about a year now there's been a very small testing group that get an early release to bug test, and then what will be the public beta a couple days early. More recently, members of the DFHack team are in that testing group, so they can prepare for releases, and Tarn and Putnam are pretty accessible in that chat for specific issues that come up.
Nevertheless, they're almost entirely only getting a few days early access to public releases. I think it's underestimated in the community just how very good the core DFHack team is at putting things together from the same releases everyone else gets. Early access lets them release very close to the public release time.
Any access to actual code appears to be limited to occasional small snippets, but it having Putnam available (who's historically been active in DFHack) to explain this or that has probably helped a lot.
I'm not part of the DFHack team but I'm in testing, so it's possible I've messed up some small detail, but that's how it works in general.
Thanks for the reply, & i'm glad to hear that, though I was most worried about code flowing the other way - ever since that whole unfortunate meph thing ://What "code flowing the other way" are you referring to? The DFHack code is less useful to DF than DF code is to DFHack, because we (DFHack) have historically used different names for the majority of things in DF. We are used to translating the names as needed if we ever get code snippets, but Bay12 is not so much. That said, our code is zlib-licensed, so it would be pretty hard for DF to create copyright issues by using any of our code.
Hi Toady!
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the state of diplomacy and interaction between the other civilizations? Do you intend to expand on diplomacy and maybe even visiting other locations with diplomats? Absolutely love your work on this game and will forever tip my hat to you for such an amazing life project.
Potential thought on the diplomat visiting idea. Could there be a mini-adventurer mini game within fortress mode? Maybe it utilizes squad mode to control your diplomat and navigate the visiting fortress to reach and find said site’s leader, all the while avoiding traps and unruly citizens or other unwanted guests at a location.
[color=limegreen]in lime green[/color]
With a military uniform overhaul on the table, I'm curious if it has ever crossed your mind to make it possible to designate some clothing as military only? Surely there's plenty of ways to make it work. Perhaps an 'equipment use' menu akin to the 'stone use' menu, or just rigid priority for the military to claim uniform items before civilians. I bet there's a dozen ways to skin such a cat.
Especially with premium graphics, the idea of having a military equipped with identifying garments is compelling, at least for me. Grizzly bear leather cloaks embroidered with the symbol of our warrior deity, and a helm studded with the visage of each forgotten beast slain by its wearer? Yes please! To less flamboyant ends, lots of players I interact with just want the humble option to give their favorite Dwarf a special shirt.
Hi Toady!
Would you consider altering the lifespan of the Sponge Man to be more sponge-like? Currently they live between 60-80 years, while regular sea sponges can live for thousands
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0).
hi Toady!
I can’t seem to find a full answer as to why, but is there anyway for me to edit the engraving text phrases used when one makes a custom slab or art description? I would even love it if we could somehow have a custom text fill in option too if that was somehow possible. Mainly I figured we should be able to at least alter the existing phrases to read a little bit different if desired but the only answer I seem to get is, it’s hardcoded. Is there a reason this is the case?
hi Toady!
I can’t seem to find a full answer as to why, but is there anyway for me to edit the engraving text phrases used when one makes a custom slab or art description? I would even love it if we could somehow have a custom text fill in option too if that was somehow possible. Mainly I figured we should be able to at least alter the existing phrases to read a little bit different if desired but the only answer I seem to get is, it’s hardcoded. Is there a reason this is the case?
Given that UI is your current focus: are you aware of certain procgen code shenanigans (gremlin-style lever pulling, I guess) causing disruption in adv character gen, such as this (Discord: https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/1049402643342168114/1119264182093758541 (https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/1049402643342168114/1119264182093758541)); also a long-standing calendar ☼engraving☼ (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Felsite) that needs attention?Pretty sure these bugs are on the bug tracker.
2. We've thought about it vaguely a bit, like how to place a whole e.g. alchemy system on top the existing mundane-or-not raws procedurally. There are plenty of existing tags (colors, large predator, etc.) that the game can use, but there'd still be more structure needed to stop it from feeling really mushy and random, but some of it should feel kinda random/historical/etc./etc. Seems feasible though, with any target object.YES! Do it! Procedural alchemy is YES! Go for it! Initial release could be full random, and I imagine that would be highly entertaining.
Multiplayer was never impossible. I just don't have the skills for it, and it's not my kind of game so I don't want to design and maintain it. A mod would make more sense -- if a mod springs up or something else comes up, and it doesn't take much support from my end, that's cool.I still firmly believe that a competitive multiplayer RTS mod for Dwarf Fortress would be both hilarious and glorious in equal measure.
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future?
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future?A lot of things are abstracted away in DF, and in the case of writing the production of the material written on can be considered a stand in for the complete set of things actually needed. It's somewhat similar to how workshops can produce things without explicit tools (or even materials for the construction of tools). Some aspects of the simulation may be expanded on in the future (I believe workshops will be overhauled at some unplanned point in the future). My guess is that the answer to the question would be that it's not impossible, but we'll see what happens.
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future?
Hello, hitorigochi! Welcome to the Bay12 Forums! Please remember to make your questions lime green so that Toady One can see and remember to answer them!
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future?A lot of things are abstracted away in DF, and in the case of writing the production of the material written on can be considered a stand in for the complete set of things actually needed. It's somewhat similar to how workshops can produce things without explicit tools (or even materials for the construction of tools). Some aspects of the simulation may be expanded on in the future (I believe workshops will be overhauled at some unplanned point in the future). My guess is that the answer to the question would be that it's not impossible, but we'll see what happens.
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future? Because writing in the library doesn't require pen and ink, it feels like the words written on paper are out of thin air. It feels strange.
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future? Because writing in the library doesn't require pen and ink, it feels like the words written on paper are out of thin air. It feels strange.
That's an interesting point, and it wouldn't add too much complexity either. Ink could be made from some leaves or fruit I guess (like real ink can be made from acorns or walnut flesh, or various leaves).
I'm not sure pens really need to be explicitly mentioned as they were mostly disposable things that could easily be made from many kinds of feathers or reeds.
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future? Because writing in the library doesn't require pen and ink, it feels like the words written on paper are out of thin air. It feels strange.our best scientists put their heads together and determined that they use their stiff beards to push bits of plump helmet mince roast into the soft, spongey tissue of the papyrus fabric.
Another question, do dwarves not use any tools when fishing? Will fishing rods be added in the future?
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future? Because writing in the library doesn't require pen and ink, it feels like the words written on paper are out of thin air. It feels strange.our best scientists put their heads together and determined that they use their stiff beards to push bits of plump helmet mince roast into the soft, spongey tissue of the papyrus fabric.
Another question, do dwarves not use any tools when fishing? Will fishing rods be added in the future?
it's probably for the best that it's not in the game as dwarves may simply have spent all their time running around collecting pens and inkwells, much like the coin hoarding problems that disabled the economy in earlier versions.
how do you know dwarves need pen and ink to writeIn fact, dwarves write with beards and food scraps.
how do you know dwarves need pen and ink to writeIn fact, dwarves write with beards and food scraps.
how do you know dwarves need pen and ink to writeIn fact, dwarves write with beards and food scraps.
Why aren't you taking this to DF Suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) where it belongs?
2- About myth and magic arc, will we see different kinds of magical systems like maybe a world which only way to cast a magic spell is upgrade items and weapons with runes or other materials?
Will anti piracy features be added in the future? I found that the game can be opened without starting Steam.
Will anti piracy features be added in the future? I found that the game can be opened without starting Steam.
how do you know dwarves need pen and ink to writeIn fact, dwarves write with beards and food scraps.
Why aren't you taking this to DF Suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) where it belongs?
Is it about writing and fishing? I'm not very sure where to put it, so I just decided to put it here. I am not very familiar with this forum.
Development log (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html)
Development page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0). Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well. You do that like this:Code: [Select][color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
Here is the last reply from the last thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7701845#msg7701845
At the time of this thread's creation, the current plan was continuing working on bugs and smaller suggestions while integrating features important to both the magic releases and making the long wait for the magic release more tolerable, generally related to armies and villains. Then we'll move on to myths and magic, before tackling embark scenarios and their associated frameworks (law, property, customs, status, etc.).
how do you know dwarves need pen and ink to writeIn fact, dwarves write with beards and food scraps.
Why aren't you taking this to DF Suggestions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0) where it belongs?
Is it about writing and fishing? I'm not very sure where to put it, so I just decided to put it here. I am not very familiar with this forum.Development log (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html)
Development page (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
The purpose of the thread is to discuss current developments. Specific bugs should be reported on the bug tracker (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/), and specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0). Questions and comments about the development page or DF development somewhat more broadly work here, though any contentious topics that lead to derails are discouraged -- there are threads for those too.
If you have specific questions, I'll try to answer them all, although it is difficult to respond to everything when it is busy. I'll lean toward questions that involve current developments to avoid pulling the entire suggestion forum in here. In the past, we've all found the practice of making questions limegreen works pretty well. You do that like this:Code: [Select][color=limegreen]making questions limegreen[/color]
Here is the last reply from the last thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7701845#msg7701845
At the time of this thread's creation, the current plan was continuing working on bugs and smaller suggestions while integrating features important to both the magic releases and making the long wait for the magic release more tolerable, generally related to armies and villains. Then we'll move on to myths and magic, before tackling embark scenarios and their associated frameworks (law, property, customs, status, etc.).
That's from the very first post in this thread.
The Suggestions Forum is the place to post any and all suggestions that you have for the game. It's also the place to add your two cents concerning things that other people have suggested (and for others to add their two cents concerning yours). just remember to read the rules at the top of the Forum before posting there. The only time suggestions should be posted in FoTF is if they relate to current development. You can, of course, ask when a particular item will be worked on, but don't be surprised if the answer is "We don't know". In any case, Toady One regularly reads the threads in the Suggestions Forum (at least skimming the first post of each new thread) and takes notes. In FoTF, he focuses on questions (marked in lime green), and I don't think he takes any notes. TLDR, if you want any chance of your suggestion being implemented, then put it in the Suggestions Forum.
Will anti piracy features be added in the future? I found that the game can be opened without starting Steam.
1. Is still the case that the map rework is required before adventure mode? This means world generation is being reworked, right?
2. Do you plan to add ways to influence world generation beyond parameters? E.g. civ placement, a "pre history" terrain editor, a way to influence the chronology of creation, design a god to be worshipped, way to more precisely choose how many of each type of civ will be added etc.
3. Any plans to add more interactions / consequences based on personalities / beliefs in the near future?
4. I understand Putnam's focus is on multi threading / performance enhancements. Once these are stable and performance is acceptable, what's her next focus? Bugs? new mechanics/New features? Adventure mode/fortress mode? Some combination?
(I know choosing the number of each civ for world generation can be done already by editing RAWS but it's cumbersome)
1. There have been some limited map handling changes with the Premium release, but the talk about separating the map into layers that can be loaded independently to facilitate adventure mode in particular (and enable new functionality generally) is part of the map rewrite and will not be connected to the current/near future adventure mode update. It's possible the map rewrite will enable new adventure mode stuff that might be performed in post map rewrite updates, but the same is true with other future changes, such as workshop restructuring and moving "terrain". It's a cycle of providing new functionality and making use of it.
1. Is still the case that the map rework is required before adventure mode? This means world generation is being reworked, right?
2. Do you plan to add ways to influence world generation beyond parameters? E.g. civ placement, a "pre history" terrain editor, a way to influence the chronology of creation, design a god to be worshipped, way to more precisely choose how many of each type of civ will be added etc.
:
(I know choosing the number of each civ for world generation can be done already by editing RAWs but it's cumbersome)
Now that you have a lot more money at your disposal, have you given any thought to paying scholars on things like historical crafting methods (or cooking, the tech tree, farming etc when you eventually revisit them) to consult for future changes to those respective systems?
There's a lot of cool broke nerds out there that would enjoy seeing their niche field of study and related books exposed on steam, especially as academic labor strikes start up again in the fall. But I can also understand if the studying you put in is part of the fun of your job, or if that would throw off your long term calculations for all the staff you've got now. Thanks for the answers and for the game!
dear Toady,
i was wondering why stone cavern floors arent color palleted per type so they match the walls
thank u. and great job on the game!
Will any adventure mode glitches be fixed for the steam release? For example, will the glitch where if you fast travel after being transformed into a giant animal by divination dice then exit fast travel you turn back to normal again before the week is up be fixed?
Elves aren't really much of a threat in the current build of the game. I understand nothing is finished, but it made me wonder-- How do you imagine the elves in some finished version of the game you are working towards? As far as combat and magical abilities, wisdom or intelligence, etc when compared to the other species./color]
(I'm aware the future of the game is more variety of everything in each world. I'm more interested in how Toady imagines the creatures in his 'head canon')
Will divine metal items be getting their own palette swapped variations in the near future, or is it just something thats not even on the radar?
People have noted that waves breaking on the shore, and the foam they spread around, currently look a lot less impressive in Graphics mode than in ASCII mode. Is there a plan to remedy this?
1) When you say that you plan for everything from the old version to be on steam, does that mean you plan to add the old intro movies back to the game? They're iconic and I love how they set the mood.
2) What is the nature of the code-sharing deal you worked out with the DF hack team? Are you taking precautions against potential copyright issues?
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the state of diplomacy and interaction between the other civilizations? Do you intend to expand on diplomacy and maybe even visiting other locations with diplomats? Absolutely love your work on this game and will forever tip my hat to you for such an amazing life project.
Potential thought on the diplomat visiting idea. Could there be a mini-adventurer mini game within fortress mode? Maybe it utilizes squad mode to control your diplomat and navigate the visiting fortress to reach and find said site’s leader, all the while avoiding traps and unruly citizens or other unwanted guests at a location.
With a military uniform overhaul on the table, I'm curious if it has ever crossed your mind to make it possible to designate some clothing as military only? Surely there's plenty of ways to make it work. Perhaps an 'equipment use' menu akin to the 'stone use' menu, or just rigid priority for the military to claim uniform items before civilians. I bet there's a dozen ways to skin such a cat.
Especially with premium graphics, the idea of having a military equipped with identifying garments is compelling, at least for me. Grizzly bear leather cloaks embroidered with the symbol of our warrior deity, and a helm studded with the visage of each forgotten beast slain by its wearer? Yes please! To less flamboyant ends, lots of players I interact with just want the humble option to give their favorite Dwarf a special shirt.
Would you consider altering the lifespan of the Sponge Man to be more sponge-like? Currently they live between 60-80 years, while regular sea sponges can live for thousands
I can’t seem to find a full answer as to why, but is there anyway for me to edit the engraving text phrases used when one makes a custom slab or art description? I would even love it if we could somehow have a custom text fill in option too if that was somehow possible. Mainly I figured we should be able to at least alter the existing phrases to read a little bit different if desired but the only answer I seem to get is, it’s hardcoded. Is there a reason this is the case?
Given that UI is your current focus: are you aware of certain procgen code shenanigans (gremlin-style lever pulling, I guess) causing disruption in adv character gen, such as this (Kitfox: https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/1049402643342168114/1119264182093758541); also a long-standing calendar ☼engraving☼ that needs attention?
EDIT: Looks like someone's also taken issue (Kitfox:https://discord.com/channels/329272032778780672/847643850612801536/1133749707257168004) with, IIRC, your marking of the 'Outsider' category for (programmatic) dumping, as it were. Care to remind us just what that was about?
Any idea on when you think you’ll do so more work on the way the text for engravings and artwork is utilized? Will you be adding custom line functions or at least more to the existing lists of current options?
YES! Do it! Procedural alchemy is YES! Go for it! Initial release could be full random, and I imagine that would be highly entertaining.
Relevant: Have you ever played Alchemists, the board game?
Hello. I am a novice and I have a problem that has been bothering me. How do dwarves write without pen and ink? I see dwarves writing in the library without the need for pen and ink. Will pens and ink be added in the future? Because writing in the library doesn't require pen and ink, it feels like the words written on paper are out of thin air. It feels strange.
Another question, do dwarves not use any tools when fishing? Will fishing rods be added in the future?
When will the merch be available in Europe?
1a- About future law arc, will we have a bounty system? It would be good if the only way to learn someone's bounty is looking at boards in the towns or with rumors (rumors can be wrong but you will never know until you find the truth). Also bounties can change depending on person's crimes. Also I would love playing as a bounty hunter and compete with other bounty hunters in the world. If you become more and more popular, towns could also ask for help (both for our player and other characters)
1b- If they catch us and put in a prison, will we actually live in a prison life? Like maybe every prison has its own rules, difficulty (easy to escape or more developed and hard to escape), different guardians (some guardians are more friendly, some are more strict) more interactions with people in prison, trade with them etc.
2- About myth and magic arc, will we see different kinds of magical systems like maybe a world which only way to cast a magic spell is upgrade items and weapons with runes or other materials?
Will anti piracy features be added in the future? I found that the game can be opened without starting Steam.
1. Is still the case that the map rework is required before adventure mode? This means world generation is being reworked, right?
2. Do you plan to add ways to influence world generation beyond parameters? E.g. civ placement, a "pre history" terrain editor, a way to influence the chronology of creation, design a god to be worshipped, way to more precisely choose how many of each type of civ will be added etc.
3. Any plans to add more interactions / consequences based on personalities / beliefs in the near future?
4. I understand Putnam's focus is on multi threading / performance enhancements. Once these are stable and performance is acceptable, what's her next focus? Bugs? new mechanics/New features? Adventure mode/fortress mode? Some combination?
(I know choosing the number of each civ for world generation can be done already by editing RAWS but it's cumbersome)
Now that you have a lot more money at your disposal, have you given any thought to paying scholars on things like historical crafting methods (or cooking, the tech tree, farming etc when you eventually revisit them) to consult for future changes to those respective systems?
There's a lot of cool broke nerds out there that would enjoy seeing their niche field of study and related books exposed on steam, especially as academic labor strikes start up again in the fall. But I can also understand if the studying you put in is part of the fun of your job, or if that would throw off your long term calculations for all the staff you've got now. Thanks for the answers and for the game!
i was wondering why stone cavern floors arent color palleted per type so they match the walls
i was wondering about animal alimentation, after seeing that Pandas eat bamboos in the game. i didn't have bamboo on my embark but i really wanted to have a panda zoo in this fort, so i went to the raw to make them classic grazers.
i commented the specific alimentation token and it made me wonder why animal alimentation is so simple in the game, when the code seems almost complete on this part (there is a token for specific alimentation, it goes a little beyond "grazers eat grass"). apart from grazers (and pandas and maybe other specific animals), they don't need any food or water to survive, in my forts, it often became a empty rock chamber entirely populated by pigs that i open only to bring a few of them to the butcher shop.
1- Do you intend to expend on that in the future, handling carnivors eating other animals, etc ?
2- if so, do you tie it with a major future update in particular or do you class it in a "minor tweaks" group ?
Will any adventure mode glitches be fixed for the steam release? For example, will the glitch where if you fast travel after being transformed into a giant animal by divination dice then exit fast travel you turn back to normal again before the week is up be fixed?
As of right now, the player is informed of the outcomes of battles only upon the return of the squads they send out. In regards to the future release of better diplomacy/military management, you've talked about implementing more conventional total war-ish 4x strategy combat, with us getting a real-time view of entire armies fighting in enemies' settlements. Is the current approach of information having to travel through the world via messengers and alike going to be replaced by the player being instantly notified of everything as it happens, or do you have some way to mitigate the conflict between these 2 somewhat clashing systems?
I, personally, think the idea of mail pigeons and misunderstandings between civilizations due to an emissary not making it somewhere on time, thus resulting in a great war, would be cool, but either of these methods, if incompatible, will be great!
Elves aren't really much of a threat in the current build of the game. I understand nothing is finished, but it made me wonder-- How do you imagine the elves in some finished version of the game you are working towards? As far as combat and magical abilities, wisdom or intelligence, etc when compared to the other species.
Do you think of them as being more of a threat or will they always be less dangerous in battle than the other species? Or will they be deadly force once magic is in play?
(I'm aware the future of the game is more variety of everything in each world. I'm more interested in how Toady imagines the creatures in his 'head canon')
s
Will divine metal items be getting their own palette swapped variations in the near future, or is it just something thats not even on the radar?
At present, the color differences are only respected in ASCII mode. And due to how the divine metals populate during world-gen, its not clear, at least to me, whether modders are, or will be, able to assign their individual sprite graphics for all the different different divine metal items, or are at least do so safely. It would be neat to see a wider color palette on these.
People have noted that waves breaking on the shore, and the foam they spread around, currently look a lot less impressive in Graphics mode than in ASCII mode. Is there a plan to remedy this?
When will the merch be available in Europe?
[...] is there any update on MacOS versions [...]
May I also softly hint that MacOS users comprise about a third of the market (I could find the source but that would be pedantic even for me) and that as MacOS has switched to ARM64/aarch64 it might be prudent to release a version for the mac and linux users on ARM? I know that I at least have not bought a copy yet as it doesn't run on my personal computer. Perhaps this is true for a significant number of people.At least historically, DF users on Linux have far exceeded users on macOS. My understanding is that's part of the reason why Linux is being prioritized.
I've seen written by Putnam that it 'could be' as simple as pressing a buttonI'm skeptical that this is the case, but it is true that once DF is compiling on Linux, getting it to compile on macOS has generally been pretty easy in the past. They have historically used the same compiler (GCC); new macOS builds might transition to Clang, but GCC and Clang typically behave much more similarly than GCC and MSVC (on Windows), so I expect building DF on macOS to be fairly straightforward once it's building on Linux. Getting it to run is another story, which is what I was getting at above.
My understanding is that there was no intended pronunciation originally. The wiki has suggested pronunciation here: https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Dwarven_languageYes, it does have suggestions in its general scope, hence my original link.
At the risk of adding to a chorus, is there any update on MacOS versions. I've seen written by Putnam that it 'could be' as simple as pressing a button. An experienced developer myself I know this to be at the very least highly optimistic. However I would really love to know that it is too difficult to do rather than untried. May I also softly hint that MacOS users comprise about a third of the market (I could find the source but that would be pedantic even for me) and that as MacOS has switched to ARM64/aarch64 it might be prudent to release a version for the mac and linux users on ARM? I know that I at least have not bought a copy yet as it doesn't run on my personal computer. Perhaps this is true for a significant number of people.
It was intended as a perfect-world highly optimistic statement, yes. I expect it to take much longer, far longer. Like, once I get a setup I'm expecting it to take... well, longer than is reasonable. It could[/b] be a button press, but probably won't be, I get that, don't you worry.
But simulating actual geologic history between plates would be, like, a whole program to itself. Like Universe Sandbox but for a single planet.
There are good workarounds for everything but the 5 f's I believe: faith, family, friends, Food and... romance.
There are good workarounds for everything but the 5 f's I believe: faith, family, friends, Food and... romance.
Pretty sure food is solved. They'll accept high quality meals in place of preferred ingredients. (Units that don't need to eat are still an issue.)
There are good workarounds for everything but the 5 f's I believe: faith, family, friends, Food and... romance.
Pretty sure food is solved. They'll accept high quality meals in place of preferred ingredients. (Units that don't need to eat are still an issue.)
Oh marvelous. I look forward to enjoying that fix soon as the linux port is done.
There are good workarounds for everything but the 5 f's I believe: faith, family, friends, Food and... romance.
Pretty sure food is solved. They'll accept high quality meals in place of preferred ingredients. (Units that don't need to eat are still an issue.)
Oh marvelous. I look forward to enjoying that fix soon as the linux port is done.
It’s already in 0.47.05, in case that’s what your using.
Just to be clear, dwarfs will search out food that they prefer in a certain radius from where they are when they decide to eat (I believe it's 140 tiles in all directions). They will also prioritize meals with their preferred food over raw ingredients of their preferred food. I've tested this a lot on bot 0.47.05 and 0.50.None of that is actually working. They simply ignore any preferred ingredients in cooked meal. I made a topic about it some time ago:
I don't think they *always* select meals over uncooked ingredients if it is not a preferred food. I occasionally get dwarfs eating lettuce leafs instead of meals. However, I don't personally consider this a problem. It's the only way you can get seeds for garden vegetables, for example. I have not determined what rules their choice here because it does not seem to be proximity to the food (I always assumed that a dwarf will eat the closest food if there is no preferred food, but that doesn't seem to fit my observations). Honestly, I would like it to be a little more clear what the considerations are so I could game it a bit (gotta have that lettuce!). Also, if I'm wishing, I'd love it if animals were fed from food that was closest to the animal, not the food that is closest to the dwarf feeding the animal. I could have stockpiles of alfalfa next to my restrained goats and always feed them with it. It would be wonderful! But I digress :-)
About the Steam release of Adv Mode - I wonder if the intention is "just" to do graphics and fix the many UIs, and then release it with pretty much the gameplay of the pre-Steam version - or if the goal is to streamline it some more before release by filling out some the "holes" in the gameplay - such as the impossibility of geting clothes and armor for very large/small animal people?Not meant as an answer, but you can make the stuff in a fortress and have your adventurer visit to pick up his change of clothes.
Right now you would normally go about raiding necromancer towers to get books with secrets, but if certain artifact furniture, like a bed adds twenty years to the life expectancy of anyone that sleeps in it, thats going to be much easier to manage than a bunch of anxious booze-deprived necromancers.
About the Steam release of Adv Mode - I wonder if the intention is "just" to do graphics and fix the many UIs, and then release it with pretty much the gameplay of the pre-Steam version - or if the goal is to streamline it some more before release by filling out some the "holes" in the gameplay - such as the impossibility of geting clothes and armor for very large/small animal people?Not meant as an answer, but you can make the stuff in a fortress and have your adventurer visit to pick up his change of clothes.
The one thing about economy in adventure mode is that money is currently just broken and it wasn't always that way. I forget exactly when it got broken, but there was a time that you could sell items for coins, buy things with coins and everything would work the way you expect. It would be nice to fix it at least to the point of being able to use coins freely for everything.
There are also weird rules about stealing things and what it means for something to be stolen. If I remember correctly, it *does* affect your reputation (though your reputation isn't really used for very much at the moment). Making that kind of stuff more visible and also making it operate in a way that seems logical would be nice.
The one thing about economy in adventure mode is that money is currently just broken and it wasn't always that way. I forget exactly when it got broken, but there was a time that you could sell items for coins, buy things with coins and everything would work the way you expect. It would be nice to fix it at least to the point of being able to use coins freely for everything.
There are also weird rules about stealing things and what it means for something to be stolen. If I remember correctly, it *does* affect your reputation (though your reputation isn't really used for very much at the moment). Making that kind of stuff more visible and also making it operate in a way that seems logical would be nice.
Finally, because I play with "thou shalt not steal" house rules, I tend to barter for armor and weapons that soldiers are wearing (giving them the bounty of my bone carvings). I kind of feel like it would be nice if soldiers wouldn't be quite so accommodating though (walking around naked holding 42 badly carved bone carvings after meeting me). It would also be nice if the "value" of goods was a bit more random. I once RP'd a silk trader, buying silk at one side of the map and selling it at the other. But I could only barter for essentially the exact same value each time, so there was no sense of profit. Just useless activity. Even if it were random, it would be a lot more fun.
I should make my way to the suggestions thread :-) But anyway, I think the point that there are some pretty small tweaks to adventure mode that would make a big improvement is well taken.
The one thing about economy in adventure mode is that money is currently just broken and it wasn't always that way. I forget exactly when it got broken, but there was a time that you could sell items for coins, buy things with coins and everything would work the way you expect. It would be nice to fix it at least to the point of being able to use coins freely for everything.
There are also weird rules about stealing things and what it means for something to be stolen. If I remember correctly, it *does* affect your reputation (though your reputation isn't really used for very much at the moment). Making that kind of stuff more visible and also making it operate in a way that seems logical would be nice.
Finally, because I play with "thou shalt not steal" house rules, I tend to barter for armor and weapons that soldiers are wearing (giving them the bounty of my bone carvings). I kind of feel like it would be nice if soldiers wouldn't be quite so accommodating though (walking around naked holding 42 badly carved bone carvings after meeting me). It would also be nice if the "value" of goods was a bit more random. I once RP'd a silk trader, buying silk at one side of the map and selling it at the other. But I could only barter for essentially the exact same value each time, so there was no sense of profit. Just useless activity. Even if it were random, it would be a lot more fun.
I should make my way to the suggestions thread :-) But anyway, I think the point that there are some pretty small tweaks to adventure mode that would make a big improvement is well taken.
I thought that it worked just fine, at least last time I played adventure mode. Sure, there were annoyances involving needing the specific local currency and that would make carrying around gems a lot more useful than carrying around cash, but I do recall being able to buy and sell at shops just fine. I think the last time I tried adventure mode was the last pre-Steam release, too.
I've been playing around with the civ screen for the first time, and ran across something I wondered about:
Is there a particular reason that you can only occupy already occupied locations?
There are a bunch of empty forts around, but I can only attempt to conquer the nearby mountain home.
Hi Tarn! Hope you're doing well.
Do you plan on messing with forgotten beasts' behavior for the villains update pt. 2? It would be cool to have scheming monsters trying to turn your fortress into a cult or something.
I've been playing around with the civ screen for the first time, and ran across something I wondered about:
Is there a particular reason that you can only occupy already occupied locations?
There are a bunch of empty forts around, but I can only attempt to conquer the nearby mountain home.
I've been playing around with the civ screen for the first time, and ran across something I wondered about:FTFY.
Is there a particular reason that you can only occupy already occupied locations?
There are a bunch of empty forts around, but I can only attempt to conquer the nearby mountain home.
Quote from: crazy_old_fishermanAt the risk of adding to a chorus, is there any update on MacOS versions. I've seen written by Putnam that it 'could be' as simple as pressing a button. An experienced developer myself I know this to be at the very least highly optimistic. However I would really love to know that it is too difficult to do rather than untried. May I also softly hint that MacOS users comprise about a third of the market (I could find the source but that would be pedantic even for me) and that as MacOS has switched to ARM64/aarch64 it might be prudent to release a version for the mac and linux users on ARM? I know that I at least have not bought a copy yet as it doesn't run on my personal computer. Perhaps this is true for a significant number of people.Quote from: kipwheelerI'm in the same boat as crazy_old_fisherman. I really want to try this game on my Mac, but I don't want to muck around with wineskin. Any updates on MacOS versions would be much appreciated. Does Putnam have access to a Mac yet to mess around with for that port?
@Threetoe: What was/is the intended pronunciation of the diacritics in Dwarven, and the other relevant languages, if possible?
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I was wondering what the odds are that saves from the current version will be compatible with the future adventure mode release?
You mentioned the color-matching of cave floors to their stone types being distracting, and that got me thinking: what's up with rock layer generation?
I know in earlier versions of DF (40d?) that the rock generation - or at least the metal generation - used to be different. From a geological standpoint, the generation today is quite strange, with giant ovals of different rock stacking over each other like the biggest layer cake on earth, from the circus to the surface. With every map tile, you basically know what you'll always get: a base square of layer stone, a giant oval of a different layer stone in the middle, and zero to several ores zigging through it.
Why is it done this way? Is this rock gen a holdover from the 23a days or such? Any plans to model, like, igneous intrusion, plate tectonics, stratified rocks, with the rock-tiles themselves in-game? Do geologists ever send you letters?
Is there any plans to tighten up the needs system and make dwarfs a little better at satisfying their own needs if given the opportunity. There are good workarounds for everything but the 5 f's I believe: faith, family, friends, Food and... romance.
1. Will new quest system be the only feature we will get for adventure mode or there will be something soon in near future?
2. I heard there will be new starting scenarios one day and i thought that probably pretty big thing to add, so i wanted to ask if it will affect adventure mode as well, except that we will be able to find them in world and interact with npcs there? And will new scanerios be similar to fortress scenario or will it they give new mechanics or change them in any way? Will there be scenarios that you didn't mention or the list that we know is probably all scenarios that we will have?
3. After you add adventue mode will our worlds be able to work with it?
I. Will we see a more fleshed-out and gradual development process with extra intermediate youth stages in the future (i.e., toddlers --> kids --> adolescents --> adults)? It is quite odd for a dwarf to play make-believe with their toy boat one day and be recruited into the army the next.
II. If not, are there plans to alter either time progression or aging speed in order to balance out the fact that it takes 18 whole years for a resident to mature, making it harder to have fort-born babies grow up to adulthood, resulting in multi-generational fortresses being even less feasible now?
About the Steam release of Adv Mode - I wonder if the intention is "just" to do graphics and fix the many UIs, and then release it with pretty much the gameplay of the pre-Steam version - or if the goal is to streamline it some more before release by filling out some the "holes" in the gameplay - such as the impossibility of geting clothes and armor for very large/small animal people?
Will myth and magic include an achievable source of perpetual longevity? My fortresses in older versions evenually loose 10 dwarves every year to old age. It's kind of heartbreaking. I understand that death is to be accepted in dwarf fortress, but it should not be a third of a fortress for no reason, causing the player to abandon their history.
G'day Tarn. I vaguely seem to recall there being a 'smell' sense in adventure mode, and I was wondering if it applied in fortress mode.
Dogs are mentioned to have ...a keen sense of smell, but they look like they lack the SMELL_TRIGGER token. Is it important?
Are dogs in any way better at spotting sneaky intruders than any other animal? The wiki mentioned that hunting dogs have an improved observer skill, though it didn't seem to find it when I looked.
Do you plan on messing with forgotten beasts' behavior for the villains update pt. 2? It would be cool to have scheming monsters trying to turn your fortress into a cult or something.
I wonder if you could give us a quick "near term" summary of the things you plan on working on for the next 2 months or so? Not asking for any predictions of what will get done, just a plan like we used to get in the DevLogs of what you'd like to work on!
Is there a particular reason that you can only occupy already occupied locations?
I was inspecting the images on an artifact my dwarf had created and thought:
Will we see coherent multi-scene images across engravings or other depictions in the myth update, similar to how coherent, story like events will be used to construct a mythology?
I get that systems like this are planned to enter the game eventually. Really, I thought of asking the question as the myth system seemed like it could be multipurpose in that way, although admittedly, I understand very little about how any of these systems would work.
I imagine something like repeated use of particular icons, or after mentioning a list of various independent images a concluding statement that the scene depicts a particular site or event.
has the team considered the logistics for additional sprite overlays on artifact items, such that more of their materials / adornments are rendered
Thanks for the replies, sir. I’m sorry for your loss and I hope that you get over your illness.
I personally haven’t played DF for months now. The main reasons are that I only have a machine running Linux and I’ve never used Steam before so I’m concerned that, if I were to get the Steam version, I’d have to download and install the Windows version on a machine running MS Windows and get that running before I could either switch to running it under Linux using Wine or switch over to the beta branch and use the native Linux version. Also, I can’t run the older pre-Steam versions because the Linux distribution that I’m on now doesn’t provide libraries for versions of SDL prior to SDL2 (and the maintainers have said that Hell will freeze over before that ever happens…). I’ve tried installing Wine and running the Classic versions, but all that happens is that DF crashes on startup. I’m really looking forward to there being native Linux support on the main branch. Hopefully then I can start playing DF again!
For personal/ideological reasons I don't want to have a Steam account, so I'm waiting for the Linux version to be released on itch.io.
For personal/ideological reasons I don't want to have a Steam account, so I'm waiting for the Linux version to be released on itch.io.
As a person who hasn’t used Steam before and therefore isn’t really familiar with them, I’ve got to ask: why, specifically, would I not want to use Steam?
why, specifically, would I not want to use Steam?
The other thing to consider is that even with an itch.io purchase, it's likely that activating the Steam key results in Steam getting a small amount of money (likely in the $5 range if my information is correct). So if you want to avoid giving money to Steam, then best to stay away from it.
Hello, Tarn! Glad to see you're doing well.
Will the army update include formation movements for militia/soldiers? Do you plan on generalizing such a feature to include more group behavior, e.g. families hanging out together, friends going in groups to the tavern etc?
Hi there,
is releasing the source code of 0.47.* some day a possibility to preserve the history of DF and all the community art work, mods and add-ons made for it?
A somewhat restrictive license could protect the current day economics of DF.
Thank you for this game and kind regards.
Hi there,
is releasing the source code of 0.47.* some day a possibility to preserve the history of DF and all the community art work, mods and add-ons made for it?
A somewhat restrictive license could protect the current day economics of DF.
Thank you for this game and kind regards.
For all foreseeable plans i imagine Toady could have, the DFFD still exists as does hosting every version new and old on the website, as well as the. ver.50 and 47. are only as detached as the code and summary changes required to get the steam version in its present state. There are other DFlike titles that have been achieved without DF source code, such as Rimworld, 'Gnomoria' and 'Towns' (a blast from the past on those last two)
About the DFFD mod/save/asset hosting site specifically and its database, things happened and many files were orphaned and profiles gone (including my own). Its not possible to completely secure a 100% of publically accessible content all of the time without human error, and having the source code or not wouldn't really cover all bases, as there have been technical issues too in Tarn and Zach's efforts to develop the game on more than one occasion.
Lime green for questions please.
Sure, but I don't think it overcomes the core problem. Things plopped in infinite wildernesses aren't related to each other, without a lot of extra effort, and are never going to have the same richness of history in their spaces.
Not particularly, no.Sure, but I don't think it overcomes the core problem. Things plopped in infinite wildernesses aren't related to each other, without a lot of extra effort, and are never going to have the same richness of history in their spaces.
With the new introduction of A.I. would it be possible to implement an A.I. into the program which would help these things relate to each other?
Not particularly, no.Sure, but I don't think it overcomes the core problem. Things plopped in infinite wildernesses aren't related to each other, without a lot of extra effort, and are never going to have the same richness of history in their spaces.
With the new introduction of A.I. would it be possible to implement an A.I. into the program which would help these things relate to each other?
Problem isn't the detail, it's the "why". Why do these people worship this particular thing? Why does the magic work this way? You can generate neat textual descriptions through AI if you want so that it just makes up random stuff, but it'd be completely disconnected from any other system of the game. What good is a mechanism to plop down neat textual descriptions of civilizations if it can't also churn out a history of them and their relation to the rest of the world?
No, because those narratives would need to intersect with an arbitrary number of other narratives. You need each narrative to be aware of each other narrative at the outset.Problem isn't the detail, it's the "why". Why do these people worship this particular thing? Why does the magic work this way? You can generate neat textual descriptions through AI if you want so that it just makes up random stuff, but it'd be completely disconnected from any other system of the game. What good is a mechanism to plop down neat textual descriptions of civilizations if it can't also churn out a history of them and their relation to the rest of the world?
I see. Would it be possible to manually create a number of keywords and then use the A.I. to form an historical narrative based off the keywords and based off the already existing world generating information? That way it could theoretically create a history for random stuff placed in an arbitrarily infinite expanse that wont contradict anything taking place in the rest of the world.
Any chance we will get to see other export options back in the steam game anytime soon? Like the option to export historical figures or terrain info. Currently we can only export main xml file but that's only like, only a part of everything. A lot of people are still waiting for full functionality as it was in the pre-steam version.
Will the army update include formation movements for militia/soldiers? Do you plan on generalizing such a feature to include more group behavior, e.g. families hanging out together, friends going in groups to the tavern etc?
What's the current status on bringing back square tilesets to the ASCII graphics mode, or other tileset resolutions beyond the standard vertical rectangle?
Hopefully the "gnarliness" to be fixed in adv mode includes experiments and other procgen things having semi-blank appearance data and other shenanigans in chargen, right? Also not intended, I guess, was being bounced back to 'choose your character' as though everything else were covered in gum and superglue, when all you wanted was, say, a change of the character's civilization?
is releasing the source code of 0.47.* some day a possibility to preserve the history of DF and all the community art work, mods and add-ons made for it? Specifically this could live on as an Bay12 "overseen" community project, that aims at fixing at least some bugs and performance issues as well as maintaining modern systems compatibility.
A somewhat restrictive license could protect the current day economics of DF.
Quote from: Toady OneSure, but I don't think it overcomes the core problem. Things plopped in infinite wildernesses aren't related to each other, without a lot of extra effort, and are never going to have the same richness of history in their spaces.
With the new introduction of A.I. would it be possible to implement an A.I. into the program which would help these things relate to each other?
To be honest a truly infinite world with infinite numbers of relevant entities with elaborate, comingling histories would probably not be that fun to actually interact with. Too many things to keep up with; at one point you'd just end up overwhelmed.
To the extent there are 'planes' as in 'planar realms' on the roadmap, I think there's plenty of opportunity to reach outside the world zone or create lasting impacts like you can do by whittling monsters down until you reach mundanity, or on the more extreme magical/antimagical side of things either release or entrap and banish magic from the world in a lasting impact for future forts, but its probably going to be a finite thing for a long while.
Toady One: "Same goes for translation/localization if we can ever figure that out."
QuoteToady One: "Same goes for translation/localization if we can ever figure that out."
Why don't you make a toolkit for translators? By the way, translations for the game already exist, for example, into Russian (DFRus community). But the translation is just terrible, huge chunks of the game have not been translated, or translated poorly. Also exists problem with game`s code. At the same time, one of the obvious problems is that when a new version of the game is released, for example, 50.11 translation for the previous version does not work. It needs to be additionally adapted a little for new versions. Yes, it's fast, but it's inconvenient to bother with it every time.
also understand that even translating into 6-7 languages will take both a lot of money and a lot of time, besides, Adventure Mode and Steam achievements are now your priority. In general, if there were normal tools, the translations would be done by fans. From a practical point of view, it is also convenient that later this translation could be officially implemented into the game (and why not?). It seems to do so, for example, with Cataclysm: DDA. Of course, the games are different in terms of text volume, but that game, it seems to me, despite the fact that it is less popular in general, has a translation into 17 languages! https://docs.cataclysmdda.org/TRANSLATING.html (https://docs.cataclysmdda.org/TRANSLATING.html)
I think, with a convenient toolkit, I would do the translation myself
I would really like to know how difficult it is to bring this to life. Thanks!
How much procedural construction of paragraphs does Cataclysm DDA actually do? Is there anything akin to the musical form constructions? Or even the artifacts? Let alone Mythgen...
Not sure what part of that is meant to be directed at Toady, but around here, we change the colours of whatever sentence or paragraph, using the dropdown list if we have to, to lime green to facilitate it, thanks very much.
QuoteToady One: "Same goes for translation/localization if we can ever figure that out."
Why don't you make a toolkit for translators?
That's correct (only applies to this monthly Q&A thread - but chances are he won't see anything posted anywhere else except in the suggestions forum.).Not sure what part of that is meant to be directed at Toady, but around here, we change the colours of whatever sentence or paragraph, using the dropdown list if we have to, to lime green to facilitate it, thanks very much.
Did I understand correctly that if I want to address something directly to ToadyOne, then I should highlight my text in lime green? It's just that I'm new to the forum and haven't really sat on it before, I'll be glad of any such information. Thanks!
Hello, Tarn! Hope you're doing well.
How do you feel with the end of UI work finally on the horizon? Do you plan on taking a well-deserved vacation after it's done?
Thanks for the answers as always Toady. And thanks for the update. Those faces look incredible, even if they're still just prototypes. I also love the icon that is the singing turtle person. Hopefully that makes it to release.
1) Since getting a look at someone based on their clothing and description is coming up before the villains release, is there any chance of wanted posters with the last known description of famous villains rendered on them in a similar style?
2) Will someone with face obscuring garb still have their eyes/nose/scars/blue skin/full suite of intellectual values/etc visible at a glance in their description in adventure mode once villains are finished? Or fort mode for that matter?
3) Have you ever played Shadows of Doubt, the proc gen detective game?
Turbans and different kinds of head clothes are some of the clothing I'm most excited to see rendered in DF. Dwarves also seem to love wearing them, nearly as much as underwear.
4) Will dwarven civilizations ever have a chance to be generated with different styles of clothes like human cultures are?
Does the latest devlog mean we're getting palettized forgotten beasts, and other procgen creatures, next update?
Why don't you make a toolkit for translators?
So, we know that spheres will influence world gen significantly more by that point, but how will spheres like 'Revenge' or 'Rumors' or 'Lust' or 'Fame' work in that regard? They don't seem all that geography-y to me, at least without another sphere to ground it.
and, for that matter -
What of the combinations? Let us say I have a God of Fame, Rumors, Trees, and The Rain. Two of these (trees and the rain) seem to be the core of our theoretical godly biome, but how would the others effect it?
Similarly, currently, we get things like necromancers and demons corrupting the land using their spheres as the baseline, and I understand that with future worldgen (and magic), we will likely have various wizards and gods being able to do that with any sphere, but -
What if we had a area that was already tainted or blessed by someone else? How would a blessing and a curse placed upon a land interact? (or two blessings... or two curses?)
Within the overhaul of the Adventurer character creator, will we be seeing embark profiles like in fortress mode?
Likewise, would it be possible to make custom labor details something similar that could be moved between forts/worlds/installs, etc?
How were the statistics for the weapons determined? I can figure out how weights would be calculated, but I don't know what sort of formulas or educated guesses were used for the attack types.
How do you feel with the end of UI work finally on the horizon? Do you plan on taking a well-deserved vacation after it's done?
Do you have a good idea of what and how to implement the map rewrite, or are you going to make it up as you go when you get to it? By this, I mean the mathematical systems for generating geographical features, procedurally modifying them, storing data and recalling information. Have you got the math ready to implement, or are you expecting a protracted period of creative experimentation?
A lot of people don't realise that stuff doesn't always 'exist' in procedurally generated worlds until the user looks at it, to create the illusion of permanancy. But, how much is 'permanent' in DF (at least geographically) and how much is generated on demand? If you know what I mean. Will this change with the rewrite? It's my understanding that world Gen will receive more procedural layers (tectonics, layer folding, falling god corpses etc.) and also allow for more dynamic features (icebergs, floating island etc.)
Will it not be difficult to stitch existing systems that interact with geography into the new map system? For example, plopping cities onto terrain? Or have you thought of that?
In terms of the game's atmosphere, I remember reading somewhere that the effect of waves on the oceans are still in the works for the new graphics. From that, I'm curious: Are there plans to display bloodstains on walls as well? It's a really cool detail in the ASCII mode that I hope eventually makes it to the new graphics, among any other graphical features that may still be missing.
1. Will portraits in the steam version adventure mode get updated to show wounds/scars if the player or a NPC gets a head injury and survives?
2. Will the advanced attack menu still be in the steam version of adventure mode? If the players figure out how to use it, they gain a much tighter control over how their character fights in past versions of adventure mode.
Has that issue with invisible critters being un-findable and un-targetable been tackled? If it is solved, how do you intend to implement the hide interaction in the future? Invisibility until close range, dependent on observation, or a few ticks in ambush/sneak mode with positive rolls?
Question: Do you think DF will see a law-making feature? I imagine it would make for an interesting gameplay element to stray from your original civilization culture (for better or worse) and deal with the consequences. Maybe the lawmaking branch (Baron etc.) could get ousted for making unpopular laws like rationing or banning science.
Any chance of procgen prepared meals, similar to how procgen instruments are currently implemented?
While my 4x llama tallow roasts are... interesting... it'd be cool to see what recipes the world itself has come up with.
Quote from: delphonsoWithin the overhaul of the Adventurer character creator, will we be seeing embark profiles like in fortress mode?
Likewise, would it be possible to make custom labor details something similar that could be moved between forts/worlds/installs, etc?
It'd make sense to have those since it's a time consuming process to pull together a character, though you run into the same trouble of not having the same items available every time, and it might be worse here depending on how the clothing is stored/handled.
Definitely appreciate the desire to be able to import labor details (and work orders etc.), there's a lot of redundant work when you've played several forts. We're generally going to keep the fort updates coming (better archers still #1 if I recall), and we'll be addressing stuff/feedback as we go.
we can focus our objectives on making a farm and living peacefully on it, until the goblins allow us, spending our days fishing to sell the fish in the nearest city. Or, for example, be a merchant seeking his fortune to settle in a big city and have a life of luxury there?
Any chance of procgen prepared meals, similar to how procgen instruments are currently implemented?
How do you keep motivation, working mainly alone, for years and years, on a nearly unique project ?
my brain exploded recently when i discovered there were no above-ground mushrooms in the world of dwarf fortress. how did things end up this way? would the dwarves reign supreme in every version of history with access to such a resource? do you have a favorite real-world mushroom type? Thank you
I know this may sound a little strange, but I would like to know if your idea of an adventure mode will also be focused on people who prefer a more peaceful game mode? By this I mean if, for example, we can focus our objectives on making a farm and living peacefully on it, until the goblins allow us, spending our days fishing to sell the fish in the nearest city. Or, for example, be a merchant seeking his fortune to settle in a big city and have a life of luxury there? Or maybe set up a tavern in a city and work so that others can get drunk?... Will there be a possibility in the future of something like that? Would the ultimate idea of the game be to create a truly living world where we can truly do anything we want?
And another question that may have already been asked before, will it ever be possible in the vanilla game to play with other races in fortress mode?
1)why canI nobles with some sort of SUCCESSION not be appointed to a position that is a SQUAD-holding? Like baron and monarch that cannot be militia commander?
2) Is there any way that an unit holding a site-level position can succeed a civ-level position? It is possible in world-gen, but it seems not to be in fortress-mode.
Honey bees do not possess the vermin_micro tag, and consequently do not spawn in swarms. In spite of this, unused sprite graphics remain in the premium raws, which depict swarms of the remote_colony honey bee worker caste.
-- What kind of buzzing nightmares did you originally have in mind for our dwarves? And are there any plans to have us to experience these horrible nightmares at some point in the future?
In older versions of the game in adventure mode it was a terrible slowfest near goblin towers. What are you going to do to fix this, will you reduce the maximum population in goblin fortresses?
Other races is a possibility, yeah, but not a priority.
There was talk of the myth and magic update, having a randomness and magicalness modifier in advanced worldgen, whereupon if one or both of these settings is turned up high enough the world will be generated with random, possibly magical species in place of some or all of the vanilla races, including dwarves. So if that gets implemented, either those worlds will have playable procedurally-genned races or be adventure mode only.
we can focus our objectives on making a farm and living peacefully on it, until the goblins allow us, spending our days fishing to sell the fish in the nearest city. Or, for example, be a merchant seeking his fortune to settle in a big city and have a life of luxury there?
Tarn and Zack actually answer this question in the latest interview with Blind https://youtu.be/a77Oj8UQmsw?si=jJ7H7k190pvNBz4f (Sorry I don't have a time index for you). If I remember correctly, he said that it was something he'd like to do, but it won't be for a long time. There *are* things you can do now, though. For example, you can wander the world performing. You can buy and sell stuff (well, barter... although, it's basically impossible to make a profit). You can make bone carvings and trade them. I often play peacefully, but there isn't much fun in staying in one place. Really it's geared for "adventure", whether that adventure is simply traveling around and learning about the world, or fighting stuff. Farm sim stuff, etc are unlikely to be prioritised. You can kind of play that way in Fortress mode, though.
Quote from: kaijyuuAny chance of procgen prepared meals, similar to how procgen instruments are currently implemented?
Bumber: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8510314#msg8510314
Yeah, as Bumber says, we had a whole plan for this, at the same time as procedural tavern dice/board/card type games, but those things got pushed off into the nebulous future.Quote from: InariusHow do you keep motivation, working mainly alone, for years and years, on a nearly unique project ?
I think having such a variety of things to work on helps a lot. It'd be harder for me if I were, say, balancing and tightening (or doing UI stuff...) continuously. The resultant lack of focus and refinement also leads to some of the problems with the project most likely, but it's not gonna be perfect. We also used side projects for this purpose - breaks into completely different genres etc. are good.Quote from: rynomy brain exploded recently when i discovered there were no above-ground mushrooms in the world of dwarf fortress. how did things end up this way? would the dwarves reign supreme in every version of history with access to such a resource? do you have a favorite real-world mushroom type? Thank you
I recently grew some golden oyster mushrooms from a little kit. That was fun! It is weird that there are no aboveground mushrooms, especially since we ended up adding so many real world crops over time. I'm not sure if I didn't imagine them in gardens rather than purely being foraged? That could be the reason, since I was working on little gardens and plots when the new crops came in.Quote from: elantoI know this may sound a little strange, but I would like to know if your idea of an adventure mode will also be focused on people who prefer a more peaceful game mode? By this I mean if, for example, we can focus our objectives on making a farm and living peacefully on it, until the goblins allow us, spending our days fishing to sell the fish in the nearest city. Or, for example, be a merchant seeking his fortune to settle in a big city and have a life of luxury there? Or maybe set up a tavern in a city and work so that others can get drunk?... Will there be a possibility in the future of something like that? Would the ultimate idea of the game be to create a truly living world where we can truly do anything we want?
And another question that may have already been asked before, will it ever be possible in the vanilla game to play with other races in fortress mode?
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8512440#msg8512440
mikekchar: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8512478#msg8512478
Yeah, it's really just a matter of work. Every idea you suggested requires not peace but a robust economy, for instance, which is something we've been vaguely aiming at but have failed to attain a few times. Other ideas of peaceful play styles require a more robust social sim. These are things we're interested in. Combat has always been easier, but it's not the only stuff we work on.
I think the reply addressed the other races question - gonna give it a shot with myth magic stuff. The game is geared a bit toward dwarfiness perhaps, and dwarfiness has given us certain leeway narratively, but we're not too too far from having aboveground/etc./etc. stuff working out. You do have a lot less play space that way. Spreading out to a much wider shallower play area, as you'd have in the NPC human villages, is a technical problem.Quote from: joostheger1)why canI nobles with some sort of SUCCESSION not be appointed to a position that is a SQUAD-holding? Like baron and monarch that cannot be militia commander?
2) Is there any way that an unit holding a site-level position can succeed a civ-level position? It is possible in world-gen, but it seems not to be in fortress-mode.
1) Is that the specific constraint? I don't remember if there was some annoying thing about squad assignment upon succession, maybe. But the monarch shouldn't be manager either.
2) Hmm, I'm not sure how it picks among all the site position holders? I don't think we have a syntax for that, or code to hold some kind of selection/election among the candidates. Whatever is going on in world-gen is probably glitchy or arbitrary. As usual, we don't support a lot outside of the default cases (and I'm not sure what the world-gen case is here.) This may be particularly true with entity stuff, where various backing code/simulation for situations is necessary.Quote from: dikbutdagrateHoney bees do not possess the vermin_micro tag, and consequently do not spawn in swarms. In spite of this, unused sprite graphics remain in the premium raws, which depict swarms of the remote_colony honey bee worker caste.
-- What kind of buzzing nightmares did you originally have in mind for our dwarves? And are there any plans to have us to experience these horrible nightmares at some point in the future?
Ha ha there's no particular plan, but bees do swarm in real life and it seemed prudent to be prepared.Quote from: The Lawnmower ManIn older versions of the game in adventure mode it was a terrible slowfest near goblin towers. What are you going to do to fix this, will you reduce the maximum population in goblin fortresses?
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8514572#msg8514572
We're going to look at it, but I don't want to suggest a solution - I've often been wrong about profiling issues, and Putnam has managed some pretty amazing gains in fort mode already. Ultimately if we have to change the populations, or how they are distributed, we'll have to go there, though that has knock-on effects, like making sieges less frequent etc., so we need to be cautious.
I have a question that might be considered controversial.
So my question is, was this ever a feature that civs would intially have similar asestetic genetic traits? Or was this all head cannon created by coinsidences? If so why was it changed? [col.+]
So my question is, was this ever a feature that civs would intially have similar asestetic genetic traits? Or was this all head cannon created by coinsidences? If so why was it changed?
Acearl : I copy your question, and put it in lime so Toady sees it and can reply.
Will you add graphics raws to the Classic version so implementing custom graphics packs that are compatible both with premium and Classic will be easier? I'm talking about the TXT files in vanilla*_graphics that are present in premium but not in classic, not the art itself.
Will you add graphics raws to the Classic version so implementing custom graphics packs that are compatible both with premium and Classic will be easier? I'm talking about the TXT files in vanilla*_graphics that are present in premium but not in classic, not the art itself.
Looks like the graphics raws define which image file and where in the image the sprite is located, as well as which creatures have multi-tile graphics. Shipping those raws means the image files have to be named and arranged in the exact way as Premium, which isn't particularly desirable when those files don't exist in Classic. (That probably causes errors for any improperly-sized or missing files, doesn't it? And if you provide images with blank tiles, you get invisible creatures rather than some kind of warning or placeholder.)
The tileset maker should instead define their own graphics raws based on the images they're providing. That will overwrite the default whether it's Classic (undefined) or Premium, correct?
I'm fine with naming images the same as Premium (in fact I prefer it so it then works both on Classic and Premium), and having empty images wouldn't be a problem since Classic defaults to using the ASCII renderer anyways, so the invisible graphics won't be rendered anyway, the ASCII stuff will.
I'll probably make an "invisible" graphics set which just uses official TXT files, but uses transparent tilesets. This should mean that everything will work, but that you won't be able to see anything.
Actually, why not use something non-transparent at that point, like the industry-standard hideous black and magenta checkerboard?
I'm fine with naming images the same as Premium (in fact I prefer it so it then works both on Classic and Premium), and having empty images wouldn't be a problem since Classic defaults to using the ASCII renderer anyways, so the invisible graphics won't be rendered anyway, the ASCII stuff will.
If you're just overwriting images without providing custom raws, that's not really going to work with a partial tileset. The partial tileset needs some raws to say it's only replacing some cows rather than all domestic animals (with invisible squares.) So it's probably not a huge leap do the same and provide (a copy of the vanilla) raws for a complete tileset rather than rely on the vanilla raws being present. Now consider that the vanilla raws can be updated. There's potential problems that can occur if you're relying on the current vanilla raws to accurately describe your tileset, rather than the old raws of your tileset's last update. I can see that updating a complete tileset's raws might be some additional hassle, but you're going to need to know how those changes impact the images anyway.
Anyway, it seems somewhat pointless to include them in Classic if doing so merely shifts the problem. Providing just the raws isn't sufficient to avoid errors. Does Bay12 add a bunch of blank images to the Classic download just to stop those? Providing a minimalist tileset beyond that is probably against contract. Seems like it's up to the community to create one, which might as well be the thing that includes the raws. (You can assume that people using Classic have this installed if you really don't want to include raws with a Premium+Classic tileset.)
I guess one could argue that the vanilla graphics raws should be there as examples, without needing to look at the wiki.I'll probably make an "invisible" graphics set which just uses official TXT files, but uses transparent tilesets. This should mean that everything will work, but that you won't be able to see anything.
Actually, why not use something non-transparent at that point, like the industry-standard hideous black and magenta checkerboard? (Solid color works too, I suppose.)
the new sprites clearly has legs.
Has working on Premium Adventure Mode allowed you to make any progress towards restoring the keyboard cursor in Fortress Mode?There's already a keyboard cursor option that you can enable in fortress mode (I believe as far back as 50.01).
The mining yield is a balancing issue rather than a map issue, and has been addressed once, as mentioned by Eric Blank.
The map rewrite may well change the vein/cluster/... logic, in particular to generate a 3D connection (so several levels build up a body or ore, rather than the current logic where each Z level is generated independently of the other levels within the same layer. Such a change would probably result in in more tiles of ore for the kinds that are selected, but fewer kinds would likely be generated (basically larger but fewer bodies of ore, potentially resulting in about the same number of ore tiles in total)). This might potentially result in a balancing change.
<snip/>
The map rewrite may well change the vein/cluster/... logic, in particular to generate a 3D connection (so several levels build up a body or ore, rather than the current logic where each Z level is generated independently of the other levels within the same layer.
<snip/>
I don't really see what gameplay value 3D veins in particular would add to Dwarf Fortress besides confusing people who don't realize that the veins are 3D.Well, the purpose of the DFHack plugin was to make veins more "realistic" for those who want that. Real-life veins generally aren't flat.
I don't see the point of realism for the sake of realism if it doesn't serve a gameplay function.I don't really see what gameplay value 3D veins in particular would add to Dwarf Fortress besides confusing people who don't realize that the veins are 3D.Well, the purpose of the DFHack plugin was to make veins more "realistic" for those who want that. Real-life veins generally aren't flat.
Quote from: Eric BlankHow was thanksgiving for you Toady?
did you get any cool christmas presents?Quote from: A_Curious_CatLutefisk?
So my question is, was this ever a feature that civs would intially have similar asestetic genetic traits? Or was this all head cannon created by coinsidences? If so why was it changed?
Will the upcoming procedural portraits be applied to other humanoid creatures besides the playable races (such as semi-megabeasts)?
Will you add graphics raws to the Classic version so implementing custom graphics packs that are compatible both with premium and Classic will be easier? I'm talking about the TXT files in vanilla*_graphics that are present in premium but not in classic, not the art itself.
Will the attire represented in the portraits enable distinction of units based on things like the social standing, culture, etc?
Will weapons / shield also be shown in the portrait?
Do you think that generated mythologies would be as extensive as current world generation history? (i.e, spanning hundreds to thousands of events and characters)
Do ettins have two personalities / souls?
Did the hippo man wrestler in the trailer organically accept to come with, or was there some manipulation behind the scenes? I tend to have trouble recruiting in my adventure games.
Quote from: PillboWill portraits work with non standard races? For example experiments, angels, gorlaks etc?
How will the portrait system work with modded creatures?
Will there be a way to add/modify the sprite layers used to build the faces?
If none are provided will there be some kind of stand in?Quote from: A_Curious_CatWill it be possible for modders to mod in their own custom procedurally generated portaits (for example, for a modded in race)?
What are the plans to add baby graphics for dwarves and other layered creatures? Is that on the backburner due to the level of effort?
I noticed it mentions you can click on a tile to open a context menu for that tile, but does that option also exist on keyboard, like the way the 'l' and 'k' keys do in the currently released adv mode? Thats a pretty important functionality for keyboard-only support i figure
Are the armor variations seen in the most recent devpost based on item quality?
The walrus man is described as "A legless person with the head and back flippers of a walrus" and has the tag ANIMAL_PERSON_LEGLESS, but in the new sprites clearly has legs. It's the same with the elephant seal man (but not the leopard seal man or harp seal man...). The snail man is kind of the opposite, it should have legs but it's sprite shows it as legless.
Are the animal people going to be updated to match their sprites or is that just not an important detail to you?
Has working on Premium Adventure Mode allowed you to make any progress towards restoring the keyboard cursor in Fortress Mode?
Any recent programming discoveries/new approaches since Putnam joined?
Has there been any movement towards automating game tests before releases?
I remember in an interview earlier this year that you said you may sneak in small additions related to future content as you continue the updates at hand. Is there any chance next year after adventure mode comes out, we get another magical side activity like the divination dice?
When you get to the map rewrite, how far do you intend to go to change the current system of mining? Right now a large number of tiles cleared do not drop stone. This practically annoying when you mine an ore vein and see a large number of tiles not drop ore. This seems like a quick fix for something you intent to overhaul later.
I could see a couple dwarves mining and another dwarf loading a mine cart and taking the unwanted rubble out of the mine. We already have mine carts!!! We already have dumping zones too. You might have to tweak how quantum stockpiling works, but it could be done. Quantum stockpiling also seems like a quick fix that will be overhauled later.
Quote from: voliolAre the armor variations seen in the most recent devpost based on item quality?
There are item quality sets, as well as random variations for a lot of clothing. I'd prefer to also get those linked to fashion-type terms in text, but I haven't done that so they'll be random for now (variant + item quality.)
Annie made us cool hoodies in the style of those pig hoodies I wear, with the pigs in a grid, but with the dwarf face in place of pigs.
Does this mean that the portraits shown will change variations every time they're displayed (at least until they're linked to fashion-item terms)?
Yeah, the Adv mode stuff isn't directly related (despite me working to have keyboard enabled there), but Putnam's already got some keyboard stuff working in Fort mode on some additional menus. It's already in progress.- Does this mean we can fully remap the sub-menus? Like right now adding a hotkey for building a door requires a custom graphic corresponding to said keys.
I would suspect the support for the parameter definition hasn't been removed as I don't see any immediate reason for why it would be affected, but I don't know.I'm guessing these parameters are how PerfectWorldDF (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57428.0) does its thing, which does work with v50+.
Any chance we will have key shortcuts such as "q", "+" and "-" back to fortress mode in the premium version?
Thank you!
How hard would it be to make the motion graphics of DF more smooth, interpolating the movement of creature sprites between squares instead of jumping discreetly from one position to the next? Rimworld style, basically.
The only really reasonable way to do it is to do a lerp of the sprite's position offset between their current and target destinations based on how far they are into their movement, which, yeah, doable, but might result in really weird visuals, snapbacks and things.
Will this feature - the font aspect ratio driving the display aspect ratio - be making a comeback?It still does that in ASCII mode -- use a square set and you get square tiles -- but how would that even work in graphics mode? What would you expect to happen to the graphics tiles, would they get squished or stretched?
Will there ever be a rework of how alcohol is brewed, which is currently really simplistic and kinda boring for a game about alcohol addicted dwarves?Pardon me, slight mistake there - questions for Toady need to be coloured in Lime Green, there should be a drop down list 'change color' when editing.
Perhaps procedurally generated, culturally unique recipes?
He is somehow unable to see all other green colors.Will there ever be a rework of how alcohol is brewed, which is currently really simplistic and kinda boring for a game about alcohol addicted dwarves?Pardon me, slight mistake there - questions for Toady need to be coloured in Lime Green, there should be a drop down list 'change color' when editing.
Perhaps procedurally generated, culturally unique recipes?
1. Will peasant characters be able to join temple organizations to get bonuses when interacting with related deities? If so, what would the temple faction expect from the peasant character in return?
2. Will the spheres of a demigod character's divine parent matter in determining their special powers?
3. Since property rights are being overhauled, does this mean we can no longer walk into a random warehouse and start stealing goods with no consequences?
4. Will hamlets get a new provider for food for adventurers, since they don't have markets or inns? I assume the property rights update will stop us from stealing food from random people's houses with no consequences.
5. Previously characters could talk to their deity and get no response, with the myth and magic stuff coming will there now actually be some form of response to talking to a character's deity?
So with the demi-god being converted into tutorial mode is there like an option to have the old demi-god settings? So that future runs aren't just stuck to the two lesser point pool options or risk dealing with the tutorial again?
the force tutorialization stuff kinda threw a monkey wrench in my common demi-god adv runs a bit
that said I wonder what this means for multiple adv party members if one of them is a demi-god? Does that lead to the Tori the goddess of Tutor popping in to explain a feature if a player tabs over to the demi-god?
gonna pop in to say as an old player, the hearthperson stuff was just added because folks wanted traditional quests and the 'not actually quests' but telling you events that happen in the world 'ask for troubles' stuff had made many new players confused in the past, it just that the quests the lords gave out were also the ones that demand a bit more game mastery than the 'kill 7 rats' gamer assumptions so not many folks were not able to complete them.So with the demi-god being converted into tutorial mode is there like an option to have the old demi-god settings? So that future runs aren't just stuck to the two lesser point pool options or risk dealing with the tutorial again?
the force tutorialization stuff kinda threw a monkey wrench in my common demi-god adv runs a bit
that said I wonder what this means for multiple adv party members if one of them is a demi-god? Does that lead to the Tori the goddess of Tutor popping in to explain a feature if a player tabs over to the demi-god?
I think the changes to demigods are going to be more like you're the hearthperson to a deity who you can talk to any time, and they will send you on quests with minor and medium blessings as rewards (could probably reuse divination blessings.) I think that playing a hearthperson was the intended experience for new players in older editions, so it would make sense to make the demigod changes work like that. Probably when you open a UI element there will be a tutorial popup explaining what it does like in fort mode, for all three difficulties.
I'm also curious if there's an official answer to this, what they are in the current version of the game. Otherwise it should be expunged upon when Myth & Magic drops for real. Are these giant animals monstrosities created by a force of chaos, only similar to normal animals as a mockery of their form? Are they normal animals warped by the magic surging in the lands? Or are they escapees from the platonic realm of beasts? Etc. etc... I imagine that will depend on their procedurally generated past in mythgen.
Sorry to hear that 50.12 is delayed, but why do the links to the report and FoTF in the 1/30 devlog point to the ones from last month?
Does this mean that the portraits shown will change variations every time they're displayed (at least until they're linked to fashion-item terms)?
Quote from: meAnnie made us cool hoodies in the style of those pig hoodies I wear, with the pigs in a grid, but with the dwarf face in place of pigs.
Pics?
- Why is the number of custom labor groups limited and with numbers instead of icons?
- Are there plans to allow editing the default labor groups?
- Have you ever considered adding a world painter for precision embarks? (trying to spawn good & evil tiles adjacent is incredibly difficult)
- Do you know if Adventure Mode will be backwards compatible with existing worlds?Quote from: meYeah, the Adv mode stuff isn't directly related (despite me working to have keyboard enabled there), but Putnam's already got some keyboard stuff working in Fort mode on some additional menus. It's already in progress.- Does this mean we can fully remap the sub-menus? Like right now adding a hotkey for building a door requires a custom graphic corresponding to said keys.
Is saving in adventurer mode gonna gain the same options as in fort mode? Such as to save and continue playing or save to a new timeline.
Do you think there's any current features that might not make the initial adventurer mode release? Like the camp building mentioned on Blind's steam.
Are the controls also going to be designed around WASD?
Any chance we will have key shortcuts such as "q", "+" and "-" back to fortress mode in the premium version?
How hard would it be to make the motion graphics of DF more smooth, interpolating the movement of creature sprites between squares instead of jumping discreetly from one position to the next? Rimworld style, basically.
Before the premium version, we could change which font to use for the ASCII graphics by changing the font name in the FONT tag in init.txt. In addition to changing the images used for the ASCII graphics, this would also cause map cells to be rendered with the aspect ratio of the font.
In the premium version, changing the font in the FONT tag still changes the images used for ASCII graphics, but the aspect ratio for map cells remains the same as that of the default font.
Will this feature - the font aspect ratio driving the display aspect ratio - be making a comeback?
Regarding the recent Steam announcement: will demigod players be able to select which deity is their divine parent, during character creation? Also, assuming that “demigod” here is used to refer to the child of a deity and a non-deity, will they also be assigned a non-deity parent?
Also, what about elves? Will they no longer be able to be demigods (or will it be possible for a “force” to be a demigod parent)?
Getting a chunk of myth stuff is super exciting, however finalized it turns out it, it really is a sign we're entering a new era of feature development, beyond the different kind of goodieness that graphics and reworked UI has and will continue to be.
Tutorialization through deity sounds really fun, though I wonder:
1. In worlds without deities, or civilizations without, how will the demigod tutorial work? Will some other being take that tutor position? Or will it be impossible to play an atheist demigod?
2. Will demigods from goblins/dark fortress civs get guidance from the deified civ leader? Will megabeast-followers get it from their patron roc or dragon? What if this physical deity dies?
1. Will the graphics layering system be expanded or made more powerful? For instance, will more conditions for quality like in portraits, or will conditions for other layers existing/not existing be added to the regular, small-scale sprites?
2. Will a rework of the combat system, or at least the information displayed, be done at any point soon? A lot of things are somewhat confusing, like how "squareness" affects armor penetration and damage, what the chances of penetration and dismemberment are to begin with, how much skill affects things like dodging, parrying, chance to hit, etc. I think that clarity is more important than actual changes, especially considering the newer players.
If a (very basic and incomplete) framework of the Myth & Magic system is coming with the Adventure update, does this mean the Big Wait might not be so big after all (at least, not counting the Big Wait we've already had waiting for the Big Wait)?
So with the demi-god being converted into tutorial mode is there like an option to have the old demi-god settings? So that future runs aren't just stuck to the two lesser point pool options or risk dealing with the tutorial again?
the force tutorialization stuff kinda threw a monkey wrench in my common demi-god adv runs a bit
that said I wonder what this means for multiple adv party members if one of them is a demi-god? Does that lead to the Tori the goddess of Tutor popping in to explain a feature if a player tabs over to the demi-god?
Will there ever be a rework of how alcohol is brewed, which is currently really simplistic and kinda boring for a game about alcohol addicted dwarves?
Perhaps procedurally generated, culturally unique recipes?
Is an overhaul planned for other older parts as well?
1. Will peasant characters be able to join temple organizations to get bonuses when interacting with related deities? If so, what would the temple faction expect from the peasant character in return?
2. Will the spheres of a demigod character's divine parent matter in determining their special powers?
3. Since property rights are being overhauled does this mean we can no longer walk into a random warehouse and start stealing goods with no consequences?
4. Will hamlets get a new provider for food for adventurers since they don't have markets or inns? I assume the property rights update will stop us from stealing food from random people's houses with no consequences.
5. Previously characters could talk to their deity and get no response, with the myth and magic stuff coming will there now actually be some form of response to talking to a character's deity?
Hello Toady and thanks for this wonderful game. I have been wondering if there was any word on a Mac release for the Steam version?
Quote from: rynoi have a question about the giant creatures of dorf fortress. Is it the case that they are very straight forwardly giant versions of real ones, or is it more like they are fantastical beings that are simply nicknamed after real ones due to their closest approximated similarities? Are the giant creatures considered to be genetically related to the normal ones? I understand that for their sprites they are simply scaled up versions of the base creature set, but I believe this is in order to save time above all else, and that it's possible that the canonical nature of giant creatures is not so 1:1, but can you clarify?Quote from: voliolI'm also curious if there's an official answer to this, what they are in the current version of the game. Otherwise it should be expanded upon when Myth & Magic drops for real. Are these giant animals monstrosities created by a force of chaos, only similar to normal animals as a mockery of their form? Are they normal animals warped by the magic surging in the lands? Or are they escapees from the platonic realm of beasts? Etc. etc... I imagine that will depend on their procedurally generated past in mythgen.
Sorry to hear that 50.12 is delayed, but why do the links to the report and FoTF in the 1/30 devlog point to the ones from last month?
Will there be non-player demigod characters? Like, will they show up in legends as just the children of whatever god and influence the world?
[color=limegreen]Will there be non-player demigod characters? Like, will they show up in legends as just the children of whatever god and influence the world?[/color]
=>@FrankVill no he is not wrong. He just forgot to link the previous (January) FotF & report, and did it on the 30th.
I'd say it depends on: How much are the other controls changing and are any of the current ones are merging?Quote from: ZiusudraAre the controls also going to be designed around WASD?
There's diagonal movement so I'm not attempting WASD alone. I'm not sure what the keyboard option is for people without numberpads - eating up the QWEASDZCX cluster (or equivalent) is really expensive in terms of lost keys that we want for non-movement options. People can rebind of course, but I'd like a decent default option and am open to suggestions. I'm currently just using numberpad and/or mouse.
Ah shoot, just missed him.
Hey Toady! I assume by the time you read this the bug tracker will be fixed; but in future, who should we contact/how should we let somebody know when the bug tracker is broken?
It's out of temp space
Welcome to the forums edwahjr!
In this thread we use lime green text to ask our questions to Toady. Like this:Code: [Select][color=limegreen]Will there be non-player demigod characters? Like, will they show up in legends as just the children of whatever god and influence the world?[/color]
=>
Will there be non-player demigod characters? Like, will they show up in legends as just the children of whatever god and influence the world?
Ah shoot, just missed him.
Hey Toady! I assume by the time you read this the bug tracker will be fixed; but in future, who should we contact/how should we let somebody know when the bug tracker is broken?
It's out of temp space & preventing any new bug reports
Hello! Im very excited for the map rewrite and was wondering what sort of plans there are to expand the surface level in fort mode. I understand when you embark you can change the grid size but currently you have to load all Z levels below the surface. Has there been any thoughts to having 2 embark selections? One for surface and one for the underground? I can envision having a 25x25 surface fortress sprawling with hamlets, houses and temples while having a 3x3 underground area to mine out and explore. Would love to hear your thoughts! Thank you!!
Quote from: elantoI know this may sound a little strange, but I would like to know if your idea of an adventure mode will also be focused on people who prefer a more peaceful game mode? By this I mean if, for example, we can focus our objectives on making a farm and living peacefully on it, until the goblins allow us, spending our days fishing to sell the fish in the nearest city. Or, for example, be a merchant seeking his fortune to settle in a big city and have a life of luxury there? Or maybe set up a tavern in a city and work so that others can get drunk?... Will there be a possibility in the future of something like that? Would the ultimate idea of the game be to create a truly living world where we can truly do anything we want?
And another question that may have already been asked before, will it ever be possible in the vanilla game to play with other races in fortress mode?
Eric Blank: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8512440#msg8512440
mikekchar: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg8512478#msg8512478
Yeah, it's really just a matter of work. Every idea you suggested requires not peace but a robust economy, for instance, which is something we've been vaguely aiming at but have failed to attain a few times. Other ideas of peaceful play styles require a more robust social sim. These are things we're interested in. Combat has always been easier, but it's not the only stuff we work on.
I think the reply addressed the other races question - gonna give it a shot with myth magic stuff. The game is geared a bit toward dwarfiness perhaps, and dwarfiness has given us certain leeway narratively, but we're not too too far from having aboveground/etc./etc. stuff working out. You do have a lot less play space that way. Spreading out to a much wider shallower play area, as you'd have in the NPC human villages, is a technical problem.
Quote from: therahedwigWith the map rewrite, were you also planning to make it easy for sites to dynamically resize? Like, for example, Dwarves digging down greedily, but also perhaps surface towns expanding.
I thought it might help a lot with situations where the player's fort map is slowing down because 250 cave horses are trying to path through the third cave, and I wasn't sure whether to expect that from the rewrite.
PatrikLundell: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7937076#msg7937076
therahedwig (op): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169696.msg7937090#msg7937090
Yeah, as you say in your second post, it'll give us way more control over the "loaded pillar" so that the third cave just isn't loaded until you get down there, if that's what you mean about the cave horses. And there should be lots of other ramifications about how sites grow, overlap and are shaped generally. That's always been one of the oddest things about adv mode especially -- as you walk around, it has the underworld and all three cave layers loaded, which is just weird and wasteful (but necessary the way things are now.)
The new fluids invalidated most of the old code. Have water stop you when you jump into it so you don't go all the way down into the bottom is linked to density sink/float stuff, which I haven't done yet. I'm not sure what I'll get to. It'll either be done or get Req'd.
Hello, Toady, have you come up with any new monsters or creatures randomly as you've been working on the adventure mode stuff? Also thanks for making such an amazing game
By "randomly" do you mean more procedurally-generated creatures? Because randomizing more creatures has definitely been one of the things Toady's talked a lot about in regards to Myth & Magic, but I personally doubt such elements will make it into the first adventure mode release on top of everything else that needs to be done (not for me to say, of course).
So what is the deal with buoyancy and why hasn't it been included yet? If it is a technical issue what are the major problems? Is it going to wait for boats?
Will caste requirements for different jobs/positions be introduced to civilizations at some point? This could have a lot of potential for modding, specifically. For instance, an insectoid civilization which has worker miners and soldier soldiers, or an amazonian kingdom which only allows females into the military and positions of power. I know this wouldn't be top priority, but is it on the easier side of things, or is it relegated to the "far future," if at all planned?
Will caste requirements for different jobs/positions be introduced to civilizations at some point? This could have a lot of potential for modding, specifically. For instance, an insectoid civilization which has worker miners and soldier soldiers, or an amazonian kingdom which only allows females into the military and positions of power. I know this wouldn't be top priority, but is it on the easier side of things, or is it relegated to the "far future," if at all planned?
For positions of leadership, there's [GENDER], [ALLOWED_CLASS] and [ALLOWED_CREATURE], which should be effective for purposes of caste restriction. Restricting professions can be essentially hacked in on the creature level (by nerfing those skill gains to the ground), but there's no similar tokens to divide labor on a societal level. Could be very interesting to see where modding tools and generated cultures go.
1. In addition to healing potions will there be any other types of potions?
2. Years ago, ThreeToe's storys hinted as magical corruption being a possibility in the myth and magic arc, will that be coming in the new small updates format?
3. Will the player adventurer in the coming updates possibly gain paths to having more magical abilities like the necromancers and undead lieutenants have?
4. In some generated worlds will it be possible for the player to invoke a deity's powers by talking to them if they are in their favor enough? Possibility with the risk of incurring their wrath and getting cursed?
5. Will new divine curses be on the table for the coming updates?
6. When will the new forum be set up? I am of the understanding this may be one of the last future of the fortress question responses this site has.
snip
2. Years ago, ThreeToe's storys hinted as magical corruption being a possibility in the myth and magic arc, will that be coming in the new small updates format?
3. Will the player adventurer in the coming updates possibly gain paths to having more magical abilities like the necromancers and undead lieutenants have?
4. In some generated worlds will it be possible for the player to invoke a deity's powers by talking to them if they are in their favor enough? Possibility with the risk of incurring their wrath and getting cursed?
5. Will new divine curses be on the table for the coming updates?
6. When will the new forum be set up? I am of the understanding this may be one of the last future of the fortress question responses this site has.
3. You can already raise companions up as intelligent undead by seizing the secrets of life and death for yourself, and control them in your party in ver 47.05's tactical swapping mode, i imagine this transfers over to 50. naturally. More powers relies on their implementation, and whether its a role that you could possibly attain (like being the head of a monastary, hypothetically getting some boon from that) but i don't think anything's been explicity said on that front since.
2. Its been a long time since the stories, but from a general compilation of Toady's replies i think it could be highly circumstantial to the kind of fantasy worm-man world that is generated per the fantasy setup scaler. You could have a world more akin to DnD where you are simply tired and need some time to pass/run out of mana or the like or like you say, more hard consequences like the tree-lady where your life and freedom is on the line. That's my impression anyway.
4. Again a little bit of abstraction between the magic arc and the adventure arc which aren't to my knowledge riding inside the same carriage from their long journey across the big wait. Though you can already pray in 47.05's adventure mode and invoke the wrath of the god by testing their patience at the dice atop of shrines.
5. New would imply 'more', but toady has expressed a interest of curbing the turtling via placing curses before in FotF, so you might be in luck getting a reply if the brothers have cooked up any new ways to punish the player.
6. Like silverwing id like to know if this is has a source. It would be a pity because a lot of history resides here including important milestones of folly (the most infamous events of DF, shaping its development history like the infamous mermaid farm) and fort design secrets and science, as well as DFFD mod-page urls. The steam forums serve as a adequate but its not quite as orderly or technical, being very new.
@eerr : I think not. Because in most roguelike game, there is a "goal", and numeric representation are here to tell you how much of this you've done.
Here, there is no goal. So how to measure anything ?
The only thing you can measure is your skill evolution.
Asking more technical rather than game content related questions:
1. Given the recent tooling changes around how you build DF (eg version control, multiple branches) what do you think has changed in the way you think about development thanks to this new tooling? What has it enabled in your mind that you previously thought might be too difficult to tackle?
2. Follow up on the tooling, what other interesting tools or patterns have you considered or looked into? what about unit tests? fuzz testing? c++20 concepts?
It's good to hear that the some keyboard controls will come back in the future. I've been playing 50.12 classic and I miss the keyboard controls. I liked viewing workshops with q, designating with keyboard, and k (I think) to view tiles and units.So I'm dipping back into DF, and haven't been able to parse a clear answer to this out of the previous FotF replies:
What is the state of keyboard control in DF and what plans are there for it going forward?
Here's the latest from Toady. You can read a little bit before this quote in this thread for some context (if you've already read this, sorry haha!).Keyboard stuff: There was some confusion over in the linked suggestions thread above and elsewhere about hotkeys etc., and generally I should clarify the different pieces of keyboard support and where we are at:
For hotkeys, I'll have to move some of them, since I can't assume we have a numberpad and wasd has to camp out over on the left side of the keyboard forever, but hotkeys for opening and using menus seems pretty easy to support. We do have to show them to the player somehow. Tooltips are one typical way, and there could be some layer that draws them under buttons as well (I guess some games have done, like, holding 'alt' for this kind of thing.)
For designations, I think the wasd+mouse combination can handle some things that people aren't giving it credit for (long tunnels etc.), and camera keys also work for doing up/down staircases. But we've listened to the feedback here, and a cursor mode is easy to support, since most of the code is sitting around for it and we already have cursor graphics. We just have to make sure new people don't get stuck in there.
For menu navigation, missing the numberpad and our old (sometimes inconsistent and annoying) methods of scrolling put us in a bind in some cases. Focus and button use etc. probably can't be the same between the various menus, because they are quite different from each other. Though I think, as with the Classic display and adventure mode, the main issue here is time. I see the pathway through for Classic/adventure stuff though, so it's easy to commit to doing those in as timely a fashion as possible after launch if that's the way we go. With a few of the menus, I'm not sure how much work it'd take.
We read through all of the comments and take them seriously, even the negative ones - there's no need to be rude or assume the worst. We're going to try to address issues and we think things are going to turn out well, but everything just takes time.
Don't expect it immediately and don't expect it to be as comprehensive as it was. Those of us who cared dropped the ball because Toady didn't think anyone did.
[snip]
2. More specifically, one of these goals mention the posibility for the live adventurer to have a wife, children and play our heir after death or retirement. It would leed to some amazing stories ! Is this feature still planed ?
Will there be non-player demigod characters? Like, will they show up in legends as just the children of whatever god and influence the world?
How much are the other controls changing and are any of the current ones are merging?
Hey Toady! I assume by the time you read this the bug tracker will be fixed; but in future, who should we contact/how should we let somebody know when the bug tracker is broken?
Hello! I watched Blind's recent video on "What to expect from Adventure mode and Magic healing!" and got very interested in the latter part. While at first I was very unsure of implementing a sort of magical healing that could revert otherwise permanent injuries, I started to think about what would be an interesting implementation that could fall in line with the feel of DF, so this got me thinking:
- Is this new way of healing conceptualized like a mage casting a healing spell on an injuried person or more like an alchemist or a traditional healer rubbing a combination of weeds and other materials on the injury?
- Will the new healing method serve as a single multipurpose heal-it-all solution or will there be specific (hopefully randomized for each world!) requirements and quirks for each sort of injury? For example, if you're trying to heal torn ligaments the material/other requirements are somewhat different from if you're trying to heal nerve damage. In this case, will there be different recipes for these different kinds of healing? Will scholars in fortress mode be able to discover these recipes by doing research and discussing with other smartpants who come visit your fort?
- How viable are you planning to make having an adventurer be dedicated to medicine? Would be very cool to have yet another different niche to specialize in the coming adventure mode.
Hello, Toady, have you come up with any new monsters or creatures randomly as you've been working on the adventure mode stuff?
When the biomes become sphere-aligned primarily, instead of being Good/Evil/Wild, what are your thoughts on the "surroundings" descriptor? I.e the one that says "calm", "haunted", "joyous wilds", etc. on the embark screen. Some sphere-alignments, like a land of thunder, don't map clearly to any of the existing descriptions. But at the same time, having descriptions for all spheres, or combinations of spheres, seems like it could be a lot. Both to develop, but also for the player embarking. E.g. if a biome is "rumbling" or "chaotic", how difficult is that?
Will alive demigods influence the name of the age? vampires and necromancers already influence it, along with werebeasts and other creatures.
Hello! Im very excited for the map rewrite and was wondering what sort of plans there are to expand the surface level in fort mode. I understand when you embark you can change the grid size but currently you have to load all Z levels below the surface. Has there been any thoughts to having 2 embark selections? One for surface and one for the underground? I can envision having a 25x25 surface fortress sprawling with hamlets, houses and temples while having a 3x3 underground area to mine out and explore.
1. The portraits look like they're set up to automatically apply the hundred-or-so raw colors for worn items and eyes, but I haven't seen them applied to any previews. Will there be palette support for layered graphics? Any new uses for palettes planned, like doing unit-colored clothing as a palleted graphic?
2. Adventure crafting is minimal without modded reactions, and thus end up running into unexpected limitations. Is it likely we will see any bugfixes for typical reaction pitfalls, like unwearable gloves or stacked/dimensioned reagents (bone, bars, globs, etc) in the April update?
Will human, elven, and goblin civilizations be given hairstyling options now that we're getting procedural portraits? Also, why don't elf sprites show their facial hair, and goblin sprites don't show their hair or facial hair? I did notice though that the goblin portrait examples showed hair, but not beards. Elves and goblins do have beards, so the sprites should probably show that.
Any plans to make water a continuous requirement for farming (and other crafts)?
Several DF crafts depend - in their real-life counterparts - on having water: farming, brewing, cooking, dyeing, smithing, breeding, and I'm sure I'm missing some.
While df-irrigation is used to create farmable soil, farmers don't water their plants.
Do you plan attempting an in fort market economy again in the foreseeable future?
I was looking into why buoyancy isn't a thing in the game and I haven't been able to find a post from you on the subject since August 2007:QuoteThe new fluids invalidated most of the old code. Have water stop you when you jump into it so you don't go all the way down into the bottom is linked to density sink/float stuff, which I haven't done yet. I'm not sure what I'll get to. It'll either be done or get Req'd.
Other than that I saw lots of people make various comments about buoyancy being too hard, or implying you didn't want to implement it for some reason, but it's kinda hard to tell what is assumption, speculation, or accurate.
So what is the deal with buoyancy and why hasn't it been included yet? If it is a technical issue what are the major problems? Is it going to wait for boats?
Will caste requirements for different jobs/positions be introduced to civilizations at some point? This could have a lot of potential for modding, specifically. For instance, an insectoid civilization which has worker miners and soldier soldiers, or an amazonian kingdom which only allows females into the military and positions of power. I know this wouldn't be top priority, but is it on the easier side of things, or is it relegated to the "far future," if at all planned?
A few days ago I began to imagine what would happen if Dwarf Fortress included the concept of evolution (ancient bones prove that the dwarf descended from the orangutan and things like that). It doesn't seem crazy given that DF aspires to be a very complete world simulator. But I see it as logical that you have not considered it because it is not something that is usually dealt with in the fantasy genre (books, movies...).
Have you ever thought about the possibility of treating evolution? If so, what reasons led you to rule it out?
Are there other similar things that you have considered and definitively ruled out for compelling reasons, such as technical, complexity or time limitations?
I was watching the interview with BlindIRL, and Tarn was talking about “weaponizing the Dew”.
Does that mean that there’s going to be a product placement partnership with PepsiCo?
1. Given the recent tooling changes around how you build DF (eg version control, multiple branches) what do you think has changed in the way you think about development thanks to this new tooling? What has it enabled in your mind that you previously thought might be too difficult to tackle?
2. Follow up on the tooling, what other interesting tools or patterns have you considered or looked into? what about unit tests? fuzz testing? c++20 concepts?
1. When map export function from Legends Mode will be aviable?
2. Will there be updates regarding the NPCs and their social component? For example, I noticed such a thing that characters can serve in the same unit for many years, and still remain strangers to each other. Or, after a battle, the wounded are simply abandoned, and first of all everyone goes to get drunk in a bar. In general, the behavior of the characters in some places is not entirely logical, and I would like to know if you are planning any updates in this regard.
Historically, you've played roguelike games, where your score was tallied at the end of the game.
Would a numeric representation of score fit in adventure mode?
1. In addition to healing potions will there be any other types of potions?
2. Years ago, ThreeToe's storys hinted as magical corruption being a possibility in the myth and magic arc, will that be coming in the new small updates format?
3. Will the player adventurer in the coming updates possibly gain paths to having more magical abilities like the necromancers and undead lieutenants have?
4. In some generated worlds will it be possible for the player to invoke a deity's powers by talking to them if they are in their favor enough? Possibility with the risk of incurring their wrath and getting cursed?
5. Will new divine curses be on the table for the coming updates?
6. When will the new forum be set up? I am of the understanding this may be one of the last future of the fortress question responses this site has.
When it comes to the healing methods you're implementing with the adventure mode release, how varied are they? Like, is it just a difference in ingredients, or are they going to distinguish between ingested/topical potions, and will healing sometimes have negative consequences?
Also, when you referred to 'killing the Big Wait dead,' does that mean updates are gonna be bringing features that would've otherwise been separated into arcs into the game independently of those arcs, or are the arcs still going to be a thing, but we'll see features of those arcs rolled out bit-by-bit?
Finally, will there be an option to auto-generate an adventure mode character?
1. I've been doing some research on the dwarf fortress wiki in preparation for the release and came across a list of power goals. It was very interesting to read, I understand that list is quite old and no longer up to date, but do these power goals still reflect your long-term vision of the game ?
2. More specifically, one of these goals mention the posibility for the live adventurer to have a wife, children and play our heir after death or retirement. It would leed to some amazing stories ! Is this feature still planed ?
Will chopped off limbs have different sprites instead of classic ''flesh and bone'' sprites? Additionally, will we see visible injuries in characters' sprites without looking at the portraits? Seeing missing arms or legs would be cool! And minimal injuries wouldn't be shown at all or shown as a single red dot on the sprite.
Also, When I was looking at creatures on wiki, I saw that Nightwings don't have tails even though dwarves like them for their long tails. I think the error is occured because one and only nightwing drawing has no tail (And apparently they have ''tail'' part in combat menu). Is it gonna be fixed?
About myth and magic update. We know that some myths create cursed races. In one myth, goblins were cursed dwarves because dwarves destroyed some object and the god cursed 1/3 of them and turned them into goblins. So, this changes will be seen in the game too? For example in that world dwarves call goblins ''cursed one'' or various things and goblins blame them etc.
About procedural dragons. Will they come soon or are you waiting for magic system to be implemented to the game? If I remember correctly, procedural dragons were about ''this one will breathe ice, this one breathe fire'' etc. but with the magic system, will they be intelligent, talk and use magic?
If you assign some artifact gear from your fort to adventure mode characters in your military and then return to adventure mode, is there any sort of transfer of ownership?
Will anyone show up to look for it from your fort's civilization in play, or are they cool with it as long as you're bringing glory and death with your indestructible leather pants?
What if you sign up under another leader or found a faction in the wilderness, will anybody come to press that claim for your old citizens?
Is there any different kind of response if the artifact was gifted to the fort vs someone's family heirloom?
For that matter, are there any plans for dwarves whose family artifacts have been traded away to other civilizations to start scheming for their illicit recovery?
Is the current cordial treatment of intelligent-undead and experiments by the living-aligned and red-blooded as intended, or will they begin to be expelled by societies (with particular ethics) in the continuation of villains work?
Is there a difference in how demi-god characters will play / be treated if their patron is the target of a non-reformed or reformed religion? (i.e. with or without organised temples and priests)
Are there no item retrieval missions if a demi-god character is created at year 1 (due to no relics having been yet created in world-gen history), or might there be new collectables?
Can't speak for Toady, but I think i remember him saying crayon drawing would end when Steam Release
Are there plans to implement schisms / civil wars as part of the villains arc? It would make sense that parts of the kingdom may rebel against a usurper. It may also help prevent snowballing in worldgen. It would also be interesting if the different sides had opposing preferences, like blue vs red clothing or cow symbols vs eagle symbols, different religious sects...so the kicker to this the insurrection aspect of world sim/gen does lead to this but I also don't think this prevents snowballing as one sub-faction who made a peace treaty with one faction could get overthrown by another sub-faction who could just go back to conquering the world again, you kinda don't see this in fort mode as you're playing an hive mind controlling a small outpost miles away from the politics and back stabbings, but in adv mode if you ask the local nobles about the political powers and what not they will talk about the different parties vying for control of that civ.
Very excited for Adventure mode to come out. Hoorah! :)
so the kicker to this the insurrection aspect of world sim/gen does lead to this but I also don't think this prevents snowballing as one sub-faction who made a peace treaty with one faction could get overthrown by another sub-faction who could just go back to conquering the world again, you kinda don't see this in fort mode as you're playing an hive mind controlling a small outpost miles away from the politics and back stabbings, but in adv mode if you ask the local nobles about the political powers and what not they will talk about the different parties vying for control of that civ.
so if I remember an insurrection kicks out the ruling group of folks while the inhabitants the population fodder just stay the same, it usually leads to a whole lot of deaths on either side but the main mass of the people under them don't really change. it usually when another civ outside of the internal civ comes invading when folks start bailing and even then that also causes the natural population of inhabitants to just switch alliances.so the kicker to this the insurrection aspect of world sim/gen does lead to this but I also don't think this prevents snowballing as one sub-faction who made a peace treaty with one faction could get overthrown by another sub-faction who could just go back to conquering the world again, you kinda don't see this in fort mode as you're playing an hive mind controlling a small outpost miles away from the politics and back stabbings, but in adv mode if you ask the local nobles about the political powers and what not they will talk about the different parties vying for control of that civ.
I guess there's a difference in my mind between a schism and an insurrection being that the latter doesn't lead to fragmentation of the civilization, it just leads to one sub-faction leading the whole, while the former does lead to the fragmentation of the civilization into multiple new civilizations. I'm mostly curious about the former then, and I think it would prevent snowballing via a fragmentation. Just to clarify.
hmm having now thought about this if premium adv mode is getting a soundtrack is the classic build of adv mode going to stay silent or is there going to be like a toadyone original adv mode classic track for that also?
hmm kinda like toady strumming it a bit more than chiptunes, like lo-fi chiptunes doesn't really gel with the vibes with rest of classic's soundtracks... of 2 songs.hmm having now thought about this if premium adv mode is getting a soundtrack is the classic build of adv mode going to stay silent or is there going to be like a toadyone original adv mode classic track for that also?
To add a suggestion onto this, it might be fun to add lo-fi chiptune versions of the songs to classic. Understandable if that might be too much work.
Oh my god they DO play different sounds!
The sound effects in the soap door folder do not sound like what I'd expect a soap door to sound like at all. But ive never seen a piece of soap big enough to make a door, so...
I'd be more concerned about the BONE door sound effects.
With the upcoming map-rewrite, do you plan to include exclusively subterranean civilizations that might fulfill the roles similar to dark elves or dark dwarves? If so, would these be distinct races, or would they simply be elven and dwarven civilizations whose inhabitants possess malevolent personality traits (like goblins do)?
Can the creature graphics in ASCII mode come back in future versions?
and multi-view?
Any news on the Mac version? 😢
Quote from: Doren IHello Toady and thanks for this wonderful game. I have been wondering if there was any word on a Mac release for the Steam version?No additional word! I'm stuck in adventure land with a deadline. Still need a few computers. Linux being done theoretically means the hardest part is over, hopefully.
Maybe this has come up before, it seems like it has to have, but a cursory search couldn't find it.
Will there ever be modding support for implementing things like firedamp? Blackdamp, whitedamp, etc? "Although, the better question is, whether the current mining mechanic is complete or not?
Firedamp is any flammable gas found in coal mines, typically coalbed methane.
It is particularly found in areas where the coal is bituminous.
The gas accumulates in pockets in the coal and adjacent strata and when they are penetrated the release can trigger explosions.
Historically, if such a pocket was highly pressurized, it was termed a "bag of foulness".
Basically, support for letting gas spawn and then linger. Custom gas evaporates very quickly, which is problematic for certain modding endeavors.
Goody towers lean close to something approaching a natural mining hazard, but obviously they are very much their own thing.
I could understand maybe wanting to shrug off adding in better gas simulation support until way off in the far future. Like, I get that.
Been having a craving recently for adding in some neat puzzles, in terms of the game's mining logistics, and figured I'd ask. Apologies if the future of gas and the core mining gameplay wheel has been addressed in a previous post already.
Thanks again for your time Toad.
Edit: grammar, appended second question
What cues certain music tracks to play in Fortress mode? I know the song “Vile Force of Darkness” plays when a siege arrives, but when, for example, does “Death Spiral” get triggered? Will there be similar cues in adventure?
What is the name of "creature graphics mod support for classic",Can the creature graphics in ASCII mode come back in future versions?
and multi-view?
Creature graphics mod support for classic is already there, so is multiple z-level view if that's what you're referring to.
Would it be possible to consider the return of ASCII creature graphics in future versions?
and the multi-view implemented in ASCII somehow."The simple and clean looks of ASCII with distinct creature graphics"Spoiler: big image (click to show/hide)
What is the name of "creature graphics mod support for classic",
There are, yeah. Including also tunneling and sapping, ladders and siege towers to go over the walls, and siege weapons to destroy them. But it's all a long ways off.figured one way the game already does that was just cause the fps to deplete with the ever growing number of pathfinding checks and invaders just showing up? like what the cavern dwellers do.
I found a neat way to circumvent it and annoy the player into coming outside; interactions that don't require line of sight to target, and thus can apply effects to your dwarves from anywhere on the map as long as the source creature lives! You can make the dwarves slowly go insane or become progressively sicker! Diabolical!
With regards to the new forums, are you planning on just updating bay12forums.com to use https (i.e. https://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php), or are you planning on moving the forums so that they are under bay12games.com (e.g. http://www.bay12games.com/smf/index.php or http://www.bay12games.com/forums/index.php) in order to take advantage of the fact that bay12games.com is already set up to use https? If the latter, Is there anything that'll be done to avoid breaking links on other websites (I know you can just have the main page of the old forums redirect to the new forums, but can the server be set up so that, if someone tries to directly access a specific post on the old forums, it'll automatically redirect them to the same post on the new forums)?
Is Dwarf Fortress officially now just Dwarf Fortress or is it still officially Slaves to Armok God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress, or is the latter just for the free ASCII version?
Will you ever publish any more crayon art? Do you ever bust the crayons out when conceptualising new features, creatures or objects?
Quote from: Rumrusherhmm having now thought about this if premium adv mode is getting a soundtrack is the classic build of adv mode going to stay silent or is there going to be like a toadyone original adv mode classic track for that also?Quote from: LemundeTo add a suggestion onto this, it might be fun to add lo-fi chiptune versions of the songs to classic. Understandable if that might be too much work.
Are there plans to implement schisms / civil wars as part of the villains arc? It would make sense that parts of the kingdom may rebel against a usurper. It may also help prevent snowballing in worldgen. It would also be interesting if the different sides had opposing preferences, like blue vs red clothing or cow symbols vs eagle symbols, different religious sects...
Did you get any nice presents?
Quote from: DPh KrakenThe adventure mode OST is fire (my complements to the chefs), but I checked the raws and didn't find any tokens for it. It looks like the playing logic is hardcoded (due to the dynamic mixing), will we be able to add our own music and sounds to adventure mode eventually?Quote from: Doren IWhat cues certain music tracks to play in Fortress mode? I know the song “Vile Force of Darkness” plays when a siege arrives, but when, for example, does “Death Spiral” get triggered? Will there be similar cues in adventure?
Do doors play different sounds when they're opened in adventure mode, depending on the material the doors are made out of?
Interesting if true. But if the answer to that question is "yes", do "soap doors" specifically have their own sound effect?
And if the answer to that question is also "yes" ... then "why?" And then where did you even get the sound?!
Did you and/or someone else actually try to make a door out of actual soap, just like smooshed together, and then have Three-Toe open it, while Putnam sat and recorded it with a directional mic? Because I'd have mad respect for that.
Would it be possible to consider the return of ASCII creature graphics in future versions?
and the multi-view implemented in ASCII somehow.
Could an option be added to character creation (maybe in a debug section?) to force change the random indexes in graphics files? Talking about 'CONDITION_RANDOM_PART_INDEX', some UI that shows the ID and a number field clamped to go from 1 to whatever the max was set to. It would make creating highly customizable modded races way way nicer, for example I could let players pick a preferred clothing color option, or pick tail color and type, wing color, etc.
I'm a big fan of AD&D's Underdark, and I think Dwarf Fortress does a fantastic job generating cavern layouts and featuring a subterranean ecology that rivals what is described in TSR's books. Currently, subterranean animal people in DF serve a similar role to D&D's Kuo-toa; With the upcoming map-rewrite, do you plan to include exclusively subterranean civilizations that might fulfill the roles similar to dark elves or dark dwarves? If so, would these be distinct races, or would they simply be elven and dwarven civilizations whose inhabitants possess malevolent personality traits (like goblins do)?
I noticed some portraits are inconsistent with the world sprites for dwarves - usually this is seen in hair color. Is it just that shades like "saffron" are yet to get dwarf portraits & will in the future, or is the system intended to work by approximating an array of in-text hair colors to, say, a single off-white?
Any news on the Mac version?
Will there ever be modding support for implementing things like firedamp? Blackdamp, whitedamp, etc?
More to the point, is the mining mechanic in its current iteration "finished"?
Firedamp is any flammable gas found in coal mines, typically coalbed methane.
It is particularly found in areas where the coal is bituminous.
The gas accumulates in pockets in the coal and adjacent strata and when they are penetrated the release can trigger explosions.
Historically, if such a pocket was highly pressurized, it was termed a "bag of foulness".
Basically, support for letting gas spawn and then linger. Custom gas evaporates very quickly, which is problematic for certain modding endeavors.
Goody towers lean close to something approaching a natural mining hazard, but obviously they are very much their own thing.
I could understand maybe wanting to shrug off adding in better gas simulation support until way off in the far future. Like, I get that.
Are there any plans to fully overhaul the small scale layered creature sprites in the future, with the new capabilities that came with procedural portraits? (missing body parts, palletization, etc)
Additionally, I've noticed that NPCs never wear any headwear except for masks and face veils and never wear loincloths or thongs.
This is new since the steam release and I assume it was intentionally added to reduce clutter but it is a bit odd and makes kobolds always have bad thoughts for having no pants.
If this is changed I think kobolds should be given sandals too, to make them not get bad thoughts for having no footwear.
I wonder if it is possible in theory to send a squad of dwarves in a mission outside my fort to demand or raid an enemy village and being able to join them in combat when I un-retire an adventurer or if I create a new adventurer in the target village and help them defend against the squad that is on the way.
I can make the unretire (or creation of new adventurer) simulation progress time at the start to be 1 day with DFHack (as the two weeks always are much more time than the travel time to the site). Even with that, would my squad actually reach the site if I could be there with an adventurer waiting? Or the mission are all abstract math behind the scenes and nothing would "physically" happen If I were there observing?
What about If I leave a squad member behind to be the ruler of the new site... I guess he would be there I would be able to find the dwarf?
1. One thing I noticed from the current version of the adventure mode beta is we don't have progress bars for skills anymore like in the old version. Will those eventually be readded?
2. Since priorities are currently in flux regarding what gets implemented next what are the chances in one of the updates following adventure mode's release this year or next that we will be able to purchase houses/plots of land in towns? It was on the old to do list and it would be a nice variation on the base building that existed in the old version with building our own mead halls.
3. Are towns going to get any new kinds of buildings/features/organizations with the town updates? Previously libraries and guilds halls in towns didn't do much and it would be cool to see them have their own little quest types/if possible be joinable factions like mercenary companies are.
4. Will random edible leaves picked from the ground still be worth a small amount of money in trading? Stuff like lettuce and what not. In early versions you could pay for your inn room with lettuce leaves in a quick pinch.
Ever since the villains release, there has been an event where a villain can send people to corrupt your dwarves to steal an artifact of yours which is great flavour.
But for some reason it seems to be abnormally common. I'm talking hundreds of historical figures "Claiming from afar" in Legends mode almost the instant it is made for me a lot of the time.
This results in the majority of your guests being thieves, which both means you won't get many regular visitors and you'll need to seal away your artifacts 100% of the time (or disallow visitors).
Or, if you want more regular visitors, just get rid of your artifacts.
I'd guess this would be one of the things looked at when Villains is revisited and it's probably just a side effect of it not being finished right?
Are there any plans to make walls and raised bridges destructible by enemies?
It is ridiculous that a single wall tile or a raised bridge can completely neutralize almost any threat from the outside.
The defense of the fortress is now so simple that it is difficult to lose for fun.
Some months ago I noted that the soundtrack DLC on steam only contains low quality mp3 files, whereas the bandcamp release has FLAC files available. The recently released Adventure Mode soundtrack DLC has the opposite problem - it includes the chonky, gigabyte-sized uncompressed WAVs (which I feel is waaaay overkill for a soundtrack release IMO but of course so much better than just MP3s still).
Is there a chance that the original soundtrack will get the WAVs too, or that both of the releases will get FLAC files? I imagine the former would be better, as it would unify the releases, and it's fairly easy for anyone to convert WAVs to FLAC themselves.
I've noticed that during worldgen, there is a huge boom of new sites during the first hundred years or so, after which expansion quiets down, some roads start being made, some crypts/monasteries...
Since worldgen has been made significantly faster now, would it be reasonable to slow down how quickly civilizations expand? I guess I could increase the site cap, but I'd rather have a world that's 500 years and still growing steadily.
Also, one small feature that's been missing since the steam version came out that is really bugging me:
You can't click on gods in the relationship tabs anymore! That's how I found out ages ago that my civ had their own special gods in the first place! Right now it seems like I have to build statues of them or hunt them down in legends mode to find out what appearance they have.
EDIT: Oh and yeah, birthdays of my dorfs! I miss knowing those.
I've noticed that during worldgen, there is a huge boom of new sites during the first hundred years or so, after which expansion quiets down, some roads start being made, some crypts/monasteries...
Since worldgen has been made significantly faster now, would it be reasonable to slow down how quickly civilizations expand? I guess I could increase the site cap, but I'd rather have a world that's 500 years and still growing steadily.
Also, one small feature that's been missing since the steam version came out that is really bugging me:
You can't click on gods in the relationship tabs anymore! That's how I found out ages ago that my civ had their own special gods in the first place! Right now it seems like I have to build statues of them or hunt them down in legends mode to find out what appearance they have.
EDIT: Oh and yeah, birthdays of my dorfs! I miss knowing those.
The unofficial policy around here is, in case you didn't know/forgot: Lime green - like this - when Toady's being questioned directly. (I see some questions here, but...)
Quote from: aSpatula66Are there any plans to fully overhaul the small scale layered creature sprites in the future, with the new capabilities that came with procedural portraits? (missing body parts, palletization, etc)
Additionally, I've noticed that NPCs never wear any headwear except for masks and face veils and never wear loincloths or thongs.
This is new since the steam release and I assume it was intentionally added to reduce clutter but it is a bit odd and makes kobolds always have bad thoughts for having no pants.
If this is changed I think kobolds should be given sandals too, to make them not get bad thoughts for having no footwear.
Yeah, it's on the list, and a lot of the palettized art is already done.
I don't recall a headwear change. The PLAINS entity has all the types there, including the pants ones as well. And dwarves have loincloths listed. Are things not spawning correctly?
Why are migrants restricted to the main species of your civilization?
It sounds like an issue with the game not making it clear how to/it being tedious to make clothing for differently sized species then. Although 3 out of 4 main species have dwarf sized clothing so it would only be an issue with humans and animal people.Why are migrants restricted to the main species of your civilization?
I recall that this was intentional, mainly because different species can have different clothing sizes and that creates some headaches with the present labor system. This does seem like a question of being able to define and label your fort's relationship with the greater world.